Anyone here bought TLR on the switch?

You can probably buy a key somewhere on a third party site.

I played it without knowing this mechanic, did most side quest and never had any problem. The game is balanced around your squad composition more than anthing.

>Game punishes you for grinding
>Realise I autistically seek out every side quest and this behavoir will over level me
Sort off
As long as you make sure to fight more than one enemy per encounter, it shouldn't fuck you too hard

Knowing how you learn more abilities and the special ones like weapon arts/blackout/whiteout is far more important.

What are you doing there nerd? Playing one of those old games again? Fuck you, get over here and lick my tummy

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Truly the Dark Souls of JRPGs

youtube.com/watch?v=V9p40zrpg7c

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Okay but what if the re-release adds the cut sidestory where you get to play as The Emperor?

Is this game really as hard as they say?

The game throws a lot of bullshit at you, particularly any of the optional bosses, but you have the tools you need to deal with it. This is why it is one of my favorite JRPGs; in other games, min-maxing makes things too easy, but here it is practically required.

game is played best on PC for the BR mod
steamcommunity.com/app/23310/discussions/0/2906376154333740815/

Looks like PC chads win again baby

It's really not that difficult so much as it has a bunch of unexplained systems and deliberately hidden mechanics that can fuck you over if you go about it wrong.

Like someone else mentioned, you can do all the side missions as they come, even grind
and be okay as long as you're chaining together a bunch of enemies in fights to get stronger. But if you fight one enemy on the field at a time (meaning very easy battles and high battle performance), your Battle Rank goes up fast while your rewards and stat-ups decrease and you remain weak as fuck. While most enemies get stronger as your BR goes up, at certain points in the game, established fights and boss battles have their strength heavily scaled up by that Rank to the point where it can be unwinnable.

The games don't punish you for grinding, they punish you for being a drooling retard.
Believe it or not, SaGa games require skill and planning even when it comes to grinding, and TLR isn't an exception.
It's a SaGa game, so yeah, it's a lot harder than the average, in the series' context is mid/high in terms of difficulty though.

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How's the replayability? Similar to SaGa? I've had the PC version forever and have yet to play it.

>PC "chads" are so pathetic they have to actively deactivate mechanics to even stand a chance
Getting fucked over by BR, especially in TLR, is frankly embarassing.
>How's the replayability?
Low, unlike the other games there's only one MC and not a lot of meaningful player agency or multiple endings.
There's a few key quests that have different outcomes depending if you win or fail, and if you fail those the final boss will get more moves as a powerup, similarly to RS3 or SF2, the problem is that failing those quests locks you out of other quests, which in turn locks you out a lot of endgame content, which ain't good at all, not to mention you can fight on optional super version of the last boss with the toolset you'd get in the powered up version, which means you have really no incentive to do the "bad route".
Basically, you only replay TLR for the optional hard mode on NG+ and challenge runs, or getting what you missed on your first run.

Ah well. I could probably get some more out of it with challenge runs, then. If I ever get around to it.

>>Realise I autistically seek out every side quest and this behavoir will over level me
false, it's literally a safeguard against grinding endlessly until you can blaze through the game with no challenge whatsoever

I've never been big on JRPGs other than SMT/Persona but TLR appeals to me somehow.

Can I get a quick rundown on it?

How does it punish?

>Controls are laggy as hell
>Loadingu loadingu
it's a shit port

>no replayability
Come on...

Anyway anyone tried this on switch yet? How does it run?

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>Can I get a quick rundown on it?
It's a SaGa game with a SRPG spin on massive turn based army battles with multiple active parties.
A quick rundown is impossible because SaGa games are far too complex for that, but this particular entry is defined by the aforementioned army battles and a control method that have you act as a strategist issuing orders to up to five squads called Unions, said squads will automatically create a set of options based on multiple factors, their squad leaders, their composition, each characters' toolkits or behaviour, their current status, the pacing of the battle and whatever else, it's a rather complex system.

This entry's version of Battle Rank also progressively scales all enemies' stats and abilities unlike other games where you get new enemy batches altogether, just like the other games though, there's BR floor and ceilings that act as "safeguards" so to speak, although the game will still heavily punish you for playing like a retard.
If you don't build up your characters well and consistently challenge yourself by betting on tough odds, the game will kick your ass.
TLR has very little replayability unless it's your first SaGa game, every other entry but SF2 has more replayability.
More replayable than most other JRPGs though, that's for sure.

Battles are a lot more situational, and your options are deliberately limited depending on said situation.
In the beginning, you only have a team of about 3-5 characters in a single Union, but you will quickly scale up and roll with dozens of characters across several Unions.
Each character in the Union has their own stats and abilities, but your commands are issued to the Union as a whole - you get a handful of general commands that are determined by the Morale Level (which tips in both directions depending on tactics and damage, really snowballing things most of the time), your Union position relative to other Unions (and unique states such as Deadlocks, Flanks, Interceptions), the resources of the characters in that Union and the Union's Formation.

It's all very nebulous, complex and deliberately obtuse. It is the kind of thing you need to play with for a long time to see the consistencies that come about based on the current state of the fight.

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To anyone thinking of playing this I'd advise going in fairly blind.
I feel like a lot of systems aren't explained by the game because that's part of the experience.
Looking up min/max guides on your first playthrough will have you doing unfun things like avoiding combat completely for like thge first 10 hours.
Just go have some fun

>I feel like a lot of systems aren't explained by the game because that's part of the experience.
Yep, that's exactly it.
Minmaxing isn't even remotely necessary either way.
Even the White Conqueror can be beaten without wasting 20 hours on worms.

I remember playing until somewhere near the end of the first act. There was this really hard boss and I couldn't beat it. Then after dying dozens of times I was an ultra move suddenly showed up during one of my fights for some reason that I never figured out and I beat it. Then almost right after that another impossible boss showed up and I quit.

Fun game but I feel like I never really understood anything.

I bet it was Also post more OST youtube.com/watch?v=UR6jHPvpazE

It's not punishing you for grinding, it's punishing you for not grinding smart. As long as you chain battles every now and then you'll be fine.

>finally beat that faggot
>it's followed by another boss fight
>ragequit and never play again

youtube.com/watch?v=TOqJj4UX4KU

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Valid, I actually think the niggerfaggot after is harder than gates of hell

It's not harder, it's simply different.
GoH is a battle meant to teach you not to get greedy and learn how to multideadlock a powerful boss efficiently while having a plan B ready in case something goes wrong.
Jaeger+Lob Omen is about crowd control and managing morale in a drawn out fight with lots of enemies, it's simply a different scenario you have to adapt to.

It can be different and harder at the same time.
Gates give you two free turns to deal with trash and a guaranteed tank.
Nigga and his Lob don't give you such leisure, and both can hit really hard. That's why I think it's harder.

Are you literally retarded? The 'remaster' is the same version of LR that has graced the $0.99 section of Steam Sales for many years now...

>switch
Cringe.

This game isn't that good.

Jaeger is mostly harmless unless he has high union morale to pummel your shit, Lob is legitimately dangerous if you make the mistake of putting a large union against it though, a single Palsy Skein can one shot large units easily.
>The 'remaster' is the same version of LR
It isn't, the remaster has various mechanical changes compared to the PC version.

Has anyone played Natural Doctrine? It seems similar, being a difficult SRPG with obtuse mechanics. I could never get into it though.

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Never even heard of it until this post. Looks interesting, though the english voices sound obnoxious in the gameplay videos.

Yeah, but it's pretty different, it's Japanese X-Com more or less and the mechanics aren't really obtuse, not like they're obtuse in TLR either, but still, most of the difficulty comes from chaining up your initiative there.
It's also hardly an SRPG, it's really just a puzzle strategy game, and very short at that, most of the difficulty simply comes from the fact that if anyone dies it's a game over.

youtube.com/watch?v=4XqE5VSFuFM

I fucking love this soundtrack

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Cool waifus, but really shallow story and some of the most autistic mechanics ever seen in a JRPG. Literally unplayable without a guide, hence nobody really talking about it nowadays since there are other JRPG's to play with a much lower barrier of entry.

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I remember I had trouble on him, then I moved some soldiers around between groups and then I beat him first try

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the voices or its particular anime designs, but the gameplay is interesting.

Obtuse isn't the word I wanted to use, but I couldn't think of anything else. Just, different mechanics that have some depth to them, and you're forced to learn and utilize to beat the game.

>the most autistic mechanics ever seen in a JRPG
It's pretty much just babby's first SaGa game.

Does the Switch remaster have good tutorials?

This was only true of the original 360 version, unless you're grinding battles endlessly solely to increase your battle rank in any other version you'll never run into problems

i'm more interested in the new saga games coming to pc than playing this for the 6th time

Because peoples think battle rank=level.

SaGa never dies!

TLR is, like, the definition of obtuse. Close to none of the important information about how you can affect your union compositions and develop your units is told to you in-game, you're expected to either figure it out or look it up.

It's not even like the mechanics are all that complicated once you look under the hood (use skill = get new skills, get skills to certain level = new class) they're just needlessly obfuscated (what the fuck the classes actually DO or how to get specific ones isn't told to you anywhere in-game).

>cool waifus but...
You can't complain about the autistic mechanics with that autistic post user

How much of the obtuseness should I spoil for myself if I'm playing for the first time? I got the PC version ages ago but never got around to playing it.
Is it like Nethack where it's part of the experience?

I've always gotten the impression that you're supposed to just play and your army is supposed to grow how you play, rather than changing how you play in order to grow your army.
Like the system in FF2 is pretty interesting if you just play and let your characters grow as they grow.
But it's autistic if you want to min/max so you end up foing shit like attacking yourself.

I dunno, I can see the complaints though, sometimes you just want to know exactly what something does.

>Close to none of the important information about how you can affect your union compositions and develop your units is told to you in-game
That's because none of the mechanics are complicated and are also super intuitive.
>they're just needlessly obfuscated
They're obfuscated for a very good reason, like most RPGs around.
>Is it like Nethack where it's part of the experience?
It is, the entire series is built deliberately like that, save for the more recent games, the series creator was exactly a fan of Nethack.

Alright, I'll dive in blind and only look shit up if I get stuck.
Any advice on not fucking myself over? I know you're supposed to chain battles or whatever.

I'm a little apprehensive about getting it. While I do want to try it out, I was told it was pretty mediocre. Did they fix the alleged problems that occurred in the game?

>I'll dive in blind
Have fun scouting the whole world after every single step in the main story so that you don't lose any missables.

>game punishes you for playing the game
lmao

TLR are for people that are too scared to take the dive into the SaGa series.

A little while into the game you get the ability to chain enemies on the field and attack more than one in a single battle.
I think the game says as much but you should try to do this for pretty much every fight.
Also if you get steamrolled in a boss encounter. Don't run away and grind.
Using different commands in battle can heavily affect the result so you will probably be able to win if you try a few more times and mix up your strategy.

It's a bad game, doesn't matter waht system its on/

>boot up Infinite Undiscovery
>expect epic mature RPG with deep themes and interesting characters
>get chibi anime babytier action-RPG where main protagonist is a flute player that never used a sword in his life yet can kill all guards in first level
Yeah, nah

People seem to really fucking love it or really fucking hate it.
When it was on steam it was usually worth the £4 to flip the coin and see which kind of person you'd be.
I personally think it's worth a try.

To be honest, I don't know. I think you can get through the game just fine not knowing the specifics, but considering the game's structure of random commands makes it more of a deckbuilder than your average JRPG, not actually having a way of really understanding much of the deckbuilding aspect might put a damper on it. Stat bonuses from formations, where to get particular items for gear upgrades ("where the fuck was that thing I found that one time? shit"), what to do (and not do) if you want a character to be good at something are all shit you almost definitely won't figure out on your own.

Some of the shit is so specific it makes me think they made it like that to sell strategy guides.

>That's because none of the mechanics are complicated and are also super intuitive.
I very, very strongly disagree with this. The surface level shit is easy to understand. The shit that determines character development under the hood is frankly absurd.

Most RPGs obfuscate things either because they want you to figure it out for yourself, or because you don't really need to know and keeping you in the dark makes things interesting. TLR doesn't really fall into either category because you aren't going to figure out most of it on your own since the game's feedback is practically zero ("skills have levels?") and keeping you in the dark just lessens the options you have.

>looking for realism in a JRPG
pls go back to your favorite military shooter

>get shot
>just hide behind this wall for 5 secs and you're good to go
What are you on about, military shooters are pinnacle of make-believe

>Any advice on not fucking myself over?
It's your first experience with the series so you'll inevitably fuck yourself over in some way, the games are simply too much and even a mostly linear entry like TLR still has its many trappings for newbies.
My advice is:

Always talk with NPCs and people around as they'll give you lots of info, most of the actual story and lore is also completely optional so TALK with people before saying the game has no story

ALWAYS save on multiple, separate files, the game does that for a reason, the game doesn't pull any punches and lethality is very high, especially for a beginner, always keep a backup file before major main quest events too.

SPECIALIZE, like all SaGa games, you're given freedom in building your teams however you want, but your decisions HAVE CONSEQUENCES, and characters grow according to how you use them so DO NOT make them use whatever, focus on one or two strong options you want to have for those characters.
Moreover, your unions work according to their composition, so you can't just put random people wherever and hope everything works out.

Take your time to experiment with the system, PAY ATTENTION to what happens in battle and how every character and enemy behaves.

DO NOT GRIND FOR STATS, focus on getting better equipment first and the rest will come naturally, listen to what your characters ask of you too as they'll equip themselves autonomously and ask you for help in that.

ALWAYS challenge yourself, the game gives you massive growth bonuses for fighting tough battles, so chain as much as you can deal with and always fight strong enemies instead of fodder, only fight fodder if you need a specific drop.

DO GUILD QUESTS since they give you money, items and unlock new skills for Rush, formations and item drops for better equipment.

DO CHARACTER QUESTS, all uniques have questlines which give you access to more content in the game.

DON'T JUST DO THE MAIN QUEST, that's like 10% of the game's content.

That is the SaGa series for you, it either clicks for you or it doesn't. It is a VERY polarizing series. Things people complain about are the things other people love about it.

>The shit that determines character development under the hood is frankly absurd.
None of it is absurd, especially not for TLR.
You have an extremely simplified stat system with no real inherent character growth limits.
All characters have determined skillsets they learn on their own, so again, there's no variables to have since they're all set in stone, the complexity comes from handling 18 of them and mixing and matching.
Equipment is once again streamlined immensely due to the need of mixing and matching multiple units, even weapon weight is largely irrelevant compared to previous games and your characters grow regardless of their equipment too, unlike previous games.
Characters LITERALLY ask you how they should behave at regular intervals, which give you an extra option of further bottlenecking their behaviour.
Skill levels are a given through the entire series and it's very, very easy to infer by simple empirical knowledge (You learn more and get powered up versions of commands the more you use them)
The only thing that is hard to understand on your own is the class system, and it's still largely irrelevant outside of expert runs on Hard, on one hand because classes are simply a result of how you build characters and give you bonuses related to the skills YOU use on them or because a lot of characters are already bottlenecked into a straight line, if not coming with an already predefined, locked class like Alan or Wyngale.

Again, there's many reasons why these games withdraw information, like a lot of other games.

you dont get punished for grinding unless you try to fight weak enemies over and over again that wont give you any stat ups for the amount of battle rank they give. Doing the sidequests isnt punished at all

>Again, there's many reasons why these games withdraw information, like a lot of other games.
I've given you a couple reasons why they do, and why those reasons don't apply to TLR. I'd love to hear your take on it.

For the rest, the problem isn't that you don't have choices - the problem is that the feedback on those choices is awful. For example, the "asking how they should behave" you mention - the only thing that does is change what equipment they ask for.

The only reason you've given is pretending nobody is able to figure those things out on their own, which is patently false, not just for this but for any game out there.
People managed to figure out Unlimited SaGa and countless other actually complex and bizzarre games on their own, TLR was the same.
>the problem is that the feedback on those choices is awful
I hope you're not being serious on this, although I fear you are.
>the only thing that does is change what equipment they ask for.
>Character ask you how they should focus on training and give you the option of melee, magic or balance
>Somehow, a character that asks you for physical based equipment after you tell them to focus on melee is unfathomable and a mystery for the ages
Come on dude

Well, you've attacked my position, but still haven't actually told me your own. Come on, man, dig deeper: why are the mechanics made unclear? What's the GOOD thing that does? I want to know your opinion.

And actually, the point I was making is that despite the phrasing of their question making you think otherwise, the question has NOTHING to do with how they behave like you said, it's just to do with the gear they want. A great example of a pointlessly confusing mechanic. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

just pirate

>why are the mechanics made unclear? What's the GOOD thing that does? I want to know your opinion.
I'm not sure why you're even asking, it should be very self evident to anyone who actually plays RPGs.
The entire reason why obfuscation is a thing in ALL videogames (and not just RPGs) is simply because factoring the unknown is a big part of difficulty, especially in RPGs given how they are, at their core, risk management games, the more information you give, the easier the game becomes, it's really simple.
If you want everything in an RPG to be completely transparent, you might as well "play" with excel sheets.
>the question has NOTHING to do with how they behave like you said
Okay, I'll allow you to play around semantics here and pretend that you can say their behaviour in this case is related exclusively to their battle behaviour and not the bigger picture.
Your idea is still wrong because a character that asks you to give them a direction in their training and then modify their wanted list of items according to what you chose for them isn't nebulous or pointless in the slightest, the problem is just the stupidity on your own end to not figure out something so simple and especially self evident by seeing how the items lists changes by simply trying to pick a different option for the same character in another playthrough
>inb4 but who replays games!!11!?

Not that user but I enjoy how the characters feel like their own people and you're just giving them general commands/guidence.
I think it helps put me in rush's shoes.
Then again I'm a sucker for these kinds of things and I enjoyed Persona 3's combat over 4's for this same reason.
I know not everyone is like this.

Depends on how you understand the concept of difficulty. What makes TLR or any other SaGa game difficult is that their mechanics have massive amount of depth and the game is under no obligation to tell you how any of it works. It's up to you to analyze and understand them. If you only go through the main story, even without understanding much of it, I'd say it's no more difficult than any FF game. The side-content however ranges from similarly easy to completely impossible without full understanding of its inner workings and precise efficiency in management of your units.

>newer remaster.
The remaster is just the changes made in the .ini file.

>fairly blind.
Impossible if you are intending of doing the guild missions.

The problem is that the main quest in TLR, or any SaGa game really, makes an incredibly small portion of the game, if you're just blitzing through it the game lasts like 15 hours or so, and the Conqueror is going to be a massive spike in difficulty too at the end, most people got filtered by Gates of Hell playing that way too, and that's just half of the main quest.
That's all optional content though, most of it is easy too, outside of some of the fucking rare hunt missions, which are a mistake.

>which are a mistake.
Yeah, it would be much better if hunts just spawned when you accepted the mission and not re-enter the area 5000 times to see if that fucking thing spawned.

>"Hey guys why isn't anyone talking about this ELEVEN YEAR OLD 7th gen game? A-A-Are you saying people of the outside world played it already? B-But my Nintendo bubble..."

Pathetic.

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I really don't know what they were thinking with that, I don't even know how such a garbage decision got greenlit either.
>Oh hey you got to hunt this Sledgehammer in the catacombs
>But he has like a 1/50 chance to spawn
>And he's two maps away from the entrance
>Oh and get this...his spawn chance conflicts with other 4 rare monsters
>Oh and you know, the more you wait to complete this the more rare spawns are added to the list
>Oh and I forgot, if you wait until the superboss of the area is available the spawn is also completely blocked until you beat the superboss
>Wouldn't it be fun if you also needed this quest for one of our magazines so you can upgrade that weapon you want? Haha.
Literal cancer

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That's about the length of your conventional game, and the difficulty spikes wouldn't be so abrupt. On fights like Gates of Hell you usually get Cyclops. And I speak from experience, TLR was the first SaGa game I've encountered, and I didn't even play many JRPGs before it either, but I've still beaten the story mode and plenty of side-quests on my first go. Of course encounters like The Fallen, or that Emmy's army fight quest utterly obliterated me, but I definitely didn't feel like the main story had any difficulty spikes. Only time I struggles was Namul Niram and only because I've split Rush and Emma into two unions, which only gave it more attacks through multi-deadlock and lowered HP threshold, the moment I combined them into one union I breezed through it as well.

pirate it until it becomes available again, then buy it to support the release of quality vidya like this
this one plays almost exactly like a SaGa game, meaning you can grind but only by killing things worth a shit that will increase your stats. Of course it will punish you if you just kill worthless low level trash like a scrub

Emma is the only thing that matters about this game

>I definitely didn't feel like the main story had any difficulty spikes
That's good for you, problem is, most people didn't feel that way, as this thread already showed.
It's not even particularly hard for a SaGa game, but most people are not used to any of that, and TLR also having a different name is another problem.

whats with all these retards who buy inferior ports of older games at belated prices

you buy the switch for your twink elf and smash. stop buying multiplat games on it

As Octopath shown, Switch is now a bountiful soil for old-school JRPG. Although I do doubt its version will have the flexibility of the PC version. There was so much you could set up and tweak to your preference: languages, controls, critical mechanic, combat speed, prompt speed, prompt layout. I just don't see them going this distance for he Switch. What's worse if they don't, the release of the remaster on PC may be equally limited. And considering they took it off steam the very same day the first news about the remaster being in development hit two years ago, it's safe to say the remaster will be coming to PC.

Nobody is talking about it because those of us who enjoyed it played and beat it back 2008 when it came out on 360. You're 11 years late to the party for a decent but not mind blowingly great RPG.

>on 360

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TLR is far more than decent.

>Literally unplayable without a guide

Stop using wiki for everything you peanut brain, I played this without knowing anything and finished it just fine.

Catacombs were the fucking worst to farm rare mobs in because of the slow gas that had no purpose being there, just a corridor that arbitrarily takes 3x as long to get through.

It's been a while since I played TLR. But I seem to remember there were usually tells of whether the rare has spawned, like a specific combination of trash mobs inhabiting the area.

>the fucking perverted scientist shopping list
Fuck that guy. Entering the same ugly cave thirty times in a row to fetch his shit was the absolute worst part of the game.

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Yeah, there's always tells that point out whether some rare monster has spawned, the problem is
>Most of those tells aren't immediately available so you have to walk around quite a bit sometimes
>Most of those tells are shared between multiple rare spawns, so even if you do see a tell for your target it's not necessarily the one you need
I'd be fine with it if it weren't tied to guild quests that much, RS3 also had the same exact rare monster hunt (except that this time they weren't recolors or rare humans, they're actually unique monsters), but in there it was nothing obligatory for side progression, they did reward you with real good drops for your blacksmith to turn into powerful stuff, but it was just that, a nice extra bonus.

I really dig Rush's character design.
Hell the world of TLR is really cool.
I wish it had sold better so we could get a sequel.

>I really dig Rush's character design.
Eh, I dunno. It's no FF/KH, but he's still a bit too belty-zippy. I agree on the overall world though, the views are great and the remnants have pretty imaginative designs.

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>SaGa games
>Sequels
It sold a million units on steam too, more or less.

>the remnants have pretty imaginative designs.
Eh, most of them are interesting on the virtue of being neat references to recurring items in the series, like the Amber Mariche being floating amber shards or the Ala Melvirana being pretty much a giant power armor, but some of them are pretty underwhelming and have little to do with the original items, like the Rubber Soul or the Flachonel.
The Bilqis being a giant pizza cutter axe that combines with the Melvirana was pretty fun though, and the Duke of Ghor is one of my favourite characters in the game.

It's a cool world and I really like how it has the same exact layouts as Frontier, but Frontier still beats it when it comes to that, as much as TLR has more interesting character stories on average.

Yeah, at the frequently-discounted price of $5.

It still sold a million units more or less even factoring in discounts, most JRPGs on steam can't compete with those numbers factoring discounts too, no need to pretend the game didn't sell.

>It sold a million units on steam too
Nearly meaningless