The great debate

What did she mean by this?

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Kazooie is more tight as a game, but Tooie introduced really cool mechanics like playing Kazooie/Banjo on their own and Dragon Kazooie which was fun.

Kazooie is a dirty bird. And all the new porn of her is proving this.

Kazooie if you like smaller levels. Tooie if you like so many options, so many huge levels that interact between them and so many mini games that your heart will explode before you actually finish the game.

Banjo 2 has too much minigame shit and too much backtracking, otherwise it would be the better game.

Kazooie was better. Tooie had good ideas but I thought the world was annoying to travel through.

Star fox is a series with 1 good game(and 2 remakes of that game) that has 3 reps.
No one had any clue who Marth or Roy were when they were added and by smash 10 fire emblem characters will make up half the roster.
Pit had 1 good game when he was added, now there are 3 Kid Icarus reps for some reason.
Ice Climbers aren't even from a good game.

There is no debate. Fundamentally they are the same game, but Tooie is bigger in every way and has more of everything. It is objectively better.

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Tooie has my wife in it's so it's overall the better bear and bird experience

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A good chunk of Tooie's problems could have been improved somewhat if they added a move which let you run actively faster than the talon trot.

Replace tits and ass with 1/2 then feet with Nuts N' Bolts

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like the superbanjo cheat
which isn't really a cheat since you get it from cheato pages and that makes it more of an unlock/upgrade

Are you going to post this exact line in every future thread? That's okay because I agree.

Tooie has so many fun ideas, eastereggs, dialogs. It's a much more interesting game than Kazooie. Kazooie is much more enjoyable to 100% while Tooie is a pain in the ass to 100%. But if you only play the well made content and don't go out of your way to seek out the shitty parts than Tooie is the much better game. And Tooie has much more content even if you disregard the tedious bits.

It really isn't? It loses a lot of the gameplay pace that Kazooie thrives on by adding too many different bloated moves and locations to the mix, as well as a large amount of generally dull backtracking. Slowing the pace of meaningful collecting kills a lot of the fun of Kazooie, making Tooie closer to DK64 than Mario 64 like Kazooie.

Larger levels, more abilities and broader collectathon elements =/= strictly better, only they make it a different and less focused game.

>Kazooie is much more enjoyable to 100% while Tooie is a pain in the ass to 100%
I assume you mean on the 360 because losing notes at death and not having note clusters was pretty fucking annoying.

Banjo-Kazooie >>>>>>>>>>> Tooie

Honestly, I didn't mind the backtracking in Tooie. I found it fun a lot of the time. It's nothing compared to DK 64 backtracking.

People need to remember that these games aren't made on the assumption that everyone is and has to 100% the game and the larger design is to allow more freedom.

You only need like 70 jiggies to go to the final boss and beat the game which you can get playing the game fairly casually and if you ever get stuck in a level and are having trouble finding jiggies to unlock a new level, you can go back to a previous level with your newer abilities and pick-up jiggies that you may have missed.

Tooie's problems start arising when you are actively trying to 100% the game.

I personally liked Kazooie better because each world was pretty damn close to perfect, the music was god-tier, and Grunty's Lair was absolutely incredible to explore.

Tooie was fantastic too, but it doesn't have the same feeling that Kazooie had for me personally. Mr. Patch's boss fight though was unbelievably fun

No I mean the original one. Tooie is so tedious to 100% that even losing note progress is nothing in comparision. There are quite a few interconnected level fetch quest in Tooie and they all suck.

The fetch quests aren't as bad as losing all your notes upon death. Getting close to all of the notes, only to die and have to do it all over again is a massive pain in the arse compared to some minor fetch quests.

>Mr. Patch's boss fight though was unbelievably fun
I still can't get his noises out of my head
I enjoyed finding them. Not even most of them, if any, were complicated/extremely hidden.
>destroy something and the flying saucer goes through the new passage to Witchy World, etc
What were some annoying world connections in Tooie?

Kazooie isn't "focused", "tight" or "paced" just because the worlds are so tiny and easy that you can clean them out in 10-15 minutes.

Tooie is too large and too empty, with horrendous backtracking. Most of the new power-ups are also too similar or functionally useless to their previous versions like the beck bomb that turns into the beck drill thing. And the later levels are such a clusterfuck with splitting up between Banjo and Kazooie in the middle of these gigantic stages with nothing in them.

I think Tooie was trying too hard to be bigger and better than Kazooie that they forgot what made Kazooie so good. Not that the game is bad, I escepially love most of the boss fights, but the previous tight game design is just not there anymore.

There is only one level where collecting the 100 notes is even anywhere hard. The rest is super easy. The fetch quests will take fucking hours which is all just purely going from one place to another without any kind of meaningful gameplay.

>There is only one level where collecting the 100 notes is even anywhere hard
Which is that? I was doing a 100% for the first time ever a few years ago and died in the swamp. Kept going but then died near the end of Monster Mansion and gave up instantly because I just hate the level so damn much and always had.

1 overall just sells a far better level design. The theme park mentality of its worlds. the usage of notes as progress markers, and most worlds having one major vantage point to survey the land all beauitful.
Tooie on paper has the ideal sequel. A just bigger game that picks up straight from the last. No moves lost, only expanded.
However, its execution falls apart. Worlds become too big for their own good sometimes, and thank god for the warp pads to mitigate this. The heavier focus on backtracking and making the worlds interconnected (as they're all part of the Isle of Hags, instead of pocket spaces in Grunty's lair) leads to an underlying problem where let alone do you rarely get the feeling of completing a world and more that you eventually come back to clean up scraps, it also makes a collectathon where the limit of what you can collect is vague, so to speak. All of these being problems doubled down on in DK64.
Little things like Mumbo's painfully limited speed and attacks for his forced segments and the FPS stages are more minor, but still things that detract from its value.
If Tooie simply had Kazooie chime in saying "Think that's all we can do here for now" if you've got all you can without future abilities or passageways, it'd go from an 8/10 to a 9.

>hating MMM
>not Click Clock Wood
shit taste user

The one thing I can't stand about Tooie is the awful framerate. Did the xbox port ever fix that?

>Split the world up into 4 variants
>They don't have 25 notes each
AHHHHHHHHHH

I knew somebody if not everybody would call me a pleb for hating it. I don't see how you can hate Click Clock Wood, though. The themes alone with the sounds of nature mixed into the song was fucking great.

How do you enjoy these games they feel so fucking slow

This. Tooie is a thinking mans game. BK is simple fun.

Tooie is a completely misunderstood game by zoomer faggots. Take Grunty Industries, by far the best level in the franchise which is greatly hated by many for its complex layout and the fact that you have to really work for every jiggy you get. Faggots love Kazooie because you get a jiggy every 5 seconds and a level lasts 10 minutes.

But Grunty Industries is exactly so great because it takes effort to understand the level. You literally infiltrate the enemy base, you can get into the level trough multiple ways. My highly preferred way is getting in trough the roof instead of taking the train because it feels like a james bond movie where you infiltrate the enemy camp trough the roof.

It takes thinking and effort to get into the factory and once you're there hazards are everywhere. You need to explore the level and first get a good idea. There is one of the best Mumbo parts in the game in this level where you have to survive trough quite a good chunk with Mumbo to get trough his magic platform. But once you have figured the level out you get one jiggy after another, you find secrets quickly, hidden paths and the boss somewhere in the basement. The last third of the level is immensely fulfilling to play and you finish with a grin, you have completely captured the enemy base and gotten all it has to offer.

Then you get to cloud cuckooland and the game sucks again because even though the setting is amazing the level itself fucking sucks even though it has some great parts like terminator mumbo.

Kazooie had soul

Tootie was soulless

>1
There has to be a point to these threads but it just seems kinda...tiresome.

Tooie for the following.

>Jukebox.
>Bosses and Boss rush
>Interconnected worlds.
>Different type of eggmunition and the individual pads.
>Playable mumbo
>amazing world design except cloud cuckooland that one suck.

But the first one has more charm.
I disliked the music notes nests in tooie and the way they changed how to open the worlds.
yet i really like jigsaw voice and that "stop and swop" had a purpose at the end.

I like to imagine a third game with the original purpose of stop n swop I will die happy and with no remorse.

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I prefer Tooie. The controls are better, the worlds are bigger, there are more useful abilities (ledge grabbing, egg sniping, special eggs to name a few), and there are simply more things to do. The worlds are interconnected, giving a sense of a cohesive over-world. The worlds also aren't as small and cramped as Kazooie, so everything feels more immersive and adventurous. It improved upon Kazooie in almost every way.

Definitely did. The port just got a 4K update for Xbone X

Kazooie, easily. The levels are tight and has just the right content to fill it, the story and general theme are light hearted and fun, etc.
Tooie isn't bad, but there are many glaring flaws. The darker theme and emptier worlds are the biggest ones.

First one - Had like two maybe three parts that were not braindead easy

Second one - Entire game paced at a higher difficulty, not just giving you jiggy's for existing

My opinion is that first one is better but admitting that takes nothing away from the second one. They are both incredible games.

Has anyone here put CFW on their Wii U? I was thinking about doing it so I can inject N64 games like Banjo but I don't know if it's worth the effort. Is it as easy as customizing a 3DS, Wii, or PSP yet?

>darker theme is a flaw

Tooie’s darker tone makes the game way more interesting. This cutesy series with googly eyes has Bottles murdered in the intro and then kazooie just says no one liked him anyway. And most of the music is really dark too. It really stands out from other platformers because of that.

I like Tooie slightly more but I played it first as a kid and then the 1st about 10 years later, so I think I'm biased.

It's not even that it is hard, just very tedious and boring because if you die close to 100, you have to go around and pick them all up again. It just feels like pointless padding.

I don't remember fetch quests in Tooie "taking hours". Usually in Tooie, I'll move on to the next level before collecting all of the jiggies in the current one and come back later when I have more moves/have done things in other levels. A good example of this is in Terrydactyland where you drop water from Cloud Cuckooland into some dinosaur's pit. When I did this, I realised "Oh, that's what I needed to do for that jiggy" then go back to pick-up next time I'm in the level to get the last of the items I missed. You can collect that jiggy at any time, you don't have to immediately run down to get it once you've dropped the water. You can just keep going through Cloud Cuckooland until you're done and head back to other levels.

CCW's themes and atmosphere is great, but compared to the rest its navigation structure is a mess in both, Spring and Winter

Tooie had all the parts that Kazooie did, it just gave you other kind of collectibles for doing those parts that would give you entire jiggies in Kazooie. Retards then say the pacing is shit in Tooie even though Tooie had the same parts like Kazooie but more challenging almost mission like design for the actual jiggies that made every jiggy feel special like the stars in Mario 64.

It was completely unsatisfying as a non casual fag to play Kazooie as there was a jiggy you could find around every corner for zero effort. There was also just one semi boss in the game. Tooie had all those platforming parts of Kazooie, even much better than in kazooie but they were just the lead up to getting to the area of obtaining jiggies and not where you already got the jiggies.

If you don't really care about being rewarded constantly then Tooie is so much better it's not even funny. It has much better platforming, exploration and actual variety with cool bosses and minigames. The atmosphere of the levels was also top notch.

Yeah but they did that with Donkey Kong 2 already

I agree with you that Gruny Industries is based, but how can you get in through the factory when you first enter the level? I didn't think that was possible, I think you have to use the train first.

Yes, it is a flaw. The whole game feels depressing as a result.

And that is why DKC > DKC2 in my eyes.

True dat. That’s another one of my favorite games. Love Rare for taking that risk of making a darker toned platformer.

And DKC2 was the best DKC game until Tropical Freeze challenged it

Honestly it's a pretty big fuck around, and in my brief attempt I couldn't actually get injected games to work. That being said the CFW installation is pretty easy and you can install the entire virtual console library with minimal effort.

I agree it makes the game depressing. Just listen to the Tooie version of the spiral mountain theme. One of the most depressing songs I’ve ever heard. But I still don’t think it’s a flaw.

But DKC 2 outdid the original in every way.

Kazooie:
>Small, yet focused levels
>Collectibles always placed in satisfying trails encouraging exploration
>Hub is largely an unimportant level select stage
>Every Mumbo character feels enjoyable to play as, and it rarely feels tedious going from one to another

Tooie:
>Levels far too large and barren
>The satisfying trails of notes are largely gone for the nests/treble clefs, reducing the moment-moment enjoyment a collecathon is supposed to have
>Drill Seargent is annoying early on
>Mumbo transformations become tedious and slow feeling
>Backtracking is insane and majorly disrupts the flow of the game
>Game veers into alternating, often unpolished feeling gameplay sections, as if it wanted to call itself fucking Sonic Adventure, far too many times
>Hub wastes too much time

Kazooie is a 9/10 game whilst Tooie is genuinely like a 6/10 game at the very best.

>Mr Patch fight but you Beak Bomb instead of trowing eggs.

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Hating Tooie is a result of being a brainlet. Kazooie is braindead easy. You actually have to work for every jiggy you get in Tooie.

It's surprisingly unknown but you can enter the factory trough the roof. If I remember correctly you must shoot a clockwork kazooie egg into one of the windows in which you then can unlock a flying pad outside.

Where would said porn be located? Asking for a friend, so that he may avoid it.

This, but the opposite.

NOWYOUCANSEEANICEICEKEYWHICHYOUCANHAVEFORFREE

Tooie didn't have barren levels at all, this is bait. Tooie's levels were filled to the brim with shit to do. Kazooie's levels feel more empty in comparision.

Why is Kazooie so hot? Fuck it, why are anthro birds so hot?

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The levels in 2 were way too big. And no - not memeing - it played it on release.

Also Mumbo Jumbo was a playable character, but only always for one roadblock and then you didn' t need him anymore.

Kazooie is and always will be better. Tooie has too many fucking problems.

She isn't even anthro, what the fuck? You are just a hardcore furry fuck.

Absolutely patrician.
You watched that one review on Youtube, right?

The levels aren't even that big. I seriously can't read this shitty argument any longer. The levels in Tooie are complex not big. They have tons of ways to go. You're such fucking retards for complaining about level complexity.

This, both are 10/10's in their own right and for different reasons.
God it's so great they're back.

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The original is my personal favourite, but I think both are enjoyable games and the problems of Tooie are sometimes overstated. It also has a more memorable cast of characters than Kazooie, imo. The only level I really feel is a drag in Tooie is Terrydactyland. Also fuck Canary Mary.

No I didn't, please don't water down my opinion by comparing me to faggot youtubers. A friend of mine complained for years how Grunty Industries was an awful level because he spend like an hour in it without getting a single jiggy. I blindly agreed with him because I only remembered the level from my childhood where it truly seemed like a pain in the ass.

I then proceeded to 100% the game to see for myself how the levels hold up and to my surprise Grunty Industries was immensely fun and by far the best level in the game.

The only two real complaints I have against Tooie are the framerate and the final boss not being as good as the first one.
And Grunty not rhyming

There is no debate. Everyone knows Diddy Kong Racing is better.

Dunkey said that Kazooie is better so I'll go with that one.

>Dunkey said

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This proves Tooie is better. Fuck that faggot you zoomer scum.

I played 1 and loved the fuck out of it, but I actually hate collectathons with unnecessarily big maps and backtracking so I'm afraid I would hate 2 and never played it for this reason. Should I just give it a try?

I like being able to complete a level the first time I visit it, I didn't enjoy Tooie very much, the new moves really bloated the game.

Yes but mostly because it's just fun to explore each map, I still love Glitter Gulch Mine just because it was fun following the rail tracks around the whole mine.

Tooie is a mess of game. Levels are too large and mostly boring. Collectathon elements are almost nonexistent. 90% of jiggies are obtained via "puzzles" and lame quests, all the notes are bundled together now, etc. The worst of it is the insane amount of backtracking that's required. The shortcuts and spawn points do nothing to eliminate it either.

Oh yeah and I forgot to mention the absurd number of minigames and the shitty FPS segments.

>Tooie is a mess of game. Levels are too large and mostly boring.
Zoom Zoom

e621. Stay well away from it, it's possibly the largest archive of degenerate anthro porn. Isn't that excit- I mean terrifying?

Tooie's amazing. Loved the Goldeneye bits. Must have been my first shooter. I'm not liking one so far

enjoyed tooie. it was good shit

1 isn't a laggy shit mess like 2.
>INB4 MUH XBAWKS 2 REMAKE
Never played it and microsoft is never rereleasing it.

Notice how 99% of complaints about Tooie are about the levels being too large and not being to easily grab all jiggies and beat levels.

The reality of the matter is that Tooie is the much harder and complex game. Brainlets need to shut the fuck up and stick to Kazooie which you can beat in like two hours.

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But they fucking are. There is a reason there are teleports fucking everywhere.

You can play it on 360 and xbone. They just gave it a 4K update.

The teleports should be exactly why no one bitches but you retards find a way

Its on Rare Replay you stupid nigger

what do tooie fags think about dk64

>microsoft is never rereleasing it

They literally, just two fucking days ago, updated Kazooie, Tooie, as well as a wealth of other games to 4K you nitwit.

Also you can play at least Kazooie in xenia

>not being to easily grab all jiggies and beat levels.
I think the levels are too big, but this isn't a complaint I have.

Because a lot of the teleports are placed fucking horribly.

I prefer Tooie Just because not being able to grab ledges in kazooie drives me up the wall.

I loved and hated it. Nothing scarier than seeing a minigame barrel.

So what exactly is the problem? Just treat the levels like multiple segments because that's exactly what they are. What is the complaint here? That you don't have a brand new level every 10 minutes? The levels have different looking areas and music segments so what's the fucking problem? Witchyworld has like 4 different settings in one level and all of them have different music and they are literally split into perfect segments. Jolly Rogers Lagoon has the underwater part and the village. Hellfire Peaks has the ice and the fire level.

>notice how most of the complaints for a collectathon are about how the game design obstructs you from collecting and knowing how much you can collect in a single visit.

You can hear the same complaints in a Yooka Laylee thread and nobody bats an eye.

Yooka Laylee actually shows how retarded the arguments regarding Banjo Tooie are because in Yooka Laylee the levels are truly too big. They are like 3 times the size of Tooie levels and that's just the regular vision, not the unlocked large level version.

And Tooie is split into multiple small areas, smaller segments that make one entire level. Yooka Laylee is just one big area.

>zoomzoom wants instant gratification

It is hard to decide which one is worse. Kazooie is inoffensive albeit not great

Tooie is an abomination that frequently drops to about 8 fps, is filled with large barren environments with muddy ass textures and locks the few fun things it has behind hours and hours of boring ass colectathon

Tooie is better for exploration, gameplay and atmosphere. Kazooie is better for compact worlds.

I love them both, but i overly prefers Tooie because i get to glide around as Kazooie and most levels feel better in general

This nigger gets it. I loved Gunty's Industry just for that shit

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I FUCKING HATE BANJOKEKS!!!

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It's got fun maps and great character designs though I'll admit the whole specific colored bananas thing with character select barrels is bad game design.

The complaint is that it doesn't feel like a cohesive level in that case.
And Jolly Roger and Peaks exemplify my issue. Too much fucking empty space.

Back to the dilating station, stevetranny.

The size argument isn't as valid in Tooie, not for raw scale, but the existence of the warp pads. It's so understated how much they save Tooie's levels and how even DK64 entirely fucked them up.
The utilization of notes/quills as breadcrumbs not being as well handled, and the inherent lack of clarity of how many collectables are available in a level without backtracking, either by way of new abilities or areas only accessible from other ones/expanding are true faults still.

fuck off, you got your fucking character in smash and now you are spamming threads nonstop.

Literally spoiled brats.

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Why would you care a fat cuck like him says?

i find that I basically can't play native n64 games anymore. Way too many suffer intense fps issues. This obviously was straight up not a problem in the earlier generations. So I really have to play them on an emulator now, because I care more about performance that "purity." I didn't really care as a kid, but now dropping down to 10fps isn't cool.

this but unironically

The important part is that every segment feels cohesive. The way they designed the levels makes total sense for the interconnected world theme they were going for.
I don't get why it's so important to be able to finish a level 100% the first time you visit it. They were going for the experience that the world is interconnected so of course they wanted you to visit the worlds again with new abilities to explored them from a different perspective. You still can do like 90% of every level the first time you play them.

>Banjo Tooie
>Walk for 10 hours to get anywhere
>Half the jiggies are locked behind obtuse connected world meme shit
>Another quarter are buried under half-baked minigames
>Sparse empty worlds that feel like beta levels

the only level that is literally trash is cloud cuckoland.

Banjo Kazooie=Soul
Banjo Tooie=Soulless

Cry more faggot

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I specifically had that in mind when I typed my post actually, fuck that level

The one thing I won't accept is that Kazooie is supposed to have more soul. Tooie has literally a thousand times more soul in it.

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t. hasn't played Tooie and just wants to meme

I thought you get the jiggy automatically when you fill up the dinosaur's hole with water. What I remember is when you drop the ice cube from the cloud level to the boiling water in hailfire peak and you need to backtrack to that spot to hit a switch to finish the quest.

youtube.com/watch?v=AbL3A_GT9uw

Here the gay bar with the transsexual frog girlfriend of Jolly.

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They never topped this level, either in execution or conceptually. Prove me wrong you can't.

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My problem isn't "I can't get 100% on the first visit."
My problem is "The game does nothing to state when you're done all you can in a world for now."
Because of things like note nests, small areas where you get to from another world but don't actually connect to the rest of that world's terrain, and the larger side-quest jiggies such as Boggy's kids, you have no clue how many jiggies and notes are locked behind things you must come back for and what you haven't found/come across naturally.
The "best" way to play then is do the bare minimum world to world to get jiggies for the next world and notes for Jam Jars and move on and only backtrack when you can reach the tower.
It sits in my mouth sourly, making the difference of a "run' being more on doing a second loop now that you KNOW you can do everything or not.

i really like tooie but i get why everyone seems to like 1 more

Both are masterpieces, but Tooie > kazooie, that's a fact

youtube.com/watch?v=hAAlDoAtV7Y

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Grunty Industries is much better. It's cool to see the seasons change but in the end you're just climbing that shitty three multiple times and the level doesn't change that much.

Fucking dino level was aids

Man it's gonna be fun beating the Adventure mode with Banjo

Click Clock Wood has a fantastic design though to be honest I didn't find it to be super fun to play through, might just be my impending fear of falling out of that tree though.

Banjo tooie is, without a doubt, the best. True fans know

It would be the best world in a collectathon if the level changed more season to season and it got like 200 notes and 20 jiggies.
Spring is just a shittier version of the Summer world, bar Mumbo letting you be a Bee.
Fall and Winter at least have some notable differences.

This guy gets it.

Tooie is great, and I appreciate its attempt to encourage you to go to old worlds with a new perspective and abilities so you're not just blitzing everything, but it also basically encourages you to wait until you've unlocked everything doing the bare minimum so you can actually go back.

So much time is wasted in Tooie just traveling around the world. Sure, it's part of the fun in exploration, but past a certain point it literally just feels like extended and tedious backtracking to pick up oddly placed jiggies in obtuse fashions in worlds that require more time sink to complete than anything.

I unironically liked Kazooie's design better because it felt more like M64 in that there was some overlap with the main hub in Grunty's Lair, but most of each world had its own unique puzzles to solve to get jiggies, rather than forcing backtracking to solve shit.

I did love a lot of Tooie's worlds and the fact that the hub world was so big, though.

Tooie's multiplayer was so much fun, I used to fuck around in that Bee game with my friends all the time.

if you're 100%ing it's almost impossible to die barring falling off the top of the tree in CCW or falling in the engine room in RBB, which you should always do first so that you get it out of the way
you have so much health by the time you get to the harder levels that it's pretty much impossible to die like that unless you're careless and don't heal up after somehow taking damage

Banjofags are the one fanbase I've seen cry so fucking hard about the only other entrant their series even has, and they act like they deserve another game when they clearly don't appreciate what they were lucky to even get. Fuck them. They shit on their sequel like no one fucking else. Don't even deserve to have it at all.

i never beat tooie so i'll go with kazooie

Tooie has tons of retarded backtracking that forces you to look up at a guide.

Tooie is godly if you use the superbanjo cheat, which is an early ingame unlockable.

>Hating Click Clock Wood

It's a bit janky but the way they incorporated the four seasons, the music, everything about that world is just so fucking good.

>He's never played Nuts and Bolts
It's a hilariously misjudged game in terms of a sequel to two platformers, but as a game itself, it's smashing.

I like how people love click clock wood so much but when banjo tooie comes along and brings you more of the same tedious shit click clock wood has suddenly it's bad because tooie isnt the first game everyone played as impressionable kids who didn't know any better.

The most fun was camping with this bad boys.

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extremely redpilled post

Yea Forumstards just like to bitch and moan and pretend to be hardcore gamers but when push comes to shove there's nothing shitters here prefer than taking the easy way out and then trying to act superior for it

The difference is that the backtracking in Click Clock Wood actually makes sense within the theme of the world, and it's barely 'backtracking' as it's all contained within the level itself.

Going from season to season to get a specific jiggy (like with the flower or bird) at least makes sense within the theme of the world, and it's barely "backtracking" because you're making progress towards it with each season.

Tooie requires you to travel an ungodly amount to collect weird and obtuse jiggies that you've probably forgotten about across MULTIPLE worlds, and adds in a fuckload of fetch quests to boot.

CCW is a masterpiece of a world for that reason. Tooie just takes that and goes way overboard with it. It's almost like they looked at CCW's design and thought about how to put it on steroids for every world in Tooie.

>Banjo-Kazooie
Played it, great game.
>Banjo-Tooie
Never played it, must be shit.
next thread.

Kazooie is for kids who have ADHD and need every level to consist solely of what boils down to tiny rooms which exist solely to have a jiggy in it and then once you've gotten the jiggy you literally never have to enter that part of the map ever again, baby's first 100% where even super mario 64 was more complex
Tooie is for people who have a triple digit IQ and can actually remember things, also having patience and encouraging planning out efficient routes because it's actually possible to do so, a joy to speedrun with varied gameplay that prevents tooie from ever becoming too monotone

Don’t take what those people say so seriously. Tooie missed the mark a little by making worlds too big, but it was a step up from Kazooie in most regards. Rare’s real collectathon mistake was DK64.

>more of everything
>less jiggies
Makes for big, empty worlds

>tooie has fast travel to each notable part of the worlds which makes the worlds feel small
>people still asshurt because the worlds arent the size of an office cubicle

>kazooie
Played it first, therefore it's better
>Tooie
Played it second therefore it's worse

Do you prefer tightly knit levels with clear cut objectives or open world game design?

Tooie has more content but Kazooie is far more focused. I prefer the first but I dont hate the second.

Banjofags don't deserve a new game.

Kind of related but I miss old N64 strategy guides, I used to love just reading all the little tips and shit they added in there along with the cool maps.

>if tooie held your hand even more it'd be a great game

I like kazooie and nuts & bolts more than tooie

Keep saying it

Terrible taste

>wtf why tooie's worlds not 10 rooms with 1 jiggie each in them and nothing else

The best part of tooie is that the worlds actually feel like, y'know, WORLDS, and not just setpieces that exist as glorified soulless obstacle courses. Super mario 64 often had you do a bunch of 'meaningless shit' often to get a star, nobody complains about it. You often had to take the same pathes for many stars, nobody complains.
Kazooie has shit like
>climb hill get jiggie
whereas tooie has actual world interaction that makes it feel like a legitimate adventure. Worlds arent just one and done and the connectivity feels nicer than kazooie's attempt to not copy super mario 64's paintings for world entrances.

based NPC contrarian

Fucking grunty's revenge is even better than tooie. Tooie may very well be one of the worst 3-D games ever made, I would legitimtely, no joke, no contrarianism bullshit rather play through donkey kong 64 five times over than even bother trying to 100% tooie where you need fucking strategy notes and spreadsheets and other shit to 100% a level which often cannot be done in one go even if you do some serious exploitation of the mechanics, which often can't even be done until you go further into the game and then come all the fucking way back for shit you had to miss because you ran out of collectable jiggies to keep going further. Fuck tooie. One of the worst bait and switch games there has ever been.

>WAAAAAAAAA I CAN'T BEAT THIS LEVEL IN 5 MINUTES
There, you could have just posted this instead of sperging out.

>wtf why every tooie level not mumbo's mountain

I think Tooie does exactly what a sequel should, but I find most of the levels unfun and they mostly front loaded which makes it hard to replay

tooie
youtube.com/watch?v=fOmFdMXQaK8

>tfw never got to finish either one because someone stole them while family and I were away
Feels bad man

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