Imagine in a single player rpg where you travel up to a mountain to kill some undead in a dungeon. You need a staff from the lich that resides there for a quest. You go through the dungeon and kill the lich at the end. You loot his corpse and his chests, the staff isnt there. Then you leave and go back to town only to realize that you will be going back to that same dungeon multiple times. Why would you want to go back, you already killed the enemies and took the treasure there? Well actually all the enemies respawned and the quest item you needed didnt drop from the lich, so you will need to go back multiple times in the hopes that it will drop eventually.
This is what an mmo is. Nothing you do changes the world. You have to do everything multiple times in hopes that you will get what you need. This is what is called the grind. It is the majority of the game. Grinding mobs in the world. Grinding bosses in dungeons you have already killed previously. Grinding for professions. The core gameplay of mmos is grinding, and grinding is not fun, its work. This is why classic numbers will drop fast, the core gameplay behind the game is bad. Retail is already bad but at least the grind is mostly taken out of it, in classic, its all you have. Just look at how delusional classic fans are. One thing they are excited about is how long it will take to get your mount. They are excited about moving around the world slower, they want the game to be tedious.
I will admit that some people like this tedious grind, but they are a small minority and many people who used to put up with this no longer will, due to the advancement in games getting rid of the more tedious elements that used to be in older games.
How would you know what drop you're looking for unless you're looking at guides on the internet for the dungeons?
Jackson Jones
It becomes common knowledge what bosses drop in any mmo after a certain amount of time. Everyone will know what drops in classic since its an old game
Camden Brooks
Why is doing a different dungeon every time a better alternative to doing the same one multiple times? Why is "new content" arbitrarily better than "content you already did"? The best games of any genre are very replayable. Any content should be good enough to allow multiple playthroughs without getting boring. The problem with most MMOs is that people don't find the content attractive anymore. It's all about the endgame, which is where the developers made the most interesting content in the first place.
Jack Torres
Once youve done SM once, youve seen it all. I remember doing SM with guild members back in the day where they would want to run the same instance back to back. Holy shit was that bad. The deadmines or SM are not fun enough to warrant playing over and over. When calssic comes out do you realize how many times you are going to be doing those dungeons? The whole concept is just not enticing.
Jaxon Cook
Doing the same dungeon multiple times is just a way for developers to pad out a game.
Alexander Walker
That's because they have few to no secrets, are linear paths you can't do out of order and stuff like that. If the dungeons were made for replayability they'd be a lot more fun to go through multiple times. Not if they're well designed. People replay some games tons of times even without the MMO grind aspect to them.
Robert King
you fucking retard! Classic was literally one of the best vodeo games ever made, you are just a low iq casual and so you cant appreciate it! You probably couldnt get past the starting zone you suck so much ass! I could literally own you as a level 30 even if you were a lvl 60.
You just dont understand the feeling of accomplishment in an mmo. It doesnt matter if I can get a horse easily. It only matters if I need to put in effort to be able to buy a mount. Neither do you understand how it feels to clear a raid boss after spending hours to finally defeat a boss you have been spending days trying to beat. You are what is ruining the game industry and are a low iq retard. I bet you even played on horde you subhuman mongrel.
Ethan White
what is a replayable dungeon? Any mmo, Im interested in seeing what a good mmo dungeon could be like
Elijah Mitchell
Ive heard the stuff in everquest were pretty good. They were open world dungeons and not instances like in wow. Obviosuly there are problems though with open world dungeons in that bosses could always be contested by other groups
Aaron Phillips
I dont think wow is well designed then. The content is pretty boring. Doing things multiple times brings bad thoughts to my mind
Lincoln Torres
That's the point, in MMOs the devs just drop the fucking ball to include six thousand dungeons with random mobs thrown in small groups. Something with unlockable chunks by keys that drop inside the dungeon itself, different paths for parties to take, different sub-areas depending on classes taken (such as a mage being able to open a path no other class can) Take hints from metroidvanias, zelda dungeons, anything that's proven to be more replayable than linear corridors. I can't name any MMO that does this, but I'd love to know if there's any.
Jacob Long
Every time you run the dungeon you have a new group unless you are playing with the same people the entire way through the whole game forever. Every time you run a dungeon it'll be a new experience in the same area. You're also ignoring the fact that players interact with other players, something that you'd never experience in a single player RPG. MMOs are about playing with other people and experiencing the game with them. It's not about getting gear. It's a completely different genre and by trying to pretend that this isn't true you show just how fucking dumb you are.
>imagine being this assblasted that people like things you don't
Colton Parker
Essentially you are saying you are willing to put up with things you wouldn’t put up with in a non mmo becuase there are other people. Hardly compelling desu
Ryan Thompson
Agreed, nostalgia is a hell of a drug, especially for autistic asperger manchildren.
Jackson Diaz
I mean hell, even communists who were probably starving at one point under communism, once they switch to capitalism probably become nostalgic for the old system after many years of forgetting the bad and only remembering the good.
Landon Myers
I was really excited for classic until I remembered all the times I was bored and frustrated because I had to level all alone in feralas. Those moments were the majority of the game. I remember how much I hated leveling and just wished to get to cap and get my mount so I could world pvp. Leveling sucks, it keeps you on this path you have to stick to. It would be better to just let everyone start out at cap level by removing leveling altogether
>MMOs are about playing with other people and experiencing the game with them >It's not about getting gear HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh wait, you're serious so are you a 40+ year old boomer who's only ever played ancient MMOs or are you just retarded? MMOs haven't been about social experiences in over a decade now.
Levi Perez
even then, a large majority of the time you have to quest and level by yourself. Streamers playing classic are essentially playing a different game. Asmongold will never know what its like to play alone unless he makes an anonymous character. Normal people will be playing alone a lot of the time
Elijah Cooper
Even classic wow doesn't compare to how mandatory social interaction was in older MMOs. Best example I can think of off the top of my head being Star Wars Galaxies, where choosing to not socially interact essentially meant you didn't progress, or progressed at a fucking snails pace as opposed to the "standard" pace. MMOs now are completely about getting gear, and classic WoW was pretty gear focused too, you just had to interact to get that gear. It's the ancient ass MMOs that were actually about the experience of interacting with others and working towards a non-gear related goal.
Jonathan Parker
mmos were first kinda bad because the technology to make them good just wasn't there. but then they continued to be bad because they had amassed a fanbase that loved all the dogshit tab targeting combat, awful quest design and copious amounts of grind, and devs kept pandering to those people
Thomas Adams
>tab targetting is a massive turn off to most of the MMO market now >quest design is notably better now, with notable examples being oldschool wow which had no markers and required actually reading and thinking, as well as ESO, which has full voice acting and actual well played out stories for just about every quest literally the only holdover from old MMOs is the grind, which you could argue either way as to whether it got worse or better. devs definitely aren't pandering to the old mmo audience anymore, they want the money, hence all the mobile faggotry.
Jace Gray
even if the combat isn't specifically tab targeting nonsense (which it was up until fairly recently) it's still typically pretty bad and nowhere near a singleplayer RPG with decently designed combat, like dark souls or something. at best, mmorpg pve combat is like "wow i had to avoid the red circle, this is almost like a real game haha"
quest design probably isn't quite as awful as it was, but i mean, if you compare any aspect of an mmorpg with a singleplayer game where those things are actually done well, they seem like total shit. mmorpgs are still roughly 15 years behind other games when it comes to gameplay design.
i'd kill for a mmorpg that had dark souls' combat, world design, progression and general atmosphere, but i know it's not happening because mmorpg fans don't want any of that shit, they want their braindead simple combat and a skinner box to give them the illusion of achievement
Robert Roberts
And that's why MMOs are all shit now, yes good you're keeping up.
Jace Morales
ESO and BDO literally shit on the entire TES series, which are decently made singleplayer RPGs with passable combat (though holy fuck i hope they improve in tes6). Combat in MMOs isn't an issue, it's getting a lot better. The issue is latency. BDO's combat is amazing but it can feel kind of awkward when there's any amount of latency, and I'm positive many MMOs with creative combat restrained themselves due to knowing about the issues of latency. It causes that awkward, game-y feeling that singleplayer games don't have. Other than that, there's no design or technical reason that holds an MMO back from having objectively better combat than a singleplayer game. Shit, look at Planetside 2. That's classified as an MMO and has gunplay pretty much on par with any other at-least-mediocore shooter. Quest design varies heavily based on the MMO and I think it's disingenuous to say "singleplayer game where those things are actually done well". MMOs typically don't do it as well, sure, but I could also just say "ESO does questing better than any singleplayer JRPG that doesn't do questing very well". I dunno about the vast majority of MMO players, but of the small communities I've been in and people I've talked to, a lot of people would be totally down for it but a lot also don't think it'd work out. I think the genre is so fucking stagnant that people who are a fan of it can't really comprehend a series leap in evolution for the series anymore, it's really weird. For the record, I'd also REALLY fucking cool for that. I prefer singleplayer games but holy shit, I'd play that game forever. I think the only hurdle there that would need to be tackled is world impact, in other words avoiding the scenario OP presents.
Aaron Peterson
could you explain what a non geared goal would be
Dylan Ward
in Star Wars Galaxies, literally every single profession could be a goal, and those took a long ass time to get up. Didn't need badass gear to do that either, if you wanted to go into the Doctor profression you didn't go out and shoot shit to allocate experience into it. You could also get friends together to help you achieve those goals, or join a group who could help you out. In fact, they never really made it about gear, even when they dumbed the game down. The goal was always something unique. Shit, the Jedi Holocrons, while probably frustrating as fuck, were one of the most unique ideas I've seen in an MMO and an extremely long term goal.
