Did Demise ruin Ganondorf’s entire character?

Yes, now the G-man will always be a villain.

I honestly thought that was going to be the big twist in Skyward Sword when it first was shown. Groose was destined to become the King of Evil or some shit.

Though honestly, I like the direction they took Groose with.

Maybe miyamoto will retire and we'll FINALLY get another non-ganondorf villain?

Chancelor cole and malledus were pretty cool, as was majora and vaati.

i dont know how many years its been since SS was released but i straight up thought groose was ganon.

>Maybe miyamoto will retire and we'll FINALLY get another non-ganondorf villain?
I fucking wish. He's the reason why Zant got punked in TP.

it stopped making sense after zelda 3 fag

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>Skyward Sword's writer and director goes on to direct BOTW
>fucks up his own canon

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but Ocarina takes place before ALTTP and the Master Sword isn't in Z1 or 2

really annoying as there was absolutely NO REASON to bring him in, the plotline was already solid.

You're expanding on the world lore, and have introduced a group of dark magic users who were sealed away previously for coveting the triforce and misusing their magic. BAM, that's a perfect motivation and explanation for the villains.

Additionally, the Freaky "Stab your friend" scene doesn't make any sense in the narrative they told with ganondorf as the villain-- The scene seemed to have been put in as a paralell to Midna and Zant as a lesson about the corrupting nature of seeking power (Since Midna was seeking the dark power of her ancestors to overthrow Zant, but that also could easily lead one down the same path as her ancestors if they weren't careful), but that was completely pointless with the introduction of Ganondorf and the whole "I WORSHIP A GOD" thing for zant.

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>>Skyward Sword's writer and director goes on to direct BOTW
>goes from the Oracle games to fucking SS and BotW
How did a man fall so hard?

he is essentially. he wanders off into the desert and impregnates a gerudo woman who has a son. the son proceeds to impregnate multiple gerudo women who for some reason have mostly daughters. one son is born out of the batch. this repeats for a few generations and that's how the king of thieves is created

but to counter his weakness to the master sword

seethe timeline was a mistake and the fans are retarded for demanding it

There's nothing wrong with having a timeline.

The only way another sword "counters" the master sword is "I put it in front of the other sword so I don't get stabbed by kryptonite", which is basically what he already does with all his other swords.

but even before the timeline was a thing OOT was a prequel to ALTTP showing Ganondorf before Ganon became a thing

In every way shape and form, yes. I hate the story of Demise and I've lost interest in Zelda since. Skyward sword really ruined the lore. Now we have multiple Ganons, an inexplicable third timeline, and constant anime type bullshit. To me Zelda was always this high fantasy post-apocalyptic adventure. There was always a sense of mystery to the series linked by one thread of continuity: Ganon. Now that Ganons just reincarnates, it's all kind of stupid. Demise ruined the lore.

The story for Breath of the Wild continued the gay. Maybe I'm old, but those games just don't interest me anymore.

What character?

I'd be cool if Ganon stayed in TP since he stole the show whenever he showed up on screen, but keep Zant as the main villain.

Fuck you, he's right.

Damn, are you me? SS' lore implications did more damage to the series than Zelda sending Link back in time.

Zelda games don't do enough with the predestined roles shit, everyone knows this.
Makes me kind of glad that BOTW is a very clear intentional move away from the "three people have a piece of the triforce" type story shit because we've had several games with that setup and they didnt do anything interesting with it

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There's nothing wrong with having one, keep your autism in check faggot.

Depends. There is some role for tragedy here. Zelda honestly seems like a series where everything is pre determined and there is no free will. If they can finally bring a newly reincarnated Ganondorf from the beginning and show his descent into evil I think that would work well.

>He genuinely believed that it was the same Ganon in every game

Surely, surely you weren’t retarded enough to think this?

The timeline only got bad during the Gamecube era.

The split timeline thing could actually work but things went worse with FSA with it's plot all over the place. And TP having Ganondorf in it. Funny enough both were caused by Miyamoto, it's pretty clear he didn't care about continuity.

I wonder what they're doing story-wise with the next game. I really doubt they're going to go back to Ganon(dorf) since they're not going to want to go backwards in time past BotW

They kinda did that with WW Ganondorf but they didn’t go deep enough into it. Still, what little they did was enough to make him a lot of people’s favorite version of the character.

I feel sorta similar, though I'm holding out on BOTW's sequel going back to the more traditional fantasy themes and gameplay choices of the previous games even if it doesn't seem likely. Dark Souls has been filling the Zelda void for me for a while now, though since the series 'ended' there's not much to look forward to in terms of "traditional Zelda" content

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>Makes me kind of glad that BOTW is a very clear intentional move away from the "three people have a piece of the triforce" type story shit
And yet they still talk about shit from the SS, the one everyone wanted to forget about.

like i've been saying that timeline shit ruined everything and zelda fans are retarded for wanting it

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even in the "canon" it's all the same Ganon save for Four Swords Adventure

It just kind of cheapened the mystery. Was it too hard to accept that Link and Zelda and Ganon are forced by fate in to endlessly engage in conflict? No, that was plenty good explanation. Ganon's hunger for power would always be met by its opposites. If anything, it was getting interesting when it became apparent that Ganon was aware of this cycle, like in WW.

Demise made the entire thing a charade. It wasn't fate, it was some stupid argument no one cared about by some character no one has heard of. After SS the tone of the series started to change too. It moved away from serious high fantasy and is now more anime inspired.

I also don;t get how the third timeline even makes sense. It's totally a what-if situation. I guess we brought this on ourselves though, we demanded answers and they couldn't just give us what we "found." So they threw in a twist. I await the day the series returns to form.

>but things went worse with FSA with it's plot all over the place.
If FSA was rendered uncanon, I doubt anyone would care.

SS made me hate Zelda and the Hylia character for making Link the break in case of emergency button. Dude is a slave now.

>trusting nintendo with character development and plot
If BOTW and SS didn't teach you that lesson, I don't know what will.

The only way they'll redeem themselves is if they retcon the cycle or make Ganondorf aware of the cycle, and his goal is to break it.

Why not?

TP proved they can do character development if they wanted.

>they retcon the cycle
Then they retcon SS, which retcons BotW. I'm okay with this.

The Hero's Spirit from TP was a cool play on the concept of unavoidable fate. He's a previous Link who was doomed to die tragically after completing his cycle. Even though he himself lost his life, he still has to teach the new Link what he needs to know to succeed. That was kind of cool.

It's these little implicit stories that made Zelda so cool to me. The reading between the lines. People will call me a fag, but that's why Majora's Mask was so great.

As stated previously, Zelda lore was ruined by the official timeline trying to connect everything. Zelda should work how Final Fantasy works, where only obvious direct sequels are related, and everything else is independent of each other.

who is Demise ? is he related to Ganon and why I never played SS

It greatly hurt his character, to say the least. All the development from ALttP onward is forced into a flat caricature like he was in Zelda 1. He's back to square one and now he can't even leave it.

Oh man, the Hero's Shade was great because it showed that being a hero wasn't all sunshine and rainbows at the end and gave OoT Link more of a human side. I bet he's kicking himself after seeing his descendent go through the same thing after the end of TP.

it's fine to hate on Nintendo doing an 'official' one years later to appease fans but that doesn't mean the older games had no continuity between them

Gay opinion. What is it like being so gay? ss zelda is best zelda

Thanks to Hyrule Historia he's not even the emergency button. Hyrule could have defeated Ganon all along but was filled to the brim with lazy cunts who wanted to make a single orphaned child suffer and be a one-man army first.

I forgot, wasn't Zelda the reason he keeps coming back? Like if you could kill her, all the suffering would end?

Link has always been the break in case of emergency button. He only shows up when shit hits the fan, this was always a staple of his character and stated in games prior to SS

>giving a shit about Zelda lore

Nigger if they're not going to bring back based characters like dancer Din, Midna, Ghirahim, Groose, and Zant after their one canon appearance why should I give a shit?

It's like caring about Mario lore. It's basically just context for the gameplay.

Demise's curse established the cycle, at least until the SS prequel manga made Hylia basically ensnare Link's spirit forever.

Ganondorf isn't a character.

>Nigger if they're not going to bring back based characters like dancer Din, Midna, Ghirahim, Groose, and Zant after their one canon appearance why should I give a shit?
KAAAAAAANTOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I don't think the mangas are canon.

he is literally ganon. he says somthing gay like "i will reincarnate over and over to defeat you" to link meaning he becomes ganon and his incarnate's only motivation is to be the bad guy. it's pretty gay. in the final battle you grab a lightning bolt with the wiimote and strike him down with it, that's kinda fun. SS is seriously flawed but it has some fun moments. the story is absolute trash and the fans made it that way. zelda fans are retarded

Mario lore is actually deeper than Zelda lore, as retarded as it sounds. We at least know what exists outside of the Mushroom Kingdom and what the world outside of most of the games is like, meanwhile Zelda is basically limited to Hyrule and a few parallel dimensions that all function nearly identically to Hyrule, the sole exceptions being Labrynna and Holodrum which are only seen once and mentioned outside of their respective games ONCE

just think about that for a second, fucking Mario, the bing bing wahoo man, has a more intricate universe than Zelda, which is meant to be a series of grand fantasy stories

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>Want a cool thing to come back
>KAAAAAANTOOOOO! meme in response

If you can’t see the difference between Kanto being shoved down our throats for nostalgiabaiting and wanting a cool character to make another apparent experience then you are RETARDED

>he fans made it that way.
I'm sure the fans told Fujibayashi to make Zelda waifubait and Ganondorf into literally Satan.

SS retroactively ruined the entire lore of the series. It's such a lame attempt at making the series deep, but it just manages to ruin its main cast.

>wanting a cool character to make another apparent experience then you are RETARDED
Nah I don't want the past characters to get dragged through the mud like Zelda in SS and BotW. Midna and pals getting cameos in HW was mercy.

You all keep saying that SS ruins the lore but nobody has said why

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not sure if bait but they literally did

dem toes :P

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It revealed shit than nobody wanted or needed. Plus it made the first ever Zelda adventure an shitfest with anime high schools and waifus, and took a fat shit on Elzlo and the MC.

For one thing ALttP says the Master Sword was made by townspeople who were tired of evils shit while SS retcons it to the generic "actually it was gods" bullshit.

>but they literally did
>But really they didn't

Are you a retard. There's multiple posts as to why. Read with your eyes you dumb fucking idiot.

Imo it ruins Ganondorf because now he's driven by destiny/Demise's curse and has no will of his own. Ruined Zelda because despite being a goddess and all knowing, her plan ended up sending Hyrule into 3 timeliness of misery. Ruined the triforce because back then anyone could weild it. People literally fought wars to use i yet now it you need to pass the trials, temper your spirit, etc. Why protect it if almost no one can pass the trials or even wield it?
Lastly it ruined link. He used to be a nobody who happened to rise to the call whenever evil showed up. The legends often keep the Links in some mistery as well. Now because of demise the same 3 characters need to be reborn, which means the world is fucked if any reincarnate. Might as well wish for them to not exist and Hyrule will prosper.

>they go out of their way to say FUCK DESTINY and do everything in their power to avert the prophecy
>just like in classic Greek tragedies it is this very effort that sets in motion the chain of events that ultimately forces them to fight to the death

too bad Ninty would never write a story like this

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>Mortals are supposed to use the Triforce
>Hylia abandons her duties forever on a gambit to become mortal and use the Triforce herself, even though there should be no shortage of good mortals who can be trusted with it
>Also proceeds to make herself the permanent ruler of the mortals, thereby stripping them of a proper mortal leader to represent their interests for all time (save for rare occasions)
Hylia/Zelda's actually a gigantic asshole and screwed over everyone. She's even ensured that Demise's curse can do the most damage possible every single time and refuses to break that pattern.

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Forgot to mention that it ruined the master sword lore (of which there are 2 now) and the fact that there's supposed to be a war for the triforce right after SS. Have fun picturing all those fugly npcs killing each other for something they can't even wield.

he says it right there in his post, it's a lame attempt at making the series deep. it was just fine being a "legend" where the themes kept repeating but nothing was really "connected" except for a few clearly direct sequels. then they listened to the stupid fanbase and decided to make The Timeline. that shit ruined zelda forever. if skyward sword had a stand alone original story breath of the wild wouldn't have had such a stupid story. adding lore to the master sword is the dumbest shit i can imagine. it's a magic good guy sword like excalibur, everyone knows what that entails. you don't need to add something like Fi to the story and make breath of the wild about "reawakening ur power" just write an original fucking story. better yet don't even write a story, just make a good game. going from A to B to save the princess has always been fine. we never even needed lore in zelda games

>right after SS
That would be between FS and OoT though

>we never even needed lore in zelda games
Then the series would be boring as fuck. Little snippets like the Imprisoning War in ALTTP added so much to the world.

The timeline existed as early as Ocarina of Time. The Adult Timeline clearly still existed after Link was sent back, but Link was absent from it. The Wind Waker confirmed the timeline split in the Japanese version (NoA invented some nonsensical explanation in its place about Link not being a hero anymore).

The problem was making garbage like the Decline Timeline instead of just doing what they'd done for every other game -- changing and adding onto what they had written. Zelda II added a third-wheel Triforce of Courage and an old curse, ALttP ditched the old curse completely and gave Ganon more of a backstory, OoT entirely ditched the idea of connecting to ALttP between production and the final version, etc. FSA already tried to create a new possible place for ALttP's backstory to boot. Instead, Nintendo shattered time for no reason and made Link's entire journey pointless in the first place all just to still call OoT the moment of ALttP's backstory.

*cracks knuckles* okay lets do this

SS added a bunch to Zelda lore and gave it depth beyond what it had 100 times over. you may have been content with its episodic style story line but for me and a lot of others SS connecting every game and giving the lore an overarching story is really cool. We all knew that Link, Zelda, and Ganon were reincarnating SS just gave us the origin.

so you’re mad about a retcon to a throwaway kind in LttP? Even then, we’ve seen the Master Sword be damage to the point that it’s unusable. So the townsfolk easily could have repaired it and “created” it anew. If you think the sword of evil’s band which has the power to smite darkness was made by some bumfucks in some town then you’re retarded. period. I will admit I don’t like Fi but SS gave the master sword and awesome origin story and actually gives a logical reason as to why only Link can use it. Get dunked

Not an argument. Next

Ganondorf being an evil sucker is why he reincarnates. He acts completely independent of Demise. Demise’s curse is just how he keeps coming back. Hylia is a goddess but in every Zelda game the gods are honestly pretty weak for “gods”. Their seals get broken all the time, they lose control of situations, etc. “goddess” in the Zelda universe is ore of a title for a higher entity, but not necessarily a powerful one. Everyone can use the triforce, the king uses it in WW and there was another Zelda game where a bunch of common folk used it to make a wish, forgot which one. SS didn’t do anything to change this. Link is still some schmuck who has to ride up, but now there just an explanation as to why he shows up in different timeframes. Completely logical, barely changes much, adds a cool touch to the lore. Get dunked

>wahhh I don’t like when the devs add more to the story to make the series more interesting, I want to be given the bare minimum at all times

Get dunked

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>Zelda: "This isn't good, those who reject their destiny usually face severe punishment"
>Ganondorf: "That's fine by me, I was going to face punishment either way"

I have a feeling that WW was supposed to be a definite ending for the series. Hyrule is destroyed, the master sword and Ganon left at the bottom of the sea, tetra returns to her old self and most importantly, the king wishes for their destinies to be fulfilled. Meaning an end to the cycle.

Too bad that they went back on that and shat out two sequels where Link and Zelda proved they learnt nothing from the king and Hyrule's mistakes
Well my point is more that Zelda doesn't characterize it's characters enough to show that they'd kill each other over greed.

Not at all, it was one of the only good things about SS.

Demise is a shit antagonist.

Ghirahim was much better

>implying you read that shit as a 6 year old
i had no fucking idea what the "story" was in ALttP when i was a kid but it was still my favorite game. i thought the secret book from sahashrala was dope. i waited until i was absolutely stumped to break the seal on it. zelda needs to get back to those roots and forget having some stupid shonen storyline that cosplay fags can relate to. zelda used to be about adventuring and solving puzzles, not "muh experience"

What manner of autism is this now?

>SS added a bunch to Zelda lore and gave it depth beyond what it had 100 times over.
Please be less blatant in your shitposting next time so I can deem you worthy enough for a (You).

Ghirahim was a lame jobbing fag. His fights were shit (beside the final one) and you fight him like three times.

>I have a feeling that WW was supposed to be a definite ending for the series.
That's pretty silly user, like GSC being the end of pokemon silly.

>i had no fucking idea what the "story" was in ALttP when i was a kid
I was a kid too and I understood the story, you're just a retard user.

But gsc WAS meant to be the ending of the series. The devs said so! Eh, the point is that both would be fitting as ending for their respective series.

something about all the lore that SS added feels really messy and janky. I don't like it at all and hope they retcon it desu.

>so you’re mad about a retcon to a throwaway kind in LttP?
I'm "mad" that retcons are fucking stupid and are shit tier storytelling
>Even then, we’ve seen the Master Sword be damage to the point that it’s unusable. So the townsfolk easily could have repaired it and “created” it anew.
There is nothing to support this in ALttP and is retcon garbage
> If you think the sword of evil’s band which has the power to smite darkness was made by some bumfucks in some town then you’re retarded.
Blame Nintendo for writing it
>I will admit I don’t like Fi but SS gave the master sword and awesome origin story
If by "awesome origin story" you mean extremely generic "the gods did it" then you do you.

>bro we should totally end our multimillion money maker after this one, like legit end it
Nah, that's silly thinking.

Just give me a fucking antihero Ganondorf or make him a secondary protagonist, it would be so bloody kino omg.
He's always been one of the more intelligent and at times reasonable Nintendo villains and has an interesting personality. Please Nintendo.

Not the guy you're responding to, but Skyward Sword overly fused things and stripped away flexibility. Before SS only Link had any kind of reincarnation, and that was only mentioned in The Wind Waker to explain why a new hero didn't arise after the timeline split. Each Zelda could be unique (Zelda II even has two existing at the same time), and Ganon was the same person who kept returning with dark powers. SS forced everything together permanently and limited everything that could be done from that point on.

The Master Sword's origin wasn't a throwaway line either. It was part of the detailed manual backstory of ALttP, and the Master Sword was forged by mortal hands and powered by the gods, bridging the gap between the mortal hero and the holy powers. Ganondorf is also clearly meant to be an actual reincarnation of Demise, hence the highly similar physiques, color palettes, fighting styles, etc. Ganon's common title is even "Great Demon King", tying into Demise's role. Add in how Hylia became the mortal Zelda to use the Triforce and we basically have Demise doing the exact same thing.

no you're just autistic. kids didn't read that shit. we knew the uncle died and then the princess was in trouble. that was the story. literally nobody wants to sit through the slow scrolling text. the rest of it was about finding hearts and killing bosses. aka the actual gameplay

>Well my point is more that Zelda doesn't characterize it's characters enough to show that they'd kill each other over greed.
Well we don't know about the situation of the Hyrule Civil War enough to know what went down so best to just wait for a game until then.

>Kids have no reading comprehension

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>kids didn't read that shit. we knew the uncle died and then the princess was in trouble. that was the story. literally nobody wants to sit through the slow scrolling text. the rest of it was about finding hearts and killing bosses. aka the actual gameplay
If you couldn't wait to read the simple text readings, then you have autism user.

The game gave us this cutie

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thats strange why he never came back in BOTW ?or any game so there are 2 Ganons that exist. Demise was a waste

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>Tfw no game where Ganondorf begins as something similar to his Wind Waker portrayal only to descend further and further into madness as Demise's curse takes hold of him.

I'd rather have a game with a Ganon protagonist where he is somehow raised outside of Gerudo shit only to realize when he grows up that he's basically destined to be the ultimate evil

because opinions

>tfw when I thought botw would give us this or a game where Ganondorf and his curse finally split from each other.

>trying this hard
just admit it you learned the lore as a teenager/adult and you never fucking read that shit as a kid. nobody knows who you are nobody is judging you

>tfw no TP where Zant keeps Ganondorf on life support to sap his life strength away and slowly go insane with power
>no fight where Link puts a decaying Ganondorf out of his misery after defeating him in a respectful manner

>Link and Ganondorf, the good king of the Gerudo, are friends
>Demise shows that he has reincarnated, this time messing with Hylia's plan and he's now Zelda, bearer of the Triforce
>Long game happens
>Ends with Ganondorf taking Demise, binding himself for eternity so that when evil would appear, it would be him. An old friend holding back the evil as best he could who can laugh even as they fight

Zelda's story is accessible as hell, everyone at any age knows it. The title screen cutscene in ALttP even starts very soon after the fanfare ends.

Unlike you user, I wasn't the autist who impatiently blasted through the dialogue. The NPCs usually had some clues on where to go and find some new loots.

Yes because Ganondorf is now shitty Demise in human form.

Ganondorf as an independent character is gone and ruin. Only blind zeldasoyfaggots would defend this

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You could say he was the Demise of ganondorfs character

zelda fans are the most tryhard

zelda lore is the worst

zelda was ruined when WW was revealed

SS and that stupid timeline were the nail in the coffin

the 25th anniversary was clearly the turning point were zelda became a shit franchise and a shell of what it once was. quite frankly it was never much after the 6th game or so

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Calamity Ganon has to be the worst crime in all of Zelda lore. he's a big dumb fucking idiot who says nothing and has no reason for anything. He's just like an evil cloud. Why is he calamity ganon? I dunno.

Everyone shits on SS, myself included, but BoTW has to have the worst story in the series. It's literal anime bullshit with a gay twink as the main character who fights an evil cloud. The game is trash and I can't believe so many retards loved it.

>Demise curses the good people of the world by giving villains his will and making them persistent, villains who wont give up and want power. Most of these got pretty close to complete control
>Ganon is the first one to do shit after Demise
>Wants Triforce
>Is such a strong dark magician, he can reincarnate himself every century or so
>More one-time villains like Yuga, Majora and Zant exist

Its not normal for a world to be threatened like 20 times by various mad leaders with unnatural powers.

Demise cursed the world with strong villains.

SS and BotW have the same writer, that's pretty much the reason why the story was ass and forced Zelda as the waifu.

ok boomer

the worst part about BOTW's story is that it can't even be consistent with SS despite the Fujibayashi directing both and even writing SS
>Guardians and Divine Beasts were created by the Sheikah to protect Hyrule against Calamity Ganon
>the tech itself only existed in the pre-Skyward Hyrule era, which is before Ganon even existed
>couldn't have been built after SS or after Ganon first appeared since the Sheikah were scattered and reduced to extremely scarce numbers after Ocarina and the technology for the beasts was buried and forgotten about before Skyward
BOTW's plot and lore exists within its own bubble

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>the tech itself only existed in the pre-Skyward Hyrule era, which is before Ganon even existed

???

Source

the concept art for BOTW made me hate the final product.it had so much potential

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>ganon is first

vaat is first minish cap is 2nd after SS in the shitty timeline

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This looks like something that could exist in TP or MM. BotW's enemies looked too squeaky clean imo.

Also why the fuck do Rito and Zora exist at the same time? Aren't the Rito what remained of the Zora after Hyrule was flooded? Weren't they transformed into bird people by Hylia? How are there fish and birds at the same time.

100% the historia was a mistake. Specific games have direct connections is fine, but trying to connect all of them together is a fucking joke.

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>actually the retarded fans ruined it by demanding shit like that to be made canon

the only comparable tech is SS's Lanayru robots and technology, and as stated it can't have been post-Skyward since the Sheikah are nearly gone once Ocarina rolls around, and we know pre-SS had Sheikah since Impa exists

I was fine with OoT Link being the Hero's Shade and TP Link's great-grandfather. Plus it gets an added bonus of shitting on that stupid Link is Dead theory.

Yeah, just like the time the Gods stopped him in WW and saved everyone!

...wait...

I'm pretty sure that this and any other plot holes are proof that Nintendo gave up on the timeline and plot of the series. They pretty much just went "fuck it".

After playing SS, it was the best thing to happen to Hyrule unfortunately Zelda's descendants lived.

Isn't that basically what happened in Wind waker though?

Big G's like "Don't worry kids, I'm not going to kill you since that never ends well for any of us, I'm just going to use this triforce to fix everything and then... OH GOD DAMNIT DAPHNES, YOU ARE THE WORST KING EVER!"

>Ganondorf decides to improve the living conditions of the gerudos through science and trade, becoming allies with Hyrule leading to a golden age for his people. Crops, clean water, and culture rather than conflict become commonplace.
>Zelda is able to take up position of the princess and eventually the queen of Hyrule, helping the landa, building better alliances with the other races, using magic to help those in need
>Link becomes the equivalent of a folk tale hero who is as expert in fishing, farming, construction, arms, combat, map making, exploring, etc... Becomes the hero of hyrule through his humanitarian and philanthropic actions.
>throughout the course of the game the curse of the triforce starts to make them revert into their original roles
>natural disasters, draining resources, and the political climate pushes everyone to the edge
>war breaks out between hyrule and the gerudo empire
>player can choose to play as either link or ganon for the final battle and gets a different ending depending on that

>Why is he calamity Ganon?
Why wouldn't he be? Maybe he lost control of Demise's curse or some shit. I don't have any issue with that.
My issue is with Zelda who survives for no reason at the end.

>No Zelda game where Ganondorf is a neutral force loved by his people and Zelda is the one at fault

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Din, nayru and Farore have never lost control of anything in zelda, they just fucked off and stopped giving a damned about the world.
The last time they stopped by to take a personal hand in things their response was basically "nuke everything" except with water.

God could you imagine strolling around at night only to be suddenly greeted by one of these things? The lack of "Oh fuck, oh fuck what the fuck is THAT" moments in BotW made me so upset.

>no zelda game where you don't play as link at all
>you play as somebody who gets sick of all the bullshit in the world and seeks out the triforce
>he must fight and race through selfish rivals who want the triforce for themselves, dangerous trials, and evil creatures created by a king of evil
>at the end, he finally obtains the triforce
>his one wish is for it to be sealed away and forgotten about for all eternity because it's ultimately the root of everybody's problems

Sad days all around.

My kind of meta.

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WW Ganondorf is best Ganondorf.
Or at least, him at his most human.

The point is that he's given in to his evil and inclination towards power, becoming an embodiment of Evil power-- he no longer has an intellect to plan or plot like before, he's just a big force of destruction and hate.
Which is why, ironically, he's able to be defeated because despite being more powerful than ever before that makes him inflexible. It even ends up being why he's destroyed once and for all-- the Dark beast ganon form is ganon throwing away his ability to reincarnate again to focus his energy into one last effort to kill Link and zelda out of hate

Congrats you just described WW

Spoiler: It didn’t work

>this dooms lorule until ALBW

>he has the triforce, that's all you fucking need
lolno

Demise works becuase it explains how no matter what theres some asshole right around the corner.
Whether its vaati onyx and veran ganon himself or some other fuckwaffle.

It makes ganon character even beter because demise always uses the strongest lust for power and ganon has never been topped to the point the he also is basically a curse of his own.

ALBW is what happens if the Triforce is destroyed, not sealed or completely obscured.

>the Dark beast ganon form is ganon throwing away his ability to reincarnate again to focus his energy into one last effort to kill Link and zelda out of hate
That was a translation error. The opposite is actually happening according to the JP version: The Dark Beast formed because Ganon refused to give up on reincarnating after his initial defeat, or something to that effect. This is also why the ending hints that he may still return.

>blames the only game this has nothing to do with
>whines about anime shit in zelda the game with super moves that obliterate everything on screen since snes
You should be mad at zelda 2 dipshit

>vaati is demise
user...

>Now that Ganons just reincarnates, it's all kind of stupid
>never played tp
>thats more rediculous than ganon getting out of the notshadow realm

Nah m8

So were nayru and Din in the oracles games the goddesses slumming as mortals, or just random people with the names of the gods who happen to also be incredibly powerful macguffins?

Every single villain across the games is demise' curse dingus.
Just like every single link is there because of hylia.

>>Now that Ganons just reincarnates, it's all kind of stupid
>>never played tp
Can you explain that user?

I still dont believe the oracles games to be canon with how they are presented in the intro and more.
No one can change my mind either

He lost a children's cardgame, ok?

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probably just a dream too lol

they should've just kept introducing more Triforce pieces like what 2 did with the Triforce of Courage
>Triforce of Faith
>Triforce of Ambition
>Triforce of Charisma
etc

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user is mad that ganon "just reincarnates"
when thats pretty much all he did in TP which started the whole idea of ganon surviving death

>I still dont believe the oracles games to be canon with how they are presented in the intro and more.
I do the same except with FSA.

Wait, Ganon from TP didn't reincarnate tho. That's the same OoT Ganon.

So you forgot the part where he was beheaded before the game starts?

No, just ganondorf. Its why he looks like demise.

Other villains can exist without being tied to demise, free will exists you know.

beheaded? You mean impaled on the gut or did I miss something else?

That's akuma but made of stone.

according to the """lore""" in the games the oracle girls have control over aspects of nature and are all part of a bloodline that exists to keep those aspects balanced, so they only exist to keep shit from going to hell constantly
>the gods can't even leave the realm alone without having physical, mortal copies of themselves running around to keep shit in check
the goddesses are fucking shit at their job

>beheaded
wtf he was stabbed
>before the game starts
wtf when was this

>So you forgot the part where he was beheaded before the game starts?
That didn't happen in TP. He took a sword through the chest but survived through the Triforce of Power.

Nice BKGS

>Beheaded
user, I think you need to go back and rewatch the execution scene. He had a sword jammed through his chest/heart, hence his unhealable white gash in his chest.

Game needs to have multiple endings for it to truly work, depending on how moral you are.
>Goodboi sweetheart ending: Hyrule is turned into a peaceful paradise. However, if conflict does potentially arise, then the world may not be ready to deal with it since they've been too complacent.
>Huge dickhead ending: You become a near all-powerful tyrannical god, conquering the world with an iron fist, similar to Ganon. This places a huge target on you for upcoming heroes and rebels, however, and soon you will be slain by a deus ex machina you have no chance winning over.
>Neutral "Seal the Triforce" ending: The Triforce is now permanently forgotten about, and the world stays the same except nobody's slitting each other's throats over golden cheese.

The curse never once made ganon do anything user. That was all his own will, the curse only empowered the host. They had to be evil to begin with and the curse picking ganon just proves how top tier evil he is.
The curse just uses whoever is the most promising at the time to attack and own hyrule over and over no matter who it may be.

Friendly reminder that Demise's "curse" was just a generic threat and does in no way indicate that he is related to Ganondorf.

yes
akuma knockoff cheapened ganon

an explanation nobody asked for
whats next? they're going to explain why bowser keeps kidnapping peach?

The only time where Ganon has arguably reincarnated would be FSA which is dubious, and BOTW because they refuse to tell us where it falls on the timeline. Every other iteration has been the same dude.

Yep turns out I'm retarded.
Still it was implied that he should have died and the triforce has never once been shown to surpass death before that moment.
Thats when the series really went bananas to me as far as ganon alwasy coming back.

He just survived the stabbing, man. It's not that hard to understand.

Ok, show of hands: Which ganon design do you prefer:

Giant head of red hair ganon, or Blue bald pig with a trident ganon?

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>people have issue with this and not ganon surviving thousands of tons of water on top of him for potentially centuries
His tower wasnt in the bubble either

Breath of the Wild went back to no continuity.

A bunch if retarded fans try to figure out where it is on the timeline but they literally cant because they added everything.

Seething. Go dilate.

Which would have killed anyone else because it was right through the chest like any other cliche cutscene moment

>Implied he should have died

I mean, he was supposed to, but didn’t. He didn’t surpass death, he was just stronger than the executioners thought. Is that really that “bananas”?

Blue Ganon's the best Ganon.

Timelines caused your birth therefore you're wrong

OOT Ganondorf and ALTTP Ganon are the two best designs

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I think the important thing is "Heart".

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could just be a 2nd Ganon that was born later on in the WW timeline though then there's the problem of trying to figure out where the Gerudo came from and why the spirit tracks and tower just disappeared

Fair enough.
Well him getting a sword into the head didnt work either in OoT so I guess POWER is all you need since it went 3d.

I prefer when the boss just exploded

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They did in Odyssey. He wants to marry her. Its a Popeye, Olive Bluto situation now. Maybe because the arcade games were supposed to be Popeye games originally.

I like how Capcom gave him brass knuckles for no reason. That alone has given him more character than Nintendo has throughout the entire series.

So his spine and major blood tubes would be shit
His heart could have been knicked as well

Doesnt matter POWER

>They did in Odyssey. He wants to marry her.
They said that way before odyssey user

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I really didn't mind the lore of SS, if anything I found it pretty cool.
The issues for me were the twitchiness of controls and Fi being a little too obnoxious. I'd love for them to explore more out there concepts for the cyclical nature of the world however.

Those were part of his original design from nintendo though, see capcom just stayed true to the LTTP design.

Fi basically stops by the second half at least but the beginning is pretty awful with her.
I enjoyed the motion controls though, played it legit and emulated in high res managed to learn the style and shank enemies before they could react both time

Zelda is toosimple and fairytale lime theres no good way to expand the story. It's like star wars.

But Zelda is also best the more mysterious it is. The more we learn the worse it gets.

It was a mistake to tie the games together in the first place, but to make a definite origin story? That is far worse. First rule of magic in worldbuilding - you NEVER make an origin point or a defined history. It doesn't matter if there were higher entities predating the characters of SS, these characters specifically have been cemented as origins of the iconic Zelda characters. It is sad because Minish Cap released before SS and it worked really well as an ambiguous folktale origin, something you would expect the 'Legend' of Zelda to originate from.

I think they began to realize their error when making BOTW because it had a stronger value for mystery and distanced itself from timeline nonsense.

Wrong.

Zelda is a retelling of a story told since time began.
The hero and the villain fighting for whats good.

They will ALWAYS put a different spin on it, the fact that spergs have to connect everything is a different problem all together.
I enjoy that zelda doesnt constrain itself and decides to try new takes on the setting.

Ah, I see. It is easy to miss with that piece. I'm actually laughing my ass off imagining Ganon decking Link with that same fist.

>Zelda is a retelling of a story told since time began.
youtube.com/watch?v=RtF80UCgarY

Yeah the controls were fine for the most part, I think people hate all types of motion controls and their autism doesn't allow them to see past it.
My only big gripe with the controls was the complete precision required for the skyward strike proc and how you immediately cancelled it if you twitched slightly. The Wii U zelda minigame in Nintendo Land fixed it

>but to make a definite origin story?
You do know that SS isnt the origin right?
ou have to collect the sword power it up using anciant rituals and face evil just the same as the others.

SS goes out of its way to show how old the world really is despite being an "origin" when its really only the origin of the green tunic

Revali actually look cool and not falco 2

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Theres no way the golden goddesses arent aliens.

Nigger are you brain damaged what does that have to do with what I said.

Trident Ganon Best Ganon

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That's Fallout 3 levels of retarded.

Hell yeah

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what could've been

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You said its better off not knowing.

I said fuck you its better off having ones that try to explain shit in its own setting while others go the opposite direction because forcing the entire franchise into your idea of whats okay is retarded.

>Zelda is a retelling of a story told since time began.
Someone gets it. Connecting the games was the worst thing to happen. Unless they're a direct sequel, it's always ambiguous where and what certain events and characters are placed. Volvagia somewhere else may be referred to as Valoo. That's the point, one small change in the story can make an entirely different legend/game.

>the length of those arms

>they don't know

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>before Ganondorf
>I’m zelda Darth Vader but I’ve also got kind of a Pyramid Head vibe going on

>After Ganondorf
>WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY

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Did Hylia’s introduction ruin these characters

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what timeline BOTW fit in ?

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>no Marin singing, or Malon at all
Shit image

Another reason why Miyamoto is a fucking hack.

Only if youre a brainlet that cant into fantasy.
Hylia and demise are side effects of their meddling

Hylia's introduction ruined every character.

Every Zelda antagonist ultimately comes into conflict with Link and Zelda because Demise cursed them to always come into conflict with an incarnation of his hatred

I consider it is it's own timeline. It's like every zelga game mixed in, minus the dungeons.

i want to fuck din

In the timeline where SS and FSA are the only Zelda games to exist.

Not quite.
Demise cursed hyrule to always be besieged by evil forces. He didnt curse link at all.

Hylia made a wish (curse) that her and link would be reincarnated whenever demises forces reveal themselves.

What was his fucking problem?

>game gets canceled
>have to live in a fucking tree
>have no magical powers
>nobody remembers you
Is there anything worse than being farore?

Dude, go set your head on fire for a minute, and then come back and tell us how you feel about things

>Who is Demise
Basically when the Golden Goddesses left the Triforce as they departed they also created a goddess to protect it named Hylia.
Eventually, a fissure in the earth opened up and a bunch of demons flooded out of it with their King, Demise, seeking to conquer the world. Demise wanted the Triforce and attacked Hylia and the proto-hylians to obtain it.
To protect it and mortals, she took most of the population lifted them into the sky on floating islands while leaving 5 tribes on the surface to keep fighting the demons.

Demise was powerful and fucked her up good, so she basically offed herself to be reincarnated as a human(Zelda) because the Golden Goddesses for whatever dumb plot reason put a failsafe on the triforce it to prevent her from using it as deity, even though she really needed it to beat Demise.

Eventually, the tribes did beat Demise by turning him into a sleeping bag monster and sealing him, but his sword, Ghirahim, also happened to also be a homosexual demon elf who didn't get sealed and worked to free him the moment he was sealed. Hylia, also probably realizing that a living sword was an issue, created a living Sword, of her own, Fi the Goddess Sword, that would eventually be reforged into the Master Sword.

Jump forward in time, Ghirahim kidnaps Zelda, releases Demise, Demise sucks her soul out and probably was gonna rape it or some shit, Link saves the day.
Demise while being defeated basically makes a speech about how his hatred for Hylia is so strong that it would return and bind Hylia and Link's soul to it in a repeating cycle of conflict until he basically won.
What this implies is when Ganondarf was born, he inherited Demise's last will and his ambition for power and Link and Zeldas involvement were a result of it whether he knew it or not.

if the three goddesses created the world and all life on it doesn't that mean they created the demons too

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Yes.
Hylia and demise were side effects of creating the world and its inhabitants.

One of light and prosperity the other darkness and destruction.
The balance to maintain this worlds ability to keep pushing out unrelated games

Din made the earth, so she probably made the demons by mistake. They'll never go into detail about it, but Demise is probably an incarnation of Din's dark side, which is probably why Ganondorf is always roped in the Triforce of Power.

>Zelda universe is overseen by 3 all powerful lolis

No wonder shit gets so fucked in Hyrule.

Those are oracles, not the actual Goddesses.

Common misconception, those are oracles of the Goddess, not what they look like.

SURE, blame the dark skinned goddess!
Racist.

Where does the Fierce Deity fit in?
Have they even attempted to explain him?

Why do people keep asking for a plot heavy Zelda game? It's never going to happen, the stories of every game are just redoes and expansions of the original game's premise.

>despite making up only 33% of the goddesses, Din is responsible for over 50% of the problems in Hyrule! Kooloo limpah!

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everything from Termina is ignored save for Majora's Mask itself which is just brought back for cheap references and Tingle who was upgraded from being a random Terminian to a recurring character

Termina is an alternate reality.

type in Zelda characters on Google and this would count as a Zelda boss

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He’s just a demon sealed in a mask. Same as Majora, but FD seems to respect you enough to lend you his power if you help everyone in Termina

>only 50% of the problems
What are the other 50%?

Mara is NOT ridiculous
(S)he is a pillar of the community, rising above us all to shower us with inspiration.

Vaati and all those other times when Ganon didn't have the Triforce of Power

Worshipers of Farore who bring crime with them as they migrate into the wealthy lands of Nayru.

Urban violence and the manipulations of the (((((Deku Scrubs)))))

It's criminal honestly. This is such a good angle to take.

Tingle.
He DID have skulls in that prison cell with him.

Fucking Garos, take off the fucking cloaks this is Hyrule not your backwater homeland.

Name one Nintendo first party game that has a good story.

Thousand year door.

I want to say OOT but I feel like years of sequels retroactively worsen its story by adding on a bunch of 'lore' that didn't need to be there

Kirby

Kid Icarus: Uprising

Twilight Princess

Unironically Metroid Other M

GET OUT.

>an explanation nobody asked for
Skyward Sword in a nutshell. Story AND Gameplay

After all, the shit people were asking for was in Hyrule Historia and even then people bitched over the "Answers".

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>Zelda lore

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did he died

It's how you weed out the fucks who don't give a shit about the games.

At least things settled down a bit. I feel that the release of Hyrule Historia and the definitive timeline killed a lot of the debates. I remember the bloodbaths over simple stuff like a game's placement in the canon.

Main timeline
OoT -> LttP -> Zelda I -> Zelda II
Side stories
everything else.

>I feel that the release of Hyrule Historia and the definitive timeline killed a lot of the debates.
It did while at the same time brought up some questions regarding the placement of some titles like the Oracles and FSA.

>Main universe
OOT/MM
ALTTP
Oracles/LA
Zelda 1
Zelda 2
>Toon universe
Toon games and ALBW
>Hylia universe
SS
TP
BOTW

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>including TP in Hylia verse when there was no mention of her
That makes no sense.

City in the Sky connection to Skyloft

Isn't that the whole point of Zant? He is a goofy self entitled asshole that can't keep composer and over inflates his ego. He was a little pissy brat that thanks to ganondorf he was able to gain power and become the usurper king but he has zero qualities of a ruler. He tries to act all high and mighty but once you beat his ass and his mask comes off you see what he is really like. There is a reason he wasn't chosen for the throne after all. Saying all that I kinda like how Zant turned out, there isn't another Zelda villain like him

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TP was made before the creation of SS and the City in the Sky is that., a city in the sky. Plus the game puts emphasis on the GG trio then Hylia.

Ganondorf ruined himself in TP before Demise was introduced

>gets fucked into the Twilight Realm
>uses Zant to escape the Twilight Realm
>meets Link for the first time in Hyrule Castle
>Link fucks up Ganondorf in 4 different fight scenarios one after another
>dies like a bitch

Compare him to other Ganondorfs he had the worst build up and was anti climatic as fuck. Well, so was Demise showing up as the LOL WUT pear 3 times. Both OoT and WW he shows up early and tells Link "don't fuck with me" "I'm bad shit". So Link has to back the fuck off for now until he can gain whatever power he needs. In TP Link is like "who the fuck is this guy?" Of course Dark Beast Ganon from BotW was the shittiest boss fight of all time

Fucking this.

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Zelda continuity pretty much ate itself after this game so who knows.

>Rito and Zoras because fuck logic

This thread only proved to me that anti-timelinefags are more annoying than people who accept a timeline.

Bro you just described SMT

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>why the fuck do humans and chimps exist at the same time if humans evolved from chimps?

The entire Mother franchise.

I mean, that was always a damn good question.

The Rito were Zoras forced to evolve because the flooding prevented them from returning to Hyrule.

I bet the little fag knew about it, he just wanted to shit post. Botw doesn't care about the canon one bit. It's pretty much an anomaly, it's own branch of the timeline.

As opposed to what. Ganondorf is still an asshole. It's better than Wind Waker trying to pretend he's suddenly a sympathetic character when he hasn't shown a single instance of it. All he did with Hyrule was stroke his fat cock all over it and enslave his people while leaving them in their desert shithole. And suddenly the game wanted to convince you that he loved it?

It's better to just rank alongside Hyrule Warriors and Crossbow Training, because Aonuma clearly was looking for a way to get back at the fans.

There are multiple reincarnations of Ganondorf just as there's multiple of Zelda and Link.

No it isn't. It's literally the same guy. Yes even the pig.

There is nothing in the games released prior to Wind Waker that supports this. Ganon always broke his seal or was resurrected.

Because they didn't you fucking idiot

Some guy named Ganondorf got possesed by Ganon in Four Sowrds Adventures. Seems a little suss

I never understood the Dark Souls comparison, where are the similarities? I see none, especially not in terms of gameplay.

>Demise was a waste
Demise is fine. But making Demise practically Ganondorf just undermines both Demise and Ganondorf.
Seriously. Ganon is a very effective and useful and they could very well keep using it. But they should be super careful with whatever they do with Ganondorf, and should probably put him to rest to be honest and just leave him be as the iconic OoT villain.

you lorefags dont know when to give up on a lost cause do you?
Sad!

>lost cause
Timelinefags are the only one reeeing here.

Hylia/Goddess of Time has always been a higher power than the three elemental goddesses.

the overall structure of the first game is similar to ALTTP with how it goes
>linear tutorial
>non-linear first half
>linear intermission
>larger non-linear 2nd half
>linear conclusion
you could also argue the combat is similar but aside from lock-on targeting there's no other similarities. Souls prioritizes weapon variety while Zelda prioritizes maneuverability

>a higher power than the three elemental goddesses.
The fuck? The goddesses are the ones who gave power in the first place, and Hylia loses her power as time went on.

timelinefags are lorefags and they havent given up on a lost cause. the 3 branches timeline is bullshit and its existence and unironic pushing as being legit should have told these dumbasses they were wasting their time long ago. furthermore nintendo straight up says nonsense like botw is a gorillion years in the future just to throw timelinefags off the fucking nonexistent trail. the timeline literally doesnt matter so give the fuck up and stop caring already. nintendo isnt carefully crafting a history, theyre just making games with vaguely related plots amd youre borderline schizophrenic paranoid for trying to link them post-historia

The statues in Wind Waker and Twilight Pirncess say that they aren't lovecraftian horrors and actually do resemble something female.

>But nobody ever saw the goddesses as they left Hyrule after creating it!
>Forgetting the light spirits who actually mention having talked to them

Who the fuck even is the Goddess of Time? It's one of those weird bullshit things that only exists in MM to justify it's time travel mechanic but this entity is never mentioned again

Game where he remains solely as Ganon but is given a deep character arc and backstory when? I want to see a giant pig monster discuss philosophy.

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>lost cause
The only lost cause are the fags complaining about a timeline. This post was typed out by a lost cause.

Nintendo clearly wishes they could backpedal on "Ganon" and replace him wholesale with Ganondorf, and almost did in OoT. They keep reinventing the "pig" appearance as different things, BotW taking this to rock bottom. Honestly, they really should have ditched it and pretended it never happened. Pig Ganon is just Bowser without a personality.

Calamity Ganon did. Not gonna lie, the story is easily the weakest part of BOTW, and it's my favorite zelda.

>Pig Ganon is just Bowser without a personality
Mario was made to be pretty light hearted early on, Ganon was intended to be a genuine threat even as the series continued. As they decided he needed more of a character they thought giving him a human appearance would make people emphasis with him more. Sadly the idea of a giant monster actually having a personality is just too weird fpr some reason for a lot of people.

why was shadow link such a significant figure in link's adventure

These Ritos are descendant of the people of skyloft who started to fuck their birds after SS

Because it's plot is from a time before Zelda found its stride. They realized that they could copy a few elements from Mario, like a constant villain, so the formula became a bit more streamlined beginning with alttp.

And a lot of people have bad taste. I like your idea, I'm just not sure if Pig Ganon can really work like that anymore. He's either too goofy looking or such a monstrous demon that he barely looks like a pig.

go back to twitter dobson

Ganon is just a silly endboss though. Literally just King of da Moblins (Which was repurposed into a similar character in the Oracle games). AlttP tried to make him halfway threatening with the triforce behind him but by WInd Waker it became obvious that people were more impressed by Ganondorf than the pig.

Though that might have been the character designers fault. Look at Ocarina ganondorf. He looks way too chad to be a greedy "pig"

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At the tail end after Hyrule warriors.

>Ganon is just a silly endboss though
I think it's more that people couldn't tell what exactly he was.

In an unofficial guide book which had illustrations for all the enemies THIS was how they drew Ganon. Most people saw it was orc like and that's it.

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To add to this, when the game released outside the US and had a proper release, Zelda 1 didn't receive a cartridge release in Jaoan until years later, Nintendo decided to actually show a glimpse of him in the manual just so players wouldn't be baffled at just what tbe fuck he was.

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It was alright. Really good soundtrack.

Fucking Christ, had this been his design I probably would have shit myself seeing him in ALttP.

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Ganondorf didn't HAVE a character.

Well, outside of WW.

This would be great