Which one was the better game?

Nioh gives you freedom to do what you want, Sekiro doesn't, but some people like it more restrictive. Pick your poison.

Combat wise nioh is way better, many builds, many weapons, lot of combots

Sekiro for level design

>Sekiro's bosses are generally all good to great
Nah, at least a good 1/3 of them are either gimmicky or are thrown at you with some trashmobs horde, making them either piss easy if you got a special item and/or strategy or a total chore if you try to play like the combat system actually want you too.

Owl guy, Genichiro and Sword Saint are truly great, but the rest is pretty fucking bland in comparison.

>t. onimusha fag

Not saying much when the levels are all slightly tweaked reskins of previously used assets (also literal re-used levels through sub-missions and twilight missions), the enemies are the same few yokai or humans sprinkled throughout the map, and the bosses are by and large mostly human enemies with a basic weapon moveset + Living Weapon special attacks
Corrupted monk is great, O-rin is also great if we can count minibosses

Can you even jump in Nioh? I really can't remember. Unpopular opinion, I really like the loot system because of al lthe blacksmith option you've got.

>Can you even jump in Nioh?
No

you can "jump" it's built into some move sets for weapons but there's no dedicated jump button

There's no dedicated jump button, but some skills have jumping components to them. Personally, I like how Nioh is a proper action game that's more grounded than others. Games like DMC, MGR and Bayo seem to think that you can only make fun combat if you add airtime combat, which is fine but kinda repetitive.

Any reason not to just roll Katana, and Axe for bosses?

You are absolutely kidding yourself if you don't pick Nioh.

>Multiple skills at once, compared to Sekiro's pathetic 1 skill at a time
>Magic and Ninjutsu much more interesting and varied than in Sekiro
>Weapon variety
>Armor variety
>Optional skins
>Optional multiplayer
>Ki-pulse system
>Stance system
>Exploration is rewarded with proper items, not with useless junk like in Sekiro
>Nioh knows that's it's an action game first and thus let's you replay levels anytime you want
>Story doesn't pretend to be some deep shit, just goofy fun
>Near infinite replayability
>Incredible pre- and post-game support

Dual swords are good for blocking, tonfas the same but more focused on ki damage, odachi is good against blocking humans with long range, kusarigama is more versatile than sword with lots of hits to build up status effect, and the spear is just plain fun with moves that chain between stances pretty well because of the differences of range.

Nioh by a good margin. Quite like sekiro, but it's missing something that keeps you coming back. Don't see it surpassing nioh unless it adds at least three substantial dlc's. Liked nioh's combat more too.

Ape is great, and Corrupted Monk is too if you don't cheese him. There's also a handful of minibosses which are fun to fight, albeit they are pretty generic

>Nioh knows it’s an action game first by locking difficulty behind 3 playthroughs, spending tremendous amount of focus on a shitty loot system, and by locking skills behind skill points

Not following you there

>all 6 fans of Nioh try argue the game is replay-able

Attached: C6ED489A-57D9-442A-A876-D18E083421D1.jpg (390x398, 135K)

Have sex

>by locking difficulty behind 3 playthroughs
>spending tremendous amount of focus on a shitty loot system
You only explore if you have trouble with the bosses in Nioh, you can use that to spend less time on the loot system
>and by locking skills behind skill points
Just like every action game...?

thank you for reminding me what truly matters in life

Attached: 1558491761533.jpg (742x1115, 63K)

Yeah it's not like other action games like DMC, Bayonetta, God Hand, Metal Gear Rising, Ninja Gaiden, or Shinobi all lock additional difficulties behind multiple playthroughs. Oh wait they do. And most of them feature skill upgrades that you have to buy with some sort of points, be it red orbs in DMC or money in God Hand. Your only "point" is the loot system but again, you can easily play through the hardest difficulty of Nioh by just picking the weapon with the biggest number on it, you don't actually HAVE to minmax.

There's nothing inherently wrong with locking skills, literally every action game does it. Nioh has replayability to an extent, but grinding for stronger loot and going through the same levels with few differences isn't satisfying unless you're an 80 IQ brainlet that plays schlock like The Division to see big numbers.

I'm still waiting on someone to justify or explain the dual boss sub missiions

>you can easily play through the hardest difficulty of Nioh by just picking the weapon with the biggest number on it, you don't actually HAVE to minmax.

someone tell this to that faggot, Pat.

They're optional "what ifs", nothing more to that.

as much as I loved nioh, sekiro is the far superior game

I wish I could finish Nioh but I'm so bored of fighting the same 5 enemies in caves over and over again

On one hand I have more fun with nioh combat but I dread finishing a mission and going through all the garbage I picked up to decide what do i sell and what do i keep.

Imagine actually defending the abhorrently bad optional bosses in Sekiro, like the Headless or Shichimen. Also Nioh is always blamed for reciclyng but Sekiro is even worse.

Nioh's ladies can give weaker men serious yellow fever

>Just don't play the game, bro
Not a good argument.
pic related
And even the most delusional fanboy would admit Nioh is fucking awful for recycling content. Sub missions and twilight missions are all there to pad content using the same maps over and over. The grassy field level is used at least 10 times.
I actually like Nioh, I've been playing it a ton lately, but its fanbase consists of some of the most desperately insecure people alive.

Attached: 1559239916305.png (760x540, 349K)

sekiro has tighter gameplay
nioh has variety
nioh with sekiro gameplay would be a fucking masterpiece

can someone explain the have sex and incel shit i just started seeing it randoming like onions

I'm not a big fan of Nioh's loot but despite that, I enjoyed it a lot more than I did Sekiro. It helps that I like the historical fiction angle.

Attached: Nioh1.jpg (627x353, 45K)

Nioh is cool but the boss design is terrible for like 80% of them.

Maybe if you really love Ninja Gaiden bosses but wish you could play against them in Onimusha.

How can Niohfags possibly defend this?

Attached: 1559694321213.png (1484x6527, 382K)

Sekiro by a mile

I enjoyed Nioh but the gamr is heavily flawed

Tranny discorders started spamming it like that one rise up gamers shit and it somehow sticked.

>just force yourself to do the thing that the game explicitely tells you what it is in details and that it's optional, bro
I imagine you're the same kind of person who complains about games having different difficulty levels or options like speed modes or slow modes "because my autistic brain tells me I HAVE to play them"

Shichimen is decent enough I would say

>counting literal who NPCs that look the same and die in 1 hit as unique when there's actually multiples of them

>sekiro has tighter gameplay
Restrictive gameplay is not tighter gameplay, the jump feels awful in Sekiro sometimes and the parry is very lenient

Nioh honestly.
Sekiro is just kinda eh, visually stunning but gameplay is not spectacular.

Nioh was better on paper, but Sekiro had more soul

Do I really have to post this again?

Attached: fixed_list.png (1244x2011, 360K)

Both lists include reskins too. So nioh's actual variety is even tinier.
>2 lesser umibozu reskins
>1 kappa reskin
>1 one-eyed oni reskin
>amrita fiend is basically a yoki
The only thing really missing is the human enemy types since they are pretty different depending on what weapon they use but even then that's a stretch for content.
What's wrong with going for full completion? If a game has a poorly designed optional section is it wrong to criticize it? That's like saying you can't criticize the "Hell" level in Cave Story because it's optional.

Nioh is basically variety for variety's sake which is a mindset I will personally never understand. I don't see the appeal in chopping up the same half dozen standard mobs with a slightly stronger r1. Sekiro is a fresher, more realized game on almost all fronts.

We already did this song and dance months ago where we all learned Nioh has about 80 different enemies in total.

Good joke, user. Nioh had like 10 enemy types for the whole game and I'm not even exagerating.

>What's wrong with going for full completion?
Nothing wrong with that. That is, unless you're forcing yourself to do something for imaginary gamer points. Then it's just autism.
>If a game has a poorly designed optional section is it wrong to criticize it?
How is optional dual boss fights poorly designed if they tell you explicitely that it's optional, and a dual boss fight, before you begin the mission?

I agree with that, the core mechanics of Nioh are very fun and fast paced which I love but eventually the RPG side kidna takes over and you end up one shotting things so much you can't even use the combat mechanics. Fortunately from what I played in the Nioh 2 Alpha they seem to have balanced it more, I was actually able to do full combos and utilize the Ki Pulse effectively without feeling too overpowered or under powered.

On the subject of difficulty modes, I kind of feel like Nioh makes some wrong decisions there. There's already so much "now fight a harder version of this guy" and "fight this guy and this guy" post-game content that the harder difficulty almost feels redundant, or at the very least you feel like you've had your fill I honestly didn't even touch NG+ and I got the Platinum. It's a very different beast than say DMC. Maybe this is just me though.

Nioh has a shitty loot system that is unnecessary when it's combat mechanics are deep and well rounded but I'll still take it over Sekiro's shallow bullshit of mashing R1 and L1 and occasionally hitting jump

Attached: askyourmom.png (410x453, 208K)

The areas get boring too. It's always the same ones over and over. Sometime you get to play it in reverse, though!

>I don't see the appeal in chopping up the same half dozen standard mobs with a slightly stronger r1.
So why are you bringing up Sekiro?

But the best girl in that game is far from being asian

>Nothing wrong with that.
OK, glad we agree.
>How is optional dual boss fights poorly designed if they tell you explicitely that it's optional, and a dual boss fight, before you begin the mission?
We're going in circles. Your suggestion is to avoid the missions rather than criticize them, which doesn't really make sense to me.
The fights are poorly designed because Nioh's bosses are not designed for 2-on-1 and regularly attack through each other and are liable to stunlock you, making running around in circles waiting for openings the dominant strategy (slightly alleviated on parryable bosses). This sucks because it reduces a game with interesting combat mechanics to the simplicity of Dark Souls or worse. Fighting unlocked is much more difficult in this game than Dark Souls games because of the slower turn rate and generally much faster combat so juggling lock-on also leads to camera issues.

Attached: 1559336403710.webm (720x405, 1.33M)

Maria is a cunt. A hyperarmor having, one shotting cunt.

The base damage is too high but at least you never have to build for that one shot style. It's stupid that wooden weapons are so hard to get when they go some way towards fixing the game. I'm not so sure 2 has brought the damage down enough however.

Oh, so like Isshin?

Isshin is slow as shit in his hyperarmor phases and doesn't instantly grab you if you make the mistake of being too close to him

>paralyses you

Attached: Nioh_Hino_Enma_Concept_Art.jpg (3411x3070, 581K)

Bloodborne.

This.
Nioh is a damn good game on its own, though. Hype for 2.

>FROM fans make fun of Nioh for having no enemies, reused bosses and samey areas for two years
>Sekiro comes out and has the same problems but with a worse combat system and dismal character progression even by action game standards
>they praise it, absolute Sekino

Joggin' Noggin' +5

>Nioh has a shitty loot system that is unnecessary
I wouldn't call it unnecessary but clunky. They obviously wanted to have combat design with "infinite options", but since they could only do so much with weapon skills, they tried to create build diversity via gear. I like having stuff where I have a set with stamina cost reduction so I can attack nonstop, or sets with bonus run speed or 100% ranged damage reduction, but I do feel like each individual piece of gear could have its random stats cut by half. It's sortof improved in Nioh 2, with every piece of gear having innate stats to them, similar to how Raikiri in Nioh 1 had innate Change attack spirit and Lightning damage, but it could be improved further.

>Your suggestion is to avoid the missions rather than criticize them
You can't criticize something that you never cared about the premise of in the first place. It's like criticizing Fortnite for being a battle royale game because you don't care about battle royale games. And in the case of Nioh, especially if it's optional, in a game built around liberty to do whatever you want with the combat. That liberty is exemplified even more with the way NG+ works, where you're free to choose which missions you want to do to progress through it. You can use stunning or slowing spells to counter one of the two bosses, or in certain cases like Nobunaga and Yuki-Onna, or Muneshige and Honda, you either have a melee + ranged guy, or a fast guy + slow guy, but unlike other games, it's still up to you to decide if you want to do that or not. I wouldn't play Nioh if you wanted the game to be as restrictive as you want it to be.

>telegraphs every paralyze shot with a loud "OOOOH"

Multiple enemies having attacks that weave between each other is practically the basic state of a group encounter and what makes them interesting and different. That doesn't mean the bosses aren't designed for it at all. If you look at the options you have you'll find there's far more you can do than just wait for the stars to align, and you can take advantage of far more openings and create them yourself. It makes you have to think more about how to apply the mechanics to a wildly variable situation.

That bitch was my git gud moment for Nioh. Killing her felt great and I got a good feel for the game's dodging framing after that.

>I wouldn't play Nioh if you wanted the game to be as restrictive as you want it to be.
if the game was as restrictive as you want it to be*

Sekiro was more fun, and more memorable.

I appreciate you actually answering but it doesn't address the problems I talked about.
If there are situations which provide you no options like in the Nobu + Yuki-onna fight then I'd say the fights are not designed for 2 on 1. There are a great deal of spell/attack combinations which you cannot deal with at the same time. You could counter that by talking about spacing, but many enemies give you no room. Nobunaga in particular literally just moves to wherever you are within a second.
I don't really understand what else you're actually meant to do to "create openings", especially when a lot of these bosses have access to Living Weapon and the hyperarmor that provides.
For the record, the Muneshige dual fight was not difficult at all and Honda does stay back reasonably well. I have way more issues with the Nobu/yuki-onna one (ESPECIALLY this one) and the Date retainers where I just ran around waiting for them to mid/high stance so I could parry them over and over again.
Lastly I did all of these about 50 levels under recommended spec so I'm bitching a lot more than is normal, but I do still think the fights did not have a lot of thought put into them.

I think the loot is mostly alright but a few effects are much too high, and they could stand to remove quite a few of them, mainly the overly specific and restrictive ones like damage vs enemies and specific skill damage, and the overly basic ones that outclass others too much. They gotta focus on that sweetspot that they have a bunch of already. I wouldn't mind them toning down the variability in the values a little too, for inheritables in particular.

I had more fun with Sekiro than I did with all of the souls games plus Nioh

I don't really care for Sekiro, but it is the superior game.

Of all the duos, that's the one with both of them in a huge arena, being quite slow and short ranged to attack outside of even slower widely telegraphed projectiles, and Nobunaga having to stop to reactivate Living Weapon after burning his own Ki and Yuki-onna having yokai Ki to make her easily interrupted and refill your own LW if need be. It's ultimately similar to the Two Kings but you have far more leeway. The Ki system is your main ally.

Are you still Irish Geralt in Nioh 2?

You say that like its a bad thing

I did the fight, but probably the wrong way since I targeted Yuki-Onna first. My mindset was that she has pretty much all of the dangerous one-shot attacks so I had better get rid of her first. Trying to dodge the spinning naginata while avoiding Nobunaga jumping up my asshole was the most stressful thing I've ever done
Also I don't use living weapon ever because I think it's really gay

It has character creation now, though the transformation option is still in.

Sekiro.

>add sekiro's vertical movement to Nioh (tenchu)
>quality/graphics from sekiro to nioh
>swap out Nioh's level design with Sekiro's
>remove diablo loot system on 1st playthrough, only unlocked in post-game content, ala bloodborne w/chalice dungeons except it unlocks for the entirety of ng+ and not limited to a small slice of the game

>create the ultimate masterpiece

Too bad Nioh 2 is just a copy pasta of Nioh 1 instead of trying to evolve a solid foundation.

This. They didn't even try to evolve the concept.

There's valid reasons for targeting either of them I'd say. Yuki-onna has more common space control and is a bit easier to wear down and fully capitalize on as a yokai but she gets her potentially most dangerous move at half health, while Nobunaga flies around a bit when she walks and can be headshot and parried outside LW. LW is indeed pretty gay but it's still something available to mention.

A big source of difficulty was that I could barely get in enough hits to ki break yuki maybe once a fight. And as soon as I moved in to capitalize Nobunaga would swooce right in and one-shot me with a melee combo.
Worth mentioning about Nioh in general, not just dual bosses but all bosses--I hate how an extremely tough fight can suddenly become the easiest thing in the world if you have a higher level/more damage. It always feels like there's no inbetween. The only boss I felt actually ended up providing a decent, fair challenge without being lol1shots was Sanada Yukimura.

Axes is mostly garbage, howerver most weapons have a "that one build" that allows them to shit on everything

Nioh already has a solid foundation
and no your room temperature IQ excuse "i dun like da loot" isn't an argument

Combat is fun, I'll give you that. The rest is abysmal. There's like half a dozen enemy types and the areas are re-used over and over and over (but in reverse this time!)

It really makes me realize how much Souls world makes the game.

Nioh makes up for with the fact that you're not playing a shit game like dark souls.

>Exploration is rewarded with proper items, not with useless junk like in Sekiro
That's bullshit, the only reason to explore is finding samurai locks, everything else is useless
>Story doesn't pretend to be some deep shit, just goofy fun
More like the story doesn't exist until the DLCs
>Near infinite replayability
Bullshit, the game gets very repetitive with it's tiny amount of enemies and locations
>Incredible pre- and post-game support
If you count DLCs then yeah they were pretty good (although the new difficulties were a shitty way to pad playtime), outside of them no

I agree with the rest tho

>the transformation option is still in.

I'm not complaining but why was this a thing again?

I don't know but I fucking wish the girls didn't still use the male skeletal animations.

You should be making more use of high Ki damage skills and clearing yokai pools as soon as possible then, once a fight is really low unless she's dying too fast herself. Nobunaga's flight has a solid landing delay before he can act again and using lower stances with dashing and dodge attacks help keep you safe, though he shouldn't really be oneshotting you perhaps even in light armour, but you should have Quickchange on if you have light armour. Everyone's damage in the game is excessive by default and you can blame the Beta for that, but you still have a ton of options for reducing it, evading it or attacking safely. Plus you can grab a wooden sword, slap on Weaken Melee Weapons and level things out to an extent.

So that I can play as the cute blacksmith girl

The other characters were pretty cool and it's a nice little idea?

Fair. More games should do cool shit like that if it's fun.

This is what I was using at the time, so yes to light armor. My points are mostly in Odachi which is a bit slow and not great for ki reduction with my skills. I don't know what quickchange is though, is that the ninjutsu that lets you come back after dying?

Attached: nioh_2019_06_02_15_02_31_331.jpg (2560x1440, 2.09M)

Dks and BB levels have a nasty habit of just being set pieces you run past rather than actual arenas as well as padding it's enemy "variety" by having one unique enemy appear in one hall way and no where else

Only From would be retarded enough to make an action game entirely about pressing R1 and L1 in the right rhythm with the occasional jump or mikiri. Tools and special moves? All trash. Movement? Basically doesn't even matter, you can beat almost every boss standing perfectly still.

I love Sekiro's combat but movement needs to be buffed big time

a thousand times nioh

Nioh's system is so flexible you can break it.

I played Nioh for over 400 hours and I can certainly say it's Sekiro

Yes it is. No one should ever be without it really, thanks to locks and how easy to include everything is.You can also use attack debuffs like Devigorate talismans or wind but Nobunaga's elemental defences change based on his mode. Weaken Melee Weapons works on all but maybe four enemies in the game though, including bosses. Odachi can make up for it's speed with range and it's Break stat is op but Tail Strike is a bit short so you have to get used to using it while staying mobile. You might want some more points in Spirit for the passives.