Anyone who likes Final Fantasy X and hates Final Fantasy XIII is a huge hypocrite

OP will never read this and realize anything

>inb4 some faggot comes in to post /the laugh/ and prove that he completely missed the point of that scene

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No, you're just a stupid nigger.
X had better characters
X had better combat
X had better music
X had better story
X had better side content
X had better progression
There are more elements the linearity you brainlet.

Preferred the story and setting of FFX desu. Nice and summer-ish, like a summer adventure that turns into fun and convoluted after a while lol. FFXIII is just your standard melodramatic jrpg that FF is konwn for.

what are your opinions on every Final Fantasy game in one sentence?

So this... is the power... of nostalgia...

>X had better side content
What side content did XIII had? It was all the same content disguised as side content.
Imagine a fighting game that tells you it has 3 modes but all modes are 1vs1 in the same scenarios with the same characters.

This is the power of not having Lightning, Hope or Snow in your game, tranny chaser.

I completed the entire monster arena after one week, and yet I still couldn't be assed to fight Nemesis. 12 million HP? Fuck off. Worst postgame content by far with the grinding involved too.

Breath of Fire 3 is better than [insert Final Fantasy].

Hey, HAAA HAAA HAAA! HAAA HAA HAAA! You want to play some Blitz Ball while I talk about my Abusive Father? HAAA HAAA HAAAAAA!

Childhood is thinking Tidus is a whiny annoying loser.
Adulthood is realizing Tidus is the best Final Fantasy protagonist.

I will insert final fantasy right up your ass.

Cindy better be a recurring character after 15, only good thing to come from it

That's a funny way of spelling Squall.

But FFX is a great game
FFXIII is shit

quick hit + hyper might G + attack reels

are you me

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This right here, love Tidus.

Of course you would, because final fantasy fans are gayer than elton john.

Iiked XIII enough but I love X. You're a moron. XIII is just a straight hallway most of the game. And no X is not that, it has plenty of exploration, if XIII was like that it would be fine. Plus X is just a better game in general.

I'm more a Freddie kinda guy...

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I know but it's just 20 mins of boredom. I just got so burnt out that I just beat the game and moved on.

>she finally starts doing lewd sets and shows tits and ass
>but only after ruining herself with surgery and tattoos
Fuck this world.

Well, you can technically name Squall however you want at the start of the game.

Why are all the girls in X so fuckable?

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I can't help but fucking laugh at his dumb face.

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fireworks, brodah

Dona really doesn't get enough love. Haughty brown woman who acts like a bitch but has a pure heart and is brought low by fate is some 10/10 material and Barthello is a fucking treasure.

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guess i'm a huge hypocrite then. at the very least i hate x-2 as much as xiii-2 tho

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Tidus has a good arc but Zidane's just good all around

Is X-2 worth playing? I bought the HD collection and I loved X but I've heard mixed things about X-2

>Enjoy the dumb, awkward, but loveable characters in FFX compared to the dull ones in FFXIII
>Enjoy the straight up turn-based combat of FFX compared to the awkward mix of active-time battles where you have to switch between modes for characters
>Love the sphere grid
>Love the island aesthetic throughout
>Love how stupid and childish Tidus is compared to the stoicism of Lightning

FFX and FFXIII do share similarities in their linearity and vast amount of time needed before it even opens up slightly. They're both focused on graphics and cinematography over gameplay, environments are hallways for most of the games, and neither are well written. But FFX still offers way more to love for me personally at least. FFXIII felt charmless from second one, where Tidus is being a total dork, signing autographs, sitting in a pool of water with stupid buttrock metal prior to the blitzball match, then gets swept up into a cataclysmic invasion leading into bright tropical island adventures. Immediately, FFX is aesthetically and thematically more interesting and inviting.

FFXIII has a lot of problems going on outside of the similarities that can be found between it and FFX.

Yes. Literally just think of it as an anime spinoff like kill-la-kill and you're golden. The voice actors dont give a fuck either and ham it up for fun too.

X has mostly awful characters and I hate the artstyle, but everything else is pretty good. the turn based battles are awesome and near-perfect for turn based

XIII has some nice character designs but that's literally it. it's trash

The combat is pretty fun. Everything else about it takes a huge shit all over the characters and setting of X but if you don't mind that and just want some brainless jrpg fun it's not bad.

>There's pretty much 1, maybe 2 lewd rule 34 of Dona that doesn't look like shit on the internet
Unjust world

On the topic of linearity:
In FFX you're pushing forward to get the final aeon so you can defeat Sin and end suffering in the world. That's it. That's your goal.

In FFXIII you're...uh...I guess running from a fal'cie on a train who just appeared one day? Oh wait shit you just ran into one and turned into a l'cie...so now you're running from people for being a l'cie? Wait shit nope you're actually running from your dead family members and personal problems that nobody cares about because you introduced them 10 minutes before you started the whole climax of the personal drama arc...and then you're running from this pope dude? Wait no now youre running away from your destiny of killing the pope dude and his superpowered friend. Wait no now you're running right towards orphan for no reason. Wait no now you're saying that you dont want to kill orphan while literally running towards him still.

It's a pretty weak follow-up to FFX. It does a poor job of expanding on the plot and characters, and it goes back to the ATB system rather than refining FFX's combat system. If judged purely on its own merits, though, it's still a decent game.

*Cough*

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FFX has a thematic reason for being linear. you're literally going on a pilgrimage, an established route across the continent to get from point A to point B. and even then, the game still opens up when you get to the calm lands and then further with the airship.

this
in FFX you're going TOWARDS a SINGLE GOAL on the FASTEST PATH POSSIBLE because niggas are dying also you can actually fucking backtrack for the majority of the game
in FFXIII you're running AWAY from *NOTHING IN PARTICULAR PULL SOMETHING OUT OF YOUR ASS EVERY TEN MINUTES*

her face looks really JUST in that picture.

>in FFXIII you're running AWAY from *NOTHING IN PARTICULAR PULL SOMETHING OUT OF YOUR ASS EVERY TEN MINUTES*
If this is your honest opinion, you didn't play the game.

>Game that was good but sent series astray
FFX, RE4
>Game that is the ultimate culmination of badness regarding its series
FF13 1-3, RE6

No hypocrisy here, just you being assmad that your favorite game is shit.

FF13-2 and Lightning Returns were great though.
RE6 Multiplayer is fun as fuck.

>Game that was good but sent series astray

THAT'S the phrase I've been looking for all this time. That perfectly describes Silent Hill 4.

It still FEELS like a Silent Hill game in the same vein as 1-3, but it marks the point where the series stops feeling like that after.

I beat it on both ps3 and PC nigga
it's shit

I agree with you 100%, SH and RE appropriately shared eerie similarities in their arcs.

So did I. It obviously was good enough for you to play it. Twice.

Most FF fans only care about graphics, story and "atmosphere." Not gameplay mechanics. So them hating FFXIII really just comes down to not liking the setting or story. Some dislike the setting and story in X. But the number is far less, because FFX got more marketing and came out during the peak nostalgia period.

I enjoy everything about the game except the retarded puzzles and all the wanky talk about Sin and Fayth and whatever.

Blitzball sucks balls.

But the music and combat are great.

I beat it on ps3 because I don't put shit down. I beat it on PC to sell the cards and get a complete steam achievement library of all FF games. It's shit. 13-2 too. Lightning returns was ok.

The problem with FF13 is you LITERALLY only hold up on the controller till the next fight or cutscene. That's is how you play the game. No joke. No hyperbole. That's the game. FFX is not like that despite also being very linear.

I actually liked the FF13 story and even the combat was decent, but the general gameplay was dogshit and I could never see myself replaying the game and enjoying it.

Is everyone excited?

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Only if it's classic fantasy and not Jpop garbage

>FFX has NPCs, chests, towns, good characters, and other JRPG staples.
Simply having those things doesn't mean it's done well. Chests for example were just placed on the linear path. There's no exploration. You just run into the chest and get an item. This is pretty standard in FF games. So in a sense, most FF games, even the ones with open worlds, are actually linear. Take a game like FFVI. It's got an "open world." But in reality, most areas are blocked by an NPC or fence or something else until the story allows you to go there. So the game is just as linear as FFX until the WoR.

Good characters and towns are entirely subjective as well.

Will it be turnbased?

>Blitzball sucks balls

Once you get a decent team that doesn't fucking suck it's actually pretty fun.

The way the game introduces you to blitzball is the real problem

>hype up this game for hours and hours
>finally get to the big story tournament
>it's your first time playing blitzball and your team fucking sucks
>x-2 might imply winning that match is canon

It's fucking bullshit.

If you get a decent team, which is literally just Brother and the goalie standing outside the arena, the game is still boring. Brother just mowes everyone down and scores over and over until time runs out.

The problem with Blitzball is it's a turn based sports game. One of the dumbest ideas ever. Add to that, that game is just water polo, but underwater. Wow, so unique!

FFXIV could have been the best FF game if it wasn't an MMO. But I guarantee the next game Yoshida makes will be the next SE MMO. Since the plan from the start was to replace FFXIV after 10 years.

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>FFXIV could have been the best FF game if it wasn't an MMO. But I guarantee the next game Yoshida makes will be the next SE MMO. Since the plan from the start was to replace FFXIV after 10 years.

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I enjoy jecht-shot ball.

Ps fuck the Luca goers.

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Imagine being this wrong.

>In terms of 3rd generation MMORPGs, I believe we would need to have something design that is fundamentally different.
I'll believe it when I see it. Every MMO developer in the last decade has claimed their MMO was going to do this. And every single one did the same crap. Plus, Yoshida loves WoW.

They are entry tier jrpgs and aren't that good

I liked both FFX and XIII more than I thought I would. But both games are mediocre.

Wasted potential, the series.

Who cares? XII is the best ff game

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FFXII has the same issue OP was pointing to. It's even worse in many ways.

It's shit

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>the same issue OP was pointing to
Hallway simulator? You're calling FFXII a hallways simulator?

It's FF monster hunter when it comes to maps, idiot.

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Tidus is hyped up as the best player ever that will solely carry the team to victory, and then he's the dude with the worst stats on a team of random ass villagers that have no chance of winning anyway.

>Hallway simulator? You're calling FFXII a hallways simulator?
Yes.

>It's FF monster hunter when it comes to maps, idiot.
Monster Hunter is also linear zones. Linear paths you memorize and run over and over again. You're just proving the point.

Then you're just proving that EVERYTHING is a hallways simulator, faggot. From Goldeneye 64 to Star Ocean 3.

FFX is absolutely a hallway simulator because the zones are REALLY thin, long, and the divergent paths are equally small, thin, and long that simply dead-end. FFXIII is even worse with that, but also at least has a more open zone, so it kind of evens out. FFXII has grids of zone that interact and load and are open and exploratory and you need to find all the nooks and crannies. It's not a hallways simulator, even in the maps that do indeed have longer, thinner zones.

No.

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Nailed it. If there was something I really, really hated in XIII’s plot, it’s that it feels like it has no direction at all. You’re constantly just shoved forward on a linear path, but most of time nothing really tells you why you’re going to where you’re going.

Contrast that to other games in the series, all of them usually have a very clear goal to push forward, with clear motivations. Heck, even the simple old-era FF plots have a better drive forward: for example, IV’s plot is mostly just getting to crystals before Golbez gets them, but what the hell, you know that he’s gonna do something bad with them and stopping him is an important goal on itself.

I get that FF XIII was trying to pull off a plot that tries to show the party as powerless to change their destinies, with ticking death timers and all, until finally getting to the point where they can subvert their master’s intentions. Unfortunately, the plot is executed si badly, that it feels like you’re just running around and going where the Pope wants you just because, well, just because. Especially the finale with Eden and Orphan is terrible at conveying what you’re exactly trying to do and accomplish.

oh fuck off.

>Then you're just proving that EVERYTHING is a hallways simulator, faggot. From Goldeneye 64 to Star Ocean 3.
But not everything is. Dragon Quest and Suikoden for example has more open areas. But more importantly, the freedom to explore those areas. Hell, even Dragon Quest XI, a game that has hallways very similar to FFX/XII/XIII found a way to make those hallways more engaging.

The problem in FFXII is not that it has hallways. But the lack of content and repetitive nature of those hallways. It isn't enough to just have monsters and chests in your path.

>
FFX is absolutely a hallway simulator because the zones are REALLY thin, long, and the divergent paths are equally small, thin, and long that simply dead-end. FFXIII is even worse with that, but also at least has a more open zone, so it kind of evens out. FFXII has grids of zone that interact and load and are open and exploratory and you need to find all the nooks and crannies. It's not a hallways simulator, even in the maps that do indeed have longer, thinner zones.
The sewers, forest, dungeons and etc in FFXII are the same thin, linear areas. The only open parts are a couple deserts. And again, there's nothing to do in that open area but kill monsters/hunts. So it being so open actually becomes a deterrent. It would be better if it was just linear so you could get through it faster.

It’s true that most JRPGs are very linear, at least up until to the point where you get airship or something equivalent. However, it’s still important that the game gives you at least an illusion that you are moving forward in a bigger world, not just a linear gutter. FFX was surprisingly good at this despite being super linear, areas felt connected and there were towns and other populated places to remind you that it’s not just your party vs. monsters.

XIII? Most of the time you’re just running through some random areas without humans in sight (not counting enemy soldiers) and the game leaps around awkwardly with chapter changes. The environments feel just like artificial backdrops, there’s no proper illusion of a greater world.

Most FF games have a good starting premise that falls apart mid game because of a dumb plot twist.

FFXIII did the opposite. The first half the game is a bunch of exposition and story where you have no context. Then the second half the game explains it all. Still just as shit as the other formula, but reversed.

FFX:
>can control all party
>Has classes
>summons are actually useful
>Can control sphere grid movement very early in the game
>Full combat mechanics are open very early in the game
>mini games
>side quests
>can travel back and forth
>towns
>colorful characters
>coherent story
>Well developed set of villains
>Gil is readily available
>purchasing and selling weapons makes sense
>Wide variety of weapons
>Excellent OST
>Interesting story

FFXIII
>Good voice acting (Japanese)
>No backtracking
>No towns
>Shops are sphere
>horrible characters
>villains make no sense
>combat system locked for 2/3 of the game
>2/3 of the game is filled with tutorials
>Excellent music
>no classes
>weapon variety is sparse
>no side quests until chapter 9
>Gran pulse is a giant empty wasteland
>no mini games
>tryhard story that throws around meaningless jargon like falcie, l'cie, etc

ffx is kino

Final Fantasy XIII is pretty much everything that could go wrong with Final Fantasy X did.

>Linearity
>Final Fantasy X has beautiful, varied areas of likes of Besaid beach, Gagazet mountain, weird mushroom hole of Guadosalam and etc. They are cleverly paced out so that you get your grinding, get to know new types of enemies, get new abilities (and not limited to go beyond of what's asked for you currently) and don't take time before plot moves forward
>In Final Fantasy XIII you are only in some attempt ugly sci-fi ass areas that all look the same, the theme park doesn't look any different from a beach and spaceship doesn't look any different from a city. Some areas are flat out said to be used for grinding for hours. For most of the game there are times when game literally will tell you when you can't progress your characters any further.

Tidus and Yuna are most annoying pieces of shit in English dub.

Original Japanese Tidus and Yuna are pretty cool and Tidus's facade of being a confident sports star whereas he's actually a very vulnerable kid with daddy issues is much more believable because in English dub THAT'S THE ONLY MODE TIDUS HAS. Yuna isn't a doormat, she's actually quite confident.

XII is such garbage everyone already forgot about the remaster.

Nonsense. You have cities to visit, tiers to explores, ups downs around, chests, npcs, guilds, monsters, secrets all kinds of stuff in 12, crystals, goal points, waypoints, dude. FFX has literally, only, hallways. Don't compare them as "similar."

By the same token, it seems people are trying to be angry with people liking 7 but disliking 8 (or 9) because they use still images as their "zones" so their zones must be the only thing that they represent and it's hypocrisy to have differing opinions.

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>can travel back and forth
Except after a certain story point, you can no longer go back until you get the airship. And that point is exactly when you learn that there's the Jecht Shot and a few items you missed. No idea why FF fucking does this every game. To sell strategy guides?

>towns
Which are sadly pretty empty. But FF has never been great about exploring towns.

>coherent story
Wow, no. The story has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese. And they just gave up trying at the end.

>Well developed set of villains
No. Seymour is just a big filler villain because they can't reveal what the true villain is until the end. Jecht is interesting, but delayed far too long to be meaningful. Yu Yevon is one of the most bland villains in gaming history. He just sits there wanting to die. Even heals you and helps you kill him. This is also where Yuna's story falls apart. Because it turns out the whole games story was focusing so much on her and her Aeons...and all she has to do is just cast them while Jecht and Tidus do the rest. She's just a game trigger.

I agree with everything else though.

>FFXII has all this content!
And as I've said in my many posts already, simply having stuff doesn't mean it's implemented well. But since I've already described it in great detail and you overlooked it, there's no point saying it again.

>This is also where Yuna's story falls apart
>Jecht and Tidus do the rest

youtu.be/d7M1_gjqqws

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You and I disagree about whether FFXII has its content implemented well. You and I also seem to very specifically disagree about the idea these two final fantasies BOTH have a genuine feel...like walking down hallways.

And we aren't touching about quality of that content.

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>this is my story
>80% of the game is about following Yuna, the pilgrimage, the previous pilgrimage, world building, etc.
It becomes Tidus' story after hey finally reach Zanarkand. Which is why the game opens with that scene outside Zanarkand. Everything that happens before is largely world building or filler. You might like that, but in terms of plot, the story is a LOT of filler. One of the common tenants of writing a story is "start as close to the end as possible." Final Fantasy X does the total opposite.

But Lightning's not a tranny.

Tidus is great, but I agree with , even if Tidus had a character arc that spanned the whole game as opposed to that character.

/thread

X-2 is kinda dumb, but it's basically the world trying to figure out "What do we do now that the giant space whale that defined our whole world is gone?"

The sidequests are better than the main plot, desu, though some of the endings are pretty good. I kinda like the one where Yuna chooses not to magic Tidus back to life.

>the previous pilgrimage

Jecht was awesome, but yeah tidus wanted to go home and this cute girl was going the same way so..

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Lightning is cloud in drag (again)

She's too lithe to be Cloud.

At least, I think she is. Remake Cloud looks skinnier than I imagined.

You can say that about LotR. Story isn't just main events. Story is character interaction, character growth, etc. The stuff you call filler is what drives the narrative. FFX is a character driven story not an event based story.

Cloud successfully passed as a women when he needed to infiltrate a rich man's sex party... Rethink how buff and manly you think cloud is.

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Yuna's story was the whole thing, desu. Even if at the end Tidus and the Aeons did have a better understanding of how to close out the cycle, that doesn't stop this from being a big undertaking on Yuna's part.

>Cloud has a daddy-dom fetish

wew

/thread

It became Tidus's story the moment he got spirited away into Spira. His presence during the pilgrimage greatly influenced the actions of the characters around him, including Yuna. I wouldn't call anything before Zanarkand "filler" due to this. He, himself, is responsible for them going against Yevon which is something that Auron even acknowledges. Since you know, he tried and failed and became a wandering unsent.

The worst part is people who didn't even know about her pre-plastic.
>ended up getting like 750k facebook followers
>immediately starts pumping self with silicon

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I had more fun trying to make Kimahri work as an Overdrive machine than I did anything in XIII

>Nautilus
>literally cant even go there in post-game, no mini-games, nothing

thats because ZA is even easier than IZJS and fucks with the people who actually liked Vanilla with no option.

What if I like 13 and dislike 10?

Step 1 to enjoying the Blitzball grind
>Get Linna on first visit to Macalania Temple
>Profit by Nap shotting the net from Blitzoff

If they do another MMO I hope to fuck it's Ivalice.

Tidus is dogshit. I thought that when I played it at 14 and I think it now at 30. Total trash protag. One of the worst in the series.

FFX at least led to CGI POV porn about Lulu.

I just can't fucking understand how can someone possibly like FFXII.
I am not gonna compare it to any other FF game, by itself, the game is fucking bland, and i thought the zodiac version would change something, but all it did was locking characters behind jobs, and jobs in that game are nothing but "Choose what stat stick you want to kill enemies with"
>Every melee job gets the same technicks
>Weapon balance is fucking atrocious
Magic offers some variety, but holy shit if it is also boring as fuck.
>Black magic fucking sucks most of the time since melee does more damage without any cost whatsoever
>White magic is white magic, but why bother when items are better and do not require casting time
>Green magic is a joke and I do not understand why it was a different branch of magic
>Time magic fucking sucks but it is game breaking thanks to Haste+Berserk
And let's not even begin with how shitty boss fights are.

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Then that's your opinion and you're entitled to it
But you're also wrong

Tidus is even worse than lightning. 13's battle system is more interesting in the post game than quick hit spam and has more depth, both games are boring on rails stories and both have a mostly shitty cast.

>You can say that about LotR.
No you really can't. Because there's no similarity between the two stories besides going on a journey. Your comparison would work if say, 80% of the book focused on a side quest Sam does while Frodo and Aragorn tag along. Then after all that, they finally start the main story to destroy the ring.

>Story is character interaction, character growth, etc.
Yes, which I pointed out. FFX is mostly world building. And world building isn't bad. But the fact that after the beach and Zanarkand, most of the development that you saw becomes meaningless to the main plot. Did it add to the world? Yeah it did. Th world building is really good. But it didn't work in conjunction with the plot.

Things get even worse when you realize, by Auron's own words, he never intended Tidus to meet Yuna or go on a pilgrimage. He's flat out saying that the whole thing is a big side track to getting to his original plan. Which is exactly what they do at the end. The plot is admitting that Yuna's story and the pilgramidge is a big distraction to "Tidus' story."

>The stuff you call filler is what drives the narrative. FFX is a character driven story not an event based story.
Character based stories still have plot. Just look at the mess that is The Last Jedi. It's also a "character based story." Five different character stories at that. However, the underlying plot makes all their stories meaningless. Because they could have avoided doing all of it and reached the same ending. It's much the same in FFX, where if Tidus had not fallen off the Al Bhed ship or got dropped off right at Zanarkand, he would have learned all the same stuff and went off to challenge his father. Never having met Yuna or explored the world. Of course, this would make for a very short and boring game. But it's still a fact within the plot itself.

FUCKING BASED

>It became Tidus's story the moment he got spirited away into Spira.
Not really. It was Yuna's story for most of it.

>His presence during the pilgrimage greatly influenced the actions of the characters around him, including Yuna.
Yes it did. However, the bulk of his influence comes at the beach, where he is finally told about what Yuna is going to do, then talks her out of it. And then again at Zanarkand, where he convinces the team to attack Sin head on.

But all this is 80% into the game. And here's the hard part to swallow. If Tidus had just arrived and learned what he needed to do from Auron and the Spirits, as was Auron's original plan, he wouldn't have needed to go on the pilgrimage or meet Yuna at all. And given his personality (and hate for his father), he would have definitely made the exact same decisions. He would choose to attack Sin and confront his father.

Now, Tidus did influence Yuna a lot. I totally agree. But again, the plot is set up in a way where, by Auron and Jecht's own words, Tidus never needed to meet her.

It's made even worse when you realize the pilgrimage system had multiple teams all doing the same thing. And in the final battle, all a summoner needed to do was cast whatever Aeons they had (any number, don't even need all of them) to weaken Yu Yevon so Tidus and the spirits could finish it off. This further reduces Yuna's impact, since any random summoner could take her place.

This means the whole Yuna/pilgrimage story gets reduced down to world building and a love plot. And not a very good love plot at that.

I can argue every single point you brought up, but I'll mention the two biggest reasons I fucking LOVE Final Fantasy XII:

Setting
Translation

Ivalice is a fantastic setting and the writing team (especially its translation team which is basically one guy) is OUTSTANDING. The English VAs don't fall behind, either. When it comes to Enlish Ivalice, even the Japanese know it's fantastic.

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i have found mah nigga.

>someone spent months making that room super detailed
>couldn't spend 5 minutes putting a searchable trigger on the baskets, pots or display cabinets
>NPCs say nothing of importance
>can't even read the sign
This is the problem I have with most FF games. But FFXII was the absolute worst at it.

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You're not the only ones, user.

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>This further reduces Yuna's impact, since any random summoner could take her place.
Why does someone have to be a chosen one for the story to have impact?

Yes, any random person could. That's how most of life and history works. While any random person could, how many would have? How many would have gone against the teaches of Yu Yevon? Wakka nearly didn't.

>most of the development that you saw becomes meaningless to the main plot. Did it add to the world? Yeah it did. Th world building is really good. But it didn't work in conjunction with the plot.
How does it become meaningless to the plot? The characters would not have made the decision that they did when they met Yunalesca if not for their entire experience up until that point. Wakka/Lulu would not have gone against the church had they not befriended Rikku or seeing the duplicity of the church and found out that the maester were unsent themselves. Yuna would not have gone against the church had she not met Tidus and listened to his perspective when it came to the use to technology and just hearing someone with an outsider perspective.

Read my posts again. I know they're long, but I answered your questions already.

Forgot to add
>However, the underlying plot makes all their stories meaningless. Because they could have avoided doing all of it and reached the same ending
Except you can't for FFX, because the characters aren't going to make the decisions that they do in Zanarkand without seeing the lies and hypocrisies and learning the truth. No summoner (even Yuna's father) decides to say fuck you to Yunalesca, because they believe that's the only way and that Spira deserves its punishment. Yuna says, "no", because Tidus helps her realize that there are other ways and that the system that their world is currently in isn't necessarily the best one (or even a good one).

I'm not a communist or a socialist or whatever, but just look at how rabid people get to defend capitalism or their inability to fathom a society/economic system that isn't capitalist based. Now imagine that this is something that's been ingrained for a thousand years + is religiously based.

Also, keep in mind that they've barely had any summoners defeat Sin in the 1000 years since Sin appeared.

oh god don't tell me you're that guy who insists that 90% of ffx is irrelevant because auron could've just told everyone "yeah everything you think you know about sin and yevon is a lie, just take my word for it"

No you didn't. You said that the plot becomes meaningless because they could have avoided doing all that and gotten the same ending, but you've not stated how. How could they have gotten to the conclusion that Yunalesca is wrong without all the bullshit that happens between Besaid and Bevelle?

I only played Tactics Advance, and almost 100%ed it before someone stole my copy.

i.4cdn.org/wsg/1559870906153.webm

Attached: Card Rule RANDOM.gif (240x180, 2.85M)

>And here's the hard part to swallow. If Tidus had just arrived and learned what he needed to do from Auron and the Spirits, as was Auron's original plan, he wouldn't have needed to go on the pilgrimage or meet Yuna at all. And given his personality (and hate for his father), he would have definitely made the exact same decisions. He would choose to attack Sin and confront his father.
Auron flat out says he never intended Tidus to meet Yuna. Jecht says he expects Tidus to come and defeat him. The spirits tell Tidus what he needs to do. The pilgrimage and Yuna aren't necessary to "Tidus' story." Yuna's only relevance in the end is casting Aeon's on Yu Yevon.

The pilgrimage is world building. It's still the best part of the game. But it becomes superfluous because of the main plot of defeating Sin, Jecht and Yu Yevon.

How would Tidus have fought Jecht? How would Tidus have gotten close to Sin? Auron couldn't even defeat Yunalesca?

How is it wrong? Auron could have told everyone everything from the start. He just chose to hide it all. This was done because, if he had told everyone everything right from the start, their entire journey would have changed. And the writers wanted you to go on the world building tour, not right to Sin.

To add, you do realize that the only reason that they could defeat Sin is because Rikku convinced the Al bhed to help Yuna out, you know her cousin. And the Al bhed using machina is what weakened Sin to a state where they could go inside it and defeat Yu Yevon directly. Now tell me, how would Tidus have done that?

Trading rule DIRECT has spread through the region!
Card rule RANDOM has spread through the region!
>What?
>I said, card rule RANDOM has spread throughout the region!
>...why...you son of a bitch! You no-good damned son of a BITCH!
>No! No!
>YOU
>No!
>SUNUVABITCH!!
>NO!
>YOU'RE LYING TO ME!
>NO NO NO NO!
>YOU'RE LYING TO ME! YOU TOLD ME THIS WAS CARD RULE OPEN!! SHUT YER YAPPER!!
>AAAHH! AAAAAAAAAAHHH! AAHAHAHAHAHA! I'LL GET YOU! I'LL KILL SOMEONE!! I'LL KILL SOMEONE!!! AS GOD AS MY WITNESS! I'LL KILL YOU!!!
>AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, I'LL....!

Yeah, that about sums up the trading card game.

>How is it wrong? Auron could have told everyone everything from the start. He just chose to hide it all
Because no one would have believed him. Go and tell a religious person that God isn't real and that their beliefs are based on lies, and they're not going to believe you. Go tell them that 1000 years ago during the crusades, and no one is going to believe you. They're going to kill you for heresy.

We see in the game how much effort it takes for Wakka to change his view points on the Al bhed even after befriending Rikku. It's not until he directly experiences the lies and corruption from the church that he sees that they're wrong and that the Al bhed aren't bad. You just can't walk up to someone and say, "everything that you're society has believed for a thousand years is wrong".

And even if they did believe him, how would they have defeated Sin? Who at the start of the game is strong enough to defeat Sin? They only defeated Sin because the Al bhed had a weapon to defeat him.

FPBP

>How would Tidus have fought Jecht? How would Tidus have gotten close to Sin? Auron couldn't even defeat Yunalesca?
Those are the things which Tidus needed help with. But, this being an RPG, you gotta realize they set the boss battles and damage levels to fit where you would be in the story. Tidus needs the whole team to help fight Sin not because the plot says so, but because the game designers needed reasons for all the playable characters to have a purpose in combat.

If the story had just been focused on Tidus, they would have created bosses he could face alone.

This is also why Yuna's involvement feels so weak. Because at the end, she's essentially just there to cast Aeon's on Yu Yevon. They wrote in a weak game mechanic to make Yuna seem relevant at the end. When in reality, she became irrelevant to the story after they learned the truth about the church and Yu Yevon and Tidus' story takes over.

What are these problems and strengths?
Not OP, btw.
Final Fantasy and its stillborn of a parent are embarrassing and barely even qualify as video games. Maybe you niggers should try playing one sometime, instead of quibbling about irrelevant shit between one cancerous mass and the other.

i hate all the double digit final fantasies

How so? I would think that limiting every character to 2 jobs rather than having full license board should make the game a lot harder

>If the story had just been focused on Tidus, they would have created bosses he could face alone.
Nowhere in the story is it shown that Tidus could take on Sin. We see an entire army near Luca try to defeat Sin, and they fail badly. The Airship is barely able to defeat Sin. Tidus isn't a powerful character, so I'm not sure what headcanon you're running on.

>This is also why Yuna's involvement feels so weak. Because at the end, she's essentially just there to cast Aeon's on Yu Yevon
No her involvement is not weak. The story establishes many times that the only thing that can defeat Sin as far as anyone is concerned is a summoner summoning a grand/final aeon. No one has any reason (not even Auron) to believe that machina tech can weaken Sin.

Here's something that you keep on neglecting to mention: Auron actually never had a plan on defeating Sin other than knowing that Tidus can slightly lull Jecht.

Tidus was picked up by Rikku and an Al Bhed boat right at the start of the game. And Rikku later tells Yuna that when they first met Tidus, they were headed to Zanarkand. Yet he conveniently falls off the boat. Because you know, the writers wanted him to meet Yuna and do all the pilgrimage stuff. Fantasy plot convenience.

Why?
X is nowhere near the level of restrictive hallway that XIII is.

I didn't care about the linearity, I didn't like how lightning didn't grow as a character.

You're ignoring the point: Yuna is just a summoner. Tidus, the Zanarkand aeon being, is all that mattered.

>How would Tidus have fought Jecht? How would Tidus have gotten close to Sin?
By getting inside the armor that is "Sin." To specifically answer "how" is to beat a hole open. In FFX, that happens 'cause there's some electrical gun mounted to the ship that lops its arm off. They get inside, find Aeon Jecht and tadah.

>Auron couldn't even defeat Yunalesca?
Auron wasn't strong enough.

>you do realize that the only reason that they could defeat Sin is because Rikku convinced the Al bhed to help Yuna out, you know her cousin. And the Al bhed using machina is what weakened Sin to a state where they could go inside it and defeat Yu Yevon directly. Now tell me, how would Tidus have done that?
Tidus could've fucked Rikku. He could have made a deal with Brother. He could have met a blitzballer by the name of T'alli Kockameme who went to school with a guy named Beree Handajob who is now president of a company that deals in underground trading with a Ronso who discovers a secret holy weapon called THOR'S AXE-CRACK which is strong enough to cleave a 7' by 2' slit in Sin's vagina. He could have given Seymour the best blowjob that half-guado has ever gotten in his life, convinced him to get him inside Sin alongside that lunatic and bang. You asking "how" is just asking someone to create another possible story to "how" he physically arrived from point A to point B. It's not ABOUT "how," it's the fact that the INDIVIDUAL aeon thing got to the other aeon thing and killed each other to the point Yu Yevon couldn't possess anything anymore and died thus so did Sin. If you demand a living human be present to kill Yu Yeven, then fine: ANY living human will do.
Yuna becomes superfluous the instant it's realized summoner's and their aeons are pointless.

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You keep on asking "how" when "how" is NOT THE POINT. It doesn't fucking matter how. A writer can come up with ANY how. YOU could come with how. A 5-year-old could write down how. It's NOT the POINT.

The story we got of FFX was Tidus exploring the world of Spira. And it explained HOW Tidus explored the world.......not HOW he killed Sin. If any point of his Spira-tour changed, he still had the ability to kill Sin. The Spira journey was just a story, it wasn't the reasoning or pre-requisite to Sin's destruction.

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Yeah! 10 is awesome but X sucks!

X is a wonderful rpg that bleeds bittersweet Japanese melancholy from every pore. A story of moving on from the past, embracing your heartache and fighting against the world's horror while refusing to turn a blind eye to any of it. The scene towards the end, with Auron's speech against Yunalesca's ideals, is a modernization of Izanagi and Izanami's last interaction, the divine siblings/couple that created Japan and the Japanese in Japanese folklore. When Izanagi discovered that his wife, in death, had become a decomposed monster, he spurned her, and she swore that she would kill 1000 of his children every day. He furiously retorted that he would just make 1500 every day.

13 and 15 just look like cgi gap commercials.

Way to not get (or ignore) my whole point. The strength of Sin and any boss in any RPG is based on what the story needs it to be. You're arguing Sin is too powerful because the story, the one that expects you to have a full team at high level after 35+ hours, says it is. But if the story was just Tidus, it would have made Sin weaker (or given Tidus some super saiyan skill to compensate).

>The story establishes many times that the only thing that can defeat Sin as far as anyone is concerned is a summoner summoning a grand/final aeon.
Yes. But they learn after talking to the Zanarkand spirits what Sin really is and its weakness. If Tidus had gone to Zanarkand before meeting Yuna, as was Auron's original plan, then he would have learned this. And Yuna wouldn't be needed.

>No one has any reason (not even Auron) to believe that machina tech can weaken Sin.
Well, the Al Bhed believed they could. The others just didn't ask their opinion because they're "faithless."

>Here's something that you keep on neglecting to mention: Auron actually never had a plan on defeating Sin other than knowing that Tidus can slightly lull Jecht.
His original plan was for Tidus to come into the "future" (reality) and go to Zanarkand to learn about his father. The fact that he doesn't tell Tidus this before pulling him into the "future" is plot convenience. And the fact that Tidus arrives in a totally different place than Auron is more plot convenience. All of this is of course done so Tidus can meet Yuna and go on the pilgrimage.

Once Auron finally meets up with them, he again had a chance to tell them everything. Would they have not believed him? Maybe. But him being a spirit and having more knowledge about Sin could have also influenced their plans. Might have even set them on the path they ultimately decide to in Zanarkand, just earlier. But of course, they didn't do this because they wanted the bulk of the game to be world building. Which is fine.

>The environments feel just like artificial backdrops
That's the point though Cocoon is artificial.
Everything else you said in regards to XIII is correct

X actually has a good combat system, a sphere grid that allows freedom, and a mostly likeable cast. The only thing it has in common with 13 is being linear.

The only but about "not taking on Sin" being accurate is, yeah, Tidus couldn't break the shell of Sin. The armor surrounding its possessed aeon. Turns out, some ancient mechanical equipment could, just a chop and there goes the arm. Didn't really do much, just got people inside that shell.

You're ignoring what Tidus WAS, though. It's not the fact that Tidus himself was necessarily heroically strong beyond all belief holy shit no one in the universe could compare not even his dad or Auron or a half-god Seymour or the pope or Yu Yevon or thousand-year-old Yunalesca or her husband who first died or Bahamut the aeon etc. etc. Him being "strong" wasn't the point. All that mattered was he get to Aeon Jecht (which was inside Sin), defeat it, Yu Yevon tries to possess whatever spirit he thinks beat the last aeon only to discover "oh shit, there's nothing to possess anymore" and they kill Yu Yevon the mindless spirit possessing thing. With Yu Yevon's death, the spirits that all form the aeons can finally sleep and with that Tidus disappears and Sin no longer re-forms ever.

It didn't matter how Tidus got to his Aeon Dad, just that he got there. Auron was gonna help and the easiest way was to just tag-along with a summoner. Coincidence happened and suddenly it was Braska's daughter, Yuna, and love bloomed even on the battlefield. But all that was pointless, because if loved hadn't bloomed, this still would have succeeded. If it wasn't Yuna, they still would've got there. If it was just Tidus went swimming in the ocean and Sin swallowed him and HAHA I'm inside, then bang.

15 is infinitely worse than 13.

I will listen to anything Grand Wizard Wakka says.

And Gandalf is conveniently captured by Sauruman, so he isn't able to return to the Shire in time. The stormtroopers conveniently find a piece of the droids ship in time before Luke can get back to his Uncle's house. What's your point? That's how stories work.
Tidus is just part of the dream of Zanarkand. There's nothing special about him beyond his connection to Jecht. But that connection isn't something that can actually defeat Sin. It can only give people fighting Sin a slight advantage in the fight. But that slight advantage wouldn't even matter if they don't have the tools or ability to actually defeat Sin, which at no point in the game do they until the end.

>By getting inside the armor that is "Sin." To specifically answer "how" is to beat a hole open. In FFX, that happens 'cause there's some electrical gun mounted to the ship that lops its arm off. They get inside, find Aeon Jecht and tadah.
And they wouldn't have been able to do that without the journey they go through, which is the point of the question I'm asking. There's nothing in the game that would have utilized Tidus/Auron to defeat Sin alone.

>Auron wasn't strong enough.
Which is my point? Even if Tidus didn't meet Yuna how would he and Auron have defeated Sin? You say Yuna is irrelevant, but you can't provide any story information that would have allowed Tidus to defeat the central villain without the aide of Yuna, et al.

FFX was mocked for its flamboyant character designs when it came out, just like FFXIII and XV later did.

Outside of the Nomura designs, I actually prefer the setting of FFXIII. I liked it when they did a similar design in FFVIII. Now, the areas are too linear and lack content. But I'm just saying the setting is nice. Would like to see more games use that type of setting, with better gameplay and without the Nomura characters.

As a side note, I'm still convinced the setting (and OST) for FFX was heavily influenced by Chrono Cross. And that Sin was influenced by Lavos.

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I would rather play 15 3 times than play the 13 trilogy once each, those games were astonishingly bad.

>You asking "how" is just asking someone to create another possible story to "how" he physically arrived from point A to point B.
No, me asking how is to show that you can't say X is irrelevant without actually stating how the main objective could have been completed without X, without having to create a brand new head canon. Let's say Tidus goes off with Rikku to Al bhed land. How do they stop Sin? Neither the Al bhed nor Tidus know that Sin is Yu Yevon possessing the final Aeon. Neither of them know that Jecht is said final Aeon. And Auron doesn't know where the Al bhed's secret base is.

So, Tidus goes off with Rikku, then how does Auron find him to tell him all those things?

If Auron does find them somehow, how do they kill Sin without a summoner?

>There's nothing special about him beyond his connection to Jecht
Wrong. This is why none of the explanations make sense to you.

BOTH JECHT AND TIDUS
ARE
AEONS

>The strength of Sin and any boss in any RPG is based on what the story needs it to be.
While this can apply to certain bosses, this clearly doesn't apply to Sin. Sin's strength is irrelevant to the gameplay mechanics. If FFX were a novel or a movie, then Sin would still be the same: A world destroying entity that can't be beaten by men. It's not like say MGS, where certain bosses are humans, but guns have no affect on them and only bombs or rockets do, because the game wants you to fight them as such.

The story (not the gameplay) is designed around Sin being a godlike being that can only be defeated through the use of the final aeon (as far as anyone is concerned). There's a reason why they use cutscenes to defeat Sin. Because Sin's strength is not a gameplay feature. How thick can you be? We saw an entire army try to fight sin and they got annihilated. It's a core feature of the game's story that can be translated to any medium. The fact that you're trying to deny this shows that it's you missing the point.

>And Gandalf is conveniently captured by Sauruman, so he isn't able to return to the Shire in time.
There's far more to it than that. Gandalf is betrayed by his mentor. He also warns Aragorn as a backup. And the fact that Gandalf is captured by Saruman isn't negated by later events in the story.

My example in FFX is a series of comical plot convenience, as if the writers just didn't care. They could have just had Tidus appear on Besaid island and skipped it all. His interactions with a bunch of people that he can't talk to and would meet later in the story is pretty much pointless. Gandalf already knew and trusted Saruman, so it's not really comparable. The location he's at is also an optional area you never need to go back to. So again, what's the signifigance of starting the story here? And having to write a "thrown from the ship" plot device to get him to the next location screams plot convenience.

>(or given Tidus some super saiyan skill to compensate).

>Auron flat out says he never intended Tidus to meet Yuna
Having beaten the game at least twice every year since release: when is this?

>If Tidus had gone to Zanarkand before meeting Yuna, as was Auron's original plan, then he would have learned this.
How would he have gotten to Zanarkand? A) the journey is a tough one B) he was separated from Auron from the start C) Even if they knew how to defeat Sin, Auron wasn't even strong enough to defeat Yunalesca. How was Auron going to defeat Sin in such a way that he could go inside Sin? Auron wasn't friends with the Al Bhed and he didn't know that they had a weapon that could. You're missing the point: Auron never had an actual plan to defeat Sin.

>Well, the Al Bhed believed they could. The others just didn't ask their opinion because they're "faithless."
So did the army at Luca, who worked with the Al Bhed. Both were blown the fuck out.

>His original plan was for Tidus to come into the "future" (reality) and go to Zanarkand to learn about his father. The fact that he doesn't tell Tidus this before pulling him into the "future" is plot convenience. And the fact that Tidus arrives in a totally different place than Auron is more plot convenience. All of this is of course done so Tidus can meet Yuna and go on the pilgrimage.
That's not a plan. Because you still need to actually defeat Sin to be able to go inside it. And then you have to defeat Yu Yevon itself, which neither Tidus nor Auron were strong enough to do.

>Once Auron finally meets up with them, he again had a chance to tell them everything. Would they have not believed him
Because people tend to not believe other unless they see it for themselves? Like, this is a real world concept. There are people right now who believe the Earth is flat even with all the overwhelming science and evidence to the contrary.

How would Tidus get to his dad without first breaking through Sin's armor? Auron didn't know that anyone outside of a summoner had a weapon to do such a thing.

I like X more than XIII but I don't really like either of them. I need that comfy chibi overworld aesthetic. It's just not FF to me without it.

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Tidus is not an aeon. All of Zanarkand is an aeon. Tidus is part of an aeon. And Tidus being an aeon doesn't make him special in the sense that he'd be able to defeat Sin. What makes him special in that sense is that he's connected to his father and can lull Jecht. Know what else can lull Jecht? The hymn of the fayth, which is why they have everyone in Spira sing it.

>And they wouldn't have been able to do that without the journey they go through
YES THEY COULD HAVE!!! We only saw one POSSIBLE way, because that's what the writer wrote! I could tell you any reason I wanted to about how Tidus "could have" gotten to Jecht (which I specifically did) but that wasn't the story of YunaxTidus fall in love. But it still applied the in-universe physics. Tidus could have gotten to Sin by being Seymour's lackey if need-be.

>they don't have the tools or ability to actually defeat Sin, which at no point in the game do they until the end.
Yes, they did have the tool to defeat Sin. Tidus, or rather, the knowledge they need to STOP LETTING YU YEVON POSSESS THE AEON THAT KILLED IT. Auron could've told 'em that. The Pope could've told them that. Yunalesca could have. Seymour could have. Auron wanted to, but the rest didn't because they were power-hungry evil bad guys or were afraid no one was going to be strong enough to beat the super-summoner wizard Yu Yevon anyway and were willing to live a permanent future where Sin exists destroying the planet except for, like, a decade after someone beats it off for a little break. There's nothing special they receive at the end of the game that magically allows them to "deal the killing blow to Sin." They just keep killing the aeons it keeps possessing. When it can't possess any more, they smash it into little pyreflies and it's gone and so are aeons the end.

>There's nothing in the game that would have utilized Tidus/Auron to defeat Sin alone.
Utilized? They were sentient beings that got from point A to point B and bang, Sin is now dead. They didn't need to be "utilized." They WANTED to do this. THEY utilized OTHERS to get to their destination. In FFX's story we got, it was Braska's daughter, Yuna. But, in FFX lore, it could have been ANYONE. Or one shot from some ancient electrical gun. Or maybe Sin sneezed. Yuna became pointless when we knew what Sin was. She had ZERO IMPACT on success.

I liked 13 and X though. 13 is probably the best ATB we'll ever see, and we'll probably never see it again because muh action combat. 13's story was filled with potential but they squandered it. I still think the l'cie/fal'cie idea is pretty nifty.

I don't get why people shit on the games for being "linear", it's not like, short of ff6's world of ruin, you ever have any say in the way you progress through the game, you always have to go to specific points to progress. Do people miss being able to run into gigantic ass-raping enemies that oneshot you because you stepped on the wrong tile?

wtf type of sports team name is Goer? Like people who go places? A go-getter? What?

ff10 had
>better combat
>better characters
>better story
>much better designs
>side shit to do that wasnt locked 30 hours into the game
>more than 1 town
While FFX is fairly linear they made an actual attempt to mask this, now you can argue XIII didnt have that chance because it was fugitives on the run but then maybe they shouldnt have fucking made damn near the entire game that or running around an uninhabited planet
Not to mention you actually control all your characters in 10 and dont game over if the AI decides to dick a character and eat their HP bar.

All of zanarkand isn't even an aeon, it's just something the fayth are summoning directly. An aeon is explicitly the merging of a summoner and an Aeon. The fayth on gagazet are summoning DZ, not a summoner

>These retards think Auron had a plan

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Multiple people have already answered al your questions. And you just keep replying with the same questions, as if the answers will change.

>How could he have gotten to Zanarkand?
>Rikku said the Al Bhed boat he was on at the beginning of the game was specifically heading there
>but how could he get to Zanarkand?!

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>You say Yuna is irrelevant, but you can't provide any story information that would have allowed Tidus to defeat the central villain without the aide of Yuna, et al.
Tidus only needed to get to Sin Jecht and defeat it. Tidus happened to be a sword-user. Great. He could've used a hammer. Or magic. Or a blitzball. Whatever. Just get Tidus to Sin Jecht and kill it. When Yu Yevon floats out looking for the aeon that killed its previous aeon to possess, KILL THAT. Done. That's it. That's all that needed to happen. Even Tidus could have gotten possessed, and then Auron kills Sin Tidus before it gets all strong, and then kills the Yu Yevon that can't possess Auron because he's just un-dead, not an aeson. The result is still always
>All the dreaming shrines get to "stop dreaming"
>Yu Yevon can't possess jack shit anymore
>Sin never ever gets re-made
>Aeons can't be summoned anymore, so Tidus becomes un-summoned

"Yuna's aide" is wonderfully helpful, because your party is filled with Level 60+ characters with awesome +Stat armor and a couple even have "ultimate weapons" like a spiky blitzball or a kickass pair of gloves with extra abilities on them. BUT THEY ARE NOT ESSENTIAL. None of them are. Not your Helter Skelter sword, not having Lulu be "alive" during the battle, not winning or losing the blizball tournament, not having the secret aeon of Seymour's mother Pain be available to summon or the trio of insect girls to summon, not any of it. Not even Yuna's presence. In FFX's lore, YUNA doesn't matter. It could have been Dona. It could have been a mounted ancient gun. It could have been Seymour. Yuna wasn't special. No one in the party was, except for Zanarkand aeon Tidus and undead Auron who knew how it aaaaaaaallllllllllllll worked.

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>Auron could've told 'em that.
Literally didn't even fucking know who Yu Yevon was
>The Pope could've told them that.
Mika explicitly said Yu Yevon was immortal and mc-fucking-re-killed himself because he thought all hope was lost.
>Yunalesca could have.
Also clearly didn't know that there was a way to defeat sin. Tried to kill you instead of robbing spira of hope. (oh shit there's that thing again)
>Seymour could have.
He MIGHT have known about yu yevon being a maester but we aren't even fucking clear on that as it's not addressed. Probably didn't know jack shit until he's already inside sin (which probably also didn't happen until you fucking beat overdrive sin)

You're fucking retarded. Stop posting. More importantly stop thinking you understand the game when everything you're saying is clearly the headcanon of a fucking retard.

>Tidus could have gotten to Sin by being Seymour's lackey if need-be.
Except Seymour had no desire to break the cycle of Sin. So how would Tidus have gotten inside of Sin. Seymour wanted to be a final Aeon and then Sin and then cause more death and destruction. Why would he agree to destroying Sin? He didn't want to create the final aeon, he wanted to be it. So that plan would have failed miserably.

>Auron wanted to, but the rest didn't because they were power-hungry evil bad guys or were afraid no one was going to be strong enough to beat the super-summoner wizard Yu Yevon anyway and were willing to live a permanent future where Sin exists destroying the planet except for, like, a decade after someone beats it off for a little break.
Which is my point. Our characters needed to go through the journey that they do, so that they can come to the conclusion that the cycle must be broken. Prior to Bevelle, all of them are in agreement that while this path sucks, it's the only way and the best way, and that Spira deserves this.

>Utilized? They were sentient beings that got from point A to point B and bang, Sin is now dead.
They defeated Sin, because they had a powerful weapon to break the shell and powerful Aeons to help defeat Jecht. They got all those, because of the journey that they went on with Yuna. Yuna's aeon's became stronger, because her resolve, became stronger. It's a story point that the strength of the aeon is tied to the mental/spiritual strength of the summoner.
>But, in FFX lore, it could have been ANYONE
No one is denying that it could have been anyone. Hell, Tidus didn't technically need to be the one to do go. Any one in Zanarkand (or Spira) could have done it. In the end, what lulls Jecht-Sin is the entirety of Spira singing the hymn of the Fayth.

No one is chosen or destined. The events happen, because the characters developed to cause the events.

No one said it was a good plan. But his plan was "get Tidus to Zanarkand and hope the spirits provide them with a miracle." Which is slightly better than "let the pilgrimage happen again, let Yunalesca's death be for nothing, watch his daughter repeat the cycle and watch your one chance slip away." You can argue Tidus meeting Yuna and doing the pilgrimage increased their odds. But from Auron's perspective, he just needed to get Tidus to Zanarkand and repeat what Jecht did.

You're giving away how retarded you are by using the same words over and over. You still haven't answered my question here

>That's the point though Cocoon is artificial.
Way to miss a point. It doesn't feel like a man-made world either, it feels like a random videogame level and nothing more.

It wasnt just his plan but jecht and his plan
>watch over tidus while he grows in "dream" zanarkand
>have jecht snatch him when hes old enough to not die when left by himself for 5 minutes
>bring him to spira
>ah fuck braskas kid is trying to ritualistically sudoku herself like her old man
>well I guess I shouldnt let either of my best friends kids get hit by a malboro and die
>IDEA
>fuck the final summoning
>fuck yevon
>especially fuck yunalesca
>brat powercouple are dumb enough to actually try this shit so lets do it
Now how he could have done anything without at the very least Cid and his newly dredged up airship is beyond me, but as far as his "plan" it seemed like it was mostly just follow jechts wishes of letting his crybaby son experience spira

>Let's say Tidus goes off with Rikku to Al bhed land. How do they stop Sin?
They mount an ancient electrical gun on top of the ship they rebuilt and chop off Sin's arm. This gets Tidus (and Auron, who told him how this happened and how to stop him) inside Sin, meet Sin Jecht, kill him, meet Yu Yevon, kill it, the end.

>Neither the Al bhed nor Tidus know that Sin is Yu Yevon possessing the final Aeon.
Auron does. Auron makes it his un-dead life's mission to raise Tidus, bring him to the "future" (reality) and kill Jecht. It's the whole point.

>Neither of them know that Jecht is said final Aeon.
Auron does.

>And Auron doesn't know where the Al bhed's secret base is.
Rikku does. "Wah, they don't have Rikku" so what? Go to the desert and look until you find it. The goal is the same: kill Sin. Tidus doesn't believe in the Spira religion and Auron literally fucking hates it. They have zero animosity. They'd get along swell.

>So, Tidus goes off with Rikku, then how does Auron find him to tell him all those things?
He searches until he does. How did he find him at the blitzball tournament? He searched until he did. It just so happened to be that town. It could have been, fucking, anywhere.

>If Auron does find them somehow, how do they kill Sin without a summoner?
A summoner is COMPLETELY UNECESSARY. All a summoner does it summon a strong aeon from one of the shrines. That's it. A summoner IS NOT REQUIRED to kill Sin or Yu Yevon. The game gives the impression that aeon's are these ultimate beings far strong than any other monster, beast, Ronso, bat guano, human anything could ever be. The game demands that Yunalesca MUST turn a summoner's BFF into a new aeon that can be summoned to break the shell, beat that previous BFF summon from last generation, then let Yu Yevon possess this new aeon while it then repairs itself for, like, 10-20 years. This time is called a "Calm."
But it's a SHAM. You DON'T NEED AN AEON.

he lineal nature in 13 is the least of its issues

only 5 classes
poorly executed plot
over streamlined gameplay and not enough customization for weapons and characters
bad characters besides the black guy and hope
awful atmosphere syfy bullshit and michael bay transformer summons
no side content besides kill more monsters

overall 10 felt like a final fantasy game in spite of it shortcomings and 13 didn't

DZ is an aeon. The ritual to conjure up Zanarkand is the same as it is to conjure up Aeons like Bahamut, etc, just that instead of one person Yu Yevon used the entire population of Zanarkand to summon the dream. And that's what aeons are: physical manifestations of a fayth's dream (in this case the entirety of Zanarkand's citizens). Thank you. Auron had no plan other than to hope that Tidus could somehow lull Jecht. If not for Yuna and the pilgrimage party, then nothing would have happened. Auron would have died the same way he did against Yunalesca.

>Rikku said the Al Bhed boat he was on at the beginning of the game was specifically heading there
How would he have gotten to Zanarkand with Auron? How would he have been able to survive getting to Yunalesca or defeating her. Hardly any summoner at the end of the pilgrimage can?

>Tidus only needed to get to Sin Jecht and defeat it.
How would he have gotten inside? Did Jecht have a plan for that? Did Jecht know of a way to break Sin's shell?
>Whatever. Just get Tidus to Sin Jecht and kill it
That's not a plan. That's hope.

I like X and while I don’t really like XIII I enjoyed XIII-2. Wish it had been the original XIII to begin with.

>Auron didn't know
So fucking what? Does that disprove it was possible?
>how
>how
>how
Always answered, both by literal facts from the game and by anons pointing the answer to you. How doesn't matter anyway to the story, just that it happens. How do you paint a bicycle red? There are a lot of ways. How do you get inside Sin? Turns out, there are a lot of ways. It's not a flawless being with only 1-way-in.

Ive had the 13 trilogy installed on my pc for several years now because I heard 13-2 and LR were ok games but my autism wont let me jump into 13-2 without beating 13
Ive gotten to giant face robot guy(barthandalus??) twice and pulse once out of the 3 times I tried to power through

Exactly. There's nothing in the story that shows that Auron actually had an set plan or a way for Tidus to actually get to his father beyond bringing him to Spria. And that's the question that can't answer.

>They mount an ancient electrical gun on top of the ship they rebuilt and chop off Sin's arm
None of them knew it would work. They also tried doing something like that earlier and it failed miserably. Auron didn't even plan or consider meeting up with the Al bhed. It was chance that led Tidus to meet up with Rikku, not Auron's planning.

>Auron does. Auron makes it his un-dead life's mission to raise Tidus, bring him to the "future" (reality) and kill Jecht. It's the whole point.
Yes he does, but at the start of the game Tidus isn't with Auron. They were separated. Tidus and the Al Bhed don't know anything about Yu Yevon and Jecht. Tidus could have gone with the Al Bhed, but how would that have helped, since they and he don't know shit. Futhermore, as has been said many times. Auron doesn't actually have a plan to do the most important thing: break Sin's shell.

>Rikku does.
Okay. Tidus goes with the Al bhed to Zanarkand. Then they go to the Al Bhed's secret base. Well, Auron isn't with them, so how would Auron then meet up with Tidus?

>He searches until he does. How did he find him at the blitzball tournament?
He heard about the crazy person from Zanarkand who joined Yuna's pilgrimage + he knew Tidus liked Blitzball, so there was a good chance that he would head that way.

>A summoner is COMPLETELY UNECESSARY. All a summoner does it summon a strong aeon from one of the shrines
Except, that they did need to Aeons to defeat Yu Yevon. Even without an aeon to possess, Yu Yevon is still an extremely powerful summoner, and it was only after they wore him down with all the aeons that they were able to fight him.

Excuse me for responding to half a dozen posts at the same time. Also, I don't know the exact scene it is. If you want to claim I'm wrong because I don't want to go watch hours of cutscenes on Youtube, be my guest. But I've played the game four times myself. And he does say that.

>And then you have to defeat Yu Yevon itself, which neither Tidus nor Auron were strong enough to do.
Says who? Auron got stronger. Tidus got stronger. You're trying to convince me Yuna, Rikku, Kimhari, Lulu, Wakka AND Tidus + Auron are what's strong enoug. So why not Dona + Bartholomeo? Why not Seymour? Why not a tamed group of beasts? Why not the entire Ronso tribe? Why not a 2 thousand-year-old gun?

Apparently, you're demanding that Tidus' party as written in FFX is the ONLY way for this to succeed and absolutely nothing else could. You're being willfully ignorant.

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>you're a retard because you won't answer my question!
>completely ignores his points

>So fucking what? Does that disprove it was possible?
No, but you can't say that X is irrelevant to the story without actually presenting anything withing the confines of the story that could say that they could have accomplished the end goal without X. Auron never had a legitimate plan, therefore defeating Sin would never have been accomplished had Tidus and Yuna not gone on that journey together.

I dont see them getting inside sin any other asspull kinda way since they literally had the entire planet singing jechts favorite song

Most of the plot of 13 is irrelevant to 13-2 and LR so you wouldn’t really lose much by skipping ahead.
Honestly my favorite thing the sequels did was introduce Caius who is a much more entertaining villain than the nothing that was Robo-Pope

>And then you have to defeat Yu Yevon itself, which neither Tidus nor Auron were strong enough to do.
Yu Yevon wants to die. He literally heals your party during the fight and helps you with stat buffs. But to add to this, the whole point of having Tidus fight Yu Yevon is that he makes amends with his father, who becomes part of Yu Yevon. And his father weakens Yu Yevon to the point that Tidus can fight him.

Because this final battle is a plot point, and the games mechanics work to help you, they could have made Yu Yevon as weak as he needed to be. Even weak enough for just Tidus alone to fight him.

>So why not Dona + Bartholomeo?
Because they believe in the teachings of Yu Yevon. Yuna has doubts, because she's half Al bhed and has kind of always had a niggling doubt. We have no reason to believe that this is the case with Dona, in fact the scene in the Al bhed base kind of points to the opposite.
>Why not Seymour?
For a guy that's claimed to have beaten the game 4 times, you seem to completely misunderstand Seymour's motive that's spelled out to you the 4 times you fight him: Seymour wants to become Sin and bring death to Spira. Seymour does not want to defeat Sin and bring the calm.
>Why not the entire Ronso tribe?
What makes you think that they could defeat Sin's armor when an entire army couldn't?
>Why not a 2 thousand-year-old gun?
Because no one knew that a thousand year old gun could work, and the last time they tried, it failed. The al bhed have also not been completely successful in revitalizing old tech.

>Auron never had a legitimate plan,
Yes he did. Get Tidus to Zanarkand.

>therefore defeating Sin would never have been accomplished had Tidus and Yuna not gone on that journey together.
You don't know this. Because, as people have already explained above, Tidus learns what he needs from the spirits in Zanarkand. Not from Yuna or the pilgrimage.

>Outsource your remake art to a chink company
>They self-insert their chink faces

>Yes he did. Get Tidus to Zanarkand.
That's not a plan.

That's like saying the allied plan to defeat Germany is to land troops in France. That's not a plan. That's a smaller goal in a larger goal.

This just in. The Fellowship in Lord of the Rings didn't have a plan, because they didn't plan every minute detail. John Conner didn't have a plan, because there were variables he couldn't account for. Maximus didn't have a plan, because he never knew for certain he could get close to Commodus.

But sure. Let's go with your nit-picking. Auron had a "goal" to get Tidus to Zanarkand. Which is still a better option than another pilgrimage.

>b-but it's not a goal because I'm going to contradict myself and say a goal is the same as a plan!

You're just not listening, user.
1. Breaking Sin's shell is possible with enough power. In the past, that came from a summoner with a strong enough aeon. In FFX, it came from a gun the Al-Bhed found and repaired. With the proven case-in-point; a summoner is not required to crack Sin.
2. Mika was wrong. And you fucking know it. They killed Yu Yevon. Mika knew about Yu Yevon, he just claimed it was some phoenix. And we all know by that point that just because someone in the cult was screaming something as immortal fact didn't make it true.
3. Yunalesca knew what Yu Yevon was, what he did and how Sin worked. She simply didn't believe anyone was strong enough to kill Yu Yevon. She didn't really WANT them to, anyway. She just fucking hated the machina city of Bevelle and if that meant keeping Yu Yevon, the super-summoner from Zanarkand, and his goddamned Sin summon alive then so be it. Why would some team of idiots be stronger than the ancient city of Bevelle, anyway? She didn't believe in them.
4. Seymour was just trying to replace Yu Yevon himself, he was pretty confident Yu Yevon could be killed and HE was gonna FUCKING DO IT.

We never saw that story, because we got the love-story of Tidus the fayth dream and Yuna the machina/religion half-breed who explore the world together and then part ways instead. But it allllllllllll answers that damned "how, how, how" you keep asking with in-universe explanations and reasons and possibilities. Sin could be killed, Yu Yevon could be destroyed, none of it required a summoner to do it -- aeons were simply the easiest way to almost do it 'cause aeons are friggin' strong. Problem is, if you use an aeon, Yu Yevon will just possess it and the process starts over again because "wah, I can't kill my bff!" But it totally could have happened in the past. It simply didn't.

I fucking hate these threads because they remind me that the XIII defence squad exists

Of course they didn't and they improvised a lot as they went along. Which was my original point: You can say that Aragorn and all them don't need to go XYZ. And Frodo doesn't need to spend some time with Faramir and in the end he and Sam don't "need" Gollum, but I wouldn't call Gollum irrelevant.

Yuna is relevant to the story that they told. If they didn't want the story to involve Yuna, then they would have had it so that Auron actually had a plan. But he didn't. So the story wouldn't have worked without Yuna and the pilgrimage. And Auron's "plan" is not better than the pilgrimage, because the pilgrimage is what set the characters up with the means to defeat Sin.

You're arguing with multiple people, you know that, right?

I hate these threads because they've been full of all the same arguments since FFX came out. Same with all the FFVII threads. All it proves to me is that 1) FF fans want ambiguity in stories so they can write fanfics and head canon and 2) Final Fantasy stories are full of massive holes.

The farther they stray from typical JRPG gameplay the worse off they tend to be.

>There's nothing in the story that shows that Auron actually had an set plan
He doesn't need one. He simply knows that using the Yunalesca method doesn't work in defeating Sin and he knows why. He's just gonna try something else. Like, using Tidus instead of The Final Aeon. See if that works. Better than just doing it all over again.

>or a way for Tidus to actually get to his father beyond bringing him to Spria.
Tidus gets to Spira because of Sin-Ject in the first place. Sin sucks him up off that bridge and throws him into the ocean. Even if that event didn't happen, Auron could've just physically dragged Tidus there; it's how Jecht got there, after all. He went out to sea and never came back, drunk out of his mind and sailing away until he found Spira. If you're fucking asking, "how does Auron bring Tidus to the inside of Sin" like you have been over and over and over and over; that, too, has been answered a trillion times. There are lots of ways and Yuna, the daughter of Braska, is not necessary and not the only way.

An "opinion" (about a series so wide it's practically its own genre) that can be reduced to one sentence is neither worth stating nor hearing.

>Of course they didn't and they improvised a lot as they went along.
The Fellowship and all those other examples had a plan. The plan just fell apart quickly. A plan is just a way to achieve a goal. And in all these examples, including FFX, they had a goal. Auron's goal from the start was to get Tidus to Zanarkand. When he learned Yuna was taking them there, he just went along with it.

And then you go on to contradict yourself by claiming Yuna has relevance in the story. Despite ignoring how her "plan" was completely contradicted by the end. By your own (failed) logic, she would have no point in the story because her plan of completing the pilgramidge falls apart.

Now your only way to salvage your point is to admit that you mean goal instead of plan and correct yourself. Or go "no U" in anger and claim to still be right in light of the evidence.

>None of them knew it would work.
Cry about it. "It's not a plan!" CRY ABOUT IT. They tried it and it worked. The Al-Bhed were GONNA TRY IT, regardless of Auron or Tidus being present or not. It's a way to get inside. Auron was probably more likely to just use some other summoner or something and their Final Aeon to get to that final step and just have Tidus and himself kill post Sin, Nu-Sin and then Yu Yevon. Done.

>At the start of the game, Tidus and Auron were separated.
You seem to think it's ONLY BECAUSE OF YUNA that they ever found each other again, and you're being stupid for demanding that's the only way it could have happened; nothing else could ever, never, ever, never allowed Auron to find the weird blitzballer who claims he's from Zanarkand who claims he's the son of the famous Guardian Jecht. Nope, Auron could never find that guy unless he was attached to Yuna and only Yuna. Only way. If you think that, you're wrong.

>Okay, then how would Tidus meet Auron?
He similarly searches. Also, Auron is DEAD; he likely has ways around that regular mortals don't. He could still find Tidus himself.

>He heard about the crazy person
Yeah. Doesn't need to be attached to a summoner, though. He found the crazy drunk Jecht and Jecht wasn't attached to a summoner!

>Except, that they did need Aeons to defeat Yu Yevon.
NO. They NEVER DEFEATED YU YEVON. EVER. They simply beat the last Final Aeon with the New Final Aeon and then Yu Yevon possessed THAT. In the past, it was usually just a 1:1 summoner+guardian. Guardian becomes Final Aeon (thx Yunalesca) and summoning that Final Aeon literally killed the summoner. Given how tough the battle was, it wouldn't be surprising the other guardians just couldn't keep up or maybe the church quieted them if they tried to let out the secret. Who knows. Yuna was MOCKED, CONSTANTLY for having so many guardians. What a pussy summoner to need so much help! Turns out, it was good help for killing Yu Yevon. Not summoning though

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X had a grade school sense of aesthetics and narrative
X had a simple rocks papers scissors combat
X was insanely linear

XV is complex and cool
XV has a great and exciting action/rpg combat system, not easily solved
XV is open world and filled with side missions and post game content

>Because no one knew that a thousand year old gun could work
Stop. You're complaining every time this is brought up. Guess what? It did work. It's literally the reason FFX has for how they got inside. Maybe it was an asspull for the game as much as you're trying to reason it's an asspull now. It doesn't change anything. A Final Aeon is not required.

I'm done. You're simply willfully ignoring the reasons, in-game, that prove the point because you want to think how FFX played out is the only way Sin could be defeated. No other way. And you won't listen to the answers that directly solve your questions with FFX lore and with FFX cutscenes. There's no point to discuss this with you any longer.

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Squall isn't whiney though, he's just broody.

Not once have I ever said that the way the story plays out is the "only" way to defeat Sin. I've said that Yuna isn't irrelevant to the story. You say that she is. I'm stating that you can't say that Tidus is essential to the story and act like Yuna isn't. Tidus isn't needed in the story, because anyone could have defeated Sin. But that's not the story that's told. You can't have the story that's told without Yuna. That's my point.

The story is dumb but the gameplay is fun

I enjoyed X, but haven't played XIII yet. Is there a whiney protagonist in there as well?

user, the other anons have been arguing with you about Yuna's relevance to the character Auron bringing the character Tidus to the land called Zanarkand to defeat the enemy called Sin which is possessed by the secret enemy Yu Yevon.
You've been stating that Yuna is relevant to this order of events. Your reason is vague, but seems to revolve around the coincidental factors of Tidus' appearance on Besaid and him joining her on her pilgrimage.
They've been stating that a pilgrimage is not the only way to get to Zanarkand and that Auron already knows everything, including the existence of that secret boss (he's seen it before). All the matters is Auron's goal of getting Tidus to the end and killing this version of Sin which wants to die and is willing to let it happen.

We got the story of FFX that focuses on Yuna and Tidus. In the lore of FFX, however, Yuna is pointless.

He's legitimately not whiny in the original Japanese. The horrible western translation makes him sound emo though.

So, like FFX?

Yes and no. It's more that the way the story is handled, one character comes off as whiny. But in reality, he's angry. I'd be angry if I was stuck in that story as well.

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>XV is complex and cool
Having an incomplete narrative and the need to read up 90% of the game on fan wikis isn't complex or cool, it's just annoying and bad.

>XV has a great and exciting action/rpg combat system, not easily solved
>Hold O to win
>Use item to recover in case of dead

>XV is open world and filled with side missions and post game content
Such as?

Here's your (you) fellow user

If I wanted a plot, if read a book or watch a movie/ play a scea game. All I need a game to be is fun to play.

Yes, and so is Auron and Tidus. Because the Al bhed or the Luca army working with the Al bhed could have done it themselves. Someone could have destroyed the fayth that were dreaming Zanarkand. Just like how in LotR, the Valar could have come in and curb stomped Sauron and crushed the ring if they wanted to. Or Eru could have. But that's not the story being told.

>This is also where Yuna's story falls apart. Because it turns out the whole games story was focusing so much on her and her Aeons...and all she has to do is just cast them while Jecht and Tidus do the rest. She's just a game trigger.

This is the central premise that I'm arguing against. You can say the same for Tidus. Tidus isn't actually needed in the game. What lulls Sin and causes him to put them his shield is the people of Spira singing the hymn of the Fayth, not Tidus. Hell, Yu Yevon and Zanarkand lost the war the machina. Who's to say that there isn't tech that's more powerful that Sin's shields. At the end of the day, they told their story and by the way their story was told Yuna is relevant. You can say that Auron didn't need Yuna and her Aeons, but that leads to this question: what actionable plan did Auron have to actually defeat Sin. Was there an actual method/sure fire plan to defeat Sin, or was Auron just hoping for the best?

The council of Elrond wasn't hoping for the best when they said that only the fire's of mount Doom could destroy the ring. So unless the Valar or Eru came down, that was the only way: take the ring to Mordor.

Then what are you doing in an JRPG thread, which is the equivalent of a book in gaming?

13 does not have racist jokes so...

>XV has a great and exciting action/rpg combat system

uhhhh.......

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You're contradicting yourself again, this time with hypocrisy. This time, you're saying you aren't getting the answer you want because you're hypocritically agreeing about Yuna's irrelevancy by prefacing that Tidus and Auron are equally as irrelevant to Sin's destruction. Yeah, so you do understand. You still just claim that FFX has Yuna in it, so therefore Yuna is relevant to Sin's destruction. No, that's wrong, she's just relevant to FFX's story. Why? Because Sin's destruction doesn't revolve around Yuna, but the love story certainly does.

The writer's wrote their series of events to set the scene, create a plot, tell a story, build the world and its lore and focus on the dream-boy Tidus and the summoner Yuna and how through their adventures together learn the secrets of the world and take the unknown risk to stop the cycle and how it succeeds. You'll admit that success could have happened in other ways, but in the same breath say it didn't happen another way so this is the only way.

I don't like any final fantasy after VI.

Linearity as a dirty word? Is this 2007?

In FFXIII you're running from the shitty story

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BETTER DEAD THAN AL BHED

hol up

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what the fuck is this

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A sand-blasted grease monkey.

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little mechhead? I’ll have you know I made captain of my team in the Besaid Aurochs, and I’ve been involved in numerous random battles on Spira, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in blitzball warfare and I’m the top blitzball player in the entire Spira blitzball sport, ya. You are nothing to me but just another unbeliever. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Spira, mark my fucking words, ya. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, heretic. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of fans across Besaid and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, monkey. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life, ya. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my blitzball. Not only am I extensively trained in blitzball combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Besaid Aurochs and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue, ya. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you sand-blasted grease monkey. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it, ya. You’re fucking dead, brudda.

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you get points for the Pic of Rikku with big boobs (She's canonically flat as shit though), but everything deducted for the rest of your post.

>He still had the ability to kill sin
Um, dafuq? Did you not catch how the ONLY one of the group that was able to kill sin permanently was Yuna?

Destroying sin required you to kill Yu Yevon and send off all Fayths. Tidus can't send souls away, so he couldn't get rid of the fayth and summons.

Hypothetically he could just start killing every single summon in the world and destroying the fayth until there's none left, but guess what, the second someone makes another fayth/aeon Yu yevon's just going to Possess it again.

Wakka, why is your class listed as "Imperial Wizard"?

Because to say a character is irrelevant is to say that a character could be taken out of the story and the same story would be told. That's my point. If you state the she's irrelevant, then you can only say that by completely changing the story. And then you have a completely different story/plot/narrative.

Wanna know a character that's irrelevant? Pretty much most of section 9 outside of Kusanagi, Batou, Togusa and Aramaki. Which is why different adaptations give them varying levels of importance. They can be taken out and the themes, ideas, plot threads can still remain more or less the same.

>Alternate timeline where Wakka became a Summoner, just so he can use his Aeons on the Al Bhed

>his aeon is literally just a giant blitzball

Nah user, Aeons don't work like that
>He uses his Aeons to win at Blitzball, then uses the Blitzball money to fund Yojimbo's rampage on the Al Bhed

too much linearity is never good. being nudged along a safe path and then being let loose into stronger stuff at a higher level is best. kinda like xenoblade, you run around guar plain and find a shit load of enemies in the 70s and 80s, so obviously you dont go there. and when you hit high enough level there is more to explore

Final Fantasy proves 5th gen is better than 6th.
FF7 > 9 > 8 > shit = 10 = 12

How long until society gets so bad that the catholic church unleashes a monster to destroy the clown world? And whose dad is gonna be the monster?

Catholics are clowns.

We ever going to get that spinoff Civilization game about this fucker flying a colony spaceship to another planet, displacing the native populace with his own planet's people and then setting up giant planet killing reactors?

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Anyone who likes a Final Fantasy past 6 is a nigger and a faggot and a jew. Or worse, a woman.

>Wakka, why does your job title say 'Grand Wizard'

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