TBC is the prime example of "you think you do, but you don't"

The best raids go to wod, surprisingly enough.
TBC raids were meh-shit sans a couple exceptions
Hyjal alone is already a blight on humanity.

>wod

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most of the dailies people remember about TBC came during the last content patch

>tfw you will never experience being in a goofy 10 man guild raiding karazhan shittily again

TBC had good dungeons, and good raids. Heroic dungeons were a good addition.
I don't like Outland, I don't like dailies, I don't like flying mounts, and I fucking hate Shatt.

If we take anything for Classic, it should be some huge 1.13 talent/balance overhaul to get some of those TBC class changes and better itemization across the board. Karazhan can just be ripped and turned into a catch-up raid

i played TBC in 2007. AMA

in 2007 i was still retard who thought tongue-fucking pussy was a good move

Clit rubbing is the way to go my dude. Your girl will love you forever.

Daily reminder that tbc
>killed world pvp
>start of welfare epics
>start of group finder
>start of class homogenization by making classes lose their quirks, some remained, but it paved the way as they tried to make everything have more and more parity
>rotations were even more braindead than vanilla, with several classes being able to put their entire rotation on one button or the scroll wheel.
>start of hybrid classes being walking gods as druids completely buttfuck balance
>only half the raids, at most, were goodish/decent
>start of people afking in cities waiting for things to pop because there's nothing else to do
>killed all sense of exploration and world by having flying
>completely butt fucked lore to degrees never before seen even to this day, so far that they're still trying to revert it 10 years later
>start of server imbalances to the point where servers are just 90/10 for one faction, because the world doesn't matters anymore
>absolutely fucking horrid questing
>start of content being layered out to appeal to everyone such as the addition of heroic dungeons
>start of "do this weekly thing to get free welfare gear that's raid tier"
>and many more

TBC was a massive shift in game philosophy and from there onwards it just got worse and worse until current time.

Everything started in tbc, tbc was the tumor that slowly grew and killed the game

WE all did bud

MOP is waaaay worse with the dailies grind and people look at that shit positively ignoring muh pandas

>good raids
>ideal middle ground of vanilla's talent choices and wrath's spec differentiation
>better class and spec balance than vanilla
>better 5 man content than wrath
>professions that weren't just enchanting and alchemy relevant throughout expansion
>pre-dk
tbc was fine

no. none of you did. you're all fucking cata/panda babies and theres nothing you can say to convince me otherwise.

No that was when sunwell got released. Before that it was grinding heroics endlessly till you were ready for karazhan

Do you reroll ret paladin during ISQD?

wotlk was the best wow

yall are fucking loser boys

arena was good, and there was tons of world pvp especially in nagrand.

BGs were always shit. they were shit in vanilla because they eventually just became a grind of 10 nerds stomping out people in blues rushing for HWL. arenas were vastly superior because at least it brought a modicum of skill to wow's pvp scene along with a better ranking system

I said surprisingly enough, read.
But then again replying like this tells me a lot.
The problem with wod wasn't the game itself, because what we did got was pretty good sans ashran.
The problem with wod was the utter and complete lack of content.

Highmaul, blackrock foundry and hellfire are among the best raids in all of wow, the problem was that there was nothing else.

fun raids. Karazahn was cool, setting up server Gruul and Magtharedon fights was always a good time and got to meet lots of people and make new friends! flying in outlands was so boring and crappy looking areas except Nagrand was so fucking cool looking. Terokkar Forest was an ugly ass area being so foggy all the time all white, grey sky... gross looking.

no. I played a BM hunter the entire expansion. the concept of seal twisting or whatever the fuck was too much for my retard brain.

Best raids were in wrath, Legion and even BFA has gotten one of the best raids so far. MOP also is up there. WoD? fuck outta here

I have the axe from the halloween event right before WotLK came out on a hunter

>talks to me about wod

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>hyjal
>magtheridons lair
>gruuls lair
>black temple (average at best)
>good raids

>ideal middle ground of vanilla's talent choices and wrath's spec differentiation
way too much in the side of wrath

>better 5 man content than wrath
wrath dungeons are literally among the worst dungeons, hows that a plus

>professions that weren't just enchanting and alchemy relevant throughout expansion

Every single profession in vanilla was extremely relevant, just with engineering being at the top

wrath raids?
You fucking serious nigger?

Oh yeah the GREAT RAID OF TOC.
Just considered one, if not the worst raids of all time.
Well there's the amazing naxx, oh wait that's a vanilla raid.
Then there's onyxi- oh it's also a vanilla raid.

Well there's eye of eternity AHAHAHAHAH
Ehh, ruby sanctum?
Come on nigger
Vault of free, boring loot that no one even remembers?

The only good raids in wrath were ulduar, obsidian and half of icc

quick tbc 1 month in

came back for wotlk stayed till cata 2 weeks in quit wow

is this bait?

>The only good raids in wrath were
the main 3 raids LEWL

Daily reminder classic will progress to classic+ and there's NOTHING you tbc fags can do about it

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Wrath had 1 good raid

>that one streamer claiming to be so good and so ancient for playing classic , turns out its all fake. and he sucks even in beta while being carried by a mob of zoomers

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Ah yeah, forgot naxx wasn't literally the entire first tier of content, full of reused bosses and recolored.
And forgot the only true good raid, ulduar, was replaced extremely quickly by toc.
And icc being mostly a disappointment sans like 5 bosses

Is there anything worse than wrath babies?

yea wod babys like yourself LUL

pathetic

go back to your twitch stream

Yea Forums bitched about it non stop, do you guys like it now or something?

>killed world pvp
wrong
>start of welfare epics
correct
>start of group finder
dungeon finder got added in wrath, the group finder in TBC wasn't shit and was barely used
>start of class homogenization by making classes lose their quirks, some remained, but it paved the way as they tried to make everything have more and more parity
class balance in tbc was way better than in vanilla, see shadow priests druids and shamans
>rotations were even more braindead than vanilla, with several classes being able to put their entire rotation on one button or the scroll wheel.
what's vanilla mage retard
>start of hybrid classes being walking gods as druids completely buttfuck balance
what's RMP
>only half the raids, at most, were goodish/decent
wrong
>start of people afking in cities waiting for things to pop because there's nothing else to do
this happened in vanilla too dipshit
>killed all sense of exploration and world by having flying
you'll never go back to being a child
>completely butt fucked lore to degrees never before seen even to this day, so far that they're still trying to revert it 10 years later
warcraft lore has always been a joke
>start of server imbalances to the point where servers are just 90/10 for one faction, because the world doesn't matters anymore
this is true
>absolutely fucking horrid questing
like vanilla shit was better?
>start of content being layered out to appeal to everyone such as the addition of heroic dungeons
heroic dungeons were difficult for a lot of people, pugs in tbc were a nightmare I would say kara and za were more casual catered content
>start of "do this weekly thing to get free welfare gear that's raid tier"
sure
>and many more
go ahead and name some

look at this seething faggot
are you my cousin the wrathbaby? still butthurt you didnt get to experience the GOLDEN ERA

FUCK FLYING MOUNTS

You got pwned

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>update to alterac valley.
>Moves horde spawn several hundred meters back.
>Keeps the NPCs barebones. Lana Thunderbrew raping horde alone.
>Alliance high percentage win majority for years.

>naxx
>maly
>sarth not 3 drake
>totc
>half of icc
>ruby sanctum

fuck off wotlk baby

>rotations were even more brain dead
Lol I remember the hunters in my raid group sharing a macro that one had made, you just smash the macro over and over and it did your rotation for you. Worst of all it put up big dick dps numbers.

Wrath babies are utter cancer. I cannot fathom why Wrath is considered WoW's most popular expansion. There is very little good about it, and it is inferior in nearly every way to TBC.

Karazhan was the best tbqh, and I thought class balance was better.

>TBC was 90% dailies

How to out yourself as a retail fucklord who was 8 when TBC was released: the post

tbc was a shit expansion and promoted these faggot twitch streamers like reckfull mitch and soda maybe not the worse but not the best neither

Attached: 8.png (1288x1567, 2.1M)

Because it's when the retards flooded in, most people first expansion and it held their hand in everything.
From dungeon finder to completely brainded aoe fest dungeons to literally free gear it did all it could to make these retards feel at home.

Which just made cata harder dungeons hit them even harder to the point where their screeching made the devs reconsider the entire expansion and abandon tons of things

>divebombing levelers in nagrand on my full glad gear warrior
WPVP BAYBEEE

The moment they nerfed all the cata heroics was when I knew it'd be worse than wrath.

>start of class homogenization by making classes lose their quirks, some remained, but it paved the way as they tried to make everything have more and more parity

Flat out wrong. TBC has some of the best class identity to the point an ideal raid setup almost includes every class and spec because they all bring something unique.
Until Sunwell when Mages become 100% useless, Shamans make all other healer irrelevant, and Warlocks blow all other dps out of the fucking water.

>tbc promoted streamers

that was cata you fucking mong

TBCbabbies are the worst
fuck you and your shitty expansion, vanilla and wotlk were better

i quit wow because of the tbc daillies

All it took for me was questing through Hyjal to know WoW was doomed going forward.

only good thing about tbc was the attuments and pve

leveling was shit
pvp was shit
arena was shit

dugeons great
Heroics great
rep daily grinds great
proffesions great
raids great

>wrathbabies
fuck off wrath was the beginning of the end TBC is way better

My guild could not figure out Archimonde they would die too easily to him, the previous bosses and mobs would be easy, a paladin could pick their aggro with consecrate.

there’s about 40 replies in this thread alone bfto wotlk fuck off faggot

stfu u wod faggot

GOD TIER
Vanilla
GOOD TIER
Legion, TBC, mop
DECENT TIER
wrath
SHIT TIER
cata, wod

BFA is a wildcard, it was complete shit on release, kinda decent right now and 8.2 has a lot of actually good changes for once, they also haven't completely abandoned it like wod.
It could either join the decent/shit tier or jump to good depending on future content

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>the expansion that brought us s5 dks, rocket tag pvp, aoe spam 5 mans, all of tier 7's trash or recycled content, toc, ICC being 75% trash, the new lfg tool and gearscore addon was better

This is a garbage low effort post

this is accurate

So did I. I was 8 and a half years old and was my first MMO. I could never get a character past level 20 because of my 8 year old autism. Shit was really fun though.

>leveling was shit

Imagine having this much shit taste. BE and Draenei starting zones are the best zones ever put into WoW.

I went through vashj'ir and even though it sucked I just chalked it up to being the expansion's bad zone

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imagine being butthurt by someones opinion

what a queer

Put Wrath on B tier or move MoP down, they're on the same level.

Nope. Soda got big in cata. Reck got big in wotlk. Kys trash

The problem with TBC severs is that Blizzard will no doubt put TBC servers on 2.4.3, since they only backed up the latest version, so it's really frustrating when people like Asmongold who didn't even play TBC try to promote it over Classic+ & his massive fanbase follows likewise

2.4.3 was fucking bad man, removed attunements, too much catch up gear & welfare gear, nerfed lots of cool items & made it only Tier 6 be relevant (SO CANCEROUS) nerfed AV while making it Alliance favoured, Illidan was made so easy that you could skip his fucking demon phase, Muru was also nerfed to be faceroll, etc etc

tl'dr If they add in TBC servers, you would be experiencing a really easy mode

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>TBC has dailies
>Introduces 58102382 different meme difficulties
>KILLS BASED WPVP THE ONLY REASON TO PLAY WOW
>lolarenaslol
>No hybrid tax
>Introduces badge aka hyper welfare cuck gear
OMG TBC SO GOOD LEMME SNIFF THOSE TOES Cx
>Literally all non-fashnilla does the same
OMG THIS IS POOP!!!!!!

>Disneys expansion B

well F tier is 100% accurate at least

imagine knowing what a loser

no the meme difficulties didnt start till ulduar

This is true, the end of TBC changes were shit, though I still think them going into TBC is better than any Classic+ content nu-Blizzard could cook up.

>World PvP was all over the place in BC
>Post-arena
>Post-best in slot being arena gear

tbc shouldn't be over mists
too early to judge bfa

The only redeeming quality of ToC was the heroic mode limited tries shit and no trash.
>inb4 some faggot screeches how raid trash is great

FOR THE GLORY OF QUAIL DE LA

>one other difficulty is 59278348729742 meme difficulties

it’s like I actually played tbc and not a rping faggot like 90% of people posting in this thread

There is nothing Wrath does that Pandas doesn't do twice as well.

>both have piss easy AoE fest dungeons, but at least Pandas doesn't have Occulus
>Pandas raids blow Wrath's out of the water, Ulduar is the only one that can compete
>Pandas questing is far superior
>Monk class > DK
>PvP much better state than Wrath. No horrendous unbalanced periods like S5 DKs or S9 ArPen
>Actual good outdoor content besides dailies

Fucking Grind of MoteCraft

Wrath didn't have as many obnoxious dailies as Pandaland and it had better leveling, and DKs were a better addition than Monks were, which nobody fucking plays.

shut up loser boy .. rofl 30 year old watching twitch streams and their biography

mop pvp was the best it was ever been since vanilla
Classes felt so fucking different from each other, locks are STILL seething that they can't have mop locks bad

>H-huroic dun ccount cuz me love those tbc draenie and elfie toeis Cx
Your cock is as big as your IQ, 1 single digit under 3 lmao
KYS.

MAGA!!!!

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>itt we never played a wow expansion much less much altogether we just shit on the game, we're nostalrius babies trying to make our time invested worth wack by spamming hate threads.

MoP ruined the talent system, had boring zones, a shitty theme, the worst dungeons of any expac, a meme race based on a fucking easter egg. I mean theres just so many terrible things about it but MoP babies insist it's good because they started in Cata and/or are furfags.

>arpen
Fuck, you made me remember that cancerous stat. It was bad enough in tbc when it was flat then they made it even fucking worse in wrath

imagine thinking twitch was a thing in 2008

frothing

have sex.

And Classic is 1.13 and people are eating it up. People that want old expansions don't care about difficulty, they only care about eating shit with the right label.

>yo dude dailies fucking suck
>*loves MoP*
You Pandaniggers and your doublethink.

All the good TBC content could be added into Classic honestly

>Kara as 10 man catch up raid, not surpassing Naxx
>Ghostlands questing zone (Not sure on Blood Elf race & maybe not make it level 10-20 to skip Barrens)
>Some 2.0 talent trees to make some underpowered specs better
>Zul'Aman, because why not, got to have more Troll raids

Outland can piss off & so can Sunwell, defeating Kil'Jaeden was massive power creep

>MoP ruined the talent system
True, but inevitable. They couldn't extend the trees indefinitely, and Cata's trees were a resounding failure.
>had boring zones, a shitty theme, the worst dungeons of any expac
Nice wrong opinions.
>a meme race based on a fucking easter egg
Nice non-criticism.

2/10 try again.

>defeating Kil'Jaeden was massive power creep
you didn't even really defeat him though in his actual form you just shoved him back in the Sunwell before he could come through.

1.12 did made the game easier, but 2.4.3 took it to another level & it really felt like Blizzard wanted everyone to beat BT & Sunwell before Wrath

Dilate~

Sorry kike, I am a white, aryan, cis, straight national socialist I only love a white man's game, classic.
The best game ever made, a game for white men, by white men.
NO KIKES.
NO FEMOIDS.
NO TRANNIES.
NO NONWHITES.

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I loved outland because you can summon people right off the edge of the world

>those netherwing rep dailies
tbc endgame was terrible

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>posts an image showing that everybody quit post-cata to prove TBC was bad
getting real desperate aren't you

>free 3k gold
oh the horror

>zoomer doesnt know whats justin tv

Alright It seems I made an error.

thats how i felt about defeating cthun then goin to fight the lich kings little bitch servant

dont think my server ever even downed KT in vanilla

this, they are what stopped me from having sex in high school

Still, after illidan & kil'jaeden, people expected to be able to kill bad asses all the time, now 10 retards are gonna kill queen azshara, it's like krillin killing beerus

Blackrock Foundry was legit fun, Highmaul and HFC were hit and miss though. Ko'ragh was neat, and most of the 2nd half of HFC was good.

faggots like you are exactly why i played alliance in vanilla KEK

Effin' based I think...

MAKE AZEROTH GREAT AGAIN

MAGA!!!!

yeah but it's hardly worse than killing c'thun

WOW is for loser boys

kel'thuzad was awesome & c'thun was a husk, husk being kind more like a shadow of his former self

Because you're a white natsoc instead of a welfare negroid lover (horde)?

Wanna know how I know you're an LFR babby?

I dunno about HFC because I quit five months into WoD permanently. Haven't played WoW since but BRF was amazing. Highmaul was whatever to me, but it had some fun fights.

If someone kills Azshara with 10 they are gods since Blizzard don't balance for 10 and it's usually a complete shitshow like Helya

no i just think edgelords are closet fags

see

*20 retards
I just wonder what they'll pull out afterwards to top her. BfA's already pretty weird in that killing Jaina in BoD is apparently harder than killing an """""old god""""" in Uldir.

Even now I wonder if I've missed out by not even trying it once. Everyone and their mom keeps talking about Wow Classic to the point I'm hearing my ears bleed.

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All the content in WOD was great, the problem is there wasn't enough because the expansion was abandoned when Rob Pardo left

most of tbc content WAS gonna be added to classic.
Karazhan was the first instance ever mapped

if c'thun being a husk is an acceptable excuse then why is punting back KJ before he can fully form not?

>c'thun was a husk
I want to say there was even some old lore that the qiraji built that body for him, but in Blizzard's post-Chronicle bullshit lore the Old Gods are just literal giant octopuses so haha the coolest explanation is, as always, the definitively non-canon one.

>never played WoW in 15 years
So which one are you too young too old or poor?

I'm 23 right now, so I fall in the too young category without a doubt. And I'm sure as much as it'll piss off everyone my first MMO was oldschool Maplestory.

>didn't jew people selling egg spawns

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Among the top 5 best things about Classic is that there will be no blood elves, if Blizzard even jokes about putting them in Classic I'm unsubbing on the spot.

Are there any good mmo rpgs? I've only played bdo and destiny if that counts.

I could see it as an April Fools day joke from them.

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Honestly they should just tune Kara, ZA, and Ulduar for level 60 and release them in season 2 of classic. Just make them the raids you run after Naxx.

>Outland can piss off & so can Sunwell, defeating Kil'Jaeden was massive power creep
>Muh humble adventurer posting
In vanilla you had taken out 1. The lord and lady of a dragon-flight 2. The Elemental Lord of Fire 3. the most powerful lich who has ever existed on any world ever (canon btw) and 5. AN OLD GOD.

Please take the humble adventurer nostalgia wank goggles off please PCs in WoW were always snowflakes.

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Even in Chronicles lore characters take credit for that and you are just a grunt like in a WC3 mission. And since Legion you are official Champion of the faction.

>Ulduar
How the fuck would you get all the way to Northend and way up there? The raids after Naxx should be
>Kara, 10 man catch up raid around BWL tier loot
>Grim Batol, new raid. 40 man if they want that amount of people still or drop that shit down to 25 no flex
>Quel'Thalas is opened up as a high level questing zone for both factions, meant to bridge the story of how the BE joined the Horde. Zul'Aman and a dungeon here
At some point, also open up Gilneas but obviously no playable Worgen or shit like that.

Toss in Caverns of Time and that Old God area in Tirisfal as well

In Legion you get the fucking Ashbringer, fuck current WoW, they made everyone a super hero

>CoT
gonna miss it in Classic lads

>BE joined the Horde
and you already fucked it up

Also Ulduar was suppose to be an island at one point

So twitch wasn't a thing, thank you for conceding.

No they don't chronicles canon changed basically nothing except dividing up with faction gets credit for what.

The Horde killed Nef and Hakkar and most dungeons
The Alliance took out KT, C'thun, BRD and sunken temple
Swagnaros got double teamed. It was still 'heroes' of the faction though so yeah WoW PCs were special snowflakes from day one.

Anyone screeching LE HUMBLE ADWEVENTURWTS PPRRFFFLFLTLFLFLF is brain fucking dead and would un-ironically "love" a game where you spend all the time taking care of children while the game insults you about being useless.

Most of this was BC.

Ask me anything.

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Yeah not like in vanilla where the PC only killed an old god, the firelord, the head of a dragonflight, the blood god of the trolls, and the head lich of the scourge.
What a fucking nobody.

I didn't say they would join in Classic, but its inevitable people would vote on more races or classes in a few years.

I also don't want either faction to be able to go into SMC, at all.

But draenei is the best race in the game. TBC can't be that bad.

>ogri'la
>netherwing
>the sky guard people in terrokar

There were dailies user, don't be retarded.

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>Calling 25 man dungeon a "raid"

A raid is no less than 40 people and only Vanilla has raiding.

the content in COT was a bit of a let down honestly, very boring, Hyjal & Morass were just wave after wave

There is nothing to ask to TBC babbies.

man horde purists hate pretty races the way a queer hates a pretty woman

really makes you think

Or maybe they don't like how all the Alliance trannies flooded into Horde when belves were introduced?

Nothing wrong with protecting your faction from getting swarmed by girls

yeah they prefer more masculine anal sex
bears right?

I am playing it now on Netherwing and holy shit is it stacked against melee dps. There are some bossfight phases where melee have to deliberately stand out of boss's reach and do nothing while warlocks do 2k dps just by spamming shadow bolt.

Are you illiterate? Or just a moron? How do you equate
>liking gay sex
with
>not liking the shitstain human beings who play belves

Is there a single TBC dungeon that isn't essentially a straight line?

Mechanar technically.
Though functionally it's still basically a straight line.

NO SHOES

Except for Kara.

More like is there a any other dungeon in WoW besides BRD?

i postulate that the shitstains were always the orcs tauren trolls and ESPECIALLY undead

ACTUAL CONFIRMED CONTENT THEY PLANNED FOR VANILLA BUT NEVER CAME TO PASS/GOT DELAYED TO LATER CONTENT
>ulduar continent
>uldum
>caverns of time
>karazhan
>Karazhan crypts
>Bael Modan instance
>Aszhara crater bg
>Dragon Isles
>Quel'Thalas
>Emerald dream (both as a replacement to what eventually became shadowlands as we die, emerald dream was supposed to be this leveling zone where you can quest when dead and you could see and interact with key lore figures of wc1/2/3 that died, some remnants of this remained in vanilla) and as a raid/zone
>Hyjal
>2 unknown Hyjal instances
>Hellfire peninsula
>Kezan/Undermine
>Kobold kingdom raid
>in game card game a la gwent, mobs/bosses would drop cards and players could assemble a deck with them and play with anyone, with a ranked mode on taverns/inns, this concept eventually became hs
>Grim Batol
>Island of Doctor Lapidis dungeon
>Kalidar bg
>Furbolg dungeon in Teldrassil, entrace was in that one furbolg cave, was meant to be alliance counterpart to ragefire
>Player housing
>Stormwind Vault
>Demon Hunters
>Necromancers
>Death Knights

CONTENT THAT'S POSSIBLE THAT WAS ONCE IN THE PLANS BUT NOT YET CONFIRMED BY DEVS, WE JUST KNOW THEM BY DATAMINING/ASSETS LEFT BEHIND

>Underwater instance in aszhara
>empty zones in several areas such as around zul gurub, redridge/burning, lordaeron, etc
>Hall of Thanes, aka, old Ironforge
>Black Temple or a raid that functions as Black Temple
>Tiger cove
>Gilneas
>Gillijim's Isle
>Northrend
>Shatterspear Village
>Zul'Dare
>Kul'Tiras

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Scholo, Strath, Mara. Uldaman, WC.

>Horde takes over an dominates the Kill races for every tier in every expansion forever once bleves are introduced
>Before this the alliance outnumbered horde guilds 4 to 1
Me thinks sir doth protest too much.

Flying ruined not only WoW, but also every MMO to come after it.

Here let me fix that for you.
>Horde takes over an dominates the Kill races for every tier in every expansion forever once they get Paladins
Has nothing to do with belves.

>Netherwing
How is it? I am considering playing it to play as draenei shaman.

But there was a genuine server community that made it fun to come back and spend time with your friends in a living virtual world.

That's why people remember and enjoy it - not because of the actual content. It was just a good facilitator of having fun with friends.

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Decent so far in my experience. Good way to kill time until Classic.

male Draenei has the absolute worst walking animation in the game. It's like Blizz really really wanted you to be a chick.

>void purple or fel green
>flying
>arenas
Kill me

yup. flying mounts were a mistake. allowing all cowards to act as rogues and choose every single fucking fight.

It's pretty decent. Despite it being a TBC server 1-60 content is best scripted out of all classic servers I've played. But it being a TBC and with a few mechanical screw ups (fumbled elemental resistances working worse than they should) and having some bosses buffed makes for a very jarring endgame experience unless you're one of the "meta" specs.

>arenas
>flying mounts
>daily quests
>badge gear
>YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE storylines

TBC started the downfall of WoW, it just took people like 12 years to figure it out.
If we're being objective, classic WoW and WotLK WoW are the only versions that deserve to exist.

>and WotLK WoW
nice fucking try wrath baby

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Thanks I will check it out when I get my new pc.

>Only belevs could be pallies
>That silence though
>70% of the horde
COPE

>and WotLK WoW

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Kinda confused how the rep grinding in vanilla is better than daily quests. Daily quests are a million times better than grinding mobs. If TBC is 90% daily quests then vanilla is 90% grinding mobs. Daily quests were only for some shitty mounts in TBC, not really sure how that's 90% of the content.

I would still like a bael modan dungeon, they even have a map for it

>the Wrath babies are back

Looks like you need to be disabused again.

>arenas
>flying mounts
>daily quests
Are all still in Wrath
>badge gear
is 10x worse in Wrath
>YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE story lines
is 50x worse in Wrath

Meanwhile:
>worse raids than TBC
>worse dungeons than TBC
>worse PvP balance than TBC let that sink in, Wrath is worse thatn the shitshow that was S2 Warlocks and S4 druids

Go drown yourself wrathbaby.

>Everyone ignoring these cancerous fucks killing the horde

Fuck TBC.

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2.1 patch is going to launch on 16th June and the devs are going to enable x2 experience rate to help new players catch up with oldtimers. This might scar "m-m-muh pure experience" but believe me, levelling and getting geared when you're a fresh 70 is quite a hassle when main part of the playerbase is have already gotten everything they want from Karazhan and are working on BT attunements.

This
TBC will always be shit for causing the Horde to be populated by alliancebabbies who wanted to play barbie

>YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE
Not like in vanilla where you kill Ragnaros, Netharian, fight back the emerald nightmare, stop hakkar slurping up every mortal on azeroth, stop the bugs, kill an old god and then slap KT's punk ass back to northrend.
What a shit tier nobody you were.

>can't refute the truth
>b-but the silence...

Yeah man I'm sure that silence is so fucking useful in raids compared to bloodfury or berserking. Off yourself.

>Flying Mounts killed World PvP
>Arenas were trash and a bad direction for PvP
>Too much grinding
>Raids locked behind rep grinds with shitty quests
>50% of the content were unnecesary capitol cities and starting zones
>Blood Elves killed the Horde's SOUL

Go fuck yourselves TBC had problems as well. Oh also just because you were too bad and couldn't afford flying doesn't mean they killed WPvP you were just shit at the game.

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gating, long quest chains & grinding let people who put in the time get ahead, dailies & their gating let casuals log in once a day to get something good after a few weeks

tbc sucked too, doesn't excuses wrath being even worse

It's the same debate right now. Some people just prefer to grind furbolgs for hours instead of getting 100 rep a day from dailies for months.

HATE ELVES

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>salvaging horde
fixed
Horde got at least one race that any sane person wouldn't puke at when playing.

youtube.com/watch?v=ljAOgWK8NOI

You know the big difference?
No sucks your dick over this. By extension no one sucks the dick of your alt Newbslayzer who never did any of that. Classic leaves it ambiguous who actually killed these big bads. You may never have been canonically involved.

Horde is suppose to be the monster faction, if you want humanoids & elves, go Alliance

nothing in BC was ever as bad as Wrath introducing the dungeon queue, or as lazy as Trial of the Crusader.

you could get ashbringer in fucking vanilla. wow pcs have always been super heroes.

>wanting pretty races in a faction called the Horde
you're part of the problem faggot
stay on the alliance where you belong

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The dungeons being linear hallways in TBC was shit too, it's like they saw people loved deadmines & were like "lets do that for every dungeon"

And it wasn’t even legendary.

So put both ways in. I don't see the problem. When wearing tabards gave you rep to whatever faction the tabard was for was the best. Tabards being an exalted reward is retarded.

>mfw people like you (mostly South Koreans) complained about the horde having no "pretty races"

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>Arcane torrent was changed from a silence to an interrupt because it was too OP
>It was then changed from an interrupt to a dispel because it was too OP
>Noshoes honestly think belfs aren't the reason their faction is popular or good a pve.
Does it hurt know the horde willingly took the belf cock.

Actually BC dungeons are based off Scarlet Monastery design. Short wings with a couple bosses.

DRUCHADS WW@

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Vanilla was great, but TBC is where the most fun was at. Still have fond memories of doing the charger quest for my BE paladin..

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I never touched a private server and Quel Danas was fuck as fuck of WPvP.
What fucking game did you play?

>blood elf player is a frogposter
what a shock

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>tfw as a horde player since wc2, absolutely love blood elf lore and kael thas is your favorite character
>tfw they made belves into a walking joke, instead of the rune bound, scarred warrior we see on the cover they literally made them into a walking flamboyant homosexual race
>then they proceed to completely buttfuck kael thas and the race forever
>then proceed to always keeping them "there" because without kael they have no voice, no direction, no reason or future
>tfw can't play blood elf without being called a faggot even when literally every other character I have is a troll/orc
>tfw can't play blood elf without a constant hidden contempt for the race and how blizz handled them because of tbc and thus can't even fully enjoy them myself

I hate this fucking game

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Triggered bitch boy?

PvP was at it's most fun for me ever during TBC, with WotLK being 2nd place.
I would play an Official TBC server in a heartbeat and I don't care for Vanilla WoW at all.

Mained Warlock with Holy Paladin on the side.

just let me dream user

T H I S

The only vanilla dungeon that isn't basically a hallway is BRD... Maybe ZF, but everyone always went the same way anyway. MAYBE Sunken Temple if you stretch it, but that was basically just 2 circle hallways. BRD is the only dungeon where you could go in there and do so much shit every time was different.

charger is classic content, you retarded frog poster

>abused paladins in wrath
>that means wrath is second best!
wrath was legit one of the worst expansions of all time when it came to pvp
For the first half dks were completely assraping everything and for the second half they just swapped them for paladins, while dks were still too strong

Before you read this list:
1. anything past MoP (or even late in MoP) I'm judging purely off maps I never played it
2. this is not an endorsement of Blizz, or saying that any of these are good, merely that they have at least some options in order/path

Mara (technically 2 overlapping lines)
The Barrens one with snakes
The Ogre one - North (do not argue with me on this one I know it's a series of big open rooms but that's the point, you can evade them for tribute runs)
Uldaman
Strath
Stockade
Zul Farrak (it's a loop)
Sunken Temple (original)
LBRS
AQ (can't remember which one, maybe both?)
Naxx
Nexus
Oculus
Arguably Ahn'Kahet Old Kingdom
That really short raid dungeon under the PVP zone in WOTLK that is like a + shape
Firelands
Temple of Jade Serpent
Lost City of Tolvir
Halls of Origination (mostly a line but final 4 can be attempted any order iirc)
ZG
ZA
Baradin Hold (same as the WOTLK PVP one, this is a + so you can do it in any order)
Auchindoun (WoD - lets you attempt first 2 bosses in either order)
Blackrock Foundary
Slag Mines (first 3 bosses can be done any order)
Highmaul
Everbloom
Emerald Nightmare
Eye of Azshara
Arcway, Court of Stars, Nighthold
VotW
Kara
Waycrest Manor

Christ, you put way too much thought into it man. Just play whatever the fuck you want. Nobody cares.

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fuq yo dream nibba

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What are you fucking on about? The official canon is a group of horde 'champions' killed nef. PCs weren't more or less canonically involved in taking down yogg or Lady Vaashj.

Basically every kill except for stuff like ony and arthas have always canonically been a group of 'champions' taking the kill.

>wahh other people mean to my race
Quit being a bitch

is there anything more cringe than >MUH MONSTER FACTION SEKRIT KLUB NO GRLS ALLOWED

Lets not forget the awful burst comps like beast cleave, the sleep comps like RMP, or the cancer of ArPen stacking.

Another triggered little bitch.

paladins and dks were op at the same time, just no one gave a shit about paladins being op since dks were literally spamming one button to kill people

>cringe
fuck off plebbit

>is there anything more cringe than

Yes. Blood Elf players. Checkmate.

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I fucking care
and that's what makes it worse, because of how fucking bad they handled the race and how hard they butchered it yet no one gives a fucking SHIT
NO ONE CARES
BECAUSE NO ONE PLAYS BELVES BECAUSE THEY LIKE THE RACE, THEY PLAY IT BECAUSE THEY'RE PRETTY SO BLIZZ IS ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH THIS GARBAGE
FUCK

My Holy Paladin was strictly for PvE.
I ran WLD in 3s for all 4 seasons of Wrath at around 2300-2500 rating.
In 2s I played LockSpriest at around 2200

Paladin PvP is really boring.

Whatever fag. You're a metrosexual Joe Dirt on your best day.

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>official canon
Okay show me five in-game instances of NPCs in Classic sucking off your character for killing C'thun.

Go.

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Yea thats great and all but I bet you played a fucking rogue in Vanilla and here you are moaning about class "quirks" and hybrids like a faggot.

>THEY PLAY IT BECAUSE THEY'RE PRETTY SO BLIZZ IS ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH THIS GARBAGE
Most people played Belf because Mana Tap and Arcane Torrent were fucking amazing.
Not to mention free crit.

If only orcs actually looked this cool and not lile some ugly green niggers, then we could have agreed..

Fanboy NPCs in Paladin class hall mention old gods, that should count

>BECAUSE NO ONE PLAYS BELVES BECAUSE THEY LIKE THE RACE, THEY PLAY IT BECAUSE THEY'RE PRETTY SO BLIZZ IS ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH THIS GARBAGE
>FUCK

Dude the race was made for 2 reasons.

to bring alliance players into the horde
and
to make the Asians happy about playing horde

Maybe your Orc looks like a fag.

Soon as I get that Hide Chest trangsmog patch I'll be complete.

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Are you retarded? Caelestrasz does exactly that which you would know if you ever played vanilla past level 35.

Based Asians not settling for ugly faggot races like Troll and Orc.
Tauren are cool though

The purity of classic shall not be touched. BC fags need to die, off with their heads i say !

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Worst thing about TBC was that I raided as a fucking resto shaman. From kara to sunwell
>downranked chain heal

PvP was fun, communities were fucking amazing, no sharting, no lfg shit, dailies got tedious but they weren't really bad until sunwell came out. Flying mounts were new and awesome, you had chicks banging guys for epic flying gold and getting a special mount like a netherdrake was a real big deal.

Seeing people shit on TBC is weird since it has always been known as a good expansion and I think people are just being contrarians for no good reason.

>Soon as I get that Hide Chest trangsmog patch
Pathetic.

That's 1. I'm waiting.

>Blizzard makes a fuck ton of money on Vanilla
>not making TBC server to make another fuck ton of money

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Mostly shitty rogues mad that someone's friend could fly to them and shut down their camping or that the person could revive and fly away

Sorry user, not all of us need to hide behind armor

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>I think people are just being contrarians for no good reason.
That's always been the case with Yea Forums. Just dumb underage shitters and aspergers manchildren.

>TBC servers release
>He doesn't roll druid to sell Raven Lord runs

Yikes.

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Caelestrasz does because he starts the quest to kill c'thun. He then gives you another quest to go talk to Anachronos who also sucks your dick and gives you a purple.
There is only two npcs but it doesn't matter, I doubt there a 5 npcs that praise you for killing yogg or anything else. Besides this is goal post shifting.

The reality is Vanilla PCs were special snowflakes like every other expansion and to say otherwise is misremembered nostalgia wank.

Furryshitters gonna FREAK when Gilgoblins gets announced as the next horde allied race.

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>flying mounts were awesome

even blizzard admits they were a mistake

Blizzard is also fucking retarded.

The worst part about current wow is that blizz itself knows its a mistake but cant fix it without ruining it for casuals
From lfr to flying, constant mistakes in their own words

>Gilblins
>Not Hobgoblins

It's like you WANT recycled shit

>tfw was too much of a lazy fuck to get the actually good TBC title
>live in constant regret every time I think of playing again

Just like badges, no one that actually played then thought they were a problem.

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vulpera are in and you know it. deal with it.

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Do you expect anything else from Blizzard? It's literally their #1 business model.

Sorry child, at least you have your fanart..

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What I expect from them and what I expect them to do are two totally different things.

I 100% expect Blizzard fans to be okay with the recycled shit squeezed out on their plate though

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Flying mounts are fine if they would just build the zones with flying in mind instead of just making zones and then adding in flying for no reason

No argument there. I just enjoy the asshurt from furries.

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honestly who needs npcs mirin your boss kills? you have a realm full of pcs doing that anyway.

I... Why does this exist?

Nah wrath was trash outside of ulduar. Naxx doesn't count, it's just a reuse and the only good fight in icc is the lich King.

They're just placeholders for the upcoming goblin model rework. Pretty much expect gilgoblins to be announced at the same date.

I played bloodelf to be a dickass elf with Liquid's voice.

WHY? Goblins suck ass

I would move LK to b with mop and put legion in C. Legion was definitely better than cata

timeless isles was better desu

I don't think so. In any case, it's better than furrygarbage.

WAIT. They still haven't updated goblins and worgen? They said they were gonna do that like middle of wod

>Oh yeah the GREAT RAID OF TOC.
Was there a WoW raid worse than ToC?

Nah, as someone that genuinely thinks mop was peak nu wow, you're wrong. Quel'danas was top tier island kino.

It's not happening, gilgoblins are a meme race of the many "new" races they add every expansion.
Vulpera are literally fully rigged and work with most armor and have been getting constant updates to match player models.
And vulpera has an icon for brewfest festival, that alone seals the deal

People are just in denial

They also said we were gonna get a dance studio like 4 times

If you get it, fine. But never expect Blizzard to actually follow through on anything unless they make a big fucking deal about it (because they will if they had to put even the smallest amount of work into it)

Dragon Soul but it's shitty in a different way

Hyjal
Dragon soul

a noble vulpera warchief is what the horde needs in these trying times

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>vulpera
>not a meme race
You would be crazy to think they would add a filler race like the Vulpera. Their models aren't even detailed, especially with their faces.

queldanas was most certainly more aesthetic
but the pvp on timeless was more ruthless. maybe it was just my servers tho

Christ they are ugly.

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It wont happen.

It seems to have escaped people, but Allied Races are modifications of existing races, nothing new. It would make most sense to make water gobbos, considering the two new zones will be nazjatar and mechagon. Each zone introducing a new allied race.

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Reminder that TBC Classic Server is doomed to fail because TBC only lasted 1 year, 9 months, 28 days. Literally a blink of an expansion. Blame Blizzard not me.

AND YES IM MAKING A VIDEO ABOUT IT AND YES IM GONNA POST IT ON HERE DEAL WITH IT

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>Wrath/Cata babies still pretending they played Vanilla and how TBC WAS THE WORST expansion ever

How cute. It's funny how easy it is to spot that none of you actually TBC when the first word that comes out of your mouth is ''Flying killed world pvp'' and ''Lore got worse''

Reins of the Raven Lord summons Raven Lord, an epic ground mount that requires 150 Riding skill to ride. It looks like a hybrid between a raptor and bird, however, as a ground mount, it does not actually allow the rider to fly.

Best mount ever

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It will fail because it's a proto BFA, you will sit in shat waiting for a q to pop after you do your dailies, it's fucking boring

You also need to be a druid to spawn the boss. Or did you forget?

He's one of those retards that considers the "garbage bin" talent trees like Demo warlock or Arcane mage to be "soul" simply because they contained broad early investment options for synchronizations with the other trees.
He probably also believes Blizzard's "hybrid tax" theory was anything other than Blizzard trying to bury the fact that Warriors were badly designed in gameplay wise in vanilla and not an absolutely terrible idea they devalued over half the classes.

TBC was shit. The only reason TBC is remembered is because:
>Suddenly even casuals and retards got to raid
>Suddenly even absolute casuals had access to epics with rep rewards and heroics
>Suddenly even total casuals who played certain combos could get full gladiator gear through arena by literally playing 20 games per week sitting around in a capital
>Suddenly even casuals could fly around and farm materials without risking certain death by ganking

and the biggest reasons of them all

>Suddenly the biggest meme specs were viable in TBC and the retards who unironically were boomkin/ret pala could actually play the game
>Suddenly the millenial invasion allowed the now 15-18 year olds to actually reach lvl 70, due to a massive abundance of quests in clearly defined zones

TBC is trash and Im someone who raided everything and got full gladi gear until S4 with a fucking enhancement shaman.

Go tell it to Asmongold. Who sucks TBC dick all day long.

Retards could always raid.
Casuals couldn't even clear heroic mana tombs until the end of the expansion
Personal rating existed
You had to dismount to grind motes and the best spots were pvpfests
There's literally not a single goddamn thing wrong with opening specs to viability
It was never a challenge to hit level cap in vanilla

Flying making rare nodes less valuable is a big problem too, another thing that took the "World" out of WoW, far less PVP fights for resources

No what are you talking about? Retards on here spout "WORLD PVP DIDNT DYE CUZ I WUZ TOO FUCKING BAD TO BUY FLYING DURRRR"

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As much as I hated welfare epics, think for a moment about how selling an expansion that was merely an extension of engame play would work out.
>Buy an expansion, literally have to clear all of the former games peak raids to play its content
That sort of bottleneck is so incredibly great that I could not see any sane company going that route no matter how pro "hardcore" they are.
Then again, it was blizzards mistake dumping most of the gameplay into raid content.

>Retards could always raid.
I hope you enjoy your first vanilla experience now that classic comes around.
>Casuals couldn't even clear heroic mana tombs until the end of the expansion
Nonsense.
>Personal rating existed
And? You play 20 games around 1800-2000 and you get an item each week.
>You had to dismount to grind motes and the best spots were pvpfests
Oh you mean the 2-3 spawn points of fire/air elementals? Wow! So much pvp fun.
>There's literally not a single goddamn thing wrong with opening specs to viability
Did I say its bad? Im pointing out that people who were literal green geared ret palas in vanilla, suddenly were pretty decent in TBC (with access to easy epics) and therefore remember it fondly.
>It was never a challenge to hit level cap in vanilla
Except it fucking was. Most people took 6 months to get to 60. Only the very few hardcores who got to play beta, or who transfered from EQ hit 60 within 1 month.

Ill say it again. The only people who claim TBC to be superior to vanilla are the same people who are one of the following:
>a) Never reached 60 in vanilla
>b) Never got to raid in vanilla
>c) Played a meme spec throughout vanilla
>d) Were shit at farming gold in vanilla
>e) Finally got some epics from retard heroics in TBC

Ah yes, fighting for 3 spawn points of air and fire elementals is the definition of world pvp.

Im going to speak some truth.

The 1-60 experience is what made WOW popular for the 6 years it was king of the MMOs.

Its what hooked new players and kept them playing, it was solid, it had a good reward structure, you got a talent every level, new abilities every 2, gear mattered, ect, this got people hooked on the core gameplay of WOW and made them enjoy it as an RPG.

The end game of WOW has always been a clusterfuck, and blizzard has been trying to make the end game 'hardcore' as early as 1.3 when they started capping group sizes, the biggest problem is it is a themepark MMO, but unlike everquest where all the content was spread out across the world, end game WOW was just dungeons and raids, dungeons and raids.

This is why I am going to enjoy classic, the 1-60 gameplay will be back, not because of the shitty rank 14 grind or raid logging once my character is BiS, but everything on the way to that point.

But at the end of the day, WOW has always suffered from a mediocre end game, everyone I knew quit because of the end game, either because it was too bothersome for them to schedule raid slots, or because an expansion, or patch made all their effort obsolete, such as 3.2, wow has always lacked end game content that was player driven to keep people interested long term, and you can't blame most people quitting because of WOTLK when they catapulted everyone to end game with heirlooms, nerfed EXP rates, and dungeon finder.

OP quit WoW after 1.12

>The average demographic of vanilla players was 28 year old men and 32 year old women
>"HURR LETS MAKE THE GAME HARDCORE"

The beginning of the end. Changed a lot for the better but introduced a lot of shit that would ultimately destroy the game. Everything following was "one step forward, two steps back".
>mfw people unironically want BC and WotLK classic servers

Hyjal is an abortion
Dragon soul is a giant pile of what the fuck is this?

TOC get way worse of a rep than it deserves, it was fine for what it was, a trashless bossrush, and most the bosses were fine. What it shouldve been was a side raid to Ulduar, not a fucking tier of its own.

>But at the end of the day, WOW has always suffered from a mediocre end game
And thats where I disagree. While raids and dungeons can become "tedious" in the raidlog sense, thats because YOU dont have things to do. WoW isnt only about getting to experience raids, its also about exploring the world, fighting Alliance/Horde for the sake of fighting and lastly, to immerse yourself in a virtual world.

>Phase 1
>MC and Ony
Going to be a shitshow in any contested zone. World PVP galore with absolutely insane Blackrock mountain and Hillsbrad pvp.
>Phase 2
>PVP system, Dire Maul and Kazzak/Azuregos
Even more insane world pvp, now that people can only grind honor by fighting in the world
>Phase 3
>BWL
.
.
.

I played vanilla starting at patch 1.8. By the end of vanilla I did have an epic mount because warlock, my guild cleared up to ebonroc, nothing that accomplished. We had 7 people you could swear were handless but we liked them enough to keep them around; trust me retards could raid. No hitting 60 wasn't a challenge. And no casuals couldn't clear heroic mana tombs, shadow labs or shattered halls when they were relevent.

Can they just release classic open beta now?
Holyfuck just hurry up

>Uldum
>Karazhan/Crypts
>Bael Modan
>Emerald Dream
>Hyjal (and instances)
>Undermine
>proper Grim Batol
>Stormwind Vault
Fuck yes, please please please
>Kobold kingdom
>Furbolg dungeon
>Lapidis dungeon
>Azshara Crater
Would be fine with this
>Dragon Isles
might actually be put in retail soon
>More classes
Huge mistake, Classic should just be the original 9.

Man i really don't want BG's in WoW, fighting all over the world was fun & dynamic, doing the same BG's that we still have in BFA is boring
I wish more people would fight against BG's, except maybe AV pre nerf, that would be good

There will never be a raid worse than Dragon Soul

>But at the end of the day, WOW has always suffered from a mediocre endgame

This is where TBC fuked up expansion made all the focus on end game. Where it should have expanded the social elements of the game. I remember going to a therapist in 2006 and that dick head asked me do you have any friends and I explained about wow and he said to me and I still remember to this day "that's where you get your social interaction?" Yes. Wow was supposed to be a Social Hub 4 nerds on a video game and it was great. Not a race to the end and who can get better gear

>my guild cleared up to ebonroc
So youre saying that by patch 1.10? Your guild of 10 retards (holding you back) were not managing to raid past probably 1/4th of the raid content in WoW? Interesting.

>No hitting 60 wasn't a challenge.
Just repeat your statement again without a counter argument and ignoring actual facts.

>And no casuals couldn't clear heroic mana tombs, shadow labs or shattered halls when they were relevent.
Ok. Youve changed my mind with your compelling arugment.

3.0 DK's were the best designed class ever imo, the current DK in BFA is just depressing, so gutted & un-unique

Flying ruined wow

We were latecomers, we didn't go further because expansion was gonna launch and we stopped during the prepatch. Had we started sooner I'm pretty sure we could've gone to aq40. The fact we had 7 handless players is proof hitting level cap was easy. Have you seen how casuals played? Maybe Detheroc was some anomalous shithole where player skill was far below average but first boss mana labs that by passes armor regularly raped casual tanks, let alone harder heroics like sl and sh

Classic sucks too. Stop playing games.

TBC story is the worst story i ever experienced in a video game. Of course it's a mmo, but still the setting is important. TFT campaign was one of the best, especially the blood elves/illidan/outland/naga.
TBC ruined everything. WoW writers are truly some massive piece of shit.

>World PvP was all over the place in BC.
>during an era where flying mounts exist to escape from PvP
Zoomie please

To be fair that's basically ever class now.

Why did they have to ruin Kael'Thas? Why?

every class is gutted
reducing the amount of skills by like 80% was retarded

Knaak : This guys hates every character from wc3. He ruined the ones he didn't outright kill, like Tyrande, Malfurion, etc at the expense of his shitty OC.
He almost killed Maiev (one of the last character from wc3 alive) in a book to push his OC Jarod who somehow was able to defeat her.

Yeah but they obviously want a console release, so we get a worse game as a result

>Even now I wonder if I've missed out by not even trying it once.
You haven't

BC was the pinnacle of Raid and Art design.

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The trick will be to pick a class that is good during phases 1-2 to enjoy the maximum out of world pvp. Mages, hunters, rogues and enh shamans will reign supreme. Its gonna be a fucking blast.

Back in the day during Hillsbrad pvp my PC could barely handle 60v60 in a small area. Now on 4k 144hz its going to be the absolute dream.

Bgs will sadly change that, but there still will be world pvp in BRM, in Dire Maul, in STV (zg patch), in Silithus (AQ patch)...

Gotta live in the moment in those first 2 phases.

Knaak is a shit writer and originator of some of the worst aspects of WC lore (I.E Dragonflights) but I don't think he's the reason BC decided to turn the Illidian pact into raid bosses. It seems that blizzard just didn't really have an idea for a central story for BC after the initial push back against the legion so they just went with making a few characters villains when they really shouldn't have been.

There is nothing wrong with BGs, the answer to this problem is to provide meaningful reasons for players to get out into the world and do things. This is sadly the answer to nearly every single problem WoW had post Vanilla/BC and it's the one thing Blizzard seems hellbent on removing. It's an MMO, the entire game should be you pushing players to get out there and do stuff, not sit in town.

If you want to get right to the point then you need to add events out in the world that bring people together for the sole purpose of fighting over them, however you have to take your time and design this properly or it becomes a chore/obsolete.

Does anyone remember when the +15 agi on 1h was added? Was it the BWL patch?

I fucking hate how Asmonbald is pushing people towards TBC instead of new Classic content, especially how he brushes off adding back the cut content

Something like Karazhan Crypts as a spooky new dungeon would be so much more interesting than Outland again, how many times have we levelled through Outland since early 2007? it's been done man, for real fuck off with the nostalgia, TBC was focused too much on the end game & the raids/dungeons were not even half as good as BFA mechanically

Depends on what you're referring to. If you mean his BC portrayal in general, it was a side effect of their development of Illidan. If Illidan losing to Arthas drove him completely insane and turned him into a cartoon villain, then his underlings would have to be cartoon villains too. If you're referring to 2.4 specifically, they pulled 2.4 as a whole out of their ass due to poor planning.

Enjoy the 2-3 years of classic man. TBC will be the time to quit.

Way to go idiot. You're ignoring the whole point of trusting Activision Blizzard to make good content that's vanilla like. It will never happen deal with it

the content in BFA is actually good, the problem is the game design isn't

>It's good but it's shit

What is going on with retail players? Are they so brainwashed by shit that they actually think this makes sense?

Its the same with people who have been Star Wars fans since the 80s and "love" the new films, because they have choice.

if you threw the BFA content into Classic, i would be playing BFA

Everyone has also forgotten that they added dailies because players in vanilla constantly whined that there was NOTHING TO DO at endgame except wait to raid once a week

thers nothing wrong with daily quests, desu ive had it with you uppity vanilla niggers.

He and Metzen were behind TBC. Knaak was the main lore writer since vanilla. His shitty books were the thread of the story. In TBC it was the manga with the story of the dragon (this guy is obsessed with dragons) fucking a human blond mage who happened to be the sunwell.

It depends on if you want to think big or small user

>Just want "lost" content added back in
>They could easily do that mixed in during the phases or after Naxx
>Datamining and early exploration videos show the massive amount of content that even 15 years later never made it in
This would be neat but the problem is you're still basing it on the Vanilla mechanics and class design that admittedly leave a lot to be desired. Also you're thinking really short term because if they put effort into adding new content to Vanilla then they obviously aren't using that time to develop a new expansion/timeline for Classic to follow. If they did do this then you'd have a 1-2ish year gap of absolutely no new content as they put everything into the new expansion.

>Think big from the get go
>New content in vanilla would be cool but a whole new expansion/timeline split from Retail is a much better idea
>As noted above you'd have to spend time making this expansion, and assuming they'd have to take time to deliberate on whether or not to even go along with this it might take until Naxx in Classic for them to get the go ahead
>Content wise it makes way more sense to release BC and have players progress through that while the expansion is being worked on
>You'd get all the gameplay and class upgrades from BC and could easily write out any negatives moving forward
>Players wouldn't have a 1-2 year content starved gap while waiting

BC wasn't perfect but it did a great job refining the rough edges of Vanilla, if you're going to go down a new WoW timeline path you'd absolutely want both Vanilla and BC as the foundation.

Thats not why they added it. They added it because CASUALS complained there was no way in hell to get enough gold to pay for an epic mount after playing the game for 2 years.

>likes daily quests
>unironically uses a racial slur as an insult
Checks out

>tbc
>twitch

zoomers all need to fucking hang for talking about shit that happened before they were born

yeah TBC was only good because it was new
although I really loved heroic dungeonsq

Who said anything about expansions? WoW was originally only going to get patches but they realised people would happily pay for expansions too despite the monthly fee

They could add content every few months like OSRS

The absolute state of this post. Lemme guess, youre 23-25?

>legion good

oh yes i sure love losing 60% of my spellbook from MoP on all classes and turning wow into a 4button moba , fucking kill yourself zoomer, worst fucking wow meme of all time that legion is good meme

They wont add shit. If classic is a commercial success, they will release TBC or do another round of "fresh" classic servers.

Classic is gonna overtake BFA, so im hoping they put some resources in Classic + content, but the discussion is being ruined by streamers trying to recapture their happy youth by wanting shitty TBC

If they add anything it would be at most one raid, they aren't going to start throwing in content little by little month by month. It makes far more sense to release content in the expansion format, one large burst of content followed by as you asked for, updates every month or so after that.

It's a tall order but anyone with a brain can see that Retail is up against the wall.

>Old, regardless of quality it's not getting any younger
>As classic has shown us even the casual fanbase has had it with Retail
>Massive piles of bad mechanics sewn into it over the years, impossible to undo
>Has chewed through an insane amount of lore, barely any left for a coherent expansion much less a WoW 2 situation or Warcraft 4

Starting over is honestly the only option they have, and that's only an option if Classic ends up being as popular as people keep saying it'll be.

Expansions are a bad idea for WoW, they create a rush to the new max level content & make everything else outdated, patch by patch mini content is better

So basically itt. Bets fags bored of the game already and now want to progress to tbc

BFA for the win

>Knaak was the main lore writer
I don't believe it, he's not an employee of blizzard, he just writes licensed shit.
You can tell what is Knaak shit and what isn't. For one, Knaak likes his fantasy much closer to generic DND shit where was WC, especially through WoW incorporated much more sci-fi/steam punk elements into the "serious" portions of its setting.
For example, you can tell the Dragon Flights are 100% bonified Knaak. They're designed around a very specific system that mirrors the way Forgotten Realms classifies its different dragon colors.
The dragons are all broken down into having god-like roles (though blatantly inconsistent and nonsensical, some like the Black Dragonflight alluding to things that blizzard never went with like an Underdark equivalent) but are overall isolated and kept at a distance from other elements of WC like the Titans (mainly because you could tell other writers felt the Dragonflights didn't fit well with the overall universe)

Knaak basically doesn't like the WC universe as structured by main game writers and prefers a more much more fantasy motiff, so you get weird shit like Varian Wrynn being an Avatar for Lo'gosh/Goldrinn, that human that can travel between the Emerald Dream because he was "kidnapped by a mysterious fey". Hell, Deathwing's story past WC II regarding the creation of the Dragon Soul just comes off as flowery fantasy tripe mirroring Lord of the Rings.

If anything was the anti-thesis of Knaak, it was BC, which was literally Warcraft in Space the expansion; loaded to the brim with elements reminiscent of 40k's "merger of fantasy and scifi" than anything knaak would enjoy.

Are you retarded? Serious question.

Live is a shit show

Expansions are just how you do it, every MMO does it that way.

The only argument you could have would be the whole level cap raising and having your gear invalidated but honestly that's always been a part of WoW and it's a fact of life. WoW has always been a gear/stat oriented game, items and the stats they provide are essential for progression through content and regardless of skill you'll always have to meet a content gear check. Changing that would be extremely hard and would require a vast amount of underlying mechanics to be completely reworked and that just isn't possible, you can't turn WoW into a FFXI style game at this point simply because of how gear centric everything is.

It amazes me that Knaak wrote a fan favorite, "Legend of Huma" for the dragonlance series, but never wrote another good thing since.

...and even that had dragon fucking and dragon in human form fucking.

Just telling you the facts : WoW retconned Wc3 and "embraced" the new lore of Knaak.
TBC conclusion was directly tied with his mangas.
Metzen loved Knaak work as well, he's the main reason why this hack writer was able to do so much in WoW.

Nah expansions suck, the best part of WoW was levelling, adding a new continent where all the good shit is makes you feel bad at low level & makes levelling a fucking chore

Horizontal new content good, vertical bad, basically

And as for that, the reason Blizzard used that autistic "Sunwell's magic soul sealed into the form of a human girl that Kaelic, a blue dragon, fucked" as a plot device in the sunwell raid was essentially to kill it off.
Knaak wrote dumb shit, but retarded consumers bought that dumb shit. The "manga", as stupid as it is was still canon and because it had a plot point Knaak created solely to give hope for a "recreated sunwell" they HAD to basically acknowledge its existence otherwise some faggot would point out "Hey blizzard, why didn't you just bring use this girl?".

They obviously went the route to spite Knaak, by having the girl kill herself to power the player and have the sunwell be restored via an entirely different means.

WoW has never been a horizontal game man, I'm sorry but that's just not what it is. Trust me I love it, FF11 was just that, but you can't completely redesign WoW to work that way.

Read
What Knaak wrote was canon, so they had to do something about it. I'm not saying Knaak didn't fuck up WoW but he is not an actual writer for the game. His books are canon, but blizzard also routinely ignores things in them or retconns shit they know is too retarded.

>His books are canon, but blizzard also routinely ignores things in them or retconns shit they know is too retarded.
Not at all. His books defined vanilla/tbc, not the other way around. Period. He was able to kill almost all of the great characters of warcraft or shit on them while forcing his OC and selfinsert in the story.

As much as I love BC in hindsight flying really was shit. I think it should either be
>Prevent flying entirely and add flight paths to anywhere of note
>Only allow flying mounts to go 60% so 100% ground mounts are encouraged for farming and shit

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>His books defined vanilla/tbc
Um, no, they really didn't. His books actually didn't start gaining "importance" until later on. In TBC he had a manga, a manga that sold enough for blizzard to Acknowledge by having his gay OC incorporated (killed off) in the Sunwell raid.

In Vanilla, his influence was mainly the Dragonflights of which beyond the blacks had very little relevance. Malfurion, who was made into a fucking God capable of turning the entire force of nature into a weapon was cucked into eternal sleepmode in vanilla.

Blizzard has strung along a few OCs(mainly killing them off), but he and especially Golden didn't start really fucking shit up until blizzard hired them to write actual "context books" so they could save time forcing out patches, or expansion epilogues.

Oh yeah man like anything out of side the final fight's in most TBC raids were anything memorable, oh yeah and they were fucking broken at launch.

The only raid was full on memorable in TBC was Karazhan which at launch at shittier gear then Heroic Dungeons and Sunwell which half of it was forgettable.

Wrath had a shit first tier of raids but Naxx is atleast iconic, Ulduar was fucking amazing and still is the best raid in the game, totc is a niche enjoyment and an interesting experiment I preferred grinding it over Hyjal atleast. and ICC, for the most part, is memorable.

Do we even count Ruby sanctum as like a raid tier?

They were neat in BC and weren't as negative as the whiners make it out to be but the easy solution is to limit them only to outland zones. The real fuckup was Blizzard cracking and allowing flying in Azeroth.

>Um, no, they really didn't. His books actually didn't start gaining "importance" until later on
Stopped reading here.
web.archive.org/web/20071016142350/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/encyclopedia/index.xml
This is directly Knaak's work.

Rasputin streams wow now, cool.

youtube.com/watch?v=cmhXyDKtI_U

>Naxx was a rerun
>Trial of the whatever is the worst raid ever invented
>ICC was a huge letdown

Ulduar gets way more praise than it deserves and I think it's due to it being the first new full sized raid that the average player could complete thanks to easy modes. For serious raiders Ulduar was an absolute headache, nearly all the fights were gimmick fests or "lol just put tons of adds in bro" and it was made doubly annoying by having to do a zero fun easy mode clear before getting to the potentially challenging hard modes, the entire sense of accomplishment and satisfaction from full clearing a raid was gone because everyone is gifted it through easy modes.

The ONLY fun fights in Ulduar were Firefighter and Algalon.

The raids were great, I loved arenas but I do agree on one important thing, making azeroth irrelevant was a huge mistake, especially considering how small outland is, TBC basically removed 80% of the game.

Only druids/shamans/paladins like this expansion
>look i can tank now even better than warrior
>lol i can be dps
>im not forced to heal anymore

everyone hates belfs but their zone was so fucking comfy

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Well, you can't exactly go in and attach a landmass the size of outland to the existing continents seamlessly. Putting them in their own pocket continent was a fine move, frankly Wrath does this exact same thing and people don't seem to consider it a negative.

Kara was suppose to be the raid after Naxx anyway, i don't get why people would be upset with it as a new 10 man raid with BWL tier items, it would be a good catch up

They belong to the alliance not to the horde

Post your netherwing character.

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I have mixed opinions on blood elves because mostly faggots play them and I don't mean gay but just they're the kid who min-maxes and overpulls and posts dps and tries to kick the 50 year old priest because she's doing 500 dps but...yeah.

Ghostlands was a great zone too.

That's because people were used to it by that point.

An incredibly vague official encyclopedia?
Knaak didn't write fucking vanilla and BC you retard, If he did we would be seeing countless "Mysterious dark undead ghouls, no from the scourge, but from a.. darkness" or "You find a magical idol, in it, a crystal fairy" type DND Dungeon Master prompt shit.

Knaak's most notorious flaw is his resistance/incompatibility with WC's more direct, rule-of-cool style of lore in favor of cheap fantasy mystique. Great example is one of the books where his OC's Ronin and Krasus land on a insland and are attacked by Ghouls of which Krasus claims they're not releated to the scourge but something darker. Blizzard ignored this, because that "lead in" was uncalled for and retarded. Knaak wanted WoW to be more like LotR in substance, anything in WoW trying to match that kind of thing is Knaak.

Knaak is a drop of shit in a piss ocean, A lot of WoW's problems come from their generic Cdev hires and Metzens fluctuating vision of the WoW universe that is merely a reflection of his shit tastes in comics, Also Christine Golden but not until later.

TBC didn't have that many dailies, most of the "dailies" in that game came from farming resources that enemy dropped that you then turned in.
Good luck organizing that

Night elf part is knaak retard.

>All belf hate is just alliance being salty they didn't get best race
Success breeds jealousy

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>Arena ruined pvp!!!

t. sub 2k scrub

More like Horde players who didn't want barbie dolls in their monster faction

It didn't link to it properly.
Of course, Knaak also raped Night Elves. They were already raped by the WoW dev team anyway because the WC III concept wasn't "generic elf" enough.

You can navigate in the link I gave you. Tauren in night elves, Jarod, etc were already acknowledged by the official lore.

More like you projecting the "barbie dolls" because you wanted them for alliance
I see you guys crying every single day on the forums about getting "high elfs" which is just blood elfs

>tbc created streamers ???
>the first time someone streamed was in wrath
>people used X-fire
Reckful literally started streaming in s7/8,when nobody knew who he was.Fucking Zoomer.

A whole lot of bullshit.I love how you faggots any Class rotation took a brain in Classic.By the way FurryWarriors also can just press 1 buttom macro in Classic.
I love how you also praise >muh class diversity,when even in Wrath Classe were still very diverse and you actually could play all 3 skill trees.

Also just on last thing the people who complain about arena could never compete for gladiator.I love how all of you shitters cry about Arena,when back in TBC/Wrath you faggots couldn't even reach shoulder raiting or duelist,lmao.Classic PvP is hot garbage,the only good thing is World PvP and that still existed alot in TBC.

This is true

I liked the idea that Belves were monsters in as much as their ethics and methods of attaining power were monstrous, even if they were overtly a beautiful race. I suppose that's lost on most people though.

>People actually want to move Classic forward with new content/expansions without including the blood elves and their zones/styles

>People for years bitch that Outland is boring & they don't want to level through it again, demand a remake of Outland
>Blizzard answer this by introducing level scaling & allowing you to skip Outland
>People now want TBC servers to experience Outland again over new Classic content

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That was the original idea to them, but then blizzard realized that all the players who joined the horde for BElves actually wanted them to be closer to their old lawful good high elven selves.

The best direction for WoW right now is to abandon retail and spinoff a new timeline with new expansions to classic.

Yeah I suppose by the time BC wrapped up that part of their identity was pretty much lost, what with the revival of the Sunwell. Blizzard really are fucking hacks.

None of the races in Warcraft were good, that doesn't excuse Belves ruining the Horde's theme, it would be like having Elves fight with the Orcs in Lord of the Rings, it would be fucking dumb

i dunno how you guys play WoW. it's boring as shit. all you do is grind quests and then do PvP at the end.

such a waste of time.

>They were already raped by the WoW dev team anyway because the WC III concept wasn't "generic elf" enough.
Explain

they should release karazhan after naxx

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Night Elves in WoW are jus bimbo slut for human husbands.

LotR is a shit example because it begun the archetypal lawful good elf thing.

WC III night elves were brutal savages, like intentionally designed to be the bridge between Trolls and pretty high elf fucks. They had an interesting culture, entirely female armies guarding a male priest caste.

This wasn't befitting for WoW, blizzard knew players who gave fuck all about setting just wanted the lawful good trio (Human, Elf, drawf). Blizzard didn't have high elves in yet, so they figured night elves would fill the niche.
To make them fill that niche, their savage elements were tonned down and their role through much of WoW's history has been "Druid NPCs".

Most people considered their inclusion in the alliance to be as bad as the Forsaken in the horde, but later players failed to notice this.

They could have kept Night Elf Warriors as Female only for progressive points & kept the lore intact, but it was 2004 i suppose

>like intentionally designed to be the bridge between Trolls and pretty high elf fucks
Aaaa you mean the concept art that never made it into the final game? Might as well say that fan art is canon then

Male night elfs should've only been able to be Druids and Priests
Hunter, Rogue and Warrior for Female

No, I mean when even orcs were saying Night Elves were terrifying in WC III.

arthas. unironically, arthas sold that expac, nothing else mattered

Nobody is going to put extra effort into something that's pointless or won't pay off.
The same way they are afraid of ghosts, what of it?

>Nobody is going to put extra effort into something that's pointless or won't pay off.
>"Why care about lore and shit lol, I just want to play a male night elf called Legolass

>Dumb retaildrones get bored of levelling their 100th alt through Outland so it's "boring"

Fuck off cunt I can't wait to play through Outland again because I haven't seen it in 10 years, as I'm not a shiteating Blizzard cum slurper.

Arthas in WoW was nothing like Arthas in wc3 though.

>i can't wait to pay Blizzard 15 bucks a month for TBC instead of new content

Correct, I'd rather take a good game than whatever instanced gacha garbage post wotlk wow is.

One thing i like in Night Elves is that they didn't have a centralized gvt : Tyrande lead the sentinels, Maiev the watchers, Malf the male druids, Cenarius had his own army, etc.
vanilla immedialty retcons this and states that Tyrande is the "head of the state". And worst, later on she submits to the humans, making the Night Elves in WoW, just generic High Elves.

Chad:
>Work from 1.12 and add new content patches

Dumb nigger:
>Add TBC

Just my 2 cents.

>Do we want want to give this one specific race restrictions when it comes to picking character genders and class, do we want these restrictions to be to this one race only. Do we want to divide players like this?
an MMORPG and you want to restricting the RPG options?

>im going to shit in shattrath & wait for the queue to pop

TBC is retail WoW, just without dungeon/raid finder

Nothing stops you from making a death knight character and go to outland, or an all new character and go to outland.
>as I'm not a shiteating Blizzard cum slurper
Then what are you?

>Nobody mentions gear score
The addon alone turned a majority of the playerbase into elitist

>Whats that? You got experience in all the old school raids? You've done some of the hardest bosses?
>Ya well your GS is wank mate seeya

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i was rogue and spent 99% of tbc in arenas, i nearly quit during levelling from boredom

Blizzard need to drop the libertarian bullshit & ban that add on in Vanilla, attunements exist to weed out the good from the bad

If Classic is popular enough to warrant new content it'll eventually warrant a new expansion, if it is going to get a new expansion you might as well run through BC to prepare for it instead of having a 2 year content drought.

>if it is going to get a new expansion you might as well run through BC to prepare for it instead of having a 2 year content drought.
I read this 5 times and i don't get your point.

Then you got a new generation of WoW players that expect flying mounts, arenas, hybrids to be OP, token gear, dailies, blood elves on horde, etc

Not the best idea

You had me properly baited until you said Warcraft lore was a joke, the thing that made Warcraft popular was exclusively the lore and the sandbox multiplayer game modes

>content it'll eventually warrant a new expansion
You mean like Classic: The Burning Crusade? Why?

The notion of dailies always made me vomit. You wanna do the same quest every day? You want your life to be a repeat of the same experience, stuck in a eternal timeloop? That seems hellish.
If the quest is a repeatable turn-in, that's one thing because i can poopsock it. But i think dailies were invented to turn WoW into an addiction for that sweet $$.

TBC was the beginning of the cancer, yes.
>resilience in PvP
>nerfing all the items that could give you an advantage in pvp like tidal charm, elemental and shadow reflectors, rocket helmet, to name a few, not to function on targets over a specific level and bringing nothing to replace them except for several upscaled engineering items
>arenas and encouragement of instanced pvp
>dungeons that are shit linear designs with a shortcut to the start at the end of it

Holy fuck in my dreams maybe

>The same way they are afraid of ghosts
No, they were afraid of their terrifying frenzy in battle.

Yeah I can't, BC was my favourite expansion and waiting for Corecraft to release was why I got into Vanilla private servers. Classic is just a starter course for me.

>Corecraft
How to get cucked in 15 minutes.gif

>dude tbc sucked it had welfare epics
>anyway brb im gonna blow through a 20 minute dungeon in vanilla so I can get a blue that's as good as anything you can find in bwl

>I can't wait to play the expansion I enjoy the most instead of rolling the dice and thinking NuBlizzard can produce quality content when what they've got to show for their new content right now is fucking BfA

Yeah? No fucking shit dumbass.

Are you going to have the team pumping out new content while also trying to create the expansion? Doing both of those at once is going to be a little rough. Generally they make the expansion while the previous one is still working through it's raid updates but in this case you won't get that option due to them needing to wait and see if classic even remains popular enough to warrant it.

Nothing in your list is bad, all they have to do is show an ounce of restraint and straight up say that flying mounts will never appear outside of Outland zones. This is a skill they'll have to master anyway if they plan to add anything at all to Classic because it'll open the flodo gates to people spamming about raid finder and other garbage.

It's only DM that has slightly overpowered blue items. I think DM should have been a 10-man

No they stopped being afraid when they found out you can cut them.

Your two cents is fucking retarded and relies on the assumption that current Blizzard can make good content, which they obviously fucking can't seeing the state retail is in right now.

They were talking about wisps initially, the ferocity of female night elves was remarked upon separately and much later. Watch the cutscenes on youtube if you need to have your memory refreshed.

Can you imagine another update cycle? Without "expansions" for example. Not to mention, the expansion could be different, it wouldn't have to raise the level cap or introduce a new island for example.

That's good itemisation, Vanilla had level 40 blues that were good at 60, it made you want to farm all the content looking for a good drop

Meanwhile, BC started the trend of only the latest tier of gear being relevant & tokens being ez catch up gear

just hire Mark Kern again, he will save Classic.

>b-but ubrs is like super hard it doesn't count as welfare gear!
>b-but random dungeon blues that kept getting added in vanilla weren't better than t1, right? look, their name is blue instead of purple! obviously they must be worse!

They could always dredge up cut content like Dragon Isles and vanilla Kara. They probably don't have the files any more because they're notoriously massive retards who delete old assets because they think it's wasted space.

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>ubrs gear is welfare gear
lmao

>disliking ToC

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He was a producer. He wasn't actually a designer. Allen Adham, Kevin Jordan, Rob Pardo and tigole/furor designed vanilla.

I felt so cool when I got me shoulders and chest

>get raid-level gear in dungeons in vanilla
>haha that's a good thing it's just clever itemization :)
>get raid-level gear by grinding badges in heroics in tbc
>wtf welfare gear!!!!

No I remember clearly
>Orc speaks to Grommash about being scared because the forest is too quiet and how he feels they are being watched
>Grommash says something and gets cut off by night elves talking
>Grommash says something again and orc responds with that he isn't scared of flesh and blood but his axe can't cut ghosts
>Later on when they meet elves Grommash says they are rather savage

producer is important too, like Kern didn't want flying/too many portals because he knew from EQ that shit like that made the world feel more smaller, after he left, guess what happened?

I know you have some sort of deep hatred for expansions but that's just how MMOs work, updates are nice but eventually they just want to give you a LOT of new content and it comes in the form of an expansion. Raising the level cap is nothing more than a cosmetic change and nothing to be afraid of, even without it you'd still be on the vertical progression route and new gear would make old gear/content obsolete.

wow great argument

>filler: the raid
imagine an expansion pack where one major raid tier is recycled from vanilla and another was one small arena where you fight bosses made from reused assets from previous xpacs.

>raid-level gear by grinding badges in heroics
That was so dumb, i hated running the same dungeon over and over for an item that doesn't even drop in that dungeon

Oh yes everyone who doesn't agree with you is "full of hate", right.

No argument, just laughing at how dumb you are.

He left before vanilla was actually released.

>now we have raider.io to replace gs
What a time to be a alive

>Stand in literally the same spot for the entire raid
>Every fight is a gimmick
>Final boss is bugged and disconnects people
>So easy it can be done with 0 deaths

>i could totally prove you wrong i just don't feel like it
ok

Do you really think it's fun to make items be replaced so easily buy the next raid or dungeon? no one remembers cool items anymore, no more whirlwind axe or staff of jordan, because items are now just stat sticks & the next content has slightly higher stats, it's fucking boring

Who are you quoting?

I never played a Blood elf, but I did fap to the huge amount of porn they had.
Best of both worlds.

Every MMO that has ever existed has expanded content through expansions, I'm not sure why this is such a hard thing for you to accept. It's not smart or fun for them to drip feed small content patches for eternity.

>leveling shit
we're talking about the welfare gear in vanilla dungeons.

Two types of people. Objectively, as content, ToC is barebones and uninteresting. As a raider, I personally loved how it was just a boss rush for loot.

Also, I got #1 World DPS on the first fight because I was a troll rogue with 5% increased damage to beasts. Maybe I'm biased.

Just in awe at your stupidity, pic related it's you.

You can't imagine an expansion other than the released WoW expansions.

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Items have always been stat sticks, WoW has always been a vertical progression game with gearchecks at every level of content.

Wrong

>welfare gear in TBC
>epic gear that was better than Kara
>welfare gear in Vanilla
>rare drops from bosses in long ass dungeons, that other people will roll on, you will likely replace them in MC/BWL/ZG, some of them were good enough to keep a bit longer

>Raising the level cap is nothing more than a cosmetic change and nothing to be afraid of, even without it you'd still be on the vertical progression route and new gear would make old gear/content obsolete.
level cap increases have caused tons of problems for wow over the years which is why they end up having to do shit like crushing stats. they also go out of their way to nerf items from previous expansions like trinkets and class set bonuses because they're still good and blizz wants to force the addicts back on the gear treadmill. if you did manage to find some old items that gave you a playstyle you liked blizzard's answer is to go fuck yourself because it's not part of their current meta.

>spell bar consisted of 4 buttons
>icyveins guides would tell you to stop using certain abilities as they were DPS losses
>you didn't even have those abilities on your bar
>blizzard removes them
TURNING WOW INTO A 4BUTTON MOBA, FUCKING KILL YOURSELF ZOOMER

cope

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>fighting big scary dragons, an angry fire elemental trapped by creatures who combined couldn’t defeat sargeras and lulling an old god back to sleep for an inexact amount of time before it reanimated is same as fighting off the lieutenant of an extraplanar threat the size of a sun

Ogrila had only important stuff. Others were shit and you know it

That's why everyone was using their trusty WW Axe in Naxxramas.

>What do you MEAN i can't meet the DPS requirements to kill bosses in Molten Core wearing gear from Scarlet Monastery

Nah, lots of epics had different procs or bonuses that surpassed simple "more str or stam"

Seriously, name me any of your Weapons in BFA?

It was a fun post though, i never before heard the BfA shills argue that blue item drops in vanilla wow dungeons are the same as welfare gear in later xpacs.

Loving your strawman "arguments" where you debunk something that no one ever said.

That's not an issue with the level cap being raised, that is an issue with Blizzard not understanding what the fuck they were doing with scaling. There is nothing in the rules that says when going from level X to Y you need to increase average DPS by 2,000%

>gear you had to farm over and over for
vs
>gear you could get on your first run
Farming a dungeon in vanilla is easier than farming a heroic in tbc, none of the dungeons are even remotely difficult. Also, the welfare gear does not get replaced until BWL unless you're a retard who thinks that purple means the item is better.

>In vanilla you had taken out 1.
No. Only 0.00001% of player did that. The rest was busy killing plaguebats and skeletons.

if you want to farm heroics for tokens, why don't you play BFA?

Since you're retarded
> because items are now just stat sticks & the next content has slightly higher stats, it's fucking boring

Items in WoW have always been stat sticks, the next tier of content has always been better than the last, level 50 gear is better than level 40 gear which is in itself better than level 30 gear. Those "cool" items were cool because they were very strong during the leveling process, possibly rare/hard to get, and were possibly a trophy of sorts to show off to other players.

How the fuck is that any different than tbc? Raids were even harder.

>the next tier of content has always been better than the last
Wrong, i'm guessing you didn't play the game.

their entire formula is an issue. it invalidates older content and it's just shitty in general. they kind of half-solved this problem when they added timewalking dungeons but that still doesn't apply to any of the old zones.

How is that like BFA? Why is it ok when you can get raid gear from dungeons in vanilla but when tbc does it then it's welfare gear?

>How the fuck is that any different than tbc?
The only thing hard in early tbc was getting the attunment for your raidmembers, which is why they removed it eventually.

A much higher percentage of the overall population raided in TBC compared to vanilla. Which is why Kara is the most popular raid of all time.

No seriously, TBC is a proto TBC, you want dailies, arena & welfare gear? BFA got you covered man

Let Vanilla players enjoy rare drops in dungeons

*Proto BFA

I'm starting to think you never played TBC and are just hopping on the classic bandwagon. You seriously can't remember a single notable item in tbc? You actually think that dallies were some kind of integral part of the game? Sure sounds like you're playing classic because your favorite streamer is.

this

I was raiding with shadowpriests, enhancers, feral druids and it was a great experience to see all the synergies play out
everyone could carry their weight AND contribute with unique skills, buffs, effects etc.
even warlock starting with affliction as a proper spec and ending up deep into the stupid territory with pet sac destruction was fun throughout the expansion

>but muh one-button rotation warlock
fuck rotations
spamming one spell, waiting for haste procs, always edging on those 110% threat was fun
raiding is way more fun when you dont have to play guitar hero with your flashing buttons because some retard at blizzard came up with a fancy "rotation" to force you into

Overall people weren't progressing as far into raids in BC, it was rare for raiding guilds to be able to beat the final bosses of the eye/SSC and most guilds got stuck halfway through BT. Kara and the implementation of unique 10 man raids was a genius addition to the game and it's disappointing going into Wrath that they gave up on that idea and simply made them 10 man copies of the 25 man raid.

BC 10 mans were wonderful, a nice midpoint between casuals and raiding while being fun unique instances.

>I was raiding with shadowpriests, enhancers, feral druids and it was a great experience to see all the synergies play out
translation:
>YAY FINALLY MY MEME SNOWFLAKE SPEC IS VIABLE SO I CAN ACTUALLY EXPLORE ENDGAME CONTENT, SINCE ESSENTIALLY ALL SPECS DO THE SAME DPS AND UTLITY, SO RAIDING IS NOW EZ

I was subbed all throughout TBC and WoTLK and it was the core design philosophies that kept subs rising. No cross-realm, sharding, layer phase bullshit. No multi tiered raids (besides very end of wotlk). None of that scaled titanforged loot so everything mattered. Vendors instead of slot machine loot for non raiders to catch up. Actually dangerous enemies making people group.

I barely did any TBC dailies but the world was actually a world and I would meet strangers and go on adventures while having realm drama and competitions going on. Modern WoW + those old philosophies would be great and would be even less work for more gain.

While what you claim is true, that doesnt change the fact that a much higher percentage of overal population raided compared to vanilla.

Dailies had two purposes

>1. rep grind if you cared about it
>2. casuals and baddies that couldn't figure out how to make money via crafting or the auction house could now do dailies to afford their repair bills

You didn't have to do them by any means and they were certainly more interesting than killing 14,000,000 of a mob to increase rep.

>SINCE ESSENTIALLY ALL SPECS DO THE SAME DPS AND UTLITY
And right here is where you've exposed yourself as a zoomer who never played tbc.

the trinket from gruul was good but it got nerfed, which started the gear treadmil

Everyone
>TBC was the best expansion
Yea Forums
>TBC was shit!
Pottery

Then why WOTLK was so popular?

And what about the gruul shield that wasn't replaced until t6? The OP shadow weave set? There were plenty of items in tbc that didn't get replaced in the next tier.

Wrath was popular because it allowed everyone regardless of skill to access everything, it's why you'll find so many people who praise Ulduar as the greatest raid ever created.

Vanilla jerkoffs are neo-nazis, and thus wrong about literally everything. Makes sense!

Literally just bandwagoners who never played tbc or vanilla. Just look at this thread, people thinking that dallies were important, that world pvp never happened, that hybrids did as much damage as pure dps.

What a compelling counter argument its almost as if you realized that the dps difference between mage/fury warrior and a ret pala in vanilla is probably over 50% with similar gear and in tbc the dps difference between mage/bm hunter and a boomkin is less than 10% with comparable gear.

>Huh, its almost as if you have no argument and had to resort to a childish ad homine.
>Huh, its almost as if you never played TBC and only base your "knowledge" on some private server.

I was the top enh shaman dps on my server btw. I was also one of the handful of enh shamans who actually had 2200 arena rating, since enh shamans were dogshit in pvp. But yeah, please tell me more about your Netherwing/Nightbane experience.

TBC is 50/50, some swear by it, some hate it

I will say that the people who love it are a bit blinded by nostalgia & won't admit it's fault, but the people who hate it might not admit the some of the content was quite good, all in all it's controversial

Wrath is just meh though & only loved because it was their first expac

Found a picture of you

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Human nigger paladin

TBC was when most millenials actually got to max level. TBC was also when most casuals actually were able to farm gold with dailies. TBC was also when people to socially retarded to join PVP premades got their little arena safe space. TBC was also where you got welfare epics and easy raids.

GEE I WONDER WHY PEOPLE THINK TBC IS THE GREATEST.

FACT:
>If you got to lvl 60 in vanilla, you dont think TBC was "a better expansion".

Hand of justice is a bis melee damage trinket well into the lategame, gmomish death ray is available to engineers as early as level 30, both of which are extremely good late into the game