Let's get deep about Sekiro
>how did it succeed?
>how did it fail?
>what disappointed you?
>what did you love?
>what do you think the central themes were, if any?
For the sake of civility and focus, let's refrain from comparisons to any other FROM games, just for this thread. This is specifically about the gameplay, mechanics, aesthetics, and writing of Sekiro as an isolated game. If you think a different game did something better, focus on where and why Sekiro fell short, not the other game
I'm stuck at Owl therefore it's shite.
One thing I want to dig into is the Unseen Aid/Dragonrot mechanic
I'm confused by their implementation and don't see the value they bring to the game
Dragonrot really doesn't add any decision-making or strategy into the game. Dragonrot is caused by dying which you're already highly incentivized to avoid, so its existence doesn't shift focus towards any strategy other than "don't die," which any player is already following. Once you have it, the only solution is to spend a valuable resource doled out to you throughout the game, but that resource isn't used for anything other than Dragonrot removal, so the decision makes itself.
The only thing close to decision making is "do I remove Dragonrot now or wait until I've died even more" which is basically the same decision as whether to use heals or not, just on a larger timescale. Unlike healing, the Unseen Aid doesn't interact with any other mechanic in a way that complicates the equation, and is only framed as a positive (unseen aid means you get to keep your money + XP) and not a negative (not having unseen aid means you'll lose your money and XP when you die)
What exactly were they going for? It feels like there was some other mechanic that tied into all of this that was discarded at some point in development
It was okay, even fun during NG. I even finished NG+ but 3/4 through it I realized I was no longer enjoying it. The fights are tight, perhaps too much because you have to give them your full concentration to not fucking die. It is a fucking chore and unlike, lets say, souls or nioh I can't play it half drunk. And I enjoy drinking while I play games a lot, so instead I returned to those games.
>trains tirelessly for years
>defeated easily by some fucking shinobi rat
>grandfather lmaos at him and only comes back to face said shinobi in a sweet duel
genichiro had a hard life
>how did it succeed?
The posture system actually gets you to play aggressively.
>how did it fail?
Parry system trivialized spacing for the most part.
>what disappointed you?
The amount of reused bosses.
>what did you love?
Fighting Owl2, Demon, and Sword Saint.
>what do you think the central themes were, if any?
Story is about a dying military dynasty. Second half of 20th century Japan is centered around the fallout of imperial system. Genichiro is a modern conservative while Iishin is OG empire. It's a critique of nostalgia.
I've put it down at Owl. I like the challenge and the combat, but it gets kind of stale. I'll probably go back and finish it at some point.
>let's refrain from comparisons to any other FROM games
That's stupid and you know it, you won't stop the Soulsbabbies either way.
>>how did it succeed?
Better core combat designs that Souls, by far.
Verticality.
Almost pure action game with little to no RPG mechanics to ruin it.
>>how did it fail?
Miyazaki is too afraid to let go of Souls, keeping the traditional Souls interface and messages was a bad idea that will forever stain the game by association with souls and its community of whiners.
Too many recycled minibosses.
Bosses needed better cycles and more unparriable moves.
The usual paradigm of throwing everything at you in the first hour leads to a hard adaptation period and a disappointing plateau where little can surprise anymore since you're already used to most possibly bullshit, better progression balance would make the game a better experience.
The stealth is absolute trash.
Headless are the absolute worst enemies in any FROM game, and I've been playing since the old KF games.
Some prosthetics have unrealized potential due to the lack of appropriate enemies to use their gimmicks on
>>what disappointed you?
It's a game that evidently didn't know what it wanted to be, a stealth game, an action/metroidvania game or a Souls derivative.
The music is also garbage, like all the Souls games.
Dragonrot exists, nobody knows why.
>>what did you love?
The Ninja Scroll like atmosphere and fights, I had a feeling it would be like that since the first trailer with the Corrupted Monk, I wasn't disappointed at all.
Tsudaken as Genichiro was exceptional, marvelous voice acting and a perfect match for the character.
The Corrupted Monk, Juzou and Howl fights are exceptional.
>>what do you think the central themes were, if any?
Typical Miyazaki shlock, unoffensively boring and tired by now, might as well not be there so I don't really have any strong feelings about it, FROM's games hardly had interesting themes either way, even most AC games are really simple.
This. You're forced to fully concentrate on just that game AMD be on full alert, and sometimes I just want to relax or have some drinks.
Sekiro doesn't exist in a vacuum, so comparisons to the other games are necessary and unavoidable. As experimental as the game is, it still has very strong roots in its Souls-like predecessors. What you are left asking is "does the overall package feel worth it, all things considered" and for me that's just a "kind of".
As a stealth action game, the stealth is pretty mediocre. Not once did I encounter a scenario that I found to be clever, interesting, or rewarded outside of the box thinking. The AI is simply bad. You wait, you follow the grapple points, and you get behind them. In this respect, I feel that FROM branching out to a new genre was somewhat of a failure. As an action game? It's definitely enthralling at points. But it does not have the skill ceiling or complexity to push the systems in the way other action games do. Its literally Souls combat taken to its logical conclusion. You memorize the moves, you recite the dance, or you die. This has both pros and cons, though at the end of the day I find it almost feels hamstrung by its own strictness, as the first and foremost design choice was ensuring the player gets punished.
I think Sekiro is a good game, with a few amazing highlights (namely a handful of bosses) but not as compelling as a complete package. Its too streamlined, too bite-sized for its own good. Every time I think back to what I enjoyed about Sekiro (exploring crazy new locales, new weird enemies, careful combat encounters, secrets, creative bosses), it was done better in their other games. So for me personally, the game exists in that weird limbo of being too different while simultaneously being not different enough to avoid inevitable negative comparison.
Is there any easy mode or patch for Xbox yet?
I loved ninja scroll but it sounds tedious from what everyone describes.
The negative section of every review says the game becomes a chore, which I don't want, but I'd love s pure action game with some Nip flavor.
There's literally nothing experimental about Sekiro
I really loved the Buddhist themes, and they were woven into the game in some subtle ways as well as the explicit ones
Buddhism attributes suffering to the nature of the death-rebirth cycle, and claims that to end suffering one must drop their attachment to the transient and cease all karmic generation. Your character's suffering and the suffering of those you kill are all a result of the cycle of rebirth you go through in the game. The different endings each tie in nicely with the options one has within a buddhist model of reality/ethics
experimental for a company that's basically been making various versions of Demons Souls for the past 10 years? I'd say so.
Have you ever stopped to realize that not everything has to do with impact gameplay? Dragonrot is the main theme of the game and they just wanted it to affect the world somehow
>how did it succeed?
It isn´t Dark Souls 3
>how did it fail?
It isn´t Dark Souls 3
>what disappointed you?
It isn´t Dark Souls 3
>what did you love?
It isn´t Dark Souls 3
>add any decision-making or strategy into the game. Dragonrot is caused by dying which you're already highly incentivized to avoid, so its existence doesn't shift focus towards any strategy other than "don't die," which any player is already following. Once you have it, the only solution is to spend a valuable resource doled out to you throughout the game, but that resource isn't used for anything other than Dragonrot removal, so the decision makes itself.
>The only thing close to decision making is "do I remove Dragonrot now or wait until I've died even more" which is basically the same decision as whether to use heals or not, just on a larger timescale. Unlike healing, the Unseen Aid doesn't interact with any other mechanic in a way that complicates the equation, and is only framed as a positive (unseen aid means you get to keep your money + XP) and not a negative (not having unseen aid means you'll lose your money and XP when you die)
>What exactly were they going for? It feels like there was some other mechanic that tied into all of this that was discarded at some point in development
>>>
I agree, beyond a small impact on the story i really don't get the point of dragonrot
I wouldn't
Are you trying to seriously tell me with a straight face that sekiro isn't just a dex version of dark souls?
Come back when they make another rpg
It's fun, but I petered out halfway through a NG+ playthrough and I found myself not really thinking about the game once I was done with it. The attack/parry paradigm is so all encompassing that it makes it pointless to play around with all the tools and moves the game gives you. You're already limited to a couple tools and one move and most of them cost spirit emblems so there's no point in wasting them. Senpou Temple was the only time where I felt like the system kind of worked because there were a lot of easily dispatched enemies so it's easy to earn back the emblems. It's even worse during boss fights because you just end up saving up to use a tool to make the last phase a little safer which feels lame. There are so many moves and it's such a chore to actually experiment with them. Ultimately I would have preferred a much smaller arsenal of tools and that I have access to at all times.
The grind to unlock everything is unnecessary and really only serves to give you the illusion of choosing a "build" during your first play through. You should be able to easily max everything in your NG+.
Stealth is a chore for most of the game until you've gotten all the upgrades and even then it's only less tedious and never fun.
Story is fine and I enjoyed learning how the different characters backgrounds intertwine.
he's giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming that these half-assed mechanics at one point had more import and value
Don't thinks so.
>I loved ninja scroll but it sounds tedious from what everyone describes.
I wouldn't say the game is tedious, at all, it has a very dense level design with a constant level of challenge and content to tackle, there's not a single part that feels boring to play and no area that dips in the low level of quality of Souls games, even chinese Blight Town is interesting due to the vertical level design which this time around you CAN interact with, and it's probably the lowest point in the game.
The only part I guess it can be tedious would be grinding for abilities, which you don't need to since most of them are trash, so as long as you follow a guide for that you can avoid it completely, and NG++ also gives exponentially more EXP to make grinding less of a chore.
Most tragic from character to date.
>Loses to some schmuck even after unleashing his hidden power
>Said power is disgraceful
>Finds legendary evil weapon and trains the whole game for the rematch
>Effortlessly pushed aside again, this time being outdone by his already dead father.
>how did it succeed?
Core mechanics and the focus on deflecting to build up the critical meter, break posture was a nice change
>how did it fail?
>what disappointed you?
I'll just lump these two together. The lack of build and weapon variety and the linearity are a big step down for me. All of those are what gave the soulsborne series such legs and what I liked most about them.
>what did you love?
Certain fights were fucking amazing and some of the best FROM has ever done. It pained me to do alternate endings on NG+ because I just wanted to fight SS Ishin again and again.
Most tragic from character to date.
>Loses to some schmuck even after unleashing his hidden power
>Said power is disgraceful
>Finds legendary evil weapon and trains the whole game for the rematch
>Effortlessly pushed aside again, this time being outdone by his already dead father
Embarrassing ass interpretation
>how did it succeed?
Very fun combat.
>how did it fail?
Dragonrot was completely pointless. They could've made this a meaningful mechanic like insight in Bloodborne.
Higher difficult barrier to entry, but much lower ceiling
Arts and tools are underwhelming
>what disappointed you?
Lousy NPC questlines, very few and repetitive bosses, quite short
>what did you love?
The movement, the pace, the lore
I love this game, the combat and movement are amazing imo. I'm shocked by the fact that I've played it so many times despite the lack of "replayability". The combat is fun, so I keep playing.
I beat NG+ with bell and without charm and it's amazing out easy the game is when you go back to the standard gameplay
>how did it succeed
Easy to learn, hard to master, parrying based combat was fantastic. Never got old for me. Vertical elements to level design were a great new addition as well. Stealth was decent, but underimplemented/too easy. Best Final boss in any from soft games imo.
>How did it fail
It didn't.
>What dissappointed me
No armor/skin change was a letdown. Overall felt like there could have been more content, and the overall game felt kinda short. Mini boss reskins were annoying.
>What did you love
Combat, boss fights, verticality, and the game world
>Central themes
Loyalty, Friendship, Individualism, sacrifice etc.
After 1st playthrough, i was playing drunk with no issues desu(also like playing video games while I drink). I think it actually got more fun when I was drunk.
lmao genichiro is one of the biggest pussies in any video game
>how did it succeed?
Posture replacing stamina is a fantastic change, unlimited sprinting and attacks compliment the gameplay and shinobi theme well
Pellets are finally a well implemented healing item that's secondary to estus/gourd
Deathblows are satisfying and the posture/health relation is really interesting, mechanically
Verticality is great, using grapple points feels good and fluid
Enemy and character design is phenomenal and utilizes their points of inspiration well
Top-notch japanese VA, love that it's the default
Some of the greatest animations and character poses I've ever seen in a game (Guardian Ape moving like it's being puppeteered by the centipede after you cut off its head was a standout moment for me)
Selectively removing warp points makes Dark Souls-ish treks possible and I enjoyed quickly re-exploring areas I was familiar with
>how did it fail?
Shinobi tools are lethally underutilized beyond "if the enemy has a shield, use axe... if the enemy is a beast, use whistle..." shit
Didn't capitalize on the world and its history enough
Dragonrot is useless both mechanically and story-wise
Ambient lighting way too fucking high, wtf
Repeated use of Headless and Shichimen wore thin (although I understand the Headless from a story perspective)
Some plot points were spelled out way too clearly ("that demon of hatred... do you know who he once was?")
also stuck, i dont play the game often enough to maintain the skills i develop each play session lol
Okay, then why did it affect gameplay? Why did it decrease Unseen Aid? Why did it prevent some questlines from progressing until tended to? Also, why does the game's plot just completely forget about Dragonrot and never bring it up again after a certain point?
Started to feel all the same at O rin of water
Dropped after beating her and have little-no desire to go back to it. Change my mind
you're missing out on the isshin fight, a legitimately 10/10 boss battle
This, , do the Isshin fight, it's absolutely one of the best in the series.
How close is it from O rin? Feel like I'd just drop it within an hour if I have to face Normal Enemy But Bigger and a Different Color #72
u owe it to yourself to do the isshin fight. its god tier
>all these people who dropped it after getting stuck
Literally just sit down, clear your mind, turn off any videos you're watching or some shit, and work at it. There's nothing in this game you can't do if you just keep yourself from spacing out and going into auto-pilot
After Mibu Village you basically have two more areas to explore before the end, assuming you've already done Senpou
the boss fights literally get really really good after the o rin/ mibu village section
this, best boss fights are loaded towards the end.
Best plot of any souls game, worst lore of any souls game
The greatest moments lore-wise were right as the centipede and Takeru threads were being introduced and it felt like there was a ton of weird shit waiting to come to the surface. Then it turns out you've pretty much seen it all already and Takeru doesn't get any good closure
bump! cmon!
>Best plot of any souls game, worst lore of any souls game
Highly agreed. I wouldn't say it has the "worst" lore though just the least explored.
Name a game with better-named enemies
You can’t
“Juzou the Drunkard”
“Long-arm Centipede Giraffe/Qilin”
“Chained Ogre”
“O’rin of the Water”
Great shit
even vaatividya didnt bother with sekiro lore
guarantee we're going to see more tomoe/takeru stuff with dlc
>shite
Dumb anglo
It surpassed my expectations and is one of the best games ever made and my favourite From game. It’s so perfect both mechanically and story wise. I love playing it, it’s like meditating.
thanks for reading my post
>At the Genichiro fight in Ashina Castle
>Found the misty forest area in the depths but haven't encountered the boss
>At the beginning of Senpou Temple
>Done all of the Hirate Estate (Assuming Lady Butterfly is the end)
What's the best route here? I can't figure out which path is the "correct one" even though they're probably all fine.
The route I always do is Ashina Castle to Genichiro, then Senpou, then Sunken Valley. However I do a bit of Sunken Valley if I ever get stuck at Senpou. Senpou is good to do first just for the upgrades and combat arts and mortal blade.
I might not consider it perfect but I share your enthusiasm for it
I was really pissed that nothing happens with Kotaro once you send him to the halls of illusion. I really liked him and wanted to interact with him more
Speaking of Kotaro, are the "kids" he's speaking to in the Halls the kids that he had lost when you first meet him, or are they the dead Divine Children?
Final bump before I declare Yea Forums dead and never return
I think they are the dead divine children. The divine child talks to them during her quest line and refers to them as friends.
can someone explain to me that trap door in kuro's room that leads to the dilapidated temple?
I don't think they were so much branching out to a new genre as they were catering to the mongoliods of other genres to bring in more players (a.k.a revenue).
If we're going to be real for a moment your average high school dropout PVP FPS player isn't going to have either the intelligence or the patients to play through a game that doesn't have 360NoScope7EEt guns without having their hands held.
The average person is a moron... and if you're going to increase your player base, you're going to have to cater to the morons, which means dumbing down your games to the lowest common denominator.
I played it day one and it absolutely met expectations and is a fantastic game. The combat was fun, had depth, and was very satisfying. The adventure aspect of the game was great as well. Sekiro was a good main character and I still really like his design. Atmosphere and exploration were as good as usual. Fountainhead palace in particular was excellent. I was most pleasantly surprised by not only swimming, but the ability to actually dive underwater. This heavily adds to the adventure aspect and exploring underwater is just cool as fuck. If they do a DLC, I want more underwater areas. The only thing that disappointed me was the spirit talisman system. First of all, they should recharge at sculptor's idols. Second of all, there should be a way to gain them back in combat. I was thinking that a separate gauge below the health bar could build up every time you perform perfect deflects or deal damage. Once the gauge fills, it would reward you with a certain amount of talismans. The gauge would also slowly decrease over time to punish passive play and reward better players. It's not about the difficulty either, I simply think Form was little to strict on your talisman usage. If certain combat arts and tools needed to be weakened to compensate, then I feel like that would be a better balance. That being said, the ceremonial tanto did help this issue a lot once I got it. Spirit talismans weren't a major issue or anything but since the combat took a more action oriented direction, I feel like it would simply be more fun to not limit the player as much.