Explain to me why augmentation is such a huge, divisive issue in the game because no one in-universe will actually take the time to say it. Even Sarif who is the biggest proponent of it never says why it's such a big deal outside of vague platitudes.
WHY DOES EVERYONE CARE SO MUCH, IT'S LIKE BITCHING ABOUT WHEELCHAIRS
because the game's story is fucking stupid and inconsistent
>augs are supposed to be an analogy for minorities suffering discrimination by society and the government
>also every single aug on earth randomly started slaughtering people 20 years ago
muh transhumanism
>augs are supposed to be an analogy for minorities suffering discrimination by society and the government
Except most augs in HR are just normal people that had an accident and aren't "oppressed"
because it's clearly not like bitching about wheelchairs. the unrestrained use of technology to enhance the human body brings up a ton of ethical, cultural and social issues that our society just really isn't equipped to grapple with yet, if ever.
if you can't imagine why being able to pay to enhance your body beyond normal human capacity would have a profound effect on society, play something else that's simpler. maybe a puzzle game, or doom or something like that.
Cost, my dude.
Did you even pay attention to the first 5 hours of the game? Mankind is divided due to the rich being able to afford any augment they way AND the meds constantly needed to stave off the bodily rejection of the machinery.
The poor are usually given no choice for the augment (surgeries and manufacturer deals placing crap on people) and then they are forced to pay off the giant bill as well as the medication that's been given a false scarcity to increase price and demand. So either the poor pay up and live in even worse poverty or risk rejection and ruin their lives another way. There are characters, like Sariff, who make a huge profit off of it, but he is in general against raping the wallets of the poor, but is too distanced to really care.
The issue is even brought up in the original Deus Ex as a main point.
Augs make better workers which in turn strong-arms people to get them in order to remain competitive in the labor market, and this makes them reliant on a single drug manufactured whose parent is exclusively held by MJ12/Illuminati. I guess it also makes people with lots of money outright superior physically and mentally. The whole issue is contrived to bring up the issue of transhumanism of course, they just picked on one element from the original and made a big deal about it. Augs in Deus Ex were mostly just for weapons, so soldiers and criminals.
>augments can make you better than the everage joe
>said augments also require a drug to be taken
>drug is manufactured exclusively by a single company
>not taking the drug regularly while augmented causes pain and eventually your body rejects the augments
>augs are expensive, drugs are stupid expensive
Basically only the super rich can reasonably afford them.
Did you pay attention to any dialog through the game? Even if you don't agree with it plenty of people give their take on why it is an issue.
- Ideological: some people think augmentations flat out means loss of humanity, especially those who tamper with their brains, as if the "pure" humans will be overtaken by augmented beings.
- Capital: some people believs augs are flat out cheating their way into achieving success in society, people with resources will blatantly buy their position in the world, not that it already doesn't happen but with augs it will be even more blatant and predatory.
>Cost, my dude.
That doesn't work out great when every other gangbanger is augmented, clearly cost is not actually an issue.
>Augs make better workers which in turn strong-arms people to get them in order to remain competitive in the labor market
Ross Scott already looked into this, and 9 of the 10 jobs that of the labor market are most employed in, would have 0 benefits from being augmented. Augments don't do anything for you in a service economy.
Again, then why is every other gangbanger augmented? You know money isn't something they have a lot of, right?
>the unrestrained use of technology to enhance the human body brings up a ton of ethical, cultural and social issues that our society just really isn't equipped to grapple with yet, if ever.
Again, why does no one in the game address it in an intelligent way? Why does everyone just use vague platitudes or talk about it like the abortion allegory it's being used as when it's not the same thing? Why does no one in this game communicate like an actual human being?
>then why is every other gangbanger
Did you miss the part where they were big fucking gangs with connections to contraband supplies of augmentations?
>You know money isn't something they have a lot of, right?
Their augs were gold plated for fuck's sake, they were big gangs.
>gangbangers are poor
They make plenty of money selling mass amounts of drugs, weapons and people. You're retarded.
>being able to think faster and being physically stronger gives you no competitive advantage
Since this isn't reddit and I can't downvote you i'll just tell you to kill yourself
Because you’re basically making people super human at the cost of them being dependent on drugs produced by a private corporation
>being able to think faster and being physically stronger gives you no competitive advantage
A competetive advantage in being a sales clerk? Barely. Especially since most people just have a limb replaced.
>augmentation that lets you perfectly read personalities and even release pheromones to guide people towards thinking the way you want
yeah how could that possibly help you in sales
they never show how augs are taking over society, they just keep repeating it hoping you accept it and move on. augs generally wouldn't be better at anything besides manual labor that requires pure strength and nothing else and maybe salesmen. when you get to the area where all the aug workers are fucked up you can see that some of them have replaced their hands with power tools which is next-level retarded because a normal person would just use a tool belt that doesn't require removing your entire hand to switch tools.
The C.A.S.I.E aug enabled you to "read" the pheromones given off by people to know what kind of personality they have and the best way to convince them to what you're saying. A VERY useful trait when trying to upsell people on stuff.
If you haven't even played the game, why comment?
>Why does no one in this game communicate like an actual human being?
This one is a valid complaint and there is no real counterpoint because it's just bad writing. That or the writers wrote it originally in french and it just comes across as stilted in english, since the game is from montreal.
They make you completely dépendent on expensive drugs
Augs in Gayus Sex were class warfare made flesh.
Think of how much people bitch about millionaires and billionaires today - now, imagine if those same millionaires and billionaires were literally turning themselves into a superior species, using rare drugs to gatekeep augmentations, and using supersoldiers to commit acts of terror.
It's the ultimate Fox & Grapes/Eat the Rich scenario.
Listen to the fucking dialouge of NPC's and read something in the game from time to time.
You want only shooting? Go play Doom and fuck off.
>the unrestrained use of technology to enhance the human body brings up a ton of ethical, cultural and social issues that our society just really isn't equipped to grapple with yet, if ever.
"lmao who cares"
gee that was easy
Because it's like trannies cutting their own dicks off for funsies and private corporations applauding this behaviour. After a while you have to ask yourself where the fucking line is and when will this become dangerous.
so it's about the use of caffeine in the working world
>The C.A.S.I.E aug enabled you to "read" the pheromones given off by people to know what kind of personality they have and the best way to convince them to what you're saying. A VERY useful trait when trying to upsell people on stuff.
It only works if you get their personality type right, otherwise it has the opposite effect. Aside from the fact that this is a very rare augment in-universe that the majority of augs don't have and Adam only does because they augmented his brain, it doesn't even work that great. In VtM when you want to change someone's mind, you forcibly change their mind.
Working class people have tons of augs paid for by the companies they work for, you even see homeless people with augs. Even if you can't get official augs there's a huge black market.
I'll ignore your retardation for the sake of the argument:
When artificial augmentation of human capabilities becomes such a norm that not only literally anyone could have it, but ends up becoming a personal fashion statement akin to getting a tattoo or that one expensive jacket or eating cake with gold flakes on it, common logical sense is out the window. You live in an age when videogames have so radically reshaped the entertainment market in just 30 years, that global judiciary systems still have yet to keep up. So you end up with shit like Fallout76, BFVagina, Anthem, Aliens Colonial Marines, The Division 1+2, most AssCancereed games, with nobody ever answering for their crimes. What makes you think healthy people installing a robo-arm that transforms into a homing bazooka and can also hack electronic systems "NOW IN CHROMIUM PLATINGtm" would not be divisive?
>Listen to the fucking dialouge of NPC's and read something in the game from time to time.
How many times do I have to say it, no one in the game puts forth an actual convincing argument for me, everyone makes surface-level arguments and vague platitudes. And more importantly, we are told there's a problem much more than we're shown it.
What ethnicity was Malik.
I take you didn't notice those poor people had terrible quality augs and some of them were like crackheads in need of their drug?
I believe arabic.
I don't know how this board feels about Yahtzee but he had a good take on your issue.
>Faridah
Persian I guess
look how many people still freak out over abortion and gays, muh body is a temple religious fucks would hate this level of augs
The game director said she's Arabic, and her listed birthplace is one of like 3 places in the US that has a high concentration of Arabs.
egyptian I'm pretty sure
>religious fucks
You don't need to believe in anything to get mad at a potential new species literally phasing you out of existence.
the game presented it super poorly because most of the story was shit. But if I had to say it would be because you may end up forced into augs by your job, but then you get in debt, then you also had to buy drugs to minimize the rejection of your body to the implants.
Then theres also that the richer people get access to the best shit, making them not only richer but physically better than you. ubermesching that shit.
Not to mention the game shows how fucking easy it is to control people or make them go crazy with those intracranial augs, the people without augs would be at the mercy of those with augs, and those with augs are at the mercy of those controlling the augs.
its all about losing control of your body. which in a cyberpunk society should be the only free thing left in you
Yeah, but it also helps you tell what their personality is just from a few sentences of dialogue, you would have to be pretty stupid to not get it right. And it's common enough that Malik knows what it is, she doesn't know what they put in Jenson, but she can tell when you try to use it on her. Although she probably could have made an educated guess seeing as she works for an aug company.
And I'm sure that companies would pay for their employees to be augmented as it would pay itself of in the long run (Provided they sign "Indentured servitude" contacts to pay it off of course) You just don't see the less open augs because they don't effect the game. Malik has augs that help her fly for instance.
Plus, ALL augs have their brains augmented, otherwise they wouldn't be able to control their new shit.
>muh religion
It's always the same deflection with your kind, I don't believe in sky faries but trannies still disgust me.
The whole thing falls apart when you have people in the game saying that those who have a limb blown off in war shouldn't get a fake arm because it's unnatural. The abortion allegory it was using up until that point goes entirely out the window then because the whole point of abortion is the one aborted has no choice. A vet still has the choice to NOT get augmented.
>If you work for Amazon, they'll let you cut off your natural arms and replace them with cool augments for free!
>In fact, you even get paid 30% more for it, and it's virtually required to be eligible for promotions.
>They're an "equal opportunity" employer, by law, so they use hard metrics to determine who gets raises. Totally fair metrics, like "number of tons an employee can lift unassisted".
>If you ever stop working for Amazon, you'll be unable to afford the medication for the arms, and you'll start having seizures and die, essentially forcing into corporate servitude.
>If you ever stop working for Amazon, you'll be unable to afford the medication for the arms, and you'll start having seizures and die, essentially forcing into corporate servitude.
I don't see the problem.
It honestly doesn't make any sense and that's why the prequels have bad narratives, even if they do have cool aesthetics.
>they'll let you cut off your natural arms and replace them with cool augments for free!
Yeah see I'm pretty sure normal human beings regardless of the pay raise don't want their arms chopped off when they still work. This isn't nano-augmentation like in DX which had 0 downsides and almost no physical signs of being augmented aside from glowing pupils.
>I don't see the problem.
if you don't see a problem with systemic worker exploitation and dehumanization, you're probably stupid
because a human that can crush your skull with a finger flick is scary.
if we are talking MD, that what happened when Panchea project turned all augmented into murder machines for a few hours
why are you not paying attention?
Where did all the mech augs go in the time between games? By the time Deus Ex rolls around the only people with augmentation either work for UNATCO or are bodyguards, and they're being made obsolete because of how many advantages nano augs have. And remember, by the time of DX there is no drug problem with mech augs, you just need a tuneup once in a while (or very often if you're stupid like Gunther). Yet unless you're in a field that needs it, no one has them. Even the bartender has the excuse of being former UNATCO.
>because a human that can crush your skull with a finger flick is scary.
Only military-grade augs are that strong, the vast majority of them are not. Even the cops don't have access to that level of augmentation.
they got herded into the ghettos and died
most of those augs are for construction and are that strong. people aug themselves not because accident, or bad health they do it to perform better and not get fired.
>Yeah see I'm pretty sure normal human beings regardless of the pay raise don't want their arms chopped off when they still work.
4 million people in the US alone go under the knife every year, just to make themselves look like eye-watering Barbie knock-offs. Untold numbers of athletes fuck with their body chemistry just to exercise faster.
I'm pretty sure if people could opt-in to being able to crush cinderblocks by clenching their fist, they would do so.
Could it be the purity/smearing the line of humanity, you know the thing that the terrorist group was spouting like, all the time? Or how about the issue of augment body rejection and neuropozyne addiction that was practically smeared on your face the whole playthrough?
If your skill to pay attention is that low, you should play something else than story-driven games.
>4 million people in the US alone
Of a country with 330 million people. It's still only slightly more than 1%
>Only military grade are that strong
I thought military grade shit was transforming gun hands and cloaking. Pretty damn sure enhanced strength/speed is basic shit.
do you remember how disgusted everyone by mechanical augs? HR incident=>MD segregation=>DX1
DX takes place after a global economic crash and unemployment levels that would make the great depression blush. There's a reason there's homeless everyone, no one has no money.
Punching through walls is something even Adam has to unlock and can't do at the start.
1% *per year*.
>be a sam
>work in construction/factory
>here comes augmented joe
>sam can't keep up with joe at all
>sam gets fired or sam gets himself an aug
people are get fired in US for less.
>do you remember how disgusted everyone by mechanical augs?
Not in Deus Ex they aren't. No one looks at Gunther and Navarre and thinks they're freaks, they see them as relics of a bygone age that are being left behind. Even the MJ12 commandos that are just wearing an enhancement suit are a match for them now.
>has to unlock
on software side, not to mention it's there just for gameplay purposes. the aug is already there
Even then you'd be better off just buying an exoskeleton and using it 24/7 in 8 hour shifts.
>wheelchairs
I mean, if wheelchairs could hack into other people's brains, or if wheelchairs gave the guy superhuman strength that would make him capable of lifting cars, or if wheelchairs that would let people see through walls/clothes etc
I guess?
You're obviously very young, and I remember thinking like that back then as well, but you'll understand when growing up
Adam couldn't use them because of the unhealed damage to his brain as well as inexperience. The man was augmented to shit after being rekt to shit.
>Again, why does no one in the game address it in an intelligent way?
>Why does no one in this game communicate like an actual human being?
you should be able to figure what is wrong with putting these two statements together
Adam is also explicitly said in story to be one of the most overly augmented characters ever and 99% of augs are nothing like him.
I can't remember where that dialogue line is, but there are some comments not only about how outclassed they are.
People who don't have any augs are forced to compete with people who do have augs. They are fundamentally the college degrees of the Deus Ex universe. You can't really get work without augs and thus need to spend fuckloads of money on neuropozine and the augs themselves, just like you can't really get work now without a degree and piles of debt.
>They are fundamentally the college degrees of the Deus Ex universe.
So it's all a meme and there's plenty of work that doesn't require it?
>You can't really get work without augs
Explain how this would logically work.
>The man was augmented to shit after being rekt to shit.
The latter not being the reason for the former
are you new to cyberpunk?
corporations make the rules. period.
Such fucking bullshit, while it's obvious it would be the contrary happening IRL. You'd have augs everywhere, and a little anti-aug minority would be demonized as "alt right reactionnary nazis".
seecompetition.
Isn't that the setting of Ghost in the Shell?
people with augs are superior to people without them. pretty fucking simple
>Not in Deus Ex they aren't.
One of the e-mails in the game literally says that mechanically augmented agents are jealous of nano augmented agents because their mech augs make them completely ostracized by society while nano aug agents don't have that problem
So take someone like Malik, a pilot. Even SHE has neuro-augs that influence her ability to presumably pilot better. Now imagine that but for any job with a stress element.
Need to do labor? Get aug legs/arms and just straight up work harder/require less breaks etc.
Need to work internationally? Fuck learning languages just get an aug that auto-translates everything you hear and say.
Need to work as a cop or military etc? get stress related nuero augs or that thing that lets you negotiate.
Need to run a business? Fuck corporate email accounts just straight up send information through a data aug to everyone immediately so all people who work within the business know what they need to know.
There simply aren't enough augmented people in the world for companies to set that standard. Plus even in DE, the vast majority of workers aren't augmented.
Why are you so obsessed with gangbangs? Is your mother getting gangbanged this often?
Basically if two people were willing to work for you, but one of them is filled with augs that make him an objectively better or less expensive employee there is no reason to hire the guy without augs unless he's your friend or something.
Because of what they look like, not because of what they can do. Because unlike nano-augs, mech augs can't hide the circuitry and metal plating all over their bodies.
pre economic collapse there is. HR period is golden age.
If one augmented dude can do the work of 5 unaugmented dudes, they don't all need to be augged to cause a problem.
NSF soldiers talk about mechs in a disparaging manner. If I remember correctly there's a line about having some mechs join the NSF and it's dismissed with "If we join the cult of machines we've already lost." or something like that.
>Because of what they look like, not because of what they can do.
how does that have any bearing on the discussion
Are you retarded? Did you play the game?
Because the fear of augmentation in HR is over capabilities, not appearance.
>people who purposefully mutilate themselves are the victims
>people who got augs beyond their control like adam are lumped in with the above group
>augs are used as a hamfisted abortion-race-sexual orientation-body positive metaphor
should have just stuck with conspiracy theories instead of this fucking social bullshit which makes no sense looking back to the first deus ex
you go to liberty park and no one tries to lynch navara or gunter or even call them clanks fucking liberal feminist writers need to hang
DX somewhat fixes that problem since California is wiped out so you know, population loss and thus more work to go around.
The NSF are also neoreactionary extremists and don't represent the population as a whole. Remember, these are the guys who wouldn't stop fighting AFTER they lost the second civil war.
it is the same thing. you'd still be disgusted by a leper today even though you know it can't harm you.
Because the writers say so. Same reason Dumbledore is now gay.
It's really not, because I don't think a leper is going to take my job
there are several people in HR that dislike augs based on appearance, the prostitutes in detroit being the first example, but more importantly its obviously an evolution of the hatred against augs
The writing in IW was better
He was augmented a shit ton after being almost killed in the sarif attack. No idea what you're getting at.
If you do a sidequest in the game you find out all they really had to replace was an arm and some of the damage to his torso. Everything else was Sarif saying "well shit, he's already under the knife, let's go nuts". I believe it's Pritchard that helps you find out the truth.
>viewing the game through the lens of 2019 (zeitgeist of social sensitivity and altpolitics)
>not viewing the game through the lens of 2011, the year it actually came out (zeitgeist of class warfare and income inequality)
you're too stupid to post here. the game is not a commentary on sexuality, trans or otherwise.
two separate periods of time. can't you follow timeline at all?
1. HR period - a lot of augs working on difficult jobs, there is hate by people who's job they took, also fear of them being a walking weapon
panchea happens, they all turn into a walking weapon, millions dead.
2. MD segregation, fear, hate, what was extremist towards augs in HR now is the norm because everyone is scared.
3. economic collapse, most mech augs die without neuropozine, or during wars
4. DX1 - hate is still there even though mehcs are rare now
it all happens in a very short period of time for social hatred to fade.
>So take someone like Malik, a pilot. Even SHE has neuro-augs that influence her ability to presumably pilot better. Now imagine that but for any job with a stress element.
Like 1/30,000 people who work is a pilot. Utterly irrelevant.
>Need to do labor? Get aug legs/arms and just straight up work harder/require less breaks etc.
Pointless. You're still a human, robots can do assembly line stuff better. If you need to move around, use a simple exoskeleton. Far simpler technology, doesn't require drugs forever, and the employee doesn't spend 16 hours a day using your exoskeleton to jerk off at home.
>Need to work internationally? Fuck learning languages just get an aug that auto-translates everything you hear and say.
Zero evidence that anything can augment speech like that. If you want a translator wear an ear piece. Same technology, far cheaper.
>Need to work as a cop or military etc? get stress related nuero augs or that thing that lets you negotiate.
Obviously super soldiers are nice, that's not going to change the world economy and job market.
>Need to run a business? Fuck corporate email accounts just straight up send information through a data aug to everyone immediately so all people who work within the business know what they need to know.
Oh like Sarif Industries? We've seen how that works, give Jensen a phone and nothing changes.
The things they were using as an allegory in the game are issues that have been around since the 80s.
Yes, he was also shot through the head with a .357 magnum.
>have been around since the 80s.
1780, sure.
based
Or maybe user, because the two games were written by different people 11 years apart, there's inconsistency in the setting? There's no hate in IW, which was also written by Sheldon Pacotti like the original.
That's the plate with the barcode on your forehead. It didn't require gouging out his eyes.
>There's no hate in IW, which was also written by Sheldon Pacotti like the original.
does IW even have mechanical augs
Here is a good overview of the game and its story and flaws.
They're mostly used for dogs now.
Abortion wasn't really a hot-button issue in the 18th century.
You got me there. Point is, he can't handle all his augments at the same time so he can't use them all at the same time. Also its his fault for not reading the fine print of his contract
>does IW even have mechanical augs
The Omar. They are openly scorned in IW.
learn to think for yourself.
right, but the actual conflicts in the game are between poor people, a small augmented middle class, and the unfathomably wealthy corporate overlords.
Every theme is present in the very first mission of the game, where you serve the 1%, rescuing the 10% employees, from the 90% army-veteran terrorists. The core narrative is about class conflict, and the social themes are just icing on the cake.
The writers were hacks using augments as a analogy for minorities, the game was supposed to be about conspiracy theories and government secrets.
>That's the plate with the barcode on your forehead. It didn't require gouging out his eyes.
getting shot in the head pulverizes most of the flesh in your skull, eyes included
>right, but the actual conflicts in the game are between poor people, a small augmented middle class, and the unfathomably wealthy corporate overlords.
If you take out cyborgs, the plot literally doesn't work. It can't exist without them.
what inconsistency? it all lines up perfectly. you simply lack information about the time period in between MD and DX1. go check wiki timeline.
IW is too far from HR events, it's like a different century for DX setting.
>getting shot in the head pulverizes most of the flesh in your skull, eyes included
Yeah but the file said his eyes were fine. 90% of your augments are becuase Sarif is so big into augmentation as the future that he couldn't imagine you would've turned it down if you were concious at the time.
Omar are nanotech.
it's a stupid game by stupid people
augments are a function of wealth, and represent the privilege and control that wealth lets people have over others. That's why neuropozene was so expensive; it was necessary for augments to function as a source of social control in the story.
>allowing companies to have permanent backdoor access to your body through augs
Think about all the shit google does with manipulating search results and public consciousness and now think about giving them direct access to your body and brain. That's basically what happens at the end of HR with Hugh Darrow and although it's exaggerated in the game it is a real concern.
>what inconsistency?
Well for one HR is way too futuristic to be the prequel to DX. The whole point of Deus Ex is they never make it clear when it takes place (it was only cemented as 2052 by IW saying so), it could've been 2010 for all we knew. That's by design, because the things it's talking about are problems in the future that will exist as a consequence of problems we have RIGHT NOW. Not transplanting the issues of today into the future like HR does.
Basically think of why "privacy" is such a huge issue in today's world even though it's a totally hypocritical concept that has no historical basis in law or philosophy before modern times.
not in newspapers, sure, but abortion been around for a long while, childbirth death rates were bigger issue than abortion
now all information is public, the only difference
The distinction is academic. They are obviously augmented humans and they are roundly despised for it. The world's most popular religion in IW actively promotes remaining a "pure" human. This idea the HR and MD people just pulled anti-aug shit out of their ass is complete crap. But most people didn't play IW, did they?
I'm pretty sure DX stated it took place in the 2050s, let me check.
I work in Medical Device industry and there is zero chance FDA would ever sign off on weaponized Medical Devices
The thing with the Omar is that they're the only major group in the serious to embrace post-humanity. And you're right most people haven't played IW.
Only reason I haven't is because the game has kept crashing for me since fucking 2011.
The Omar aren't nanotech, they're people that do literally anything to increase their survival chance. Take better working body parts from people, augmentation, even wearing suits that allow them to survive in radiation.
All work it for those sweet discounts.
>They are obviously augmented humans and they are roundly despised for it.
That's not why the Omar are despised, it's because they're organ harvesters and almost all of them deal with the black market and criminal underworld.
because the writer/writers weren't very good at their jobs
people hate omar because they augmented themselves to the point of barely being human. they're also part of a hive mind techno-cult that has no moral issues with doing anything possible to progress their evolution including stealing and murder. they also have no problem betraying humans they work with if it means progress.
Did you patch it? That stops the crashes.
>they're the only major group in the serious to embrace post-humanity.
What about JC's ending?
The amount of DX threads on Yea Forums recently gives me hope that we'll see a new DX game at e3. It can't be a coincidence, right?
>make robot arm with interchangeable parts
>have third-parties make separate weaponized parts
did you even play DX1? it's like you are quoting someone
DX1 has extremely high tech places same as HR Detroit looks normal on the street, and hengsha ridiculous
not to mention nano augs are beyond advanced
you make a mistake about technical limitation looks and not what the things are in the setting.
JC's society is still human, just a more connected humanity. Everyone remains an individual, unlike the hive mind the Omar are.
Why does he have black hair? I don't care about any other problems with MD, WHY DOES BOB PAGE HAVE BLACK HAIR? He had red hair in HR and Deus Ex.
Well it's been 4 years since MD was announced, and that was about 5 years after HR was. I wouldn't be worried if we don't see anything in the next couple years.
>Well for one HR is way too futuristic to be the prequel to DX.
I've never understood this argument
dx1 is set after america's already had a massive period of decline due to natural disasters, war and other shit
also most of dxhr doesn't look that futuristic anyway, the parts that do, look like that for a reason
then at this point people like to mention
>muh hengsha
>muh things 10 years away are far too advanced
deus ex is a fictional universe that is similar to our own
>DX1 has extremely high tech places same as HR Detroit looks normal on the street
Not really. Hell's Kitchen still looks like Hell's Kitchen, Paris like Paris (the part you get to see anyway), Hong Kong looks like Hong Kong. Hell even UNATCO HQ, the most advanced place in the US basically, looks no different from any other corporate building on the inside. Nobody took Ghost in the Shell's aesthetic and vomited it on an American city like HR does with Detroit.
>and hengsha ridiculous
Nothing in DX is as ridiculous as Hengsha. IW has Upper Seattle but that's also in the 2070s and is nowhere near as huge as Hengsha is. Hengsha is literally impossible.
>JC's society is still human, just a more connected humanity.
>Let us understand and be transformed! Yes, Transform each other and transform yourselves! The only frontier that has ever existed is the self.
>"It really is of importance, what men do, but also what manner of men are that do it. Among the works of man... the first importance surely is the man himself." - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
Every ending in IW has a quote to counter it. I don't think this quote is on JC's ending for nothing.
>I've never understood this argument
>dx1 is set after america's already had a massive period of decline due to natural disasters, war and other shit
Because IW already showed that societal decline isn't stopping shit because there's simply too much infrastructure already in place. It's a major part of Tracer Tong's storyline, that blowing up the internet accomplished nothing and they got it all back online in no time flat.
so you're saying that dx1 is the one that doesn't make sense then since everything's a mess and there's homeless people everywhere and there's not much technology on show
dxhr and dxiw are clearly within the same canon
Augs fucking suck. Imagine if physical and mental capacity were tied to an expensive, purchasable good, rather than effort or talent. There would never be a way to compete your way out of your economic bracket.
I'm saying it's like the star wars prequels where everything in the time before looks more advanced than the stuff taking place later, coincidentally because of advancements in special effects technology and creators that want to show off fancy screenshots.
so it's a complete non-issue then?
gotcha
Only if you care about canon, which honestly I don't consider HR and MD to be canon anyway because they weren't made by the same people.
>inb4 but you mentioned the SW prequels and they were also made by George Lucas
Yes but he's also a hack
user we bitch every day about trannies
eidos worked on TR and avengers game. there is also the Outriders game by who knows who
CP77 is the only hope, it sells 20m SQ resurrects DX.
Yeah but MD tanked. Which is a shame because while I haven't played it, I heard it's not a bad game. It's just that if you don't go crazy doing sidequests then it's way too short.
Caffeine doesn't make your limbs detach when you don't have any.
Sure feels that way.
Then you should stop drinking because most people don't feel that way.
probably but I don't want a Deus Ex game made with Cyberpunk 2077 in mind. It's like the exact opposite of what I want.
It's basically the health care conundrum of the turn of the last decade coupled with some 2nd amendment sentiment. The wealthy get the best augs and can have their staff augmented and provided with neuropozene as part of their employment, and the poor get poorer because they need neuropozene, which Bob Page has a monopoly on. There's a lot that can be done with that.
I haven't played the game. Do you really see people with augs that are legitimately dirt poor, like a beggar with cyber limbs? Even 80 IQ low-life thugs can be economically enslaved by crime syndicates in exchange for the wonder drug, but do you see homeless people who clearly have zero money but also have working augs?
The gameplay it self is fine, it's a huge step up from HR, but the main story is short. And Prague, while I can appreciate the detail, overstays its welcome. The game needed at least one other hub, preferably two.
No
Cause you are stupid, OP.
>that lady in the cafeteria talking about "her body" and "her choice" before you debate tagart
I see
it's a bit more complicated than that.
The augs aren't the part that bankrupt you. It's the neuropozyne. It's like your medical insurance covering your emergency surgery but not the drugs you need afterwards.
Letitia never would've been written into the game if it was made now. And thank god for that.
The OP in this thread is one of the most retarded poster on all of Yea Forums right now. He actually needs it spelled out why augmentations create massive social divide and cause all sorts of ethical issues.
Then the people of Yea Forums, kind as they are, spell it out for him. However, being the retard that OP is, he still doesn't get it. If only he had a brain augment. Oh wait, that's exactly the point, but OP will not get this either.
>people in Detroit talk like that
>hell people I work with in fucking Texas talk like that
>people still call it racist
And people listen to them why?
Apparently the way she talks was the idea of the voice actress.
youtube.com
They think it's racist because even if plenty of blacks actually do talk like that, it reminds them too much of minstrel shows that whites created and thus makes them cringe.
>He actually needs it spelled out why augmentations create massive social divide and cause all sorts of ethical issues.
No my issue is the game is very poor at presenting why and it just expects you to accept it. And it's hard for me to accept it when the characters don't act like real people.
The game doesn't need to present it because it's a no-brainer. Do you also expect the game to present why people need to eat?
>The game doesn't need to present it
It does when the narrative revolves entirely around it and the plot literally can't work without it being there. Especially coming from a series where characters before would regularly debate the philosophies behind the game's themes. That's another issue I have with the game, it loses the philosophy to replace with hot button issues.
>Do you also expect the game to present why people need to eat?
No but I do question what they eat when there's nothing shown in the environment, but that's a different story.
If there I think it would be a teaser at most. I doubt development is very far long if it's started at all. It may be possible that they revived MD's sequel and polished it up enough for a presentation though.
MD was meant to have a sequel, but where do you go with it? The game basically ends with Adam going "we have to stop Page and Manderley" but we know he doesn't, we know they win because they're in DX. It's kind of the problem with prequels. Unless they just say fuck it to the canon and don't connect it to the old games.
I would assume a sequel would be more about Jensen being a sleeper agent and uncovering Janus. I think they should just set a game in the US during the 2030s where there's political collapse and the Illuminati are falling apart. Of course in the end Page would come out on top.
MD sequel would cover Page's Illuminati coup and the formation of UNATCO, probably. Janus and friends would be written in to be killed off or rolled into one of the factions from DX1 for continuity.
Jensen will pursue Page to the VersaLife facility in San Francisco and die trying to save Megan during the massive earthquake that takes out the west coast. They set most of this up in MD.
Isn't Jensen's DNA the origin for nao-augmentaiton though? Wouldn't it have to die with him dying and his body harvested?
end with him dying, I meant
They never should have connected it to the first game in the first place. Just because you are in the same universe doesn't mean you have to have the same characters and plot. That sort of fan pandering crap is cancer.
I don't thing anything suggests that he necessaril is, Paul's genetic profile is the basis of nanoaugmentation as far as I know
jensen already died
It's a forced issue made by those hacks from Montreal.
This just sounds like real life.
That's such a dumb plot twist.
>Paul's genetic profile is the basis of nanoaugmentation
That wouldn't make sense, then how could Page have been augmented before Paul?
>decide to go stealth in DX1
>it gets mind numbing boring after a while
>end up just shooting everyone
were you guys also like this?
i wish deus ex had more hardcore transhumanists
the omar are pretty much it aren't they?
the game is way more fun if you just use the GEP gun for everything
Okay, but that less than 1% is still 4 million people. I don't think you have an understanding of volume. Like if I asked you to walk just 1% of the circumference of the earth, that's still 4000 km.
The closest you get in in the Eidos series is Jaron Namir, who's at that point a head on a robot body. And some emails lying around about a Church of the Singularity happening.
I am like this for every stealth game, stealth is so goddamn boring
sneaking up on people with the DTS never gets old.
The Omar have kinda ditched the human part
>software side
depends on how they are released man, look at tesla cars
they are literally software blocked to prevent features from being used
also if you get a cheap augmented arm, there is a good chance that even fully unlocked it cant do more then lift ~100lbs
is it ever explained how the augmented parts are even powered? because trhat would have huge effect on the usability of the augment
That scene from Robocop is just so fucked up.
And immigrants don't magically take all the jobs available. That doesn't make people not bitch at immigrants.
So I was playing an X-Men game all along.
it's hilarious
Are you a brainlet?
Imagine all of the "rich privilege" conversations we have now, except that now the rich can literally buy themselves greater strength, lifespan, and intelligence beyond normal human limits, completely eradicating meritocracy as an argument.
Imagine all of the "immigrants taking our jobs" debates, except now we're talking about augmented people who literally are taking your jobs because they're much more productive than you are and you cannot compete without voluntarily cyborging yourself up.
Imagine all of the "medical debt slavery" debates we're having, except companies can literally repossess your limbs and if you don't pay for neuropozine, you actually fucking die, and those companies have a monopoly and can price it however they want ensuring you're bound to them for the rest of your life.
Imagine "worker exploitation" debates, where companies (that already have unchecked power in this setting) can force you to be augmented for labor, and if you don't you'll be replaced, locking you into the medical debt cases above.
Imagine "privacy" debates, where companies are literally inside your body and mind with neural augmentation.
Imagine "corporate power" concerns where companies can probably control peoples' bodies, and any sort of opposition is against your interests because the only reason your city/country matters is because of the augmentation industry in the first place.
All of these are in the game.
>That wouldn't make sense, then how could Page have been augmented before Paul?
It seemed kind of dumb to give Page his augmentation in the prequel. JC and Paul were supposed to be prototypes to allow Simons and Page to perfect their nanoaugs. Either way you can just say Page's head thing is mechanical. Also MJ12 were studying Paul and nanoaugs since before HR.
i guess
man, is he stupid looking thou
>they never show how augs are taking over society, they just keep repeating it hoping you accept it and move on
Meanwhile, you play as a character who got irreparably fucked up by a team of supermercs who put you out of business due to being all auged out. And you need to be constantly upgrading your own augs to compete, which makes you like a god among men when it comes to fighting street thugs. But no, the game never once demonstrates how people with augs have an advantage over everyone else.
>be rich as fuck
>get brain implant, one of a kind, get even more and more power
>commercialize brain chips, they become extremely popular and almost mandatory for some activities (see mobile phones)
>backdoor in the chips, you can now control the will/thoughts of millions of people
augmentations that translate only in increase of physical prowess are nothing to worry about, but once you touch to mind/brain shit gets fucked fast
was the first Deus Ex set in the distant future of the more current games?
I remember something about some foam explosion terrorist attack from the invisible war game but I don't get the timeline
>except that now the rich can literally buy themselves greater strength, lifespan, and intelligence beyond normal human limits, completely eradicating meritocracy as an argument.
>implying they can't now
Meanwhile JC who is a supersoldier even compared to people like Adam goes down like a punk from a few bullets without specific enhancements.
>HR (2027)
>MD (2029)
>DX (2052)
>IW (2072)
>okay so what do you want your robot body to look like
>uhh make it look I got flayed alive
>are you sure we can make it look really cool or color it to give you a tactical advantage
>nah just fuck my shit up
Deus Ex is 2052, Invisible War is 2072. HR is 2027 and I think MH is 2029.
>foam explosion terrorist attack
Nanite activation, it was the grey goo effect in action. Except for some reason it doesn't consume all of earth, it just stops with Chicago.
I use the dragon tooth sword and speed aug to wreck everyone on sight.
>implying they can't now
Yeah? You can pay money to get your kid into a top college but that doesn't buy them intellect (or they wouldn't need bribes to get in). You can buy better healthcare but you can't get a bulletproof robotic body that never tires with a brain that doesn't slow with age.
Man that irritated me to no end, a game about trying to combat a grey goo event could have been so cool and interesting
>DE:HR and MD: everyone hates augs to the point they're put in ghettos
>few year later, original DE
>nobody gives a passing shit about augs
Religious fags hate it because they hate science and human progression weakens the power of religion
No, because I have stealth ocd and will stealth attack everything.
>but you can't get a bulletproof robotic body that never tires with a brain that doesn't slow with age.
>he doesn't know
Anyone see this kino?
it was surprisingly good
The problem is once it turns on, it's over, we lose. You can't combat the grey goo scenario. Thankfully from what we've learned, nanites don't work that way.
They can't now though. Sure they can pay some private clinics with the best surgeon, gaining what, 10 years? They can't improve their intelligence at all and most importantly they have no control on the minds of people.
>he isn't aware
You can't use that image and not post the video
youtube.com
>And so Google was set up 18, 19 years ago so that they wanted to build a giant artificial system. And Google believes the first artificial intelligence will be a supercomputer based on the neuron activities of the hive mind of humanity, with billions of people wired into it with the internet of things, and so all of our thoughts go into it and we're actually building a computer with real neurons in real-time that's also psychically connected to us that are organic creatures so that they will have current prediction powers, future prediction powers- a true crystal ball- but the big secret is once you have a crystal ball and know the future you can add stimuli beforehand and make decisions and control the future. And so then it's the end of consciousness and free will for individuals as we know and a true 2.0 in a very bad way hive mind consciousness with an AI jacked into everyone knowing our hopes and dreams, delivering it to us not in some P.KD. wirehead system where we plug in and give up on consciousness because of unlimited pleasure but because we were already wired in and absorbed before we knew it by giving over our consciousness to this system by our daily decisions that it was able to manipulate and control into a larger system.
Wait, isn't that the JC ending in Invisible War?
I heard it was alright.
What did you expect, the first game has literally just "what if every conspiracy theory is true" as a story. Leave it to french fags to make it pretentious. But i'm sure they did care because it's a huge class difference if someone can be that enhanced by their prostethics and thus work and live better and also afford the drug to keep yourself from rejecting the robot-things on your body. Compared to a lowly human who doesn't have all that. It's a pretty interesting theme actually. Then they screwed that up by making the cyborgs into zombies at the end.
>what if every conspiracy theory is true
The Greys weren't real, they were genetically engineered monkeys or something.
>they rule
gets me every time
Fucking great film. Love the sudden genre twist at the end.
>- Capital: some people believs augs are flat out cheating their way into achieving success in society, people with resources will blatantly buy their position in the world, not that it already doesn't happen but with augs it will be even more blatant and predatory.
There's also shit like the social augs, IRL people are going to be against shit like Pheromono blasters that let you sway people's emotions.
They're aliens. There's a mechanic in the game who doesn't believe they're aliens despite being told they are and says something like "How do we even know they are aliens? They could have just genetically engineered monkeys to be hairless." and people have, for some reason, taken this to mean they definitely aren't aliens and are in fact monkeys. Their project was considered a failure because it turns out merely cloning an alien doesn't give you some amazing civilized creature with the innate ability to build advanced alien technology. You just got a dumb feral creature much the same as you would if you cloned a human and never sent him to school or anything, just kept him in a cage and treated him like an animal.
He's right though that they're not the roswell aliens. They're clones made from combining greasel and karkin dna (and monkey dna) with what's left of what was supposedly the corpses of aliens. Them being aliens is intentionally to throw people off from MJ12's actual intent.
>cant combat grey goo
Big enough EMP can do.
Because it reaches a point where it's not a choice, like cars are today, you'll need to lose limbs or get brain implants (likely both) in order to remain competitive on the job market.
>that our society just really isn't equipped to grapple with yet, if ever.
Perfect opinion for a clueless fuck on an anonymous imageboard, I bet you have it all figured out
>Them being aliens is intentionally to throw people off from MJ12's actual intent.
I'm dying to know what their actual intent was that necessitated making up the alien story as a fucking cover. And why didn't they do the same for the karkians and gresels which they also made?
Seriously, why are people so against the alien thing? The game is literally What If Conspiracy Theories Were True: The Game and yet for this one thing everyone is always "Not THAT conspiracy theory, though." They had alien corpses. They tried growing their own aliens. The aliens the grew weren't all that smart and couldn't actually help them with anything. The project was considered a failure. They thought maybe they'd make good guard dogs. JC later grabs them and "civilizes" them. That's literally it.
nanomachines son
>Except most augs in HR are just normal people that had an accident and aren't "oppressed"
Actually most augs in HR are petty thugs and criminals.
Actually most of them are cops
Need plot
Go read about the US's current problem with insulin prices and diabetes/extreme-allergy patients. Its basically the same thing.
Does automation not exist?
Why are people better than actual robots and AI anyway?
>like cars are today
I think that's precisely OP's point. We aren't a nation torn on our use of cars. We don't riot about cars. I think a more realistic scenario is that people would unwittingly accept it for the sake of progress and short term convenience, just as we have cars. Excellent analogy.
So thugs
And yet the people who wrote the game come from a society where that isn't a problem.
The basic human need to be watched was once satisfied by God. Now, the same functionality can be replicated with data-mining algorithms.
The analogy works (I just paraphrased ted btw) but it's not so easy for stuff like augmentation, both in-game logic and actual IRL medicine requires people who get transplants whenever organic or artificial to heavily use drugs for the rest of their lives which probably are quite expensive on top of the actual need of receiving surgery and having to lose your legs,arms or eyes or any combination of those.
Perhaps because they read about the USA's problems with high medicine that people can't afford? Or they just took pages from every other cyberpunk future story?
But its painfully obvious that the world is going to have a bad time when aug is allowed to run free. This much is painfully obvious despite the shitty explanation when governments can't even understand facebook.
>The basic human need to be watched was once satisfied by God
I don't think this is actually a thing. Most religions through history DON'T involve an omnipotent being constantly spying on your every move. The Abrahamic religions used the FEAR of surveillance to instill order. Nobody desired it.
I'm just quoting Morpheus in the game.
I think the idea was that people who can afford and maintain top of the line augs tend to get the best jobs because they're more capable physically and mentally than other people.
In turn many people are driven to get augs to stay competitive, but not everyone can afford the initial or running costs, or to stay upgraded. It also involves undergoing invasive surgery and potentially replacing bits of your body that already function with components that have to be maintained mechanically and will be made obsolete when the next generation of augs rolls out, on top which you have to take a highly controlled graft-rejection suppressant for the rest of your life. So if you get augs and fall on hard times you're totally fucked.
Did they ever tackle the economic aspects of augmentation? I remember the series being about government conspiracy though not class warfare.
I agree they're not equivalent, but if you look at cars from the perspective of a pre industrialized techno-scepticist, there's a lot of parallels to the way cars could be viewed as you just now stated in this post. I understand they're different, but for the sake of the discussion, their functional similarities are very, very much worth note.
You didn't pay attention
its literally explained in the game though
>Most religions through history DON'T involve an omnipotent being constantly spying on your every move
Don't they? Monotheistic ones definitely do. Eastern religions have a concept of not disrupting order of things (which is basically like the universe itself is judging you). Polytheistic/Pantheon religions all had gods that watched over you when you took part in certain things (farming, fertility, morning, night, death, etc).
I know. It's just a part of the game that has always bugged me. Denton's arguments against the AI were weak. Basically just pleas. I think it's one of those parts of the game where the writer's opinions took front stage and he didn't want to put it under too much scrutiny. Or maybe he just really wanted the AI to win the argument and so made Denton stupid for it.
If you compare it to something like abortion though, abortion is about killing fetuses/unborn babies, while augs are about people just modifying themselves (it's not like they are forcing augs on their children or anything).
If we aren't in a civil war over abortion, why would augs matter in any context?
>frogposter
>retarded
name a more iconic duo
I didn't have another picture for confusion, sorry bro.
Poor people can't afford anything. The Rich have already won the war.
The answer is always anime girls
Denton's arguments have always been just "DEMOCRACY GOOD"
If I wanted to take the perspective of a writer, I would say that those differences are a product of corporate and beaurocratic influence. There is far more profit to be leveraged from a war on/for prosthetics, from both sides, thus the concept of real social engineering is much more prevalent. I would say that the nature of propaganda to manipulate public opinion would be far more volatile in this scenario than for something like abortion. This fits wonderfully with the megacorp dystopian themes of Deus Ex. The idea that the people are informed or have real personal agency is something that corporations have meticulously fabricated and manipulated. I don't actually think that the people behind nu-Deus Ex are actually that big brained though. We live in a world where most people in these fields focus more on the nature of twitter mobs than the theories of late stage capitalism or propaganda agencies. The writing of Deus Ex has somewhat ironically pulled the blanket further and further over it's eyes as it has progressed with HR and MD. It's also much easier to market material that is simplified in this way.
So, black
Anime posters are on average more retarded and obnoxious that frogposters.
>Anime posters are on average more retarded and obnoxious that frogposters.
Wut
The Eliza Cassan backstory was about that right? What exactly was she manipulating exactly? I don't remember.
Always go with the prod
en.wikipedia.org
The rich literally can't craft anything
>inb4 muh robots
More or less highly specialized technicians are needed to keep the machines running too and they don't make millions off it.
But we have so many images showing confusion
Augs are supposed to be vague enough to connect ANYTHING to it, from gun rights to abortion
They still got more variety than frogposters.
How does gun rights work as a comparison? There's no 200 year old document saying the right to augmentation shall not be infringed backing up one side of the argument.
Normally he's a little better at being antagonistic.
The aug incident along with the whole “safety of people, augs are dangerous, take them away, why do you need a blade arm, the kid was ‘augmented’ so I took the shot”
There are a ton of gun analogues.
Same reason why being gay matters in our world same reason diversity gets pushed same reason we have poltards constantly shitting up this board
>minorities
>randomly slaughtering people
What seems to be the issue here?
That's obvious.
Because they couldn't make a game about how the rich only seem to get richer and the poor poorer, so they went with that.