Why did they go out of their way to make the map system in this game intolerable?

You need one perk that tells you where the fuck do you are, besides buying a lot of shit in the map store like the pencil
Entering to a new area for first time became a "just find the map seller quick" minigame, you can't even enjoy exploring because you need the fucking map
Once you have the map is incomplete, oh and the only way to draw it is sitting in a fucking bench, even when you don't need to, because that respawns enemies, but you need to do it regularly to draw the fucking map

only necessity of drawing by sitting on a bench is cringe, the resit is based as fuck.

I dunno, perhaps because your are suppose to get lost, figure things out yourself, and get genuine clarity moments of your surroundings?

Of course, you could also have it all of that spoon-fed to you, but what is the fun in that?

I can understand that some people may dislike it due those factor you listed.
Personaly, I don't think it a bad design at all, I kinda like it because makes everything more rewarding in discovering a new area.

>exploration it's not fun unless you have a map
Cringe retard

>Fog Canyon

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Home...

>you can't even enjoy exploring because you need the fucking map
No you don't. Learn to have fun exploring. The zones aren't even that complicated.

Nice projection

I guess it depends on what you want from metroidvania game.
Personally, I find the map system and other small mechanics in this game really fucking tedious and needlessly complicated compared to other games in the genre.

How to deal with gameplay stucking?
I feel like i checked every inch and there is no new ways for me to explore.
I don't need spoilers, i just need some advices like "check again"

I'd hate this area more if it wasn't restricted to 2-4 rooms until you get certain powers.

Hit everything. Try pogoing on enemies and environmental hazards to reach areas.

Examine the world map for any paths that don't appear to be explored fully.
Look out for false walls.

Okay, cuntrarians, what are some actually good new castlevanias?

Check again
i found new areas half of the time by simple wandering into it, the other by looking at the map and going: "huh, why is this area so empty?"

La-Mulana 2 is coming to consoles soon.

Rondo of Blood.
IV.
Bloodlines.
Chronicles.

There.

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The only time you need to fucking look at the map is to check an area to see if youve gone down all corridors. Just wandering without the map is always the way to go when you enter a new area.

Most of them require me to do even bigger than default jump or somehow to do very long dash.
I just don't know what to do i killed one dreamer and everything looks so fucked up

are you blind or just jaded? those are all 10 years+ older, i said new

well to be fair you know a genre is fucked when hallow knight is considered the greatest 2D side scrolling game of the decade

Are you braindead?
I was fucking with you because you asked for good castlevania games. I don't know what those have to do with Hollow Knight.

It's pretty bad, but the rest if the game is good. The map isn't really useful until you discover most of the areas anyway since Cornifer is a lazy piece of shit.

Yikes dawg. Didn't you get the memo that you aren't allowed to criticize Hollow Knight?

How can so many people be so wrong in the same thread? Hollow Knight is a near fucking perfect game. God forbid a game doesn't hold your hand and spoon-feed you every part of the game. Go explore you dumb fucks. "I need a map to explore" then look for the map guy. That's what I did. My first aim in every new area was to find the map because it makes exploring easier. But I fucking loved wandering around rooms on the fly, having no idea where I was going next, praying to find the map guy or benches. It adds to the tension and experience.

Also I'm not a fucking brainlet and can remember where I've been in the last 10 minutes without the need for a map. You can even get the map in the fucking shop after a while if you're too retarded to find the map guy. Literally no excuse.

well after I found the map but then the combat screen freeze/shake system was pretty intolerable as well

yikes

from someone who loves hollow knight, dilate

Did you just talk shit about Hornet you motherfucker?!

how about you dilate me with your penis?

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>Entering to a new area for first time became a "just find the map seller quick" minigame, you can't even enjoy exploring because you need the fucking map

This. This is the single biggest annoyance in Hollow Knight. Every new area you go into, you're stressed the fuck out because you must find the fucking nerd that sells you the map of the area. You can't just start mapping it yourself, the game literally doesn't let you. This is AWFUL design. The game would be 100% better if it just allowed you to map the areas by yourself without having to find the fucking nerdbug in his hiding place.

The second worst is that bosses don't have health bars, which makes it extremely unclear whether you're in the "right area for your level" or not. It's needlessly frustrating to not be able to tell whether you should continue fighting the boss that killed you because you almost had him, or explore elsewhere because you were nowhere near close.

Sounds like you're just shit at the game lol

Sounds like you're just shit at the game too lol

look HK is alright man, but it's given way too much credit when it fails pretty hard on delivering a good action platformer game

we can do better, we deserve better

It was one of the best games of 2017

no it was one of the mehist games of 2017

It's got good graphics/music andart style, but I dropped it 5 hours in
The map is uttet garbage and the game isn't linear enough for me. Though I have no doubts neet autists LOVE the game, considering we sometimes have thread about picrelated saying "SHAAAA!" and people mentionning they wanna fuck her bug pussy

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No. The game has design errors in it. That is a fact and nothing you can ever say can change the fact that having to find the map seller, in EVERY AREA, before you can even look at your map, is a design error that makes the game objectively worse. It's worse for every possible player, including yourself, than if it simply allowed people to explore without an artificial, dumb restriction that basically forces people to look up guides of how to find that fucker as fast as possible each time they enter a new zone because one of the most important mechanics is disabled without him.

Nothing is stopping you from exploring without a map

Cornifex usually isn't that far into each zone. Not to mention whenever you enter the room he is in, he starts humming fairly loud, so you know you are in the right area. Also, its kinda fun to roam thru an area with no map at first. It feels like you are truly exploring the unknown!

people like you is the reason i like thanos

>Also, its kinda fun to roam thru an area with no map at first

No it's not, it's literally the opposite of fun.

I enjoyed it, man.

This

The super jump is an ability in the game, do you have the lantern?

>the game isn't linear enough for me.
it's pretty fucking linear, it works like every other metroidvania, you go wherever you're able until you get the item that lets you go to more places

>12
This game clearly isn't for you then

I bet you zoomers need Google Maps just to get to McDonald's for tendies

Super dash*

>Entering to a new area for first time became a "just find the map seller quick" minigame
did you ever play a metroidvania?
Most of them either have you draw your own map or unlock them through special means, like the map rooms in metroid, if you don't like the genre, don't play it.

That doesn't help if you don't have the map yet.

Kek
I'm in my 30s and one of my favorite game as a kid/teen was Super Metroid
Why couldnt they use the exact same system and forget about their autistic system? It's different, sure, but that doesn't mean it's better

You get the map in the first thirty minutes of the game

>play metroidvania
>complain it has metroidvania elements
man, csgo being first person is bullshit, I wanna be able to see behind me.

>You can equip an item that shows you where you are at all times

And that's the stupidest idea I've ever seen. Why not have the ability to save your game unlock only after purchasing a specific item while you're at it

super metroid has map rooms, which essentially work in the same way as the cartogropher.
Also the maprooms in super metroid don't unlock the entire area, some portions of the area you have to discover yourself, only difference is that you have to sit in a bench to get it drawn.

Also complaining about having to buy the pen is retarded, it's just a novelty mechanic and it's cheap and easy to do early game, you only have to do it once and forget about it.

Both of these are legitimate grievances. I would also add that save benches, while evenly distributed if you know where they are, can seem very far apart when you're playing through the game for the first time and don't have them all discovered and can make early deaths very punishing.

There are some fun sequence breaks you can do though.
For example when playing blindly I got the Dream Nail before Mantis Claw. I just realized I had enough geo for the lantern after finishing Greenpath so I went to the Crystal Peak and stumbled upon Resting Grounds.
Then I pogoed off a terrain piece and fought Xero, and after getting Mantis Claw went for the beginning of the game and defeated Gorb. With a couple of trees I had a pale ore before even finding the Nailsmith.

I even saw a possible run of finishing the game without Myla getting infected since it skips both soul master and crystal heart by pogoing off your own shade to reach broken vessel.

>bosses don't have health bars
Really hated this too.

The difference is in Super Metroid if you skip the map rooms you can still see the rooms you've been in. In Hallow Knight before you get the map for an area you can't even see that, it's just blank.

yeah I get that, but you don't always need to find the cartogropher, if you miss him you can just buy the map from his wife.

It's really a minor nuisance at best and I don't see why someone would really drop the game over it, or rage enough to make a thread crying about it, OP, like always, is a faggot.

I really love the mao system in this game. It's not different from super metroid. It encourages exploration and guves a sense of mistery and wonder. Damn i'm gonna boot this game up again.

>playing for the first time completely blind
>get to the crazy thorny dash room/hall in greenpath
are you seriously supposed to bounce off those bugs at the end?
I made it once by sheer luck and died in the final room thanks to it also being full of thorns and having only 1hp left, so I gave up

>Damn i'm gonna boot this game up again
...was it autism?

>wanting to reply a game is autism
Actually, i would call your lack of reasoning autism.

>map isn't boxes for each room and colored lines to show different types of doors

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The map system is one of the game's best features, pleb.

>exploration is a mini-game

OP confirmed retarded.

>This is AWFUL design

You don't know the first fucking thing about game design.

Hollow Knight's map system actually allows you to get LOST. I know that's horrifying for people like you but it's wonderful if you actually care about exploration in a game about exploration. It gives extra weight to every first visit to a new area. You're venturing into the unknown. You have to actually pay attention to your surroundings. Finding the cartographer is all the more satisfying after you've spent time without a map, it makes you appreciate actually having a map rather than taking it for granted. It also makes exploration multi-staged, rather than a uniform experience. Additionally, all map progress is permanent even between deaths. So dying while exploring is never a waste.

The map system is Hollow Knight's biggest contribution to the genre by far and one of the big reasons it's such a good game. Other map systems can't compete.

The mapping system is fine, you fucking mongoloid, and this comes from someone who couldn't find the patience to finish La Mulana.

The map was the best part of the game. If anything the map maker leaving a trail of papers was too easy.

>Hollow Knight's map system actually allows you to get LOST. I know that's horrifying for people like you but it's wonderful if you actually care about exploration in a game about exploration. It gives extra weight to every first visit to a new area. You're venturing into the unknown. You have to actually pay attention to your surroundings. Finding the cartographer is all the more satisfying after you've spent time without a map, it makes you appreciate actually having a map rather than taking it for granted. It also makes exploration multi-staged, rather than a uniform experience. Additionally, all map progress is permanent even between deaths. So dying while exploring is never a waste.

No, fuck you. Being lost isn't exploration, being lost is just being lost. Exploration is gradually replacing the fog of war with locations you know. It's not being dumped into blackness with no way to mark down anything. And there is no fucking satisfaction in finding the mapshitter because I am literally never going to find him manually, I'm always going to just google where the asshole hides rather than put up with that intolerable bullshit.

>tfw finally finally finding Cornifer on the other side of Deepnest after falling down a pit and accidentally saving there

aww zoom-zoom needs his hand held

didn't realize this game had this level of autismos

Bouncing is a basic skill that you'll want to master, but this section is much easier if you come back later.

>Being lost isn't exploration
>I'm always going to just google where the asshole hides

Aaaaaand opinion discarded.
Just accept that some things are not for you, instead of crying about "wahhhh I can't use the map as a crutch 24/7, bad game design!!!!!"

I unironically support Thanos and my faggot friends literally get angry at me about it
I was thinking about getting this game it looks fun, can someone give me the pros and cons of Hollow Knight

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it's funny that mentions La-Mulana, because I found that making my own map as I went in that game was both easier and more fun than dealing with Hollow Knight's bullshit

I was fine with the system of entering a new area and not having a map at first. All good. What I was not fine with was needing to backtrack and having to deal with the combination of the slow nature of the game along with the map/compass system. It just felt like the game was okay with wasting my time, which I don't appreciate.

All in all, I see why people like the game, but I found it middling. I preferred Environmental Station Alpha immensely.

exploring without a map is fine, you just go back over the things you missed once you get it which you would have done anyway
the needing a badge or w/e they're called to show yourself on the map shit is really dumb, the only time I ever took it off was when I was dying to a boss repeatedly and felt like replacing that single badge point would actually help me in the fight
when most of the other badges until late game also aren't straight power increases there's just no reason to not be using the map icon one

That's because La Mulana rewards the player for taking notes and making the map. It's to organize content and have an "ah-ha" moment, not just "how the fuck do I get from A to B"

I too get all my opinions from MatthewMatosis.

I don't know who that is. Is that some Twitch streamer?

Pros
>Is a good metroidvania
>Large game
>DLC is free
Cons
>You have to get gud
>Lorefagging like a soulsborne
>Sawblades

1. The maps aren't that important in Hollow Knight
2. The maps are super easy to find, are typically located close to the entrance of the area somewhere, and there are both audio and trails of visual cues leading you to them
3. If the area doesn't lead you to a map, it's likely a short path through an area that's really meant for later, with an exit in area that does have an easily accessible map

Why do people cry over the maps of Hollow Knight all the time?

Or you’re shit, I didn’t look up where homie was even once. It’s a challenge that comes with a new area and it makes going to them exciting.

In the last run I did, I ended up getting to the peak of Hallownest without double-jump or the crystal dash. Was really fun to figure out new ways to get through the area.

Game design is built around constraint

>pros
Large metroid-vania with plenty of content
Solid challenge (mostly)
Charming art style

cons
Game can feel a bit too big and bloated at points, some areas feel a bit unnecessary and could probably be scaled down
Map system as outlined in this thread has some weird quirks in it
Some of the optional late game stuff can feel a bit cheap and bullshit

can someone help me understand this "map system bad" meme? i genuinely don't get it