Metal Gear Solid

Everything after 3 is shit, except Rising is okay. GZ was a 40 dollar demo and Kojima should be fucking ashamed for putting out that garbage.

those mixed reviews are probably based on the length of the "game" and not based on the quality of it.

Ground Zeroes is 30 min long, get that shit out of here

Why is the metal gear fanbase full of so many storyniggers?
Face it, the only thing you like about ground zeroes is that it has no loose plot threads.

ground zeroes has more mission/gameplay complexity and depth than all of PP

What the fuck was Huey's problem?
What was his motive for being such a bitch?

are you retarded? the thing I like about GZ is the base with all the varied missions.

PP is just story circlejerk and empty maps with the same checkpoints copy pasted everywhere

Obviously, no area in TPP comes even slightly close to the quality of level design Camp Omega had.

Yes, on the fact that it's a paid demo.
And even then the gameplay of both sucks dick compared to anything that came before.
Hell, in GZ all guards are fucking blind, you almost have to try to get caught.

GZ's level design is worthy of a modern COD multiplayer map.

nice $40 demo bro

this

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Never listen to any MGS redditor who talks about gameplay.
They do not care about it, they want movies.
For example, the reason people here like GZ instead of TPP, is because GZ has a bigger cutscene to gameplay ratio.

It's also why they like MGS1-4 despite the fact that the gameplay of these games, the little there is that is, is absolute garbage.

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>Hell, in GZ all guards are fucking blind, you almost have to try to get caught.
He only played the first mission in the rain. Look at him and laugh.

>It's also why they like MGS1-4 despite the fact that the gameplay of these games, the little there is that is, is absolute garbage.

why does Yea Forums like being so wrong?

plz tell me name

jordyn jones

>t.played in the rain at night, while on normal mode with reflex turned on

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may fortune smile upon you and on your sons and their sons

It's hurts because it could have not been the case

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I liked Venom Snake

>reflex turned on
To be honest, the game is designed around reflex mode.
In previous games if you got caught, you could still take out the guard, prevent him from using the radio and save your ass.
In here if they detect you absolutely everyone knows where you are automatically.
And lets not ignore the regenerating health.

MGSV, both GZ and TPP are a designed for casuals and COD kids and only these people are the ones who like these turds.

>To be honest, the game is designed around reflex mode.

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>In previous games if you got caught, you could still take out the guard, prevent him from using the radio and save your ass.
You can do that on both GZ and TPP without reflex mode, you fucking casual.

It's not Kojima's fault. That's on Konami dumb brains

>To be honest, the game is designed around reflex mode.

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You can't.
The moment a guard detects you, the moment the exclamation mark pops, absolutely everyone knows where you are.
This wasn't the case with previous MGS games.
Because MGSV is a casual game built around casual mechanics.

Between this, the regenerating health, the weapon variety and just general lack of challenge, I have no idea who could play these games and get more fun than, say, a yearly rehashed Ubisoft piece of trash.

>The moment a guard detects you, the moment the exclamation mark pops, absolutely everyone knows where you are.
When the exclamation mark pops up you have a brief period to take them out before the alert occurs. Reflex mode takes that period and extends it while pointing you at them so it's easier to exploit. 5 is a far faster game than any previous MGS so making radios a requirement would be overwhelming in the player's favour.
Get good.

>When the exclamation mark pops up you have a brief period
You mean a 2 second long period?

Once again, as I said, in previous MGS games, you could take out that guard, and as long as you took him out before he called in the radio, you could still salvage the situation.
Here?
Nope, everyone magically knows where you are automatically because one guard saw you.

Because it's a casual game built around casual mechanics like reflex mode.
Reflex mode and regenerating health.
MGSV is a third person Call of Duty game.

>The moment a guard detects you, the moment the exclamation mark pops, absolutely everyone knows where you are.
>This wasn't the case with previous MGS games.
The Alert goes on in every single game in the franchise, the difference is now it's on an open map. You are retarded and also very bad at the game.

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TPP has more options and replayability in terms of gameplay and being open ended, but the open world shit where you go and have to find the same resources over and over gets incredibly boring over time, side ops weren't fantastic either, lots of rescue mission shit. GZ is better at having tighter level design because of everything being confined to Camp Omega, which works enough for what it is, but is diminished by the fact the game is essentially a demo for the final product. The story for both is more or less incomplete because GZ was a prelude and TPP lacks a third chapter. Series should have stopped after the 3.

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Yes, the alert goes on, but if, for example, one guard sees you and despite detecting you, you kill him, you should be safe, instead of telepathically communicating to everyone and the command post where you are.

MGSV is a terrible game that's fundamentally badly designed, to make MGSV good you'd need to remake it from the start.

>more = better
this meme had been killing MGS since 4.

>This wasn't the case with previous MGS games.
that's how it worked in mgs1 you retarded zoomer. here's a tip: don't let guards detect you. TPP is the easiest MGS game, you have no excuse for getting caught in the first place

I like how you ignored what I said about 5 being faster and thus guards calling in to activate an alert giving the player too much leeway and then pretended you still had an argument. It's extra funny that you're arguing for the game to become even easier while calling the game casual.

sounds like your just bad at it

>You mean a 2 second long period?
That's quite a while for a game with aiming as easy as V, especially for what is intended to be a clutch save after you've ALREADY fucked up by getting spotted to begin with.

Or better yet, I simply play MGS1-4 instead of this piece of crap.

>I like how you ignored what I said about 5 being faster
Why would you make a stealth game faster?
Who had this absolute retarded idea?
Stealth games are about taking things with patience.
Yet another proof that MGSV is a TPS COD game.

>It's extra funny that you're arguing for the game to become even easier while calling the game casua
There's a difference between making a game easy and making a game fair.
MGS1-4 are hard games, but when you fuck it up, you know why fucked it up.
In MGSV you turn off reflex mode and because this one guard that's like 3 miles away spotted you automatically everyone in the entire base knows where you are and reinforcements are inmediatly called in to your position.
That's unfair, it's not hard because I can just go on a rampage and kill everyone since the game is piss easy and the AI in combat situations is completely retarded.

no need to spoiler fact, user.

>In MGSV you turn off reflex mode and because this one guard that's like 3 miles away spotted you automatically everyone in the entire base knows where you are and reinforcements are inmediatly called in to your position.
>That's unfair,
>Hell, in GZ all guards are fucking blind, you almost have to try to get caught.
Huh?

I prefer MGS Little Big Planet

No it doesn't. Play another series, because you're pretty bad at it.
MGSV is a bad MG but not for his gameplay which is one of the few improvement.
>stealth game must be slow
Lmao
>fair
>getting spotted from far away
Literally too retarded for this game

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I didn't make that claim, i'm talking about daytime missions.
Although I agree that at night the game is piss easy, you can almost sprint all around the base and not get caught.

>MGS1-4 are hard games
oh no it's retarded

its weird because even the best guards in TPP dont spot you unless youre within 40 m of them.

The should have structured Phantom Pain more like GZ. Several large sandbox levels. it's still essentially open, but not quite an open world as such.

The latest Hitman games have carried this off to perfection, and I love those games for it.

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>2014
>playing GZ and thinking to myself how great the full game must be when the demo is this fun

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Sure, they are easy if you play them in lower difficulties.
MGSV is game designed around reflex mode because it panders to brain damaged Call of Duty playing kids.
It's why it has reflex mode, why it has regenerating health, and why being detected and going full rambo is actually simpler than trying to stealth it.
If you tried playing like that in MGS1-4 you'd get obliterated.

>stealth game must be slow
Yes they have.
A stealth game is about seeing patrols and calculating the best moment to sneak by.
Any stealth game that tries being fast is a complete failure, as we've seen in the disaster that is MGSV.

>Literally too retarded for this game
Yes, i'm retarded for trying to play stealthily in MGSV, since the game only rewards you for going fast.
Instead of sneaking around taking out guards or ghosting, the game will give you a better rank for just running to get Paz and bailing out.

this is just wrong though, and i fucking hate TPP.

Fucking bizzare. Just started playing GZ again recently. Shit makes me miss 2016 when we had hope.

Fuck conservatism.

No it isn't.
The moment a guard detects you absolutely everyone knows where you are.
Unlike MGS1-4 because MGSV was designed by brain damaged drooling idiots and Kojima clearly didn't give a fuck about MGS at this point and just wanted to bail out.

too bad they have 5 maps each

MGSV is a bad metal gear game, a bad stealth game, a bad game in general, but an average Call of Duty game.

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I'd rather 5 great maps than 20 shitty ones. Or worse yet, one shit open world.

I unironically think these last 2 Hitman games are amongst the best games out today. They are pure perfection.

I agree. But I don't agree with selling 5 maps for 60€-70€.

Cringe and faggotpilled

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>But I don't agree with selling 5 maps for 60€-70€.
I agree bro, that's why I waited for a while and bought them for €15

but your point about previous games also applies to GZ and TPP. if one spots you and you neutralize him in time, that's it, no more engagement. you're just not used to the combat loop in the newer games, which is fine, it took me a while as well. much like the difference between 1 and 2, 2 and 3, 3 and 4, you have to learn the combat.

contrarian opinion

what mods make pp worth playing? i fucking hated the real time wait bullshit

> if one spots you and you neutralize him in time
In MGSV that time is 2 seconds until he telepathically tells everyone where you are.
In MGS1-4 that time is as long as it takes for the guard to call in the command post.

>you're just not used to the combat loop in the newer games
Combat loop?
Why put any focus on the combat?
It's a stealth game.

That's another thing that I don't understand, why did they put so many resources into different guns with different fire types, accesories and gun mechanics when it's a stealth game?
It's a complete waste of time and money.

Ground Zeroes is literally the first mission of The Phantom Pain that was pulled from the game to charge you fucks more money. It shouldn't even be a separate game.

People here unironically paid $40 for it so they need to tell themselves that the paid demo is totally a full game.

Camp Omega is unironically the best location in the entire game. Phantom Pain may be overall better since there’s just a lot MORE but Ground Zeroes’ location is literally unmatched by anything in PP

>turn reflex mode off
>game is still piss easy and impossible to get detected because the guards are blind and braindead
wow dude, so unfair

>The moment a guard detects you absolutely everyone knows where you are.
>Unlike MGS1-4
i'm getting deja vu. i think i already explained how it worked in mgs1. in mgsv you still have a split second to shoot the guard who saw you, you're just too slow apparently. i think you're the first person i've seen on Yea Forums who's ever said mgs1-4 are hard. compared to mgsv, maybe. but mgsv is the easiest one by a wide margin. if you're getting detected, it's almost certainly just your fault. don't blame the game because you got spotted. unless you're playing FOB's and one of the enemies saw you through a solid wall, because that does happen

are you me

i played mgsv on xbox and its toxic. the whole community is full of backward minded children

THEY PLAYED US

>map with lots of complexity and depth
>open world full of emptiness and same checkpoints copy pasted everywhere and a convoluted story

> in mgsv you still have a split second to shoot the guard who saw you
Oh wow, a split second.
How about we put in the mechanic from previous MGS games where people don't use magic to communicate to others where you are?
Why are you defending this garbage mechanic that clearly received no focus at all throughout the game's development?

you're wrong though. completely wrong. look i was of the same opinion at first, because i didn't know the combat loop much like you don't. you can sneak through the entirety of OKB, get spotted by one of the sharpshooters, neutralize him quickly and change position. there you go, nobody knows where you are. they converge on your last known position, as shooters do for real. if you're not there or if you kill the spotter before the radio call goes out, you're good.

>Why is the metal gear fanbase full of so many storyniggers?
MGS has always been about story presentation since the PS1 version

and that bikini set up. some brazilian guy has a male charcter and he calls it a diaper for christ sake

>toxic
Kill yourself you thin skinned oversensitive millennial manchild.

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the first MGS was on ps1, so yeah

bases
plus you get to see Paz cute feet!

anyone?

I wanna play both, but I dread the 150+ hours it would take me to plat the damn thing...

Why did xboxfags have to let their achievement cancer spread, has completely ruined games for me...

Do shooters automatically read the minds of people who spot something?
Again, there's no defense for this.
Why not put the thing from MGS1-4?
Because whoever was the gameplay director of MGSV had brain damage and played too much Call of Duty, Battlefield and Assassins Creed.

I'd imagine they were mad they were playing what is essentially a demo for Phantom Pain.

I mean, how many interactions do you actually do on a regular basis that's not simply a meme first attempt to try it out?

good, it's the best one

>gets absolutely fucking triggered over a word and calls other people thin skinned

yikes, chief

>Why did xboxfags have to let their achievement cancer spread
The only cancerous thing is how you actually feel the need to get them. Also makes you a hypocrite.

stop using wifi to play online you single served third world chump.
oh and everyone runs. why does everyone run adn expect to be shot at as if... thats how you dodge bullets .lol

>How about we put in the mechanic from previous MGS games where people don't use magic to communicate to others where you are?
they don't. when you get spotted in mgsv, they yell "contact". everyone on base hears them because they're not deaf retards. then their radio officer tells everyone there's an intruder. you're just buttfrustrated that an absurdly easy game like mgsv is pushing your shit in
>oh wow, a split second
oh, you need more than that? then turn reflex mode on you fucking faggot

>Why are you defending this garbage mechanic that clearly received no focus at all throughout the game's development?
because you're criticizing the game for the wrong reasons. you just want the game to be even easier than it already is. instead of just avoiding enemies, you want to be able to shoot them before they call in an alert. and yet you complain that the game is too CoD-ified. so which is it, do you want to play it like a stealth game, or play it like a shooter? sounds like you just want a bigger safety net. fuck right off

>triggered over one word
>calls other thinskinned
uuuh

i have like 20 or so installed, just look on the nexus

>I wanna play both, but I dread the 150+ hours it would take me to plat the damn thing...
ignore TPP since it's longer and many times inferior to GZ

because, you're not going to be a solid sneak right out the gate. combat will occur for the stupidest reasons. i think you're being disingenuous about your claims. again, i fucking despise V, hate it, but learned that shit before completely decrying it. you are wrong in your observations, you can argue all you want but that's not going to change anything. anyway, you're just going to keep being pig headed so good on you. you think shit is bad in GZ and TPP, check out PO or PW, those will destroy you.

>playing
Meant paying for

radio communication has been in the solid series since the start.

Was this meant to be ironic, or are you actually this mad over nothing?

>you're just buttfrustrated that an absurdly easy game like mgsv is pushing your shit in
But that's the thing, it doesn't.
It's piss easy to deal with the hordes that come at you because the combat AI of the soldiers is completely fucking awful, they just come at you like headless chicken waiting to be shot.

>oh, you need more than that? then turn reflex mode on you fucking faggot
How about actual proper mechanics like in MGS1-4, where even if a soldier knows where you are, if he doesn't call in the radio, no one else but the few guards around you know where you are?

>you just want the game to be even easier than it already is.
But that's the thing, the game actually becomes easier when you are detected, even though it's supposed to be a stealth game.
Because the game's design is complete and utter garbage.

I played all previous MGS games, Splinter Cell, Thief and Deus Ex, and MGSV is, by far, the worst stealth game ever made.
Even the stealth missions of RTCW were far more fun and fair to play, even though in that game if you were detected you automatically failed the mission like in the higher difficulties in MGS1-4.

MGSV is a complete embarassment and the last nail in the coffin of stealth games.

>you think shit is bad in GZ and TPP, check out PO or PW, those will destroy you.
I didn't play PO, but I did play PW, and I didn't have too much problem ghosting it, it was just a matter of patience.
Only thing I would complain though is that for the last boss fights you need to go back and grind shit because even the best base guns weren't enough to take it down and you'd run out of ammo and the flares or whatever to call in more ammo.
Overall, I think it was as good as a portable MGS could be. Although I played it on the Vita with the second stick, I imagine on the PSP it must have been a clusterfuck to control.

I don't get why people say this. Look, I played Phantom Pain before playing Ground Zeroes. Everyone kept saying Ground Zeroes had an "extremely well developed base" and that PP should have had bases like that, but this just isn't the case. PP had like two or three bases as big as the one in GZ.
And I was very disappointed too, because I expected action in interiors, and there was nothing like that in GZ. But at least the story was good

>GZ perfectly sets the tone for Big Boss' fall from grace
>Phantom Pain comes out
>it's nothing but cartoonish auteur faggotry and the whole entire plot hinges on some David Cage tier parasite shit
>also, a PREDICTABLE twist ending
JUST

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No MG game is better than MGS3, so that's not really a big deal.

OBJECTIVITY the only reason MGSV isn't as good as it could have been is becasue a lack boss battles/underwhelming boss battles and it was simply not finished.

To fix the not finished part, Kojima Productions should have made Ground Zeroes the first mission like it was suppose to be and not have made P.T.(despite being a masterpiece).

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I am very surprised Kojima approved TPP's story, it just wasn't anything he would put out.
Rising felt much more Kojima than MGSV, and Kojima had no finger in that.

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GZ is the fall from grace. It gives BB a motivation for what he did in MG1 and MG2. It explains what happened with MSF. TPP is just a side story that raises more questions than it answers.

the entire map is empty with the same shit pasted everywhere. the level design and pacing kills TPP

>it's nothing but cartoonish auteur faggotry
You mean what MGS has always been?

Playing Big Boss infiltrating an American black site is one of the highlights of the entire saga for me. TPP was the usual MGS pulp.

Fuck, the game would make much more sense with that first mission
t. someone who played TPP first and had no idea what was going on

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I'm a completionist, I see a low score/percentage and it drives me fucking nuts, to me its just the game taunting me telling me I haven't gotten my money's worth yet, and I'm not finished.

Can't tell you how many games I have absolutely hated but kept playing cause I hadn't gotten AT LEAST 90% of the trophies/achievements, Nintendo is the last bastion from this crap...

Ground Zeroes was supposed to happen after you rescue Kaz.
When Kaz talks to you, there's a flashback to GZ which is just a compilation of cutscenes.
That's when GZ would play.

The first level was supposed to be confusing as fuck from the beginning.

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He wasn't angry. He was just ruthless and punching away the things that he didn't care about seeing anymore.

He let the demon freely flow inside of him, as long it stopped haunting him on the outside. At this point, he lost all feeling.

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oh boy I really hope you don't ever try playing BotW or Odyssey

I still can't accept the guy with his butt out was the real Big Boss
He didn't act like Big Boss at all. Not in the slightest. Totally different guy.

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>He let the demon freely flow
He let the diamond dogs out

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They're the same game, rusetard.

Ishamel is Big Boss. He sacrificed innocents and Ocelot told Big Boss that he was going to sacrifice innocents.

Completely the same guy. Sorry to break it to you.

but with totally different types of level design and mission structure

>demon Bibo model has two eyes
>normal Bibo model doesn't
dafuq

I know

But Big Boss does not act like that. He was too talkative for starters. Got nearly killed by a woman. Threw cryptic hints about being Big Boss, which Snake would never do. Never got inside a box, and just did amateur sneaking overall.

>Got nearly killed by a woman.
he had been in a coma for 9 years. cut the guy some fucking slack

They have the exact same structure, the only difference is that Camp Omega isn't attached to an open world like other bases like OKB Zero.
They took the best mission in Phantom Pain and made it a 40 dollar demo. Same game.

Have and enjoyed them both, don't see why everyone praised Odyssey though, just felt like more of the same to me though, I couldn't see what was so "special" about it.

Anyway all the shit in those games is tied to the game itself, there's no constant reminded on the dashboard or my account if I don't completely finish something, I laughed my ass off at the whole WHO disease classification thing, but when I think about how bad I am when it comes to achievements/trophies it kinda puts the whole thing in perspective.

It's in Emmerich DNA to be a huge fuckup at everything except STEM.

>They have the exact same structure
you're in denial or you didn't actually play GZ. fuck off

The original Big Boss is not the protagonist in The Phantom Pain. Protagonists have rules in Metal Gear, they can't go wild like NPCs.

Protagonists in Metal Gear always have to sneak in a box, they always have to talk with specific conventions, they always have to say "kept you waiting, huh", they have to be godly, they have to be GARY STU, they have to at least be morally grey.

The original Big Boss only did the things he did in TPP because he is not the protagonist. If the phantom weren't the protagonist either, then he would also be a lucky but amateur overtalkative flawed cynical ruthless asshole who doesn't use boxes like Ishamel who is THE ORIGINAL BIG BOSS.

You have a good point
>gets called Big Boss when he's not the MC
>timeline calls the body double "Snake" when he's the protag
>later in the timeline where he isn't, he's called "Big Boss' phantom" when he's a NPC
What kind of autism is this, Kojimbo?

pw is the best but you're actually right that pw is the worst of the espionage operations series

No, play more FPS and stop calling everything CoD, underage.

No wonder MGS went the route it did when even shit like that confuses you.
I firmly believe that the MGS fanbase would be incapable of understanding even the plot of a Ubisoft game.

>Even shit like that confuses you
You know that Venom Snake isn't an actual codename, right, you retard?

>expected the inception of Outer Heaven
>expected a jaded Paramedic performing hellish medical experiments on child soldiers between glasses of scotch
>expected young Foxhound members
>expected Big Boss' transformation into the villain of Metal Gear
>got a crude hodgepodge of whatever media trends managed to impress Kojima that year instead
MGSV was a mistake.

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moron

Shit wrong reply, meant to direct to
Anyways,
It's perfectly understandable though
>Call me Big Boss
>Gets called Snake by the game in GZ without question
Snake is shortword for protagonist. It also means a name that was used for a certain John Doe for two missions in 1964 before he killed The Boss and became Big Boss.

In this case, GZ uses it as "shortword for protagonist". Dumbfuck.

MGS1>MGS3>MGS2>MGS4>>Ground Zeroes>Phantom Pain>>>Peace Walker

Prove it.

What about Survive? youtu.be/pvKIWSSuqwg

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Duh.

I miss all the comfy MGS threads leading up to V's release bros

>Doesn't even say his name
also this shit goes way back to Peace Walker, Snake is not Big Boss' actual name in there either
>Call me Snake
>Uh, oh, sorry Vic Boss
Sneaky suspicious shit like that should obviously tell you that "Snake" is a brand, a mascot, running protagonist gag even if he's not "Snake" in the canon. Nothing of actual meaning.

Have sex faggot.

That's the problem with you, you don't give a shit about the story itself.
MGS is at it's best when it talks about themes that are reflected in the real world.
I mean, people post constantly the Colonel AI speech for a reason.
And yet what you ask is more of MGS lore.
MGS lore is absolute fucking garbage, nothing but an excuse for the games to be set in.
Hell, Kojima gives such little fucks about that lore that it has been retconned in pretty much each game that has come out.

You don't want a good story, you just want shitty fanservice, and guess what, MGS4 was just that fanservice and a game that's all about the lore, and it was boring as fuck and complete trash.

>expected Big Boss' transformation into the villain of Metal Gear
Is he not?
Big Boss already built a Metal Gear and armed it with a nuke by the time of MGSV's events.
In MGSV itself he has absolutely no problem with using civilians, an entire hospital fool of people as human shields and he has absolutely no problem with using Venom as a decoy for him to fuck off and do whatever he wants, which is build a nation that will ensure the world will be in perpetual war.
The Boss, Ocelot and Big Boss himself keep repeating, even in MGSV, that there can only be one Big Boss, and yet at the end he tells you "H-hey, you and me are totally Big Boss, seriously dude."
You were a decoy meant to draw fire, but then he sees that you can be kinda useful and he decides to use you a bit more, even though that eventually lead to Venom's death.

Decent survival/tower defense game that has a great multiplayer mode. Actually lets you make a custom base.

However, it's low budget shows very hard.

That said, as far as spinoffs go, it's no more offensive than AC!D, which sold around the same number of copies.

i need to play the series. i played three, i played the very beginning to twin snakes. i played tiny bit 4. i feel weird i have a fox hound wall paper i barely know the series.

>Decent survival/tower defense game
Fuck no, it has gameplay meant for a stealth game and it shows how contrived that is.

>great multiplayer mode
What?
It was a generic horde mode.

MG Survive is just a rushed in cash in that makes an entire game about the worst aspects of MGSV, which is grinding and running around an open world that has no place in Metal Gear.

>Actually lets you make a custom base.
You mean it lets you put, in a fenced square, a bunch of crafting stations.
Even Fallout 4's base customization is far superior to it.

Metal Gear Survive is unironically better than The Phantom Pain.

More than you could do in MGSV.

>that there can only be one Big Boss
Of course The Boss and Ocelot said that but Big Boss never said anything like that, nigger.

Big Boss did imply that the whole world would be living a lie but he never said anything like "there can be only one Big Boss" directly.

Metal Gear Survive actually has a great atmosphere for how low budget it is. I think it's pretty good.

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I'm playing Twin Snakes for the first time and it's actually pretty good. Hayter sounds like shit (like in all the later games) but if you forgive that and don't abuse the first person mode it's MGS1 with a better framerate and better graphics which is cool to see. The new cutscenes I only like because I treat the game as, like, how Otacon would describe MGS1 instead of how it actually happened.

Survive is nothing but MGSV, except focusing precisely on what makes MGSV a bad game.
It casts aside what little elements it retains from what a Metal Gear game is, and instead it becomes a full blown farming simulator.
It's a terrible game that literally only Yea Forums claims to like, the same place that has been hating on Death Stranding ever since it was announced because both happen for the same reason: Yea Forums is mad at Kojima for MGSV.
That's it, that's what it's all about.

MG Survive is game that wouldn't have stood out even back when these crafting open world zombie games were a thing back in 2014.

>he had been in a coma for 9 years
I don't think so? Big Boss seemed to be fine and was there just to watch Medic

It has Masahiro Ito as a creature designer and still has KojiPro staff working on it.

>amateur sneaking
>that hospital scene
what is good sneaking then?

But he believed it.
Seriously, you think the Big Boss that despised his own clones, Liquid and Snake, to the point of wanting to see them dead, would be fine with a body double?
He isn't, he wants you dead, and he actually, eventually, indirectly kills you.

P.T was probably made because Kojima knew his time at Konami was up, and either wanted to experiment or just to show what he could have done if things didn't end up the way they did.

>to the point of wanting to see them dead
He never wanted them dead, per se. He treated them like any other human being.
>Treat him like a human being, just another person.

>Big Boss that despised his
He didn't despise them, he despised the process of their creation
>wanting to see them dead
LOLNO YOU GOT THE WHOLE STORY ENTIRELY WRONG YOU NEVER LISTENED TO THE TRUTH TAPES YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTE NEWFAG
>would be fine with another body double
Yes
>he isn't
Yes he is.

Its not great but its decent as a budget title. Its biggest flaw was being tied to Metal Gear at all, instead of being some experimental IP that reuses V's assets. It still has memorable moments at least like encountering that giant fucking monster.

>I have nothing to say to him.
>Treat him like a human being, just another person.
Looks like someone didn't play the Truth ending.

>Any stealth game that tries being fast is a complete failure
MG1-MGS2 are all pretty fast-paced, though. You have to watch and understand guard patterns before you move, but they are not slow. MGS2 in particular is rather fast.

>He never wanted them dead, per se. He treated them like any other human being.
He saw them as monsters, and eventually, as enemies.

>he despised the process of their creation
Imagine what he felt about Venom.

>LOLNO YOU GOT THE WHOLE STORY ENTIRELY WRONG YOU NEVER LISTENED TO THE TRUTH TAPES YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTE NEWFAG
Autistic spergs out aside, didn't you play MG1?
Or MG2?
Hell, in MGS4, when Solid and Big Boss meet again, Snake instantly assumes that he's there to kill him.

>Yes
Even if that was true, how can you say then, that Big Boss was still a good guy?

>Yes he is.
He did a terrible job at it, considering he went along with brainwashing you, sending you on a path that he assumed would have killed you just to draw some fire, and then just put Venom through more and more hardships to the point of pretty much sending him to his death.

Shit, I meant to reply to . Fuck.
>He saw them as monsters
No
>as enemies.
No

They weren't enemies to him at all, plus Solid Snake was only stopping his eternal war dream which is why Big Boss tried to kill him in MG2.

Metal Gear Survive literally killed Death Stranding

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Yeah, Death Stranding will flop and we all know MG Survive was a massive success.

>and he actually, eventually, indirectly kills you
I think it's interesting that Venom shoulders the risk, but there's no reason to think Big Boss wanted Venom dead. At least not then. Big Boss certainly wasn't expecting or wanting Solid Snake to leave Outer Heaven in shambles.

>with brainwashing you
It had to be done
>would have killed you just to draw some fire
The phantom had to live for Big Boss to be safe, even if he was back at America or in Outer Heaven.
>just put [the phantom] through more and more hardships to the point
"Remember, he wanted it."

I suck at replying.

>with brainwashing you
It had to be done
>would have killed you just to draw some fire
The phantom had to live for Big Boss to be safe, even if he was back at America or in Outer Heaven.
>just put [the phantom] through more and more hardships to the point
"Remember, he wanted it."

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youtu.be/pvKIWSSuqwg

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Food for thought

Can't wait for MGS6 at E3!

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Elaborate

Joos is cuter

>It had to be done
Why?
Venom was Big Boss' most loyal soldier, why was Big Boss fine with brainwashing him to act as a decoy and attract the entire world's attention to him?
Because Big Boss is scum.

>"Remember, he wanted it."
Ocelot said that, and what the hell would know?
He doesn't even know who Venom is, he never met him back when he was still his own soldier.
That's just manipulation.
Venom never had a chance to agree to it, he never did, and in fact, he constantly sees himself as a demon for it.
Hell, Venom's own actions show that he thinks very differently from Big Boss.

Big Boss has been shown to stop at nothing to achieve what he wants.
Venom saw himself as a demon after killing his own men and in fact, you even literally become a demon if you kill soldiers in the game constantly.
Meanwhile, Big Boss had no problem with using an entire hospital full of innocents as a human shield, he doesn't even have respect for his own men seeing how he had no problem with brainwashing Venom, his best soldier.

Venom on the other hand, it's almost a pacifist. He spared the child soldiers and instead of using them, he tried to give them a normal life. He spares Quiet, spares Huey, and when he finally gets his hands on the Sahelanthropus, he doesn't use it, he just keeps it as a trophy and a reminder that they saved the world, that they are heroes.
He doesn't want to use it because he knows how dangerous it is.

Big Boss would have done theopposite of all of this because he has already done that, and in fact, we know he eventually does similar things in the future.
Big Boss' aim isn't to save the world, its to plunge it into eternal war.

And lastly, lets not forget this.
youtube.com/watch?v=V7VxGn7Piew

In the speech Venom talks to The Boss, he interprets her will, and aims to "drive out his demons" and make the world a better place.
Big Boss, as I said, not only doesn't want to make the world better, but he already rejected The Boss will in PW.

SUCH A LUST FOR REVENGE

Ofcourse, even Kojima says it's still not finished

Literally everyone who isn't Solid is scum doesn't mean their bad Characters, Big Boss is good because he's scum

>Literally everyone who isn't Solid is scum
Not at all, Venom is a good person.
He's literally the only character in MGSV, aside from Ocelot, who doesn't seem to be driven by revenge.
The one going on about revenge and killing Skullface is Kaz.
In fact, Venom seems more in this to stop Skullface because he's a threat to the world and he would achieve the opposte of what Venom wants.
While he aims for nuclear disarmament, Skullface would be basically handing out nukes to everyone, that's the main motivation Venom has to go after him.

Hell, everytime people are angry and shouting Venom always intervenes and tries to calm everyone down.
He hasn't done anything wrong, the "demon" he sees himself and that he claims he has to drive out of him is just Big Boss himself.

It's also why the first thing that happens after Big Boss himself tells him that he is Big Boss too in the ending, is him looking in the mirror and seeing himself as a demon, which, up until now, only happened whenever he did something he felt it was evil and felt guilty of, like when he had to kill all those soldiers in the Quarantine platform.

>and better graphics
It has a higher polygon count of course, but I think the game in general looks significantly worse despite that.
>how Otacon would describe MGS1
He would manufacture a story about how he rolled down a hill?

>nuclear disarmament ending
That's not Venom.
That's the player disguised as Venom.
The person who you play as on FOBs is not Venom. It's literally the player with Kiefer Sutherland's voice. Holy fucking shit.

FOBs not canon
Nuclear disarmament not canon.
The bandana not canon.

You got to learn to reject doublethink bro.

>Venom is a good person
He was. He ultimately throws out his identity and moral reservations to keep playing along as Big Boss though.

But Venom was only interested in getting revenge Skullface at first because of revenge though

Saving the world was a secondary concern

It's just the base itself that's good. GZ is a much more crafted and controlled experience overall. I think the missions of TPP involving the larger bases are as good or better. Also, GZ is boring in the sense that it's just the base and the cliff areas on the side. TPP lets you use much more of the environment in your infiltration, as well as missions that span multiple outposts. TPP is overloaded with gadgets and weapons versus the like maybe dozen total weapons in GZ. And no Fultoning or staff management/ base building in GZ.

>nuclear disarmament
NOT CANOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
Sorry, but Venom rejected The Boss just like how Naked did as well. He never wears her bandana and the nuclear disarmament ending is all reflective upon the player, not any Metal Gear character. You can't even reach the nuclear disarmament ending without an online connection.

>b-b-but that's literally
Don't be fooled by how there's a person that looks exactly and speaks like Venom. That's you, directly your self insert. All of this world peace bullshit is optional, it's in it's own noncanon alternate universe like Jamais Vu.

That's a representation of Venom's goal.
A world without nukes.
Of course it's not canon because we know the world isn't nuke free after MGSV, but it gives more insight into what he wants, and what his goal is. He has his own interpretetation of The Boss' will. Big Boss completely rejected this.

>But Venom was only interested in getting revenge Skullface at first because of revenge though
At first he has absolutely no idea what to do, at first he was completely passive and unsure of what he had to do.
At first he follows Ishmael's lead, then he does what Ocelot tells him to, and then what Kaz does.
But when you rescue Kaz, he literally asks him what to do and tells him to "tell him like he used to" because he's not sure what to do.
So Kaz sends him after Skullface and Venom does it because apparently that's what he's supposed to do, but along the game you start seeing the differences between him and Big Boss, and that, in fact, it turns out that Venom is the complete opposite of Big Boss in many ways.

>I have no idea who could play these games and get more fun than, say, a yearly rehashed Ubisoft piece of trash.
Git gud, just because you're shit without reflex mode doesn't mean the game was built around it.

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pretty much this. the reason why venom is called that is because he can keep all those feelings inside, but not let them poison him. it's like a snake not being affected by its own venom, it keeps it contained. he has big boss' memories and emotions and everything. but he takes the guilt he has of being big boss, and lets it only affect that side of him. his regular self is unaffected, everything is transposed to the big boss side. so that duality of being big boss, but also just some random medic, lets him stay sane. but it also leads to cognitive dissonance. he is big boss, but also not really big boss. however, at the end of the game it comes to a head and he fully embraces being big boss, going insane like the real one. big boss poisons his mind at the end

It doesn't offer an insight to any Metal Gear character's goal, stupid retard.
Kojima said that the nuclear disarmament ending was the player's ending.
A nuke free world was the player's goal.
Not Venom's. Not any Metal Gear character's.

I remember Kojima specifically saying that they were going to make mechanics so that playing without reflex mode would be different instead of just the same but without slowdown.
Well guess what, that's exactly what it is.
Because the game was built around the reflex mode.

Seems like Kojima has realized the kind of audience that plays his games and not only dumbed down the story, but the gameplay too.

Then Venom wouldn't have given an insight into his thoughts about The Boss' will.
But even then, if this is the player's goal, and you think Venom is the player's avatar, then you are agreeing with me anyway.

>Venom's goal
no
He never had this goal in mind
If it's not canon, it's literally not part of his character at all
What part of
>not canon
do you fucking GET

>it's not canon
>it's somehow what he wants
>despite that's not canon, doesn't happen, and thus is not reflective on him

>it looks like him, it sounds like him, everything that he says there is all about him lol!!!!!!!!!1

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Cool, source.

Why are you replying so angrily?

>It sounds like Kiefer Sutherland
>It looks and talks like Venom
>Therefore it's him LOL!!!!!!!!!!!1
What is doublethink? It's the player when you go out on FOBs, he just happens to be in a Venom costume. The nuclear disarmament ending is all about FOBs. FOBs are not canon, they pertain entirely to the player.

see
And even if you are so ofuscated on rejecting that because a "what if" isn't canon, there's a lot in here that you haven't adressed yet.

>DUDE LE EPIC OVERREACTION XDD LOOOOOOOL
The dude is replying to you calmly, why are you sperging out this hard?

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IT'S NOT CANON
THE PERSON IN THE NUCLEAR DISARMAMENT ENDING THAT LOOKS AND SOUNDS LIKE VENOM IS NOT HIM
IT'S THE PLAYER

WHAT THE AVATAR DOES IS NOT WHAT VENOM DOES
THE AVATAR IS SEPARATE FROM VENOM WHEN HE/SHE IS ON A FOB

So?
Why are you replying like an autistic lunatic?

We won't fall for that bait Survive was a massive turd.

>he says things that only venom would say
>but it's totally not venom

Now that's some lateral thinking.

MGS Zombies > every metal gear game ever

Only casuals disagree

Let me try not sounding like an autistic lunatic, "smartasses". Let me try not yelling.

Meta elements can not exist in canon. Stuff such as the Operation Intrude N313 cassette which is obviously fanservice, etc? Not canon.

The avatar is not Venom. He is only there to represent him in the story, while being a device for Kojima let "you" be Big Boss.
In the FOBs, the avatar is him/herself, despite looking and sounding like Venom.
In the canon, Venom is his own character, with his past self having a unique face before the crash.
In the canon, the avatar obviously doesn't exist.
Venom has his own ideals and beliefs which are exactly that of Big Boss, since he is supposed to be a brainwashed version of him.
The avatar may or may not believe in a nuke free world, but it does not reflect anything upon Venom himself.
Venom does not wear The Boss' bandana. He rejects her will.

Stop believing that Venom would say them just because a guy that looks and sounds like Venom did. Doublethink, nigger. Stop believing in everything that you see or hear.

>I'm right
>you're wrong
>I have the evidence
>I also have the evidence WHILE I'M YELLING
>wow what a retard autismo
>yeah lol let's laugh at him
>right, wrong, right, wrong
Yeah, this is Yea Forums alright.

>Venom does not wear The Boss' bandana.
except he does. and everything else you've said is bullshit too, especially that "it's the player in a venom costume" retarded garbage

A new game probably is going to be announced this year, either a remake or MGR2, a game with the boss, or just a MGS6 in general, is a little too early, especially since Konami need to regain the fans.

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user Survive isn't even an MGS.
people callling it MGS are fucking dumb.
are MGA and MGR also MGS?

it's one perfectly designed level versus an entire game with two sandboxes
part of the reason people think this is cause it was their first taste of the MGSV formula and they played it into the ground before they got the real thing

>Let me try not sounding like autistic
you really fucked that up, anyway it's canon that Venom did invade FOBs, so get fucked retard

>except he does
Then find me any promotional material of him wearing it. Find me any cutscene that talks about it. Find me any tape that talks about it.
It's entirely optional. You don't even have to unlock it, you can just leave it alone on your iDroid. It's not canon.

Fuck off.
>bullshit
how
>"it's the player in a venom costume" retarded garbage
That's what "avatar" literally mean

[Spoiler]Survive[/spoiler]>all

>canon that Venom did invade FOBs,
Show proof
Oh right you don't have any
It's not canon

It's been almost 5 years and I still can't pinpoint what the story trailers had that the game lacked so much. There was something so unfathomable surrounding it. Maybe the game pulled a lot of punches (i.e. Snake "shooting" the kids). Maybe it was the lack of creativity (Skull are just glorified zombies, Volgin is literally Volgin). Maybe it's just the editing + music. I don't know.

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Yes, there was a bunch of autists pretending cutscene compilations with 80s songs playing in the background was the epitome of storytelling.

>reflex turned on
Yeah, that's why they penalize you for using it.

Name a bigger jobber than this dude in term of antagonist in MG

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I hope to god they announce a new metal gear game at e3. I don't care if Kojima isn't a part of it. I just need more. I can't say goodbye to yesterday.

>Find me any cutscene that talks about it.
like the nuclear disarmament cutscene that we were originally talking about? if it's in a cutscene, then it's canon, right? so everything in the nuclear disarmament cutscene is canon. glad we cleared that up

Okay
There are FOBs and PFs do have them
But the FOBs in the gameplay are not the FOBs in the canon
The FOBs in the gameplay are entirely the avatar's
Having multiple, 500+ Big Bosses around the world makes no sense

I bought this game on steam and played 2 minutes and didn’t even enter the starting bass. Then I uninstalled and never touched it

No idea why just felt wrong not with a PS controller

PC didn’t have soul

>entire game with two sandboxes
two empty shitty sandboxes with less replay value

>It's a cutscene
>Therefore it's canon
I'm not associated with any of these retards
but no, what the fuck are you talking about

The trailers ommited the dumb as fuck wolbachia parasite shit and soldiers are actually just STATS.

The whole motherbase thing was cool in theory, but the actual implementation was so pointless.

I would've preferred a squad-based game with characters with colorful personalities like being the leader of your own Fox Hound unit And then see them die one by one.

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It doesn't talk about the bandana idiot, it may talk about The Boss but it doesn't have him wear her bandana or any crap belonging to her.
It's clearly not Venom bro.

>guy goes on to explain how Venom and Big Boss differ
>autists go on to talk about how this one stupid cutscene is canon or not and about bandanas
I think I understand why Kojima hates MGS and it's fanbase so much.

Venom might be different from Big Boss and Solid but he followed Big Boss to his death which was badass as fuck but that wasn't morally good, I'm sure there are plenty of fucked up things Venom ended up doing between the time of TPP and Operation intrude, maybe reluctantly but who knows, all that we know is that Venom followed Big Boss's orders until the end

>Good, good dog.
GOAT.

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I need one with Laughing Octopus and Paz for "Laugh and Peace"! youtube.com/watch?v=rXlecWr194M

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>what the fuck are you talking about
i don't know, that's his own retard logic

>It doesn't talk about the bandana
not the point, retard. the conversation was originally about whether the nuclear disarmament cutscene is canon. apparently if i were to find a cutscene detailing the bandana, that would make it canon. hence, the nuclear disarmament cutscene must be canon by your own metric, because it's a cutscene

Whenever I go...

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Yes, but he didn't feel good about it, as shown in the ending where he sees himself as a demon when Big Boss tells him that they are the same.

He wanted very different things. He wanted to make the world a better place and he followed Big Boss without realizing that he is not a hero, that he's a complete lunatic.

>cutscene = canon
I'm avoiding trying to talk with anyone in this stupid argument but holy fuck this is the dumbest thing I read all day.

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I firmly believe that you can put MGS fanboys to play a Call of Duty campaign and they would need years of infographics to understand it.
People shit on Kojima for not being subtle, but everytime he tries being subtle people completely ignore everything about it.

The nuclear disarmament scene doesn't detail the bandana in anyway you fucking moron. The bandana is not canon and neither is the nuclear disarmament scene.

This helmet is from Survive right?
Swapping files between the two games is quite easy, you can even play on some survive maps. youtube.com/watch?v=7ApufCqUEKY
i hope it will be the same for the next fox engine MG, or even next MG game in general (beside PES who used a modified version called the fluidity engine. )

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way to miss the point even when it's explained in detail. how do you manage to breathe on your own?

Aesthetically the game looks fantastic, I agree that MGS1 is slightly stronger (helped that it's one of the best looking PS1 games) but Twin Snakes is still one of the best looking GC games and looks as good as MGS2. I haven't gotten to any hill rolling parts. Honestly, just treat it as non-canon. It's not like anyone considers Acid canon, for example.

>A character's motivations in a cutscene that's not canon somehow apply to the character
What, no. Venom Snake didn't want any of this world peace or nuke free world bullshit. That was a "what if" Jaimais Vu thing that's an AU. You don't even have to unlock it, it's all dependent on the playerbase.

I'm not that dumb retard but you really need to think story 101, Yea Forumstards.

I really liked the story in MGSV. I didn't even mind the twist that you weren't playing as big boss.

What I really fucking hated was that the 3rd chapter got fucking jacked. That and the return to Camp Omega was a fucking lie. Holy shit open world was really a mistake for this game. I wish they made seperate levels like camp omega and just have a hub based system to drop you in the areas.

>i were to find a cutscene detailing the bandana, that would make it canon
Which is why I said
>The nuclear disarmament scene doesn't detail the bandana
What made you think I missed the point?

>hat the 3rd chapter got fucking jacked.
Third chapter was never a thing. it was an ending screen.
KoF was DLC from the start and was cut quite early.

The retard's opinion.

Yes

Survive better than all of them

Truth.

You are literally talking about MGS2. MGS2 is the only game in the series that does what you've mentioned. No other game does this so stop pretending that every game in the series does.

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>Aesthetically the game looks fantastic,
I don't agree. Twin Snakes is pretty bland looking. It's not a bad looking game, but the original just has a stronger presence. I don't hate TTS or anything, I just don't ever feel any reason or need to play it over the original.
>KoF was DLC from the start and was cut quite early.
Maybe, but it still renders Eli's entire presence in the game somewhat pointless. Don't get me wrong, the entire idea that Eli steals a Metal Gear as a preteen is kind of dumb and I don't really think we needed to see baby Liquid to begin with, but the ongoing thread of chapter 2 is Eli and what he's up to, and it just fizzles out into nothing. It's easy enough to guess that Venom and the gang hunt them down and destroy Sahelanthropus, but it's still a pointlessly dropped thread.

>Venom Snake is Big Boss
>"I'm Big Boss, and you are too"
>Big Boss is the character that wanted to bring the world to eternal war, devastation, chaos and suffering, and rampage
>Big Boss is also the character that wanted a nuke free world free from the pains and clutches of war
I like how you morons missed the point of TPP's doublethink. Only one of these truths are correct. Not siding with that screeching asshat, but even after three years no side can even understand.
Goons like you literally took it way too far and say that Venom is better or worser because of things that got misinterpreted or never happened because you're too stupid to actually look at his story the other way.

Seriously? I thought KoF was suppose to be in the base game. It needed another send off to be honest. That ending felt like something you should've seen in the middle of the game. I have no idea whag they could do to make the ending satisfying. Any ideas?

Guess it really was game over.

I platinumed GZ but didn't even finish TPP.

>the bandana is canon
Then why is it optional? Why do I not get a fancy cutscene of Big Boss washing or lathering his fancy head with it? Why is it that I simply have it in my iDroid with no fanfare whatsoever?

>lovingly repaired

The "Truth" ending is the ending of the game, and I think it's a somewhat satisfying one at least in terms of how the game is structured despite how weirdly the game handles it. Skull Face's death is the ending to the plot, and chapter 2 in general is just the game's epilogue with "Truth" acting as the capstone.

That only implies that Strangelove repaired it since she's a The Boss fanatic.
People on here really love to take a miniscule detail that means nothing for granted.

Blame Kojima for the whole Eli shit i guess. V really have a weird felling.
Still, i wonder what's next for the serie, Survive was just a minor project, the big guys who stayed at Konami (Quite a lot of them, including the main MG writer since MGS3 who also directed ZOE2 and the MGR writer and producer) weren't working on it (Survive was made by secondary members mostly.)
Satisfactory ending should have been one with an old venom facing Solid Snake (voiced by Hayter) before the screen fading to black.

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Anyone remember the triangle guy theory?

See the thing is Survive is actually better than MGS5 or PP and you're retarded.

Survive is far from better than the original MGSV, while it's not really bad either, it's a spin off and shoudn't really compare with a main game.

>i wonder what's next for the serie
Hopefully a new continuity with new characters. The current story should be left alone. My more realistic guess is it'll be some kind of awful, fanwanky remake that dipshits easily duped by high polygon counts will jerk off to.

finished demo > two thirds complete game

For me, there's 3 things that need to be made :
>first : a remake of one of the game (maybe some other released even after the reboot for the old fans.)
>second : MGR2 to finish Raiden's story
>third: a game with The Boss
After that, they can do a soft reboot with a new character, or even a complete reboot.

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Off topic, but honestly when am I ever going to talk about this game.

Gameplay and graphics aside. How was the plot and choices? I've played janky games before and I pretty much assumed this was Japanese Alpha Protocol with less choices. Worth playing?

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>Venom Snake didn't want any of this world peace
venom & big boss knew that peace was only a dream, but they still worked towards making it as close as they could to a reality (until MG1). you don't ever start shit in PW or TPP, you only ever get called in to defend x/y/z or rescue some unlucky schmuck. they're clearly not warmongers, they're closer to peacekeeping forces if anything
>or nuke free world
it's bad for business. if everyone is building nukes, then diamond dogs needs to as well, otherwise they're sitting ducks. but building nukes also makes them a target, like what happened in GZ. so dismantling nukes is the only solution that puts everyone on equal footing without also putting giant bullseyes on their backs

>What made you think I missed the point?
because my point was never that that cutscene had the bandana. i've seen the cutscene, i'd have to be blind to make that assertion. the point was that going by your logic, if something is in a cutscene, that would somehow legitimize things and make it canon, because you asked for a cutscene with the bandana in it. and nuclear disarmament is in a cutscene. so by your own logic, nuclear disarmament is canon.

because the player being in a venom costume sure as fuck isn't, and is probably the most retarded thing i've read on this board in recent memory

strangelove didn't understand the significance of the bandana. it was given to snake in mgs3, she wasn't there

The ending is supposed to say that Venom Snake and Naked Snake are Big Boss despite being two different people.

You're supposed to be fooled into thinking that aside from the Paz hallucination, this is literally the guy that you're playing as from Snake Eater and Peace Walker. If they made either one have a different personality the, the twist would be ruined.

Venom or Naked wanting the world to be nuke free, war free or "a better place" wouldn't make sense to either of their characters, it would throw everything off.
There's that nuclear disarmament ending, as everyone said, but come on, are you literally going to believe everything that the game tells you?

user i just played it.
>plot wise
It actually was pretty good, at least i liked it.
>Graphics
Already even if it's not perfect either, maybe a little dated
>Gameplay
Well it depend ,do you like games that play like a PS2 game?
they released a patch to add an easier difficulty for those who struggle with the very dated mechanics.

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Wait, in MGS2 if a guard sees you it's not an instantaneous alert nor does it count as an alert for a stealth run, the guard has to CALL the alert, but I don't think every guard literally knows where your are when there's an alert because they spot you in the other games, while this is true for Phantom Pain (being open world make it even more shitter, because the WHOLE WORLD knows where you are, yes, first literally, then the surrounding area.

>Already even if it's not perfect either, maybe a little dated
I mean "alright", not already, got a branfart.

What the fuck was his deal?
I know that it's a MGS thread and that Survive isn't a "solid" but still.

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Mind selling me a bit on the plot? Oh boy I fucking love janky games. Am I right in saying it's Japanese protocol? Do the choices actually matter? Is it pretty much do a bunch of choices to get a good ending else you'll get a bad ending?

Sorry for asking so many questions, it's hard to find people who actually played it.

>Venom or Naked wanting the world to be nuke free, war free or "a better place" wouldn't make sense to either of their characters, it would throw everything off.
naked doesn't care, but venom clearly does. just means that big boss is red oni, and venom is blue oni. yin and yang

he was losing his former self and becoming assimilated into the lord of dust hivemind. not unlike venom losing his former life and slowly becoming big boss. which is why he has a horn like venom

For the good ending : you need to rescue every survivors and good character in the story
for the bad ending : rescue no ones, do shitty choice (some choice arei important, other aren't. )
As for the plot, it's kinda complicated, there's some kind of civil war and some political shit. it's not like MG tho.

>there's 3 things that need to be made
Nothing needs to be remade, and The Boss has been milked enough already. I wouldn't mind a MGR2, but to be honest the story and connections to Metal Gear were what I liked the least about MGR. Raiden's story was finished in MGS2 and double finished in MGS4. Then MGR cracked open a Monster and put on some hot-blooded cringe-rock to LET 'ER RIP and decided to butcher Raiden as hard as Raiden butchers everyone around him for a giggle. Even MGR gives Raiden a complete character arc, though. Its ending didn't really strike me as sequel bait.

Tfw his goal literally was to make the "world whole again" in a fucked up way.
Survive was a cheap spin off but i actually kinda liked the weird story. game also had some connection with Rising, and even had most of the cyborgs weapons from it + one of the boss weapon. (the boss from the bladewolf DLC.)

If my avatar is Venom
and if I refused to give a damn crap about FOB nukes and built and stole my own on my playthroughs

That means that Venom didn't care about world peace

Do the endings vary based on your choices or is it just set in if you saved x person?

For the plot itself, what other games would you compare it too? I don't mind playing it but it doesn't have a stupid ass plot or twist I'm going to regret 20 hours later.

user Raiden in the ending of Rising is either going full big boss or full The Boss. the codecs also have a shitload of sequel bait thing with Raiden saying to Sunny he can't "stays doing nothing and have to change the world".
a Rising 2 is probably the most likely next MG game beside a remake of MGS1, MGS3 or MG1 (but if it's MG1, it would be more like MGS6 because of all the shit that need changes.)

As for the plot, i don't know, maybe Ace combat?
As for the endings I actually don't know, i just finished the game right now. i will try another playtrough in some days.

>What's next for the series
They make Boktai: Snake Legacy.
A tactical ARPG on the switch. Please look forward to it.

>yin and yang
That would make the two incompatible though. You can't have Big Boss being two people if they're yin and yang. They can only be yin and yin, especially if Naked chose to be yin.

They're supposed to be inseparable, by belief and action.

Metal Gear makes it clear anyway that Yang is supposed to be Solid Snake.

Pottery

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Solid Snake is the only true Snake, bitches.
Venom and Naked can go fuck off and be Big Boss.

Here's to a new eventual MG1 remake that shows Venom being a chaotic warmongering letdown like Naked.

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I thought V was amazing for the first 10 hours or so, only problem is it gets repetitive and grindy after that. They took the worst part of Peace Walker.

Thanks user. I'll give it a try. I guess I'll play on really easy to get through the jank.

>user has completely uncontroversial idea and decides to make a thread like it's unpopular and contentious.

>You can't have Big Boss being two people if they're yin and yang.
says who? red oni and blue oni were a big part of venom & bb's characterization in mgsv. game was called project ogre for a reason. it's why venom has his horn, and a strap for a tail

>ending of Rising
I didn't see it that way. Rising's ending is a typical "the fight goes on" ending; it doesn't point to any particular conflict or any particular unresolved thread in the story. It leaves things open for a sequel, but that's not the same as demanding or even hinting at one.
>beside a remake
I'm sure a remake of some kind will happen even if I'm not at all looking forward to it or interested in it. I also suspect that it will be shit.

Yea Forums was going to like Survive (and hate Death Stranding) no matter what, because this was about spiting Kojima.
Thank god Yea Forums's opinions are irrelevant and the game flopped.

>tfw Huey actually wasn't lying about the UN inspector, they were just late.

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Well, Murata could make a great MG and he didn't worked on Survive, so finger crossed he's working on the next one.
The cyborg in the ending with Raiden also are never seeing in the game, confirmed they aren't world marshal/desperado.

But that doesn't make any sense, in Ground Zeroes' ending they say that no such inspection took place.

Lel you're not going far enough Yea Forumseddit. Just say the pachinko game is god teir and proves that Kojima is a hack.

the inspector just were late by a day.
user, pachinko aren't games, they aren't even made by the same guys and division.

>the next one
Next what, MGS?
Why the fuck do you want more?
MGS4 already ended the plot and PW and MGSV were utterly pointless and added nothing to the story.

MGS drones like to pretend they like well written stories but then you go on to focus on MGS' shitty lore and then ask for infinite sequels to a story that has already ended.

>"Of course it's not canon"
>"but it gives more insight into what he wants and what his goal is."
>despite that it none of the ending or what anyone might have said mattered to any of the characters including Venom because it's not canon
Nigga what

The red oni and blue oni applied to Solid and Liquid Snake, dumb bitch ass.

>tfw that wasn't the UN inspection team, that was a rescue team that came because MSF got blown to shit, and huey is still a guilty lying traitorous son of a bitch

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Camp Omega.
Home.

>the inspector just were late by a day.
So what?
They said that no such inspection took place.
And why would the UN even contact Huey when Huey was actually contacting Cipher?

>varied missions
>all in one small base
based

Either a game with the boss, or a soft reboot with a new character. could also make a game with Snake and Philantropy between 2 and 4.

T. Miller the traitor
Daily reminder that both his voice actor and his japanese voice actor have confirmed they were the guy in the tape with Paz (the "Give her a shot already!" guy).

The plot of MGS has grown stale, the lore of MGS is absolute garbage that gets retconned in every entry and they clearly have absolutely no ideas about where to go regarding gameplay.

Why can't things just end?

Anyone just feel really disappointed with death stranding? I don't know why the new trailer killed so much hype for me. I was the type of dude to keep watching the reveal trailer over and over again.

>I'm Big Boss and you are too
They're supposed to be perceived as the same, dingbat. Had Big Boss been in the face of the crash, he too would have had the horn and he too would have worn the strap had he went out to fight with Diamond Dogs.

When you're talking about red oni and blue oni you mean Solid snake and liquid snake, which has nothing to do with what you're even trying to say, which in turn what makes your point nonsense.

>kaz was in cuba and also at MSF at the same time
nope, try again

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The story look interesting (even if i'm a little scared it will "jump the shark" because Kojima cowriters didn't followed him.) but i'm not very sure at all about the gameplay. i will still dayone the game but i'm cautious.
eitherway the game will never get critized by the media because "it's Kojima" but still.

>eyebrows

Just do a soft reboot with a new character or even a full one then.
MG won't end like that when it's Konami biggest IP beside PES. and beside we need a MGR2.
and remakes also are probable.

>all of this shit written
>retarded MGS drones focus entirely on "HURRRR BUT LE DISARMAMENT IS NOT CANON DURR"

MGS might have one of the most stupid fanbases ever.
It reminds me a lot of Dragon Ball Z, where the creator just wants to write a goofy story and it's stupid fanbase is incapable of following the plot of a story that feels made for kids.

MGS is the same, anytime Kojima tries to be subtle MGS redditors completely lose their mind and go full retard.
No wonder he started making Snake go
>Snake, you must go here.
>Go here, huh? So I must go here, gotcha, I am going to go here.
Because it seems it's the only dialogue these people will understand.

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>I'm Big Boss and you are too
that happens much later. TPP takes place in 1984. that scene takes place at least 10 years later, because solid snake's infiltration mission is about to take place, which happened in 1995

>supposed to be perceived as the same
no, they're really not. they're clearly meant to be contrasted with each other. red oni and blue oni has nothing to do with solid/liquid snake, you're getting things mixed up

MGS will end because Konami is focused on developing smartphone games which are far cheaper and profitable than Triple As.
It's the entire reason why Kojima bailed out, because Konami froze all Triple A development to focus on phone games.
The next MGS you'll get will be a gacha smartphone game.

I think that's what it was. I was expecting a silent hill type game and got a darker typical PS4 cinematic adventure game

Holy fuck I witnessed this.

>Naked
>Venom
Venom isn't the opposite of Naked you idiot. "Venom" implies the ooze of a Snake.
Venom is the ooze from naked.

Those digitz

True and it's not MUH CONTRARIANISM, there are pretty objective stuff that are better in Ground Zeroes. I just don't list them because with 300 posts someone probably already did.

>MGS will end because Konami is focused on developing smartphone games
user if this were the case Konami wouldn't have made more game last year than 2016 + they woudn't have created a new studio just for games.
Also, a MG gacha already happen, made by Gree, and Konami themselves closed the game after less than 2 years because it was shit.

>that happens much later.
You have no evidence of where the Truth mission even takes place. You have the Operation Intrude N313 cassette, but that's not even possible to make sense of canon wise.

>red oni and blue oni has nothing to do with solid/liquid snake.
Uh, yes. Here, let me have TV Tropes explain it for you since I fail to reason with you.
>Whereas Solid Snake is usually calm, generally soft-spoken, and tries to compartmentalize his emotions, Liquid Snake is brash, arrogant, obnoxious, and overconfident.

Yeah, they have a ton of games.

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That's not good to post not complete shit, and it also doesn't count the ports like Requiem.

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>You have no evidence of where the Truth mission even takes place.
see
>You have the Operation Intrude N313 cassette

>Here, let me have TV Tropes explain it
yeah sorry, i'm not interested in what tvreddit has to say

What a fucking tonal shift from GZ to TPP. The prologue was so fucking good at setting the supposed downspiral of BB into madness, only to blue ball us with "jk, you aren't the real BB, but ANYONE can be BB!" while the interesting shit was happening off screen.

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>that scene takes place at least 10 years later
That wouldn't make any sense, though. Venom would obviously know about the real Big Boss before he went to work with the real Big Boss at Outer Heaven. The Operation Intrude tape is just a bit of self-reference that hints at Venom's fate.

Then just make a new IP.
What's up with millennials and their obsession with only ending stuff until they are run into the ground?

I swear MGS fanboys won't stop asking for more MGS until they see the franchise become a multiplayer battle royale.
Let me guess, some retard will say "HURR THAT WOULD SUCH A GREAT IDEA"

Wrong.

>The prologue was so fucking good at setting the supposed downspiral of BB into madness
What madness?
Big Boss never went insane, he was always collected and knew very well what he wanted.
Also, see
He was already an unhinged villain by MGSV, from the very first mission you can see that.

>the interesting shit was happening off screen.
What, him fultoning soldiers for inland motherbase?

>Venom would obviously know about the real Big Boss before he went to work with the real Big Boss at Outer Heaven.
that scene is precisely when venom learns about the real big boss. the other side of the tape lets venom know what's about to happen with solid snake's mission. venom & big boss both work together in MG1 in order to lay traps for snake and ambush him

>>user has completely uncontroversial idea
read the butthurt TPP fanboy posts ITT

Why haven't all MGS and Kojima threads been banned from Yea Forums, again?

>Character's motivation and goal in a noncanon scene somehow applies to a character despite not being canon
I can't understand this backwards logic.
>"tell him like he used to" because he's not sure what to do.
Because he just got out of the hospital and he needs his mind to be refreshed after nine years?
>but along the game you start seeing the differences between him and Big Boss
What differences, you don't even mention them

>Big Boss fine with brainwashing him
Zero did it all, Big Boss just went with it after the damage was done. Under two weeks pressure to come up with a plan, he couldn't do anything more than playing along.

>He doesn't even know who Venom is, he never met him back when he was still his own soldier.
Characters in the games can say lines that pertain to the meta, not strictly adhering to the canon per se. They know that they're in a video game and they can joke about it all they want. See the scene in PW where Huey meets up with Big Boss and recalls Solid Snake meeting up with Otacon in Shadow Moses as "deja vu" a foreshadowing of what would come, and a reference to how Metal Gear Solid was released in 1998.

>Hell, Venom's own actions show that he thinks very differently from Big Boss.
OK, show me those actions.

>Big Boss has been shown to stop at nothing to achieve what he wants.
Only because he isn't busy being the protagonist for once.
>Venom saw himself as a demon after killing his own men
>he constantly sees himself as a demon for it.
It's all the hallucinations from his horn. Had Big Boss got the horn, he too would have hallucinated himself as a demon.

>He spared the child soldiers and instead of using them, he tried to give them a normal life.
Kaz was the one who wanted to give them an education, nincompoop. Venom only went along with it to avoid having a bitchfit with Kaz. Didn't even show agreement or objection.

>spares Quiet
Had Big Boss would have been the protagonist, he would have too.
(2/2)

You're not getting my point, though. That very same scene also suggests that Venom is *at* Outer Heaven judging by the change in the background logo. Even if we assume DD's Motherbase was maintained as an Outer Heaven Outpost and the logo in the background literally changes eventually, he would still need to know about the real Big Boss before he and DD were incorporated into Outer Heaven. Ocelot also apparently wakes up from his hypnosis before Outer Heaven is established, judging from his conversation with Miller. There's no reason for him to wake up from his hypnosis and let Miller in on the truth when Venom himself is still in the dark.

For starters his war with Cipher/Zero, this was set up in MGS4 as long lasting fight until BB put an end to it when he unplugged Zero, now with MGSV we found out he provided BB shelter for nine years and his own mind controlled puppet. His whole deal with recruiting child soldiers, Sniper Wolf, Frank Jaeger and him building up Outer Heaven after losing everything seemed more interesting and dark than some deformed guy that was completely erased from history and vocal cord parasites.

This was supposed to be the "missing link" but the way it was writen makes it completely irrelevant because none of this characters matter or were ever mentioned.

Battle royal literally was invented by MGO2
and then , when Konami will make the new ip, people just will say "why not making a Metal Gear? you abandonned the franchise!"

>Sahelanthropus, he doesn't use it, he just keeps it as a trophy and a reminder that they saved the world, that they are heroes.
>He doesn't want to use it because he knows how dangerous it is.
You want the protagonist to actually do evil stuff in a franchise where it's always bad to be anything below morally grey. Think about it.

>nuclear disarmament scene
It's not canon. Nothing he says there matters to his character. How idiotic do you have to be not to understand?
He didn't talk to The Boss, he didn't care about her will, he didn't drive out the demons and he didn't want to make the world a better place because this ending is not canon. If this ending is not canon, neither is what he did. He's not even wearing The Boss' bandana.

Pardon me. supposed to be (1/2).
was supposed to be (2/2)

MGS 3 did it too. You could even shoot out their radios.

Why do Big Boss and Venom Snake lose their eye brows in GZ and TPP?

>Had Big Boss would have been the protagonist, he would have too.
nope. he would have killed her, just like he killed the boss. you know every time in the game when kaz and ocelot argued? the real big boss would have sided with kaz, and it's why kaz gets so frustrated

>That very same scene also suggests that Venom is *at* Outer Heaven judging by the change in the background logo.
that doesn't really contradict what i said. i know he's at outer heaven
>he would still need to know about the real Big Boss before he and DD were incorporated into Outer Heaven.
unless venom was the one who built outer heaven, and big boss was the one who built zanzibarland

ocelot's conversation with miller is less clear. i know some people believe it takes place early in the game. we don't know if ocelot actually hypnotized himself either, that could be bullshit. it would make more sense if he didn't hypnotize himself, actually. he keeps putting venom into risky situations in order to draw out threats, which is what he'd do if he knew venom wasn't the real big boss

>his war with Cipher/Zero
Outer Heaven and Zanzibarland *were* his war. Obviously they existed to put Big Boss's vision into place, but the Outer Heaven Uprising and Zanzibarland Disturbance were Big Boss's big coups against Zero and the Patriots. Nothing really ever suggested much beside that; the whole point of FOXHOUND was that it was a useful cover while he kept his real goals secret.

MGSV does absolutely retcon Zero's relationship with Big Boss, but there was never a big open war with Big Boss pew-pewing the Patriots or whatever. That's what OH and ZL were for. There was never a "missing link."

>user/samefag who thinks that Venom rejected The Boss finally stood up with rational arguments
It finally took you more than ten posts to actually have a good point.

>Because he just got out of the hospital and he needs his mind to be refreshed after nine years?
You mean right after Kaz refreshed his mind about what happened in GZ?
Venom didn't want revenge, he was never into it and never showed anything that pointed at this.

>What differences, you don't even mention them
>OK, show me those actions.
See
That's a whole bunch of them.

>Big Boss just went with it after the damage was done
Big Boss could have simply told Venom.
I mean, he did, but because it was convenient, just like it was convenient to not tell him at first.

>Characters in the games can say lines that pertain to the meta, not strictly adhering to the canon per se. They know that they're in a video game and they can joke about it all they want
Then the nuclear disarmament speech is relevant.

>Only because he isn't busy being the protagonist for once.
What?

>It's all the hallucinations from his horn
Now you use realistic logic when a few sentences before you tried to argue that Ocelot knew Venom wanted to get brainwashed because of videogame logic?

>You want the protagonist to actually do evil stuff in a franchise where it's always bad to be anything below morally grey
You mean like how Big Boss built ZEKE and armed it with a nuke as deterrence?

>He didn't talk to The Boss, he didn't care about her will, he didn't drive out the demons and he didn't want to make the world a better place because this ending is not canon.
But did he act out of character? Or is it in line with everything he's done?

>He's not even wearing The Boss' bandana.
So what?

You don't realize that freedom that NPCs have to do whatever they want compared to the protagonist, right?
>"Call me Big Boss" in Peace Walker, still the protagonist
>Gets called "Snake" right afterwards and everybody ignores him, still the protagonist
>Gets called "Snake" in Ground Zeroes, still the protagonist
>Is only called "Big Boss" in The Phantom Pain, NOT the protagonist

the hell does any of that have to do with anything i said?

>He's not even wearing The Boss' bandana.
This is why I will always think that the MGS fanbase is one of the most retarded of them all.
You either completely miss out on symbolism, or you take symbolism retardedly seriously to the point where symbolism drives the story for you.
It's like a kid trying to be smart.

>he has to indicate he is Big Boss by showing to the entire world hes Big Boss otherwise well never know besides the Cutscene which doesnt count
This is how you sound

>unless venom was the one who built outer heaven
But he isn't. Big Boss builds it. The timeline states as much, and it makes sense that the project Big Boss is working on that's described as "a military nation" and "the true Outer Heaven" would be the military nation Outer Heaven. Moreover, he would have no reason to work on ZL if he knew Venom was creating OH and Big Boss wanted Venom and OH to succeed. Big Boss built Outer Heaven, and Venom is in on it. It gets wrecked, and Venom dies. Big Boss goes underground again and establishes Zanzibarland as a second attempt. MGSV didn't change anything other than including a Big Boss doppelganger that dies instead of the real Big Boss getting his shit kicked around but surviving.
>i know some people believe it takes place early in the game.
That would defeat the whole purpose of Ocelot's self-hypnosis. He does it to protect the secret and the ruse. Ocelot wouldn't want it broken until the coast was clear.
>it would make more sense if he didn't hypnotize himself
But he does. He says he will, and nothing in the main game suggests otherwise.

But Venom did, what would be the point? He was only calm because the protagonist is supposed to muh calm badass n cool since Solid Snake did all that shit first.

>That's a whole bunch of them.
I'm still not convinced. You barely showed me anything and I am feeling bound to prove you wrong on every single point you just made, which I did.

>Big Boss could have simply told Venom.
No, he couldn't. Actually think. What would he have exactly told him? It would be a waste of time, especially having only the original go while the body double wastes himself in Limbo. The damage is irreversible, and Ocelot could only unhypnotize himself because his hypnosis as short term.

>Then the nuclear disarmament speech is relevant.
You completely missed the point. The meta context has nothing to do with the canon. Even then, it's relevant only to the meta. Characters may joke about canon because the meta allows them to, but I did not imply anything about the meta somehow actually impacting the canon.

>What?
Protagonists being dicks never happens within Metal Gear. Big Boss can be a dick in TPP because he's not the protagonist, he's free to be portrayed as a maniac.

>before you tried to argue that Ocelot knew Venom wanted to get brainwashed because of videogame logic?
Videogame and realistic logic can exist together in a video game without having to impact each other, retard.

>You mean like how Big Boss built ZEKE and armed it with a nuke as deterrence?
Nukes as a means of deterrence isn't bad. It's questionable, sure, but it isn't evil. It's more morally grey and antiheroic.

>But did he act out of character? Or is it in line with everything he's done?
The former. Remember that Kojima said that this is the player's ending, not any of the characters. An ending that reflects the efforts of the entire playerbase should be clear that it doesn't have anything to do with the story or any canon event.

was short term*. Fuck.

(2/2)
Also, to continue on with my point,
>So what?
If he truly accepted The Boss, he would have worn her bandana after it was extracted out of the A.I. Pod. That doesn't happen, though, leaving your point null, which means that it's bound to be wrong.

>But Venom did, what would be the point? He was only calm because the protagonist is supposed to muh calm badass n cool since Solid Snake did all that shit first.
I'm not even going to bother when you go constantly from talking from the point of view of the plot to your own speculation about gameplay.

>I'm still not convinced. You barely showed me anything and I am feeling bound to prove you wrong on every single point you just made, which I did.
So basically you just disregarded plenty of examples of Venom doing the opposite of what Big Boss does because you felt like it.
This isn't arguing.

>Protagonists being dicks never happens within Metal Gear.
Again, this is your own speculation, it almost has nothing to do, it's not even argument, it's a nothing.
Hell, one of the biggest parts of PW was building ZEKE, and I don't think building a Metal Gear is heroic in every way, the opposite in fact.

>Videogame and realistic logic can exist together in a video game without having to impact each other
But only when you want it to, it seems.

>Nukes as a means of deterrence isn't bad
It is because Big Boss just became exactly what he opposed.
And he never backed down from that.
In fact, he doubled down on it.

>The former.
Even when Venom has been shown to be a complete pacifist?

>If he truly accepted The Boss, he would have worn her bandana after it was extracted out of the A.I. Pod.
Why?

Is there something more pathetic than when brainlet MGS redditors discuss their stupid franchise made out of ripping off 80s action movies?
The plot is garbage and is written by a talentless hack who only stood out in this industry because the standards were incredibly low.
What the fuck are you doing, idiots?
Do you also discuss Marvel movies in depth?
How embarassing.

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>protagonists can't do no bad only because we control them
>examples don't count because I feel like im proving you wrong
>Venom doesn't have the bandana so he doesn't agree with The Boss

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the timeline says that big boss is commanding foxhound within the u.s. military. venom is the one actually at outer heaven. they both built it, sort of. but it makes more sense if venom was the one doing the ground work. big boss can't be in two places at once, unless he's two people. one was in the USA commanding foxhound, and the other was building up outer heaven

>That would defeat the whole purpose of Ocelot's self-hypnosis.
like i said, ocelot probably didn't hypnotize himself
>He does it to protect the secret
all he has to do is simply keep it a secret. given his appearances in all the other games, he's really good at doing that. hypnosis isn't even necessary in the first place, he just says that to assuage big boss
>He says he will
as above, he's a known liar
>and nothing in the main game suggests otherwise.
except what i already said: that ocelot constantly puts venom in danger, almost like he's trying to use him to bring threats out into the open. he wouldn't take those risks with quiet if it was the real big boss. there's also nothing that would really trigger ocelot into snapping out of it. the conversation with miller just sort of happens out of the blue

that's not the only thing though. miller himself pulls a gun on snake after he brings quiet onto the base. that's not something he would do if he thought venom was the real big boss. but if he thought ocelot's plan was going to get all of them killed, then he sure as fuck would

>Big Boss just became exactly what he opposed.
But it still isn't evil
Which is why it was allowed to be even shown being done from the protagonist's POV in the first place

>So basically you just disregarded plenty of examples of Venom doing the opposite of what Big Boss does because you felt like it.
No, because your example were bare and I still felt unconvinced because I had the evidence to prove you wrong.

>But only when you want it to, it seems.
No, this is clear fact within Metal Gear. Check this out:
>Call me Snake
>Uh, oh, sorry Vic Boss
That's the simplest example I could show you. The Boss' ending speech about there only being "one Boss, and one Snake" foreshadows the existence of Solid Snake, video game logic coexisting with realistic logic.

Here, let me reevaluate again because you apparently did not bother to read anything I said.
>Venom saw himself as a demon after killing his own men
And he was completely okay with killing Solid Snake afterwards, as Big Boss. Just imagine, Big Boss killing one of HIS own men.
>he had no problem with brainwashing Venom
Zero did it once again. Big Boss simply went along with Ocelot to avoid causing a misfit.
>He spared the child soldiers
Kaz did that. Venom was just a bystander that did nothing to avoid causing a misfit.
>Spares Quiet
Only because she was useful to the parasite plot
>Spares Huey
So?
>because he knows how dangerous it is.
And he is perfectly fine with the development of a Metal Gear in Outer Heaven afterwards. Actions matter more than words.

Your examples are all garbage and no one should take you seriously. Funny to think I just rehashed what I said about the second time, yet you also said that I completely ignored it and wanted to prove everything wrong because "I felt like it" despite that I had actual evidence.

>protagonists can't do no bad only because we control them
But that's literally the recurring theme in MGS. Nuclear deterrence isn't entirely evil, even if it makes a character contradictory to his past beliefs.
>examples don't count because I feel like im proving you wrong
I said that the user barely showed me any actual proof other than statements he/she made up on the whim. I am bound to prove him/her wrong because I had the evidence to do so, not because I felt like it.
>Venom doesn't have the bandana so he doesn't agree with The Boss
Big Boss thrown out her bandana when he rejected The Boss. You are not making any sense whatsoever. The obvious choice that once again never happens if Venom somehow accepted The Boss would be for him to wear her bandana. Once again, he never does.

>If he truly accepted The Boss, he would have worn her bandana after it was extracted out of the A.I. Pod.
he did though. he even "lovingly repaired" it. when you "research" the bandana, that's what you're doing. you're getting the bandana repaired. otherwise it would make no sense, why would you research something you already have?

Yeah Yea Forumstards really like to forget that they charged $40 for 30 minutes of gameplay
>but muh non canon 5min sideops.

>says that big boss is commanding foxhound within the u.s. military.
Yes. It also says that he establishes Outer Heaven while distinguishing between Big Boss and Big Boss's phantom. It does not say "Big Boss's phantom establishes Outer Heaven."

If your point is "it doesn't make sense for Big Boss to be able to juggle both Outer Heaven and FOXHOUND!" okay, but then how does it make anymore sense that he's working on Zanzibarland while at FOXHOUND (remember, Ocelot says that the real Big Boss is already working on his military nation during the events of MGSV, so he must have had his thumb on it during his time back at FOXHOUND too) and keeping tabs on Venom and his Outer Heaven too? It doesn't.
>all he has to do is simply keep it a secret
"Can you keep it up? It's hell of a lie. "
"It won't be a lie. I won't know his secret either."
You saying "he didn't do it because I don't like it" when the game addresses it and sets it up is stupid. There's no reason to doubt it when Ocelot is telling Big Boss himself that he will for the sake of maintaining the act.

Oh, by the way, was the first time I completely over , and I still conclude that
>You barely had any proof other than your own interpretations
>I had the evidence to prove you wrong
>I "didn't feel like it", I was bound to because I had the evidence, once again
>Everyone else keeps twisting my words because they feel like it, desiring to embellish Venom when he's a rotten egg like Big Boss, or at least a complicit accomplice.

>lovingly repaired it
Then why does it need an R&D team to make it even usable? You don't even have to unlock it, it's optional and you can ignore it. There's not even a cutscene where he's forced to wear the bandana, once again. Not canon.

Think.
>WHY WOULD YOU EVEN WASTE AN RESEARCH TEAM TO REPAIR A HANDKERCHIEF???????????????

>Naked Snake wears the bandana partway through 3 and it doesn't give him any gameplay boosts
>bandana in V reduces serious injuries unlike any other normal bandana
Stop arguing about that stupid cloth. It's not canon unlike the other bandanas. Just a gameplay item, get over it.

>It also says that he establishes Outer Heaven while distinguishing between Big Boss and Big Boss's phantom.
doesn't really matter. he can't be in two places at once. and if venom is going to play the part of the leader, the OH soldiers need to know him. otherwise people start asking questions like "how did big boss grow that goofy horn overnight?" and "since when does big boss have a prosthetic arm?"

>Ocelot says that the real Big Boss is already working on his military nation during the events of MGSV
that's true. but that's less of a headscratcher than venom learning about big boss after he's already arrived at outer heaven, which i think is what you're saying

>but then how does it make anymore sense that he's working on Zanzibarland while at FOXHOUND
zanzibarland happened later. after MG1, he had to leave foxhound. he faked his death

in regards to ocelot: riddle me this. if ocelot hypnotized himself, then how did he know what the real big boss was up to? you're saying he hypnotized himself, yet also was keeping tabs on the real big boss. that makes no sense. it's one or the other. he can't know about the real big boss while he's hypnotized

The tonal shift was such a disappointment. The Skullface we got in GZ was a great villain, he was menacing and ruthless. Then they shit the bed in the TPP and he became campy for some reason. It's wild how much better the trailers were than the actual story presented in the game.
GZ's level design was much better as well. It actually felt like a cohesive, sprawling facility and was reminiscent of earlier MGS's.

>strangelove didn't understand the significance of the bandana. it was given to snake in mgs3, she wasn't there
But she would have known that Big Boss threw it out after he rejected The Boss, yes?

Also, to prove a point with BiBo only being able to do whatever he wants when he's an NPC
>MGS3
goodhearted, disillusioned, the protagonist
>PW
morally grey, shallow at times, the protagonist, his fall, develops a nuke but with not entirely evil intentions
>GZ
morally grey, shallow at times but with a bit of edge, the protagonist, "former hero" but not doing anything literally bad yet
>TPP
absolute cunt, treats people like shit, immediately right after he wakes up, this is literally his GZ self too given the coma, NOT the protagonist.

It's so fucking obvious.

Absolutely accurate

>wanting Big Boss to be better than himself
>wanting Big Boss to be more moral than himself
>wanting Big Boss to be the literal opposite of himself
>wanting Big Boss to actually be a hero instead of the villain he's supposed to be
>wanting Big Boss to disarm nukes instead of keeping them
I shiggy diggy :^)

>doesn't really matter.
But it does. The game tells you Big Boss establishes Outer Heaven, not Big Boss's phantom. You can have a job that's centered in one country while secretly doing something in another intermittently, you realize? That was always the assumption until MGSV. Venom being someone he can rely on still stands in this case. You don't need to assume Venom built Outer Heaven.
>how did big boss grow that goofy horn
This is a weird wrinkle that stands regardless given Solid Snake has contact with both Big Bosses, too.
>zanzibarland happened later
Sure did. But if Big Boss didn't built OH and Venom did, what the fuck military nation was Big Boss working on that Ocelot mentions? You're doing a lot of handwaving to make your interpretation make any sense.

>Then why does it need an R&D team to make it even usable?
because it needs to be repaired. you're not going to use something when it's damaged. that's why it goes through the R&D team, to repair it

>You don't even have to unlock it, it's optional and you can ignore it.
pretty sure you need to retrieve the AI pod to trigger huey's departure. that allows the bandana to be repaired. the fact that venom doesn't just throw it away again is significant enough
>not forced to wear the bandana
because then you'd be forcing the player to use an item that makes the game easier

>>WHY WOULD YOU EVEN WASTE AN RESEARCH TEAM TO REPAIR A HANDKERCHIEF
exactly, it speaks volumes for how much venom cares about the boss, that he would waste all those resources on a bandana. he must have revered her

>then how did he know what the real big boss was up to?
The hypnosis was broken by that point. Probably by Big Boss's tape or Venom himself after learning the truth. My point was that it doesn't make any sense for Ocelot to break his hypnosis before Venom learns the truth, since Venom's self-image as Big Boss is exactly what Ocelot's hypnosis was designed to preserve until the threat had passed.

>pretty sure you need to retrieve the AI pod to trigger huey's departure
Which is why I said
>you can ignore it AFTER YOU EXTRACT THE AI POD
Also
>the fact that venom doesn't just throw it away again is significant enough
Why would you even be able to infer this? There's not any dialogue telling you that he cherishes it, and there's nothing in the story that gives way to the bandana.

Excluding the nuclear disarmament scene, which I still believe has nothing to do with the story at all.

>you're not going to use something when it's damaged
>description says it's repaired before you even ''''repair''''' it

>because then you'd be forcing the player to use an item that makes the game easier
That's backwards logic. If it were truly forced, then it wouldn't have made the game easier at all, just like any other bandana in the series that isn't the Infinity Bandana. Moron.

>The game tells you Big Boss establishes Outer Heaven, not Big Boss's phantom.
which it says happens in 1995, but outer heaven would take longer than that to establish. it's more likely that big boss just started overseeing things once it was complete

think of it this way: if big boss was commander of outer heaven, why would he need to send venom a tape? if they're both at outer heaven, he can just tell him in person
>You don't need to assume Venom built Outer Heaven.
you kind of do, because he receives the tape that deprograms him when he's at outer heaven
>Solid Snake has contact with both Big Bosses, too.
solid snake saw venom for a brief second, before he blasted him with rockets. not the same

>what the fuck military nation was Big Boss working on that Ocelot mentions?
i don't know, you said ocelot was hypnotized so he shouldn't know about any military nation. care to handwave that?

>Story wise, he won't be wearing
This is what Kojima said, idiots. Stop arguing about the stupid cloth, it's not canon and this is the only right evidence to prove it. From the creator himself.

None of that
>i-i-it's a gameplay item
or that
>hehehe--hehe-really wanted to waste GMP on abandana lol" bullshit

tfw months of
>$40 for a 10 minute demo
leading up to the release of phantom pain. now the only thing left is one guy invading my base each day as i grind back up my outer harem of s++ females

>Probably by Big Boss's tape
the tape that venom gets in the 90's, after outer heaven is already formed. that's what tells ocelot that big boss is working on outer heaven, after outer heaven is already complete. no shit, wow. didn't know ocelot could time travel too

>There's not any dialogue telling you that he cherishes it
it's a mouldy old bandana that needs to be repaired. why would anyone keep it, unless it had sentimental value?

>description says it's repaired before you even ''''repair''''' it
kind of like how other items also have their own descriptions, before they even exist. or are you now going to say that none of the weapons & items in mgsv are canon, just because you don't like venom having the boss' bandana?

>Kojima and Konami talk about the nuclear disarmament ending is for the players
>You guys end up confusing the whole idea of players working together towards nuclear disarmament with Venom somehow achieving nuclear disarmament
It's the player standing there, your avatar. He's not Venom or Big Boss.

Everything important to a character in Metal Gear is told at least through some bit of dialogue or action. A description of an unlockable does not count, buddy boy.
Big Boss doesn't go silently removing his bandana out of nowhere, expecting you to infer that he rejects The Boss.

>kind of like how other items also have their own descriptions, before they even exist
Fuck you. I wasn't even trying to imply that.
Main point is
>"lovingly"
Is entirely ambiguous and it could mean anything. Strangelove was the one who was with the AI Pod at the time, so she must have salvaged it and repaired it. It's the only obvious explanation, she loves The Boss.

MGS5 was a mistake

>over 20 posts over the word "lovingly"
It was "lovingly" repaired because the bandana is a delicate symbol to the Metal Gear franchise. You know, Solid Snake wears it and it's the icon of the series along with the cardboard box?

>but outer heaven would take longer than that to establish.
He would have ten years. That's plenty of time given how quickly he and Venom are able to build MSF and DD, respectively. OH is much more ambitious, but ten years is also a much longer time. Building Zanzibarland in half that time is obviously much more impressive, but it's not hard to imagine it's partially built with OH's ashes or that Big Boss had more funds stashed elsewhere. Alternatively he might've just gotten really good at attaching balloons to people and resources after doing it twice for MSF and Outer Heaven.
>it's more likely that big boss just started overseeing things
"The real Big Boss is working separately from us, to create his new nation." He was obviously working on something.
>why would he need to send Venom a tape?
He felt some respect towards him. He wanted to enlist him and Diamond Dogs in his new project. It would also act as a signal to Ocelot. Any of these or all of these.
>if they're both at outer heaven, he can just tell him in person
What? Literally, what? I'm not saying Venom is at Outer Heaven when he gets the tape. In fact I'm saying the opposite. He obviously isn't, given the game keeps going as per usual and guards remark they don't care who you are.
>solid snake saw venom for a brief second
They have a short but full conversation. He probably would have noticed.
>care to handwave that?
I brought up the content of that conversation to dispel the idea that the conversation happened early in the game before Venom knew the truth. I'm saying it doesn't make sense for Ocelot to break his hypnosis until things were safe and Venom knowing the truth didn't matter.
>venom gets in the 90s
He doesn't get it in the 90s though, obviously.

I wish TPP was Snake Eater but wider in scope

>bandana is never discussed other than very vague description
>it's obviously not canon because it that plus it has gameplay effects
You're all wasting your time.

you might as well be saying "lalalala i can't hear you" at this point
>Everything important to a character in Metal Gear is told at least through some bit of dialogue or action. A description of an unlockable does not count, buddy boy.
the bandana is important to strangelove, if not also venom. if the description states that strangelove repaired it, that goes against your idea that everything important is told through dialogue or action. repairing the bandana would be important to strangelove. your little rule is not actually a rule, you just arbitrarily made it up because you don't like thing

>I wasn't even trying to imply that.
then i don't know why you even brought it up. item descriptions are the same before and after something is developed

it might have been repaired after salvaging it from the lake. but it would also need to be repaired after sitting in the AI pod since strangelove's death. but what really doesn't make sense is, how would anyone know that strangelove repaired it? assuming she repaired it in 1979 or whenever, how would anyone know that?

Strangelove had the AI Pod with Huey before he shut her in the hatch. It's obvious that she got the bandana and repaired it before she was put in there.

Now shut your trap.

It has controller support, user

>How about actual proper mechanics like in MGS1-4, where even if a soldier knows where you are, if he doesn't call in the radio

This only happens in MGS2, and yes, I miss it.

I use a controller on PC. the increase in ease for movement control more than makes up for the loss in shooting accuracy.

Stop moving while shooting

You are 200 percent fucking right

what I mean is, using a controller makes it easier to move around and avoid detection, which is more beneficial than the shooting precision offered by keyboard and mouse controls.

OH NO
NOT ME

>I don't like Venom wearing The Boss' bandana.
>I don't like how I'm forced to keep it.
>At least I don't have to wear it.
Is this you, user? You seem to be heavily flawed in your arguments if you just wanted to say this.

>He doesn't get it in the 90s though, obviously.
the ending scene in which venom receives the tape takes place before MG1, which is set in 1995. it would have to take place shortly before then, otherwise there would be no reason for solid snake's infiltration mission to be on the other side of the tape

>I'm not saying Venom is at Outer Heaven when he gets the tape.
i just rewatched the scene. the room has the outer heaven logo in it, but only at the end. it's why i thought it took place in outer heaven. but it turns out that earlier in the scene, the diamond dogs logo is where the OH logo would be. so it just morphed into the OH logo. still, that only changes where, not when the scene took place. doesn't change him putting operation intrude N313 on the B side

>I brought up the content of that conversation to dispel the idea that the conversation happened early in the game
i don't think it makes much sense if it happens at the end of the game. ocelot wouldn't have a reason to stay at diamond dogs any longer. and the way ocelot acts throughout the game, it seems like he knows venom is expendable

so in 2019, there are posters here who cry over getting called a gayboy on xbox live. war has changed. those people were right by the way.

checked

>Nuclear disarmament ending
>requires connection to the server
>Venom is the avatar
>The avatar can choose to be a nuke hoarding and building asshole or make the world a better place by disarming nukes on the server
If I choose to be an asshole, does that mean Venom being a rotten egg is canon?

not really no

>Sahelanthropus is kept dormant because it's too destructive
>Yet is completely fine with TX-84 being developed
Venom's a bastard asshole and him being complicit with actually having and using a Metal Gear with Big Boss in Outer Heaven makes him a hypocrite no matter what. Actions are more important.
He's basically fine with any Metal Gear or destructive nuclear missile launching weapon as long as it isn't Sally. Which still makes him a dick, no exception.

Everything about your interpretation relies on that other side of the tape, but the thing is that tape doesn't actually make sense as anything other than as a self-reference, the same way the DD logo suddenly being the Outer Heaven one doesn't make any literal sense. Even if you assume time has passed *during* the cutscene literally and not just metaphorically, do you think Outer Heaven had an identical bathroom to the one on DD's motherbase? Even the tape itself doesn't work literally. If you want to take it literally, it would make much more sense for it to be Operation Intrude N312, not N313, since sending Gray Fox in was the actual start of FOXHOUND's official engagement with Outer Heaven. But N313 is a lot more significant to the audience, and also references Venom's eventual fate when he dies at Outer Heaven, much like the shift from the DD logo to Outer Heaven's does the same thing.

After the Truth mission it's still 1984 and it's still Diamond Dogs, though, and Diamond Dogs soldiers even reference the truth by proclaiming their loyalty to Venom despite his not being the real Big Boss.
>if it happens at the end of the game
It happening at the end is the only time it makes sense, given Miller frequently says things that suggest he believes you're the real Big Boss, and, again, Ocelot would be hypnotized during the game.
>it seems like he knows venom is expendable
It seemed more like he trusts Venom. But Venom isn't completely expendable anyway, since he also serves the purpose of keeping Big Boss's seat warm so to speak while Big Boss is underground working on Outer Heaven:
>Big Boss is building a nation. But... until it's complete, we support the other Big Boss. The phantom carries on his legend... his meme. That, is Big Boss's plan.

why wasn't the box lovingly repaired then? checkmate

Attached: mfw whoahoah.png (400x355, 149K)

Because cardboard boxes will always be available around the globe? More than two cardboard boxes are used within the franchise, idiot.

base building alone is more complex than the whole GZ game.

>Even if you assume time has passed *during* the cutscene literally and not just metaphorically, do you think Outer Heaven had an identical bathroom to the one on DD's motherbase?
no, i'm not saying that time passes during the cutscene. i'm saying that diamond dogs continued to exist right up until 1995
>it would make much more sense for it to be Operation Intrude N312
that would still be pretty close to solid snake's infiltration

>given Miller frequently says things that suggest he believes you're the real Big Boss
he also contradicts big boss, and when he brings quiet back he's got some men with him and they have their guns raised at both of them. he doesn't seem to respect him as much as in peace walker. he's constantly on edge and seems to hate ocelot

>It seemed more like he trusts Venom
seems like he trusts quiet just as much, despite having no reason to
>Venom isn't completely expendable
it's pretty much the only reason for the ruse, for venom to be an expendable version of big boss that they can use to take down skullface. he's not just keeping his seat warm, he's essentially a walking diversion that's meant to draw all the fire. from ground zeroes, to the hospital, and right up to the end of the game, that's his role

>More than two cardboard boxes are used within the franchise, idiot.
Kojima never said this, nor has he ever hinted at this being true. For all we know, it's the same box each game.

good story(or one that doesn't break down from the slightest scrutiny), good gameplay, good amount of playtime are not mutually exclusive
GZ abandoned the old gameplay formula in place of something that, as you can see, doesn't hold up for more than 90 minutes of gameplay.
Though I should mention, Survive did add elements to the bland open world that made traveling more meaningful.

I enjoyed PP way more than Ground Zeroes. GZ was so easy I finished it in half an hour.

>or one that doesn't break down from the slightest scrutiny

anything you'd like to share with the rest of the class?

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...

>some 15 minute map with a lot of cringefest voice acting and cutscene interruptions is better than a big playground where, after getting through the lengthy absolute embarrassment of a prologue, you can mess around with the best thing this crappy series ever had: MGSV's gameplay
yeah nah