Game has RNG so it's bad

Imagine that you're playing chess but every time you move a piece you roll a d20 and a natural 1 makes you lose instantly. Is the game more or less fun now?

Might actually be more fun

that's if you're put into an unlucky situation but not if you shoot a guy in the head and then the game decides you didn't

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Chess is such an incredibly stale and fundamentally shitty game that instantly killing both players would make it better.

why should games have a possible 100% win rate?
if they're designed to be replayed, doesn't it make more sense to focus on replayability and ignore the 0.1% of unwinnable situations as an acceptable loss?

Go back to backgammon, amerimutt

would make an interesting variation. I wonder if there's version of chess that uses dice. probably exists.

chess is actually a great example of a game that could have used slight RNG
since the game is the exact same shit every time it got minmaxed to hell and back and the competitive scene became an autistic circlejerk of memorization and extremely set in stone metas

low IQ detected

RNG in a competitive multiplayer setting is bad. It can give unfair advantages to a side and ruins the competitive aspect of the game
RNG in other games are a sign of lazy or bad design. There are good ways to use RNG, like said, if the RNG doesnt have a direct effect, it's less hated because everyone has confirmation bias, and RNG with direct effect makes people feel more robbed of their success. But RNG tends to be a 'I don't know how to make this challenging' solution.

>Imagine that you're playing chess
why should I?
couldn't I just imagine something more receptive to an RNG inclusion than what's considered an intellectual, highly strategised, 1v1 competitive game?
most games with notable RNG mechanics are singleplayer

when you get put into check, roll CHA
on a good roll, the attacking piece gets converted to the king's team

If your accuracy and planning are perfect then you should win, of course nobody is perfect so your win rate will come down to your own human error. the problem is that the game is too easy or too simple to begin with that it doesnt allow room for human error so it has to rely on rng instead. there are cases where it is good but in combat I think its almost always bad.

People want to be in control.

YOU ONLY GAVE ME ONE LIL DICE ROLL

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Everything must fit neatly into predefined little formulas so I can pigeon-hole in it my laughably autistic brain. Also I'm morbidly obese, so moving my thumbs are the closest thing I'll ever have to dexterity and by God I'm going to pretend like that means something.

The game is turn based.
What you see is a representation of an alien at point blank range. If you had a rifle and turned to see an alien 3 feet in front of you what would be your odds?

yo what's good

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Personally, I find overcoming RNG through skill and tactics to be very rewarding. More rewarding than overcoming traditional difficulty in the form of tough enemies, etc.

Take Caves of Qud for example. The game is essentially just a series of dice rolls, albeit weighted on your character's proficiency in whatever the roll is for/against. The early game can feel very dependent on luck, especially when the player is still a novice. After a few dozen early deaths, you start to learn what you need to do to avoid the situations that lead to death. Keep bleeding out? Buy a bandage from the trader on Joppa and prioritize First Aid. Getting overwhelmed by swarm-type enemies? Include a means of AOE attack in your build and prioritixe keeping your exit route clear of enemies. Keep getting shafted by Confusion, or some other mental attack? Adjust your build for more mental fortitude, or avoid areas with high level espers until you get some normality grenades.

With time, you can effectively prevent any failed dice rolls/poor RNG from having negative consequences. Having a deep knowledge of the game's mechanics allows skill to come in to play.

Yea Forums hates esports because they can only play automatic RPGs. Obviously they don't take liking to playing a skillfull game like a fighting game or an FPS, hell even a board game can get skill based. You should roll the dice, if it's under six you chop your balls off. Not so fun now, huh?

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E-sports are a fucking cancer killing good games.

>If your accuracy and planning are perfect then you should win
why though? managing forces beyond your control and accounting for variance is very rewarding in itself, even if you may eventually be put into situations where you cannot win. trying to find the most logical and likely route to success is quite thought provoking and has a lot of depth.

Usually because the implimentation sucks ass.
The rest of the time its meming and/or coping.

the most logical and likely route is also known as perfect planning. rng is artificial complexity

There's nothing wrong in RNG. Fact is, sometimes RNG is used is stuff that don't really need RNG at all.
Figure this: you're playing a game that involves classes, stats and pvp. You have a clear strategy against class X if you're favoured/disadvantaged in the match up and you play to your odds. Having those odds completely assblasted because class X randomly oneshots you thanks to a random crit is bullshit, either if you are stronger or weaker than your opponent. It completely sucked out the skill part and gave it to whoever was lucky to hit the one in N possibility of critting.

Tabletop RPGs of yore were all about dice rolls against poor odds and the occasional lucky throw.

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RNG just shouldn't exist in some game genres. I play vidya because I want to be IN control, it's not fun when I lose or win because the game decided to toss a coinflip

how is it artificial complexity?
if you lose and still made the 100% right decisions, the player should be able to take comfort in the fact that they have 100% figured out a game with potentially hundreds or thousands of variables
but what the players who are invested in these games understand is that they have not mastered every aspect and seek to increase their win rate rather than getting mad at individual losses.
the appeal is to solve the game as best a human can, not to follow a flowchart and win every time

I'm a gamer! I have skill!

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the more apt comparison would be a professional poker player

There are two types of RNG:
RNG you can react to and adjust to.
RNG that you can't react to.
Taking a crit string is bullshit.
Faust tossing out a random item isn't because both players have time to do something.

>all these noobs running a low luck life build
lol better luck on ng+ retards

>he only won because of that bullshit ace on the board. No skill. Fucking ace-shitters.

Most poker players understand the kind of dangers and risks they take on betting with an ace on the river.
Try again.

I remember the last levels of "Sound Shapes" having RNG. All it does is make it so I get through the time I have a favorable set up instead of it actually letting me become better at it.

They love to hate it
It gives them something to hate and blame any loss on even when it barely has an effect

Look at dark souls a game that is entirely skill based but you will get shitty players complain about RNG killing them.

its a way for shitters to blame a game for their lack of skill. there are few games there the RNG is so bad it makes the gameplay truly meaningless

This is why Magic: The Gathering is a much better game than Hearthstone

Magic has literally no RNG in it

>is so bad it makes the gameplay truly meaningless
Even "slightly worse" shouldn't be tolerated. It's all too often just lazily implemented.

i think RNG has little place in multiplayer competitive games, but it's a different story for different genres

except you can totally win just by doing the worst thing every time

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>mtg has no rng

card draw is random

Speedrun/Competitive autism.
It's an ezpz way to add some "bumpiness" or unexpectedness to the gameplay, even on multiple playthroughs.

card draw in hearthstone is random too so that cancels out each other so hearthstone having RNG effects pushes it over the top

>pros always complain about unskilled "donkeys" beating them
>everybody playing poker is an experienced pro now
>play donkey style
>become a billionaire

Reminder Luck is Also a Skill.

Don't you shuffle the cards?
That's like saying Blackjack isn't random

gut gud fag

i'm not disagreeing i'm just saying the statement you made isn't factual as MTG does have randomness to it you fucking retard

yes, and the disparity is between people who can consistently make money and people who win big once and never again

>Magic has literally no RNG
>but it does
>yea but the RNG in hearthstone cancels out the RNG in magic

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>countjack is random
Get a load of this ploppy

This is basically the argument over Darkest Dungeon, and it will probably be like that when the second one comes out

>people cheer and reward lottery winners
>cheer and reward raffle winners
>cheer and reward sweepstakes winners
>cheer and reward random chance gameshow winners
>cheer and reward plain casino winners (like slots and shit)
>cheer and reward gacha winners
>but if you DARE have good luck in vidya then FUCK YOU A BLOO BLOO I MAD

Lucklets. Not even once.

get a load of this idiot who doesnt know what counting cards means

it's gacha but you win

Now how about this.
Football has a shitton of RNG, because of the uncertainty behind the physics of the ball. Sure some people are better at manipulating the ball, but it's physically impossible to have complete control and agency.
Therefore, no real sport can be as ebin as a competitive video game.

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RISK MANAGEMENT IS A SKILL
RETARDS

The wind is RNG for outdoor sports.
Anything played outside is for scrubby lucktards.

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There's literally nothing wrong with nu-xcoms random numbers