I will never understand how people think Third Strike's parries are okay. It makes the whole neutral too ambiguous

>As players get better everything becomes a guess
Complete opposite

>wait for enemy to attack
>tech throw or parry and punish
only fighting game where you get rewarded for not going on the offense

The less guessing there is, the better. Stop trying to guess your way through neutral fuckboy.

I still play this game everyday at work on an emulator, don't tell capcom, I'll probably play it all my life the game is that good, animation is unparalleled.

Nah fuck you, you're the one that has to deal with my guessing game.

>Yea Forums complains about parries because MUH NEUTRAL
>Yea Forums complains about combos because MUH NEUTRAL
>v/ complains about rushdown because MUH NEUTRAL
>Yea Forums complains about guessing because MUH NEUTRAL
>Yea Forums complains about airdashers because MUH NEUTRAL
>Yea Forums complains about modern KoF or SF because MUH NEUTRAL
>Yea Forums complains about setplays because MUH NEUTRAL
What the fuck do you even want to play, Yea Forums?
Simon Says isn't a fighting game.

Attached: 1555883887579.jpg (387x368, 20K)

>It makes the whole neutral too ambiguous

Explain what you even mean.

Of all the things that you listed, only parries don't require you to win the neutral before you can force the opponent into an unfavorable situation. The OP webm is a prime example of the Makoto losing the neutral hard and winning anyway because of some epic yolo shit, the fact that jump-ins are a 50/50 in 3S as a baseline is retarded. Combos, rushdown, setplay and other general pressure aren't comparable because they require you to get in first.

>Yea Forums is one person
but for real guys, if your idea of the perfect fighting game is to remove guesswork entirely, you're basically asking to solve an exam with the exact same answers every round. it's extremely boring.

Attached: 1438305924670.png (912x720, 258K)

Not in 3S they don't.

Guess what game Yea Forums doesn't complain about?

Attached: super-smash-bros-ultimate.900x.jpg (900x506, 80K)

>asking a fighting game autist to not be autistic
this isn't a winning battle user
all critiques of players, mechanics, or design will forever be answered with git gud

Fighting games at their pure fundamental level are guessing games the same as chess or any strategy game. It's about making educated guesses (predictions) through conditioning and pattern recognition that differentiates the player. Without this, fighting games would just be all reflex and optimized combos similar to a generic fps.

Attached: Kula_stance.gif (96x210, 52K)

You have to earn your guesses by winning neutral not fucking jumping at people. This garbage ain't SF.

Parry's are a part of the neutral and understanding when and when not to use it is part of the game. I'm not sure what you consider to be "Street Fighter" because every SF game has mechanics and characters that can skip neutral except maybe Alpha 2.

>not fucking jumping at people
what kind of fucking game are you playing

Attached: 1559101695235.jpg (225x225, 9K)

bullshit.

>muh neutral

I'm convinced these people are retards

Attached: 1552766615915.jpg (3840x2160, 1.07M)

Where you can anti-air people jumping at you without having to guess.

Attached: 1558316043147.gif (382x308, 1.47M)

>do high reward options that could be punished with parries
>get mad when you get punished by parries
If you care so much about neutral then poke more so you don't get destroyed by a parry god

>It's about making educated guesses (predictions) through conditioning and pattern recognition that differentiates the player.

I'd say it varies, fighting against a tourney level O.Sagat in Super Turbo can seem like a guessing game because he fires off tiger shots like a semi automatic pistol, but there's Rock-Paper-Scissors like stuffing a jump-in with a lp.SRK or AA

Guessing games can end pretty ugly though
youtube.com/watch?v=IyWnb0o_DfQ

Attached: bcf.png (680x445, 521K)

It only becomes guessing because you understand and know everything else, so the next move is a guess of a guess repeat. It's how prediction works.

the fact you called them "degenerate" guessing games instead of just guessing games (which isn't entirely wrong) proves you're just mad someone beat your ass in whatever game you played recently

DoA6 is great. Miss the threads.

I agree, the older fighting games have some serious jank. I mean there's not much you can do against a Vega vortex you just have to hold a direction and hope for the best.

Nobody is as retarded as you, you hapless degenerate avatarfag

Definitely not this degenerate shit game.

Fuck the neutral, meme combos and 40% damage fierce slashes for days

>Fuck the neutral, meme combos and 40% damage fierce slashes for days

Attached: 2mdron.jpg (560x746, 54K)

its because its the easiest game.

I'd wager most of Yea Forums can't do an SRK motion

>SRK
Cute!

Attached: Unt).png (96x30, 3K)

the problem is the lack of balance or a proper KI style combo breaker or Escape mechanism that allows you the break an attack and depending on the potency level, counterstun.

and yes SF3 is horribly unbalanced, nobody should deny that, but the biggest problem on the modern FGC is the extreme apologistic cultish nature of, DONT FIX IT, ADAPT!.

what a bunch of collectivist trite, hey! what is the game is legit bad!?

>charge
>hard
They are the most braindead characters.

The charge isn't the hard part of that input brainlet kun. You're the one who thinks SRK is hard

Stop crying and git gud

It's a charge move, literally nothing is hard about it you coon.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM AND YOU ARE PART OF IT

high level makoto is so fun to watch

Stop shitposting, it's a motion input

Attached: guilesuper.webm (853x480, 2.85M)

What is reversal frame?

>muh neutral
Scrubs always talk a little about neutral to make themselves appear informed and like their opinions are valid

It's literally not.

You do realize you can bait parries, right? Its not an ambiguous neutral, its a neutral where you are aware that defense is equal to offense and must be aware at all times.

Makato lost neutral and went to 40% because of it, something any good player can come back from, and then read an obvious jump in to a brain dead combo which was punished in the biggest way possible, to win one of THREE (3) rounds. Ryu should have started baiting instead of going full unga, and even in unga fighters like guilty gear you still can’t go all in every single time. You people are bad at fighting games because instead of complaining about what “shouldn’t” be allowed you should be LEARNING HOW THE GAME WORKS. A game doesn’t suck just because you suck at it. If you don’t want to get parried STAY UNPREDICTABLE

Dude you can see the motion in that clip, it's required for the super

By your retarded definition there are no such thing as a charge move since a motion is involved in every one of them.

Or I could just not play Third Strike because I hate the system it's based around. Someone jumps, you anti-air. Someone is throwing fireballs you should be forced to jump, invuln through or stuff with a far normal and shouldn't just get to walk through. I prefer a more straightforward game.

>bro just do random shit yo
3s players LMOA

So that charge move requires more motion than an SRK but an SRK is less braindead because it doesn't start with a charge? Profound logic user.

t.brainlets

Never said anything about DPs my dude. Both are easy.

Then what makes charge characters braindead if we both know inputs aren't the difficulty of fighting games? Any execution barrier can be grinded out, even autistic 1f FADC shit. Claiming a character is braindead because of their input method is pure shitposting

>he thinks being unpredictable means doing random shit

This is why you’re bad.

What's a neutral

Stop complaining. Don’t cry about games you know you aren’t skilled enough to play. Accept how the game works. That’s the only way you’ll actually win.

Superior normals.

It’s the point of the game where both players have full control of their character, and neither has an advantage. Neutral ends when someone gets hit, knocked down, or blocks, and starts again once you’re opponent has backed off or you’ve backed off from them

Actually the only way to win in this game is either to chimp out or guess right according to this thread. What a pile of casual shit.

>Don’t cry about games you know you aren’t skilled enough to play
I am not interested in the game. 0%. If I cared enough I could play it nonstop until I became a god at it but it's not fun to me. It's you who can't comprehend that

you going to post one

>the problem is the lack of balance or a proper KI style combo breaker or Escape mechanism that allows you the break an attack and depending on the potency level, counterstun.

Most new fighters have that though, if you're talking about 3S then yeah it's pretty old-fashioned but it's a product on it's era

>and yes SF3 is horribly unbalanced, nobody should deny that, but the biggest problem on the modern FGC is the extreme apologistic cultish nature of, DONT FIX IT, ADAPT!

That attitude isn't modern though, it's a remnant of the arcade era where you had to stay on your toes and make quick decisions otherwise you got bodied and your turn was up

Think of when a boxing match starts and both opponents are trying to get a read on each other first before they start swinging/dodging

Dude you can't be serious. Charge characters are almost always low-mid tier for a reason, shotos get godly fireballs and invincible reversals AND normals that do everything charge characters can do. The exception to this is SFV where fireballs suck and shoto normals are stubby garbage but even in a game like that look at how Guile has all of two moves which are positive at all

Attached: wnvc5DS.png (1324x992, 464K)

>brings up SFV as an example
>what is Bison
Good job fart commander, you owned yourself.

>the exception is actually the rule
What did he mean by this? Did you start this whole argument because you're seething at SFV Bison?

>I have never played any game before 2000

Isn't the entire fucking point of fighting games guessing though? I thought the idea of fighters was that beyond execution, they're purely games about predicting or reading the opponent and punishing that predictability.

You guess what the opponent will do based on their situation, previous actions and available resources and act accordingly.

>not interested in a classic style fighting game
>insist it sucks when you know nothing about it

You have shit taste and you know it, go back to SFV until you’ve mastered the basics. 3s is for players who were already bored of the basics by the time it came out, and now want to be rewarded on making reads instead of formulaic play.

But the top tiers in ST sans Boxer are all shotos

git gud

Attached: ReallyNow.jpg (1400x1800, 806K)

>what is Chun
If you think Guile's normals are shit because they aren't plus you don't know shit about fighting games.

>Do effectively a raw dp
>lose the match
This is how it should be

Super Turbo doesn't mean dick. It wasn't the only SF let alone 2D fighter in the 90s.

Guessing is only fun if the game isn't a rushdown fest. There'e more to fighters than guessing and execution, even through they're a major part of it.

That's why SF3 is so defensive haha, nevermind that I haven't seen a time over in years and that Chun-Li and remy (and occasionally akuma) are the only remotely turtly characters

This guy isn't great because of his normals. He's got some good pokes but everyone knows Claw is dangerous because of his retarded one-trick vortex shit that hasn't won a combo breaker or norcal tournament in a decade

>guy is doing constant predictable safe pressure
>have to deal with it and wait your turn
>oh wait it's 3rd strike so I'll just get a full combo

It's the greatest feeling. I don't care if it leads to stupid shit, I want this feeling to come back.

Attached: 2342342.jpg (1920x1080, 312K)

Did that Makoto basically "touch of death" just now?

Attached: Dhalsim.png (559x483, 119K)

Attached: Sure.png (202x77, 2K)

Graphics + Daigo hype is the only reason you play it. It's become a meme game. Doesn't even top KoF 98 and 2002 on fightcade numbers.

>makoto read absolutely the highest number of parries Ryu could reasonably force in that situation
>deliberately didn't commit until the commitment was guaranteed
>correctly inputted all of those parries at the right times
Literally one of the cleanest examples of both execution and character mastery allowing a player to win in any fighting game clip I've seen
If Vanao didn't do the uppercut his entire anti air was safe and it was still forcing like 4 parries so the shoryuken was basically a mistake in that sequence, he put it all on the line when he really didn't have to.

Of course makoto's touch of stun is pretty stupid, even 3s players agree to that, but even with it she's just strong and not really busted (unless you play a character she beats like Q. Ryu vs Makoto is probably about 5-5)

The top tier in ST are literally boss characters and Dhalsim

Reading comprehension. I said he has some good pokes but you're really really reaching trying to apply shit like that to all charge characters as if non-charge characters are some persecuted class of stubby normalets

>basically
more like literally

off the walls are ridiculously powerful in SF2 but to be honest Claw can win with only his huge throw range, or only spaced slides, or only badgering with pokes, not to mention he has a good invincible anti air. He's a super well-rounded character in every sense which is why he's commonly said to have zero bad matchups

it forces you to be unpredictable, which is the core essence of the fighting genre

>someone jumps
>you die because you anti-aired
It's not a real SF game.

>play multiplayer game
>doesn't want 'guessing' part of the meta and only wants to minimize risk, creating a meta game of turtling and no risks being taken
Have fun with your boring game.

thats crack addict thinking user. you only being shit because you don't feel like being good is the purest of delusions

Attached: FeelFreeToStopAnytime.png (117x68, 2K)

>get baited
>lose
>blame the game

Attached: really.jpg (372x334, 72K)

Go see a doctor you unbelievable loser.

>Claw
I always forget how autistic fighting game fans are until I stumble into one of these threads.
Inb4 the Japanase naming was different. It doesn't matter, calling Vega "Claw" is incredibly autistic.

Touch of Death combos need to come back to the spotlight, you fucked up you get smashed for 30 seconds while letting your opponent flex their muscle memory, it may be pretty bad getting it done to you
but doing it yourself is the absolute greatest feeling

>popularity as a proxy for quality
guess we should all shut up and play Pokemon then

Attached: pokemon no ken.jpg (351x480, 53K)

I do not like Third Strike. I would not like Third Strike even if I was good at it. I do not want to play or be good at the game at any level. Can you really not believe that? Because that's delusional, genuine fanboy delusion.

But Vega is the dictator guy, Don't you mean Balrog?

how do you AA someone who's intent is baiting and countering out your AA

Attached: 1517842033690.jpg (1280x776, 314K)

yes it is, it has street fighter in the name. It's just different in that anti airs aren't hard counters to jumps but rather just beat air attacks yet lose to air parries. As I said in the post you quoted the guy on the ground doesn't HAVE to enter into the mixup at all, and there's virtually no risk to anti airing with a spaced low or doing a block w/ delayed tech or even just blocking since most throws aren't too strong in 3s.
In fact, as I said, that j. MK, st. HP, EX fireball was all safe, and Makoto could only avoid damage by doing the hyper specific parry that he did. It's completely possible to put together a strong anti air without making yourself unsafe to parries.
People who don't play 3s act like antiairing is this super bullshit scenario that completely favors the jumper because all they do is try to DP every jump then get mad that it doesn't work.
Being able to punish something you're anticipating is a GOOD feature that parries provide and forces a more dynamic and thoughtful offense where flowchart play really doesn't work.

>unironically arguing you should be able to jump around freely because parries are hype ULLLLLL
Go play anime shit, fuckboy.

I already inb4'd this argument. Can't we just agree that the English language version of the game was the definitive version. Don't even think about trying to pretend you're from Japan or something because we both know that isn't true.

>I need formulas to follow or my whole game collapses

Fixed

ITT: Street Fighter II Turboautist
Gets assblasted because he can't get gud at parrying

block the potential air normal and throw them or hit them low as they land. People act like air parries have zero commitment but in order to go for an air parry you have to empty jump and be tapping forward as you get close.

Attached: Ken_crstrng3.png (110x65, 1K)

By not playing shit games where anti-airing is a guess.

With two bars of meter, yeah. It’s a character strength, but it means you have to hold off from ex moves, and it won’t happen in the first round.

The japanese names make more sense, M.Bison for the Boxer, Balrog for the Claw and Vega for the Dictator.
They all fit way better, especially Vega, sounds way cooler than Bison to be honest

Why is this argument ALWAYS
>it's busted that they can parry my shoryukens
without ever bringing up that
>you can now parry their shoryukens
or
>you can parry their jumping normals

there are several layers of mindgames and counters to jumping in SF3, you are just too shallow of a thinker

youtube.com/watch?v=KAUP4DC2MzM

Block the air normal and punish with something sturdy, if they empty jump it's basically your turn so you can go for your stuff

because pure honorabu SF2 veterans want to pretend parries are not in the game and only use manly offensive moves. basically the equivalent of fox only final destination no item players in smash

Attached: shoryuken.jpg (984x1496, 741K)

>haha bro just guess right
If you go up in the air you should get fucked for it every time and then eat the mixup.

You may or may not be referring to me but I know from this thread alone I'm not the only one who doesn't like 3S parries. I'm not even gonna pretend I'm OG, I only got into fighting games in recent years but ST speaks to me much more than 3S

>Guessing is only fun if the game isn't a rushdown fest
thats completely arbitrary and retarded though, guessing and getting good reads is always fun

Why do you think that?

you should be able to jump around freely to dictate turns, it's way better to parry an air normal and start your offense rather than hitting them with the tip of a light DP and going back to neutral

>The less guessing there is, the better.
nah, fuck you and your shit where everything is an option select, try to actually play your oponent scrub

if they throw out an air normal, great, you either blocked the jump in or got your AA, if they empty jump with the intent of parrying AA and land normal you're still going to go in to neutral scenario. so basically it's all moot.

Attached: 1481306484452.png (382x417, 325K)

Parrying can be baited, and you can put people who are parry-happy into a disadvantageous state. You also can't simply react to every possible move with the correct parry, so there's still basic mixups.

In the case of jump-ins, parrying vs. not parrying is an option for both the attacker and defender; it simply adds another element to think about, with its own advantages and disadvantages.

Parry OS' are too often a good choice and meaties are a bit weak, though. But only a bit.

Turning every jump in into a huge risk makes them totally suboptimal to use, reducing the game to a grounded turtle fest. That was the reason parries we’re introduced. Watch a SFIV match. Look at how much back and forth shuffling or how FEW risks are taken all game. Zangief Is practically unplayable in most matchups. It’s fucking boring, because it’s a tired formula. That is why parries were introduced. If you can’t understand that, it’s because you haven’t played enough street fighter with good opponents

>there should be no options or strategy at all if you dare press the up button
yeah ok bro

>4 active frames
>7 frames of recovery
>doesn't hit low pokes
Yeah good luck with that.

Attached: HondaJab.png (149x91, 3K)

it isn't guessing, its learning your opponent's tendencies and anticipating them, which is literally all fighting games are about

Mike Bison for a boxer clearly makes more sense, but Vega suits a flowery, prancing faggot far more than balrog. If anything, dictator should be balrog, claw Vega and boxer Bison.

And thats bad why?

Jumps should be earned by making your opponent focus on the ground.

because nobody is going to indulge your stupid house rules, so go play SF2 if you think its so much better

Risk vs reward and it also punishes repetitive play.

But it is better balance wise, not even an opinion.

regardless of the fact that air parry inputs only last 4 frames so regardless of how good your air parries are, variable anti air timings will create a mixup on where the parry window is...
and regardless of the fact that parrying multi hit vs single hit anti airs is a mixup (e.g. air parrying twice to parry fierce into DP will prevent you from punishing fierce into nothing)...
Forcing the opponent to block low and do a defensive tech as soon as they land significantly inhibits their ability to get something meaningful out of their parry attempt, in fact it's likely they'll land into the low and eat it or get thrown while trying to be ready for a deep shoryuken parry or reacting to an AA normal parry with an air normal

If you think jump in parry is so powerful you should try actually playing 3s and spamming it and see how far it gets you. It's very reliant on your opponent actually doing what you want them to do, which is something you ultimately don't have much control over.

so why are you talking about sf3? you are proving that your opinion is meaningless

it's too late to start actually analyzing moves now, you're the one who posted hitboxes like they're the end-all. This one is great all around btw

Attached: Sagat_stfarfrc3.png (172x111, 2K)

The grounded player is still at an advantage in 3s compared to an airborne opponent, it's just not an outright counter.
Both players for the most part have access to all their offensive and defensive options, except the airborne guy can't fall back on blocking.
People jump mostly because it forces an interaction/mixup in 3s. Yeah a well timed jump can punish certain things but overall the REWARD for jumping in 3s is less too because there aren't that many attacks that are punished by jumps, ground fireballs aren't super common for example.

there should not be an option that always works even if your opponent sees it coming, thats just bad design

Because SF3 has a lot of other balancing issues that Daigo Parry worshipers will overlook because parries look cool

pic very much related.

Attached: Wall.png (800x1156, 679K)

What the actual fuck am I reading?

air throw if you got one.
chun li b.hp into lighting legs.

>N.Sagat
sure if you like using a straight up worse character.

SF3 characters can tech air throws even if they don't have one.
Chun li can't actually mash her lightning legs infinitely and being able to do b+HP into legs at all requires you to have pre-buffered some legs since it's not really possible to hit the same kick five times by the cancel window of b+HP, you literally have to be pushing the button on and off every frame

that last DP from Ryu was a total mistake. If you're gonna talk about how parries affect the neutral, maybe post a clip of a parry actually affecting the neutral.

youtube.com/watch?v=yuIIHSY6zzI literally this is the reason parries were added, and fireball dominance in SF2 in general.
I actually agree with here, it's ridiculous that Cammy can know exactly what's coming but be unable to prevent it.

Pretty sure the hitboxes are the same, that's not what separates N. Sagat and O. Sagat

Cammy is MADE for bullying and this video should be used to shill ST if anything.

Plus, she only needs to get in once.

before...?

How dare you.

I'd like to get into cammy once haha

go away ST Revival.

before she gets fucking KO'd anyway lol Chen BTFO

>the problem is the lack of balance or a proper KI style combo breaker or Escape mechanism
you know that ki combo breaker is total trash that get really abused and made ki1 and 2 boring.

something better is GGXX burst system, but still . what you're looking for is
"git gud and learn to block" or/and anti-infinite system like the one skulgirls have.
but still scrubs complain because they mash buttons to escape from combos so they get into combo reset and obvious baits.