Do people still play arena shooters in 2019?

If people still play Doom wads, i assume so

Conveniences like the steam workshop for maps/mods are nice, reflex arena has an in-game map editor so that's cool. But other than that not much, and netcode somehow feels worse on modern shooters than old ones. I mean just look at quake champions vs q3/ql, it's a straight up downgrade in every possible way but graphical

I play bot matches in UT since the only humans that still play are G*rmans

Some Americans and Spicbros still play it too, especially in the seige servers.

>game needs to be advertised
people who want to play games of certain genre actually go look for them.
Anyone who comes because of advertising will try it out and then go back to flavor of the month that had bigger budget for marketing than for development
I personally am a big fan of FPS/RTS genre, which consists of almost dead games, and regular community members of those games came because they sought the game out, not because game was advertised to them.

Quake champions is shit because it was made by lowest bidder slavs because bethesda was too cheap to do it properly. Also it has no custom servers, no mod support and stupid unlock, lootbox garbage. etc. etc.

This is why arena shooters are dead, because none of them have improved on Q3TA.

>I personally am a big fan of FPS/RTS genre, which consists of almost dead games, and regular community members of those games came because they sought the game out, not because game was advertised to them.
All the big RTS and FPS games had a lot of advertisement back when they came out.

Getting one-shotted at full health in an afps always feels like bullshit, everything is happening so fast you need to have a chance to react. The whole "whoever sees the other guy first wins" shit can stay in military shooters where it belongs

Even in death, he's still right.

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>tried to get into nuQuake
>its utter trash

>Ut4 is dead

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Agreed- but even when a game does improve on Q3 it goes nowhere. Reflex was basically Q3 cpma plus nice modern features and it died just like the rest

Hi, I'm here to be DOA arena shooters

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i am so glad this retarded nigger is dead

Who the fuck thought eggbots was a good idea? What an awful aesthetic

its because every fucking arena shooter has to be a 100% exact clone of quake live or arenafags will have an autistic shitfit. they cant accept any type of change at all, and that's why the genre is dead.

kek this game looked like overwatch

There's that one recently announced that's got portal guns. I think that might do decently.

I'm not sure I should listen to a man too retarded to understand the mood system in long live the queen.

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Arena shooters are dead. They were a product of their time.

If we had the computing power to make battle royale games in the 90s then we would have done so.

would you rather chinese cartoon girls or gruff army men?

>get cancer and die

TF2 anyone?

I stopped playing TF2 after they introduced trading and crafting and all that spurious bullshit

Maybe actual waifus is what we need to revive the genre

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I'm part of a small community that plays Overload and Descent if that counts

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sell me on the games i kinda want to pick them up from the gog sale going on right now

They're six degrees of freedom shooters. Theres no up or down, so the maps are interesting. The Descent games are pretty old and dont handle mouse inputs well without a lot of tweaking, as they're meant to be played with a joystick. That said, pretty much everyone who plays MP competitively uses a mouse and keyboard so getting it working is certainly possible. Overload is a modern spiritual successor that's much more accessible and using a mouse is easy. It's got a level editor and an active discord where people arrange MP games. I reccomend joining the Overload discord even if you only play Descent since theres a lot of crossover. Basically the games are about tight maneuvering in 3d space in usually cramped conditions. It makes you think in a different way.

This guy has lots of competitive MP broadcasts for both Overload and Descent m.twitch.tv/roncli

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Quack champions is good, fight me.

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It's not bullshit, he's literally right.

>HURR DURR I NEED A COMPANY TO MARKET THIS GAME TO ME BEFORE I PLAY IT
What an absolutely moronic "argument".

Some moron over on Halo General the other day tried to claim that Halo was an arena shooter, and that's why it shouldn't have things like sprint.

I didn't believe such idiocy was possible.

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>like nuquake's speed but hate the hero shit and armor classes
>like UT4lpha's weapons and maps but I wanna go fast
If they standardized hitboxes and fucked off with the weight class system in champions it'd be a massive improvement, they'd have to redesign the shit outta clutch though.

Halo has some split identity thing going on, but for me it was largely a tactical shooter multiplayer wise with small arena elements, mostly weapon and position control. You can have sprint, Titan Fall gets by just fine.

play UT2004 with mods.

No. They are boring AF to git gud at and TB was spot on in No. It is utter shit with terrible netcode, shorter friendly champs with bad balance, and no content. I'm glad /arena/ died when it turned into retarded boomers forcing memes like your pic and as a friend simulator

no

oh yeah because an is-the-player-inside-a-cylinder check on a 64-client server is so hard

What's that? I recognize the ammo model from xreal.

>power ups
>default load-out is shit and have to search for better weapons
>health pickups
I mean if UT04 ended up ripping it off that sounds close enough to arena shooter to me

on a tiny map maybe

checking whether a player is inside a ring is the same calculation regardless of map size

i mean, look at CS:GO danger zone. that's running on an engine from 2007 that's still based on quake source code. The map is pushing the engine to the absolute limits and it's still a fraction the size of fortnite and PUBG and limited to 18 players.

that's because it's a bsp renderer

it's not as if chunked rendering is new

I'm sure games like Quake 3 and UT games have people that still play them, but there are new titles like that game that's a hybrid between arena shooters and Portal that looks really interesting and I can't wait for it to come out.

I have 10 fps in this shitty mode on my toaster.

>like that game that's a hybrid between arena shooters and Portal
You mean Splitgate? Thats already out and its actually Halo 4 except with the very worst and most bland maps from UT and a portal gun

Its out already, bit of warning its made by guys who were more into halo. TTK is a bit fast too but custom games make for good fun

He's 100% right in most regards. Xonotic was probably the easiest fukken arena shooter to get into, especially since they made bunnyhopping just "Hold Space = Go Fast." UT4 was pretty much feature complete for the longest time, but it needed vastly better maps from the community, but that's something that shouldn't have been a problem for friggin Unreal Tounrament of all series. Toxxic was shit though, and Quake Live had a completely ass way of getting the game going, so it's understandable why those fell through.

In any case, it's BS having to schedule out when "peak hours" are for games like Xonotic and UT99 just to find basic fukken deathmatch lobbies with more than 4 people playing, when all the while people are bitching about not getting enough "old school shooters." Everyone keeps whining about "shitty AAA modern multiplayer games wrapped in oppressive DRM and playable only through matchmaking" while Warsow sits unplayed in their GOG libraries.

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It is? Damn, I'm out of the loop when it comes to new stuff. The portal mechanic looks really fun to play around with so I'll have to check it out come summer.

The portal mechanic is super cool but the game itself feels like some bizarre Halo/CoD amalgamation and it feels at odds with itself

Those are the only things the game has in common with an arena shooter. Health pickups stopped being a thing after the first game anyway.

I just thought it was stupid because it's nothing like things like Quake or Unreal Tournament. It doesn't have that same fast-paced gameplay, the same crazy weapons like rocket launchers as standard (obviously there are rocket launchers but they're rare - you don't have everybody starting with a rocket launcher), etc. And grenades and melee make things pretty different.

So yeah I agree that it's more of a tactical shooter. And yes I also think sprint is fine in Halo, personally.

I never played UT2004 but I did play Unreal Championship on the Xbox, which was pretty awesome. But it's very different from Halo.

Halo is not an arena shooter. It doesn't have the same fast-paced gameplay, the same zany weapons, the same hardcore / metal music / gore aesthetic. It's a much more realistic game, although yes it is sci-fi as well, but the combat is more realistic than arena shooters.

you could run mutators in Halo just like in UT and change pretty much everything you described to fit in better with other Arena shooters

Yeah, there's literally nothing else to play.

Halo is an arena shooter tho.

Just a slow one

It's not.

It's not an arena shooter.

It's literally console UT with a floatier jump

Captain King jumps like hes fucking Simon Belmont, even has the same fatality rate

Both of those games differ in the way they do things.

This. Take UT, make it 5x slower, remove dodging, add shields, add autoaim, you got halo. It was the best compromise to make an arena shooter work on a controller

Arena shooters don't have weapon limits.

Don't forget add reloading, remove armor, make melee and grenades their own dedicated buttons, and make headshots an instakill always at no shields.

The technology did not exist 20 years ago for an online shooter with a chunked map and dozens of players. Home PCs wouldn't have handled it and the infrastructure and server power wasn't there.

I don't know what a mutator is.

No, no it isn't. Firstly it has a regenerating shield, secondly it's much slower and doesn't have you bouncing around, third it has more realistic weapons, fourth it has vehicles and some of the maps are pretty huge. Also do arena shooter weapons even have reloading? I don't think they do. And I don't think they have a two weapon limit either.

I would say that Halo is much more similar to GoldenEye 007 to the PC arena shooters. Not just because it's a console game, but also because it has a more measured and realistic style of play. And obviously the story-driven campaign is a big element of both; I've not played Quake's single-player but it looks pretty barebones. And Unreal Championship, which I had for the Xbox, had a single player mode which was exactly the same as the multiplayer mode, but against bots. It was still pretty fun but it certainly wasn't the expansive, narrative-driven campaign found in Halo games, with unique (and usually linear) mission levels.

So like you say, it's not an arena shooter. Unreal Championship was an arena shooter on the Xbox. Halo wasn't.

Yes. Halo is unique. It borrows elements from many different FPS subgenres while not being able to wholly identify as any of them.

Yeah I agree. Which is why I think it is stupid to put it in the same box as Quake and UT when it really isn't the same as them at all.

yea i play quake champions. it's fun :)

That sort of myth has been going around for a long time, but I blame Halo 5 for calling itself an arena shooter in its marketing materials.

>The technology did not exist 20 years ago for an online shooter with a chunked map
shut up, retard. cutting the world into equal sized chunks and then testing the viewing frustum against them is one of the earliest rendering techniques, and it's highly efficient for outdoor maps. source and id tech games struggle with big outdoor maps because their PVS determination algorithm relies on the map being a bunch of interior spaces divided by walls. if they're rendering an outdoor map they end up being unable to trivially cull anything, no matter how distant and hidden.

>dozens of players
number of players is another non-issue because you don't send any packet updates for entities that are not in the client's vicinity and you don't render players that aren't potentially visible. having LOTS of players in an FPS server is nothing new.

More like Deadbotical.

also battle royale (the book) was published in 1999. battle royale games weren't popular in the 90s because battle royale wasn't in popular culture at all. nothing to do with "not having the technology".

So how is little johnny going to host a 50 player match of this on his P233 with 16MB RAM and a 33.6k internet connection? Oh, we're going to put lots of dedicated servers in a datacenter are we?

>I dont know what a mutator is
do you even UT bro? I refuse to believe the HEUG UT game didnt have them

>that dude who's been waiting for an Arena FPS "revival" since 2011 and maybe played Reflex once
Deader than RTS.

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Play quake champions.

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Some people play Quake Champions. I know it's a meme game famous for low player count, but people who give it a try usually end up enjoying it a lot. Well, at least those who get past five minute long loading screen.

dead game

If every person who said it's a dead game started playing it, QC would be really popular.

>runs like ass
>10 minute load times
>hero abilities and different stats
no
if they add a classic mode that disables abilities and different character stats, i might give it a go again

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I would probably start playing it too in that case, but they wont so its a dead game and I already lost enough of my life playing games nobody else plays

Still the most active arena shooter.

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Ah did it? That's interesting. Previous Halo games never did.

I don't think I ever played UT on PC. I did play Unreal Championship on Xbox though, which apparently is very similar to UT 2003.

>RTS
Why don't they make more games like Red Alert 2 and Command and Conquer Generals? Sucks man.

Because C&C3 was better then either

Im pretty sure 03 had mutators in it. They are the best part of the series
>4x game speed
>quad jumps
>super instagib
>big head
Pretty sure Halo had a similar system but I havent played one of the console versions in more than a decade so I dont remember which ones had which

Because everything has to be e-sports now. RA2 and Generals were popular because they had a solid single player campaign and skirmishes with AI so they could be enjoyed by people without autism. Q3 and UT also had a single player campaign and bots good enough that most people didn't need to play online to have fun with the game. It's what modern arena shooters actually need to bring back a large enough audience to make casual matches possible.

You could have something like Quake Champions with a single player mode that is structured like a fighting game. Select a character who has some motivation for entering a deathmatch tournament, fight your way up a ladder of increasingly difficult matches, fight an end boss, watch an ending cut scene for that character, new character unlocks, play the whole thing again.

i actually enjoyed playing it but the matchmaking system is so bad it actually killed my enthusiasm for the entire game

Never played it. I guess I preferred the more realistic setting of Red Alert and Generals.

I don't remember any of those things from Unreal Championship.

And no, Halo never really had anything like that - the only two "power ups" I guess would be overshield (giving you 3x your shield) and active camouflage (invisibility).

Halo 4 added other power ups: damage boost and speed boost. Also there were armour abilities introduced in Reach (jetpack, armour lock, sprint, hologram, etc.), which were expanded on in 4, and 4 also added "tactical packages" and "support upgrades". Which I guess were like Call of Duty style upgrades. But they didn't give you things like "4x game speed" (do you mean your running speed as a player?) or "quad jumps" or "big head". Although the speed boost power up did increase your walking speed, to maybe twice the speed of normal.

RTS is still popular in esports though. Starcraft II is of course famously popular. League of Legends and DOTA 2, while considered MOBAs rather than RTS games, are still pretty similar to RTS, from what I understand.

I think bringing back Red Alert or Generals (I think I'd rather see Generals actually, even though I spent way more time playing RA2, but Generals is more realistic) could fit pretty well into a modern context, especially since military games are still very popular (COD, Rainbow Six Siege, etc.).

But I guess EA will only make a game if they think there is definitely going to be loads of money in it. And while another Generals could well be good, it might not be a surefire hit. I guess a lot of casual players just don't care about RTS games anymore. I played Red Alert 2 on my laptop as a kid because it was basically the only game my computer was capable of running. These days, most people (whether on console or PC) have the horsepower for immersive FPS games, so they'll probably gravitate towards that instead.

>while considered MOBAs rather than RTS games, are still pretty similar to RTS, from what I understand
The only similarity is the isometric view.

Ah okay. Then I'm an idiot. Really don't know much about those games to be honest. Still, Starcraft II is popular in esports and that IS an RTS game... right? Wikipedia says it is.

>Toxxic
Shittier version of UT3
>Xonotic
Can't remember this one
>Reflex
>UT4
Never going to get out of alpha
>Warsow
Just quake 3 arena with dumb skins
>Quake Live
Was good and should have been successful but one of the most Mishandled monetization schemes drove everyone away.

If nobody knows about the game how the fuck is anyone not in the community going to know it's there to be played?

>It is? Damn, I'm out of the loop when it comes to new stuff.
Case in point, how was this guy supposed to know this game was there if it wasn't properly advertised?

Starcraft is more or less only held up by Korea and Blizzard dumping money into it. Same with Overwatch league. If it wasn't for Broodwars becoming a national sport there it would be dead as shit.

Reflex had a full release. Keep making excuses for a dead genre which people won't even play the classics like tons still play old cs and cod games

There are literally 5 dudes playing CoD2 on public servers right now

I do, but most people don't.
Reflex is great, fuck off. I played some Warsow earlier today. Both much better than Quake "buy a battle pass to unlock daily and weekly quests to grind!" Champions

I played the fucking game. You know who didn't?
All the fucking normalfag shitter who took one look at it when I showed it too them and told me to keep the early access shit to myself. Those people are the ones that matter, because they make up the bulk of player pools.

UT4 is prealpha, not alpha.
PRE-alpha. And development has been ceased for 2 years as the devs were pulled off to work on fortnite (the biggest game inthe world)
Warsow is not Q3A, it has the UT dodge, CPMA physics, better smaller tighter maps and faster gameplay, plays completely different.
It's ToxiKK not Toxikk. And it plays more like UT2K4, just looks like UT3.
UT2K4 exists, as does Q3Team Arena.
Descent/Overload/Forsaken still play like arena shooters in multiplayer, just with 6DoF. Which is great, I've had shit tons of fun in descent 3 mercenary CTF games.
In its very basic definition it kind of sadly is, kind of, but not quite...not nearly as complex.
Splitgate is also shit, and it's also basically Gaylo.
And already dead.
Xonotic is actually pretty hard. It has a shit ton of weapons and they all have secondary fires that a default player has no fucking idea how to use properly. Meanwhile Quake is more simple with only 3 weapons that matter at short/medium/long range. Even UT has more 'versatile' aka confusing weaponry where multiple weapons work at mid/long range, and short range can be great if you aim well with a flak cannon, else you can still just use RL as if it's quake.
This is true but somehow Halo5 actually feels more like UT than UT does now.
This is why I hate Halo
QC has not gotten better in 2+ years. Most of the original complaints are still applicable. I think somehow the game runs and feels WORSE over time.
based cube2 poster
If you didn't have to wait 10 minutes to play a game for 2 minutes and see 2 minutes of shitty post-game """stats""" before getting kicked out back to a main menu to re-enter matchmaking, I would probably put up with it, but right now, Quake Live and Reflex are much more palatable. I enjoy CPMA more sadly.

I never though of it as one... but I guess it kind of is... start with same gear, find better guns, find powerups. Mutiple game modes... yeah its kinda touching on some Arena Styled gameplay except much slower paced.

MOBAs are not RTS games. "From what I understand" - you know nothing, """moba""" games are like an RTS game with only 1 unit and 4 abilities, one of which you can only use once every couple minutes. It's RTS for people who can't manage armies. If anything you could argue that they're RTT but there are no tactics or strategy that you control other than asking other players to back you up. In an RTT you'd control all 5 heroes, in an RTS you'd control all the minions in the lanes too and decide what gets built and sent where, for scale.

I'm really glad I unlocked most of the champs before they fucked the progression system up. MM times are ass though, least UT4 has the benefit of attracting curious fortnite players to keep the population afloat.

I feel like an arena shooter requires skill based movement to be a real arena shooter
quake has strafejumping/circlejumping
ut has dodge/dodge+jump/rampjump/elevatorjumping
both have rocket jumping / nade jumping
halo has nothing on this scale

i'd argue JKA is more of an arena shooter than halo. at least it has rocket surfing.

The problem with Arena shooters is that ultimately they require too much skilled movement which is toxic to casuals.

I would say the ability for 1v1 2v2 content to be a viable mode would be more accurate to define an Arena shooter than anything else

>least UT4 has the benefit of attracting curious fortnite players to keep the population afloat.
do people still play anything other than FFA or team elimination?
not that i dont like those modes but i think FFA is done better in quake live and team elimination is STILL more populated on UT2K4 (Team Arena Masters mod)

Slide hopping in Titan Fall is fun

They don't, the main problem is people act like it does and so it scares off the casuals needed to provide a userbase. They're nowhere near as hard as people hype them up to be and because people that don't play them like to signal about how hard it is to flex on other genres they don't like it keeps perpetuating.

I know he's dead but he doesn't get the major point.
"Arena Shooters" don't have plenty of options - none of these have real marketing behind them, none of them have real money behind them, none of them have ever been an approach that would bring in the many fractured part of the playerbase that's there.

Kind of like RTS guys - let me use this for an analogy here - People say no real RTS games come out anymore, right, and when they do, they're either watered down and ruined (Dawn of War III, the "quake champions" of RTS), or generic shitty shells of their former selves and are mediocre as fuck and don't really improve upon anything we already had 20 years ago (Grey Goo, or the Toxikk of RTS).

And most people who "want a new RTS" don't really want a new RTS. RTS population is split many ways - there are people who like Supreme Commander / Total Annihilation style, but don't like Command and Conquer style, or people who like Warcraft 3 style, but not Starcraft style, and the "subtle differences" can be game breaking and completely different for people. There are people who love starcraft 1, but hate starcraft 2, etc... And that doesn't include all the people who "THOUGHT" they liked RTS, but actually just wanted to play a city-builder game, or wanted some hybrid like Stronghold Crusader which is too complex to gain any traction in today's marketplace as an online game.

So back to arena shooters to stay on topic, just an example here: First off, there is a big divide between the "UT style" and "Quake style" so you already have the playerbase divided in half.
Then on the UT side, you have people who prefer UT99, and people who prefer UT2K4, so THEY'RE divided again. Some people feel UT2K4 ruined the series, some people think it's the best thing to ever happen to it.
On the Quake side, there are people who hail 3 as the holy grail of FPS, and other people who will never forgive Q2 for adding railgun, so they just play QW and think railgun ruined the game.

Cont. :

So even for the people who think Q3 is the best answer - THAT game has tons of division in and of itself - Do we do "Vq3" ("vanilla" / base quake 3 movement) or CPMA movement/physics? How much air control should the player have? How fast should weapon switch be? How much movement speed should be able to be retrained when turning around corners? This sounds like a small thing, but it adds up to a game playing and feeling completely different, and there are people who shunned Reflex because instead of being a 100% 1-to-1 copy of CPMA, it was only 98% copy of CPMA. Not good enough.

So the quake audience is fractured, the UT audience is fractured, and there's tons of people who don't even really want to pay for any new shit because of all the good free games (Warsow, OldNexuiz/New-Xonotic, Alien Arena, OpenArena, Cube/Cube2Sauerbraten/AssaultCube, whatever the fuck it is)
And because there's nothing new that really improves on what's already been out there.

ON TOP OF THAT, many people JUST want to play LAN with their friends, many people just want to play single player against bots, many people just want a faux single player campaign (which UT99/Q3A/Q3TA/UT2K4 did fucking fantastically, and UT3 kind of fucked up but at least it was still there)

So bottom line is lots of people won't even play online, and of the people that do, probably 95% of the online players don't want to play duel, don't want to waste time in matchmaking, they just wanna hop into a server and frag, whether it's FFA, rocket arena / clan arena, freezetag, jailbreak, or any of these other "casual modes" that is what needs to be pushed, not duel, not sacrifice, maybe iCTF but not real CTF, because people can't handle them and won't be good at them and will filter themselves out. When you say a game needs the playerbase to be skilled to be good at it, they won't play the game. So give people the modes they want to play when they want to play them.

I think if you just made something that was the best of both worlds in the UT and Q3 fashion and tried to unite the populace under one banner and give people the options, I think they would. As long as it isn't complete shit like QC.

I'm not saying it needs to be as dumb as Overwatch or TF2, or some dogshit attempt like lawbreakers to toe the line, but it can't be much harder than, say, Tribes Ascend, I think that's like the breaking point for most would-be players new to the genre.

But for example, why does Quake Live have a better movement tutorial than Quake Champions? And even then it isn't perfect but it's a lot better than most other in-game movement tutorial.

youtube.com/watch?v=z4RVJsb6lRE

Simple games can have shit like the above.

Harder games need things like Reflex_Train or b0 map.
or even other fan-made movement practice maps
youtube.com/watch?v=JYhlk4cwqz4

youtube.com/watch?v=zeIb-CPaTwg
I'd argue that 95% of the would-be-new-quake-5-arena-audience doesn't know how to strafe jump and doesn't want to learn.

It just needs a decent singleplayer campaign and offline challenge stuff to ease people into it.

He's right though.

Halo is literally the gap closer between arena shooters and modern shooters.
Its a weird in-between that worked out just fine

This.
It's depressing that Tribes Vengeance got this better than almost all arena shooters, and T:V was just UT2K4 with jetpacks.
youtube.com/watch?v=a4gYnNMxLxQ
love the cringey voice acting from 2004 lol

youtube.com/watch?v=2okqzm8h5y0

He's not wrong. I came across this thread because I was searching for a more arcady fps ala call of duty.

>single-handedly murdered the genre in cold blood
>ARENA FPS DIDN'T JUST DIE...IT WAS MURDERED...

The reason they died out was that while it was a smaller market it was actually pretty oversaturated, usually people would make their own because they dissatisfied with what Quake or Unreal had become and felt they could just make their own, but all this did was splinter the playerbase

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>I personally am a big fan of FPS/RTS genre, which consists of almost dead games, and regular community members of those games came because they sought the game out, not because game was advertised to them.
What's interesting is people STILL play Battlezone98 / BZ2.

youtube.com/watch?v=ogKoOFF7fko
Check the upload dates. Literally this week.
youtube.com/watch?v=thK_iwsdU2k
youtube.com/watch?v=Y4504qRuDic

In 5 years someone will advertise a daring new take on the Battle Royale genre that features respawns, faster movement, and a tighter, more focused map. They'll call the main game mode "Kill Match" and it will be hugely popular with the zoomers and hailed as the hottest new thing in gaming.

This is but one of the dozens of problems with the genre, but a very true and succinct way of what was rambling about. Lots of fractured playerbase, and lots of people just moved on to other games and won't waste their time with arena shooters again. Most of my ex-AFPS friends play CS, R6S, OW, shit like that, or destiny/division

or battlefield, i forgot
God the worst part is you will be right and I will be so pissed
underrated

kek
what they need to do is get NIN to do the soundtrack again...
youtube.com/watch?v=qVOHTGYoM6E

Yeah just now they're playing last man standing mode instead of deathmatch

why did they make quake live not free
what the fuck was the reasoning behind that

>What was the reasoning behind that
Extort money from playerbase
It had 1.5 million players when it was free
About 10k now (about 500 concurrent)

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Openarena.

While this guy bleed from his anus to death while blabbering about Fortnite, he's right.
Reflex has tens of players. TENS. I guess its target audience is too busy talking about arena shooters on vietnamese basketweaving forums. You don't want to play Q3A, you want the feeling of playing it as a kid which is harder to achieve.

Quake Champions is alright. Ive watched a few streams today and the matchmaking seems faster than when it was in beta.

I wanna play Q3 but the game is dead.