Try really hard not to talk about Sonic Adventure so I don't open myself up to cringe when I try to applaud something...

They're not meant to be. If a game has two discs, do you judge the discs on their own?

When this came out I didn't even know what the plot was, it wasn't until years later that I got bored and decided to look. When you press start it skips the cutscenes.

Each game cost $50. And you paid for it.

Not me. My Genesis came with both.

That's not the developers' faults, though. Jewery aside, the games aren't meant to be separated.
And even if they were, Sonic 3 is better than Sonic 2, but Sonic & Knuckles is just shy of being as good.

>unleashed
>below average

This trailer is unironically better than the original.

youtube.com/watch?v=xZ5OvTC9gAk

In addition, Sonic Advance 2 is below average. Sonic Advance 1 and 3 are good.

Paramount, hire this man!

This is the opinion I'm most familiar with.

And the one I'm prone to disagree with as a result.

Wait, as a result of your own findings or as a response to the popular opinion? Cause if you're just a faggot contrarian, that's real gay shit.

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Wii version sold the most, Xbox 360 version was pretty fun though

It absolutely is the developer's faults that they couldn't finish Sonic 3 on time and had to split it into two games.

Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic Mania are the only good Sonic games

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Reminder that the same people that say humans have no place in Sonic’s world and scoff at Gerald are the same ones that defend mephiles and infinite

I consider you an angry sonic fan.

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>On time
That's not what it was at all. The game wasn't split because it wasn't finished in time. It was split because it was too big to fit on one cartridge.

Realistic humans don't, but cartoony characters do. Yes Gerald is slightly serious but he has a mostly cartoony appearance.

Reminder that SEGA would rather tell you to shut the fuck up than make a good game

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Sonic Advance 2 was in my top 3 Sonic games until Sonic Mania happened.

Unleashed being under Lost World is absolutely unacceptable.

Good. Sonic fans don't know what they want and the Twitter and YouTube crowd is the most retarded anyway.

Sonic fans know EXACTLY what they want. Even they admit a lot of Sonic games are meh.

The fanbase is fractured as fuck. You've got people screaming for Adventure, for them to fix boost like in Generations, and even people wanting Lost World style gameplay. It's a fucking mess.

Well they just need a truly divisive game like DmC Devil May Cry to unite them behind a simple concept.

this game was pure kino and blew my young mind.
>big selection of characters
>each has their own story
>open hubs to fuck around in
>graphics were amazing for the time
>chao fucking garden
>secrets
>comfy music

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It absolutely was due to the game slipping. It was supposed to be released holiday of 1993, but they missed that date and it eventually came out in 1994 in a half state.
Also, the cartridge size was not a problem. Phantasy Star IV was 24 megabits, which is how large the game was reported to be. There are prototypes of pre-locked on that weigh in at 32 megabit, but there's still lots of duplicated data and not much cleaning up done. Super Street Fighter 2 is a whole 40 megabits and that was released in 1993 as well, so the capacity was definitely there.

Sonic games I liked
>GCN Adventure 1 and 2
>Sonic 3 and Knuckles
>CD (Steam version)
>Generations
>Mania
Sonic games I didn't like -
>Boom
>06
>Heroes
>Lost World
>That terrible version of Sonic 2 that I accidentally bought on the Wii shop that uses the para-glider

From what I've experiened the Classic "universe" has way more appeal and works much better for Sonic. I'm glad they're showing classic some love and I hope they keep it as far away from modern as possible. I will admit that I have a lot of nostalgia for adventure, though. I wouldn't mind them going back to that for the modern series.

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>>That terrible version of Sonic 2 that I accidentally bought on the Wii shop that uses the para-glider

Sonic 2 Game Gear then.

I forgot to mention that Shadow the hedgehog and both episodes of Sonic 4 were hot trash.

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sonic heroes wasnt average it was just a necessary tone down of the insanity that was SA 1 and 2

you also had shadow using guns at the same time in another game

The Sonic games I truly have no patience for are Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic 360.

Sonic Forces BARELY slides under the door. Barely.

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The problem is that the fanbase is basically several fanbases stuck under one brand.

Classic sonic fans want simple story-lite platforming games with pinball physics.

Adventure era fans want shounen-style plots, character development, and high speed arcade-style stages with multiple playable characters, and either multiple routes or a neat scoring system all with multiple missions.

Shadow/06 fans really like the experimental concepts involved and want to see them done right

Boost era fans want games where they have all the speed in the world and just need to point sonic in a direction and watch him tear a path. Maybe with or without a shounen-like plot depending on how much they like unleashed or not.

Boom fans want a sitcom.

Comic fans want shounen-style plots but are otherwise content to sit in their bubble and not rock the boat.

Chao garden fans want a mobile game.

It's basically a no win scenario currently since certain aspects of the fandom get neglected for such extended lengths that it encourages backlash like no other series.

SA1 and SA2 were no crazier than any 3d platformer at the time (hell, SA1 is basically a basic sonic plot with a sympathetic non-eggman villain tossed in), and Shadow, though dumb, was basically just a cheap attempt at aping off of the success of games like Jak 2 (which was edgy as fuck) and Ratchet and Clank.

>Shadow and Shuffle good
>Unleashed and Colors bad

Because it sucks

I honestly hate colors too. It's not a bad game, but it generally feels more like a generic 2d platformer with sonic tossed in than a game designed around sonic or his world.

I'd agree Unleashed is an otherwise fine game with some flaws in its pacing though.

Yes.

To add to this, even Maria in SA2 wasn't "realistic." She was basically an anime girl in semi-low poly 3d. Which I think works pretty well for Sonic's series aesthetically since it's always had something of an anime-esque aesthetic, especially from Adventure onwards and particularly in the case of something like Riders.

I feel like the Adventure series has good physics for Sonic with Spindash/Bounceball and nice momentum but it suffers from mediocre level design.

The real problem is it's grouping everything 6th gen and foward as "modern", when in reality the Adventure/early 2000 titles were it's own era distinct from actual modern sonic (Unleashed onwards)

Why doesn't Sega just get some other developer to make the games? Sonic Team is awful. They can't make good sonic games and they can't make good Dreams games either.

Maria is still a bad design, she just straight up looks ugly and clashes, but that's not the reason why she's so bad. The whole tragic backstory of shadow with MARIA! was something I originally thought everyone agreed was bad, but recently I found out adults think that it was well done.

Sonic is intrinsically cursed. BioWare tried to make a Sonic RPG and it was awful.

they didn't, though. they just gave brands stupid enough to unironically use that image the tools to end themselves.

Sonic was cursed since the beginning, the reason he runs fast is because it was to show off the capabilities of the Genesis, now every single game has to have a "Fast" gimmick, Sonic games will never be about platformer, it's always going to be about going through loops and tubes and then the actually platforming segments have shitty controls

Based and completely 100% bona fide redpilled.
Sega's attempt at charging twice for a game did not go unnoticed.

Eh, I'd say the level design in the adventure games is generally pretty good; the only thing that needs a lot of reworking from them is the camera which is occasionally COMPLETE ass.

Stages like Red Mountain, Amy's Hot Shelter, Sonic's Final Egg, Speed Highway (with all characters), and Emerald Coast are pretty solid shit for platforming and even the worst of it (Sky Deck) is more a consequence of the camera than the stage being too terribly designed since it too has multiple ways of approaching every part of the stage (although Sky Deck is still probably the worst stage in the game either way). And it's pretty obvious that the SA2 linearity was a bottle necking response to this kind of camera concern in the first place.

I definitely agree that it could be improved on though. Something like 06's Kingdom Valley demo area is probably the kind of shit that would suit that gameplay style more, oddly enough.

I still think it's pretty well done as far as game plots go, and yeah back before shitting on sonic was commonplace, people on forums largely though SA2's plot was well done. I'd imagine it just feels especially weird since the entire public perception of sonic has shifted since then. At the time, Sonic was an edgier platformer counterpart like the Megaman X series, and so, a cheesy action movie style plot didn't feel out of place.

I fucking loved that 06 demo, I played it more than the game itself. iirc it was a more complete version of the game than the actual retail release

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That's because Bioware gave it to their newer handheld team at the time and it was their first game. I don't know why the fuck Sonic Team didn't make the RPG themselves, it's not like they dont have experience. On another note, I honestly don't understand how you could get so much right with the first few leaps into 3D with the Adventure games and then just make them worse and worse, especially seeing as being able to make so many ports means they must have some access to the source code. At least Mania exists.

How can one man be so wrong?

I remember 5+ years ago trying to create unironic Sonic threads. Yea Forums is far more open to Sonic now than it used to be.

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Which youtuber shit on SA2's story now?

Advance 3 is fucking garbage. The level design is almost Sonic Boom tier in terms of shitty dragged out "puzzles" and awkward platforming.

Sonic threads are fucking weird because the diehard sonic fans are extremely autistic about the most minor things. I'm not meaning that in the "durr sonic fans r cringetism" shit like people argue, I mean that the diehard sonic fans have their own faggy little cliques and circlejerks over specific sonic games -- not in legitimate appreciation of them, but shit they'll attack people over -- that ruins the discourse on the whole topic.

A friend of mine has a bunch of loser circlejerkers who all jerk off his opinions on classic sonic for that reason. Sonic's one of those games that's basically impossible to talk about because of faggots like this, plus the "DURR SONIC R CRINGE" dipshits, and add the inherently dogshit nature of Yea Forums nowadays and you have a topic that's pretty much impossible to discuss openly and honestly.

>Unleashed
>Bellow Average
You played the Wii version, huh?

Prime example!
>MUH BALDY NOSEHAIR
>MUH SOUL
>MUH GOLDEN AGE
how about appreciate the games individually instead of circlejerking over periods of the history you dipfuckers

Because most of the games after 2006 are not worth appreciating, faggot.

Sorry, no (yous)

You're going to have to try a little harder than "games after X are bad." Colors and Unleashed are pretty good and Zero Gravity was passable.

Stop giving him (you)s. He does this for attention.

shadow is fucking fantastic for people with an IQ above 120

Truly, Shadow the Hedgehog is the Rick and Morty of the Sonic franchise.