FFXIV Shadowbringers

4.0 here, this is my first expansion.

At the tail end of the Leviathan update. I don't remember which one it was.

Mogpom spot outside of Moghome. Spent SO much time there making $$$ before the market crashed. Second place goes to the razor clam camp outside aleport.

the first day of early access is a magical experience full of technical problems and connection issues. good luck and have fun user.

>GUN gets 2 (2) oGCD DoTs
>Meanwhile they can't bring back Scourge

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probably forgot about it

one is actually gcd
and it's fucking bad

2.2, after literally never having played an mmo before because a bunch of my friends were playing it

>DRK
>DRG
>healers
Who else got cuck shedded?

Bow Shock? It's 650 Potency.

How are tanks for solo/quest play? I was thinking of going dark for the Shadowbringers story and switching out to dps whenever I'm forced to group.

Is FF14angler still the best fishing site? Last I heard, it was full of ads.

>GNB has okay utility but damage seems lacking, however it can be fixed with potency adjustments
>PLD stronk
>WAR retard stronk
>DRK still firmly in the shed with terrible cooldowns and 123 rotation

I'm gonna have a heart attack and die from this surprise.

Diadem
ff14angler.com

>>DRK still firmly in the shed with terrible cooldowns and 123 rotation
TBN is still the strongest mitigation tool of all the tanks and they buffed it.

the other one (sonic break, i think), bow shock is the good one
it's like 350 potency, which is barely stronger than just doing 123 + cartridge spender per gcd

He probably meant sonic break, a gcd with special recast time.
Bow shock is ogcd.

How come people are saying GNB's damage seems weak? I feel there's potential to match WAR's or be extremely close where its superior mitigation will overshadow the marginal DPS increase.

>>DRK still firmly in the shed with terrible cooldowns and 123 rotation
Is this the case? I remember everyone was saying WAR was going to be dogshit and DRK was going to be the posterboy expansion tank to play.

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xeno said so

I think you guys got it backwards.

Bow Shock is a 650 Potency Circle of Scorn that's 60s recast but is on the GCD. Sonic Break doesn't share cooldown with any other skill but is single-target and weaker.

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wars freak out everytime their class might not be the absolute best tank, ignore them
it still has all the stuff that makes war good and they got some new cool shit too

drk is straight up worse, especially in dungeons
abyssal drain is now an ocd with a 60s recast time

Played a bit of 1.0, determined it to be the most broken game I'd played in my life, came back in ARR beta and stayed since.

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I started in 2.2 when Leviathan was all the rage and Noct gear was the gear to have.
Only played for a month though and I picked the game back up in 3.4.

WAR is almost exactly the same as in SB but with even more damage. all the DRK hype pre embargo lift was just bandwagoning because of the job trailer.
that being said all of the tanks are in a good spot and the gaps between them are minor. all the shedposting is about absolute minmax autism.

>I remember everyone was saying WAR was going to be dogshit and DRK was going to be the posterboy expansion tank to play.
Based on skill animations.
SKILL ANIMATIONS.
Yeah WARs got shafted on good new sparkles but their skills are still just as strong as ever.

Did they change that? In yoshi's demo sonic break couldn't be used as ogcd at all.

>tfw youre not a healer main

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some dude did a simulated rotation and it's like 1k dps behind the other three, which are roughly equal
plus just eyeballing the potencies gnb seems like it's on the weak side. everything else about its kit is good to great so they just need to turn the numbers up a bit to fix it

Are you the crying woman or the dancing nigga? Because queue times are gonna be awful in ShB if you're not a healer.

so?

September of 2013

Everyone either had the magitek mount or a chocobo

What are they even bitching about? Every job got massive buffs and cool new abilities. THe fuck are they even mad over?

Played through 2.1 back in 2016 on PS4
Got back in in January and have been using the game as a placebo for quitting all the shitty gachashit I was playing, at 60 on every job on my second character right now

>barely stronger
if it's stronger than your GCD average, it's always worth using.

>not having a static to level up and raid with

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it's going to be really boring. anyone who played a healer before SB already knows how fun healing could be in this game and it had nothing to do with how big or frequent the heals we could shit out were.

i know, but in terms of all the other dots in the game it's extremely weak, which kinda goes back to gnb apparently not doing a whole lot of damage comparatively

mid SB, after beating heroic argus in WoW my guild practically disbanded, so i tried ffxiv's trial and i loved it.
Just around the time i got to 35 the base game and SB went on sale.

whm is just kind of there
ast got straight up nerfed
sch is the new pure healing slut that doesnt excel in anything but healing

I don't force my static to run Expert dungeons with me.

>static
i prefer to refer to them as "friends"

Is GNB really undertuned or did that guy just fuck up the simulation? I can see 5% - 10% disparity, but almost 20% just seems ridiculous.

ARR beta.

I love how MONK is still the best melee dps since ARR. True patrician job who shits on all the weeb shitters.

Maybe it was a mistake. Sonic Break being on the GCD makes 0 sense.

It's a couple months old beta build.

They're literally complaining about losing a dot. I've seen people act like not being able to cast aero 3 or miasma is going to ruin the game for them.

i barely talk to them except when playing the game

Don't you mean SAMURAI is the best job period? It literally shits on all other jobs in the game both visually-wise, DPS-wise and complexity-wise. You really have to be braindead and a fucking nigger to not play this job.

I can see them bumping up potency or just make it ogcd. Won't take too much effort on their part.

Cringe

3.1 I think. Didn't hit endgame til 3.2. I was really nervous doing a lot of content as a tank til I hit my stride in 3.5 but I had a blast when I did.

You're still in the shed and you're not fooling anyone.

I thought everyone was aware BLM was doing more damage than SAM for quite a while now.

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Doesn't this prove it isn't on the GCD?

3.3 or 3.4. My earliest memory of the game is dicking around a level 15 area and watching my FC at the time flip out over Exponential Entropy.
I reached endgame just in time to grind Zurvan Ex for a few weeks before SB dropped.

Around November / December of 2016 which would have been around Patch 2.4 (Soul Surrender). I got into the game because I liked watching the Sophia fight so much and loved the music.

I've been maining WHM for years and I'm going to swap to BLM now

XIV tooltips are notorious for being inconsistent. You have to actually see them in action.

Sorry 3.4 not 2.4.

Don't know. Somewhere at ARR.

I know it wasn't too late because by the time Shiva released I was already there for a while but it was also not too early either.

youtu.be/isCmpoAjf94

I'm going to play through the MSQ as DRK and none of you shed posters will deter me.

>samurai
>complex
>damage
LMAO
classic weeb in denial.

>brotherhood still in the game, still pretty good
>dnc is going to be in every party and gl4 gives them fat stacks of esprit
>piercing debuff gone so drg isn't locked in anymore
the age of monk has begun

t. SAM

monk was never in the shed. unlike you lol

Back about 2010 or 2011 and been on this wild ride since as a legacy account.

While it's not on the GCD due to the separated recast, it is used in place of one. Realistically, it could be counted as one depending on context (mainly GCD vs oGCD)

Around Easter last year

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Healer mains are retards.
Discuss.

If what they're saying is true and you need to heal more due to more damage coming out, then yes.

If it's SB levels of damage then they got gimped for no gain.

>chinaboo talking shit about anyone

I don't exactly remember when I had first started playing, would have been around when that weird Shantotto event was going on. I don't think ROG/NIN were even available yet. I stopped playing somewhere around level 40 or so, and picked it back up with Heavensward. Been playing consistently ever since.

Is there anything that would make DRK interesting to play? Even your clone is a dot.

2.1

Queue times? You do know what trust is right?

1.19c, shortly after the job system was implemented. I was pretty pissed when they gave up on the idea of jobs being sidegrades.

Thanks OP that other thread is just awful garbage trash and I don't know why it's even still up.

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just now playing through stormblood
these first few missions kinda suck

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ARR beta

1.0 Beta

In a sense I miss those days, even if the game wasn't great at the time

>these first few missions kinda suck
>first few
Carry on my wayward son, there'll be peace when you are done.

stormblood story is worse than HW so have fun buddy

Why was the Yotsuyu/Asahi plotline so fucking bad? Some parts of the story before that were good but this was just painful to slog through.

>these first few missions kinda suck
?

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shb drk is so trash, give me back abyssal on the gcd right fucking now

because asahi is the least likable character in the entire game and yotsuyu should have been dead since doma castle

I tried the 1.0 beta but didn't like it, started preSB but dropped it when i hit the preHW shitshow, but picked it up again.

WAKE UP

this
im very mad

no

Please don't do this. Stalwart Soul looks like a decent replacement.

stop adding gcds to bard i want only ogcds why is apex arrow a fuckin gcd cant even be supported by barrage

It's not even the characters, the writing is just abysmal, predicatable, and horribly cliche

There was nothing to miss. It was so fucking bad, I don't even know how anyone could feel nostalgic about it.

No. Have it cost MP and be OGCD.

blahblahblah so sick of this tired wanna-be literature expert bullshit in video games. please fuck off nobody cares about your ""expert opinion""

GRAB A BRUSH AND PUT A LITTLE MAKEUP

fuck that shit, abyssal let you run and keep aggroing stuff, it was the best

>posting the last of heavensward
>cutscenes count as missions

Because Yotsuyu shooting her dad felt extremely forced and trying to fit in a status quo.

>trust system
>they're smarter than real players in dungeons
HOLY SHIT YOSHI

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Who hurt you?

It had some good things going for it, but the foundation for it was just so fucking rotten there was no saving it.

started with a friend on behemoth in 3.0 but only had the 30 days and burned out as soon as i unlocked drg
made a new character on balmung in 3.4 which is the one i've been playing since

4.5. Never played MMOs after WotLK. Unironically like XIV. It's not "classic" MMO but great action RPG with multiplayer

>I don't even know how anyone could feel nostalgic about it.
Poor attempt to try to bait other people into wishing they were there.

But you clearly cared enough to make that comment.

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They can outright break game's mechanic too, like how Thancred used Shukuchi to cross a gap.

As someone coming from FFXI it was a new experience that promised to fix a lot of the things we always complained about in that.

Wandering the world with friends back then, copy-pasted though much of it was, was still an enjoyable experience even if most of the gameplay was absolute garbage

1.0 wasnt bad. give me 10 reason why 1.0 sucked. its just dumb casual kiddies couldnt handle a hard mmo that forced you to be social enjoy wow with your coat of FF paint now

I really hope they add some nice dialogue to it. Especially if it's something like Alisae roasting Alphy for letting someone in the party die.

IMAGINE

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user
Replies take zero effort or care. We're already at the computer and it is not like any of us have anything better to be doing.

>Omega and Shinryu actually use those abilities in their respective fights
I thought it was very cool

I'm just glad I managed to Elusive Jump off my balcony onto the Striing Dummy before they fucked them all and made them drag you along the floor.

Looking pretty doesn't fix anything from XI.

I messed around with character creation in the benchmark and I actual prefer Viera with the height slider at the bottom.

Damn, you could do that? I had no idea.

True, it fixed very little in most regards, but it was more about experiencing something new in the company of people who were similarly hyped that now no longer play

I'm new and was doing PoTD and ended up setting my skills like this but I know it isn't great so does anyone have any suggestions on what could be changed/swapped around?

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>even teenage Minfilia is already padding her bra
What a whore

Me too. If trust system will be successful we can expect more in future expacs. maybe tortanic dialogue system or something. I want more interaction with story NPC

yea use a keyboard have fun

Yeah, all Jumps (not that anything other than Elusive was good for it), Aetherial Manip, Shikuchi etc used to all take height into account. Was popular for getting onto housing rooftops and climbing around Rev Toll.

Confirmed faggot Viera

teenage girls have tits user

The only faggot here is the guy who plays the literal gayfur race.

>drk is going to be dogshit in dungeons and raid now
EPIC REWORK

>implying that is padding

>dungeons
who fucking cares literally anything can do the dungeons in this game

How? DRG plays the same still in fact better now

thats what DRK players deserve for baiting me into wasting hours of my life to play the shitty DRK quest chain.

1.0 the base game specifically?
>No autoattack inbetween actions
>Black Shroud in general
>Extremely horrible optimization in comparison to Dragon Quest X which also used Crystal Engine to a point the game can't be improved any further since it pushed the engine to its limits
>Reliance on leveplates to level up which recharged slowly
>Nothing to do for NEETs who got a job to 50 at the time
>Flowerpots
>Repetitive zones
>Crafting being laggy
>Server side menus
>Gathering was based around the server which lagged a lot, making you fuck up the gathering minigames

SHOW NO HESITATION
WAKE UP

DRG doesn't have a lot skills so you can use 1 Wx for both of L2/R2 and R2/L2 because you will weave jumps between combo. Heavy Thrust is third leg tho.
>
>KB in xiv
>fun
don't cry about hard rotations

got in at the start of 2.0. Almost reached cap at the time then didn't jump back in until 4.0. Unsubbed after 4.1 and now I'm back finishing up all the patches before Shadowbringers.

when drk gets buffed in 5.4 it's over for you hoes

so in the trailer minfilia looks like a little loli, but now in game she is a teenager? how much time passes between the cgi trailer and the actual game?

>It's SB monk all over again
Please never let PLD be the face of an expansion.

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Will DRG have both Jump and High Jump or is High Jump an upgrade of Jump?

SAM and NIN since MNK is so strong it will take two slots in the raid meta.

>don't cry about hard rotations
??

got nothing to do until expansion now. still have PLD, AST, DRK below 70 but I don't like them they're gay

I think it's just the trailer being a bit off. She's a teen on the artwork.

youtube.com/watch?v=siwpn14IE7E

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>rotations
>hard
do we play the same game?

It's probably real Minfilia who already existed in this world
both

Upgrade.

You forgot
No jumping.

You have other AOE's and Quietus that's more than enough to spam your shit

>archer was the face of 1.0
>game was complete trash
hopefully they dont make bard one either

WHICH ONE IS IT? AAAAAAAAA

m..mm.muh fray.
fuck off, edgelord.

>Danger Zone becomes Blasting Zone at level 80
It's disappointing to both lose that name, and for the level 80 ability to just be an upgrade on an existing skill.

>Real minfilia who already existed in this world
Not a thing. The First isn't a bizarro world with its own versions of Source characters.

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its an upgrade

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High jump is an upgrade of jump.

Alright thanks

>PLD
>below 70
Never gonna make it..

NOOOOOOOOOOO HEALERS SHOULDNT BE FORCED INTO HEALING BROS

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I mean a lot people crying about hard rotation/openers/hard jobs in game. But every time I pick new job I fail to see "hard part" of rotations/openers. That's why I suspect game is harder to play on KB. Otherwise I have no idea.

2.0 launch

WAR is literally the best job in the game they cater to it more in every update

>360 shit
abyssal was the best because it was ranged and had a self heal, unleash is garbage looking and melee

im sorry for your 4 remaining iq points user

>Waaaah my job is ruined!
Just play all of them, so if they gut a job, you can just play something else.

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Playing all of them doesn't mean you enjoy all of them.

Retards tend to be retards regardless of control interface. XIV has a lot of them.

We're fucked in dungeons because all of our self-healing got assassinated. But maybe it's in exchange for more AOE damage. I see them putting MP regain on quietus again.

It does become a lot more flashy and doubles in potency.

finally someone that gets it. you don't even have to play everything as long as you're not some fanboy who limits himself to one job.

>N-N-N--N-O THEY'RE DEFINITELY INCREASING RAID DAMAGE
>>BASED YOSHIDA WILL REBALANCE THE ENTIRE GAME JUST LIKE HE DID WITH STORMBLOOD *SUCKS AND FONDLES ON YOSHI P'S BALLS HARDER*
this is you

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>all Savage loot now drops as coffers you can open on any job you want (provided you win the roll)

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I was in a group with a DRG yesterday that just didn't use blood of the dragon at all
Just why

Why do they keep simplifying healers?
What's the point of playing them anymore?

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Don't worry you won't have to heal. Damage output will be the same. You're just going to be spamming one button filler for most of the fight.

You have like 3 other AOE's shut the fuck up

>Enjoy DRK in Heavensward
>DRK is kill in SB
>Good thing WAR is maxed out because I really enjoy them now

Do you only enjoy one job, user?
Do you really believe that you won't enjoy ANY of the changes to ANY of the jobs?

great for statics
shit for pugs.

anyone who thinks there will be more incoming damage is a retard. they're definitely not increasing incoming damage for 2.0-4.0 either so leveling healers will be the worst it's ever been.

to heal the actual dps dumbass spam stone and shut up

It's so people can masturbate to the thought of being a sissy healslut while playing the game.

>5am
>SCHs still this mad

whats the source on this?

Stop standing in bad.

>new aoe rotation that gives Blood and restores MP
>ogcd Flood of Shadow that you can spam between aoe rotation to burn MP
>Abyssal Drain can still be used at least once per pull for free
>Quietus still exists
>Delirium now lets you spam Quietus while restoring MP to spam Flood of Shadow
>TBN still exists and gives you a free Flood of Shadow too
>no more relying on Blood Price for Blood and MP means you can actually fucking function with a White Mage in the party
How the fuck do you figure DRK will be anything close to bad for dungeons? It lost AD spam, so what? It gained a ton of new shit that's probably stronger. It won't be the same as it was before, but if you think it isn't good you've got to be fucking blind.

What do you mean R2/L2 or L2/R2? I don't use that weird opposite press thing.

>pug
>instead of 1 or 2 people needing on an item everyone does
enjoy trying to gear that way

Why would anyone need to heal the dps? Healers are for healing the tank, not the DPS. DPS only get healed through AoE healing incidentally as part of keeping the tank up. If you require individual healing as a dps then stop getting hit by mechanics you retard

>My server has queues during day time during pre-expansion lull
What the fuck is it going to be like at ShB launch?

>tfw DRG and the ShB changes are just "ok"
I mean, at least I didn't get fucked over but it's still kinda boring.

my rage keeps me awake

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This
DRK AoE looks like it'll be a blast, just different.

>I don't use that weird opposite press thing.
You should try.

heal me slut

Destructoid interview

>he hit always Blood Price before the 2nd Holy
You did it to yourself.

In 1.0 there was actually a strat to speedrun toto-rak by elusive jumping up a one-way cliff to get a photocell.

I wish more people had this mentality. if they did maybe healers could have been saved.

an error occurred during event movement

>healer cucks still seething a day later
get over it. you are not greendps you are healers. you heal.

The fuck.

DRG is refined job with strong fundamentals. You don't need new mechanics for now. Look at NIN as example.

>my server went from being one of the lowest population to the second highest on primal
preferred servers were a mistake

Fuck off back to wow you nigger.

>t. gets dismissed for dying to avoidable damage
Hope you enjoy that 30 minute long queue time you'll have to go through again

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If they sort of fuck every healer at the same time, there is no saving them.

If you want to do mad damage while supporting the party, DNC is looking really good right now. There are other fun jobs to play besides SCH.

Why the fuck did they make it so Kassatsu upgraded Nijutsu uses Hyoton input instead of Raiton?

why the fuck do you fagots like dots on tanks its the most goddamn fucking boring shit ever

>Emarrel guide for SCH
>he jokes about DPS rotation that makes you feel having high IQ
On point

So players actually had a reason to use Hyoton

WE WILL LITERALLY BE HEALING JUST AS MUCH
WE WILL BE DPSING JUST AS MUCH
DPS IS JUST ONE BUTTON NOW AND NOT INTERESTING AT ALL AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM YOU STUPID FUCKING COCKSUCKER
THE PROBLEM IS HEALERS DON'T NEED MORE HEALING TOOLS WHEN WE BARELY HAVE TO HEAL AS IS

>Restricting a job to only do the main function of their role.
Wow user, I can't believe you hate fun.

It sounds so freaky though wouldn't you get the same effect pressing R1 to cycle through bars?

i miss when the healers had different playstyles. remember when SCH was the dot mage?

I'm looking forward to it.

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Imagine DNC drama in alliance raids and EX/savage pugs
>be MY DANCER
>PARSE ME

You can thank the seething WHM trannies for making every healer shit now.

What a horrible idea if you're not in a static.

So DRG combos become 6 point now?
>True Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Fang and Claw -> Wheeling Thrust -> Raiden Thrust

Actually how is raiden thrust used if it's not hotbar'd

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triggering heal cucks is so easy right now farming all these replies

I don't doubt DRK is gonna have good AoE but fuck will I miss AD spamming. It was so exhilarating to see your health yo-yo while the healer just jerks off.

>partner to a healer just to piss off the faggots.

Raiden Thrust replaces True Thrust if you get the proc from correct positional.

What's the point of the mog tomestone event?

epic simply epic troll Yea Forumsro epic gamer style...

>more buttons means more skill!

>You'll never juggle bio, miasma, miasma II, thunder and aero between mobs while weaving energy drains, shadow flares and banes inbetween
>You'll forever be an AST with a fairy

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Actually Sonic Break is a typo in english, it's 300 potency in JP

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HW tanks/healers were really cool. I was hoping things would go a notch further in that direction, not three notches back.

Nice.

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objectively correct

heal you dumb cucks, you are not a dps job. you need to heal. if i see a single healer using a dps spell at launch me and my 2 fc mates will be removing you from the group.

Makes much more sense now.
I wonder if C&S is also typo with its pitiful 200 potency, but JP tooltip also states the same.

more buttons DOES equal more skill, you mongoloid

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That'd be a valid argument if the buttons we have had more to them. Pressing more boring buttons is more fun than pressing less boring buttons, at least until you have too many buttons to handle.

>healers queuing by themselves
lol

Imagine believing this. Time to go back to Starcraft.

>so much to set up for aoe that i'd tell my WAR buddy to holmgang so i could get my last cast off
>end up outdamaging the roulette shit dps
take me back

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>Healers will now take longer to replace than tanks
>Healers will now have instant queue
>He unironically believes he can threaten healers with dismissal under those circumstances

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get in the shed with the mchs and drks scholar bros

>DNC gf who only buffs her boyfriend
>He's a tank
>static has to accept this or leave

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Reminder that everyone saying all healers are going to quit are SCH mains, WHMs and ASTs are not seething like SCHs are

Give me pvp or aion combo system where they all come from the same button press.

this
t. ast main

epic samefag

can you kaiten this?

>tfw SCH main who is already over it

I'll take my stronger barriers thanks

Oh no no no you misunderstood
AST is the one in the shed
SCH is broken

*kicks both of them*
how hard was that

no one is going to quit over the changes, all healers are little sissy bitches and need a good hard smack to get back in line. now heal me. and i better not see a broil cast.

>imagine believing this

Pic related is one of the hardest games of all time. It had zero attack buttons.

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>no one is going to quit over the changes
fuck you i'm a tank now

Do you have the JP tooltip for Sidewinder and Shadowbite? They have the same potency in the english version despite sharing the same CD and one being AoE and the other ST.

>You're just going to be spamming one button filler for most of the fight.
So it's going to be exactly the same as it is now?

Seen plenty of distraught Astros. Cards look boring as shit.

>ability

It's so you have access to 32 skills without cycling back and forth. It's not more or less effective than the other, it's just options/preference. Less button presses to access each bar (either by full cycle or R1+face/d-pad for choice vs hold combinations) at the cost of less bars in reach (3 vs 8).

>scholars still seething
this shit has happened every single xpac launch, are scholars the biggest whiny fags in the game?

Blasting Zone is cooler

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Only people crying are NAlets, as usual.

I can't wait to be Dancer so I can be a slut dedicated to serving the party's BLM!

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Congratulations, you've figured it out. Healer "rotations" never actually existed outside of making sure dots don't drop off.
The most interesting one was SCH with its opening and that's it.

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eu has worse clear rates than NA though dumbass

No, currently you had to press a second button every once in a while to keep your dots up. It's completely different.

This isn't even remotely relevant to the limits of XIV job design.

I have absolutely no sympathy for Scholars. You are consistently the whiniest job and make even the most obnoxious Warriors look like saints.

>He's not wrong

Fuck the light and fuck the dark.... and fuckin ascian jews.

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I don't, I only have sonic blade because I saw someone post it in the gunbreaker channel of the balance discord yesterday when they were figuring out stuff about Sonic Break because there's also a typo in the english GNB job gauge description that says sonic blade gives an ammo

You can visit my leylines any time.

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>people saying DRK is dumbed down when it's literally just the same as SB DRK, but with more buttons

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>all these insecure WHMs PRAYING that SCHs are in the shed
>in truth, SCH's kit has never been stronger for healing, and DPS is still alright even if super simplified

it's always SCHs. remember how upset they were last time because they lost fucking blizzard 2 or some shit. they're not happy unless they're top dog of healing and dps

t. false-falling blm

Drg was cucked in sb its actually better now. Will never be as galaxy brain as 3.x though

shadowbite is 100-160-220

why are the SCHs rising up now when they ruined us at 4.0 launch? everyone just took that pity miasma ii and shut the fuck up but it still wasn't enough to bring us back to the HW glory days. SCH has been boring shit through all of SB and i bet you're all going to pretend everything's alright when yoshi hands you your new pity dot and forget anything ever happened.

Late last year, I still haven't finished Stormblood 'cause I took a break from it for a while but the recent free week and the XV event got me back into it.

SCH never had access to Thunder

Since they fucked up sch, drk, and ast and the fact that rdps is going to be overpopulated because of dnc and mch i'm going to go melee dps for an expansion. Should I go drg or nin? The only dps I ever bothered with was bard beyond just leveling them through roulettes.

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WHM's DoT and attack spell are both vastly superior to scholar's and they also have the big dick damage bomb that SCH has nothing to compete with

Ouch, the edge.

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you understand nothing about scholar you dipshit
twice as many buttons and pet micro to keep track of

Nothing against SCH players but god damn I'm tired of playing the job. I just want to play WHM without risking every static passing me over for a 500RDPS increase.

except stratagem u fucking retard

NIN if you want to be always wanted in parties, DRG future is uncertain at the moment.

>he doesn't know misery is just a dps loss compared to glare spam
>he doesn't know dia is identical to biolysis
>he doesn't know SCH has a buffed Ruin II

oh no no no no

>false-falling
WE

can u post apex arrows? from all the vids the damage seems really low

It did in 2.0

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1.0 release day; been on and off a lot because i get fed up with the gear treadmill.

>WAR builds meter and spends it
>PLD spends mp and refreshes it
>DRK is now an unholy combination of both at the same time
really seems like the busiest tank now

Thanks

yell at Yoshi until he gives WHM tools it actually fucking needs then

>pet micro
So you resummoned your otherwise useless fairy to give you 3% haste if the fight allowed it. Or are you talking about memeing the succ shield off your fairy?

hopefully it was just bugged on the build all the youtube people were playing on...450 gcd that you can use once every minute seems shit

No, it didn't. ACN had both and then SMN had access to Thunder while SCH had access to Aero.
I know because I levelled them for the skills only to find out the tooltip info was wrong in the job listings under each.

Afflatus Misery is basically a 30 pot dot that lasts for 90s. its really not that much when you compare it to SCHr's absurd uptime thanks to oGCD healing

im a SCH main and believe me i fucking hate how the job will be but it will still be meta because of its uptime, unfortunately

I've been asking for PoM to be raidwide for years and he keeps ignoring me.

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You’re dumb, it had aero and thunder

positioning, sustain if it got hurt, spreading shields off of it

DRG will be fine. Potencies can change at any moment and they still have good damage increases for party members

You essentially still have the Dark Arts mechanic but you use Edge of Shadow instead, and the only thing you'd save MP for is TBN, which is no longer a dps loss (so long as it breaks). And in general you have more ogcds now.

Yes.
>3.0 Lustrate
>"You ruined SCH! No more % heal wtf SE!"
>Turns out it was a buff except on WAR.
>4.0
>"You ruined SCH! My fairy heals like shit!" Noct AST shields better wtf SE!?
>SE overbuffs Indom, increases shield values so noct AST hits the shitter again, SCH top dog from 3.0.5 or so onward
>Now this
Friendly reminder SCH was never bad, just not meta for the first two SB primals, which were easy anyway.

Wow, such skill

Yeah people are totally overreacting on DRK. The party mitigation being strictly worse than GNB's is the only thing I'm a little miffed about, but I feel like it'll change either before release or before 5.1

>jump higher
>for some reason you land faster than if you jumped lower

>positioning
Don't they let you still position them? Even that is "stick the fairy near the boss in the beginning of the fight and then forget it exists".

>sustain if it got hurt
When does this happen?

It is though. Because it's the difference between a game being difficult to PLAY vs a game being difficult to WIN. The former makes it a bad game.

If you want hitting a striking dummy to be difficult, you have brain damage. The difficulty should come from the enemy, not your own character.

healers had everything THM gave because they needed swiftcast

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oh,so now ascian are the jews and not the lalafell.

yeah cause you go faster bro

Have sex.

>"they said it was reminiscent of the calamity (bahamut)"
>bahamut was literally an enormous fucking dragon they had to build fucking MOON around in order to keep him locked up in orbit
>shinryu is a bit larger than a minivan
this triggered the fuck out of me

You havent seen how pathetic mp regen is compared to mp costs have you

man Ninja is REALLY fucking cool
why aren't the rest of the jobs this fucking cool? playing Samurai after this makes me feel like i'm playing a job for babbies
was NIN just a temporary stroke of genius?

to be fair I felt the SCH shitshow in 4.0, it was literally better to play nocturnal AST and I did for a while.

how embarrassing

>Dark Arts added 140 potency (93% potency of a Hard Slash in SB) to two parts of your combo
>Edge of Darkness does 500 potency (250% potency of a Hard Slash in SHB) between ANYTHING

Misdirection is a classic tactic, user

It relies too much on good latency. As devs you have to account for the fact not everyone is playing in the immediate server region.

Why is that bad? Do you want DA oGCD spams back?

docs.google.com/document/d/1DGUjlPsLKV0gZsy45vkfQqhfp2Bdyc3Ttidl_hOodI8/edit

read a book you dumb niggers
SCH is losing a ton of complexity

True. I think it could really do with allowing one weaponskill between symbols and ninjitsu before you get rabbit'd, that'd pretty much fix the reliance on latency wouldnt it

Official Job Tier List:

Tier 1: Dancer
Tier 2: Monk, Ninja, Warrior, Black Mage
Tier 3: Bard, Machinist, Dragoon, Samurai, Astrologian, Summoner, Gunbreaker, Paladin
Tier 4: Scholar, Red Mage, White Mage, Dark Knight

WHM didn't have access to it either. By your logic they should've.
That was created based on the INCORRECT tooltips.

Fuck off Sch was just a half finished job since launch and slapped on to acn because lazy

>loses some shitty levels of DPS when they aren't DPS
>but get their fair share of buffs to their shield utility and stronger heals
>UGH SCH RUINED

if you want complex DPS then play something that isn't healer

>he's actually seething

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Will they revert these healer changes if people complain enough?

I will become more powerful then you ever imagined warrior of light.. or should I call you the warrior of darkness now? Your time has come.... your gods have failed you. I will become the new God. Pay tribute to me mortal for I will destroy the realm in which you inhabit.

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Not until 5.1.

>AST above SCH after they completely gutted AST damage and party buffs

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It's faster.

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I just want to be a green DPS /sad

uhh yeah no.

possibly, i'd expect they'd only get potency changes though
we're too close to release for any kind of redesign imo

loving every post

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Fuck off Gaius, go and be useless somewhere else

Gunbreaker should've been a DPS

>"hi i have no idea about what made healers in ffxiv popular"

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Gratz for feeling how Noct AST has felt since its invention except for the very start of 4.0, a lesser SCH. Earthly Star at least made the difference much smaller. They resolved SCH before anything relevant came to play.

SCH is staying top dog but it's going to be boring as FUCK to play now
Nobody wins
Why do you like this?

seems good, only good tier listing ive seen

Tanks are just DPS with shit damage anyways

It can either end up like 4.05 SCH or WHM in its entirety throughout 4.x

>UGH SCHOLAR IS ACTUALLY MORE HEALER THAN DPS NOW

Just play a fucking DPS you baby

>gutted AST's damage
We had no personal dps to begin with.

So why did they literally turn every tank into blue dps but healers aren't allowed to have more than a 1 button rotation?

I won’t find it boring

IT'S GOING TO BE THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF DPS UPTIME YOU MONGOLOID
THE DIFFERENCE IS IT'S TWO BUTTONS NOW AND MAKES YOU WANT TO KILL YOURSELF

blood weapon gives you exactly enough mp for one edge/flood and that's not even accounting for siphon strike so you're guaranteed at least one free per minute

youtube.com/watch?v=OnZ6BS7WENc
>No change to Dragon Sight
God fucking damnit Yoshi
Anyway, good changes, a step in the right direction.
I guess i will lvl as a sub

I like SCH for its healing tools and fairy management, not for keeping uptime on dots and using miasma II for weaving.
Go ahead and call me a dungeon hero but I just can not give a shit about these getting trimmed.

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>Healers shouldn't have fun playing their role
That double digit IQ of yours is really hard at work, I see.

WHY BROS WHYYYYYYY DID THE DO THIS TO MY SCHOLAR I WANTED TO PLAY GREENDPS!!!!! AAAAAAAHDGGGGGGGGGAH FUCK HEALING AND FUCK YOSHIP HOW DARE HE MAKE MY JOB MORE IN LINE WITH MY ROLE!!!!!!!!

Because adding an extra skill with reduced potency for both that equals total potency of one does not count as skill

What set is this? The benchmark says lynxfang but when I google that I get something that looks similar but still different, golden even.

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>he doesn't know
you can dragon sight onto yourself now

Go and play an actual DPS then if you want to press more buttons to do dmg you fucking baby

i don't care about meta i just want to have fun

Because idiots don't think. It's going to be 4.1 WAR all over again where everybody rejoiced until WAR dethroned DRK from the OT spot.

That's the behemoth set from pvp, can't remember. I think 3.x?

lynxfang/lynxliege
the PLD set is very similar and probably what you were seeing

>post yfw not a scholar main

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ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Lynxliege_Set

Better not be shitting me you dragonigger.

>you can dragon sight onto yourself now
N-NANIIIII?!!!

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CnS is a typo, the damage values are equivalent to 450 potency

It has come to my attention that some of you don't like the changes we made to the Scholar Job.
Please enjoy.

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What do you even do during the 80% of the fight where you don't have to heal?

>Perfect Balance delay
eeeh?

I accepted my fate so I burned my book and killed my fairy. I've embraced the dragoon lifestyle now and can stand in every circle.

These SCH whiners are worse than the ones asking for Male Viera

>the king momo sama said sch is now even more amazing than stormblood
Yea Forumsros confirmed shitters

am I missing something? gnb has a 3 hit combo that uses ammo for each continuation but they can only store 2 ammo max?

>Healers are really out here up in arms that they have to actually heal and not just be a dps faggot with 20% of the abilities
I hope Yoshi nerfs you niggas again.

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based

I dps by keeping dots up and using miasma II for weaving ogcds as needed then broiling forever afterward. Just because I use my job's full kit doesn't mean I think it's interesting enough to keep around.

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How dare you insult me you insolent peasant?! We were driven into the cold and the darkness but we became something more. If I should become that which I hate then so be it. I shall.. become the Primal of men.

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Its just the SCH and some ASTs unhappy about new cards.

I can't tell if it's just shitposting or if Yea Forums really doesn't know jack shit about healer dps uptime

4.4

the fun in playing a healer should be healing, not being a dps with a heal you throw out every now and then.

if you want that play dancer

Read the tooltips

I'm gonna say the C word.

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>picks healer role
>complains about having to heal
nani?

1 week ago, i've got a lot of catching up to do

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Pretty sure your empire is gonna kill you for that buddy.

Then again, Gaius was never a smart man

>picks healer role
>falls asleep midfight

>doesn't play healers and doesn't understand why people are mad
why do you even voice your opinion when you don't know what you're talking about?

how is that the healer's fault?
incoming damage isn't enough to justify full-time healing
you only NEED to throw one out here and there

Howd my monk and summoner turn out?

Really just fags who don't play healer and think healerd should babysit their ass all day everyday when they take avoidable damage.

literally 11 days ago. it's been great fun. started as Archer going on Bard, dipping into a lot of the crafting. level 40 can't wait to play black mage.

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3.5

I hit cap a week or two after stormblood launch

stop trying. its 100% impossible for dps mains to grasp how an optimal healer plays in ffxiv

>I've never played a healer in my life, here's my worthless opinion
I accept your confession.

Cute!

1.0

he said its going to be strong but as boring as taking a shit though

logical improvement, no real big reworks, just more shit and faster

Not even an AST main and I think the new cards sucks.
But on the bright side I'll be a lot more confident trying the job out in 5.0. Looks a ton easier now.

god i hate scholar mains whiny faggots the lot of you

Less than a week ago, still deciding if I should rush through the story to catch up or just chill and level my side jobs and do duty

nobody is complaining about needing to heal you dumb dragoon faggot. No fight requires you to spam heals or will ever require you to spam heals because the average player is bad and couldn't handle it. Now instead of shit healers being the ones that just afk doing nothing between heals while the good ones dps all healers get to afk.

reverting the healing requirements back at A3S' level would unironically shut every healer's mouth and solve every problem

They’re both okay
DPS in general didn’t get cucked too much apparently

Healer is going to be insta-queue my friend. Come join me.

>oh no I don't get to apply this useless fucking DoT anymore! My class is RUINED!
I wouldn't say shit if all of you weren't such whiny little bitches.

This shit is my favorite limit break to this day. Is the animation for gunbreaker at least similar? I don´t expect an out of orbit beam, but at least making giant blade of light would be cool enough. Also, gunbreaker will never have Lionheart as tanks limit breaks are that shitty defense buff that noone uses and it hurts me everyday knowing this

anyone posting that they played 1.0 is lying unless they post the tattoo

>homogenize cards so they're all used
>somehow this is worse than when they all had "flavor" but the only flavor that mattered was an expanded balance

my only complaint is they could have done more with the Solar/Lunar/Celestial seal thing than use it on a buff that's on a 3 minute cooldown.

>Pld not above drk and gnb

>started as Archer going on Bard
>level 40 can't wait to play black mage.

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Bahamut Prime and Alexander Prime both required tank LB3 at first, and Byakko uses it in a strategy.

We get it WHMkun, no need to post same thing 5 times in the same thread.
You'll never be viable, no matter how much they nerf SCH and AST

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paladin is above drk on that dudes list m8

>is a Rogue, not even a Ninja
At least Alphinaud did us the favor of upgrading to a scholar

imagine if your toolkit was pruned to 5 buttons, 3 of which were boringly overpowered
the other 2 do dps

It's the exact same shit, but now you don't half half your card being fucking useless. If anything just change some of them to give crit and speed instead.

It's the final one in the job video:
youtube.com/watch?v=jaGxC7wnBDo

Most groups also use tank LB twice in O11s

>We get it WHMkun
sorry im not a healer cuck like yourself

>be healer pre ShB
>99% of healing is done through oGCDs while GCDs and some oGCDs are used for several different damage abilities
>be healer in ShB
>99% of healing is done through oGCDs while GCDs are spent on pressing the same single-target damage spell and a single dot that's refreshed sometimes
Fuck those healers for not wanting to heal I can't believe it.

scholars seething still! how long u think this will last bros?

We'd still get blamed for lacking dps.

Does he have a fairy or does he still use the special carbuncle?

It's less so that they had unique effects and more so that there existed useless cards. Having useless cards is great for two reasons
>Makes it like a slot machine so when you land a balance it feels good instead of expected
>Forces you to utilize other tools in your kit to manage bad RNG when you get fucked
Most of the complaints about healing have to do with playstyle.

Let my empire crucify me. Hydaelyn couldn't kill me so it makes so difference. The warrior of light is an ally but also a farce. He does not understand what must be done to rule in the new world.

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>2nd tank LB
first is whatever but christ that 2nd one is fucking retarded

about 2 months when people will realize that sch is still incredibly strong and needs to be brought in your party

It's not about effectiveness you dumb nigger.

I can't wait until they actually go through with increasing healing checks and clear rates plummet because people can barely heal fights as it is.

We already know that scholar is going to be incredibly strong. That doesn't mean they aren't boring as shit

hey healercucks just play RDM since its what you dumbasses want in a job it seems

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you are not lacking dps, you are lacking fun in doing dps now (if you are a sch, whm and ast are pretty much unchanged)
it's different

It works pretty well if your party is too lazy to do the mechanic, which I understand.

Wow, 3 instances in the whole game where it´s acceptable to use then!?

Pretty cool, but could be a little slower to give a heavier impact feel

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AST KEKSHED

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it's more like the dissidia version, small and fast.

I will be healing with gcds only and there is nothing you can do to stop me.

>no ogcd heals
No! I want to dps nonstop for free!!

There isn't a single scholar out there concerned about our healing power because now we outheal White Mages WITHOUT help of a fairy, every single complaint stems from the fact that the job is going to be boring to play with a streamlined dps rotation.

>dots and broil spam is fun
No it isn't, retards.

Yoshida pls go

>AST and WHM
>Several different damage abilities.

>useless fucking DoT

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I called it when viera were announced that any white one is going to be worse than even the worst cats and lizards.

>play AST
>still boiled down to Malefic and Combustion
Only thing i lost was Lord of Crowns.

CPM
P
M

would they be happy if they got miasma back and bio, broil and ruin 2 were all nerfed to compensate?

fflogs.com/reports/9fMvVmGj7tB3h1wT#fight=14&type=casts&source=4

kek tell that dumb fuck to just quest as summoner

He still has his white carbuncle

Of course it works, it wouldn't be done otherwise. It's still retarded and makes the fight take longer for the sake of not dealing with it.
I equate it to the T2 10m wait because rot is too hard.

Stay in your lane bitch.

>oh the horror, we are still the best healer but now our dps isn't also the best

>he started playing in 4.0
I'm sorry you missed out

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>couldn't join Gaius
Lame

They're the same shit
That is to say trash

>play whm
>dps is literally stone and aero
>now scholar gets to feel the pain
get fucked

>20% reduced MP cost

also remember that changes could come in 5.0 and 5.0.1(raid introduction)
remember sch and smn at the start of stormblood?

You dungeon hero

he's literally our ally now

The healers don’t need simple changes

They flat out need more damage spells

It has chain strategem and the most healing ogcds, sch will bring the most damage

At least SMN is fun now

why do you need MORE damage spells? all they are is a new coat of paint for a button. you are a fucking healer you do not need a full dps kit and a full healing kit.

Even just 1 proc filler spell and bringing back aoe dots would be enough.

Sometimes before Stormblood. I finally slogged through the pre-HW hell and reached HW on Stormblood launch day.
So when it was Stormblood explansion launch for everyone else, it was actually HW launch for me, lol. At least by the time I reached Raubahn, it had been fixed a long time ago, but I remember everyone was complaining about it in NN lmao.

I wonder what her knives smell like

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>oh god I can only press four buttons in a row instead of ten to deal no damage
My heart is truly breaking in half for all the scholar mains. Still gonna roast you when you can't meet the new healing requirements tho.

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Healsluts will finally learn their places
You are a tool, act like it

they have the best dps and the best healing
the complaint is that the dps portion is fucking sleep-inducing brainlessness now

So healing might actually get hard? Maybe I'll resub after all

hey scholars i found your dps spec, its called summoner you get it free!

You don't play healer, so you wouldn't understand, that's why.

>You shouldn't have fun playing healer
You stupid niggers deserve be hanged from the nearest tree.

>why don't the devs let me have an entire healing kit and a dps kit, it's not fair :c
You faggots are honest to god the most entitled fucks I have ever seen.

>I play healer to DPS!!!!
Holy shit fucking healer mains are retarded

Yeah thats my point
they can fuck off, other healing classes have been like this forever

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dumb frogposter
SCH has the highest healing output of all healer jobs now

And SMN has heal too!

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kek fucking based

>lol let's everyone feel like shit instead of looking to make it better for myself
You're a maximum faggot and I don't even main SCH.

>Our Gunblades are going to be some gay furry Hrothgar bullshit
>Not superior Garlean gunswordsamanship in-line with Gaius and Regula

Fuck off

Healing itself is piss easy. I can meet any healing requirements in my sleep which is good because the hardest thing about healing now is staying awake.

fuckign owned

>SCH mains unironically think this
would love to see them play an actual dps that uses more than 5 buttons.

You know that SCH is still going to be meta?

Stopped playing during 4.1, how long would it take me to get get the MSQ for 4.2 onwards done for Shadowbringer?

>blows an aetherflow to top everyone off
>pops a free recitation succor to megashield the party
now what do I do for the next 30 seconds?
hit one fucking button, that's what
it's garbage

guy stop bullying the scholars im scared they might do something drastic! like flood their houses with tears and drown!

In my eyes anyone staying constantly subbed and playing the gear threadmill is doing it wrong.
The only correct way to play this game is to sub to clear MSQ, do new dungeons or normal raids, then unsub, only resub when enough content dropped that it takes at least a month to go through them.
Anyone doing the gear threadmill in this day and age is just a fucking idiot.

That's why people play healer in this game

I started playing in 3.4, along with a couple friends. Another friend of mine had already been playing for a while, and I guess that's how we got roped into it.

I'm fucking pissed about ShB Scholar.

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>look mom I posted it again
Scholars just can't stop outing themselves tonight.

>Not dabbing on the lion/ronso clones by pretending to be a Garlean

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nigger it's objective fact
sacred soil is fucking busted now

Dunno who it is, but I'm sure he will since anyone decent at the job is going to be jumping ship.
>unironically praising lowering the skill ceiling
Yea Forums is the only place you'll find people being elitist about being casual.
Wouldn't get your hopes up, anything beyond Savage final fights and Ultimates are probably still going to be piss easy.

so let me get this straight
>scholar mains still claim they have the highest dps and hps
>still crying about the changes
jesus christ

Wow didn't know you got to play the new savage content early, user. Want to drop some info for us?

I am certain you can provide actual math to disprove that claim, can't you, user?
You aren't just talking shit without knowing anything about healer changes now, are you?

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being the best in both means nothing if the job is boring as fuck to play
I liked the complexity

meanwhile WHM

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If you can't even fucking read you might as well not post, fag.

>pressing ten buttons in a row is skillful!
I understand you stay in the healer cuckshed because you can't handle a real class, but this is just embarrassing.

>durrr I roll a healer because I like to dps

>Can guarantee crit barriers, which although the crit shield can't be spread, is still stronger because adlo was buffed to 125% shields
>can probably stack barriers with Seraph
>Sacred Soil has regen now too, making it better Asylum

Savage and ultimates are easy already, though. Especially healing-wise.
Meh, maybe if I get invited to a group that isn't completely braindead and won't wipe on the same trivial mechanic 2 hours in a row.

You never played healer, got it, you can shut the fuck up now.

>dps mains are absolute brainlets who don't understand anything about healers in xiv
>Yea Forums is actually full of casual retards praising lowering the skill ceiling

go figure

>potencies and numbers are final
>even though they've been changed after the reveal for every expansion now
Looks like you both sport the IQ I've come to know and love in my healers. I'm sure one day you'll nail down pattern recognition.

>all these people shitting on healers

Enjoy those queues dps and tank fags o-oh wait OH NO NO NO NO NO HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

its going to be impossible to find 3 other actual players to run shb dungeons with

why are you replying to me
that was my point
sacred soil is a massive regen with 50% uptime
that's fucking busted
it even offers a free succ a fifth of the time

ME NO HEALER ME GREEN DPS!

>maybe if I get invited
doing it wrong

i know, I was listing some nice shit SCH got on top of that but all SCHfags care about is muh deeps

run them with your fc or static

Why would you voice your opinion to people who dont know anything about it ?

Tanks dont give a fuck
DPS dont give a fuck
this is all you niggers and even then not 100% of you are with you. go try to convince them not us who don't like being put into a position of submissiveness.

This is pretty good bait

>*plays through dungeons with story characters*
Heh, nothin personal healers. Guess I'll see you during the raid. Don't forget to have your hotbars set up for that DPS """"rotation""""

t. never played a healer and never cleared savage anything

Nah keep going, I enjoy sch tears. Shouldn't have shitposted for so long about WHM

You will never find healers to raid with

Based

the reason theyre upset is just because they want to feel like they're better than everyone else

>i heal AND do complicated dps rotation. i play a hard job so you all better be impressed

they're mad because they can't do that anymore

I wonder what this hyper aggressive anti scholar poster's preferred job is

Yes, to the surprise of no one, managing multiple dots objectively takes more skill than pressing one button over and over again.
I've mostly mained NIN and am probably going to be forced into the healer role, that's why I'm pissy.
>that isn't completely braindead and won't wipe on the same trivial mechanic 2 hours in a row.
Good luck, even groups I've joined with mostly oranges seem incapable of that.

because the healing kit was perfect as it was
it didn't need to be made more powerful
the dps portion of the job was what needed more stuff

>tfw I’m a healer main no matter what and all these mains ragequitting means that I will have an easy time finding people to do content with

It’s actually amazing. I’m not even good enough to do Savage but now tanks and dps will be begging me to join them

I play all healers, mostly WHM, so you're wasting your time.

SCH tears always taste better for some reason.

Thanks. I'm honestly surprised how easy it is to bait healers now. They seem pretty upset.

You have the audacity to ask me to heal for you in raids after treating me like garbage?!
As if!!

Attached: poutywhm.png (980x1313, 443K)

Why did they make GNB the only tank with more than one combo?

Are you a fucking retard? This is an anonymous imageboard. If you don't want to talk to the healers don't reply to healer posts.

Because pressing 2 more different buttons in a specified pattern was a lot of skill, and ED totally wasn't a noob trap 50% of the time outside of Dissipation and openers, and Embrace totally had to be macro-mashed to be useful.
Yeah, SCHs never change.