These threads have quality discussion sometimes so lets see if we can get some going
Do y'all think the Fishing Hamlet you visit in the Nightmare is the actual village that the church sent Maria to, transported into the Nightmare so she could protect it? Or is it just a representation of the Hamlet, and Maria, like Brador, is just protecting the secret?
Bloodborne lore
Juan Wilson
Henry Richardson
Personally I dont think theres enough proof in the game to point to either but Id love to see some evidence either way
Christopher Cook
Fug I shouldve made the OP a picture of Amelia or something huh?
Brody Wilson
At first I think the Hamlet has its own version in the real world just like how the Hunter's dream is just another version of the Hunter's Workshop. But then I remember that the Hamlet is right outside the Astral Clocktower. The Clocktower is the same building that has Ebrietas in the basement, I believe.
So it shouldn't make sense for the Hamlet to be physically next to the clocktower when applied to the normal(or at least the closest to normal) plane of existence. So either the Hamlet does still exist in the real world but in an another location entirely, or it really can only be accessed through the Hunter's Nightmare. But I believe there's still a version of it outside the Hunter's Nightmare, like in the comics.
Bentley Torres
>Fishing Hamlet you visit in the Nightmare is the actual village that the church sent Maria to
Yes.
The way Nightmares work (and this is literally conveyed to you as soon as you start The Old Hunters) is that they seemingly replicate areas, a distorted projection, of the Waking World. The Fishing Hamlet, the Research Hall, the Grand Cathedral, Oedon's Chapel, etc, are all 1:1 projections of the Waking World.
Jace Stewart
I actually feel bad for Kos.
Christopher Miller
Please inform me how this is "literally conveyed to you"
Justin Barnes
Because the Nightmare is a distorted, fucked up copy of Yharnam. You wake up in the Cahtedral and pass old areas. You're even transported there by an Amygdala who usually take you to other nightmare areas like the Frontier.
Mason Fisher
Obviously the Nightmare can defy physics when you consider the location of the Hamlet beyond the Clocktower. I don't think that indicates anything about the Hamlet itself, however.
Carter Taylor
As for Maria her consciousness, despite her apparent suicide, was doomed to be in the Hunter's Nightmare. She, along with all the people involved in the massacre, and all the hunters drunk with blood proceeding the event, were cursed to be trapped there.
Is the Oedon's Chapel of Hunter's Nightmare ripped from the Waking World? No. It's still there in Yharnam when you return. Same with the Grand Cathedral.
Ryan Taylor
Thats not a literal conveyance at all, thats just your interpretation of events
Blake Carter
I dont know why you think theres such strict rules in a realm of reality labeled a nigtmare
You can make all the conjecture you want based on in game assets but im more interested in the explicit
Gavin Lee
I dont think Maria ever became blood drunk. I think she killed herself in order to create and enter the nightmare.
Justin Roberts
The research hall doesnt exist outside of the nightmare (at least not in current yharnam)
Luke Cook
I think both cases are possible, since there is some evidence that both do happen. The Hunter's Dream is based on the old Hunter's Workshop, but isn't the Workshop itself "transported" into a higher realm. But the Mensis College apparently was "sucked" into the Nightmare. IIRC there is no longer a "real-world" equivalent of the Mensis College since it was transported away; but we can assume that the Nightmare of Mensis was either only based in reality or a creation of the nightmare, since Micolash's body is not in a space relevant to that structure or place.
Personally, I think that the Hunter's Nightmare is in full its own location, including the Research Hall, Astral Clocktower, and the Fishing Hamlet. I believe it's possible that the Hunter's Nightmare is merely "connected" with the real-world, teleported Research Hall, but the game seems to phrase such a thing with a high achievement that rarely happens. Even if it does, consider that so little space was taken with the Mensis College, and all those within were transformed into monsters. The Research Hall, Clocktower, and the Fishing Hamlet seem to be very "real," and not something ripped apart and taken from elsewhere. They're more like vivid memories that have been reconstructed in the dream, because they occupy so much space and integrate themselves so well, unlike the College which seems to be just in a "void."
It would be cool if they got rid of their crimes by hiding them in another dimension, but something like that seems that it would require power equivalent to some of the highest gods in the universe. Consider how much effort it took just to get Ebrietas into our world, let alone to send entire cities outside of our dimension.
The Fishing Hamlet also has a "dreamy" aspect in that it's above the Hunter's Nightmare.
Jaxson Phillips
But it wouldn't make sense for the Grand Cathedral from Yharnam be physically ripped into the Hunter's Nightmare, because it is still there. A better explanation for it is that Nightmares replicate or form projections from the Waking World. If you want explicit, here's another example: the Hunter's Workshop. One is in Yharnam, the other was "conceived", i.e. replicated.
Levi Rivera
For further explanation, a 1:1 replication of the waking world isn't the actual place, and there likely isn't any 1:1 replications, since everything we can find in the real world looks the same only in fundamentals. The Hunter's Nightmare and the Yharnam Chapel District don't look all that much alike due to the environment, stone, sand, blood, and the like. But, the school that the Mensis Scholars were from was transported out of our world and into the nightmare. The nightmare college you enter isn't a "replication," it's the original structure, but it now only exists in the dream world, since it was removed from the waking world to bring it there.
Alexander Garcia
My mistake
I didn't mean to imply that anywhere else in the Nightmare is "ripped" from the living world, just the Hamlet
Thats what i meant by strict rules
So most locations are just twisted copies but the Hamlet, like the School of Mensis, was transported into the Nightmare, maybe
Carter Richardson
I always thought the Hamlet was a distorted version of the real-world Hamlet. We just get to see it because this is the nightmare of the Old Hunters and Maria is there as punishment like the other hunters.
Grayson Garcia
>The nightmare college you enter isn't a "replication," it's the original structure
Yeah, forgot about this.
So I guess both can happen.
Either it is a projection or straight up ripped physically from the Waking World.
Aiden Morales
anyone else think that the moon presence was originally going to be mergo?
Mason Perez
I thought the Moon Presence was Oedon
Anthony Green
Everything is just Nyarlathotep fucking with people across dream dimensions.
If you fight him and "win"(he actually just gets tired and bails) he locks you in the dream world and transmogrifies you into a great one because he's fucking Nyarlathotep.
DO NOT QUESTION ME
Say something nice about my cat.
Thomas Hughes
Nah, Oedon has no form. I think it's more likley MP is a rival
Gabriel Sanchez
what a handsome boy Niggerman is
Nathan Edwards
Thank you, m'lady.
Parker Green
What's the cat's name?
Thomas Bennett
WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE!?
Jeremiah Peterson
Love me some willie nelson
Would you believe he voices this motherfucker?