Why did the Dwemer poof out of existence?

>An Elder Scroll put them into a time-space lock, and they will be unceremoniously get puked out at some random point in the future
So after Elder scrolls VI Fails we will get an Elder Scrolls Game in the future Next Gen where it's all about Dwemer returning and you as a hero have to save the world or join them and retake the world with them.

They realized that Lorkhan and Mundus were a mistake.

>elder scrolls 6 takes place while the dwarves are slowly getting plopped back into random parts of Tamriel
>still have all their wacky steampunk tech
>no knowledge of what's happened since they vanished
>game explores how they deal with their reappearance as well as how this new influx of people and technology impacts Tamriel
do it Todd

Sounds gay. Their disappearance should never be explained. I’d be fine with a prequel that takes place before they poofed, though.

This right here. The Elder Scrolls world is a literal dream.

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They messed with the gods and daedra so they didn't have any allies except science

>after Elder scrolls VI Fails
heh
i remember being this naive

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Their disappearance literally is already explained though you mong, and even if you don't accept any of the explanations them coming back doesn't have to explain the initial disappearance anyway

they tried to put their tools in the heart of lorkhan and build a metal man, and that's just not done, that doesn't work, so they were completely snuffed out. it makes sense, there are no bloody dwemer in elder scrolls, just their machines, the machines didn't belong to them, they belonged to Lorkhan, so when in their arrogance they thought to build a metal man with the tools lorkhan gave them from his heart, poof, that just wasn't happening. so that means they never really existed in the first place because their existence and actions are completely paradoxical to the nature of mundus as dictated by the creation of mundus by lorkhan's heart. the machine world of the dwemer is sort of an in between world that manifests as the realisation of lorkhan's authority by going against it. it's ;literally an anomaly, and the history the dwemer apparently left behind was always there, but the dwemer never were.

the dwemer never really existed on mundus, or in the realms of the aedra. the dwemer ruins are like demiurge.

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>want to be remade as gods.
>acquire elder scrolls
>unmake yourself
>
>

that too

They didn't want to be gods, they wanted to delete the gods and then remake the entire game in FRACTRAN. Those fucking autists

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>Dwemer built the Numidium to reach Aetherius, akin to The Tower of Babel reaching heaven
>tore open a portal into Oblivion
>ascended into unknown place and time
thats it

what about that one fat masturbator under tel fyr

>Their disappearance should never be explained

It was explained in Morrowind lad

all the advanced engineering and industry of the dwemer is basically just a creative manifestation by the aedra realm of the player that demonstrates the inability of the physical game world to create itself by its own agency, i.e. the dwemer putting their designs on the heart of lorkhan with their tools, the metal man they tried to create is metaphor for that, lorkhan heart is the game world, the player's (aedra) consciousness incarnate in the game world, as the game world only exists by the player, (aedra) hence the dragonborn/nerevar/champion of cyrodiil etc as avatars of the aedra, their lives dictated by the stars the player lives by in the game.

might be cool. But the series has relied on the MASSIVE RANDOM WORLD EVENT for the past 2 games.

He wasn't in Tamriel at the time

This should have /thread

Reminder to Lorelets that Dwemer became the skin and flesh and soul of their artificial god Numidium. It was used as a weapon because without the core (the heart of Lorkhan, the god of creation) different people at different times used the souls of Shezzarines to drive it around like a war machine, which is probably the worst use you can give to an artificial god machine.

It would be ironic if they would return as servants of Jyggalag. The race that believed in scientific order and reason would be enslaved to the god of order.

Is turning into a god and deleting a bunch of autistic city states a good use?

what, so he was some kind of intervention by the aedra? for what purpose?

Because the "god" machine didn't have any more powers beyond that. It was just dwarven hubris thinking they created god when in fact it was just another muppet like the steam centurions but with a different power source.

Tamriel is just a continent dude

ah i see, yet another anomaly to the game world, and manifestation of aedra authority.

no you're incontinent.

He was one of the rare dwarves that explored different spheres simliar to conjurers like Fyr. He was lucky that it happened when he was in a different sphere of oblivion.

I always assumed they "woke up" from the dream that is the elder scrolls universe. Zero sum, if you will.

Nah heart of Lorkhan power still lives on Morrowind.The volcanic rocks from the volcano create hostile life all the way to Solstheim.

Who know what the fuck is going on in the depths of Morrowind.

No, Yagrum was exploring Oblivion/Aetherius at the time so he wasn't in range when Kagrenac doomed his own race

ha, "luck."

no he's only their because it's a game, and he's only their because the player starts the game by the stars.

amphetaminebinge

There is agency in Numidium, it embodies the Nihilistic Desire for the dwemer to undo the lie of reality. The instances where Numidium breaks free with Lorkhan Juice running in its veins, it goes on a divine rampage that registers on the Pelinal scale of genocide and then fucks off to another dimension entirely becoming a mythological threat that maybe one day it will come back to wreck shit. In C0DA it's been slowly undoing creation and Mundus is a half broken mess because gods have been crashing against it for centuries until someone kills it with a speech balloon

but kagrenac could not doom his own race. that's the idea, the vanishing of the dwemer is a demonstration of the authority of the aedra. the dwemer machines that are left are a physical manifestation of both the aedra's authority over mundus and the mortal beings lack of authority over mundus.

big weed

not you again. fuck off.

>A creature with 100 luck is the last living Dwemer, Yagrum Bagarn (he must have been very lucky to survive). This makes it hard to hit him with attacks or spells.
Still has nothing on based gaenor with 770 luck.

>In C0DA
Michael it's time to stop. It will never me canon, go back to the CHIMvan

>no elder scroll or time related artifacts involved
>LMAO TIME TRAVEL
fuck off with this retarded shit

wood elves are a curse.

We do not know, we have different opinion from different writers.
One of them is that Dwemer are Numidium now.

Not true, Heart of Lorkhan didn't exist until the Dwemer made it.
They made Heart of Lorkhan material through tonal architecture.

>Heart of Lorkhan didn't exist until the Dwemer made it.
AHAHAHAHAHA the Orc lore LITERALLY tells you that Trinimac chopped Lorkhan into pieces and scattered it around Mundus.

it is already canon, there are three new books in Elder Scrolls online that literally reference C0DA
and by reference I mean that one of them is a new vivec sermon from time after Amaranth happens
ESO is canon, that has been confirmed, but even if you do not believe that, TES VI will also reference C0DA because Kurt Kuhlmann is the lead game designer of TES since skyrim and he is best friend of MK and also as much of a pothead metafag

>Elder Scrolls online
Confirmed to be a different world to the mainline TES.

I don't care about what Orc lore says.
Demonstrably in Morrowind you have to free Heart of Lorkhan from it's corporeal state. It did not exist in the state we see it in Morrowind until Dwemer made it that way.
The fight in early Dawn was metaphysical, things were becoming material only then. The "code" of heart of lorkhan was there, but a form of a literal heart of something that was created with Tonal Tools, and freed with Tonal Tools.

...

in a sense they did make the heart of lorkhan, but only in part with lorkhan in his creation of mundus, so when they tried to put their own designs on it separate from lorkhan and build a machine god that lived by its own power, the paradox of such an act put them out of existence forever, so really they were part of the creation of the heart of lorkhan, but only as lorkhan. the dwemer never really existed, all the dwemer ruins are lorkhan's demonstration of aedra authority over the mortal realm, by the purely mythical account of the dwemer that is written into the fabric of mundus. there is no actual history to mundus, the world of mundus begins and ends with the aedra, and beyond that, the player who is guided by the stars of the aedra in his intervention on mundus (i.e. the player playing the game).

>It did not exist in the state we see it in Morrowind until Dwemer made it that way.
Did Dwemer also build Messer and Secunda i.e the BODY of Lorkhan too? Just stop you retard.

No, it's not, why would you just lie like that on the internet?
I know people from Bethesda, since release of ESO they have literally made an inhouse archive of lore, ESO obviously included. There are great efforts to standartize lore and ESO is part of it. That helps me know you are a bullshitter.
But who cares for my anecdotal evidence, you won't find a single drop of info that says that ESO is non canon lore or that it is a difference "world".

Motherfucker Trinimac tore the Heart right out of his chest in the battle of creation and Auriel shot it with a bow into Mundus. The impact caused Red Mountain, his corpse are the two moons. His soul is the breath of Mundus putting together all the pieces into the whole of creation upon which he rules through the many Shezzarines that reincarnate over and over.

They reached complete euphoria, and tipped their fedoras while taking a hit from their vapes.

It's fucking coldharbour we get it.

Something I wonder about ESO is have they given a better explanation to the contradictions and differences between the portrayal of provinces and races in lore to what it is shown ingame?

Masser and Secunda are not literally bodies of Lorkhan, they are also Jone and Jode which seem to be completely different Ada from Lorkhan while the enigmatic "third moon" is implied to be the actual body of Lorkhan.
That being said this is irrelevant because Planes are not actually planets, they are dimensions, yet mortals see them that way. The same way Heart of Lorkhan is not what people think it is.
I understand what you are saying, but additionally to that Aedra themselves are nothing but facets of Anui-El and Sithis. That being said this is a very reductionist argument since if you bring it to that low level metaphysically nothing is nothing and everything is everything in TES.

>Masser and Secunda are not literally bodies of Lorkhan
Yes they are just like the rest of the planets are the nine divines.

How do Imperials go from hardcore Divine worshipping to Alessian Zealots to Daedra cocksucking tryhards in the span of a century?

Me too.

What do you not understand about it being metaphysical and not material.
The battle that was happening in dawn wasn't bunch of giant dudes punching each other, it was living concepts warping and fucking each other in a time before time was even fully linear.
Regardless, you misunderstand what I am saying. Red Mountain exists because Heart of Lorkhan fell there, but the form we see Heart of Lorkhan in Morrowind is a form stabilized by Dwemer through Tonal Architecture, when you punch it with keening and sunder you free the Heart of Lorkhan into it's unbound state. This is not me making up shit, replay the game.

Divines aren't literally planets, do you understand this?
They are manifestations of the spheres of Aedra. Akatosh is the planet Akatosh, the avatar of Akatosh that we saw in Oblivion and every Dragon at the same time. He isn't just the planet nor is said planet literally a planet.

Not everything is a metaphysical interpretation or manifestation of belief you doofus. The Dawn Era was just as real and concrete, there's even the tower where the gods gathered, sat the fuck around a goddamn table and discussed what they were going to do about the whole problem that creation was. There were battles and armies and roaming bands of gods and celestials melting into nothingness as they became one with mundus.

Also isn't ebony his blood?

and yet with infinite ways of telling the story. if you look at the es games, it's the same story over and over told differently. what do you think the emperor means when he frees you from prison and tells you that you are the one from his dreams, and that he has never been the ruler of his own dreams, before being cut down by the cult that rebels against player authority and tries to assert its own pseudo authority, only for it to be snuffed out through the events of the story in the game's programming initiated by the player. if you look at everything that occurs through the main quest, and the idea of the illegitimate son who dabbled in daedra worship and who is sacrificed to become a frozen winged statue of a dragon, and what it all says about free agency in the game world as opposed to player agency, the only true agency, it all becomes clear. everything in the game is a reflection of this truth.

You need to read your lore man. Even if the fight even was metaphysical the heart Physically crashed into nirn and created Red mountain.

And why can't your simple brain understand the fact that during creation the divines were trapped in material bodies which ARE the planets. You only see them on mundus as avatars projected from their actual physical bodies which are the planets. That's why they can be killed because they exist in physical form.

Give examples of what you mean and I can try to find specific lore.
That literally never happened. The imperial temple didn't exist until Alessia so the worship of "Divines" is lesser form of Alessian zealotry. All religions prior to that were mostly ancestor worships of various form, Ehlnofey worship and totemic worship. The most worshiped deities were commonly the biggest Aedra obviously but the idea of a rigid cult with 8 Divines is purely Alessian concoction and partially a political decision.
Imperials never worshiped Daedra, only some weird cults and enigmatic figures have. Sometimes said figures gain power and do fucked up Daedric shit on a large scale, this is not surprising in any way considering that it happens everywhere.

Arniel Gane could probably explain. Too bad he poofed as well.

Ebony is the literal blood of Lorkhan, yes.

>Elder scrolls VI
>failing
Retards will completely eat that shit up. Just wait after the E3 Bethesda conference when every corner of the Internet will be covered with "I just preordered 7 copies guise"

Even Mundus was not fully material back then, the crash happened and the red mountain formed but it was a lot more esoteric than that.
Look at Heart of Lorkhan, with gears and valves and a weird forcefield around it. Whatever state Heart of Lorkhan was in Morrowind was not it's natural state and when we fuck with it we are told that it has been freed.
I do not understand what you are arguing about.
Their planes are their manifestation in a physical form, but they are more than their manifestation in a physical form. You are not just your hand, do you understand?
Consider the following, an aspect of the Dragon God, Auri-El, has literally escaped back to Aetherius.
Do you think it would be possible to do if all they were, were the planets?
Aedra just like all Et'Ada are all encompassing concepts with spheres of influence.

it's arguable that blood of any God can turn into ebony, though ebony on mundus is lorkhan

Being able to escape coldharbour comes to mind.
Imperial city and imperials in general being Molag Bal fanboys. (granted this was around the launch days when they did that free trial and might've been retconned to fuck)
I recall there being a book written in that second era that was a correction to a third era book that explained how Cyrodiil was a jungle.
High elf cities made of solid light and glass that refracted and split the light into colors like wings of dragonflies.
Flying airships. Moon Colonies. Giant moths. All sorts of magical flying nonsense in the Second Era.
Bosmer cities that move around and are not really cities at all.
Different Khajiit states or nomadic clans at war with each other, at some point coagulating into two warrying kingdoms.

Wouldn't that make the idea itself of the dwemer also disappear?

>Do you think it would be possible to do if all they were, were the planets?
Yeah because the hole left by the escaping Magnus is a perfect sphere. You might even say the true form of every spirit was that of a sphere i.e similar to a planet. What now loremaster?

I can already see the threads of people posting their mountains of snacks. People will Toddpost and have a laugh.
Then when it comes out, it will be praised like crazy. Eventually it will get the Fallout 4 treatment and people will say that is not that good, but not bad (of course it will be bad).
I pray to god that I am wrong.

no, because the idea is all that the dwemer are, an idea dreamt up by the aedra when the player starts the game..

oh what the fuck..

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Nah you are just head canon sperg refusing to actually read the books in game.

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So did Lorkhan trick the Aedra or not?

Yes. Even his defeat at their hand was part of his plan.

yes and no. but what is the trick?

Does anybody even say he didn't? My lorebeard is not very long yet

This is ESO lore stuff, I've spent literal years shitposting about shitty ESO lore on various ESO related lore forums so please don't start arguing how good or bad the lore I will reply is
I know most of it is bad, that's just what it is
>Being able to escape coldharbour comes to mind.
Vestige is some weird ass retarded frankestein of a man. Soul seems to consist of at least three parts, well at least three of them are relevant over the series. Animus, a thing that is tied to your form and your magicka storage, your memory and your Anuic remnant which seems to be the same as AE.
Molag Bal stole your Anuic remnant, and filled your soul with azure plasm, essence from Oblivion, which changed your animus to be like that of a Daedra. So at the start of a game you are basically an empty husk of a shitty Daedra with some residual chunks of human soul. Then you absorb a Skyshard and your soul gets filled with Aetherial energy which somehow interacts with your mortal part of the soul making you a special "Get out of jail" card mortal that gets all the benefits of being a mortal and being a Daedra without any of the negatives. This includes the ability to destroy your body and rematerialize if you die..which is conveniently the form of teleportation you use when you use the wayshrines and also seems to be the way you got out of Coldharbour.

Surprisingly with all of Bethesda and Todd's retardation, the Dwarves coming back is the one thing that will never happen. Todd himself said the idea was stupid. However that was years ago and maybe the soul crushing experience of working for zenimax eroded all love for the series he had left.

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The Dwemer dabbed to hard on the g*ds and got heavily dabbed on in return

Yes, no and maybe.
Because Elder Scrolls is a hallucination of a Dreaming God.
Things are as logical as they are inside of Azathos head. The only reason why things even remotely make sense is because of Ehlnofey and Lorkhan. Even then it's just farce, a layer of reality that is hiding the truth beneath.

youtu.be/SziNEinx4Yc

so..what are you saying the dwemer literally smoked everything? i mean they lit up a bong, and inhaled and then everything just disappeared, and they're floating in eternity in some totally empty void, while nirn exists totally devoid of the dwemer. holy shit.

The hole is also not literal, nor is it two dimensional. It's a spherical hole.
I hope you are not imagining Mundus as a giant baloon with holes in it
Okay, I could probably cite more sources for you on any gives TES related lore topic, but sure
Believe whatever you want, it's not concrete anyways and is up to change depending on who is writing the game at the moment

>the soul crushing experience of working for zenimax
lol Zenimax was created by Bethesda as a shell company they don't work for Zenimax it's only used to hold newly acquired companies.

I never saw any counter-argument that he didn't. Lorewise, aside from someone screaming it's elven propaganda.

>I hope you are not imagining Mundus as a giant baloon with holes in it
not that guy but i am now desu

>It's a spherical hole.
Yeah I already said that you turbo dumbo

>wayshrines are literally the "if a teleporter destroys you and then reconstitutes the atoms later, is it still you or a different being with your memories" question
That's pretty amusing

They could. But they'll just be randomly generated events that spawn a few Elfs in dwarven armor.

So was his plan to reincarnate has a Shezarrine, and if so for what purpose? Or is that unknown?
Me neither, but I believe the religions of man say that Shezzar/Shor told the Aedra.
At what level is the "universe" a dream? If the sleeping god woke up would only Mundus Disappear, the Aedra and Daedra, or even Padomay and Anu?

I apologize for asking for so many questions.

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They discovered they were imprisoned in a video game, and tried to break through into the real world. It didn't work, and only deleted the entire race from the Bethesda dev team's hard drive. The Thalmor have reached the same conclusion centuries later, and intend to do with all of Tamriel what the Dwemer only did to themselves.

>Imperial city and imperials in general being Molag Bal fanboys. (granted this was around the launch days when they did that free trial and might've been retconned to fuck)
Essentially there is a single super important family that have a lot of soldiers working under them that made a pact with Molag Bal, that's really it, Imperials are not all Daedra worshipers nor are the majority
This is also all tied to Mannimarco
>I recall there being a book written in that second era that was a correction to a third era book that explained how Cyrodiil was a jungle.
There is a book that time traveled back in time, then there is a guy that claimed that it was a transcription era, then the same guy also claimed that Cyrodiil was never a jungle, then a lady wrote a book about how said guy is a doodoo head and it was totally a jungle and there are many magical ways to explain how it happened and that it was not a transcription error, but it is also implied that they are all wrong and it was Talos who changed it retroactively. When you fight Serpent boss in Craglorn you get to see Cyrodiil as a jungle in the background during time fuckery
>High elf cities made of solid light and glass that refracted and split the light into colors like wings of dragonflies.
No explanation really, just decided to interpret it as a lot of pretty colorful glass
This is not a bad interpretation per-say since the guy in PGE himself claims that most likely elven cities are not literally made of butterfly wings, but Zenimax delivery was just underwhelming regardless if it was accurate or not to lore.

IIRC they became the skin of numidium

yeah
>made the world.
>knew gods wouldn't allow it.
>gods get mad and rip him to metaphysical shreds.
>gods can't destroy his heart.
>they throw it to nirn hoping reality will destroy it.
>In morrowind it is destroyed but reality still exists.
>gods let Baar Dau crash to keep people off Morrowind.
>Oblivion Crisis because Daedra think without the heart they can take nirn
>Alduin attacks and can resurrect dragons from the ground.

Shit hit the fan when the heart was destroyed but its power still exist in the Heart stones, the earth and even Brair hearts. The heart has merged with the land.

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>Flying airships. Moon Colonies. Giant moths. All sorts of magical flying nonsense in the Second Era.
There is stuff related to that in later DLCs, not literally the mothships though, but even mananauts are mentioned
>Bosmer cities that move around and are not really cities at all.
just disappeared, never explained why, it is mentioned but will probably be in a DLC or something
>Different Khajiit states or nomadic clans at war with each other, at some point coagulating into two warrying kingdoms.
There is lore related to that in new Elsweyr DLC, but I do not play ESO anymore so I don't know the details too deeply.

>At what level is the "universe" a dream? If the sleeping god woke up would only Mundus Disappear, the Aedra and Daedra, or even Padomay and Anu?
Whatever is Anu, it seems to be the dreamer
Then Anu and Padomay inside of the dream are reflections of itself and it's own hatred or his brother which was in a previous dream outside of the world depending on interpretation
Basically at the deepest level it is a dream, well it isn't clear what kind of a dream it even is, more like some sort of a dream like god-state where your mind breaks down into a universe

which is a futile task which will only enslave them as they are already enslaved to the will of the player playing the game, as well as set them free. they simply are. so they simply exist to be an enemy in skyrim.

>Or is that unknown?
Most of what Gods want is speculation at best.
We only have references and old myths to go by, and sometimes odd appearances of deities and their avatars.
We don't know.

^ This

truthpilled

If Anu is the dreamer then Padomay is too, which is fucking stupid since whatever it is has been asleep while they've been busting ass. They're just the first two fragments to gain sentience.

They don't matter anymore. Same with the Chim nonsense. Nirn is self sustaining now. Yes people can still be "woke", but there are enough people supporting the dream.

Militant Atheists in a world where gods are definitely real achieve apotheosis, realize they don't exist, then poof themselves. Not hard to understand.

I don't think you understand the "dreamer dreams the world" trope user. The dreamer and the dream are symbiotic. One can't exist without the other.

Elder Scrolls lore is a whole new level of cocaine binge fever dream.

What the fuck were Todd and co. tripping on?

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>Nir became pregnant, but before she gave birth, Padomay returned, professing his love for Nir. She told him that she loved only Anu, and Padomay beat her in rage. Anu returned, fought Padomay, and cast him outside Time. Nir gave birth to Creation, but died from her injuries soon after. Anu, grieving, hid himself in the sun and slept.
This is beginning of the TES universe. Anu, Padomay and Nir are outside of the dream.
Anui-el is memory of self and therefor it is the unchanging stasis and body of the world, Sithis is the memory of Padomay and it's the ever changing all consuming emptiness and all consuming depression that consumes Anu, mixed with memories of his brother and possibly the need to get out and wake up. Lorkhan was possessed by the idea to create Nirn, the reason why he saw the Tower and the Wheel and the reason why he realized it was a dream, it was because Sithis infesed his mind with memories of Nir.
>Sithis is the start of the house. Before him was nothing, but the foolish Altmer have names for and revere this nothing. That is because they are lazy slaves. Indeed, from the Sermons, 'stasis asks merely for itself, which is nothing.'
>Sithis sundered the nothing and mutated the parts, fashioning from them a myriad of possibilities. These ideas ebbed and flowed and faded away and this is how it should have been.
>One idea, however, became jealous and did not want to die; like the stasis, he wanted to last. This was the demon Anui-El, who made friends, and they called themselves the Aedra. They enslaved everything that Sithis had made and created realms of everlasting imperfection. Thus are the Aedra the false gods, that is, illusion.
>So Sithis begat Lorkhan and sent him to destroy the universe. Lorkhan! Unstable mutant!
Anuiel is everythin and Sithis is emptyness, darkness.. Anuiel was created from the soul of Anu, Sithis appeared and infested him through Padomay.
You may interpret it differently, but this is one of the more popular ideas.

psychodelics

>Todd and co. tripping on?
Todd and Co. are fucking hacks.

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interesting that the two most populous plants in the imperial city, the centre of power in cyrodiil, are the fly agaric and morning glory flowers. coincidence, no?

This shit aint bad senpai.
Unironically a bit sad it won't be like this.

Listen man, CHIM and Zero-Sum states wouldn't exist if Nirn didn't exist inside the dream. It's supremely arrogant to think they would be separate beings frankly.

no. fuck no. the dwemer can't come back because they never existed. unless of course they just come back .

>they appear in fallout 5 instead

>the dwemer can't come back because they never existed. unless of course they just come back .
Wouldn't be the first time somebody said "fuck the rules."

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well it makes no sense for them to come back unless they come back. the only rules in elder scrolls are in the game world.

BRASS
GUNDAM

>uhhh guys did something happen to the towers while we were gone
>the Thalmor are doing WHAT
>WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU GUYS DO WITH NUMIDIUM

Kagnerac managed to activate Numidium in full.
He was 100% successful in his endeavor.

Unfortunately, Numidium's sole purpose is to deny the existence of everything false until it can't do so anymore, leaving only the "Truth".

Kagnerac activated it, and it functioned perfect, denying the existence of the Dwemer, who vanished as a race because they too were part of the lie, or the Dream of Mundus.

Numidium was a triumph. It worked too well, and the Dwemer didn't account for the fact that they were not real.

Without anyone to manipulate the heart any further and keep it running, Numidium stopped.

>the dwemer can't come back because they never existed
I'm a TES lorelet but isn't literally everything fake/a dream? Are the dwemer somehow double fake or something?

"it's complicated"

Fucked with the heart. Play Morrowind, the backstory of the nerevar is intertwined with the dwemer poofing.

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What i mean is that we have yet to see proof we need the sleepers. Dagoth Ur used ascended sleeper to influence reality and they were not gods. Even Hermaeus Mora has Ascended sleepers.

I know people like to play this giant lore to it. But evidencen seems to point that as long as Normies believe the world is normal it will remain so. And only those swayed hard by Daedra become sleepers and use their dreams for their daedra.

WHAT A GREAT INTOXICATED INNOCENCE

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I get the concept of zero summing and chim and all that bullshit, but what I don't understand is why the dwemer as a whole disappeared simultaneously. Are they a hivemind? Wouldn't it have just been the ones who understood "I am not" that zero-summed? Why would some dwemer far off doing something unrelated disappear as well? Why every single one on nirn?

>well it makes no sense for them to come back unless they come back.
Could just go "they didn't go anywhere except into the future. That's where they went and why nobody could find them, not even Vivec since he lost his power before they reappeared."

>What i mean is that we have yet to see proof we need the sleepers.
lmao you'll find out if they woke up. or you wouldn't because, ya know, you wouldn't exist anymore.

the simple phrase "I Am Not" shuts down this entire argument user.

so basically numidium itself cancelled itself out as part of the lie by cancelling out the dwemer, who cancelled out numidium, and everything was just cancelled.

yeah dwemer's gonna dwemer.

>Why every single one on nirn?
An entire race obsessed with empirical evidence achieves godhood and then realizes that nothing actually exists and that empirical evidence is a lie. What do you think would have happened?

Also, not ALL of them. Yagrum was too busy taking a dump in an alternate dimension to get spirited away with the rest.

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If it erases everything that's not real, why did it only erase the dwemer and not every other race as well?

>What do you think would have happened?
I don't care how advance they are collectively. They're not a hivemind with a single conscious and they would not all zero-sum, nor would they do so simultaneously.

>Also, not ALL of them. Yagrum was too busy taking a dump in an alternate dimension to get spirited away with the rest.
Hence why I said "why every single one ON NIRN"

It’s not so much a hivemind as much as a weird psychic resonance.

They were linked though

Dagoth Purr welcomes you Nerevar

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It makes sense.
Dwemer technology is all tonally based.
You know, sounds and music, but not. It affects reality the way air pressure make sound waves.

This is how dragon shouts work. Dragons fight by arguing. Their arguments, their words, shape reality to produce effects.

Numidium says "NO" to everything in the most efficient, complete, and inarguable manner possible. It DENIES the existence of things as fake. It can do this because the TeS world is a dream. It's all fake.
It just did this to the Dwemer as soon as Kagnerac activated it.

This is also why there are Dragon Breaks every time Numidium is activated. It "NO"s everything around it, causing paradoxes where things shouldn't happen, but also HAVE TO happen. So everything happens. And doesn't.

That's why Daggerfall's endings are all canon.

because the dwemer never existed in the first place. nothing did. the dwemer and the creation of numidium, a machine which cancels everything out as false and cancelled the dwemer who created it, then cancelled itself out as it had nothing to keep it going as the dwemer were gone is a self telling story.

it is just that, story, an illusion.

user, if everything is a thought form why would there not be an underlying connection to them? They're all made from the same thought. The bigger issue is that any survived, new dimension or not.

The same reason why when you kill the driver of a car, it stops.
It NOPE'd the Dwemer first. Numdium was "complete" but not assembled fully. Kagnerac activated it, but didn't have a system to keep it running without someone at the wheel.
Numidium erased its driver and powered down.

>They're not a hivemind with a single conscious
After achieving CHIM they are practically anything they want to be. Think of it in terms of scientific method: If one Dwemer proves that reality isn't real and the only way to prove it is to force a CHIM state in another Dwemer which then in turn realizes the same thing it creates a chain of anti-realization. Bagarn was spared because he was in another plane (presumably) and had no form of communication with the rest. Either that or he was the one Dwemer that rejected the truth and CHIM altogether via willful ignorance.

Then why do Daedra has Sleepers and Ascended sleepers?

Why did only the Dwemer get removed by Kagnerac?

Why does the dream matter if nirn was created by Lorkhan?

Because Lorkhan made the world sustainable by peoples own dreams. CHIM is just propaganda spread by dark elves because they suck daedra cock and the daedra don't want them to stop sucking.

Pretty sure your just riding high on the CHIM meme.

They literally owned the elder scroll used previously to trap Alduin and send him forward into the future are you fucking retarded?

Nir is a person, Nirn is memory of Nir inside of Anu

Did you even play skyrim?

>because the dwemer never existed in the first place. nothing did.
That's my point. It's not just the dwemer that didn't exist. Nothing did. So shouldn't the machine have erased everything together?

>Then why do Daedra has Sleepers and Ascended sleepers?
user, "sleepers" aren't actually the dreamer. Don't confuse yourself here.
>Why did only the Dwemer get removed by Kagnerac?
see and follow the chains.
>Why does the dream matter if nirn was created by Lorkhan?
>Because Lorkhan made the world sustainable by peoples own dreams. CHIM is just propaganda spread by dark elves because they suck daedra cock and the daedra don't want them to stop sucking.
CHIM is verifiable user. Denying it doesn't change reality literally.

The dwemer were psychic, once it happened to one it happened to all.

It's also the colloquial (if not fucking Divine) name of the realm. Failing to see your point here.

no but numidium doesn't exist either.

the machine erased everything and created everything, as did everything else. it doesn't exist. it's all a veil. it's just a self telling story.

youtube.com/watch?v=OXRWQefGh1U

how can you be so sure that the Numidium erased them? what if Kagnerac managed to pull all the Dwemer outside the dream and ascend them beyond the dream to a real existance?

what i made out of the lore is that either the dwemer desintegrated from either a collective "i don't exist" or ascended to "goodhood"

I would love some sort of source for the "Numidium DLET" part

Also all this
>Numidium denies everything
explanation doesn't explain Tiber's usage of it. How did he manage it?
But isn't oblivion a part of the dream aswell? It should reach out to him aswell. This boogles my mind
.>Why does the dream matter if nirn was created by Lorkhan?
In this case you every time you get more limited you get more aware. Like Aedra being less aware of themselves compared to man and mer on nirn. More aware you are more likely you can realize "I AM AND I AM NOT" and reach to CHIM state. Lorkhan new this and he wanted to give everyone a chance at this.

are you seriously saying the dwemer literally escaped the game and are living in the world outside the game world right now.

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They made a god realize that the Dwemer were never real.

In this case every time you get more limited you become more aware*

not as in IRL, your computer is not dreaming senpai

GUYS
I THINK I HAVE IT SOLVED
NUMIDIUM IS THE GOING INTO GAMES MACHINE

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user...

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Can confirm.
t.kagrenac

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>lorkhan was the first use of CHIM
>lorkhand Consciousness is still sustaining the world in the serpent constilation.

Stop spreading Sixth House Propaganda. Daedra screen people looking for CHIM to serve them. The failures are sleepers. Daedra just propagate it in hope of finding a CHIM that will let them take over.

>But isn't oblivion a part of the dream aswell?
It is, but the Daedra aren't very keen on CHIM shenanigans and are fully aware of such phenomena. They may have blocked such communication in their own spheres. Metaphysical tampering can be interfered with by the Daedra to some degree, much like how the Tribunal couldn't reverse Azura's curse that turned the Chimer into the Dunmer.

Whatever limits there are on CHIM are only clear to those who have achieved it and the Daedra. Both Talos and the Tribunal have waned in power to the point of being replaced entirely. Talos is being systematically destroyed as a figure while the Tribunal were supplanted by their so-called Anticipations.

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Kagrenac you fucking faggot, you forgot me. Come get me out. I wired Vivec to Yea Forums to send you this message.

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Denying reality will only unmake you user.

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>letting the darkies in
Maybe the Numidium wasn't so bad after all.

Fuck off fatty. We have internet porn and guns here. This is what you get for fucking around with Daedra right before the great fedora tip.
Enjoy existing loser.

daedra are the princes of change. they are like shadows of the aedra, and can only do as the aedra do, and to believe in the shadows alone is daedra worship, and delusional and yet not so. they cannot create. as such the realms of oblivion are merely manifestations of the same story and are not outside the realm but only in the belief of those who worship daedra, as are the events that seem to be manifest of the daedra.

yet you have failed to counter any of my points thus proving yourself wrong.

gg kid. Maybe try not to repeat yourself so much and go with the flow of conversation.

You don't seem to understand senpai. We moved on to mocking when you started spouting in-universe infowars tier shit.

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They tipped their fedoras so goddamn hard it effectively deleted their entire race from a plane of existence.

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What if Yagrum Bagarn was the only Dwemer that believed in the Daedra...because he was in Oblivion studying them when Kagrenac's CHIM shitstorm happened?

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This guy gets it.

What ARE Argonians?

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Treelicking lizards with tits.

Drones with a measure of free will when not actively in use.

then in the context of the story his survival might make sense. his story is of escape from the story of the disappearance of the dwemer, as the dwemer discovered that they did not really exist after being made to realise they were merely part of a game, so if yagrum was studying the daedra, he might well have escaped as he was entranced by the shadow of the aedra and didn't paradoxically go against the will of the aedra, and so the story tells that he survived, even though really he only came into existence as the dwemer never did. so he is the only dwemer that ever lived, even though he didn't.

fuck

Farm equipment thats more trouble than they are worth.

Ahem
FUCK DUNMER

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they believe in life as a single ever existing moment, so they are an understanding of the game as only existing by initiation of the player.

Why do you think Todd's house is so big? They're all there.

Slaves.

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things that never happened: the picture

or maybe they escaped his house into fallout 76 and wrecked it as revenge. when you play fallout 76 you are literally being fucked with by dwemer saboteurs. the game was actually to be bethesda's most polished game yet.

I'm a cat. How can you pet a cat? What a grand and intoxicating innocence.

Are you saying you haven't?

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>Hist trees are a sentient hivemind of supertrees that control an entire race and can apparently shoot mathematics to blow shit up

Elder Scrolls is sci-fi as fuck isn't it. It makes more sense if you think of it as H.I.S.T.

Isn't the hist basically just the same shit as the tree thing from Avatar that all the smurfs would plug into?

>Highly
>Intelligent
>Super
>Trees

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>Hist trees are a sentient hivemind of supertrees that control an entire race and can apparently shoot mathematics to blow shit up
No, they are an INTER-UNIVERSE-INCARNATIONAL sentient hivemind of supertrees that control an entire race and can apparently shoot mathematics to blow shit up.

In Skyrim there's a weird tree that has Ribena coming out of it. Is that a Hist? Because people were drinking that shit.

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They are different from Argonians. Argonians may reject Hist and their influence. Hist may modify Argonians and make them work like one big hivemind. They invaded Dagon's realm like this.

youtube.com/watch?v=kRNeNF67z0s

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It's the dreamers logic saying "yo wtf is going on here."

Excuse me but umm.
What does Yagrum eat? To stay that size I mean

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That small mage's guild quest in Skyrim shits on all of the lore from Morrowind regarding Dwemer.

doritos and tendies

Divinity. It's what fuels all the corpus transformations, including becoming a bloated fuck.

>shoot mathematics to blow shit up
I'm sorry wot

They will divide you by zero!

I don't know much about TES lore. Have there be any Orcs that did anything cool?

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>A radical faction in Black Marsh called the An-Xileel rallied the armies of Black Marsh into fighting the hordes of Daedra invading their home. They poured into Mehrunes Dagon's Deadlands and fought the Daedra on their own turf so successfully the Dremora Lieutenants closed their gates to prevent being overrun.

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their god is a cool guy

Corprus. You should see what it does to normal people.

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Stopped being considered one of the beast races, I suppose. Also, Umbra was an Orc in Morrowind iirc.

okay thanks kirkbride

They all noclip'd through nim after one of them walked into a wall by accident while holding a bucket

Why does everyone think Todd had a hand in this? If interviews are to be believed, Todd had to be literally tricked into most of the things we consider to be weird TES lore, mostly by Kirkebride.

Kirkbride loves using words like "weaponized mathematics" and "dream logic" to make things sound weird

Their god is the leftover dinner from a Daedric Prince. Being absolutely shit at everything besides being a petty dick is kinda an Orc's only role in the universe

>Their god is the leftover dinner from a Daedric Prince.
Even worse, Trinimac was eaten and shit out as Malacath by Boethiah.

No but their god is literal shit so that's cool

The irony being that everything Kirkbride did makes TES lore better in every way but the longer the series goes on the more soul drains from it until there's nothing good left.

Everything about modern Bethesda just suddenly clicks when you realize Todd is like a big baby

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Tipped their fedora a bit too hard.

So if Nir was birthed by Anu and Padomay, and in turn birthed the universe with Anu before he got time yoinked, does that make all of creation in TES an incestuous orphan? Is that what people mean when they say TES is just some fucked up dream? Is that the "thing" dreaming?

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Basically they said "oh shit, we don't exist" then stopped existing

You'll pay for your insolence reptile.

Play Morrowind, dumbshit.

Anyone got that explaination as to what exactly Dagoth Ur is? Something along the lines of a dead guy awake in the afterlife so when he dreams there he appears in the real world or some shit.

See image:

They didn't. They got fucked by Kagrenac's ambition and became the Orsimer.

>and became the Orsimer.
What? No.

Anybody have a good guide or pack for pimping out Morrowind? I've been using the Ornitocopter one but apparently it's quite out of date.

they realized there were elves... instead of dwarves

thus they shamed themselves out of exsistence

gotchu senpai

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Dunmer master race

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elf hate is a fucking meme what is this autism

Whatever you say knife ears.

Kagrenac hit the brown note and they all became fused to a giant screaming man-baby robot.

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delet

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Third paragraph describes Tiste Andii pretty well.

Todd and co. didn't do shit, the lore and shit even the engine were done by people that don't work for bethesda anymore. Bethesda just been riding on their hard work all this time.

The wild stuff barely appears in the games.

Vvardenfell ? Vvarden FELL.

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Weep not for those lost after Dusk. The Dawn inevitably returns.

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Good ol' Tiste Andii, do nothing for ten books then get ethered by a nigga with a hateboner and a sword that enables that hateboner.

Baucus ElderScrolls is poorly written.

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property

>"I just preordered 7 copies guise"
Not nearly enough

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