The best WoW expansion is not getting the classic treatment

no

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>phasing
>achievements
>dungeon finder
>two sizes for each raid
>daily lootbox reward with rare pets
>cash shop mount
>cartoon villain arthas
It was the beginning of the end and it needs to stay dead.
Good music and reveal cinematic though.

yeah and they should rehire mark kern

>putting wrath below MoP and Legion
Catababby confirmed. MoP was a shitshow

dungeon finder, trail of the crusader, duel spec

wotlk was the beginning of the end.

I had a lot more fun with Wrath than I did in Vanilla and BC for sure.

Finally a tier list that I can agree with.
>Still playing WoW in any form

I’ll concede that post-TOC, the gameplay started deteriorated. But if you rerelease Wrath without dungeon finder and welfare epics, you’d have a kino expansion.

Wotlk and Cata made changes that killed the game. At least MoP and Legion were amusing and made the best of a bad situation.

nah, dungeon finder was the best thing they added to the game and your brain is infested with aids if you think otherwise

>worst dungeon content in the history of wow
>worst raid tier in the history of wow (naxx rehash/os/maly)
>second worst raid tier in the history of wow (totc)
>destroyed the endgame progression by invalidating all but the newest raid tier
>introduced raid difficulty settings which led to the shit show we have now with 4 difficulties per raid
>introduced lfg which led to lfr

I too hate talking to people, also friends lists, as I am a lone ronin warrior tank that needs no guilds or master.

those were good though
Blizz killed it by making those features more core and neccesary to play

those features in Wrath weren't bad and only had upsides

>raidfinder
>RAIDFINDER difficulty
>homogenization of claases

those killed the game

>raid finder

is that a real thing? I remember people joking about that when they introduced the dungeon finder.

The dungeons were fine, good even. EasyNaxx was a great drunk raid and I think a perfect introduction for new players to raid mechanics. Maly/OS were fine. ToTC was boring but didn't last long. Progression raiding was aids.

The continued slicing and dicing of raid difficulties was stupid but that's shit from later expansions.

Does no one remember basically 90% of Tier 5 in BC being absolute shit, Hyjal being one of the worst raids in the game, and Sunwell sucked shit too because it had the same issue as original Naxx where you had all this content that like 100 people maybe saw. Magister's Terrace was a good dungeon though

yep that's what killed the game eventually, even in Wrath, the lowest difficulty dungeon still had a decent challenge to it and offered different items/encounters

Raidfinder now offers 99% same item, boss you can litearlly AFK through, etc

It has been a thing since the end of Cata. It sucks not because it gives "welfare epics" like people say, it sucks because while 5 randos who don't talk is totally fine for a dungeon- a full raid of randos who don't communicate is basically asking for a fucking headache no matter how much you water the mechanics down.

Nope

>garbage first raid tier
>Naxx revamp that was way too easy, Mal was boring as fuck after first kill, Sarth was garbage until 3 drakes
>DKs OP for entire expansion
>TotC is absolute fucking stupidity including the shit dailies they made everyone do
>heroic raiding
>LFD and cross-server
>zones that absolutely require a flying mount to even quest
>heroic dungeons are extremely easy compared to TBC
>removed attunments for zero reason
>reps are now pointless due to tabards and took less than 2 weeks to get exalted with each
>professions are basically pointless
>half of ICC was a boring mess
>achievements
>each patch negating the last bullshit they started

If you unironically think WotLK is better than TBC and Vanilla, you are automatically an rping zoomer who was twelve when WotLK came out

burning crusade has dranei, blood elves, flying mounts, each faction has pally/shaman.. I loved the raiding but a lot of it was the beginning of the end

nah I'm 35 and wrath was unironically better than Vanilla and BC. Sorry about your crippling autism.

most of them apply the same to TBC, if not more

Instead of Classic, they should make a server that has vanilla zones, TBC, WotLK, and MoP, but not including the world change from Cataclysm, with the class design of MoP. MoP was a really great expansion with the best class design the game has ever had. Im excited to play Classic but am bummed it wont have monk or that I wont be able to explore Northrend.

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>The dungeons were fine, good even
I don't even need to read the rest of this post to know that you're a casual wrathbaby
no aggro management, no cc necessary, just mindlessly running from pack to pack spamming aoe
remember how they actually made cata dungeons hard again and then the community cried until they were nerfed into irrelevance? that was you wrathbabbies ruining the game

ok, so every expansion just added shit the watered down the original game, then how the fuck does it still exist today? Are players just that retarded?

wotlk is trash

>fighting bosses as dragons
wtf

Vanilla > tbc >>>>>>> wotlk
hell I'd take MoP classic treatment over wotlk any day

Here's how bliz would win me back
make a server that blends vanilla,BC,wotlk all together, make the dungeons relevant at level 80, scatter the tier gear across all raids so vanilla and BC raids aren't ignored.
call it wow remix or something

you're like 19, shut up

amazing argument

you literally can't

>amazing first raid tier besides Mag and arguably great until Sunwell/ZA
>only outright OP class is druid in 2.4 and only in pvp
>no bullshit QoL
>flying mounts aren't necessary at all until TK which again isn't necessary
>no filler patches
>professions mattered
>reps mattered
>attunemnts out the ass
>difficult dungeons
>content wasn't replaced with each patch

I could go on but that already negates your argument

Wrath is an expansion beloved by retards who wouldn't handle vanilla and BC. All of its fans fall into one of 2 categories: Wrathbabies who started playing during Wrath, OR vanilla/BC players who sucked ass and could never actually do anything, in which case they also effectively started playing Wrath because they could finally "accomplish" things.

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Why do redditors love TBC so much while downplaying Wrath so much?

I played all of them and people suddenly started sucking on TBC's dick starting Cata/WoD

If you played during that time you'd realize how much TBC got shit on by the community

>immortal locks
>retarded story burning through every major character
>poorly tested raids leading to devs life fixing most encounters mid-ecounter
>the absolute mess that was launch SSC

you instantly lose by suggesting most of Tier 5 and Hyjal were good, and by assuming attunements and progression raiding were good

atleast you've given up defending wrath

if you played at launch you'd know how much SSC got shit on by the community, you are probably a zoomer larping like many of those nostalgiafags lmao

the fact you think CC and aggro management didn't happen basically means you have some sort of degenerative brain disease and don't remember running any of the heroics in blues/greens

the real giveaway for nostalgia larpers is being mad about Wrath naxx

Why do I never see people mention the Vault of Archavon as a negative? It was literally a weekly loot pinata for BiS shit and fucking PvP season arena gear.

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I ran heroics with my guild mostly still in t6 gear
we auto ran through it all and 95% of my globals were fan of knives or bladeflurry killing spree
you're a casual, I get it and wrath was designed specifically for you so you liked it

because it was fun and didn't affect progression for most players

>SSC and TK are bad
didn't raid
>progression raiding isn't good
didn't raid

yet Vash is still considered a top five boss for many people. people shit on TK/BT/SWP/Mag. 80% of TBC raids were buggy on launch who fucking cares if it got shit on for a brief period that doesn't discount a whole fucking raid

Let me read your mind.
Ah, I see you like doing heroics without any conscious thought and want showered with epics without real effort.
Your fear of hard work and lack of willingness to learn raid mechanics is clear and the only thing you really care about is theme and ambience.
Maybe you should try skyrim.

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true, it was basically welfare loot and people still managed to fuck the bosses up.
WoTLK was truly shit.

And to many of those people pre-nerf Lich King HC is considered top five boss, more than Vashj

>Random shitters getting BiS gear for no effort isn't a bad thing

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I did raid. SSC and TK were bad and so was Hyjal. The fact you pretended that anyone liked SSC was the giveaway you're full of shit.

So you were a dps that got carried, got it

Legion is overrated shit just like Wrath.

Anyone who played that crap at launch knows what I mean.

When did you realize WoW was beyond saving?
For me it was when I saw the vehicle sections in wrath

You barely got loot, unlike the catchup mechanics where you can gear up quickly it was an incentive for people to go PVP

>So you were a dps that got carried, got it

Are you implying healers or tanks were any less braindead in heroics when Wrath is the expansion where they homogenised the fuck out of healers and made it so they literally never ran out of mana?

because the reality is only faggot retards actually think dungeon finder or flying was a bad thing.
world of warcraft was NEVER and I mean NEVER hardcore.
When vanilla came out it was literally ez mode everquest.
Wrath was peak wow because it was the most fun, it had good content that was repeatable and engaging while also having qol of life adjustments that made the game feel like a game instead of an autistic chore like the average korean grinder mmo.
Then, after cataclysm added absolutely fucking nothing but perhaps the most boring expac questline ever, people got sick and left.
Why do people still stick around today? because even though blizzard stopped caring and the game has turned more and more into a boring and unfulfilling slog, it still manages to be better than every other shitheap mmo out there.
Which is quite impressive because current wow is fucking dogshit

>heroic raiding
>arena
>anti-social features like xrealm, xfers, lfd
these killed wow

Kara and BT are good, everything else is skippable.

sub count has been going down ever since Cata (2010)

problem is, WoW just set the bar so insanely high that despite having roughly 10% of the subscribers it used to have, it's still profitable

>You barely got loot

As far as I remember VoA25 dropped something like 5 pieces of gear a week. That's 1/5 of the playerbase getting a current tier/arena season piece a week. I have no fucking clue why you're defending a literal loot pinata because getting BiS gear is NOT a catch-up mechanic at all, that's not what that means.

>a steady path to progression instead of rng garbage is bad

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The fact that I know plenty of people who loved TK and SSC. It's amazing how you're trying to twist the overall narrative because it's obvious your guild wasn't doing t5 on progression.

Bottom line is TBC overall had better raids than WotLK. By fucking far

Zul'Aman was really good too. I think in terms of difficulty curve/options/feel the two best raids in the game were BC Zul'Aman and Ulduar.

bt was garbage until mother

i sure love one shotting basically every boss lmao fuck off

Because it wasn't meaningful to progression, or didn't undervalue previous content.

Also most of those loot were PVP items, literally nonissue.

this
>wowbabbies actually think DBM shouting at them is "hardcore content"

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>Boss drops literally the entire endgame PvP/PvE lootpool
>Not RNG

I seriously haven't got a clue what your argument is.

>heroic raiding BAD
>arena BAD

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No, because you still have piss easy faceroll dungeons, terrible raids, and the worst additions to PvP the game has ever seen.

PvE
>Naxx rehash: a black mark on WoW. The developers should be forced to commit seppuku.
>Maly: Gay vehicle mechanics ruin an otherwise alright Lair raid
>Sarth: the only good raid in tier 7
>Ulduar: only looks as good as it does because it surrounded by shit. The obvious swan song from the WoW oldguard.
>ToC: a fucking embarrassment in game design
>ICC: an absolute let-down of a raid. Bland, blue hallways. Yawn-inducing music. Multiple crap fights. Deus-ex-machina ending. Naxx feels like 10x the Scourge raid. You could put anything in ICC and it would have the same feel.
>RS: who even remembers this piece of shit?

PvP
>SotA: such an awful addition it was flat out removed eventually. Actively discourages PvP in a battleground
>IoC: Same shit, different flavor
>Wintergrasp: unbalanced mess from day 1 till Cata dropped. An absolute failure of a warzone.

I love wotlk because I started sophomore year of High school and began my journey as a belf warlock and then an undead dk. We were a casual guild and were great friends. Great memories with that guild, which is why I loved wotlk the most (Wotlk went down hill with Trial of the crusader, that shit was stupid. Ulduar was amazing). I actually started a trial game of WoW when Black Temple came out for TBC and made an undead warlock on Misha. I was so used to playing osrs in 8th grade that I didn't even know how to play wow and had no friends to play with, so I just quit on my newly made undead.

I'm excited for classic because I never got to play it. I would love a TBC server. It won't bring back old friends, but it sure will be another experience.

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>didn't undervalue previous content

user it dropped CURRENT tier gear, are you braindead?

>every single post defending wotlk without fail is coming from a casual "dude the dungeons were fine" "handing out free bis gear was good"

Shut up you fucking moron, grinding the same raid boss once a week for months on end just to potentially role on the weapon you need was neither engaging, good or fun.
The token system was the best goddamn thing they ever added

Dungeon finder was in tbc

yes, that you would in average get every 4~5 weeks
it's different to something like Magister's Palace which shit items everyday

>everyone shits on trial of the crusader
>I actually found that raid and dungeon really fun because it felt different and I liked the music

I agree I liked tokens, so why are you defending VoA?

>The token system was the best goddamn thing they ever added
what the fuck does that have to do with voa, tokens were added in tbc you moron

This is probably the most reasonable opinon, I played both back in the day to a high level (Was healer for Nihilum)

Well youre a faggot because BC is the only expansion worth playing.

>Introduced dungeon finder
>Cemented catch up token gear that made all but the latest raid tier obsolete as the norm. This style of patch/content cycles still plagues the game.
>Begun the toning down of heroics over the difficult ones TBC had
>Trial of the Crusader one of the worst raids ever implemented in WoW
>Doubled down on daily rep grinding
Though to be fair TBC really kicked that off as well as welfare gear but nowhere near the extent Wrath did. Wrath did a lot right but it introduced so many trends or ideas that stuck and heavily contributed to the overbloated mess of an MMO we have today.

Again, every single bit of history here is against you. SSC was absolutely fucking reviled even after the fixes and Vashj drama. TK was a fun dichotomy because people simultaneously thought the Kael'thas encounter was cool while hating the shit out of actually doing it.

Hyjal is one of the worst raids in the entire game and even you can't spin that. No one liked Mag. Basically no one saw past Brutallus.

The only fun memory I have of SSC is watching people die missing the elevator.

>No Azjol'Nerub zone

Fuck that expansion

As opposed to spamming LFG in chat and then never saying shit once you get invited because you don’t have to?

Cope
TBC had magisters

incredibly accruate

Yeah and I'm Kungen.
Get the fuck out zoomer.

It doesn't matter what you personally may or may not have got and how often, the fact is there was an enormous amount of BiS gear entering the game in a completely unearned way, dumbing down the content and giving braindead shitters like you good gear for nothing. Unearned gear is one of the worst things to happen to the game, at least in BC the welfare gear was a tier or two lower than the current best shit and took ages to grind out.

Absolutely not.

Classes were completely unbalanced in the beginning and the damage was through the roof. Ulduar was good, but I quit shortly afterwards.

>he's such a sperg he doesn't understand the social side of MMO's
lol

damn you got me there, I forgot magisters terrace dropped the same loot as swp
retard

Nice bait wotlk was a major disappointment and we all knew at the time.

so you are okay with every other catchup mechanic right?
keep coping

No retard

>nerf fiesta
>dungeon finder
>standardized gearing, pretty much just getting more of the same stat on the gear, no gear variety anymore
>first expansion to butcher pvp entirely, unplayable mess since
Y-yeah... best expansion...

>Magisters:gives Kara level gear during tier 6.5
>meanwhile Wrath has 3 dungeons which give tier 9 gear during tier 10, and badges you can use to outright buy tier 10

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So why aren't you against world drops and buyable epics? TBC introduced the strongest of both

TBC
>well we like our entry lvl raiders to have at least 175 attack power and 200 str if they're melle, but we can work around..
WOTLK
>WHATS UR ILVL SORRY YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH ILVL JUST GET ILVL. ILVL ILVL

>only ulduar was good
Still kind of baffles me they went from something as amazing as Ulduar to TotC. It always felt like a shitty filler raid to pad out the length of the expansion until ICC came out. They also really should have stuck with the difficulty modes they experimented with there where you had optional hard modes during some fights but only 10/25 man versions and a final boss like Algalon requiring you to do the hard mode fights.

3 bosses* that give PVP items alongside

Archavon didn't affect progression in any meaningful way
Magisters has

if you played with anyone using the gearscore addon you deserved what you got

same now with raider.io

It was.

>how to do catchup mechanics right
introducing a dungeon with loot that is better than other dungeon loot

>how to do catchup mechanics wrong (aka the wotlk way)
whenever a new raid tier comes out make the rewards for dungeons the last raid tier so that nobody ever does anything but dungeons and the newest raid tier
also whenever a new raid tier comes out add that bis tier gear to an easy, puggable raid that every single idiot can clear so that they can feel good too

Also TBC didn’t really add catch up gear until the end of the expansion.

Wotlk was when the game became “playing the patch”.

None of the expansions were good. BC was okay, but it ruined the best part of WoW and the game never got it back.

Fucking faggots.

Retard. WotLK heroics were only hard that first week until you got geared up in easy epics and understood the mechanics. It was faceroll easy 99.9% of the expansion

>It always felt like a shitty filler raid to pad out the length of the expansion until ICC came out

Because it was. The gear was absolutely ugly and the raid was completely lackluster.

The actual looking for group dungeon finder wasn’t introduced until ICC heroics

Are you a moron?

wow.gamepedia.com/Frozen_Halls

So you are saying you are okay with ToC?

And so was TBC, except gearing was slowed down due to rep grind.

You didnt play TBC? Wrath was as atleast 2 times as easy, including the heroics. It was pretty mediocre until Uldar came out.

>SINCE WRATH DID IT ITS OKAY
kek keep coping

But it still functioned the same way, the main difference is that you didn’t get a free teleport in TBC

No one used it though

Nope, TBC was 'hard' because bosses weren't tuned properly.

Burning crusade with restricted flying (only in Netherstorm) and more pvp world objectives would be the best experience.

You can't debate this. The classes are improved, the talent trees more interesting, the raids are better. It has everything.

>But it still functioned the same way
this is some extreme mental gymnastics

Cross-server shit in cata is what killed WoW, Wrath was good.

It didn't automatically set you up with a group over your entire battlegroup.

>ITT: seething boomers who started in vanilla so they will never ever experience what it feels like to start in WotLK and be completely overwhelmed and amazed at the game while it was at it's peak
stay mad boomboys.

I kinda wondered why the tournament wasn't just used as a catchup method to get in TO Ulduar. Ulduar's normal-mode mechanics were well designed- gearing was always the drag.

Have Ulduar be out for a regular amount of time for standard gearing, then drop the tournament as 5-mans instead with gear that fills out slots that were covered by later Ulduar bosses. Guilds/groups that weren't progressing well through Ulduar can finally get their weakest slots up to snuff, then power through. Nothing wrong with that.

Also heroics were gated behind a rep grind at the time so they weren’t as easily accessible

a tight release schedule with non-buggy/overtuned raids might compensate for how lame most the raids are

The music in WotLK was so fucking good.

Imagine being proud of being a literal wrath baby who ruined the game

cross-server was added in wotlk you fucking mong

Heroic Keys were revered right? Or was it honored?

>Culmination of the most popular storyline in Warcraft's history in the most hyped up continent.
>Azjol'Nerub gutted
>Four raid tiers. Two of them related to the story. The other two were a rehash and a no effort filler raid.
>Ugly raid sets
>No one likes siege vehicle gameplay
>Tank streamlining
>Death of PVE crowd control, just aoe everything down.
>Gearscore (not game related though)
>Death of mounts. Mounts handed out like candy. Mounts are not unique anymore.

>self-admitted wrathbabby bragging that he loves the taste of shit
oh man this is good

You can’t even use dungeon finder for the content that matters, i.e. mythic

It really was.
The music in other expansions are good to.
Even in the shitty ones, the music always seems to be pretty good, but WotLK's music just has that special something.

they started out as revered but were pretty quickly nerfed to honored

>The music in WotLK was so fucking good.

I concur.

youtube.com/watch?v=ufyQo5-UcvE

youtube.com/watch?v=6bFof6GeW1Q

If there is one thing Blizz does right, it's their music.

One of the happiest memories of my adolescence was hearing the Wrath log-in music for the first time when it got leaked in the first week of June.
youtube.com/watch?v=r546F8rSWE8

It was added in 4.1.0 you fucking brainlet

Revered but became honoured after sunwell

Quickly?

They weren’t nerfed until the final raid of the expac retard.

What the fuck are you even talking about? Are you incapable of following the thread of a conversation?

>Wrath invalidates entire previous tiers by showering you in loot equivalent or better than the previous tier, and badges to buy LITERAL tier9/10. You can literally gear out every slot in epics almost equivalent to ICC 10 without ever stepping foot in a raid
>BC has a single dungeon which gives loot equivalent to it's very first raid. At most you can get a couple epics to help you progress in Kara/Tier 5 at a time when SWP is current content.

Not to mention because TBC has no dungeon finder; you're limited to running HC MT once a day. You could spam Frozen Halls heroics all day long and rake in badges by the bucket. These are not even remotely similar, and trying to present them as such is disingenuous.

Wasn't cross server a thing in wotlk but only within the same battlegroup?

I believe so.

i love wrath because how much fun warlock was. firing off incinerates and chaos bolts oh mannnnnn it was so much fun

Is there a specific reason why everyone hates BFA? What exactly is wrong with it? genuinely asking

Yes. It started with battlegrounds in 1.12, but was limited to battlegroup. LFG was originally the same. I don't know about LFR because I quit early Cata.

>MMO
>social
Why not play any other multiplayer game that doesn't cost hundreds of hours of your time until the actual fun part begins? I used to play WoW constantly but I can't understand how anyone could play it any longer than a few months before thinking about playing something else with their friends instead.

I don't like it because the lack of communication, transmog: the game, sharding, and pvp sucks. I like the storyline, but I just can't do it anymore.

Casuals who loves spamming shadow bolt and sunder armor and hate actual challenging content with real mechanics like mythic dungeons and raids

warfronts are pointlessly easy, azerite system is even more uninteresting than Legion's system, the 'alliance vs horde' aspect was mainly you doing single player instanced quests you only get every few levels.

The assaults/world pvp content that came too late is hampered by sharding.

Blizzard already said that if Classic runs well, they will probably to TBC and WOTLK servers.

So subscribe, play.

it was nerfed in 2.3, not 2.4
halfway through the expansion

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For me it's the way that every spec plays.
Nothing feels "special" anymore.
All melee specs play the same, all ranged specs play the same, all casters play the same, all healers play the same and all tanks play the same.
Switching from 1 class to another, it's the same thing except different names for the spells.

>O
>not social
lol nigga just play an rpg lol nigga just stop being autistic

One of the biggest advertised features (allied races) is locked behind an obnoxious time-gated rep grind. So something that normally would be available at release in an expac, you have to grind for about 3 weeks everyday to get.

Loot is basically even more of an obvious skinner box, where even if you get a BiS gear, you still want to get it to a third tier of a hidden roll to get the best out of it.

A bunch of classes lost essential tools with the loss of artifacts, so they just feel half-finished and boring.

>Every zone on Northdale is being camped by 60s

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I haven't played it, but from what I've seen the content it's added is a pointless and boring (Warfronts, Islands) and it's core systems are fundamentally broken (azerite). This is compounded by bad class design (BFA removed a bunch of stuff Legion added).

ill just add the layers upon layers of RNG that make gear annoying as shit

Plot has managed to be awful even by blizzard's standards. Class design is poor and has been for several expansions and the changes they made in BFA basically amounted to removing artifact abilities but giving nothing in compensation. So you have classes that were designed around their artifact in legion, no longer have said artifact and just have giant gaps in their kits and/or rotations. AP Grind/Loot Design makes gearing really unfun. The dungeons and raids are still good but its hard to even promote that when the core of the game (gearing and class mechanics) fucking suck.

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>activision merge
>token for tier
>LFG
Yeah I dont think so nigger

here are the actual faults from someone who can accept that the game is just different from how it used to be
>added no successful new game systems/content
warfront, islands and azerite gear were all major failures
>added almost nothing new to the classes for the first time ever
along with the loss of artifact weapons, tier sets, and the failure of azerite gear this means that every spec plays like a barebones version of their legion counterpart

Tbc had tokens

What went wrong with Azerite gear?

What the point of Fordragon nu-lich king?

the start of wotlk was amazing, by the end it was really forecasting where wow would be in a few years

Northdale is terrible. I'm pretty excited for Classic to have 2.5k server caps.
Private server I played on way back in the day peaked at 1.5k a day and it was great. That had a real community feel to it.

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Play on dragonblight and join alliance

Miss first patch DK.

>and join alliance
why?

the biggest problem is that, at launch, there was no reliable way to get the pieces you wanted. they've since added some currency system but I quit so I don't know exactly how it works

azerite gear wouldnt drop from m+, only base mythics, so you just had to pray for drops from a couple of raid bosses (that might not even have the good traits you're looking for) or from your 1 in a million weekly m+ chest

also for many specs the best bonuses were completely passive and uninteresting, although I played a fire mage and my bis trait was well designed and was playstyle changing

Dude, me too.

>5 of us DK's running Hellfire Penninsula at the lowest level
>Steamroll through it without a healer

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Token for tier was a necessity. Vanilla was dropping 8 different tier pieces per boss. BC would have dropped 27, since each faction got the other's previously exclusive class, and tier was expanded to be Spec specific rather than class specific.

Too many horde players

still, why? wouldn't I want to play with more people for PVE?

So everyone ever?

tell me what made casting fireball endlessly feel so special and unique from pressing shadowbolt endlessly

The server has 4k+ players and more than half are horde, it’s not fun.

I didn't need to, raided only with guild

it's ICC patch, right? it's when they killed DKs.

Gearscore was probably at 100% saturation on my server. Even if you were in a raiding guild you'd need it just for VoA pugs because people would be like
>LFM VoA 4.5k+ gs required
The add-on was never a big deal for mains, but could be a pain for pugs.

>he doesn't remember running wrath 5-mans with cross server people
The red pill is that TBC sucked also. Shit aesthetics, quest hubs, dailies, flying mounts, blood elves and space goats, no faction specific classes, on and on. BC was garbage. Vanilla is unironically the best form of the game.

>LFG
>best expansion

really makes you think

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The game is fine if you want to play at exactly or below what Blizzard thinks you SHOULD be playing at. If you want to play more or at a higher level the game quickly becomes shit because you run out of meaningful shit to do very quickly. Essentially, the game is only good if you are bad at the game.

So Classic+/OSRS treatment is a problem because we probably can't trust Blizzard or the community to be true to Vanilla design philosophies.

And simply remaking TBC and WotLK is a problem because it would defeat the point of Classic at best, causing a vicious cycle where Blizz cycles through all the expansions due to popular demand; or at worst it would heavily divide the playerbase if they made expansion servers optional.

But what about a mix of both? They release TBC and WotLK as level 60 content, without raising the level cap. Everything is re-itemized to be on par with vanilla 60 gear, so that mainland Azeroth content remains relevant alongside the Outland and Northrend stuff.

And on top of that, the community selects certain features to omit from the expansions, such as flying mounts, badge gear, Paladin+Shaman exclusivity, etc.

This would literally be the perfect solution if they could pull it off.

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Garbage is too harsh, but BC is flawed, and also lackluster in a lot of areas. If Blizz were to do BC after Classic I'd want changes for sure.

>such as flying mounts
Out of all the things the community might not fuck up given a feature voting system, this is the one they absolutely will.

It definitely has the most potential for a remake since they could add all the cut content, they basically had another expansions worth of content.

Well, ideally Blizzard would just have the foresight and wisdom to say "Hey guys we're releasing TBC without flying mounts" and we wouldn't need to vote on anything. But that's unlikely, and even if it did happen people would be upset.

>wotlk gets announced
>fuck yeah I love northrend
>cant wait to trudge snowy plains with feral undead lurking everywhere while snowy blizzard blocks all vision
>get vikings, dragons, dwarves and capeshit tier plot about titans instead

Im for classic+ since Im going to quit after nax release anyway
expansion servers are dumb and will just split the community too much

>lfg tool
No thanks
Why the the fuck would you want to play a mmo and not socialize

What's wrong with dual spec?

MoP changed the talents into boring casual friendly garbage you mongoloid. Also the theme of the expac was shit and the dungeons are maybe the worst of any expac.

THE FACE OF CLASSIC WOW

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>MoP furfags think their panda waifu expac was good
lmao

>pic not related

For Wrath nothing honestly. It was basically a trivial amount of gold by Wrath.

Do you expect the face of wow to be a well groomed corporate sleazebag in a suit? Cause that's what we have for BFA and its shit.

Classic is the neckbeard WoW and that's what made it good.

WoW was never hard. When vanilla released, it was advertised as the casual MMO for players who wanted an easier MMO experience to go to.

All these people talking about "this or that in X expansion was too easy" are retarded. WoW has always been the easy MMO for casuals.

On the classic servers? Then it wont be classic anymore itll be expanding luke it originally did.

You probabaly meant opening up new servers where each expansion is the cap.
Classic server-Vanilla Cap
BC Server- BC is the end game cap
WOTLK- LK is the end game cap

All seperate servers so you can expand and stop at the expansion you want to stop at.

>I only play spreadsheet simulators like Eve online
>I'm a hardcore mmo player dude
autism

It didn't have BiS

>vanilla/BC players who sucked ass and could never actually do anything, in which case they also effectively started playing Wrath because they could finally "accomplish" things.
Me only thing was i never got good at LK it took me all the way to Mists to actually give a shit and really try. Up untill MoP i got the most enjoyment questing and exploring. Miss those days bro hold me

Wrath is when WoW started to suck. ICC felt like a disappointment, TOC is the worst raid Blizzard ever made, Wintergrasp was lame, vehicles were a mistake, classes started to feel more homogenized. I think my biggest complaint is how forgettable Northrend is. TBC had the Burning Legion involved in every single zone making everything feel connected. Northrend felt like several zones with very different themes stitched together. The only really great thing from WotLK is Ulduar and that's why people remember it so fondly.

problem with that is some TBC zones were specifically designed around players being able to fly.

The start of wrath was pretty fun though. It was my first real experience raiding because i was too much of an underage noob to raid during classic and TBC except for the occasional pugs.

it's pretty obvious hard raids don't make an expansion good since raids have just been getting harder since cata, but when shit is obviously badly undertuned it's not satisfying

Then how do you access Netherwing Ledge, or Skettis, or Orgil'a, or Tempest Keep and the surrounding dungeons?

TBC is designed with flying, releasing it requires flying.
Doing 1.13+ is the only solution to not ending up with each expansion adding in game ruining shit.

Ultima, Asheron's Call, DAoC, EQ, and even Runescape were always more hardcore MMOs than WoW, and WoW actually had harder content added to the game in later expansions.

The guy mentioned that launch raids for Wrath of the Lich King were easy. Let's take a look at Molten Core, which can be cleared in quest and world drop greens and blues. The "hardest" part of raiding in vanilla WoW was literally just filling out a raid team. The hardest mechanic in any vanilla encounter was going left or right on Thaddius.

Right but look at the ultra complex raids in legion and BFA, hardly fun at all. Then you have 3 difficulty levels that most people have 0 interest in clearing on the highest difficulty because the rewards don't matter in the slightest.

>Wotlk
>Best expansion
This is how you know the poster is just some zoomer trying to fit in, people who actually played it hated the fuck out of it, it started with a copy pasted naxxramas with literally 0 changes as if copy pasting the raid wasn't lazy enough, and it had the worst 2 raids in the game's history (trial of the crusader and ruby sanctum) aswell as casualized the game via dungeon finder among other problems.

>B-BUT IT HAD ULDUAR!!!
a good raid doesn't make the expansion not shit, there are plenty of shit expansions that had good raids in it.

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Oh absolutely. I'm not saying that the harder content released in WoW is necessarily good or fun. I'm simply saying that the "vanilla WoW was harder" argument is fucking dumb.

/thread

move wrath up to A and youve got it user

who the fuck wants to play horde
literal mudhut niggers eating KFC in their designated nigger KFC huts in the middle of every zone (complete with every vendor, more quests then alliance and FP ofc oh and sometimes there is even a zeppelin or free transport thrown in) while chimping on anything that moves in numbers only despite rolling for pvp racials but never actually 1v1ing to use them
then porting into their literal mudhut nigger KFC city called "orgrimmar" more like ogreshit lol blizzard literally took some somalian shithole town and copy pasted it into wow to give that authentic nigger feel to the faction le monster races br0 check out these NO SHOES so whacky better name myself something fucking retarded like boogerbones to fit in btw get owned kid totally bg queued out of that 1v1 close one
you want a sick capital city to afk in br0? take your pick :

- literal sewer shithole with aids and feces everywhere
- some fucking retarded canyon thing where you fall off and die
- literal nigger kfc somali city

NO

SHOES

NO SHOES
N O S H O E S
N I G G E R

FUCK YOU HORDE NIGGERS

I think when people say Classic is harder they usually mean questing and lvling up to max lvl is harder relative to modern WoW. As in takes more time and groups of mobs are much more of a threat than they are now.

Mechanically raids in classic are objectively simpler though.

>dungeon finder

Wrath ruined WoW, the sub count plummeted with Cata because they continued the shit from Wrath

Mop had one of the most enjoyable class balancing as well as extremely good raids and boss mechanics no matter how much people will scream.

Sure, the pandas and the theme of the expansion can be argued upon but the core mechanics were pretty solid.

>a good raid doesn't make the expansion not shit, there are plenty of shit expansions that had good raids in it.
Like MoP.

wrathabby pls

And yet the leveling and questing experience even in vanilla WoW is easier and less time consuming than every other MMO out there. The bottom line is that WoW is casual and always has been. The "vanilla WoW is hard" argument is still fucking stupid.

>class balancing as well as extremely good
Class balancing was never good fuck off. Also getting rid of talent trees was huge mistake you pandafag apologist.

wotlk is causal tier

prove me wrong

>Doing 1.13+ is the only solution to not ending up with each expansion adding in game ruining shit.

I agree but what about the awesome parts of the expansions? Like the Dark Portal opening event, the WotLK scourge event, etc. All those were amazing experiences and players would want to relive them too. Besides, why bother making new content for Vanilla when players are so clearly ready to spend money for the old stuff?

Anybody who seriously thinks WotLK was the best expansion don't remember what a mess it was. I know I sound exactly like Battle for Babbies right now ranting about Classic, but WotLK was really all over the place and very inconsistent in quality. It's a better game than BfA for sure. I've even played it on private servers to relive the experience, and it has a lot of good features, but it's no Classic.

>is easier and less time consuming than every other MMO out there.
That's why I said relative to modern wow. I really don't give a shit if it's considered casual relative to Everquest or some other irrelevant mmos.

WoW as a whole is casual tier. It is THE casual MMORPG.

I gave up on WoW during WotLK when it took me 4 days of casual playing to get to 80. Literally the main reason for playing the game was over and done with and I think I did like 3 out of the 8 zones.

>took 4 days of casual playing to get to 80
stop lying

>Muh talent tree
Yes because copy pasting the ONE viable tree for every spec was a cool and hard thing to do, stop pretending to know what you're talking about I bet you never even did any raids beyond normal let alone LFR.

Skill trees aren't supposed to be complex but at least it offered SOME variety and preference in mop.

But it literally did. I got to grizzly hills(?) when I hit 80. I remember being incredibly dissapointed.

It is NOW the casual MMORPG and that only began with welfare epics. Vanilla and most of TBC you had to earn epics and there wasn't catch up mechanics for new raids like modern wow has.

Vanilla progression:
get level 60 -> get blue gear -> Molten Core -> Blackwing lair -> AQ 40 -> Naxx

Modern progression:
boost to top level -> do dailys for epics -> ignore past raids -> go straight into latest raid

>Vanilla is finally coming back
>People are already trying to get TBC and WotLK to follow

Do you idiots not realize that you're just going to fuck up the game again? You're gonna play through classic, get some mediocre gear, keep telling yourself "I'm gonna complete Naxx this time around!" and then you want Blizzard to announce they're going to release TBC so that you can once again give up and just wait for all of your progress to be wiped out by random quest greens?

How do people not realize that continuing to just re-release old expansions would land them right back at where we are now. Or has everyone forgotten when people were starting to quit the game in droves during Wrath and ultimately lead to the current state of WoW.

If Blizzard isn't going to try and release some sort of 1.13 content after Classic starts to go stale then I hope to fuck that they don't give in to the troglodytes trying to relive transitioning to TBC.

bad balance is okay when classes aren't homogenized

map classes were bloated. Cata was the sweet spot

Wrath killed WoW

Northrend is the most inspired continent in WoW don't even attempt rebuttal

It was always the casual MMORPG. You've probably never played any other MMORPGs aside from maybe some random Korean grinding MMOs where there's nothing to do but level grind.

Feels longer than 10 years to me.

Nigger everyone knows the only reason fags like MoP is for the pandawaifus. Who do you think you're kidding.
>Yes because copy pasting the ONE viable tree for every spec was a cool and hard thing to do,
Stop pretending like current talents are any different retard. Theres still meta talent choices that are objectively better than others.

>all these niggers going on about raids and shit
World PvP is what made vanilla great

You're full of shit. If you played 5 hours a day or whatever you consider to be casual play during wrath for 4 days you didn't get to before hitting Grizzly Hills. Seriously wrath has issues but why are you straight up lying.

MoP classes weren't any more or less homogenized than in other expansions besides Vanilla and TBC.

This but the point of raiding or getting gear for me at least was to get an edge in pvp. Getting gear in retail is utterly pointless now because it doesn't affect pvp so why would i bother raiding in 2019.

>mage in vanilla
Has access to frost, fire, and arcane spells. Talents allow you to specialized in certain spells and give you a few extras but you always have your full toolkit of abilities

>mage in bfa
You have either frost, fire, OR arcane spells. You are strictly limited to one school. It's a fucking joke

These places only need to be accessed with flying. That's easily replaced by a one-way flight-master. I think only Ogir'la has a daily that actually uses your flying mount.

>the community selects certain features to omit
hahahahahahahahahahhaha

good luck with that. you know exactly what kind of community wow has

Snowscapes are my favorite settings but theres is a limit and this went way way way past it.

>Nigger everyone knows the only reason fags like MoP is for the pandawaifus. Who do you think you're kidding.
So you're some meme spouting retard? yes there are furfags but this has nothing to do with the expansion itself you ape
>Stop pretending like current talents are any different retard. Theres still meta talent choices that are objectively better than others.
I said SOME you imbecile, some of them are up to preference while the old talent tree had THE one build for every spec.

Wrath>MoP>everything else was shit>vanilla

Thinking dungeon finder was a bad addition is the true mark of a brainlet who had no idea what made WoW good. All it did was make it easier to find groups and added a few more rewards.

Raid finder on the other hand, was a horrible addition, because the devs started tuning rewards around the idea that EVERYONE would be doing it (or doing actual raids) and it ruined any sense of progression that wasn't raid related.

Are there any other servers worth playing on?

Nethergarde seems to have around the right population but I've had negative things about it.

Wrath is also my favorite expansion for WoW but that's probably simply because that is when I started playing it, so I look at it through glasses of nostalgia.

>main dk during wotlk
>10+ years later still the tear fountain still works perfectly
Stay mad tbc and vanillafags.

>streamers streamers streamers

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Hej Kungen!

Convince me not to play a paladin

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Do you like healing?

i can't. they're good at literally everything and fun to play

Why lie?

He's right though

How can flying mounts be considered a bad thing? They make transportation so much faster and easier. Though I supposed that can be construed as a bad thing if you want the game to be more "hardcore", which is a dumb idea in and of itself considering it's only WoW.

they're fucking BORING. you will literally be auto attacking all the way to level 60. and once you get to 60 you will be pressing a grand total of 2 buttons for 90% of the raid in between buffing people since your buffs only last for 5 minutes. the fact that people enjoy this shit is baffling to me.

3.0 was trash. 3.1 was better than TBC. 3.2 was also trash. 3.3 was a okay. Not better overall.

play a druid instead, they're more fun (also you have way better move speed than the other classes)

You won't be what your image implies.

WotLK was the start of the fall of WoW. Dungeon finder, ICC was time gated, ToC was terrible, first raid was rehash of Naxx.

Garbage all around except for Ulduar and the amazing hard modes which they screwed up entirely in the very next raid.

>your buffs only last for 5 minutes
oof, watch those youtube videos a little closer next time

Honestly i cant understand how people like TBC, all the zones look disgusting except nagrand and they added bood elfs and paladins to the horde.
matter of taste i guess

wpvp and immersion - giving weight and meaning to getting to a place and objective. Flying just sours the gameplay

people actually like arena

I actually find post cata raiding to be the most fun I've had in a long time with the game.

*ahem*
FUCK Maraudon and FUCK Dire Maul

Alright

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>wow retail
>wow classic
>wow classic bc
>wow classic wotlk
>wow classic cata
>wow classic panda
>wow classic orc arc
>wow classic legion
>wow classic bfa

>dungeon finder is bad
>time locked content is bad
Kek faggot gtfo