Which games have the highest skill ceiling?

quake arena

Extreme bullet hell games.

>aiming a hitscan laser

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Probably this or some kind of RTS.

Siege

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fortnite unironically

this undoubtedly

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hahaha

Fighting games are objectively the hardest followed by RTS games. Both of these genres have Asians dominate them. Dexterity, strategy and skill are required to win in both genres.

0/10

>

>Only skill involved in CS is aiming
nah

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DCS

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There is a luck element to FPS games that is minimized in fighting games and RTSs, though. There is no beginners luck in either of those genres, meaning it takes forever to become competent. There are no lucky headshots like in FPS games.

STEPHEN

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Whoever gets railgun first dominates.
>Skill based

>"bruh, u jost suck at CS, uinstal, fagggg"
Fuck this game and fuck its community.

Movement based TPS games like GunZ/S4 League are up there for sure. It's a shame the genre is fucking dead.

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Ok, but bruh, u jost suck at CS, uinstal, fagggg

>Quake
>fighting games (not experienced enough to say what is the most difficult to master, but all tend to be really hard)
>Starcraft

If you took the 5 best CS aimers of all time, made a team out of them, but made them play grug-tier round tactics without proper coordination, they would never win anything.

Unironically Overwatch

The only video game to ever require genuine skill was Starcraft. Everything else is just unga bunga aim at guy or pick-the-top-tier-and-win fightan negro battles.

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(You)

Racing Simulators.

quack

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Quake easily, makes cs or any other shooter look like a childs game.

>The only video game to ever require genuine skill was Starcraft.

RTS games require the most mechanics, but any game can be hard--as hard as your competition is, in fact. Fighting games are also extremely mechanics based, so I don't see why you exclude those.

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Overwatch should have only had like 7 or 8 characters.

>muh quake
meme game, with such generous hitboxes, fighting games require way more skill

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Will there ever be a more comfy ui?

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>spam left click until your building is above your enemy
wew

Fighting games are mostly reaction time based.
RTS games are mostly carpal tunnel based. (Hardcore strategy/wargames are turn based for a reason)
FPS is reaction time + aim + map knowledge.

Racing simulators are all of that combined with all of the other mechanics involved in real life car physics like pedal control, suspension management, gearbox/clutch, drafting....

*blocks your path*

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>post is semen based

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Good point to bring up racing sims, stuff like iRacing leagues are some serious shit. With very complex driving model and physics, they’re that kind of game that can never really be completely mastered and the competion is super intense.

It’s just a genre that goes mostly unseen by Yea Forums, not many here seem to care about driving sims.

>Racing simulators are all of that combined with all of the other mechanics involved in real life car physics like pedal control, suspension management, gearbox/clutch, drafting....

You might be right, but they aren't a thing like RTS and fighting games are, though.

>Fighting games are mostly reaction time based.

There is a lot of game knowledge and strategy involved, as well. High-level fighting game play is no joke. It is dominated by Asians for a reason.

>RTS games are mostly carpal tunnel based.

Almost like learning a musical instrument, in my opinion. Honestly RTS games are my favorite: they are just the right blend of strategy and dexterity to not make them boring. The only problem with RTS games is how long it takes to master the basic mechanics. It is, like I said, almost like mastering an instrument in difficulty.

>Hardcore strategy/wargames are turn based for a reason

Unfortunately the only game to match SCII's level of fame is chess. TBS games aren't usually that competitive.

This, Fortnite is unironically one of the highest skill games out there right now. I still can't build or edit for shit and Ive been playing for a while. One of the reasons I enjoy the game is how much you can improve.

I was also one of the boomers who initially thought the game was shit because popular = bad.

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This. Actual flight sims modeling proper dynamics will get you players who have years of experience flying and have a good understanding of ACM, who will always be leagues better than new pilots who will struggle to understand combat in 3 dimensions. New pilots simply have no hope of downing guys with years spent in flight sims.

Rocket League

I honestly can't respect anything "esport" coming from Valve, considering the insane amount of cheating in these games -even from the so called "pros".

Fuck CS, it was always trash.

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>nonsensical spasm aka "counter strafing"
>peaking aka showing your shoulder or committing
>unique aim and recoil system
>same maps for 18 years
I've given up CS, I consider it only an arcade game/semi puzzle at this point

the way it lights up when the resource changes, it's hte little things...

you're free to play shitty maps at any time

Starcraft is way easier to get better at.
Fighting games are fun at any lvl of skill
Both are dominated by koreans with 20 years of experience and daily practice

S4 League

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>de_nuke is good I swear look at those pick rates

Real professional race car drivers compete in iRacing leagues.
youtube.com/watch?v=owYsnGbpAJA

>Private meme server

>fighter trannies are here to cope
Thread's done, pack it up

the key skill in proper flight simulators is Situational Awareness
the player with the better SA wins

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>Ka50
>flying at high alt
>among enemy aircraft

Yeah, I think tactics and some actual knowledge of how helos are supposed to behave in enemy airspace might helped there.

Rocket League. Nothing comes even close.

>roll braindead barbarian troll or equivalent combo that kills everything with normal melee attacks while having a ridiculous health pool and regen
>auto-explore and murder everything
so hard

TF2, to a certain extent

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If you can call clicking heads "aiming"
Not sure how can anyone take hitscan shooters seriously

But you have to run a bunny hop script and also constantly switch to your knife for no reason. It’s hard, dude.

>private server
>clip from 2015-early 2016

>thing I not like is tranny thing

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>playing on official servers
it's like you want to play with aim/wh/spinbots every match, faceit/esea or get out

Oh wow holdovers are so hard. Fag.

>bloom still unfixed
>hitbox lag still unfixed
>shotguns are still broke (exemple: the ebin 8 damage in blue when you clearly shot someone in the head)
>you can simply spam build around you to protect yourself, forcing the other player to start building a shitty tower which then leads into full fucking randomness of editing and constantly grasping at getting a high ground
>game balance will be broken because developers seemingly forget that the game they made to be just fun needs to be competitive because the dumbass community wanted it

shut the fuck up, stop giving Epic money and support and fucking snap out of your artificial reality that it's a good game, i got a friend who plays it competitively and he constantly complains about the issues about the game

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>posting shitty outdated csgo webms
>when real serious issues remain unfixed since at least 2017
old.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/7xrxei/animation_hitreg_bug_server_does_not_reliably/?st=jw46b7yn&sh=2f268cda
youtube.com/watch?v=LGATjsjlJiM

Holdovers?
Are you implying shooting a bullet with gravity and wind resistance isn't harder then firing a laser?

you have autism

the terrorist is literally by himself in the team

Good luck convincing the retards that play games like CS and Siege that tracing a target with an accurate weapon takes more skill than spraying a gun at the general area of their head and waiting for the recoil to instantly kill them

"Go" the board game, developed in China a couple thousand years ago. Nobody since has made a game where the player has more options.

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Rhythm Games
>playing multiplayer games
have fun getting stomped while carrying your braindead team
youtube.com/watch?v=VDSA7Txb0nU

>its the only game where human players can still reliably beat AI.

I fucking wish we had a battle royale with Gunz gameplay.

>In fact, numerical estimates show that the number of possible games of Go far exceeds the number of atoms in the observable universe.
I still can't comprehend this

is this bait or legit zoomer retardation? i guess quake has no skill since it's mostly hitscan weapons

It was until 2017 what Google's AlphaGo AI beat the world champion.

>laser beam

people who S rank speedcore songs have to have actual superhuman ability.

Guess were fucked then

Nobody has actually mastered the game fully and AI began outplaying masters in Go in 2015.

Quake is mostly rocket launchers.

The Lightning gun had to be held on to a player for a few seconds and quake has faster player movement then CS/siege

>blowsu
>skill
lmao

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THAT'S comfy to you?

>but muh one taps
Wake me up when fps finally ad weight to characters so they don't move in full kit as if they were in an aerobic video

Based post.

This is why Yea Forums hates them

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>top pros have a win rate of 50-60%
>skillz
k bud

is leaning back like this some kind of actual interrogation technique?

arma

>bunny hop script
>not just binding jump to your mousewheel

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S4 looks like it aged like a bag of chips.

i just can't git gud at go
also how the fuck do you deal with 3-3 played behind your 4-4?
it's just safe territory?
i don't get the point of playing 4-4 if at any moment you can lose all the points in the angle like that

Best post ITT. CS pros are like "natty" bodybuilders. For every legit good 1 there at least 9 others that are cheating. I stopped caring about it and esports in general when Flusha's fat ass wasn't kicked for blatant cheats

That had absolutely nothing to do with what I said; did you reply to the wrong person?

why the fuck are you bringing up nu-R6 like it's equivalent to CS? do people actually consider nubisoft garbage to be competitive?
movement is more important than aiming imo and is a large part of the skill of playing FPS. you're looking for more simulator stuff, try ARMA or rainbow six 3
i figured you were talking about games with ballistic simulation since you said "tracing a target with an accurate weapon" while shit-talking CS, what exactly were you referring to

Accurate as in bullets always go where you shoot them without any random spread/bloom, especially when said randomness can instantly net you a kill against a player who has better aim.

*has more than 50 ping to you and covers screen with shotgun pellets*

CS has no random spread. CS has never had random spread.

>CS has no random spread. CS has never had random spread.
Yes it does, and yes it has.

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And if you meant to say "random recoil," it had that too.

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Yeah, fag. When everyone has lasers and you're at close range and every shot becomes increasingly consequential as your loaded ammo count dwindles and their teammates come to assist them. As you calculate where they most probably are, and what angle and how wide you need to peak, and where your crosshair should be both to compensate for immediate rise and dynamically as the weapons spray goes in every direction.

Without a doubt

Starcraft Broodwar

You all know it's true.

SC2 is good too.

this

not sure what the first figure represents exactly but there were exactly 4 spray patterns for each gun in 1.6 and good players could tell what the pattern was by the time it started to differentiate (4 shots?) to me this does not qualify as random
it's peek you fucking mountainous faggot

tetris, twinkle star sprites, cotton boomerang, sfz3, mvc2, melty blood, puyo puyo tetris. fps kiddy games require no skill.

>sfz3

FUCKING LOL

youtube.com/watch?v=mhO7Ifh9ABw

melty, puyo tetris, and twinkle star are literal memes

autism =/= skill
though i do like a bit of autism in my diet

>autism =/= skill
not an argument

>being bad at TSS
pathetic

>There is a luck element to garbage FPS games such as CS
FTFY

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go download IVAN and see how that goes for you
fun fact: there are people who can win every single time without failure

>dice roll hit detection is skill

This for me.

This for 1v1 multiplayer

Pic related for team-based multiplayer

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If you think copypasting an action sequence is skill, then rhythm games require the most skill of any genre.

Aiming is the most basic skill in CS. Its like execution in fighting games, any retard can be excellent at it and still be a shitter.

You sure like downplaying "execution" despite frothing whenever people criticize it.

are you implying that Yea Forums is one person, you fucking moron?

Good reaction and execution is a skill, so is decision making, so is planning, so is creative effective problem solving. Theres no one skill to rule them all, and games cant focus on testing all of them to their absolute limit at once either.

execution is important in fighting games as is aiming in FPS but it's much less important than using your brain, you can be a master of micro in starcraft but if you're retarded you're still shit at the game

Tekken

prove me wrong

at high level play high noon is a garbage level ult, try again

It doesn't take any effort for the developer to make a game require more execution though, so games like Starcraft, CS, and fighting games are just games made by shitty developers using shortcuts to make them seem deeper than they are.

Prolly titanfall 2 or morhau

AI has been able to beat humans at every game since around 2017, when the best human player of Go lost to AI
newatlas.com/ai-2017-beating-humans-games/52741/

Only because no other race besides the Korean can stomach the amount of repetition required to master the game. They literally clump themselves in gaming houses to train 12 hours a day for years.

damn, back in the day I was UNSTOPPABLE

I'm 1.7k hours into cs and I unironically still use it to swap weapons. I also quickswitch the awp with it.

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Mahjong

Firstly who gives a rats ass about how much effort it took? If it works, it works. Secondly in fighting games the execution is used for balancing purposes and has to be tested, and in rts/fps its just a natural consequence of the game mechanics. It adds depth and raises the skill ceiling/gap which reduces the luck factor in action games.

at high level play overwatch is still a joke though

lol

The very existence of Winston disproves this.

the meta's garbage but that doesn't mean it doesn't take an enormous amount of skill and coordination on top of having to memorize and keep track of 12 people's cooldowns amid the clusterfuck of lights and colors on the screen thanks to the shit unclear visual design

>Firstly who gives a rats ass about how much effort it took?
It means that the games' success isn't due to their actual gameplay. Their low effort designs could easily be executed better, but that won't lead to success because the originals are only popular as a result of brand loyalty that first emerged in a less competitive video game market.

>games' success
Not that guy, but it's just too blatant.

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Baseless claim which also implies that people dont enjoy the execution aspect in games which is silly

Racing simulators

i love the seething gatekeeping cs fags. cs games havent been and will never be good.

t. absolute no-skill trashbag

do you enjoy fps

Hardcore racing sims (anything upward of GT/Forza/Dirt) require both a lot of knowledge, skill, and endurance. Top tier players (often real racers) are basically untouchable by the average player.

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>used to play Go with this vietnamese girl I thought was cool
>we would share a share a chair in the computer room to play Go
>I liked her a lot and we got held hands a lot
>she ended up growing up into a really horrible person

Not sure where I was going, just reminded me of Go.

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horrible how? simply obnoxious with too many vices or real psycho?

>19x19 board (361 cells)
>3 possible states for each cell (white, black, none)
So 3^361 (3.26*10^458) possible board states before you start whittling down which board states are impossible.

For a very rough estimate of number of games, cells^ is 361^211 (4.31*10^539). Of course as the game goes on the number of cells to play decreases but I forgot the math for that (361!/150! ?). The large numbers come from using a 19x19 board instead of an 8x8 one like chess.

I've never played go and don't know the rules.

Keep in mind that not every possible piece combination board state is "possible" since anything encircled gets cleared.
Even then I can easily imagine it going that high because exponents

rocket league
mobas are neverending, infinitely updated digital cancer

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She started to get more attractive and started to toy with guys, some of them were friends. Like, she dated this one guy and he really put out all the stops to really try and make things work.

And she dated him for the 'thrill of pushing him away.' Stuff like that, general asshattery.

>epic abandoned this for fortnite and running their chink botnet store

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Just for comparison, number of atoms in the known universe is 10^78 to 10^82 (I like how we've only narrowed it down to 4 orders of magnitute, "yeah it could be anywhere between 100,000 and 10, I don't know"). So you're going to have to whittle down those numbers a fuckton.

Arena shooters are just like fighting games
That's why they aren't popular anymore because cunts want that lucky shot, beginners luck.

For their day the Myst games.
For multi-player most def starcraft.

Alien isolation in vr on the hardest difficulty is a true test of patience.

Why Starcraft? Genuinely curious

>muh hard quack
I play Quake Live regularly and you're full of shit. The reason AFPS games die is because they are boring as fuck to git gud at. Timing the red and yellow shirt and the blue ball aren 't fun. Snowballs aren't fun. Shitty maps like Blood Run and Aero Walk aren't fun

jedi knight

>they can suddenly recognize when the recoil is slightly different from the last bullet they fired and their brain keys them into what recoil pattern its in
L O L. do you actually believe this shit? never seen this said once, not even by the best to have ever played the game.

League is shit

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>lol
>laughing out loud

this

Pretty much every competitive game has the highest skill ceiling because they are all infinite. You can't reach a skill ceiling

I've been a fighting game man all my life, but I always felt Brood War was the most galaxy brain infinite skill ceiling game around.
tl.net/blogs/429573-broodwar-and-starcraft-2-pathing
The game at a high level is wild enough at face value with how much game knowledge and multitasking it requires, but advanced play like pathing abuse really pushes it close to the execution realm as fighting game shit like kara/option select/charge partitioning/negative edge and Melee tech like DI/SDI/Z-Powershield/velocity canceling. An arms race of breaking games like that and still having them be even remotely enjoyable for anyone involved in a competitive environment is really fascinating.

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