Fighting Games

I played SFV for the first time today, Yea Forums. Well - the first time since the BETA in 2015. My local arcade got the cabs in and I decided to try it out.

It was ok.

Because they're 1v1 in a tiny box and that's the whole game, and even genre.

the most brainlet response of the decade

Being semi-decent at fighting games requires the same time and dedication as learning an instrument.

Fighting games that aren't 3D are dogshit
fuck shit like Street Fighter 2 or Guilty Gear. Soul Caliber 2 and Virtual Fighter should've set the modern standard but no let's play the one where you can't move to the side

Are there any decent boxing games?

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3D games are for the absolute braindead.

Because there shit tier games made for autism filled faggots.
>Carpal tunnel
Stop playing for 20 hours a day.
>high skill ceiling
You keep telling yourself chimp PFFT HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>steep learning curve
Trained monkeys can play your garbage games.
It's shit
>I played SFV for the first time today
Congratulations you now have autisim!
I agree why did you post that?
>Being semi-decent at fighting games requires the same time and dedication as learning an instrument.
About the same as blowing a guys head off...not very much.

Enjoy being MASSIVE FAGGOTS!

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That's a total lie you can buttom mash your way to C rank in most games. Usually online the better connection wins

>That's a total lie you can buttom mash your way to C rank in most games. Usually online the better connection wins
The only game I can think of with letter rankings is SFIV and C rank is BP which is simply shitter grind that goes up arbitrarily. PP was the real ranking and most shitters get stuck a 1000 which is bronze or silver

Why ever been in real fight? You have can move left and right to avoid punches not in shit lord fighting games like you like. Def Jam: Fight for NY shits all over all the games they play at evo

what the fuck was that Ref's problem?

You can also play three chords on a guitar and play a hit song, I think its a good analogy.

Nope. Instruments are harder.
>t. violinfag, guitarfag and fighterfag

Learning to play an instrument and learning to play a song are two different things I can play hot cross buns on the piano don't mean I even know what keys I'm hitting

fpbp

Okay, sounds like button mashing

sniffed too much

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i don't like em because people mostly leave when you get first combo off on them.

Dude, dont post monkeys on this board

god I can tell you're so fucking lonely

>video games
>real fight

Wish me luck. I just got Smash ultimate and its my first fighting game

Um other genres improve real life skills memes asides FPSes made me much better at handling and shooting firearms. Racing games taught me proper drifting, good fighting games made me better at fighting. RTSes taught me proper strategies for war. Cooking mama taught me how to cook. Have you not been paying attention to what you've been wasting your life on?

No, I play video games for the cute girls.

Because you can't blame a team when you lose.
You have to own up to your losses and everyone's an eggshell bitch about stuff like that now.

>RTSes taught me proper strategies for war
Are you dumb
>Cooking mama taught me how to cook
yes you are, you are really really dumb

That's pretty gay bro

I've played Skullgirls for 1000 hours and the first time I got in a street fight I literally did the entire Big Band Happy Birthday combo and sent a guy to the hospital

Nigga what have you played cooking mama, it shows your ingredients and measurements I have personally made food with it and it's good

Because they aren't intuitive, have a steep skill floor, you can't group up with your friends to ease past that skill floor, and the netcode is almost always complete shit. People like to jerk themselves off in these threads for having basic knowledge of how to play a niche genre, but learning basic shit isn't hard, it's just a lot more time-consuming than other genres and people on the fence are going to pass on it because of that.

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ebin

>1on1 where you often can't even talk to your opponent leads to more anxiety than team-based games where you can literally have people screaming at you and get kicked from the game because you made a bad play or had a bad match
Uh-huh, whatever you say.

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>Wait wtf this girl has a bigger dick than me??

>you can't group up with your friends to ease past that skill floor
What?

Cooking mama doesn't explain the chemistry necessary to make good food. When to fold, whisk, or simply stir can change a lot of dishes especially pastries. Understanding the consistency you want for a dish can make or break it. You don't want to cook vegetables until they get mushy and that is harder to do than it sounds even for basic bitch dishes. Unless you're used to eating fast food and microwave shit Cooking Mama isn't suitable for teaching anything besides learning grade schooler recipes that don't come out too great.

Do you somehow keep missing the faggot posting MK11 threads that get 200+ replies?

Whats better, an autist's wet dream or casual not-necessarily-balanced 4-player(All team configs available) free for all

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based

Nigga what? Who you think you are Gordon Ramsay? Walter White? You either fry it, saute it, or bake it, literally picking the highest quality ingredients and getting the proper measurements and watching it cook the whole time instead of fucking off away from the stove will impact the taste infinitely more than the speed you stir it. Does your mom even let you use the stove?

The best fighting games are 4 player simultaneous, anyone who disagrees had no friends and more importantly has never had fun before

This is basic cooking dude. Every family does it that isn't some ghetto trash. I haven't met a single ethnicity that doesn't do some semi-complex cooking for home cooking.

Just learn to box or something instead of being a faggot on a console.

You can't get carried by other people

Based. In team games you can offset the responsibility of your errors onto others. In fighting games you can only blame yourself.

I'm saying that it's a lot easier to convince people to pickup games when they can group up with their friends, especially when their friends can ease them into it and teach them in a more engaging way than boring tutorials or youtube videos. People who wouldn't care enough to pick it up on their own or who don't want to invest time in learning a game like Dota 2 will pick it up anyway and invest hundreds of hours in it, even solo, because their friends play it and got them into it.

It's mostly memorizing combos. Not fucking up at inputs maybe takes a month or two if you don't play fighting games regularly. The rest is mindgames and knowledge of other characters' moves.
There's barely any variety, story doesn't matter and it's not the type of game where you can relax or pay minimal attention to it.

You can literally do that by playing lobbies with your friends? What?

It's not just the learning curve or competition. The gameplay itself is very repetitive. It's just not that much fun past a certain point and it becomes a rhythm exercise or at worst a chore.

>semi complex
Setting the proper Angle of the wisp is some Top Chef shit. Do you realize how much you can learn from observation. Ever what goodeats that goober taught me plenty about cooking. Can you even grill a steak?
The best food comes from the South and those people ARE retarded

Yes I can cook a steak

>replying to that many people
no one cares, get over yourself

because none of them are even close to the quality of old capcom fighters.

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people like team games so they have people to blame when they fuck up

No team to blame for your loss like in other genres

True, but there's an obvious difference between teaming up with your friends as they show you some dumb shit you can do to fuck over the enemy team and win, and your friend trying his hardest to spoonfeed you everything you need to know about the game so he can stop expending so much effort in not blowing you the fuck out. I've helped people get into fighting games and, though everything's still enjoyable with friends, matches can feel very awkward against new players when the skillgap is large enough. Team-based games don't really have that issue.

Because it's a fucking pain in the ass to learn all the combos for each character.

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How is that different from any other competitive game/sport?

Mishimas have taken me 3 years to get semi decent with so yeah fighting games take sooo much time and energy

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Why would you need to learn all the combos for each character? Not even pros know that.

because regardless as to how many playable characters they give and how many gimmicks they tack onto their game, the core mechanics of fighting games are only as sophisticated as a flash game. In fact there are many fighting games that ARE flash games.

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No depth, autistic fanbase.

What's the fighting game you had most fun with this gen, Yea Forums?
For me it's Killer Instinct followed by Tekken 7

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So what do you do? Just play 1 character? You need to practice with different ones to see what you like either way.

The only reason people like the specific fighting games they do now, like Tekken, Soul Calibur, Smash, Street Fighter, Skull Girls, Guilty Gear etc. Is because they have awesome memorable characters. Any other fighting game that doesn't go out of their way to make awesome characters with cool designs wether they're sexy, macho, badass, or all of the above, will instantly be forgotten. Take every fucking fighting game that's been a startup over the past couple of years, they use other franchise's characters like that indie game brawler = boring uninspired roster, or have shitty uninspired designs like Brawlhalla. All you need is an awesome memorable roster/cast of characters, with great art, like Street Fighter and such, with decent enough fighting mechanics. Yet all these indie companies fail to realize that

>Loads of effort to be mediocre
>Single player is generally shit, so you have to learn the basics against other players
>Only have 1v1 fights, usually in stages that don't change up how the game plays the way fps or rts maps do

>play the character you like
>go to arcade mode to get used to his moves and specials
>go to training mode/challenge mode to see how those moves combine with each other.
>watch some matches of good players on youtube
>apply the knowledge you gained to online matches
>if something fucks you up real bad, ask advise online or set training dummy to repeat that.

That's all there is to it.

Yes? At least to start it's better to focus on only one character. You can try a few but you don't have to learn all the advanced combos for all characters at once just to try them.

God I wish V's combat would be as good as his looks.

>game becomes good after 300 hours
Thats why. It takes a special needs personality to enjoy the "climb".

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this is the attitude of someone with no skills

How do you beat bison in SF5? A character with highest win ratio online and all moves safe on block?
>inb4 by playing
Wrong. You have to search on youtube and memorize which his moves actually have openings in them.

This is bad game design. Unsafe moves which dont look unsafe is one of many reasons why people give up playing these games. Because not even by playing you learn how to defeat bizon or cammy. Part of gameplaying is watching youtube these days. Fun.

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>Part of gameplaying is watching youtube these days. Fun.
Nothing stops you from going to lab and find those opening and whatnot by actually playing.

Lab is not fun user. If the game isnt fun, why even bother?

Good games dont even have tutorials. They teach the player simply by progressing through main campaign and by progressively adding new and new features while slowly increasing difficulty.

Ever wondered why there isnt a single fighting game on any top100 games list? Because from game design they are awful.

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Nice try

You need a really high amount of autism to play those games

>horizontal rocket jumping
>juggling
>surfing damage
>c-tapping
>melle timing
why all this autism? All you need to do in these game is shoot fags in the head

>wanted to get into fighting games for a while because they sound cool
>started playing SFV, then UNIST and GG
>mostly offline, play a bit of SFV online but usually lose
>eventually play one match of UNIST online when I'd got my confidence up
>got fucking destroyed so badly in that one match I gave up on fighting games completely
Please convince me to try to get back into them. Part of me wants to play them and part of me doesn't.

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No team to blame for your loss
If you play offline, being a autist bitchboy with no social skills will get you clowned and tormented
High skill floor and higher skill ceiling

No innovations for decades. When developers try to innovate, the fans cry "It's not a real fighting game!". It's like the fans just want to keep playing games from their childhood over and over.

>girl

They don't sell themselves.
To me, the inherent appeal of beating somebody up in a fighting game is close to none. I would like to be into them, but I don't really like how they control out of the box, and the only way to get used to it is to just play them for long enough.
There are plenty of games with complex controls that could be turned into fighting games, and I would probably have fun playing them because I internalized the controls through the single player campaign.

Unless you're really, really sold on the premise or have a bunch of people close to you to play and learn the ropes with, getting into a fighting game is about as fun as learning an actually useful skill like drawing or speaking a foreign language. If Capcom made something like Street Fighter Adventures with a handful of characters going through a campaign designed to get you used to the controls and everything it would be a great starting point.
I know some fighting games already have campaigns, but they're just crappy sparring sessions were you either beat shitty AI or perform a laundry list of combos. Something like the trials at the end of Guacamelee, where you need to push every single technique to its limit to get to the end, is way more compelling.

because fighting games are the last bastion of being a game first.

>Try the virtua fighter arcade machine in yakuza kiwami 2
>Have no clue what I'm doing, eventually win a few matches by mashing buttons
Are all fighting games like this?

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The CPU is stupid to make people feel superior? Yes.

the version in kiwami has retarded ai

>That one time after hundreds of match where you're matched up with a competent Low/Bottom Tier main

You're retarded. You can just learn by playing, after you see a move try to press a button and see what happens. It's not so hard.

If you are new you will lose. If you can't accept that you should not play. You need to see matches as opportunities to learn rather than trying to win.

There are no tool tips for your character in fighting games and you have to actually lose to learn. This is apparently too demoralizing for most so they give up after not being able to beat the boss of an arcade mode.

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Please. Just go to the tutorial mode and then the challenge mode. Hell, you can even just skip to a game's challenge mode if you're ballsy. A considerable amount of Yea Forums are spergs that like to git gud and feel a nice challenge right? Why are fighting games suddenly kryptonite all of a sudden?

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Why arent they less popular?

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don't, if you can't handle loss then you aren't going to push yourself to get better and chances are you never play enough to learn from your mistakes

Post your main.

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Some fighting games have mission mode

Which?

>p-please don't pick him, h-he's very hard to learn!!!
I see through their wiles, and I know why.

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The answer is you don't actually need skill in single player games, they just make you think you do. But when you get stuck you can just find some way to cheese the game with grinding, some overlooked build, bug, ai quirk etc. In fighting games there's no such thing. You just have to actually git gud.

they still find shit to not blame themselves like
Cheap character, even when you play a low tier
Input didn't register
use a move when they didn't touch the controller
lags
you playing like a faggot because they can't counter a move

XRD for example

You're still gonna get crushed when you go online cause nothing can teach you fighting a human outside of actually doing it.

UNIST
Guilty Gear
BlazBlue
Dragon Ball FighterZ
BBTAG
Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 (but it's kinda shit)

They're all synonymously called something different though.

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I love this tomboy!

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I'll give these a try I guess, thanks for pointing them out.

The other user probably means combo challenges, which are much more diffused. I meant actual non combo missions that teach you techniques and stuff by putting you in a scenario where you have to perform the technique, punish a certain move etc. Of the game he said, xrd and unist have something like that, dbfz and mvc don't, don't know about the rest.

Labbing fighting games is fun as fuck dude. The more open the systems are the more fun it is. I put over 1000 hours into Marvel 3's training mode and enjoyed every minute of it, and I've put a couple hundred into DBFZ's at this point.

Eh. Learn the neutral first to prevent being murdered 100 times over. It's harmless to be an unironic wiki warrior on the Dustloop wiki when it comes to fightan. The wiki describing your preferred character of choice gives brief descriptions on move's properties and why they're either super good or super bad to use within certain situations.

But with shit like GG and especially BB in particular, it's better to know the miscellaneous properties of some characters via the wiki.

Definitely UNIST, BB and GG. UNIST is the top tier when it comes to that, though. That, or the Dustloop wiki itself. IIRC Dragonball and UMvC 3 doesn't have that.

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You cannot learn neutral without playing another human

That too obviously, but you can definitely lower the amount of times you're going to get bodied

Way too many much shit to deal with just to start enjoying them when with most other genres and games you can enjoy them out of the get-go

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you mean trap

>only fighting games I ever enjoyed was Tekken
>tfw you're not a clown and don't care about juggling in modern Tekken

They die on PC immediately, so the pc market avoids them unless they have consoles as well.

Also people are incapable of accepting the fact that the loss is squarely on their shoulders and nobody else's

also no friends

literally evry fighting game nowadays has characters designed for babies that cry about inputs. this isnt the time of contra anymore

If you haven't been playing fighting games for years consecutively, you're going to be way behind everyone else.

You'll have to spend months labbing just to even have a chance vs some low tier playing dude who picked the game up a few hours ago and can already mix you perfectly and has strings that take 50% of your life.

Just isn't worth the time.

Niggas don't wanna block

This. My friend that bitches about his team in Dota also bitches about how his character is low-tier, bitches about how cheap other low-tier characters are, and bitches that the game never registers his inputs properly or how he didn't press anything in Tekken. People in these threads just want to pat themselves on the back for playing fighting games.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

missing the point

Half the anime games are more alive on PC than console in europe and sfv has cross play

This is the same for every single competitive activity unless you think you can pick them up and beat veterans in 5 hours

ACCIDENT

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I'm a "veteran" at other genres of game, like FPS. Unless the game is extremely gimmicky, most fps I pick up, I'm pretty close to the top tier within a day or two. In siege I was diamond the same week I began and was actively queuing into pros and doing fine. In CS I had a 17 RWS and one of the top winrates on esea

My issue is that I'm not a veteran with fighting games, and the difference between me and them feels even greater than the difference between me and newbies at fps. Fighting games are infuriating when you're getting combos endlessly strung together on you because the person the game decided to match you against is 90-5 and has been playing actively for 10 years. Then you realize that guy is actually garbage.

Every game

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Well the idea of video games is that they're supposed to be fun.

people are idiots

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Well that's not a fighting games problem then, is it? It's just you playing fps as a kid instead of fighting games.

And games that are big enough like sfv have matchmaking so you should not be matched up with 10 year veterans when you start anyway. Rookie and bronze players are basically complete beginner mashers.

>Carpal tunnel

You can get carpal tunnel from just using a mouse and keyboard.
Do your wrist work outs, scrubs!

Fighting games are fucking retarded and the community is as well. Why would I want to be involved in this frame data reading autism just so I could hope to input a combo on some 13 year old only for it to fail because he fucked with his wifi?

hard fucking pass

I don't think it is accessibility or dificulty, infact I think fighting games are amongst the easiest and most accessible and simplistic competitive games. Even if you never played a game before you can start a match, immediatly understand the goal of the game by one glance at the screen, and mash random buttons at lower levels and have some success. Try doing that in any other game.
I don't buy "people don't like losing" either because other games are also full of terrible players with 20% win rates that yet still have thousand of hours. Similarly I don't get "It's a solo genre, you can't blame your team!" because there are other popular competitive 1v1 games and unpopular team games, I think it's irrelevant.

In my opinion it simply boils down to the fact other larger competitive games are primarily PC games that anyone can play with a mouse and keyboard and the majority are free to play (or cheap), In comparison fighting games are the complete opposite, they are primarily played on consoles (there hasn't been a major tournament for any game played on PC versions as far as I know), you have to buy a new version of the game every year or two, and it has the impression you need a stick to play (though that isn't stricly true)
This also affects the "e-sports" side of things because being console only severely limits sponsorships opportunities for pro players.

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>i'm bad and a retard who can't be bothered to matchmake with 4-5bars :((((

>(there hasn't been a major tournament for any game played on PC versions as far as I know)
Based newfag

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You misunderstood, which means you are the fucktard.

I had a guy I couldn't explain Guile's combos to because he thought the white arrow to the left of each command meant he had to tap right. Basically, he was dropping his charge before every single special input. Even after I told him exactly when and which buttons to hit, even after saying what he was doing wrong, he kept doing the same wrong inputs.

>half a dozen dweebs playing melty on a laptop on a parklot is equal to a major tournament of a major game
Based retard

I understood exactly what you posted.

are they playing on a fucking sidewalk?
shit like this always makes me laugh.
i remember reading about how Melee players had their setups in a hotel lobby or something while KoF players were on a laptop sitting on a steel chair in a boiler room.

> devs fail to teach the most basic properties of moves (invincibility frames, start up)
> there's no input as to why you got your ass handed to you and how to improve
> crouch blocking is awkward on pad
> little lag can make a match unplayable
> people treat any weird movement or even doing a combo as a sign of disrespect
> forums and chats are filled with drama
> match up knowledge requieres reacting, pure knowledge is not enough
> the FGC is filled with a bunch of elitist babies whit massive egos
> people either care too much about skill or care too much about tier lists
> pro players are assholes

Just from the top of my head I got these ones. Want me to continue?

You clearly didn't.

Back when melty was actualy new it was played in arcades in japan and the major tournaments ran the PS2 version.

>Even if you never played a game before you can start a match, immediatly understand the goal of the game by one glance at the screen, and mash random buttons at lower levels and have some success. Try doing that in any other game.
You can do that with FPS games. I can pray and spray drunk on CSGO and get top score in casual games.

You can play fighting games with a keyboard

that nigger is holding his piss tainted penus with his boxing gloves

>Pressing downback is awkward

Do you perchance work at Kotaku

this. it's the reason RTS and Arena shooters are dead too. no one wants to play a 1vs1 skill based game

im kinda glad I got into fighting games, its probably the most difficult and rewarding gaming experience I have ever witnessed. All those hours in the lab practising that one combo and you pull it off in a real match

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>ywn love your job as much as that ref

>the absolute degenerate, pissing with boxing gloves on
Easy to learn, hard to master
Caustic player base
Controls are still seen as a hinderence despite multiple generations of various input commands, controllers, modes, and so on.

It's like playing an MMO.

You either find a small community to play with or you drop it.

With fighting games its even a bit harder in that the community usually needs to be local with a fair bit of real interaction.

Why do you think the only American fighting game has a block button? Your American fellows can't crouch and hold back at the same time

Get over it and stop pretending you never had trouble with

>Get over it and stop pretending you never had trouble with
The absolute projecting lmao
pic related, it's you being a retard

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I'm not even American

You're just bad at video games. There's nothing wrong with it, just admit it and you'll feel better.

I was able to understand crouch blocking when i was fucking 8.
Neo-Yea Forums is absolutely trash at video games i fucking swear.

*df2's you*

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Because even though they are simple on the surface, they have a lot of depth underneath that most people just can't seem to grasp

youtube.com/watch?v=_R0hbe8HZj0

>liking cute girls
>gay
That user may be a pedo, but he isnt gay

>there's no input as to why you got your ass handed to you and how to improve
>people treat any weird movement or even doing a combo as a sign of disrespect
can you elaborate on these ones?
some of those are fair points but these are the most egregious ones to me

Why is it that people in fighting game threads exaggerate, and generalize so hard?

Everyone I've ever met that is super into fighting games is mentally ill or a neet, or both.

UNIST is 70% of psn by the way

Cherrypick

not him but people dont understand why theyre getting launched or whats framedata and frametraps so theyre constantly put into the "why can he do things but I can not" state. And about combos its like "he just hit me once and I lost more than half of my life wtf??". yes you can learn many things just by doing a little bit research online but if you go by the game only most games do not even have a tutorial so theyre not wrong calling the game stupid.

>MK11 selling incredibly well
>DBFZ sold incredibly well
>Tekken 7 sold incredibly well
>FGC events bigger than ever before
>Easier to find matches online than before, even PC
>Cygames about to invest a huge amount of money into the FGC
But Yea Forums is shit at fighting games, so there has to be something wrong with the genre.

Half you retards don't even know the features of most games, so many fighters have amazing tutorials now but you never play them and come on here to complain instead.

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You can't get carried in fighting games like you can in Dota.

FPS games are pointing and clicking. Next.

yea that was one of the points i agreed with, fighting game tutorials are notoriously awful and teach fuck all about how the game works, and it's only just now starting to get better

Because arcade fighting games were a neat concept back in mid 90s however nowadays all the magic has been lost and there's been zero innovation in the genre.

imagine how OP Balrog would be if he took off his boxing gloves

lol

>incredibly well
Yes, by fighting game standards. 4 million copies is absolute dogshit for a major FPS or sports franchise title.

>so many fighters have amazing tutorials now
The rest of your post is spot on but this bit simply isn't true. Your average fighting game have terrible tutorials for actually teaching new players and there are very few exceptions.

>mfw she still not in xrd

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what is surfing damage lol?

Not him but 4 million isn't dogshit by any stretch of the imagination, your average AAA FPS game has a higher budget than fighting games and it's basically impossible to not sell millions of copies of a sports game once you have exclusive license over the league franchise.

This, 1v1 games require a mentality that doesn't care about losing, which most people don't have, plus the high skill ceiling leads to people getting frustrated and rage quitting, which leads to more frustration and people just dropping the game

MKX sold 11 million life time. 4 million is better than most stuff does and that is only the first year for DBFZ. You just always move the goalpost on this one, first they don't sell and then every fighter isn't selling 10 million so they are dead.

Skullgirls, KI, UNIst, Guilty Gear and MK11 all have amazing ones. You could have literally picked up Skullgirls for $1 by now. Most games at least go over the basics now so you will have some idea of what is going on. If someone doesn't own any fighter with a good tutorial then they weren't looking for one.

Yeah, that totally explains why bison has the biggest online win ratio. Because people try to press buttons against him...

No lad, random button pressing wont you get anywhere against certain characters. Because they have so "GOOD" design nobody can tell whats happening until they look into frame data table. Same stuff with frame traps. Decieving player by animation which looks like its safe to act but the reality being the opposite.

Congrats i guess.

Unintuitive display of what to fucking do to make X combo. Another hurdle. Z motions, charge inputs, you need youtube video as a begginer to grasp the concept. Bad game design. At least bad representation in the picture. Even 234234 allpunches would be less confusing that what that video shows.

He meant wifi various which often have unstable ping amywhere from 10 to 300 and 600 if anybody turns their microwave to heat up food or worse: lag switchers which turn on lags when they are on losing end. No 5 bar filter helps against these.

Bragging about learning ability as a small kid is the opposite of bragging. Small kids learn how to speak new language, play on piano or how to do Z motion uppercut into half circle hard donkey kick into two qc special in so little time. Because brain plasticity. Find somebody who picked fighting games at 30 and get good at them. That will be achievement worth of fame.

The games are missing some sort of replay after each time you lose. It should pick the moment where you lost the most HP and show you in slowmo hurtboxes, hitboxes and frame data or ideally what you should do instead. But most games dont even show hurtboxes.

People love to buy games these days. Not to actually play them. Look at any concrete numbers or just on achievement completion.

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>Not him but 4 million isn't dogshit by any stretch of the imagination
Have you even looked at Activision's EAs or Ubisoft's sales expectations in the past decade? 4 million copies sold would be a complete disaster for literally any mainstream franchise.
>your average AAA FPS game has a higher budget than fighting games
non-sequitur
>it's basically impossible to not sell millions of copies of a sports game once you have exclusive license over the league franchise
How is this in any way relevant? You're not even arguing against my claim at this point, just making excuses for the comparatively poor fighting game sales, you fucking brainlet.

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If you put this amount of effort into actually playing fighting games you could win evo

Bros i wish i was her tail

>If someone doesn't own any fighter with a good tutorial then they weren't looking for one.
Yeah because people new to fighting games are looking for games based on their tutorial, not how popular or how fun they think those games are to play. What an idiotic statement.

Fight night round 4

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>MKX sold 11 million life time
11 million units since 2015, across 3 platforms, hundreds of sales is fucking nothing for an AAA title, stop embarrassing yourself.

>or ideally what you should do
you act like there's only 3 or 4 things that can happen in a game
there is no possible way for the game itself to be able to determine what you "should have done" because the game doesn't understand strategy, it's just making your inputs do shit on the screen

Also you don't need all that shit to understand what you did wrong, especially at lower levels. All you need is some critical thinking, "oh, when i pressed square at this range, i missed and he got a full combo on me for missing, maybe i shouldn't press square at that range" and so on.

Frame data really only becomes important at higher levels, although learning it early on can help you stomp shitters

>people new to fighting games are looking for games based on their tutorial
Judging on the amount of people in this thread demanding them? Yes that is a point people judge off, plus in any FG thread when people ask what game is good to get into a common response is X has a good tutorial. I named 2 traditional fighters, a anime game, marvel style game and a hybrid so at least one of those will interest somebody. If someone so desperately needs an in depth tutorial they have enough options.

4 million copies would only be a disaster for AAAA games with a 9 digit budget and major licensed games are guaranteed those sales. It's more than adequate for just about every other type of AAA game especially ones with a relatively smaller budget like fighitng games have. Also don't use terms like "non-sequitur" when it's clear you don't know what they mean, it just makes you look like a brainlet.

Pointing out facts that refute your asinine claim isn't "making excuses". You have nothing of relevancy to say.

>hundreds of sales
>11 million units

stop embarrassing yourself

Fighting games are pretty hard to actually master.
You've gotta consider what your character's capable of, what your opponent's capable of, matchups, combos, frame data, all that.
And that's before we even get into the mindgame side of things.

Plus...
You can't blame your teammates for your failures.
Can't blame the other guy for being straight up better than you.
Ain't nobody to blame but yourself.
Unless our Dee Ess Pee.

While this has been true in the past, tutorials have been getting much better. Some of the best ones are in anime fighters like guilty gear rev 2, Unist, and skull girls.

Thats the thing. Shitposting about fighters is more fun than trying to climb from ultra bronze :-)

Block
Low block
Tech / grab
Jump
There are only 4 options if you exclude the high skill tier ones like parry, sidestep, jab to interrupt or knowledge your X move has armor / invincibility on frame 1 so its safe to burst through.

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You are severely deluded if you think the number of people pointing out how fighting game tutorials are lacking and are aware games with good ones (many of these people are already familiar with fighting games) scale to the number of casuals and newcomers to the genre looking for a fighting game to play. With the exception of Mortal Kombat the games you listed are all niche fighting games, your average casual isn't looking to pick up a fighting game with a small scene based on the quality of its tutorial. The fact is the people who are in desperate need of an in depth tutorial are not the ones demanding them. It's like you forgot the whole purpose of tutorials in the first place.

Meant for

>4 million copies would only be a disaster for AAAA games with a 9 digit budget
>It's more than adequate for just about every other type of AAA game especially ones with a relatively smaller budget like fighitng games have
We're not arguing about profit margins, you drooling mongoloid. We're arguing about the popularity of the genre expressed through COPIES SOLD, ie how many people are/are not interested in buying fighting games. I swear 4channel has become visibly dumber.

esl retard

>hundreds
>million
speak for yourself

when will the lanklets learn

Fighters are only unpopular in the eyes of trend chasers. The type of person who played OW for ages cause everyone else was doing it. All this they are so hard, no team etc isn't the reason. if it was the "in" thing they would do it.

SF4 was that game for a long time. How could you say fighters aren't big? SF4 keeps having big new editions and the 5 players normies can name are all their doing well. The FGC was actually smaller then that it is now, but it appeared to be the in thing so it was big. SFV was a failure sales wise (at first anyway, it has reached 3 million after a few years so it is in did okay territory), also rightly earned a lot of bad press. But the game actually has more competitors than SF4 had, it is failing to grow but it is still actually bigger. Meanwhile games like Tekken are seeing huge growth, in many ways following a similar path to SF4. But if you are just a trend chase then SFV isn't a bandwagon you got on, and Tekken 7 never became a big enough meme. You can't even name the players so why bother? Smaller games are generally doing better than ever, UNIst's rise is great to watch.

Fighters need a new big meme game cause you guys can't think for yourselves.

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fpbp
>also you need friends and / or people willing to sit next to you for longer than five minutes for it to be truly enjoyable

The word "sale" has more than one meaning, cretin.

>units
>sales
esl cretin

>there are only 4 options
in what situation?
i can't think of a single moment where those are the only options you have. In every fighting game i've played every single moment allows for dozens of different decisions.

There’s a slight possibility GBF Vs could be that game. Who knows how many players might come out of the woodwork for CyGames’ gacha money.

>He still hasn't been able to muster enough brainpower to infer the meaning of "sale" used in the post
I can't help you, you're too stupid to have this discussion.

>brainlet is still moving goalposts and trying to blame his lack of intelligence on others

>With the exception of Mortal Kombat
Yeah your entire argument falls apart here. When Mortal Kombat has an amazing one, and your point is that casuals aren't being exposed to good tutorials you are talking nonsense. You are just making excuses. Fighters need tutorials? Here they are including an extremely high profile game.

> your average casual isn't looking to pick up a fighting game with a small scene
Your average casual isn't basing anything on a scene.

>The fact is the people who are in desperate need of an in depth tutorial are not the ones demanding them
Then they don't actually care about having one do they. Most casuals ignore and skip tutorials in most games, you really think Chad is going to sit through a few hours of explaining frame data? He just wants to button mash in arcade mode. The issue is not tutorials but convincing people they want to go online and take this game seriously. Plenty of multiplayer games that blew up only added in game help way later down the line, pretty much all require extra studying to be up to date on the meta. If people have the fire to compete they find a way.

>We're not arguing about profit margins, you drooling mongoloid.
What do you think the point of sales are, you massive retard? A game with a $800m budget that sells 10m copies isn't more successful than a game that sells 1m but only had a budget of $5m. No shit games with major franchises attached to them like Star Wars and FIFA are going to sell more than fighting games, along with everything else. 4channel has become visibly dumber because idiots like you bring this website's collective IQ down to subzero.

I might be called a brainlet but I feel most modern fighting games have too many moves and combos to memorize

Well, you kind of are. Games have generally seen a trend of reducing complexity, options and variety in combos. We're in the kiddie pool already and you're asking if we can move to a puddle.

You are

>where AUDIENCE
>where SPONSORS
>where DORITO KING MAN
>this NO COUNT

back in the berg, Grug.

You probably are one.

My argument "falls apart" because of one game amongst a sea of popular fighting games with bad tutorials happens to have a good one? You really are delusional. Especially if you think your average casual isn't gravitating towards the most popular games, you know the ones with the most active scenes.

>Most casuals ignore and skip tutorials in most games
And when they get rocked online you think they're just as likely to drop the game with a proper tutorial than one without? You think people are more likely to go online and take the game seriously if they have to read up wikis and fish for tech on discord channels rather than the game itself teaching them how to play?

>Plenty of multiplayer games that blew up only added in game help way later down the line
Those games blew up because the people playing them already understood the fundamentals of how to play them, and the people that don't are able to rely on those that do to carry them. We're not talking even talking about the meta, but teaching players the fundamentals of how to play fighting games instead of convincing themselves its all about memorizing the most complex combo in order to win.

They require skill and heart, which 95% of the population doesn't and will never have even a semblance of

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>Having to learn the game is bad design

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Fighting on a 2D plain with nothing else to do is kinda boring.

>dozen
Even then, its piece of cake implement list of these 10 options and then make the game show you the moment you ate an overhead or jumping hard kick and list you all of possible things you could have done instead of the gigantic text
>YOU LOST
At least it would change instead of seeing the same lose screen and the same losing / winning pose of character you have seen thousands of times before.

Or show statistic. Like how many % of players lost to the same move, how likely it is for your enemy to use this move and how many % times players sucessfuly block this move.

Anything is better than YOU LOST YOU LOSER screen. No need to throw additional salt at the already salty player.

>Why ever been in real fight?
yeah man I was in a real fight just like your 3d games. A scimitar wielding skeleton was trying to chop me head off but luckily I was able to jump 30 feet up into the air and avoid him as he swung and luckily he fell out of the ring.

>Fighting games where you have to fight is kinda boring

1 - people hate losing
2 - people want instant sucess
3 - >what's quarter circle forward
4 - people don't evaluate why they lost and brush it off as "got lucky" or "that character is busted"

>Pro-Nintendo image is also Pro-Stadia

what did he mean by this?

>People love to buy games these days. Not to actually play them. Look at any concrete numbers or just on achievement completion.
It's more like
>Have the money to play games
>No longer have the time or energy to play them.

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That's not what I ment. There are no maps, no objectives, nothing besides mastery of the characters.
Many people dislike this.

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>because of one game amongst a sea of popular fighting games with bad tutorials happens to have a good one?
No, because the fighter with the most casual exposure also has one of the best tutorials. If the issue is good tutorials aren't getting into the hands of casuals then MK11 solves that issue. It will reach more casuals than pretty much all fighters this gen combined by the time it stops selling. You have a non issue, getting good tutorials out if a solved issue, getting good tutorials to casuals is a solved issue.

>And when they get rocked online you think they're just as likely to drop the game with a proper tutorial than one without?
Yes, because there is no data showing that a fighter with tutorial has better retention rates. No casual goes what the fuck I got beat better go study all the frame data. When does that ever happen in normal games? You don't see someone go wow this boss is hard better go replay the tutorial. They drop it. You are not actually thinking about casuals act, you're hoping if you throw enough books at them they will read and learn something. It does not work, you are assuming everyone will be a receptive willing source naturally and that will give them the passion to stick around. That is backwards, you have to get people seriously invested first and then they will do whatever they can to learn.

You know what game lacks a serious tutorial? SmashU, the game that has already sold a stupid amount and is doing amazing competitively. Because people were already invested, the brand pulls them in and they can muck about having fun before going hey I want to get good.

>Those games blew up because the people playing them already understood the fundamentals of how to play them
That's bollocks, most big multiplayer games are filled with kids who have barely played anything before.

Fighting games require a much larger investment in effort and time before they become enjoyable. I'm not even talking about winning, I'm talking about engaging gameplay. Even when a player learns the basics and has a ~50% win rate at lower levels the mind games and strategy that actually make the game rewarding are out of reach. Until that point it's mostly a game of mindless execution and luck,

Because women don't play them.

You want something to become immensely popular? Women need to have an interest in it.

Fighting games are better when they're niche and stay niche. Everyone knows MVC2 and likes to watch it, despite it arguably being one of the hardest fighting games to execute well in. Everyone knows Third Strike and likes to watch it, despite it being a difficult game to execute in. The worst thing that happens from a game being difficult is it weeds out the beginners but makes the beginners interested in watching. SF4 and Tekken 7 were/are both in these good spaces, where they are still considered difficult to execute in while adopting some casual-friendly things like Ultras and Rage Arts.

Tekken 7 is currently the best game out. Play Tekken 7.

>Everyone knows MVC2 and likes to watch it
Not really a great example, not everyone enjoys watching Storm/Cable/Magneto/Sentinel.

I have literal numbers that prove you wrong: twitter.com/DakotaCox/status/1127746603228340224

>that pic

Good. Also, is it actually possible for a mant to get natural tits transplanted on him? Otherwise you'd have to cosplay Poison with a vagina and tits.

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This is why games like overwatch are still popular despite being shit.

What's a good character to learn Tekken? Since shit doesn't have a tutorial. Is Rucky Chroe good to learn? Or do I have to pick Jin?

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One popular fighting game having a good tutorial doesn't solve the issue of the vast majority of popular fighting games having bad ones. As popular as it is most casuals aren't going to be playing MK11.

>Yes, because there is no data showing that a fighter with tutorial has better retention rates
But you just used MK11 as an example of a popular game with proper tutorials. Are you saying Mortal Kombat has horrible retention rates?

>No casual goes what the fuck I got beat better go study all the frame data.
You don't need to study all frame data of a fighting game in order to learn the fundamentals of fighting games. Learning how to properly play the game _through playing the game_ isn't the same as memorizing frame data and complex combo string. You're assuming that everyone who absolutely serious and willing to spend hundreds of hours studying online wikis and social media are completely unperceptive and have zero interest or inclination to learn how to play these games. It's a false dichotomy, you're not actually thinking about how casuals act if you think they aren't willing to use any tutorial without being invested enough in the game to study tertiary sources.

>most big multiplayer games are filled with kids who have barely played anything before.
They wouldn't be there if it were not for the people who have played those games. Those kids are in the latter catagory I described in the second part of my sentence, which you conveniently cut out when quoting me for the sake of argument.

just pick whoever you wanna play for whatever reason. It'll be tough with any of them because they all have at least 60 moves and you won't know which ones are good at first.

>Everyone knows MVC2 and likes to watch it, despite it arguably being one of the hardest fighting games to execute well in. Everyone knows Third Strike and likes to watch it, despite it being a difficult game to execute in.
I wouldn't blame execution, but they were allowed to create communities that enjoy their oddities and brokenness. Imagine if MvC2 came out today

>WHY ARE ALL THE SPRITES RESUED
>THESE BACKGROUNDS LACK SOUL
>INFINITE BREAK THE GAME
>NOT PLAYING TILL GAMBIT GLITCH IS FIXED
>THE BALANCE IS TERRIBLE
>STREET FIGHTER GETS MORE VIEWS SO IS THE ONLY GAME THAT MATTERS

Are these points completely wrong? No, but the MvC2 community likes how broken it is. The right balances patches could help, but you could easily just kill the very top tier and lock down would have dominated. Plus these days a game can't grow by itself, updates must keep coming otherwise it is dead.

You're assuming that everyone who *isn't

The basic gameplay of traditional fighters isn't particularly skillful or dynamic. Compare getting a headshot in an fps or lining up a jumping hit in smash to punching someone in a fighter. You're locked into a plane, the move comes out the same with very little room for dynamic adjustment besides timing. Obviously what makes it challenging is the interplay with a human opponent, however if you can't breach that mental level what you're left with feels too constrained and simple.

Pick anyone you want. Some characters are harder than others, but the game is balanced very well. Chloe's a good beginner character, hits like a truck and has some good tools but isn't too complicated. Jin is kind of a stupid meme at this point, but if you like him, play him. He's the easiest Mishima to do well with now.

1. The time investment needed for even basic competence.

2. The stunning lack of single player content, so the game cannot stand on its own without relying heavily on the health of its online playerbase.

3. The combo heavy focus of most fighting games. The goal in most fighting games is to put your opponent into positions from which they cannot respond, and repeatedly putting your opponent into that state. This varies from game to game:

>In the MvC series if you get touched you lose a character. Against competent players you'll lose your whole team.
>In the Tekken series you can juggle people so they float helplessly in the air while half their health is juggled away.
>In the KI series you can lock people out so they just eat attacks until they're gone
Etcetera...

It's no surprise why they're a really niche genre (down there with racing games and 4x titles).

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I was actually interested in those 2 since I can't buy the dlc gonna try them and see if I can click with them. Thanks anons.

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I really tried to give T7 a fair shake but it's honestly so fucking dull compared to 2d fighters.

The neutral game in tekken is essentially taking turns doing moves and obnoxious strings which are minus but still safe, with the occasional low move, counterhit launcher, or launcher. The lack of a block button means there is no fluid 8-way movement and you do the korean backdash to try and get out of range to bait whiffs. It makes no use of the 3rd dimension besides sidestepping some moves you memorized that can be sidestepped in certain ways. In a sense it's like a 2d game with bad movement where you come out of the screen for 0.01 seconds occasionally because you anticipate they'll throw out a move that maybe doesn't have tracking. Here's the problem - every character's spacing is the exact fucking same - pointblank. It's not like soul calibur or 2d where characters are good at different ranges. You take turns mashing safe moves point blank, backdash cancel sometimes, then maybe someone whiffs a move and you do a launcher which often drops the combo after 1 hit because you're too far away.

But to even get to this extremely basic and monotonous neutral game you have to memorize the safeness/unsafeness of hundreds of moves and autistic stances. That move that looked insanely unsafe? It's -8 or something (safe), or part of a string, which means that trying to even jab it gets you CH launched, carried to the wall, and raped with setplay you have to guess 5 or something ways to get out of. There is no reason for this. The tekken world tour champion admitted he has shitty movement and footsies and only won by picking a meme character and laming people out with mashing and moves people didn't have memorized. This is not a skillful game like street fighter, kof, vf, or sc. It is a party masher for apes with an arithmetic minigame tacked-on.

When learning a character, I always start out here: drunkardshade.com/2017/05/27/tekken-7-top-15-moves-for-all-characters/

Learn those few moves, your basic combo extender, then expand your knowledge from there.

Anybody can play fighting games! They are more accessible than ever before! Just try your best!

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Basically this
If you don't know how to defend against it you just get oneshot by good players. It isn't fun for bad and good players.

>One popular fighting game
You mean the game where the last one sold 11 million? Yes I can.

>most casuals aren't going to be playing MK11.
Yes they will, the series is a casual magnet. A casual is more likely to pick up that than other fighters.

>Are you saying Mortal Kombat has horrible retention rates?
Yes, that is well documented for NRS games see the EVO table here. You can already see the fall off now in the steam numbers. It also has very low EVO entrants suggesting a lack of long term interest

>You don't need to study all frame data of a fighting game
You're struggling with sarcasm. Losing does not make them go oh I will now study the tutorial, you set up that scenario and it simply doesn't exist.

>have zero interest or inclination to learn how to play these games.
You've made an absolutely nonsense straw man. I said to get them to consider doing any of that you first have to get them invested, then they may consider studying. This is where the smash example plays, the resources in game for learning are pathetic but that is not reflected in how the game is doing. Notice how I bring up examples of what is happening with games while you theory craft. The growth of entrants and if it has a tutorial don't line up.

>Those kids are in the latter catagory
Apart from this goes against your entire need for a tutorial. They are learning from tertiary sources. And don't give me this shit that they are learning from asking in game, go try that now and you'll get called a fucking retarded faglord. The carrying aspect in game is actually the game letting them get invested first so then they go off to learn for themselves. They don't learn much of anything in the being carried period.

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Does anyone have a stream schedule for combo breaker?

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Kenshiro

poison should at least be 14 inches

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Thanks friends

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Because they're stressful and simply not that fun if you aren't playing with somebody in person. I play fighting games every day and I still get salty as fuck when playing online.

dex vs str

The Ippo game is still the best boxing game. Much deeper than any Fight Night

And yet MK11 players do not encompass the majority of people playing the entirety of fighting games, of which the casuals always outnumber dedicated players. So no, you can't really say fighting game tutorials is a solved issue because all the casuals are going to play mortal kombat from now on. Though it is true a casual is more likely to pick up MK11 than every other fighting game with a good tutorial combined.

And since we're talking about casual players, bringing up the growth of EVO entrants here is irreverent since they are representative of the most competitive players willing to travel in order to play at the highest level, not the casual players we're discussing here. Again you've created a false dichotomy between the most dedicated serious fighting game players and everyone else who will supposedly drop the game the instant they meet any resistance regardless of the tools the game provides for them.

>You've made an absolutely nonsense straw man
>Losing does not make them go oh I will now study the tutorial, you set up that scenario and it simply doesn't exist.
Don't be a hypocrite. You're arguing that people are just as likely to drop the game after losing if the game provides them a tutorial than they are if they need to resort to studying framedata off a website to learn, which is asinine.

>>Those kids are in the latter catagory
>Apart from this goes against your entire need for a tutorial.
In games where learning how to play properly isn't a requirement for success, since you can simply get carried by other more skilled players. Not fighting games. Getting carried in a game isn't the same as studying information from a tertiary source.

Though this just serves to prove the need for tutorials, since players are more likely to get invested in the game from first hand experience than expecting them to read wikis and study data for anything other than meta play, which is outside the scope of basic fundamentals.

MKX sold 11 million after years, not in one month.

>tfw prefer fighting games even though i suck more there to team shit games because you're never sure who fucked up and how much which rustles your jimmies whereas in fightan it's clear cut so you're chill

It can be, with practice.
youtu.be/eH3nbOmUGDY

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Ditto.

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Her sprite is so distracting because of how different the animations are compared to everyone else's.

>decided to match you against is 90-5 and has been playing actively for 10 years. Then you realize that guy is actually garbage.

Yep, that's fighting games for you. It's quite the skill gap. You actually have to get good. What a genre.

Having to actually get good.

This is how newbies at FPS feel about the skill gap between them and veterans like you. Nobody wants to repeatedly go 0-50 in a Quake duel when they could play Siege and blame their Castle for barricading the wrong entrances every time you lose on defense.

>UNIST
Join the Yea Forums lobbies.

There are some people that are learning the game right now that you can get better at the game with if you don't mind also getting matched up with regular players.

However, if you do fail, you'll be able to ask for advice on why you failed and will definitely get the responses you're looking for.

At the very least, you'll probably have more fun fighting against people you've come across and gauging your experience versus fighting in ranked matchmaking only and not really being able to tell how your progression is going.

t. Guy who made UNIST his first fighting game to get decent at and in about 6-8 months managed to get good enough to score at least a few wins a night in those lobbies against the regulars.

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How do I get gllty to fuck me?

How does he pee with the boxing gloves on? Also, it's rude to stare at a woman while she uses the urinal. I guess this is why men and women usually use separate bathrooms.

at least in those team games you can be carried and win through people better than you, most people don't just only lose this way

>The answer is you don't actually need skill in single player games
>I don't know what the word "skill" means

I enjoy more watching UMVC3 and Infinite in some extent

>The spray of sweat acting like a fucking hitspark
God that was satisfying. Covered my mouth and went "OOOOH!"/10

What can i see there? Green dude used vskill / some sort of transform in order to counter the other dudes 5hits special?

Is the green dude ryu in disguise?

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Ok let me correct it. You don't need a lot of skill for most single player fighting games, but people like to pretend you do to feel good about themselves for being skillful while not actually being that skillful.

so your saying that if fighters had a co-op arcade mode or a real tag mode people would play them?

Looks like he activated a parry special or super of sorts.

Flaccid

>>there's no input as to why you got your ass handed to you and how to improve

I meant something like turns, for example, people press buttons after a knock-down because they don't know that's when you're at disadvantage the most. There's no concept of "my move takes some frames to start, I can't do anything until I stand up and my opponent may start a move while I'm on the ground" it's not hard to put examples on tutorials to make people understand blocking should be option number 1 after a knock-down, generally speaking. Then introduce throwing a guarding opponent and so on

>>people treat any weird movement or even doing a combo as a sign of disrespect

Tea bagging (can be confused by buffering quarter circle motions) or simply not moving your opponent (may look like sand bagging) may be considered disrespectful. In dbfz, Ginyu can combo into Body Change. People consider comboing into that disrespectful. Also in some anime games, you can combo into a move that kills the opponent and produces a long animation (BlazBlue and Guilty Gear), people consider that disrespectful (instead of doing a normal combo that would kill the opponent as well)

Humans are social creatures. Fighting games are not very social unless you go to locals and people dont want to take time to drive and talk face to face vs using discord chat.

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Do you want me to start uploading pics of drama posts of discord and Facebook groups?

incompetent japanese developers
no crossplay

The people who whine about fightan and say that they're too difficult for normal people or try to discount them by saying they're too simple for their galaxy brain or that the net play is always terrible or say "I would destroy anybody I go up against because people will just hit random buttons really hard, nevermind the fact that I've never played one" are scrublords that even I could beat.

Yea Forums praises games that can require skill to play well, putting them on a pedestal and saying "Look at how much skill is involved in this game! Isn't it amazing? By the way, did you know that I play this game too? Aren't I amazing?
Yet Yea Forums does not play that game like the people they show off. This is because those games, while they can be played in such a way as to require a seriously impressive amount of skill, can also be played in such a way as to require absolutely none, and it is in precisely these ways that Yea Forums plays their games.
Now in comes a game that actually requires lots of skill, that challenges its players to 'git gud', and the only way to be good at this game is to practice for real. The universal answer to any dilemma on Yea Forums is to git gud though, so what's the problem?
Yea Forums chose to git gud at cheesing, not to actually git gud. And so what must be done in order to save face?
>Fighting games are trash, they require no skill, you're just wailing on buttons and hoping that something happens that you want.

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yeah and I bet you love it huh?

Play Arcana Heart bros

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I choose my main depending exclusively on their aesthetics. No matter how execution-heavy they are.

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That said Venom is also more of an intellectually intensive character rather than being hard to control properly like Zato.

Arcana Heart and Guilty Gear are the S tier of fighting games

Cause normalfags don't understand that they have to put effort into something

I've found that with fighting games when you're new you lose like 95% of games, if not all of them. Unlike other games that typically have a cheap, easy kill strategy somewhere in them that may work once or twice on someone.

Fighting games have this too, but usually you need SOME skill to abuse something OP and you basically advertise you're going to do it by picking a particular character.

>Yea Forums giving advice for dark souls: git gud
>Yea Forums on fighting games: too hard ;c

WHICH IS IT FAGGETS

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>Multiplayer vs Singleplayer
Geee

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Tekken 7 is the best fighting game on current market. Prove me wrong

The only thing I don't like about certain fighting games is the crazy long combos. To me grinding that is the least fun thing ever, but in some games you are required to or else you can't get any damage in. More neutral based games are fun though but they are more rare nowadays.

Stay snug as a bug in a rug Smug

This, it's why I'm looking forward to samsho and gbf versus.

Most fighting games retained all the shit on the left while fps like quake live made all those techniques 1 button and added cooldowns lmao. Quake 4 is also dead. sadly more niche than a discord fighter

Already did

>joining anything """""Yea Forums""""" related outside of Yea Forums
kys

Most popular multiplayer games don't seem very social either. Nothing really all that social about a battle royale or a moba or fps where the only interaction between strangers is trash talk and teams rarely socialize outside of premades.

>Being a dumb faggot
Enjoy playing alone I guess

Git gud

you have the tism, don't you user?

>Tekken 7 is the best fighting game on current market. Prove me wrong

fucking LMAO tekken is a joke with the worst movement of all time and autistic memorization of thousands of moves and gimmicks rather than actual neutral, t7 is even worse than the shitty games before it because it has

>even slower walking and general movement
>new characters that mash hopkicks and gorilla moves
>shitty comeback mechanic

Nice post

Gonna be a yikes from me

>took me over 3000 matches to get to Super Saiyan Blue in FighterZ
>lost more than half of my total matches
>keep playing and improving
Shit takes time and dedication.

wew lad

>YIKES
>WEW LAD
>YOWZA

nice rebuttals tekkucks lmfao

keep memorizing how to punish those 300 strings for every character and wavedashing until you're an impotent senile old man while everyone else is playing footsies and the neutral game

Considering it's 2019 and even most of the best fighting games have garbage netcode....

eastern fighting games: good gameplay
western fighting games: good netcode
you only get to pick one unfortunately

Wew lad

The difference is that you can blame your teamates in team games so you never have to come to the realization that you are the retard. It allows every and any moron to think they are good due to the match making and establish that disconnect when they lose. A million times over I see a random die and then there is a pause as I presume they look on the map to blame another random for why they were caught out or overextended or got outplayed.

I recently dropped myself to bronze from super gold, because i wanted to learn how to play solid fundamental street fighter rather than just relying on urien aegis memes.
I picked up sagat, and got slammed by people who i know i could have beaten if i played urien. Playing sagat made me feel like a complete retard for the longest time. However, after so long it finally clicked. Even guile players were getting impatient and trying to jump in on me because they couldnt beat me in a fireball war. It felt so good to beat people cleanly and honestly.
KING OF THAILAND ENFORCING A NO FLY ZONE

>Even guile players were getting impatient and trying to jump in on me because they couldnt beat me in a fireball war
that's because guile can't beat sagat in a fireball war

Too much time to fully pick up and master.
I like RTS games because they have a high skill ceiling, but you can understand the basics almost instantly. As it boils down too
>Get resources
>Build army
>Build defenses
>wait until you can pressure the enemy.
With fighting games, theres so much shit you need to learn, and if you don't know it you'll lose.
It's like practicing skate boarding, and everytime you THINK you mastered a trick, a dude comes up and tells you, that you just mastered the wrong trick and that you need to do it all over again. It's discouraging and awful.

>Try my best to have a learning mentality where it's okay to lose
>Play against most of my opponents pretty well. Win most games against people at or below my skill level
>Fight someone above my skill level
>Completely destroys me, wins neutral almost instantly, and almost all my reversals get baited as he mixes up left/right with command grabs as well
>Win literally just one game in the middle of 30-something losses, never win a set
>Stop playing him so I can practice against other people
>Not even mad
>Play against other people and beat them
>But I don't beat them the same way he beat me
>I can't beat them like he beat me
>Realize I am actually mad and stop enjoying most of my matches

Losing isn't bad.
But how you lose can feel pretty bad.

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asking $60 for a game with dlc characters/season passes that's just back and forth punching, kicking and blocking is pretty silly - fighting games should be like $15-$20 max at launch - also there needs to be more fighting games with mini-games and adventure modes added on - tobal no 1 was kinda cool with this, think the new mk games has something like it but again, they needa flesh that shit out if they want a full price at launch

Really? I thought it felt even.
Regardless, it felt good to bully guile with fireballs just because for the longest time he got away with being the only character in SFV with a good fireball.

Eddy Gordo

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People talk all the time. They just stick to discords or ventrillo

Also its annoying when majority of online players are laggy wifi warriors. Imagine doing everything right but lose cause the other guy is a red bar who zone spams snd plug pulls when you are about to win.

For every good fight you get 10 laggy plug pullers.

So how can you improve when thats your only way to improve outside of locals?

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In other words they only talk in premades and scrimms. How is fighting game players using discord any less social?

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This
Plus people hate easy victories

Fighting games require a huge time investment just to learn a character's moves, let alone play them competently. I'm not willing to dedicate that much time, so I just don't play.

this. ladder anxiety in 1v1 skill based games is real shit

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They get old, fast.

Play a match and if it's clear that you're about to win just throw the match intentionally. You need to mentally separate meaningless rank labels from your actual skill level.
Measure progress by how many games you have to throw to keep the loss streak going, how often you duck non-jailing high high strings, how on point your punishment game is. Things like that.

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>predicts your next moves
>combos his level 2 counter into his level 3 into his otg grab
literally nothing better

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The trick is to put people like that in a fucking trench. DotA has somewhat of the right idea except new players have to muscle through the trench when it should be a separate dimension of shitters and plugpullers. Imagine if you will for every one time you disconnect you have to play 15-20 games against similar people, and then if you do it again during those 15-20 matches you have to do it for double that so you'd have to do 15-20+30-40 matches, and the amount doubles, then dsp and LTG get to stay in the trenches while people who aren't faggots and with decent internet get to enjoy the game

twitter.com/flying_wonkey/status/1131822524252057600
hope you can parry the patch bro

ironically this is why i can play fighting games. I get anxiety about letting my team down in team games, but 1v1 i will happily play all day and take my losses as they come.

>inputs
every fighting game except fucking street fighter has auto combos and a version to play without inputs, alongside the inputs really not being hard at all, and the games having plenty of tools and tutorials to teach you those motions.
>matchmaking is usually shit
it's why people just don't. No game ever has done matchmaking in a serviceable fashion, not just a fighting game issue. Just go on a forum and find players your level.
>netcode is shit
The only game with tragically ass netcode is honestly Smash Bros and even then you shouldn't be playing it because it's shit.

>we need f2p hat fighter for the normie audience
normies wont play it because it's 1v1 skill based game. They can't handle being told "they were better. try being better next time."

most people aren't autistic enough to learn long complex button combinations

you're certainly autistic enough to keep using this excuse

Yea Forums sucks dick. Reminder they lost to dsp here AND cosmo after talking mad shit for eons

Fighting games don't do enough to encourage learning of the mechanics. They think a practice mode is enough. When they should include a full blow single player mode, that forces the player to execute complex mechanics to progress. With cutscenes and unlockables as rewards.

Once people feel more confident through single player, then they'll want to try their skills in versus.

Aside from Tekken I think every fighting game released these days has some sort of dedicated tutorial mode. Combo trials, while they may not always list the most practical combos, helps players get to grips with execution too I guess (usually at the very least they illustrate whatever cancel mechanics are present in the game's system too)

FPBP

The problem isn't the lack of tutorials as much as people not wanting to play the tutorials.

street fighter is the only franchise with potential to be really big
the current iteration is unpopular among many big community figures, this is highly discouraging to new players attempting to brave the learning curve

At GDC talk about Fighting games someone from Mortal Combat devteam sad that they have statistics about tutorials...and about 10% uses them. Any stream that i looked into about MK showed me players ignoring tutorials.

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>Play against other people and beat them
>But I don't beat them the same way he beat me
That just means you're not playing anyone with a big enough skill gap between the two of you. I guarantee you if you played someone new to the game you could also style on them, but it means nothing. There's always someone better. If you get salty that there's people out there that can dominate you then fighting games probably aren't for you.

Unfortunately, I am very bad.

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What he's saying is that these tutorials need to be integrated into a satisfying single player mode to encourage people to actually do them, not have them segregated into a boring side mode nobody outside of enthusiasts want to touch.

Think of a regular single player game. They teach the player through gameplay. Bosses get subsequently harder, enemies get more varied and difficult, each building player skill as they progress. For example maybe they teach you mechanics like trick jumps first in a low risk environment, like over a pit that doesn't kill you. Then they up the ante by putting them over a death pit. Then they include enemies along with the trick jumps. Then maybe the last test is to fight a boss using these trick jumps, but by the time you get there the game has trained you to do them effortlessly. A fighting game to a lot of people is being thrown into the last boss with endgame pattern difficulties and trick jumps they never learned, so it's frustrating.

If they crafted a single player mode that taught you advanced mechanics as you played then they'd be way more ready to tackle versus, but unfortunately no developer of fighting games seem to want to focus on single player at all, aside from NRS, and their single player modes are less about teaching the player and more about them jerking themselves off over their epic storylines.

catering to normalfags more than they already do would be a mistake

Why is it so amusing to watch fags who know nothing about fighting game tell you why they’re bad?

Is it the unabashed, proud ignorance?

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It's the fact that they're dumber than nigger, because at least niggers are good at fightans

How would having a mode that teaches normalfags how to play be bad?

That's Yea Forums's raison d'etre

cause normalfags don't do tutorials so it'd be a waste of resources

>he doesn't trash talk people over the mic
Also stay snug as a bug in a rug Smug

Careful, she counts as a violation of Global Rule 15, even if she’s not on barneyfag’s radar

Did you miss the part of tutorials being revamped into a single player mode that's fun to play?

I mean does that really tell you anything? people ignore tutorials in every game, the problem is that in a shooter you don't really need a tutorial to tell you how to point and shoot. Compare that to a very important aspect of fighting games, invincible reversals, which is something that would be difficult for a new player to understand without being told about it. if people don't play the tutorials that do explain that kinda shit what can you do? that's on them if they start bitching that they can't win and quit the game at that point.

GURIMU REEEPA

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Tekken - game with no tutorials have healthy playerbase for FG, MK11 - game with tutorials and leading in sales everywhere will die after one EVO, like always with NeatherRealm. Care to explain?

>doesn't read the post he's replying to
why do I still come here

youtube.com/watch?v=_KwuQ29UwZc&t
Tekken is fun for buttonmashers so it doesn't need a tutorial

...combo trials are not fucking tutorials

The only way to build confidence is to beat real opponents

Stop being afraid of losing and set out on the path of self improvement

The moment DBZF skipped EVO Japan playerbase and interest tanked. SF5 was hated and bullied to no end at the start, yet still retain players, because Capcom is the Leader in FGC E-Sports. So pro scene matters. EVO 37 - popularized FG more than all tutorials of all figting games.

Eventually you just have to accept that fighting games are hard and 90% of people are casuals who won't get good no matter how hard you hold their hand and try to drag them into actually improving.
Your ideas are nice, but what would actually happen is that you spend a ton of resources developing all these unique enemies to teach each individual aspect of fighting games, and the people that want the singleplayer will just mash through it anyway and the people that want to actually get good will run through it once at most and then go to training mode/online like in every other fighting game.

he saw BEANS (lots of BEANS)

EVO entrants have little relevancy to the value of game tutorials. You might as well say that UNIST is more popular than DBFZ because it has a better tutorial mode.

I haven't played UNIST in a while, but I tried playing it again recently, do people play in ranked? I assumed they would play in lobbies seeing as that's how it used to be, but there were no lobbies so I assume either nobody's playing or people have migrated to ranked. I know about the Yea Forums lobbies and I'm not playing in them, I just want to know where people in general play UNIST, or if they even do anymore.

>are people playing this japanese 2d literal who anime fighter?
do you really want an answer, user

are Yea Forums lobbies filled with people who are actually good at the game or brainlets?

I would expect more people to be playing it now than since last time I checked seeing as I thought it gained some new fans after it got into EVO. And I'd rather ask because people always accuse games that aren't dead of being dead just because they don't have a huge playerbase, people always say GG is dead but I play it every day, and so I'd like to not just assume UNIST is dead.

i hope you're being ironic in asking this question

There's a couple high level players that show up but the average is pretty average

There's a very dedicated circlejerk that makes constant UNIST threads. Idk why they havent been moved to /vg/, but dont let then fool you. Its barely above melty blood in terms of player count.

EVO entrans have all revelancy for player retention. DBZF was HYPE. It skiped EVO Japan and look, playerbase tanked even more. UNIST was literally who anime game, and it's more popular than legacy game Guilty Gear now. Pro scene have weight in game life. NOBODY WANTS TO LEARN THE GAME, THAT IS NOT TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

I know there is, but the game has still gotten more popular even outside of Yea Forums and it's more talked about than Guilty Gear yet there's enough people playing that that I can find games everyday. Even assuming a good chunk of those people are just bandwagoning on to UNIST because it "killed" Melee, you would think there would be at least 50-100 people online a day.

t. brainlet

Money. Like DBZF right???

...read the fucking post

The homing/movement mechanics in this game look interesting tbqh

Your average casual isn't basing anything on a scene. EVO entrants don't have any relevancy for player retention except for players who are willing to travel and compete for money.

>DBFZ WAS HYPE

fuck yea bro i loved me some Cell/Kid buu/Goku black mirror matches doing the same optimal combos

It's also true that EVO moment 37 did more to popularize fighting games than the single player story modes of all fighting games.

this but unironically

Strange, I always thought Tekken was like Virtua Fighter for poor and simple. How FGC have fallen....

combo trials are not fucking tutorials. you dumb fuck...

you should try a more believable game if you're trying to imitate an old hipster. no one ever gave a shit about VF
the most commonly used game for posts like that on Yea Forums would be 3s

and you replied to a post making a distinction between tutorials and combo trials

Hardly anyone here plays VF, it's mostly just Yea Forums being contrarian. Most people who do like VF don't like VF5 either, which is the one Yea Forums claims to like incidentally.

They would be more popular if the publishers would stop turning every new release into a mobile game.

Tekken 7:
>very little content to this day, and despicable DLC for legacy characters, as well as cut content for customization items
SFV:
> It's a F2P with a premium slapped on, fuck off Capcom
Guilty Gear/BlazBlue:
>Please be excited for voice over DLC and the next upda--...er, I mean next game that releases three months after this one
MK 11:
>I make Capcom look like Mother Theresa
Dead or Alive 6:
>I make Warner Bros look like the second coming of Christ
Soul Calibur 6:
>Tekken 7 all over again, with even less content and detestable DLC nonsense

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My need to main the fastest guy hasn't made things easy.

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This would be a great start to a porno haha could you imagine? I love the idea of a trap getting caught in public lol. Would anyone have more pics like this, because it's really funny haha?

Sorry? HYPE is not positive characteristic for me, so I naively thouth for anybody else too.

Traditionally Guile was never a top tier chucker because of the charge tax, booms were meant to be more of a defensive option against non zoners than a way to compete with ryu and sagat.

Every player eventually will have to do their time getting crushed, but it's a far more efficient learning experience when they have a general idea of why they're losing vs. pure trial and error.

thats just tf2 vs street fighter 5

>the next upda--...er, I mean next game that releases three months after this one
But it has been a year since CTB with no new version, there was four years between Central Fiction and Central Fiction Special Edition and it has been three years since Revelator and Rev 2 was sold as a DLC update for those that already had the original game.

what do i think of kolin?

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>use gun on man
>move mouse, press button
>sophisticated
Nah.

Jesus christ, he could have easily snapped that man's neck with that hit.

reminder only shitters dislike these genres

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honest

>chipp
Why not Jamm or Millia? Better movements and attack options and MUCH better damage.

You don't even have to be great at these to enjoy them, I don't know where the argument that you need to be some golden god to enjoy these come from

Chipp is by far the most mobile character in the game, outdamages Millia, has better setplay than Jam and doesn't have Jam's lack of range or Millia's reliance on pin.
Even after his nerf he's solidly top tier, maybe top 5 or close to it.

the cute blonde ruski girl

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>player is bad
>player faces other players that are not bad
>player doesn't have fun
As for shmups they're likely too "simple" on the surface for normies to enjoy because they credit feed and whine that the games are no fun.

pretty sure that's the holy trinity of dead game genres my dude

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you'd need to include arena shooters

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>have to spend hundreds of hours to learn
>games rotate in and out
>small as shit community
>sense of enjoyment and skill coming forth takes way too long compared to every other genre
>comparable time spent could be spent with friends because lets be real most people play fucking fightera
Gee I wonder why no one feels like it