*ruins your game*

I admit I genuinely enjoyed Morrowind more since it encouraged exploration more than just "follow marker". Often times I went to a cave or something thinking it was the quest area for my main objective and instead it was something else but got me good loot or whatever

required reading for all game designers and internet forum posters:
gamasutra.com/blogs/FelipePepe/20160412/270100/The_history_of_the_Quest_Compass__its_dreadful_convenience.php

Hardmode: propose a better alternative.

Making a good product actually does correlate to more sales post release.

Souls series hasn't and it's now as mainstream as call of duty

I straight up don't believe that even the worst of zoomers do that with rpgs.

>boring ass side quest
Spotted the pleb.

NPCs explain where to go in dialogue.
maps that you have to draw your own lines on

This is one of the reasons as to why I really wish some indies would make an Elder Scrolls clone. I'd be so refreshing to get a game in this genre with good quests, no handholding, and actually decent combat and mechanics.

There's literally nothing wrong with quest markers. Who the fuck want's to drop days of their life looking for clues they might never find? You'd just google it and go from there, and at that point you'd be no better than using a quest marker.

>Souls series hasn't
>bonfires everywhere in 2 and 3
>warping from the very beginning
lel

Hah. If indies want money, they’ll add in the quest marker

>game is still as challenging as it's ever been
lel

That would be fine with an actual map that isn't shit. Even WITH the markers half the time I can't figure out how to actually get there without running into mountains and shit.

Except not really

>brainlet can't read
who would have guessed

Or they can dedicate themselves to a hardcore audience.

*ruins all mystery and discovery in video games forever*

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>i don't need help finding it!
>wait, i need help finding it!

You'd be surprised how many niche or small games have very little documentation online. Not even indies, just games in general.

Also just don't look it up lmao.

only if you have no willpower. I discovered every recipe in minecraft except the 3 basic tools by myself, just by thinking about it and trying things

Retard

I would actually like to see a game where the map is fully customizable like that. Like you can draw on it, add markers/stamps, add text, notes, etc. Assuming that the game doesn't have quest markers, of course. Some games have this, but it's always limited as fuck.

nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/9762

Dry your tears.

...

retards that disagree are low iq zoomers tweaking on adhd meds

Bullshit quit lying

They would rightfully hate the game as it goes back to the shitty era of Morrowind where most of the NPC's descriptions of where to go and what to do were very inaccurate and vague, requiring players to blindly search about instead of actually playing the game.

It's different if the game is designed that way. In Morrowind, NPCs actually told you how to get to locations. Saying things like "Follow the river until X crossroads, then go west" and stuff. You were given directions but it wasn't the same as just having a map marker that makes you zone out and not pay attention to the world. It's a really fun system once you actually sit down and play it.

Not lying, most of them are shaped like the things in real life. Some took a lot of trial and error.

>i don't need to be told where it is
>wait, i need to be told where it is

haha yeah like, who fucking cares about the story and lore and the stuff that actually makes the quest come alive. Just let me fast travel to X, kill Y come back to Z so i can move onto the next one

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Fpbp

Ideally a game would never be annoying enough that you would have to constantly look up what to do for a quest. Most quests wouldn't really have this problem though. If it's taking you days of your life to look for clues, then you might be retarded.

dont put stuff on compass except location icons
use general area hinting, fuzzy shapes around areas near the area the npc asks you to go to on map
current npc hint on map at npcs location

Here's your you. Now fuck off with your shitty bait.

>wanting to Play games with old stupid as shit Point nd click adventure design logic

>i'm not getting baited into replying
>here's more replies

fail reply

actually look for the objectives yourself based off clues, landmarks, etc in other words figure it out yourself.

Jesus christ I remember in Skyrim having my hand held through the very first dungeon. The NPC with you walks you through the first puzzle verbally "huh that statue you picked up matches the symbol on over here.."

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morrowind is shit

What's your opinion on quest markers then? Do you actually like the game telling you exactly where to go all the time?

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Do people really do this ? I really only google stuff if I'm absolutely stuck and cant get passed a part which happens rarely now that I've well over the age of 15. What's the point of playing a game if you expect the game to tell you everything you have to do, you're just following one direction after another at that point. Huh, I guess retards really do need piss ez games to have fun.

Unironically AC Odissey resolves that problem pretty well with quests markers turned off

How did you guess that a comparator needs Nether Quartz? How did you figure out a dispenser needs a bow?

>Just go north until you fine a funny rock and them south-east until you find two rivera crossing each other then follow the right river upstream and talk to all npc until you hear the right dialogue

Those weren't in the game when I played.

Ok, that I can believe.

I just realized that I've literally never used this skill.
I'd imagine it's just the same as holding down the stick in Dead Space or waiting a few seconds in Fable 2.

I don't have any opinion one way or another. They're almost always optional(Skyrim makes them doubly optional because you can turn them off completely and not track the quest you want to be on) and even when they aren't, they're just that: markers. You're still completely able to go anywhere you want at basically any time in any direction at any pace.

I generally play the game with them turned off (ie. never have an active quest) but there are a few quests that give you no clues as to location. There's one that's just west of Windhelm thta you'd never find without the ping. Kinda sucks. Would like to see the writers put more effort in (or be given more time to do their thing or whatever).

Yeah sometimes I just didn't do a quest because it gave me absolutely no direction of where to go, or I would literally spend 20+ minutes just looking around in the same area. But there can be a balance between completely directionless and leading you on a leash because I still preferred Morrowind's system over the later games. You just need to actually have most things marked on a map from the quest giver, or a way to get directions.

>no alternative way of finding destinations or objectives
You mean your EYES

To be fair some of those caves are hard to find even when you know where they are.

based Ubisoft got rid of them in ass creed odyssey

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You, seriously, do not understand what you are talking about. I'm not sure what you're deal is, but whatever.

Play quality games instead of garbage. Garbage game can't do directions in a'y way. Skyrim is a bad game.
>lol just include it in the quest text
>vidya devs never add quality writing
>lol just find clues
>devs couldn't make a riddle to save their lives

Half measure. Actually fixing it would require redesigning large amounts of the game so that you can follow paths and things besides blindly honing in on markers.

>i'm mad so you're wrong

>Half measure
It's pretty much Morrowind system bro.

>devs couldn't make a riddle to save their lives
I beg to differ

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It's actually kind of vague and inconsistent, as it follows the node pathing that NPCs take. In general, it will stick to roads until it gets close to any off-road location, at which point it kinds of weaves around. Quite often the trail it takes will suddenly shoot off into nowhere because of some wonky nodes. When it comes to pinpointing exact locations, it usually stops short so once you get to a location, you do a little bit of searching in the immediate area.

Skyrim's Clairvoyance spell and Daggerfall's "pestering" is the ideal. The former giving you a path that mostly follows the roads and isn't super specific, and the latter making NPCs go from giving you vague directions, more specific directions, and eventually marking an X on your map the more you ask for the location of something, both landmarks and quests.

Appeal to the furry crowd and you’ve got an audience forever

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How good is it for leveling its associated skill? Can you just get a decent magicka regen tiara, hold the button down, and level up?

The problem is most people are fucking retarded, so if you make an actual puzzle outside a puzzle game, they are either going to look the solution online, or quit, rather then doing the actual puzzle and feeling like an adventurer. Wish there was a game like Dark Souls but a little less on the action side and more on the exploration - puzzle side.

I give up, it's too hard. Where can I buy Todd's Skyrim™ official guide

That's my plan G.

Awesome now i just keep a wiki tab on my computer open at the same time. Yea Forums really has the best ideas

Clairvoyance barely gives any XP whatsoever. It takes four seconds minimum of holding it for a single point of Illusion XP.
If you wanted to level up Illusion, just cast Courage and Calm on random people.

I HATE NORMIES
I HATE WOMEN
I HATE BOOMERS
I HATE ZOOMERS
I HATE TRANNIES AND THOSE FAGS

GAMER GATE 2 WHEN?

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it's called role playing dipshit, you know, like in the name of the genre rpg?

bro i have the best idea
so the blue haired feminists hate gamergate right?
like gamergate is the ultimate evil to them
like imagine 9/11 but for leghairs, that's gamergate
everything that they don't like is gamergate
everything's fault is gamergate, you following
i have this great idea
they hate gamergate so much, it's obvious really
this is a great idea trust me
you have to exploit how much they hate gamergate
they're going to get so triggered when this idea comes to fruition
have you figured it out yet?
it's obvious, i'd be surprised if you haven't it's pretty obvious
get trump to tweet about gamergate to trigger the libs, own the libs

Why do you guys never seem to realize that you are the problem?

Looks like I accurately portrayed people like you who say that

Actually the continued cultural destruction of a particular hobby will always lead to it's ruination as the shift in appeal to the large majority of masses will eventually leads to it's collapse, as all empires through history fall, so too will products and service shift in accordance with population to the cesspit of low iq rhetoric and thought.

No longer is gaming influenced by the best and brightest that the world has to offer, but rather wallows in the grave that all consumerists products now lie in.

For what is a greater gain for the corporation than profit?

The problem of majority has plagued all of humanity through it's history, from even the earliest caveman days.

For woe are those who's warnings go unheard through century and eon of time

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as long as they improved the map, diary and npc interaction the'd be happy

Fuck that puzzle. I spent 20 minutes on it and then I just made my mom drive me back to GameStop to get a refund.

Not allways quest marker is bad. Especially when Skyrim is literally a fucked up map with mountains and shit.
Actually perfection will be when some quest givers will just give you description how to get there, other NPC can just put a mark on your map.

>elder scroll lore
>lel everything is actually a dream

thats gonna be a yikes from me dawg

At least 10% of the time, Skyrim had the associated remark "Here, let me show you on your map." However, the random system for locations really ruined a lot of stuff. I remember finding a dead adventurer in front of cave with a note that said, "I'm so close to the treasure burried in X cave. By this time tomorrow, I'll be rich!" and so I got a quest and entered the cave, only to realize 20 minutes later that "X Cave" was on the other side of the map and "radiantly chosen" instead of based on the fucking logic of where he died.

If they were removed, I'd hope for something like Daggerfall's system. "I want you to do X at Y location." If all the location markers are already given (Daggerfall), I can search for the name in the map screen. If I'm supposed to explore them, then let the quest show me the location marker so I know where Y location is. The rest should just be basic hunting or the Clairvoyance spell.

It's pretty awful. Since you can track multiple quests at once, it only points to the one at the top of your tracked quests in the quest log.

Here's the trick though. If a quest is bugged or naturally doesn't include a marker (despite the claims, there's a lot like that), the spell leads you to the first quest that does have one, not the location for the top quest. This became a problem for me when doing Morthal's vampire quest, where you are supposed to find the hiding place of the little ghost girl during the night. I waited until night, then since there was no marker on my map, I tried the spell to find her. I ended up running away from Morthal for almost 10 minutes, increasingly confused by how far this little girl was, until I realized it was leading me to the College of Winterhold for the next tracked quest.

That sounds like a ghost girl just dabbed on you.

>No longer is gaming influenced by the best and brightest that the world has to offer

Gaming hasn't been "influenced by the best and brightest" since the 70s when it was only CSfags in universities. Get off your retarded high horse and open your eyes.

>go to jarl
>"ahhh thane there is a bandit camp over here i want you to destroy"
>"w-where would i find it?"
>jarls stares blankly into the distance
skyrim doesnt work like that

>4E 202 Hide 'N Seek Champion

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In this example, the jarl showing you on a map makes the most sense. He's the jarl, so he'll know his way around a map, and he'll probably have various threats and places of interest marked on his own personal map the same way.

If we try to be realistic, comments like "It's hidden in a valley on the western end of Pinefloor Mountain. Go north up the Whiterun Road until you see the bear-shaped rock and turn right, then proceed three hundred paces until the fallen fir tree." wouldn't make sense because that's far more specific than he'd know without having often traveled there himself.

You still have to travel to the location if you havent been there before.

retard

even with the markers I got lost the first time I had to go see High Hrothgar.

This should be gospel

If the compass where to be removed, I would like to have a cartographer guild where you can buy maps, or even sell your own maps if you explore truly dangerous places that no one has been before.
I had fun playing with no quest marker in fallout, wandering inside the fog in far harbor with no idea of my location was fun, some places have been deserted for 200 years, with no one willing to risk the danger, so you were the first explorer getting to those places in more than a century, you could not really buy a map or pay a guide because well, no one has been to those places before you.
But that would not work for elder scroll, in a world like that you would either buy a map or pay a guide to take you and show around the area, plenty of people have been around before you, the imperials and stormcloacs have almost the entire place marked on their maps, if the npc cannot show you the fucking place on the map, his quest is just not worth doing.
Witcher could get away with it because in some of those villages, the peasants have never walked that far from the village, they literally have no idea of what is behind the next hill, but in skyrim, even the small villages have travellers or soldiers who know the area, jarls have already put to the map every single important location, if someone cannot properly give you directions on the map in skyrim, forcing you to wander around like a bitch, it can only be because they are fucking with you.

whats worse, objective markers or nearby undiscoveredlocations being shown on the compass?

Most games don't want you to do the work to feel badass. It'd be a chore to draw your own maps, sharp your own sword, brew your own potions that you discord / read and you yourself make the note for the recipe. But that's how you would do if you were an Adventurer in a fantasy land. There'd be no quest mark, no infinite recipe list, nothing. You either write shit down or you would forget it.

Someone said in some other thread that they want a indie spin on the Skyrim formula, and I agree with that need. There's a real market for a 'Hard' adventure game. Something akin to Dark Souls, vague and hard, but with open with many quests and okay to good writting.

You know. you'd think that with so many free / cheap assets on the so many different engines someone would try that sometime, but so far we got nothing; a real shame.

The main thing that completely ruins Bethesda games is, of course, level scaling

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Objective markers.
If you didn't have the latter, you end up either completely missing things forever until you hear about it years later on the internet, or you comb every square inch like your a private on the Space Balls Command Ship.

it's like fast travel, there's so many interesting ways to do it but the devs just opt for lazy instant travel. Morrowind got it right with the silt striders, mage guild teleportation and mark/recall spells.

>set of mods that randomizes and hardsets the levels of all leveled areas
>get level 50 bleak falls barrow

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>Use F76's over-prevalent "Find what you're looking for somewhere in this area" Markers.
>Make markers not show up on the compass at, and have them pop up on screen only when you're within 5 feet of the object.
>Describe locations in journal entries to allow you to find the location without markers, but still have markers that you can disable in a menu.

Best option would be to combine all those, but I'm fine with any of them.

Outward

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Skyrim's were a little aggressive, but quest markers are fine.

I played dishonored 1-2 with minimal HUD (health/mana were the only kept) and the game was more immersive for it. But not everybody has time or interest in the puzzle aspects of these games. Higher difficulties should disable HUD, but casual players should have a route to beat the game and tactical quest marker placement is a good method.

the problem is devs don't design or test the game with those options disabled, so the game is unplayable (literally zero quest text or clues for example). Unlike morrowind or AC1, which were designed for it and have ways for you to figure out where to go

"It's hidden in a valley on the western end of Pinefloor Mountain" would really be enough and then on the map Pinefloor Mountain shows up but is greyed out if you haven't been there. He would at least know this much