Sonic Heroes is the best 3D Sonic game

This. If it had been like SA2 where you play through similar levels, but not exactly the same, I probably would remember it better.

I'M FALLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!!!!!!

how can this be a real opinion? sonic heoroes is so fucking boring, even 06 is better

Not the best but not as bad as people say. Its really fun and good for nostalgia cookies.

it's a bad concept tho. if I want to fly, I will play as tails. if I want to glide, I will play as knuckles. If I want to gofast, I will play as sonic. I do not want to be stopped while I am goingfast to do some tedious flying or punching boxes

The levels were totally different with each playthrough.
>Hours to get through shadow and chaotix
get fucking good. This game was absolute kino

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It's better than SA2 desu. No level in SA2 has a section like in Frog Forest where you have to platform on the upper vines the rain frogs make otherwise you fall to the slower lower path. That is exactly the level mentality Classic Sonic had and Heroes pulled it off while SA2 didn't.

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SHAA

Sonic Unleashed without werewolf mode is perfect 3D Sonic game

It has a handful of great levels and fantastic music, but I think the cons of this game far outweigh the pros.

Combining all their abilities into one level could've made some interesting design choices and really tested your abilities and problem-solving skills. Like you said, it just ended up being tedious instead of creative.

Boom was pretty decent.

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its a shame with its major flaws because aesthetically its the best 3d sonic game captures the older style of the original trilogy better then any of the other 3d games.
no stupid over-complicated plot is a bonus too

>The levels were totally different with each playthrough.
They were all the same with a few minor differences in length, barriers, or the strength of enemies.

Fuck off, I fucking hated being stripped away from Sonic to play as someone I didn't want to. Heroes tried to combine the three of them into one high speed adventure. It didn't work out as well as they hoped, but I still prefer replaying Heroes over the other games because it's just one gameplay style that just happens to have switching. And if you know what you're doing, you can go fast regardless of the team switching.

Knuckles will never be this much of a chad as long he's a manlet

>has even less fucking flow between actions and progressing through the level then the boost games, let alone SA1 and SA2

no

Except the far more important thing to sonic that makes both the classic games and SA1/2 feel good is the sense of flow and momentum from chaining together successful actions at the right time in a seamless series of movements, if anything SA1 and SA2 do this better then the classics due to a lower emphasis on mometum halting platforming and stage gimmicks, which, guess what, Heros does worse then ever; without also even having the POTENTIAL for flow outside of that due to how the game's physics works, enemies having health bars, etc.

Heroes has it too, people are just to brainlet to figure it out. See

The only thing totally different is that Team Rose has to go through Sea Gate. Otherwise they go through the exact same level and fight 5/7 of the exact same bosses.

It's the only game in the series where Metal Sonic is his own character.

Are you joking? The aesthetics are fucking awful, with everyone looking like a cheap plastic toy. The story tries to be intricate by weabing multiple viewpoints together, which only makes it confusing when each team's story clashes. Wwho won against who? Who actually did the thing to make the story progress?

>So the levels were different
>But the same
Fuck off brainlets. Can't believe you'd complain about more fresh content in a game. You deserve nothing after putting down the game of our generation

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SONIC HEROES SONIC HEROES
We'll show that creep the REAL SUPER POWER of TEAMWORK!

>If I change one word of this sentence it's totally different!
That's what you sound like.

i meant the style the levels had going for them looked really pleasant and gave me a classic sonic vibe

Where the fuck can I buy this game on PC? I had this as a kid and want to play again.

You can't manage that in most parts of most stages though, and notice how you had to start that sequence from a stop.

The mere fact that certain enemies require you to disable them and take multiple hits alone and there are progression gates based around killing them prevents it from being doable.

I miss this game

I don't know, but I vaugely recall hearing that it's better to emulate the GC version rather then to play the official PC port

What? No it's easily the worst.
>but 06!
06 is bad in a way you can enjoy mocking at the very least. Heroes is bad in that way where's just a miserably tedious experience and all the bottomless pits make it go from boring to frustrating.

You have to stop to spin dash in the Classic games too, it's not that big of a deal. The point is Heroes has the exact thing you mentioned. You can chain rocket accels to speed kicks to flight mode and gain lots of distance like that and skip sections.

What a wild ride...

Level Desing have iniciative. But just if they didn't have to fucked up the engine to make a multi-platform game, the game would have been more enjoyable

Playing Heroes itself is a slog

Reusing assets and having characters in the same level isn't inherently bad but Heroes does it in the worst way possible. If Sonic games were on a map then Sonic Adventure has you going through the same city while Sonic Heroes has you going through the same street.

So because Team Rose and Team Chaotix cut off parts of their stage of Lost Jungle before they get to the giant alligator chase, it's a completely different level?

Neo Metal Sonic, Mephiles and Infinite [less for this one] were interesting villains but wasted in a bad game.

of course, but once you start you can sustain the mometum in both the classics and adventure. You can't really do that throguhout whole stages or most of a given stage in heros.

Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Adventure 3 = Sonic Heroes
Sonic Adventure Gaiden = Shadow the Hedgehog

Except there's no indication that it was intended to be used in that way. As evidenced by the fact that you can't simply propel your way up to the ledge with the momentum of your rocket accel and you need to immediately switch to Fly formation just to barely scramble your way up. And miss me with those other examples of Heroes "utilizing" physics with the rocket accel, because they're either skipping a huge wall that is blatantly supposed to lock you in until you clear out the enemies, or just propelling out of bounds and over a chunk of a level. A speed run exploit is not a gameplay mechanic. Show me ONE (1) instance where you use rocket accel to gain access to an area where you otherwise couldn't by simply playing the game normally. I'll wait. But protip: you can't.

So yeah no, sorry. This is a dumb meme that I wish people would stop perpetuating. I don't buy that the rocket accel was intended to be used for "advanced" players to skip stuff with. Considering that most of the examples of the move being utilized in such a way are to specifically skip sections of a level? Sonic Team most likely did not intend it to be used that way, and people who present it as a real mechanic are either being disingenuous or looking way too hard at what is in all likelihood just an exploit.

Heroes might have had some faint glimmers of good design here and there, but this rocket accel shit? It was not one of them, and never will be.

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What would 06's name be?

SA2 doesn't have any intended level terrain to abuse the spin dash either. SA1 was the only 3D game that actually accomplished that.

WHAT COMES UP
MUST COME DOWN

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Heroes is dogshit compared to SA1/SA2. It’s barely better than 06

It has nothing to do with Sonic Adventure, it's a reboot. Why are you so retarded?

heroes is the best sonic ga- youtube.com/watch?v=RzZaKvhJNiU

How can 06 be a reboot when it kept Shadow's character development from Shadow the Hedgehog?

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Call it Sonic Adventure 4 if you must

>floaty controls
>omochao 2.0
>quippy quips that are even less funny than usual
>same shit coding as always
>character gimmicks that make little sense because they have to fit a specific role
>confusing level design
>enemies only designed to pad playtime
>bingo highway
>the game unironically gets better on Hard
>can't unlock Hard unless you do every single fucking thing with a high Rating
This game can fuck off.

I probably would have liked this game more if I didn't play Sonic Adventure 2 battle so much before it

Controls is a complain I never understood, when I played it, the control felt almost flawless, except for maybe the jungle section where you have to escape from the giant croc. Were there any difference between console versions? From experience I know a lot of people who complain about Heroes is because they played the PS2 version, while I played the GC one, so I'm not sure if that might be the case.

SHIT ROCK EAURGH

How did Sega not notice that it really sounds like he's saying shit?

SHAAAAA

I never understood why some people detest that game.
Aside from Team Rose being baby tier waste of time, rest of the game is great.

>play PC version with Japanese voices installed
>becomes much less annoying

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>flop
Heroes is still the best selling Sonic game of all times.
Not even joking.

No it's not, Sonic 2 is.

Kill yourself, contrarian retard.
Just fuck off and kill yourself. Nobody wants to read your moronic "opinions" on anything, let alone Sonic games.

YET MY FEET DON'T TOUCH THE GROUND

Just emulate the GC version.

Nope, Heroes is, it sold something like seven million units+.

This so much, I appreciate this post. You're 100% right and the guy you replied to is a fucking nigger idiot trying very hard to fit in.
Kill yourself you shitty nigger idiot.

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Why is the ost so good, bros?
youtube.com/watch?v=Nhp4fT8iyS8

what is supposed to be the glitch here

PS2 version was a buggy mess.

Why are 3D Sonic games slow as shit compared to 2D?

>Sold the best yet none of its mechanics or level designs, not even the best ones were ever implemented in a future Sonic game again
Why?

Beats me. But what did happen is that almost every single level appeared in every single sega kart racing game.

Better than Sonic Adventure 1 I can say that for sure.
I'm not done with Sonic Adventure 2 though so I can't say that for sure. But SA2 at least got rid of the confusing as fuck hub world that SA1 had.

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>not liking Bingo Highway
youtube.com/watch?v=mcrA4lNgutE

btw, have y'all ever heard the placeholder lyrics
youtube.com/watch?v=b6PgVQUhsxM

Enough with the contrarian posturing. SA2 is factually the best, by virtue of having the best playing Sonic/Shadow sections. If you made a game, with levels exclusive to them, it would be a contender for best Sonic game, behind 2 and 3.

It's buggy but yeah

>horrible voice acting
Maybe just Tails and Charmy.

It's the first bad Sonic game and where the massive decline really started. It's no surprise Shadow followed this up.

The physics are bad, the new mechanics range from busywork (changing to the character the devs decided you must use at this section), to redundant (do this super occasionally to just kill everything for free!) to utterly idiotic and completely against the design of Sonic games (standard enemies now have HP and you must defeat them to progress).

Among its other sins is making you play exactly the same fucking game 4 times, with only one team being slightly different and the 'easy' mode being a team almost no one would actually use on a first playthrough. Stages being far too long causing the game to become very boring and of course resurrecting Shadow despite his character act being compeltely closed and having died when he should have, causing him to drastically shift personality in every game since in failed attempts to differentiate him from Sonic when he can do nothing more than compete with him for the same niche because Hero shadow plays exactly the same role in the universe Sonic does. Other characters like Tails and Knuckles were also written differently and made into retards/one-note characters and they never recovered from this. More preference, but I also think the 'toy like' enemy design was a bad idea and I'm glad we moved away from it, though it persists to a lesser degree in new enemies of Mania and a few more recent games.

On the bright side, the gameplay isn't actually THAT bad, it's playable unlike some later games. The music is also good, as you expect even from bad sonic games.

No it fucking isn't lol shit taste

It's only buggy if you don't play the original Gamecube version.

Nope.
PS2 version was the absolute worst.

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>floaty controls
Slippery, mostly
>omochao 2.0
So?
>quippy quips that are even less funny than usual
First game to have quips during gameplay
>same shit coding as always
It was rushed
>character gimmicks that make little sense because they have to fit a specific role
Then wouldn't that make the most sense?
>confusing level design
Maybe if you're chaotix
>enemies only designed to pad playtime
LEVEL UP. A lot of them can be skipped or killed in one hit if you level up. Not those enemy rush fights though, those suck.
>bingo highway
Kino
>the game unironically gets better on Hard
True
>can't unlock Hard unless you do every single fucking thing with a high Rating
It's a privileged

Heroes started Sonic's downfall and Heroesniggers are delusional, nostalgia blinded faggots

Why is Egg Fleet Zone so fucking kino

Shadow the Hedgehog wasn't a bad game and it gets way too much hate.

Uh which ones?
I've never heard that before but Adventure 2 and Heroes can get pretty fast if you know what you're doing. Shadow The Hedgehog is slower, as is '06. Boost games are fast but not in a rewarding way

>confusing as fuck hub world
There are only three different hubs and they're all microscopically small

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Please forgive me.
I made a mistake.

holy shit the delusion

Yea Forums is hitting new levels of contrarian jesus christ

SA1 can be fast as fuck too, particularly as Sonic since SA1 was the game you can literally spam the spin-dash non-stop with no penalty

>havent played sonic adventure 2 in almost a year
>load up the game
>my save file is gone

fuck you too steam

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>utterly idiotic and completely against the design of Sonic games
You're a complete and utter fucking moronic idiot that doesn't know a fucking thing about the design of Sonic games so stop pretending you piece of shit idiot

IT'S NO USE... BUT WHY CAN'T I DEFEAT YOU?

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I can give it a lot more credit than Heroes because it tries some interesting things even if it doesn't succeed. It is also bad in an entertaining way with how jarring the whole tone of the game is and the bizarre dialogue/very janky levels.

Shadow the Hedgehog is like a bad horror movie, it's bad, but you can laugh at the bad parts and appreciate what did work. Heroes is just bad in the boring way. It doesn't really push the boat out and just comes out as utterly mediocre in every respect. There's no real reason to play the game because there's nothing notable about it beyond being kind of shit. There's no laughs to be had, only boredom.

I did and it's still buggy

Just because it's small doesn't mean it isn't confusing. If you're completely new to the game, it can give you some really obscure hints on where you need to go, and that's the main issue with it. Showcased best with having to return to the Egg Carrier Crash Site.

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It gets hate because it sounds like a really bad deviant art fan fiction, except it's an official game.
Shadow based spinoff would have been kino as it was if it wans't for the fact that you run around gunning people down with desert eagles and machine guns and driving around on motorcycles and jeeps.
Also By that time Shadow was supposed to have mellowed out and even then he was never an edgelord in SA2, he did tricks and said things like, "im the coolest" while dabbing through the air.
The fact that somebody took a five year olds letter saying how they want a Sonic game with guns seriously and did not laugh it out all to the way to the trash is disturbing.
There's also one of the endings where Shadow executes Sonic in the middle of the street, Mexican cartel style by blowing his brains out with a DE and leaving him to rot in a ditch.
literally, what the fuck were they thinking?

You just contradicted me without making a point. I put effort into my post so at least do the same.

Killing the momentum to a halt for you to homing attack something five times or pick the power dude and punch a bit is not good game design, and it is not what anyone is looking for in a Sonic game. The werewolf levels in unleashed were an extension on this terrible design trend, and it's just this same error turned up to 11. It is also a prominent feature of 06, padding levels with 'arenas' where you just hit off something five times over and over before the game decides to actually let you play it again.

Not the best 3D Sonic but better than the Adventure games

I never encountered a single bug or glitch in Gamecube Sonic Heroes and I 100%ed it.

The glowing ball literally tells you everything you need. Where to go and what to do, you just need to go there and activate fuck huge event trigger.

I just feel bad for people who had games like this as a kid and nostalgia over them to be honest.

Look at all those Eggman robots

>Showcased best with having to return to the Egg Carrier Crash Site.
Okay you're right actually, there are a few moments in the game that are a little annoying like that. And while it's not really that bad at all when you know what you're doing, the stupid key puzzles to open stages like Ice Cap are really just pointless wastes of time, I'll give you that. Overall I still like the Hub worlds and don't think they're that bad. I like talking to all the 100% useless and pointless NPCs, who not only have dialog but dialog that changes over the course of the game, and depending on which character you're playing. They put a lot of work into this content that probably 0.1% of players bother to see, just to help make the world feel more alive, and I appreciate it. It may not seem like much now but as a kid Station Square felt 100x more real and "alive" than Peach's Castle from Mario 64 which really did just feel like a Level Select Hub.

Please don't pity us, massa.
We don't deserve someone as enlightened as you to stress himself over animals like us.

I thought Yea Forums hate this game
Glad to see some love for it
It's my favourite sonic game

At least try to sound less asspained if you're going to make a snarky reply

It doesn't. It usually gives you vague hints or tells you the name where you need to go to. Telling you exactly the name where you need to go works for places like the Casino, but it doesn't work for the Egg Carrier at all because how you return to the Egg Carrier is by a raft that you literally never need to use and seems to serve no purpose except for the two times you need to return to it.

I don't detest hub worlds at all and I think they can be fine with Sonic. But this hub world wasn't done very well by the end result.

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People that say this are retarded. One average game that wasn't as good as its predecessors isn't going to spell downfall for a series otherwise most series would be considered to have a downfall. Sonic as a franchise didn't fall until the colossal failure that was 06.

Massa, please.
We're not worthy of your wast intellect being wasted on uncultured swines like us.
Leave us to wallow in our filth and discuss badong games.

Knuckles can jump infinitely if you hit the pause button in boom

>Adventure - good
>Adventure 2 - good
>Heroes - mediocre
>Shadow - bad
>'06 - dogshit
Heroes started it.

Heroes has a massive dip in quality and this was commented on widely when the game was released. Shadow was another massive dip, and it just continued to drop with only the GBA games and Rush maintaining a level of quality, and even they were considered much worse than their predecessors.

How did a bad game manage to sell seven million units?

It didn't.

>Heroes comes out and is average
>but there's still good games like Advance and Rush coming out
>06 comes out
>everything afterwards is just garbage upon garbage like Secret Rings, Chronicles, half of Unleashed, Black Knight, Rivals
See how one of these games starts a downward slope while the other one is only a slight bump?

Kill yourself.

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I mean, Heroes was the first Sonic game I was disappointed by. How am I not supposed to say it started it when every following game was also a disappointment? Starting the trend doesn't mean I think it's the most egregious.

Heroes sold more than SA1/2 because instead of just coming out on the Dreamcast (which nobody had) and eventually GCN, Heroes came out on the Gamecube, PS2, Xbox, AND PC.

Shadow was the first Sonic game I was disappointed by. Yeah maybe I was a bit miffed it wasn't exactly like Sonic Adventure 2 back in the day but it was still fun. I think people compare Heroes too much to the Adventure games instead of looking at the merits it does have like doing Classic Sonic styled pathing better than either of them

>completely ignoring Colors, both the console and handheld version, generations, unleashed and two 10/10 kart racing games
>lost world, which was just average
IGN, please go.

I consider Unleashed a reboot

Colors and Generations were years later, I was trying to keep the timeframes the same. Also Colors onwards should be considered a whole new era. Where the games got somewhat better but lost their soul

>no spin dash
>meaning no spin dashing off of slopes and flying 10 miles
>best

Rocket Accel can do the same thing if you're not a brainlet.

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that's not nearly as far

That's almost exactly as far the spin dash takes you in Emerald Coast of SA1.

Why are zoomers trying to revise history? Heroes is garbage, slightly better than Shadow and 06, but still garbage.

I think people over focus on the aesthetic desu. Heroes has really solid presentation, I'll give it that, but I don't think the level design itself is very classic Sonic at all. It's very setpiece centric, taking different paths is pretty much solely determined by character gimmicks instead of fluid movement and building speed.

>After this Metal Sonic was reprogrammed to return to his Eggman goon position.
Despite its issues this is the only game in the series where Metal was finally a legitimate threat and could finally express his feelings. without being a slave to Eggman.

Don't forget it's filled to the brim with grind rails and sections forcing you to fight waves of enemies.

You're right that the paths don't rely on fluid movement like the Classics but it still has the aspects where the higher paths are harder to stay on and if you fall, you'll end up a slower lower path. And that's at least more than what the Adventure 2 did.

Adventure 1 is kind of a different story though. It had the fluid movement but not the tiered level design and Heroes is the exact opposite. I honestly feel like a god tier Sonic game would have been made if they combined the best aspects of both

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Oh I didn't I'm just trying to be a little delicate and foster real discussion instead of being labeled a hater
though truth be told I do fucking hate Heroes, but I can see things about it people may like

Interesting how you didn't use a heroes level to show this off
almost as if the level design sucks dick

Literally the gif posted at the start of the thread

Wow you can skip an enemy arena, something that should not even be in a sonic game in the first place
This really compares to speeding through the entirety of windy valley by making a well-placed jump

>complain when you're forced to fight enemies in Heroes
>complain when someone shows you that you don't by utilizing SLOPES and MOMENTUM which is WHAT YOU WANT IN THESE GAMES

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If I fuck up a jump in Adventure I at least still can play through a decent level
If I fuck up a jump in Heroes I am forced to play something terrible

Then git gud and stay on the higher path. Just like the Aquatic Ruin in Sonic 2 where if you fail a jump, you're forced to play a shitty underwater level. But I don't see anyone raising pitchforks over that.

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Key thing is that even if you make that jump, you're still fucking playing sonic heroes

i got over 100 hours on sonic heroes. dear god.

I seem to remember most falling in Heroes being over bottomless pits save for some paths where the triangle jump and whatever that tornado attack was called get utilized, in which case you take a slightly slower path if you fuck those up.
From what I remember most of the levels are pretty straightforward but with some small detours that give you a choice of which character you wanna use for a short section before being put back on the main path.
I played it pretty recently but only got about halfway through, so that might be where I'm getting that impression. I do remember the later levels being a bit more open.

>what im made of is actually metals theme about how he hates being copy of sonic and not having a identity.

absolute kino.

Chaotix > Sonic >> Dark >>> Rose

>There are people on Yea Forums who started with Heroes and thus now unironically defend it

Thank god I'm older and started with SA2B, an actually good Sonic game. Heroes was the beginning of the downfall into shit that culminated in 06.

I've played Sonic since the Genesis and I like Heroes, fight me nigger

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I started with heroes and I fucking loathe it now

Playing through it right now with Team Sonic, the first few levels were fun, but the later stages are an annoyance to play, with so many specific areas of the level that are hard to traverse because of terrible control and level design. I really like the team mechanic though, I wish it became a formula for later games, and I don't hate the combat.

I started with Sonic 2, you stupid fucking zoomer trash.

>started with SA2B
Same here. Looking back though I kinda wish Sonic 3 was my first since it ended up being my fave.

Better than the retards here who unironically started with Generations and think it's peak modern Sonic.

It's good to know that no matter how much we argue, all us Genesis and Adventure era boomers can unite against the boost zoomers

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THEY'RE DETECTIVES YOU WANT ON YOUR SIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE

>Who's this fucking fat tittied broad?
How did Vector get away with saying this?

I can't believe I never understood this until now. Man, this game was somethin'.

Depends on what you mean by flop. The reviews may not be all that favorable, but it's one of the top selling Sonic games

I started with Heroes and Shadow, and my favorite game in the series is Mania

Started with Heroes and Shadow.
Shadow is bad but I have fun going back to it and messing around.
Did a playthrough of Heroes with some friends as a joke recently, it's fucking miserable. Can't imagine how retarded someone has to be to think it's a good game.

hello fellow ps2 kid
>tfw had a ps2 but wanted a gamecube badly for pokemon colosseum and sonic adventure

I have no idea why Adventurefags and Heroesfags keep trying to force this narrative that the mechanics in those games being so badly implemented that you can use them to casually do unintended speedrun-tier sequence breaking exploits is meant to be a good thing, let alone proof that they're actually misunderstood kino

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>unintended

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>Heroes on PC has option to mute all characters voices during gameplay and it's called Charmy_Shutup
Can't make this shit up

>There are people on this board, in this thread, who haven't played the master system/game gear games

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I have, Triple Trouble's the only one that's actually good

I played Triple Trouble, it was okay but it was only like 20 minutes long. Guess I should've went for the emeralds but I don't really feel the need for a second playthrough.
Sonic 2 for game gear can eat my ass though.

Triple Trouble special stages are pretty interesting because they have boss fights with Fang.

Heroes was Metal Sonic peak.

*ahem*

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The first one was also good. 2 and Chaos are bad though. And blast is outright awful

sa1>>unleashed>sa2>>generations>>>>>>>>>>>>>>heroes

Is it true that Metal Sonic is Sonic from the bad future?

Metal saves this film

That sounds like headcanon. Eggman made two robot Sonics before Metal Sonic, so it's not like it's something he wouldn't do.

What? No.

Did you just not play adventure? You need to skip level segments to get a good time as sonic, and tails' entire gimmick is breaking the levels

Sonic CD would have been kino if it were true.

Based

The MS/GG games are fun little platformers but it wasn't until the Advance games where we actually got handheld Sonic games that felt akin to the Genesis games

i didn't even know sonic heroes was actually on the psn store

Sonic CD came out before 3

The only A mission for Sonic I needed to skip chunks of level for was Twinkle Park
I guess Red Mountain too if you count spindash jumping over a couple platforms but that's not really skipping anything, just optimal play.
I did do the glitch at the end of Sky Deck for funsies though, note how the game designers never considered you'd try spindashing up a slope for height in that case.

Yeah but it's the PS2 version so don't even bother. Just emulate it on Dolphin.

How can you forget this dude, he was in Mania cmon man

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Wrong game.
I need my slopes, damnit.

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Shadow is my favorite Sonic game, and I'm unemployed!

started with 2 and i still have a soft spot for heroes.

If you didnt start with sonic 1 you need to shut up

Trash game liked by trash people
>dude just play the game 4 times lmao

3 times, chaotix is its own thing