How would you fix him?

faggot alert
faggot alert

Give him a counter

Give him better recovery but make him weaker

buff his recovery

Just give him a recovery, and aerials that do more than 0.00000000000000001 damage.

You can't. A character with bad aerials in Smash can never be fixed.

As Tweek said, he's a character in a platform fighter that can't utilize platforms and fighting him isn't even fun because the character forces you to camp by armoring through any attempt at engaging
Just scrap the whole kit and try again

There's honestly no reason to "salvage" him, he does what he wants to do fine. Just because that isn't a good skillset to have for the competitive format doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game at all.

he has one. also he can punch through peoples punches.

No changes, he is fine as is

Give him arsene except it doc louis buffing his attacks

no, how wold you fix her?

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>Forward tilt
>endlag
you're joking right

>slower
>don’t make smash move insta-KO
>better jumping
>less damage output
>no more infinite attack, 3 hits is enough
>no more invincible attack

Let me guess, just using this as an excuse just to say the n word.

this

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Increase the size of her smash hitbox, maybe make it faster too.

>doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game at all
Let characters be disabled from random in game options then please

Let him get a full combo off of counter

less clothes

>As Tweek said, he's a character in a platform fighter that can't utilize platforms and fighting him isn't even fun because the character forces you to camp by armoring through any attempt at engaging
It pisses me off that everyone I play with calls me a pussy for pointing this out. Playing against a Mac is annoying as hell.

Well im out of ideas

Actually would be pretty cool if his counter stunned enemies with a shocked expression on their face and forced them to miss their tech if they hit his counter while they were in the air instead of being an actual counter but it's probably too similar to Witch time at this point.

Less endlag between Fair 1 & 2 to enable combo starting mixups
Slightly less endlag on Witch Time
Less landing lag on the lingering variations of Bayo's aerials
Less landing lag penalty overall upon using Specials multiple times in the air then landing.
Slightly improved hitboxes on Down Tilt, Up Air & Nair.

Get rid of him, bayo, and corrin

that's a good start. I hate fighting against pikachu's.

also she needs a bit more damage or make her heavier.

Mac should have the best grounded neutral in the game. Forward Tilt may already be good but it could be better.

Cheap as fuck. That invincible shit is OP.
He should just be removed but Ganon and Ryu need to have their invincible moves removed cause it ruins smash

Just grab them, dude

Give him godlike horizontal recovery but leave his bad vertical recovery

better aerials and air movement

idk why nintendo is so bent on making him shit in the air, they dont make characters with wings shit on the ground

Let him make short lived platforms in the air a la the Vat from shovel knight (or rather, plague of shadows).
There. Now rather than being instantly fucked as soon as the enemy can do stuff off the stage, he can do stuff off the stage too, it just requires planning and forethought.

Give him two counters

Nope. It ruins smash. The hit goes to the better(faster) player, not the one using OP moves. Little Mac shouldn’t get to charge up for a one hit K.O. I mean what the fuck is with that cheap shit?
And Cloud
Fuck Cl*ud

Again, you're joking right?

I've main Mac since day 1 smash 4. He has been my most wanted character. I stick by him no matter what and I will main him regardless of how shitty people say he is. He needs several small changes in Ult. A lot of people suggest large amount of buffs which would be nice but is basically completely fictional because the balance team probably fucking hates Mac. Among mac mains, his biggest needed changes are

>You can use side b again after getting hit
Mac is one of the fucking few characters who can't side b after getting hit and its fucking retarded. You have shit tons of characters with much better recovery options being able to do all sorts of shit but they decide to nerf the worse recovery in the game even more (i still think Doc's or Chrom's recovery is worse)

>less knock back/more hitstun on tilts to allow for combos
One of Mac's biggest strengths in 4 was his combo game. Its nearly nonexistent in Ult. One of the very fucking few confirmed combos he has that doesn't require neutral air spam (which is fucking atrociously bad and stupid) is down tilt to double side b or down tilt to up b.

>lower kill confirm percents
Mac's have no problem racking the opponent up with damage. They have a problem trying to get kill confirms with them. When you have a guy fighting Mac, the suppose glass cannon of the series, still surviving at 120%+ multiple times throughout matches is retarded. His F-smash, side b and F-tilt are his only 'reliable' kill moves and they extremely vary depending on the opponent.

If you want random buffs, sure he could use them. Hell, he needs them more than nearly any fighting character in any game and its ridiculous how he hasn't gotten buffed yet. He proposed to be the strongest character on the ground yet he doesn't have the strongest ground moves at all. As much as everyone will hate it, he needs ganon tier smash attacks.

I have lots of buff ideas from myself and the small mac main community but my post is too long

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His grounded frame data is amongst the best in the game.
Giving him good aerial game would make him broken.

give him a gun

Remove Little Mac Players from existence.

Also add Falco and Inkling players into the mix too.
I would make them into bonemeal.

Based

Mac doing Ganon-tier damage on smash attacks is my wet dream i hope they fix him

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They're not invincible. They're super armor. They take the damage of your attack without flinching in order to make a read. Armored moves have given high reward consistently in every game, not just Smash, and even then characters that rely on armor are often bad because you can grab through it and because they still take damage they get fucked if they start to make bad calls.

>Cloud
I would have agreed in 4, but they gutted him good in this one. Cloud went from "braindead" in 4 to just "good" in Ultimate.

Replace him with Banjo

>he needs ganon tier smash attacks
he has one hit kill KOs, what the fuck more do you want?

>smash attacks have next to no endlag
>:"lets give him ganon tier knockback and damage on his already fast attack speed"

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Buffs
>Give him actual combos
>Revert his aerials back to how they worked in Smash 4 so they actually do something and are rewarding to hit instead of doing fuck all
>KO punch should actually work against opponents in the air
Drawback
>Make it so super armor only comes out when the smash attacks are fully charged, or get rid of it entirely

Based
Ubermensch

Why would I be joking? The character literally has no air game to speak of. With great flaws should come great strengths to compensate, instead of trying to homogenize everything and create yet another boring all rounder.

Make him slower, remove his retard armor and free meme kill button, and make Mac players actually have to think instead of wait for their opponents to approach so they can fsmash.

Fuck super armor that shit’s gay and cringe
>implying I’m buying ultimate
Why would I buy a whole new game and console for the same shit? Fuck cloud and fuck you too

ftilt is safe on block already, what's the point of making it safer?

This is why Macfags need to perish. They don’t want challenge, they just want to win

Change his kit up a bit.
>Instead of the KO Punch, Mac gets stars from hitting opponents that are in the process of performing strong attacks with a strong attack (e.g., hit Ganondorf while he's F-smashing before the hitbox comes out with a strong move and you'll get a Star). He can have up to 3 stars at once.
>Instead of Rising Uppercut, Mac's Up special is now just a straight up uppercut, in the style of his Star Punch. The more stars he has, the better the recovery (and more powerful and longer range the punch.)
>Make his counter a bit more unique; it'd be like a dodge, but it'd give him time to perform any move if he triggered it when an opponent attacks. Like a parry, but with movement associated with it. It would also be a movement option mid-air that would allow Mac to easily retreat and come back to the stage after attempting to gimp his opponents.
>Slightly increase the power/range of all aerials. They should be like Roy's wet noodle sword attacks - weak, but can combo into other moves and send people away a good distance.
>Allow his side special to come back after he uses it off stage and gets hit.

>buffing f-tilt when it has no fucking endlag and has kill potential
>the safest move mac has
>"nah bro it needs a buff"
what the fuck

Chill mate, if you state your hatred for a character, I would naturally assume you own the game. Seems like a fair assumption to make.

Extra based

Change his Up B from a corkscrew punch to a Star Uppercut that you can charge and move in certain directions like Diddy Kong's Barrel Blast.

It really would be amazing

Only 50 IQ players usually get hit with KO punch, its extremely easy to avoid, doesn't do any damage or knockback in the air, can be super armored and goes away with knockback after its 4 seconds of invincibility. Not only that, he only gets to use that move once or twice within a game.

His smash attacks barely have any range and are easily punishable if the guy is spamming it. I would gladly take more end lag if it meant more damage any day of the week.

We just want our character to be viable and not be the absolute bottom of the barrel in the community. I'm not begging on my knees for him to be top tier but I just don't want to see my favorite character get his own bottom tier named after him. No one takes the character seriously. You would do the same for your main if he was in this situation.

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This nigga knows

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Toon Link doesn’t need meme attacks and meme armor to win and be top tier. Little Fag needs meme gimmicks to have a chance and he still sucks because of his meme KOs.
Ban macfags from the tournies

>Thread about Little Mac in ultimate
>complains about smash 4 Cloud
Bit weird

>Why doesn't muh fast as fuck main with fast as fuck attack have Ganon-tier damage???
>Only 50 IQ players get hit by this blink-and-you'll-miss it KO move that hits you through shield and kills starting at like 30%

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Why would you ban the worst character in the entire game from tournaments?

I like you user. Would you like to be my chancelor?

Want to fix Mac? Take away his SA except at the start of side B. Refresh side B when hit off. give him shieldstop and instant platform stop as unique mechanics along with a jump that can get him to the platforms. There you go. Now he's fixed. Not brokenly good. Not unusable. If you want to be really nice, make his jab eat or stop projectiles.

Yup. Superarmor on moves that aren't super fucking risky are dumb as fuck anyways. A good example of superarmor is the start of DK's grounded spinning kong or even his donkey punch.

His counter, like all counters, has invincibility frames though, which it shouldn't. If you read a counter and try to grab at the startup, you whiff the grab. A big gripe I have for that shit, along with the damn active frames being wayyyy too lingering.

We won’t ban little Mac, we’ll ban people who play little Mac, even if they choose a different character

GO! GO! MAKO!

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Same shit, same OP KO move that nusmash fangoys love. Get rid of them

>Little Fag needs meme gimmicks
thats what i fucking want you brain dead dried up tomato pizza face troglodyte. he needs fucking shit that works to his kit. Fucking F-tilt doesnt even connect the two punches he has half the time

Bait out KO punches if you are getting hit by them. Mac players are also nervous as fuck with KO punch because they know its an all in attack. Unless he get's his KO instantly and uses it or sets it up with a jab lock or dtilt, you shouldn't be getting hit by it.

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It would be mein honor

>>His smash attacks barely have any range
It the average amount of range compared to any other brawler in the game, you expect his attacks to reach across the fucking stage?
>easily punishable if the guy is spamming it.
ALL of his smash attack have super armor
ALL of his smash attacks have no fucking endlag on top of that
ALL of his smash attacks have good kill potential
>N-NO I HAVE MY GANON TIER DAMAGE AND KNOCKBACK ON TOP OF THAT

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Down b spawns a punching bag he can use like Pac-Man's hydrant, or punch/grab it to send it flying as a projectile. This gives him some range as a means to avoid the ledges aka Little Mac killzones, and a character with fuckhuge strength on top of super armor doesn't need a goddamn counter to begin with.

He needs to be deleted from the game. His meme attacks, meme counter and meme armor are just ridiculous. And you faggots want him to be EVEN MORE OP!

>Revert Grounded Side B & Down Tilt to their Smash 4 state
Yeah, I'd love to not be able to side-B near the side of the stage like before! Fucking retard.

Giving him flight

She’s not wearing clothes. It’s all hair.

Complete overhaul, his curremt desigm is way too lopsided and unga.

Make uptilt and ftilt link properly
Bullet Arts do slightly more damage
Bair hitbox increased
Fthrow killpower increased
Nair knockback increased
Dtilt hitbox increased
Upair sends at a higher angle and has more knockback growth
Fair sends at a lower angle
Give Witch time its S4 frame data but keep Ult's duration

She wont be anywhere close to as broken she was in 4, especially since Fair 1 (her best combo tool) is gone, but she can still be a cool high tier

Why would you be dumb enough to Side B off the stage in the first place?

Hell, if you Side B off the stage in Ultimate, you're as good as dead because even if he retains his recovery afterwards it's too shit to get him back on the stage. "Fucking retard"

Mac isn't overpowered but Mac players are so fucking braindead that they want the character to have literally zero flaws. It's not enough to be insanely good on the ground, hit extremely hard, have a move that instakills at any percent higher than 30, and have almost unlimited super armor on smash attacks that have zero end lag, he also needs to be good in the air, hit twice as hard as he already does, have combos, and have a good recovery. What a bunch of fucking shitters.

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>you expect his attacks to reach across the fucking stage?
No obviously it would be within reason. You have things such as Ganon's F-smash, the most powerful one in the game, that can literally attack you from his back then its fucking bullshit that Mac's hitboxes are so fucking small. His entire playstyle is to be able to do big dick damage and risk it all by going off stage. He is one of the easiest character to gimp in the game and every player knows that is his weakness.
>ALL of his smash attack have super armor
>ALL of his smash attacks have no fucking endlag on top of that
>ALL of his smash attacks have good kill potential
You have a character that does average damage on the ground with no air game and you are crying about the one thing that is decent about him. He needs some sort of buff, maybe not to his smash attacks and maybe not to his range of the attacks but just fucking something that allows him to actually compensate for his tiny dick.

weak bait

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>Why would you be dumb enough to Side B off the stage in the first place?
HAHAHAHA, you're so fucking stupid, dude.

>average damage on the ground
>if you Side B off the stage in Ultimate, you're as good as dead
Why do people who don't even play Mac try to talk about shit regarding him?

>Make him punch across the stage
>super armor: ALL THE TIME
>100% damage insta-KO from smash hits
>make the insta-KO hit work all the time, don’t make it so you have to charge it up
>give him flight
>ganon tier damage
>sonic tier speed
>captain falcon tier meteor smashes

>Why would you be dumb enough to Side B off the stage in the first place?

double side b is a really good edge guard tool that will usually always kill the opponent and you are always able to get back on stage. Mac players that just side b off the stage don't actually play or know mac.

>It's not fair that my favorite character's best ground game in the roster is balanced by the worst air game! He needs to have his balancing flaws taken away!

He's only bad if you respect him as a character. He washes out in bracket entirely because people will camp him. It's the same shit but opposite as to why ICs see any success. People not respecting a gimmick = that gimmick working.

Mac is 100% a gimmick character with a very strong gimmick, but it's so in-your-face people are willing to avoid it. Either be okay with giving up the gimmick entirely or know you'll never be buffed because it would be crippling to the meta. Like, if he was as good of a character as, say, Wolf... so a character with flaws but great MUs and all-around utility... but still had his SA shit, he would be cancerous to the meta by skewing the risk/reward of an exchange entirely into his favor, forcing people to either camp harder or lose.

Can Ridley get some buffs too, please?

>worse character in the game
>people ABSOLUTELY seething at the fact that mac players want buffs

just admit you that you will shiver in fear if Mac actually got decent enough buffs

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God I hope so.
Shit-tier bait.

Nerf Wolf while we're at it cause fuck that furry dickhead safe on everything bullshit Lazer garbage.

>You have things such as Ganon's F-smash, the most powerful one in the game, that can literally attack you from his back
The most powerful but it's also one of the slowest fucking ones and you'll get punished to hell and back if you miss even ONE of these.
>then its fucking bullshit that Mac's hitboxes are so fucking small.
Not really
>He is one of the easiest character to gimp in the game and every player knows that is his weakness.
Which is why you try your best to stay on the stage. It's not even hard to stay on the stage because due to his ridiculous lack of endlag you can just spam smash attacks like a retard on top of his already broken super armor.
>He needs some sort of buff, maybe not to his smash attacks and maybe not to his range of the attacks but just fucking something that allows him to actually compensate for his tiny dick.
Then what does he need buffed then? You're complaining about the character but offer no ways to actually improve said character. His ground game is fucking broken but buffing his aerials with make him broken as a whole. He's fine as is.

Make him do more damage

I have a legit concern that he'll get no substantial buffs before updates finish or worse get nerfs. Oh but let's buff FE dash grab range lol! Fuckers.

Just Super Armor harder

Stop making him "true to his series" and just make a boxer-style character in a platform fighter. Obviously his fist-based attacks should be the strongest and be the main attacks he has.

Don't overly gimp is air game. He's athletic, and has buff legs and arms. Give him good jumps. Give him decent aerials. Either weak, but useful, or strong and laggy-ish akin to ganon's or ike's aerials.

His recovery is fine I think, buff his air acceleration a tad. I want the player to feel the same amount of pressure like a ganon offstage. That thin line of "I don't have a double jump, but if I time my airdodge, read the opponent's trap, I should be good".

Keep the smashes the same, get rid of the armor. Have his tilts lead into smash attacks. Boxers don't just throw big blows at random, not all the time anyways.

And personally get rid of counter. Make it change is fight style. Currently he's orthodox, but maybe switch styles to a quick speedy type, that has weaker launching power, but can rack up damage quickly with rapid strings like tr4sh shiek.

As a bonus, can I get American Mac? The goofy kid from the bronx like in the Wii version. This "anime-esqe" smash incarnate doesn't do it for me. I was hoping for Spring-Man to come in to play counter to Mac in terms of gameplay and personality, but guess not.

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this, macfags retards

I don't really give two fucks considering that Mac grinds the game to a halt anyways. "Camp the midget" is absolutely no fun to play and everyone who forces the game to become that by playing as him deserves to suffer.

What super armor does Ridley have? Hell I wish he had some.

Characters like Ganon and other heavy weights have a much better ground game than Mac. You may not believe it but its true. The only good things on the ground for mac are his smash attacks. His grab is terrible, his jab is terrible, his tilts don't do shit and his F-tilt doesn't even connect most of the time. His B has terrible ranged if its not fully charge, has terrible amounts of endlag and only does damage if you fully charge it.

IMO the gimmick is too one sided. There is barely any reward and there are shit tons of risk. He gets punished way more than what the rewards are. If the gimmick actually worked he wouldn't be as much of a low tier as he is

>Then what does he need buffed then?
Literally small things such as side b coming back after you get hit and less knockback or more hit stun from his tilts for his combo game. Shit that rewards decent little mac players who are able to set up combos and not braindead ones who only know how to spam F-smash. He doesn't need (though it would be nice) to have more damage, he just needs to be able to follow up more attacks rather than just doing dash attack. I fucking hate using dash attack as Mac but its the only option I have most of the time

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You weren't talking about Mac?

Oh nah was commenting on his response to the Ridley question.

i assume you also hate counters? ken and ryu's superarmor moves are basically shitty counters except you can dash cancel it.

Gannon's fsmash is not the most powerful in the game, it's dedede's fsmash

>Characters like Ganon and other heavy weights have a much better ground game than Mac.
Mac's grounded moves are universally faster and all have utility. What are you smoking?
>The only good things on the ground for mac are his smash attacks. His grab is terrible, his jab is terrible, his tilts don't do shit and his F-tilt doesn't even connect most of the time.
D-tilt leads into follow-ups, specifically his KO Punch. F-tilt, when used at an optimal close range is fast and strong as hell, and an actual KO option. U-tilt leads into itself and Up-B. Literally the only thing you're right about is the grab.
>His B has terrible ranged if its not fully charge, has terrible amounts of endlag and only does damage if you fully charge it.
If you actually use that shit in neutral, you're actually retarded.

Have you actually ever played as Little Mac before?

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If Smash (or fighting games in general) had ground based combos, I’d agree, but Little MAC as is is a fun character. If only he was good

Nigga, you straight-up don't know shit about Little Mac

>If Smash (or fighting games in general) had ground based combos, I’d agree
???

If you want him to have actual combos you'd have to lower his attack power to compensate.

He does incredible damage as is, giving him MORE combos to rack that shit up faster will be slightly broken.

Combos are heavily air based. I’d love if Little Mac could just combo like he does in Punch Out, but that would involve him having any sort of air game and that wouldn’t suit him

This is the biggest issue with the dev team. If there is an old character with a moveset that doesn't fit the character for whatever reason, they just keep it. They only like small balancing shit, they rarely go hard enough like with Ganondorf's changes over the years

ken and ryu have ground combos. every character's a button is a ground combo.

Only Marth and Roy’s counter’s are acceptable
*CRACK*
Siiiiip

>Mac's grounded moves are universally faster and all have utility.
The only utility they have is super armor. Besides F-smash, all of his smash attacks are easily punishable
>D-tilt leads into follow-ups, specifically his KO Punch. F-tilt, when used at an optimal close range is fast and strong as hell, and an actual KO option. U-tilt leads into itself and Up-B. Literally the only thing you're right about is the grab.
Again as i mentioned before, most of his tilts get much high knock back at higher percents making his combo game for them near obsolete. Yes you are right about D tilt and then following up with KO punch. The only other move where he could do that is gentlemen jabbing twice. Up tilt only leads itself into up B if the opponent SDI's the wrong way. Up tilt doesn't lead into itself at higher percents
>If you actually use that shit in neutral, you're actually retarded.
I know I'm partially retarded for sticking with this shit character for so long. My point was that his special is fucking worthless unless the opponent is stunned via shield break.

His only combos are D tilt to one other attack or up tilt to up tilt at low percents. He doesn't have jack shit combos. There is nothing wrong with buffing a character in which only good players will utilize the buffs properly. Braindead players don't know anything about combos and use still use smash attacks on c stick.

While you all hype up his ground game, he has jack shit when it comes to recovery. He regularly dies at extremely low percents because the opponent was able to land one aerial attack on him. If the character is going to have a shitty recovery, he needs something to make up for it. The community nearly unanimously agree's he is the worse character in the game and he desperately needs buffs no matter how little or big they may be

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>character is garbage and is literally the biggest dumpster fire in the game
>Yea Forums doesn't wanna buff because its not a cute waifu or a bearmode furry

never change, Yea Forums.

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Why the fuck you buff his insanely good ground game? If you want actual proper combos you'd have to lower some of his attack power. Otherwise you'd get to 80% in like 3 fucking seconds into the game.
>he has jack shit when it comes to recovery. He regularly dies at extremely low percents because the opponent was able to land one aerial attack on him.
Yeah everyone on the roster can get gimped except for a select few characters that can recovery from the depths of hell itself (Cuck Rool and Pac-Man). But sure, I guess his recovery can get buffed a little

No we don’t wanna buff him because he’s a garbage character to begin with

>Single best ground game
>Lightning fast, lagless, strong, damaging SUPER ARMORED Smash attacks
>Tilts lead into setups at low percent
Little Macs have no problems racking up damage. The whole point of the character is to hit and run and sneak in hits until they're at kill percent.

so what characters would you wanna buff, fire emblem characters right?

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>Cuck Rool
Spotted the insecure Ashleyfag. Still coping over last August?

>While you all hype up his ground game, he has jack shit when it comes to recovery. He regularly dies at extremely low percents because the opponent was able to land one aerial attack on him. If the character is going to have a shitty recovery, he needs something to make up for it.
Hey, Einstein. His shit recovery is there to counterbalance having the best ground game

>character is nightmarishly unfun to play against and everyone who plays as him constantly bitches and moans that he gets camped out and gimped super easily
>so this character should be buffed

Revert back to smash 4 state but keep the limit on how many times after burner kick can be refreshed

Just fix his recovery, and make his aerials more elusive. If you can't kill with his aerials but they have some specific usefullness then there's a reason for them to exist.

Mac needs a overhaul on his entire kit and most faggots here are just calling out how absurd it is to buff mac's already good ground game.

No I just want to remove shitty characters. Make it more like the melee roster
*holds monster zero energy ultra can in pose to toast*

>he thinks im an ashelyfag

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>character is literally the worst character in the game and if you have trouble fighting him your gabrage
>doesn't need a buff

i sure bet you enjoy fire emblem.

a roster where half of the roster is viable and ganondorf is the worst character? it could work out

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>Melee
>half of the roster is viable
More like a quarter at most

I wouldn't want to buff his ground game, i would buff small things to his kit that shouldn't have been implemented to his kit in the first place such as being unable to side b after getting hit. Everyone over exaggerates how much stuff he needs to get good but he literally needs a few small tweaks and thats it.

read the fucking reply chain instead of just pressing bottom and replying to the first post you see. He has too much risk and fucking little reward for his attacks.

Despite how controversial this statement is, he isn't the best ground character. Characters such as ike, ganon etc have much better ground game then mac because they can also short hop their forward/neutral air on top of their powerful tilt attacks that don't need to connect like Mac's as well as their several great options to approach the opponent. You know how you approach as little mac? Dash attack (a move everyone hates) or an extremely well side b in which you have to suffer the major end lag at the end of it. Not to mention that if he gets knockbacked from his attempted side b that he will most likely die off stage due to the fact of it not coming back to him. He doesn't have the best ground game despite what everyone says. I wouldn't be autstically complaining about it if he actually did have the best ground game. Just because you have super armor for several frames doesn't mean you are the best ground character.

Make him a normal character why did they have to make him such a gimmick oh god I was so excited for him oh fuck

I like how the Macfag tries to downplay Mac's good selling points while straight-up admitting he does retarded shit like running around dash-attacking, using side-b/neutral-b in neutral, and doesn't use tilts.

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>everyone over exaggerates how much stuff he needs to get good
Like you’ve been doing this entire time? you started out saying he needs ganon tier damage and knockback and has been backpedaling after so many people called you retarded for it.
>unable to side B after getting hit
I think that applies for other characters too

I just wish Mac wasn't so easy to gimp. A single grab is basically all you need to 0-death Little Mac.

I would nerf Wolf

No.

What the fuck happened to his armor? It seems people can just waltz and fuck through the Jolt Haymaker, forward tilt, and Up B. His KO punch feels a lot worse and seemingly is really easy to just get grabbed out of. It's like they just took away what made up for his awful qualities without giving him anything new.
I don't think you can fix him. He literally doesnt have an aerial game.

Give him aerials that are as good as Jigglypuff's ground moves. They're the same sort of character, just reversed so it's fine. Also refresh side b

How can you be so retarded you think Mac has better recovery than Chrom

You know how Ike can just fly back to stage with his sideB?

Let LM have that with his neutral.

Yes. Cloud too

complete redesign, there is literally no way to buff him without him becoming even more unfun to fight or butcher his main theme

No.

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This. Good little Mac in his current state would be cancer

>mac has the best ground game
He's just Lucina without a sword or functional aerials

Yea, I'm not a complete faggot and I'll admit I backpedal a bit. Fucking tired as shit from today. The point I was making is that he needs buffs in some areas and I was just saying suggestions. Of course I don't want another character with ganon tier smash attacks and range but its one of the many suggestions people suggest. The side b thing only happens to a very few amount of characters and shouldn't happen to whats already the worse recovery in the game. it was a change in ult because he could side b again in 4.

retard. Dash attack is one of Mac's best attacks of course you have to use it. You could cancel your dash with f-tilt but thats about it for approaching. Also no fucking way I use neutral b in neutral, that whole shit was a misunderstanding. You completely missed where I stated its only usable when the opponent is stunned via shield break. As well, double side b in neutral provides armor against ranged attacks and has fast hit boxes when you use it. Again, I stated that it's one of his few options to use.
>doesn't use tilts
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Counter propels Mac forward. Mac also has side b. Chrom has a much better recovery vertically but not horizontally.

alright im done for tonight. I spent the last hours advocating for buffs for my favorite character in a childrens fighting game. Was a pleasure arguing on here again like always. Hope that you all have a great rest of your night.

IMO i really only want his side b to come back, i would be fine with how he is. I just speak for the mac community when talking about his flaws and suggested buffs. It's just frustrating having your favorite character be the bottom of the barrel. I don't want to wish this fate upon anyone else

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>liking nuanime
Shit taste
Ban macfags, bayofags, corrinfags and cloudfags from the smash industry
All Vault-Boy, Banjo, Crash, and Dixie-Kong instead

Lucina doesn't even have a good ground game does she? Like 90% of Lucina gameplay is floating in the air using fairs and nairs to keep people at arms reach, she plays nothing alike.

Literally remove his aerial attacks and just give him aerial mobility. Fair moves him forward, bair moves him backwards, etc.
Make up-b go higher and make side-b refresh after getting hit in the air.
Give him a move that can pull the other fighter out of the air, something like Joker's grapple hook but with a slightly bigger hitbox, and instead of launching the enemy it throws them onto the ground, maybe even stunning them for about half a second.
Give all of his smash attacks just a little more knockback.

There, he's functional now.

God rosterfaggotry is a special kind of mental illness.

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Rework him so he's an Arms crossover character

Who can grapple to ledges from a mile away

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>retard detected
They function entirely different.

Lucina has a solid ground game. Ftilt stuffs 90% of approaches, dtilt is a great poke, and utilt is one of the best in the game unless you're fighting someone who naturally low profiles. Jab is eh. Side B and neutral B are good tools with niche use that can be quite powerful. Dolphin slash OoS. Okay smash attacks. I wouldn't consider Lucina's ground game to be oppressive more than excellent at defense.

Give him the same specs are Sm4sh but keep the no freefall after side B and still cancel Neutral B

At Least for me, that would fix everything.

real talk, why would anyone use mac when they could just use Lucina?

isn't this sign enough that Little Mac either needs a complete rework, or a buff?

Yeah Lucina has good tools in her ground kit, but what I'm saying is saying she's "just LIttle Mac except she also has air game" is being stupidly dishonest, she has nowhere near as good of frame data on the ground she's just a better character because Smash in its competitive format values aerial attacks a lot.

>why would anyone use mac when they could just use Lucina?
What a retarded question.
That's like asking "Why would anyone use Dedede when you could just use Corrin", they're nothing alike

Make him taller

this but unironcially

give him a projectile too

Total redesign. He's not fun to fight against, and he's not good enough to be worth playing other than to be an annoying asshole.

Because they love smash attacks, obviously. Mac needs a complete rework because making him entirely on the premise of super armor is a terrible mechanic. It's like they said, "Hey, he has to be shit in the air" and then tried to find a way to balance that shortcoming. The lack of creativity is telling.

Characters don't have to be good to be annoying as piss to fight against. Nothing beats the annoyance of fighting a campy ass Sonic in 4, though. You either had a character that could deal or you didn't. 100% one sided encounter for a lot of the cast where reactive play was all that could be done.

Some honorable mentions are Melee ICs with wobbling allowed, a campy Brawl Snake (or Olimar), or a hydrant-camping Pacman. Are these unbeatable? No. But they are tedious as fuck to play against.

No they’re fun and ur just a fagget

You are exactly right

Make his aerials not entirely useless.

>He's not fun to fight against
Gimping Lil Mac is 10,000 times more fun than fighting yet another faggot rat

Lets not forget
>frame 1 jab

Rework him and give him some air game, seriously fuck this stupid ass "grounded only in a platforming based game" trope

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Can anyone actually give me tips on how to fuck up little mac players? I will straight up admit that I'm shit at smash.
I like playing Captain Falcon, Marth, and Peach.

Grab and throw him to the nearest ledge
Get him off the stage and deny his recovery

Kind of like Pichu, Wario and Inkling? Who also have projectiles and top tier recoveries, frame data and a early killing gimmick?

2 words
whiff punish. Just bait and boop. Be cautious and methodical.

Bait out his attacks and whiff punish or go for grabs. Try and force him to the ledge and don't let him stick to the middle of the stage.

every single move in marth's kit will beat mac if you space it, also a lot of mac players online are just incredibly reckless and purely rushdown, just wiff punish or counter, almost all of them have incredibly linear playstyles.

Lol you sound like you get your shit pushed in by Mac players on the regular. Stop running into smash attacks like a retard.

Bunch of salty shitters. You make it sound like Mac is some sort of overpowered top tier. Roy does pretty much everything tha Mac does, only better but you fags eat that shit right up

increase height

The most annoying character to play against in Ultimate is def Dedede for me. Gordos are just infuriating to deal with and most of his attacks are good kill moves.

>t. little mac mains

i bet you like fire emblem.

>maining the worst character in the game
??

cope

with what? i don't play as little mac and i hate fire emblem, so clearly i am the top percent of smashfag.

Cope with what? Mac is shit and that's a good thing lmao.