We will never get a game about Aztec or Mayan pyramids

I think we had this before

Attached: image.png (392x464, 293K)

Enji miracle universe ect

And? Here pictures are eternal I will fap to them until the end of time.

I am more interested in BASED INCAS.

Attached: 80.jpg (1600x700, 453K)

I wish tomb raider could go back to the stylized artstyle from legends or anniversary, I bet it would look great in next gen, with soft light and warm looking skins that look like something out of Pixar, like in overwatch or Kingdom Hearts 3

Attached: Overwatch-D.Va-Guide.jpg (961x720, 106K)

Bullshit, and Belle was born busted.

its interesting but doesnt have interesting weapons like long sword, katana, etc or armors, like plate armors, yoroi etc.

this is one of the important essences that makes a game fun.

I thought that was a centaur..

I was about to make a thread like this
Where is Mesoamericaboo user? I want to know more about Aztec lawyers

Attached: 1500047717624.jpg (699x960, 152K)

Surprised there is no Assassin's Creed for Maya or Aztec yet, lots of climable shit there I bet.

boards.fireden.net/v/search/filename/1513694128302.jpg/type/op/

boards.fireden.net/v/search/filename/1513694128302.jpg/type/op/

If you want to play an ancient mexican-esk game, try Sanitarium

Ubicuck would have their work cut out for them trying to romanticise such an alien culture into politically correct boringness

Nothing in new world deserves any attention, it's all just barbarians chopping each other up

>tfw find Norse mythology genuinely interesting but it's now associated with Varg tier h'wite nationalists
Also I wish Celtic mythology got more attention, it's interesting and also pretty much just as well documented as Nordic mythology

Attached: 1424407478011.png (1270x1135, 133K)

Expeditions coquistador

Attached: Aztec-City.jpg (803x1200, 348K)

Goldpilled

Ass too large

>t. Peruvian

>Celtic mythology
fucking this so much, Celt mythology >>>>>>>>>>>Nordcuckshit. It's a million times more interesting and developed than 'muh semen slurping WODEN.'

Attached: Nordcucks.jpg (1034x732, 428K)

I think they could make it work if the game takes place during the conquest of New Spain. It is likely to make beaners assmad because it will show their shitty culture in decline with Spaniard conquering their nation/women. However, it would make for a far more interesting game with more variety in both weapons and armor than simply going full Mexica/Aztec/Maya. Unless they take a hyper fantasy route that diverges from what we know about their culture and lore.

The troll areas in WoW are based off of Mayans and what not

>I wish tomb raider could go back to the stylized artstyle from legends or anniversary, I bet it would look great in next gen, with soft light and warm looking skins that look like something out of Pixar, like in overwatch or Kingdom Hearts 3
This
Also fuck reboot and nuLara. Bring back the real deal and modernize that.

haha cum guzzler

I am Russian

Attached: neko_fem_russia___rawr__by_anka2k_dcwn13j.jpg (1992x3188, 1.43M)

will Yea Forums still be available to you when RUnet is fully deployed?

Fuck Aztecs

>there will never be a game where you're a Mixtec tribe trying to fight off Aztec invaders
>or any other tribe trying to fight off the Aztec

I wish so

Attached: 408993_original.jpg (960x730, 64K)

i had high hopes for the new tomb raider because i love aztec/mayan stuff in video games.
i was pretty disappointed, did not even finish it.
i really enjoyed the last one, just moving around and exploring was fun, but not that one.

Would be pretty good from FromSoftware, I'm envisioning lots of skulls, corpses (human sacrifices, maybe you rip out their hearts as a humanity replacement), and blood.

both are disgusting attention whores

They had no means to write down their history so it was lost
Ubi Soft likes "realism" history mixed with modern day washing for diversity. Which is perfectly fine snice I liked being Xena in Ass Creed

Problem is, they have no historical stuff to really go on. There's a specific reason the meso-Americans are a mish mash of cultures in fiction because guess what, the shit they did keep isn't intersting, at all

Moar?

Why would anyone want a game about naked corn farmers killing themselves?

It's fine when strategy games do it though.

I'm gonna get banned for posting this but I don't care, not sharing this is a crime>Enji is like 38 years old
this just makes it better

What’s the difference you both only pirate or f2p and love dota

Serious Sam has them in the first two games. The first encounter is basically all pyramids.

Attached: serious_sam_hd.jpg (1280x720, 199K)

I was trying to sleep but as usual this fucking asshat who keeps spamming these threads posted it right as I was about to head off.

It's amazing how 99% of the time people bitch it's obvious they have no idea what they are talking about

>its interesting but doesnt have interesting weapons like long sword, katana, etc or armors, like plate armors, yoroi etc.
There's plenty of weapon and armor variety, it's just that, as is the case with litterally every element of Mesoamerican culture, most depictions only show off specific shit and even then trhey bastarfize it.

Even just speaking for the Aztec in particular, you obviously have swords in Macuahuitl, of varying lengths and sizes, as well as standard spears, but also analogs to halbreds (in the tepoztopilli, which was a polearm designed more around slashing then thrusting) and glaives (in versions oif macuahuitl with a full pole length handle). You had a variety of clubs and maces, uncluding Moari-esque short batons with sharpened edges, more traditional clubs as opposed to macuahuitls, sometimes with stone flanges; maces with spherical heads, and morning star like weapons. For projectile weapons, there are bows, atlatl, and slings. if you include stuff that COULD be weapons but weren't exactly used as such, you also have axes, blowguns, and knives, too.

There's plenty of outfits as well. You obviously have breechcloths, but also a huge variety of mantles with varying patterns and worn in different ways a la greco-roman togas; a variety of tunics, women had blouses, tunics, huipils, and trigular poncho like garment too. Again, tons of patterns to use. You had more decked out outfits with tons of jewlerly, headdresses, and ornaments. In terms of armor; on top of just wearing the above, you had vests, tunics, pants, and suits of a sort of gambeson, and additional layers of armor worn by elites or royalty

1/?

Attached: Attire from the Aztec and other Nahua, Central Mexican groups. EVEN MORE DOWNSCALED AND COMPRESSED.j (3443x2256, 3.14M)

>he didn't play Medieval II Kingdoms
Absolutely barbaric

cont:

> and additional layers of armor worn by elites or royalty

These were either full body suits with a thick cotton base, and thousands of feathers woven into them, which formed patterns and insignia out of the different colpored feathers forming a mosiac, often paired with wooden helmets also in feathers. Together, these would usually represent animals, such as jaguars, coyotes, eagles, crocodiles, parrots, etc; but also mythjological creatures such as the futa skeletal demons with rattlesnakes for pensises that woule eat the sun; and some non-creature based designs as well.

The second type was similar, but was more exclusively used by royalty, and was a tunic rather then a full body suit, and with a skirt of feathers or leather strips, often paired wirh golden armbands and legbands and more elaborate helmets. The feathers on both of these were actually protective, with the overlapping spinces stopping and glancing blows off, on top of the thickness of the cotton base over the underlying gambeson. Shields were also used, as were back mounted banners/standards

The image I posted in shows much of this. And this is, mind you, just the Aztec: Other civilizations also tended to sue these, but had their own unique shit as well on top of this. so no, variety is not a problem. There's a whole seperate image of shit for the Maya rfrom that for example I have, as seen in pic related; and then there's Mixtec, Zapotec, Olmec, Totonacs, Huastecs, Otomi, Purepecha, Teotihauacano, Colmia, etc

>Mixtec
>tribe

They were organized into city-states like almost every mesoamerican culture. There was also a large Mixtec empire that nearly unified every one of those city-states in the early-postclassic due to the conquests of a specific noble named 8-Deer-Jaguar-Claw going on a conquering spree after getting the blessings from the Toltec ruler of Cholula, whith Cholula sort of being a Mesoamerican mecca

2/?

Attached: maya and toltec attire.jpg (3264x2448, 1.47M)

That's great.
Now, tell me how they functioned as a society right down written accurate accounts

Or we can go by "I uh, I found a kinda like a um, a s-sword on this um dig"

You can go with the average student's opinion but ultimately, there is no written records, no history, nothing. Other than bits and pieces of what might have been objects.

It's the same shit as Vikings constantly wearing horned helms because this one time someone found one and wrote a fucking paper about how they all wore them

>posts a book with pictures drawn up in the modern day
>t-this is um t-this is accurate even though our only proof is guesswork

Yeah, I'm done entertaining your trolling

I'll get to you, typing up replies takes a long time

>Oxford University is older than the Aztec Empire

I'd rather a game set in Oxford, uncovering a super secret cult conducting arcane rituals in secret in super secret areas in super duper secret., of extreme turbo darkness.

Attached: Occult stuff (4).jpg (540x675, 151K)

We don't deserve her

Attached: oof.jpg (623x1020, 211K)

rummo

cont:

>They had no means to write down their history so it was lost

Literally every major Mesoamerican civilization had a writing system and books,There's around a dozen left today, see pic The Spanish burned the rest,but there's still a LOT we have recorded and know about the Aztec in particular thanks to both Conquistador accounts, Aztec chroniclers/scribes and Spanish friars re-recording information during the early colional period

It's a shadow of the near China/roman tier records we could have had, but as a result we still have hundreds of aztec-language sources and many times more spanish sources detailing their history, society, cultural practices, etc. Sahagun's A History of the Indies of New Spain is like 2000+ pages alone purely going in depth on Aztec history, govermental system, daily life. medicine, craftwork/art, religion, class systems, econmics, etc. There's enough that there's entire books written about specific Aztec indivuals, such as "The Allure of Nezahualcoyotl" or "Tlaclelel remebered"

There's a lot of Old World civilizations we know less about then the Aztec. There's pretty decent documentation on at least the political history of the classical maya too thanks to a bunch of surviving inscriptions detailing the history of key events in the histories of a bunch of cities that survived even if most of the books didn't: We can trace the specific political histories and their construction projects, wars, ascensions, alliances, etc, same for the mixtec, though due to surviving books rather then inscriptions Other civilizations such as the Zapotec, Purepecha, etc fare less well, but there's still 1-2 aztec style colional records for them each and we have archeological data, and info ahbout them from aztec and maya sources.

The reason nobody talks about this shit is that most of it only started to get studied seriously in the past century and most still don't have english translations

3/?

Attached: codex.jpg (603x291, 57K)

what about shadowrun cyberpunk aztechnology?

Is Aztec history worth learning? Or is just ancient murder beaners?

there already is an aztec/mayan video game

youtube.com/watch?v=1GTQp0wyRls

proof? someone post new pics of enji

if you have gold jewelry you have also copper tools and weapons

>muh aztecs didn't have metal knowledge
>spaniards didn't melt down any copper tools or weapons they found

cont:

Also before you say anything, The Maya script was a complete, phonetically based, true written language with a complete syllabary, and was a syallbic, not a pictographic or a logogrammic script, though there were also a set of logogram characters that worked like traditional hierogrlphs; youtube.com/watch?v=lgsQndSyfHg explains it well

The Zapotec and Epi-olmec scripts were similarly heavily phonetically based, even if they didn't have a complete syllabrary, and even the "pictographic" ones like Aztec, Teotihuacano, etc still had at least some phonetic and syllabic elements, rebuses, etc

That trivia is a bit misleading: it doesn't really mean anything any more then "Oxford is older then the US": The whole fact being interesting preys on the idea/people's ignorance and assumption that the Aztec were the first Mesoamerican civilization, when in reality they were among the most recent Mesoamerican civ, with civilization being over 2000 years old there by that point. Pic related for example shows a short summary of the timeline of Mesoamerican history, and emphasis on short: The othjer anons I was just replying to seem to think we know nothing about any of these groups, but there have been multiple entire books written about specific wars talked about in the image, hundreds about specific civilizations, etc.

Example of a misleading fact from the other way around: the Maya city of El Mirador, at it's height, was multiplle times the size of Rome in population at the same time, but that's misleading because El Mirador peakeds at 300BC, so when Rome was still the Roman republic, relatively early into it's history (El Mirador is still impressive though: A population of 120,000, and, depending on how you define where the structure starts and ends, had the tallest human structure built before 1000 AD, with it's La Danta complex being taller then the Giza pyramid)

4/?

Attached: mesoamerican history summary.png (1457x1520, 346K)

wrong. melting every trace of copper is completely unfeasible and unrealistic, stop your conspiracy theory bullshit. aztecs were just low IQ

>There's plenty of weapon and armor variety,
well, i personally take your side, id like to play a cool aztec game, but objectively speaking, it looks like there are not so many weapons, as far as these pages go.
seems like they mained spears, as i thought. and billhook ish swords. both are however hard to use as a main weapon and not so "fun".

this is a bit off topic but sengoku japan has a bunch of weapons from katana to tanegashima rifle, normal ones like spears, arches, axes, etc, and, all those weird ninja shits like syuriken, kunai, makibishi, kusarigama etc, and still it couldnt be popular in the west. you might think its popular and oversaturated now, but seriously, this sengoku hype has just started this year lol, thanks to nioh and sekiro, and probably ghost of tsushima. ive played a bunch of japanese games but they were always niche.

western audience is pretty conservative about non western historic games. it took japan 20yrs or so until it got popularity, aside from anime like samurai champloo, naruto, shogun out of the famous series total war, and old school ninja games. you should give it time too.

>aztec/mayan/olmec religion and philosphy believes in voluntary beliefs of whatever basically
>basis is nihilistic in nature
>army is a volunteer force recruited from citizens who joined up for honor and glory of combat
>nihilistic beliefs go so far as to question the meaning of death as well as life
>symbolism like being a "tiger" warrior means you possess the traits of one
>belief system becomes so esoteric that warriors embody "death" in the sense that they accept and enjoy all aspects of dying/becoming a lifeless corpse and that losing in combat is not something to be feared
>pain becomes meaningless or enjoyed
>combat becomes fun
>warriors decide to prove themself beyond killing their enemy and instead capturing them for sport

>become mesoamerican version of space marines

youtu.be/S2o-LmI3kiE

oh right, i meant bronze

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlaximaltepoztli

cont:

absolutely, see the stuff i'm posting and the image in . I also direct to a bunch of resources to learning more here . Aztec history, rather then Mesoamerican history in particular is fascating because of all of the realpolttik shit they and other cities would pull, due to the unique elements of mesoamerican politcs, which worked fundamentally differently then in eurasia due to the logistical constraints of no beasts of burden. I talk about this a bit here boards.fireden.net/v/thread/461820979/#461882096, read this posts and the next 7 ones in that series; and I guess the stuff earlier in the thread about how they economnically exploitated conquered states with tributary burdens and baiting them into attacking merchants to have a justification for war, etc.

The idea that Mesoamericans smelted copper isn't some fringe theory, there's plenty of surviving copper jewelry and ceremonial objects. Some Bronze ones, too, actually. The thing to keep in mind is that metal wasn';t fundamentally viewed as a useful ulitarian material. It seems weird, but you need to remember that the region has a fuck ton of obsidian lying around which is way sharper then a metal edge can ever get. Yes, it's less durable, but when even the conquistadorrs threw away their metal armor due to the climate, it's not like the Mesoamericans themselves were gonna be making and using metal armor, so they didn';t really have a reason to give a shit about the lower durability since there was no metal armor for it to shatter against.

See pic. I said in that there were "axes" but weren't exactly used for weapons, which is seen here: these look like bronze and copper axeheads for war-axes, but were actually ceremonial objects. Before metalluregy became a thing in the region they made the same items out of jade. The super thin ones you see here are actually a form of currency called axe monies, too.

5/?

Attached: Set_of_Mesoamerican_bronze_axes.jpg (2047x1548, 513K)

belle is british, therefore she is inbred and will age badly

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_warfare#Warrior_societies
>realize basic aztec soldier was on level of the average us marine
>basic aztec soldiers numbered in the millions

>jaguar warriors were on the level of your average navy seal
>jaguar warriors numbered in the million

>their best eagle warriors were the equivilent of delta warriors
>numbered at least 200,000
>the U.S. only have 1,000

>during the flower wars a couple hundred thousand eagle and jaguar warriors were facing tribes of several million and and killing and capturing enemy soldiers with few if any casualties

>300 literally happened, and it happened in mesoamerica
>aztec spartans weren't losing until the spanish showed up

youtu.be/HdNn5TZu6R8

Fun fact, hispanics have the most Medal of Honor awards of any race.

GIWTWM

Meso-american culture and history always feels really uncanny to me as an European, it's so far removed from anything familiar that I outright dismiss it and don't want to hear about it.

I'm sorry. Apocalypto was kino though.

aztec/mayan/olmec is basically roman+egyptian+spartan+jungle

Serious Sam

Hello Enji.

Attached: enji4chan.jpg (1016x748, 118K)

How about a conqistador going through south and central america and killing all the gods?

Thread theme:
youtube.com/watch?v=Kw4H60vLFRw

Attached: Atlantis_II.jpg (275x362, 20K)

>aztec/mayan/olmec philosophy says there is no absolute truth, questioning and requestioning is the closest we can get

>goes on wars capturing and killing enemies for the sake of proving themself in combat

>end up almost completely dominating the entire mesoamerican region

>I wanted an Aztec game from FromSoftware
>from from

Stuttering retard

>aztec philosophy and religion believes all spirituality is a personal subject and that all actions should be voluntary or you upset the concept of balance which works sort of like karma

>also dictates that in order to be free from personal bias all questioning of actions or morals or whatever should start from a neutral 0

>slavery in aztec society was similar to the romans in which conquered people would work off their war debt and could eventually buy their freedom

>neighboring tribes in the yucatan were notorious slavers and actual cannibals

>spaniards came to the new world with the purpose of finding actual slaves to work on plantations and maybe find gold

>aztecs had been fighting off neighboring tribes that were on the coast who had been harassing them and they decided enough was enough and went on a purging cleanse

>spaniards land on the coast and ally with the other tribes because they both wanted slaves

>people believe their descriptions of aztec history

cont:

>has a bunch of weapons from katana to tanegashima rifle, normal ones like spears, arches, axes, etc, and, all those weird ninja shits like syuriken, kunai, makibishi, kusarigama etc

Sure, but look at european warfare: Generally speaking, everything was a sword, some polearm varient, or some sort of blunt mace/war axe, and a bow or crossbow: Mesoamerica really don't have less variety then that, with plenty of varients of each that we knpow of, and then potential hypothetical variations that could have slightly different stats

I think there's more then enough provided that the game you are making doesn't inherently require more then 4-5 core weapon types and subvarients for each: Something like a Fromsoft/souls title would probably need Spanish weapons on top of Mesoamerican ones simply due to how there needs to be 10-15 totally mechanically unique weapons, but something like, say god of war or chilvary could get by just on native ones

It's really not fundamentally that different from other complex societies: The average Aztec person,in the captial for example, woke up, made a small offerings to the gods, brought their kid to a local municipial school (see pic) worked the farms for a few hours, maybe roamed around the markets for a while, bought some goods, then spent the evening playing board games, etc

The problem is that most people only ever get exposted to the most alien and unorthdox elements of it (the sacrifice) and even THAT makes sense in the context of the overall moral/ethical framework and cosmological system they had, which is something I talk about in the following

- desuarchive.org/his/thread/6484166/#6498156 , as well as 6498166, 6498177, and 6498225 in that thread
- boards.fireden.net/v/thread/460067902/#460076272 as well as 460091360 , 460091863, 460092384, 460092825, 460092825 and 460093384 in that thread
- all 20 of my posts in desuarchive.org/his/thread/5495687/

6/?

Attached: An Aztec father delivers his son to a Calmécac élite school in Tenochtitlan, Florentine Codex.jpg (572x600, 131K)

Based mesoamericaboo user BTFO all these dumbass westerners in the thread
>but muh weapons
Get fucked you dumb weaponfag

OH NO NO NO

Attached: purepecha aztec wojak pepe.png (558x321, 73K)

>Its all about Norse mythology
>Never go further down the ocean of Myth than getting the boots wet
>As a result games like Dark Souls stand out, where they just go ankle deep

Attached: this_is_why_we_can't_have_nice_thing.jpg (555x448, 38K)

what?

Who is this semen demon?

LMAO

dsdsf

Enji Night

what is the point of these retarded girls looking with crossed eyes and tongue out of their mouth? its annoyingt he fuck out of me

Enji

Attached: Enji.webm (858x720, 1.79M)

It's called "ahegao" and it's popular in Japanese porno comics.

More like Enji $20 per Night, LMAO

Just post more asses, jesus fucking christ, is that too much to ask for.

i still dont get it?

post the one without make-up

this

the mayan stage in banjo tooie was kino

Attached: 1558196545860.jpg (720x720, 50K)

Attached: ok.webm (640x1136, 1.05M)

Breh she looks like a 14 year old boy

Attached: 1556919124491.jpg (656x432, 62K)

That’s because it’s not her

I thought that was a fucking jaguar centaur from the thumbnail

what's with all the Aztec threads?

One user spamming the same OP. The Mesoamericaboo is a guy from /his/ that apparently also browses Yea Forums

It is.

cont:

I fucking assure you i'm not spamming the threads, as I said in it's a huge pain in my ass because like every day for the past week i've seen him make them right as i'm about to go to bed and then I end up staying up replying to everybody., I'm on like 5 hours of sleep across the past 3 days and it fucking sucks.

I'd also never just say "Aztec and Maya", I'd say Mesoamerican.

Mesoamericans, Aztec particularly has just as much if not more stuff going for it then Ancient Egypt.

To begin with, city sizes: The Aztec captial of Tenochtitlan held 200,000 to 250,000 people, the largest city in the bronze age fertile crescent, Uruk, only had a population of 40,000. Even compared to late medivial european cities at the same time the spanish arrived, such as Paris and Constatople, Tenochtitlan had comparable populations while also being much larger in spatial extent.Tenochtitlan was, admittedlly, somewhat of an outlier, but there were plenty of other very large mesoamerican cities: Teotihuacan hit 150k and actually was larger then rome in physical expanse, a number of others hit 40k to 80k, etc; though aside from Teno. and Teoti, though urban design norms of mesoamerican cities difrfered a lot from eurasian ones, so depending on where you say a city started or ended they could be smaller or way, way bigger.

In terms of the buildings, structures, etc; aztec archtecture i'd say is about on par with what you see in Bronze Age Mesopotamia and egypt. In fact, in another thread, I previously noted the visual simularity in these posts , , and , I can post more examples as well. Very similar building shapes and styles, as well as archtectural/art motifs on the buildings themselves. Maybe due to a similar climate and rough engineeering ability?

7/?

Attached: mesoamerican city sizes.jpg (1585x4078, 1.88M)

I want a Mexica wife

Attached: 1506995353295.jpg (1366x2189, 742K)

>I fucking assure you i'm not spamming the threads
Not you. The OP is the same guy who makes threads with the same image.

IT'S TOUGH TO BE A STRAIGHT WHITE MALE

Attached: road to el dorado.jpg (1280x720, 106K)

>non-white
Yeah... nah.

Mesoamerican stonework gives me rock hard boners

It's fucking beautiful man

Attached: 041C-Image Peruvian Stonework.jpg (1198x1042, 1.32M)

hot

cute

Tilefag? Is that you?

cont:

>Maybe due to a similar climate and rough engineeering ability?

The one area they definetely were better at then in ancient egypt was with waterworks and hydroengineeerting. I've talked about this a lot before, but complex, interconnected canal, aquaduct, dike, resvoir, and even plumbing systems are fairly common in Mesoamerican cities; running water, toilets, seqage systems, and pressureized fountains aren't even unheard of. The Aztec captial in particular was LITTERALLY made of a series of artificial islands with a grid of canals like venice (see pic) running through the city, which also had a complex flood control system, a dual piped aquaduct which could switch water between the sides so a given side could be cleaned, etc. The watering systems fore the imperial gardens at the city of texcoco were particularly impressive, which collected water from a mountain range tens of miles away, brought it to a series of channels and pools at a hill to regulate the flow speed, wherethe water then crossed in an aquaduct over a huge gorge to the a second hill,and the aquaduct formed a circuit around said hill and dropped water off as waterfalls at key points, which then watered the plants in the imperial gardens below.

Also while not really in regards to their technology or complexity, climate wise Mesoamerica offers a lot more then Egypt. Obviously Egypt isn't just deserts, it's got fertile flood plains, tropical coasts etc; but Mexico has not only the tropical coasts and flodplains in swampland, but also jungles, deserts, temperate to semi-arid valleys and plains, colder mountains, etc. There's a hjuge amount of climatic variation, though the one common thread is that access to freshwater is usually pretty iffy, hense the development of complexs water systems.

also gonna suggest this video for you, which talks about the daily life of aztec kids growing up youtube.com/watch?v=wsNdYD8DODo

8/?

Attached: Teopan canal in Tenochtitlan (Aztec Captial), Scott and Stuart Gentling.png (1576x1133, 2.65M)

*jobs*

Attached: Kotal_Kahn_(MKX).png (1024x1024, 829K)

I'm afraid I'm not tilefag, though that deviant is always in my heart.

Is this loss?