WoW Classic is successful

>Flying mounts
Terrible, ruined the zones
>Arenas
Terrible, ruined pvp
>The rest
All good things, and classes weren't simplified

OP gets it, blood elves ruined the horde by filling it with alliance kiddies

TBC made a lot of classes a lot less complex. Hunter comes to mind immediately, as does Shaman.

>classes weren't simplified
They were simplified. Hunters no longer had to manage their shot timings, which took them from the most complicated PVE class to the least.

At least they made hunters and shamans good classes finally. Raptor strikes for 3k in TK/SSC gear and shamans in hyjal/sunwell gear basically zeroed you faster than any class.

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BUT BLIZZARD SAID WE NEEDED MORE HORDE TOO MANY ALLIANCE

Fuck you 2006-7 Blizzard you guys should've been patient and let the community settle. But you got greedy you cunts

redpill me on blood elves, why does everyone hate them

Hunters were fine in Vanilla and only started dropping off in late AQ / Naxx. TBC casualized them and made them braindead in raids.

It was hated during BC because it was played by the normies and used to bring a lot of kids in the horde. Also most of the horde community changed and now the horde is full of belf. It's kinda sad at this point where you connect in Orgri and you see a majority of Blood elves

TBC did not remove autoshot. Neither did Wrath.
Autoshot isn't even an example of complexity, it's literally no different from casting a spell except it's automatic. You're fucking retarded, like all other nostalgiafags.

Can't wait to pay blizzard for turning my characters into Blood Elves. Fuck you haters.

I never played one past 29. I liked to twink that bracket but never felt like leveling one haha.

I have to say it was satisfying to perfectly know your shot timer and being able to kite in synch, nowadays I'd just consider it a headache.

TBC removed the need to manage the autoshot timer. Abilities no longer reset the timer in TBC. You are a casual zoomer who has no idea what he is talking about.

>Autoshot
It's the autoshot reset timer you dumb brainlet, and yes TBC removed the mechanic. In Vanilla hunters had to play with an autoshot timer mod at all times because your abilities ate your autoshot.

Normalfag bait in an effort to balance server populations and subsequently doing long-term damage to the feel of the Horde by having pretty elves running around everywhere, mostly played by alliance kiddies
TBC did a lot of long-term damage

Because they don't get sex. Blood Elves are the best players in the game.

>blizzard announces the opening of the dark portal in classic wow
>everyone expect to go to outlands again
>armies of players waiting in the blasted lands
>portal opens, but it leads to future version of Outlands
>turns out classic wow is actually a parallel timeline and part of the current canon

Based retard

Complexity isn't good if it is due to the class being a gimped mess that can't compete even when you are doing everything right.

makes a lot of sense, ive been playing private server vanilla for a month now and i can't imagine having pretty elves being the majority of people hanging out in fucking orgrimmar.

TBC undoubtedly has better class/spec balance than Vanilla. It just continued vertical progression where 61-63 green gear was on par with tons of epics from 60, not Naxx gear but plenty of MC stuff. Flying mounts did more harm than good, and Shatt and "LMAO PORTALS TO EVERYWHERE" ruined the game far more than flying mounts. One hearth to rule them all

I liked Outland's zones and heroic dungeons were a good addition. Badges were good for casuals but they still would need to go into Kara or Mags to progress to Gruul or SSC/TK.

unironically would be a great idea

Elves suck

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Answer this you stupid faggots

What happens if a TBC hunter begins casting Aimed Shot or Steady Shot BEFORE their autoshot is about to fire?

The answer is you don't auto shoot. You lose damage. This is the exact mechanic you are complaining not existing, yet it does. You are fucking stupid.

>Complexity isn't good
Wrong. But TBC agreed with you, and simplified classes.

Hunter was not gimped in Vanilla and did excellently through BWL when you properly managed your autoshot. Too bad TBC made the class braindead and casual

Guys I am playing beta and there is spirit on my plate armor. Why is this?

CHILDREN and ALLIANCE FAGS come and ruin the edgy chillness of the Horde it's been 12 years and I remember fuck you Belfs

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Daily reminder that the ONLY REASON Blood elves are part of the horde/Exist as a race is because chinese faggots couldnt stand playing a "ugly" race on horde side, so blizz caved in and made a pretty race. Fuck chinese women
reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/9fb2bo/john_staats_ama_author_of_the_world_of_warcraft/e5v3p5t/?context=3

have they announced any kind of release schedule for classic?

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The class was always brain dead, just because you tried to sperg to make it viable didn't end up mattering when no one decided to invite you for the actual hard raids anyway.

>chinese
it was korean

>steady shot
Didn't exist in Vanilla. It was added and made autoshot timing basically obsolete. It also made the hunter rotation braindead

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Autoshot would wait for steady shot, it wouldn't reset.

I am having trouble with my freeze mage rotation. What spells should I use?

Google it lazy ass

the blue ones

blood elf females are based and redpilled

anyone who hates on blood elf females is a fucking homo

Care to explain how Autoshot -> Steady Shot is brain dead but Autoshot -> Different Ability isn't?

worgen wives

Fuck stacy elves

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Paladins exist

Go back to facebook faggot

use frostbolt
then use frostbolt
then mix it up with a frostbolt
then frostbolt
then toss in a frostbolt
and if you have to frostbolt again

new wow casual
old wow complex

new thread when
youtube.com/watch?v=x7yrB4NYc-g

Worgen are for human men

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never

fond, headache...

anons, please teach me how to vanilla hunter. perhaps a video, or a quick rundown on how to manage the autoshot.

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thoughts on if they go the OSRS route and release entirely new content for classic?

They should look into it years down the road

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The amount of butthurt that the blood elves has caused is astounding. Pure comedy gold when these threads are made. You can clearly visualize the classicfags impotent rage.

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I want Fiona to ravage me in her carriage

She's a prostitute

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butthurt is mainly from alliance that wanted them. not only did they lose out on an elf race they want, but it also made the opposite faction more popular. what a kick to the nuts.

I only hate blood elves because their racials seem to always be some bullshit.
>BfA racial let them dispel BoP
Fuck them

>Why do people think TBC was good again?
Because I killed Illidan. Because I played shaman without playing shit horde cucks. Because I conquered Sunwell. Because I kicked Archie ass.

TBC sucks a fat dick overall, but I wouldn't mind being able to play as an opulent chicken-riding magical fentanyl-snorting knife-eared slut again.

It's the same as playing a caster. Don't cast a new ability in the middle of your invisible (without addons) auto-shot cast.
This technique can also be used for melee swings as a hunter and even as a dps warrior.
So basically you press a button once every second instead of as soon as possible

>waiting for a cast bar to finish is hardcore gameplay to a private server shitter

>flying mounts
>daily quests
>welfare epics
>arenas
>resilience
>invalidating older content in the same expansion with every big patch
>everyone 58+ literally on another world away from the rest of the game
>shared hub city
>portals to everything
>horde pallies and alliance shams
TBC was not good

oh, sounds easy enough. thought there was more fo it.

>Playing vanilla as a teenage shitter
>Am an enhancement shaman
>Get some easy epics from world events
>Get an epic chest from BRD
>By the time I reach 60 half my gear is level 50+ epics
but muh badges of justice

>invalidating older content in the same expansion with every big patch
and yet BiS items dropped from tier 4 and tier 5 raids the entire expansion and even vanilla items were still BiS in some cases

a lot of that other stuff is shitty though

Sums it up but you forgot hallway dungeons and cross faction rep mounts also a shared hub city isnt THAT bad its a neat concept but it should have been treated more like booty bay

Vulpera should have been Alliance

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Why do people think Vanilla was good?

Because I like one for being in Vanilla and hate the other for being in TBC and destroying everything I loved about WoW.

>vulpera
It's gonna be gilgoblins, sorry furshitter.

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>bloodelves have cool lore
>have cool starting zone
>have cool city
>Played by the worst kind of people
>attact tons of these people to the point where they outnumber the rest of the faction
>male blood elves look nothing like they do in concept art and are pretty much just slightly edgy humans barely taller than the females

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I liked the resource management and social aspects

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I love how you left out the rest of the post because you couldn't counter it.

>you mean the things most casuals couldn't afford and were only useful for farming quicker/end-game daily areas?
Every single person had a flying mount when they got lvl 70 and no one ever used ground mounts after that because even the 60% speed version was faster than an epic ground mount since you skipped mobs and went in a straight line.

I don't know about other classes but shamans became way more easier. Also, how is a shared capital where you can't fight at all a good thing?

>gilgoblins
How lazy are blizard that they have to reskin goblins to be fishy instead of making something new

based and futa pilled

No you got it wrong at mixing up with frostbolt, you gotta use frost bolt

faggots ahahaha

i bet you play troll female cause they are "unique"

go suck a faggot cock NIGGER ahaha

The whole point of the allied races is that it is easy reskins with low effort. It also serves to spice things up without adding new stuff that disrupts shit like furfaggotry vulperas.

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>this one spot where you can't fight the opposite faction in two entire worlds where you can just absolutely destroys everything in my life, I have no reason to exist no longer

Mechagnomes are much more offensive for existing

Vulpera are Goblin reskins.

Not really. They're just the next step for their engineering madness. It fits the book.

Everyone serious had flying mounts and it completely ruined PvP.

Gilgoblins have been mobs for a while now

Nice strawman, still doesn't answer the question.

>Terrible, ruined pvp
Sub 2000 shitter detected

Yeah but they are ugly as sin + nobody wants to play fucking vulperas and Goblin models are getting reworked atm as well, which heavily indicates that gilgoblins would get the same treatment for little effort. Basically it would be two flies with one swat.

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Not even every serious, just everyone. You literally got enough gold to buy it just by leveling and vendoring your quest rewards. You didn't even have to use the AH to get the gold for standard flying.

after their inclusion they became like 70% of the horde playerbase. it was a marketing move to make the horde more attractive, literally and figuratively, to people who didn't like the ugly horde races in attempts to balance the faction populations since the alliance almost always had more players than horde on every server. they also make very little sense thematically to be on that faction, especially since the only lore reason given for their inclusion was their ties to the forsaken, which were already a massive stretch to put on the horde in the first place. and on top of all that, they're consistently played by the faggiest, whiniest, and most annoying of players. they attracted the worst of the worst to the horde.

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wpvpcaka "ganking at 25% hp" happened at farm spots

So were goblins in the past, until something more lucrative showed up.

>they're consistently played by the faggiest, whiniest, and most annoying of players.
As opposed to the people that keep crying bitch tears about blood elves this, blood elves that?

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ELF BAD

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Do WotLK and OSRS servers.

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Their lore got fucked in BC, just like the lore for everything else. If they made them the actual Punished Elves that they were meant to be at the end of Frozen Throne, then they would have attracted a less awful playerbase.

Ok that was epic
youtube.com/watch?v=OjwMgqvriu0

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Still can't put them with the alliance, since they fucked the elves hard in the ass during the end of the third war.

They just don't fit thematically in the Horde. They should've given BE to Alliance and given Draenei to horde, and not the faggot Draenei we got now but the WC3 version (like Akuma in TBC). They made a lot more sense thematically. And on the plus side it just makes more sense for BE to join the alliance. Draenei make no sense with the horde I'll give you that.

>they're consistently played by the faggiest, whiniest, and most annoying of players
Meanwhile:
>BAWWWWWWWWWWW ELVES RUINED MY FACTION IT WAS UNIQUE! I WAS UNIQUE! TOO MANY NORMIES PLAYING NOW IT'S RUINED! RUINED! RUINED!
-endlessly, this entire time, long after most people have stopped giving a shit

look in a fucking mirror sometime lmao, 15 years and you faggots haven't matured a bit

They didn't fuck the Elves. Arthas fucked them, then a single dude was mean to them. It's a lot better than them joining the Horde they've fought in 2 different wars in the past.

Says the one crying about not being able to wage faction wars in a single spot on two maps.

It's hilarious watching you people shit yourselves into a frenzied rage over some fox people when shit like Tauren, Furbolgs, Quillboars, Nagas, Murlocs, and other beat people have been in the game since the RTS trilogy.

>the horde is all ugly outcasts
>so we need to discriminate based on appearance on who's joining

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Look out, everyone, we have a person who's a master of deciding what is and isn't thematic in a video game he doesn't do anything with except cry about.

Blood Elves > High Elves

That being said, they should not be in the Horde. They should either be in the Alliance OR in a seperate third Elven faction of their own (which we all know that Blizzard is not going to ever do).

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They got zero fucking help and the alliance let a psycho use them as cannon fodder. I wouldn't trust them at all after that as well. Plus the UD actually helped them clean up the mess that was the ghostlands, while the alliance did fuckall.

did you play horde in TBC? i don't think you understand just how many underaged dweebs with anime nicknames there were running around playing blood elves. and the problem only got worse when they added death knights in wotlk. pic related is not a fucking joke. these people were absolutely everywhere. that's not even mentioning the fact that due to female night elves being the de facto G.I.R.L. ERP race, that shit was mostly quarantined to the alliance, but blood elves brought that cancerous bullshit over to the horde as well.

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>It's hilarious watching you people shit yourselves into a frenzied rage over some fox people
Dude, I'm just here for the anal ragnarok of the furries when I redpill them about Blizzard and their methods. Relax and enjoy the show - and if you are a furshitter, may god have mercy on your soul.

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I'm not the same dude that sperged, this was my first post on the BE topic. But you got to agree that just on a visual thematic sense, they make stick out like a sore thumb.

Illidari should have been a third faction. Naga, Blood Elves, Draenei. Their appeal could be that they're neutral to both or something. Make their capital be the "neutral hub" but still give them the chance to kill people out in the world if they want.

No, here's this redditjak edit to prove you wrong.

>Throm'ka, friend! I'm not like the other Blood Elves, I'm as tough as any orc!
>Ayy, mon! Welcome to the Bloodtusk Clan! Don't let my appearance fool "ya", I can do the voodoo as well as any troll!
>Blood Elf? Haha, no. I'm a Dark Ranger. For the Dark Lady!
>Hail, traveler. Welcome to the Featherhoof Tribe, our traditional Tauren storytelling will begin soon, take a seat by the fire. I may be a Blood Elf, but I hear the call of the Earthmother as well as any Tauren.
>Welcome to the Scarletfeather Cartel! I'm Trade Princess Elfyra Sunblossom. I may be a Blood Elf, but I can wheel and deal as well as any goblin!
>Slow down, friend! Here at the Jademist Brewery we take Pandaren teachings to heart. Though I am a Blood Elf, I was trained in the way of the monk by the wisest Pandaren teachers! Family, food, and friends!

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Blood Elves and high elves are literally the same race.

That's a cool character, not gonna lie. I'd do that too just for the lulz. Sephiroth is my favourite FF villain as well.

blood elf pussy was made for tauren cock.

When Arthas attacked the humans were literally on the other side of the world or being decimated by him. Won't argue too much with Garithos but 1 dumb commander treating you like shit when everyone is literally fighting for the survival of life shouldn't erase hundreds of years of being allies.

>116 replies
>44 poster
My dear shills. This "game" is going to bomb. Maybe if y'all would of spent more on development instead of viral marketing, you wouldn't have to do all this shameless circle jerking. Need three threads open for classic at all times, same image and captions even. Really. It's just sad.

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this is true, but don't tell the alliance players that. they get absolutely furious every time they remember they can't complete their perfect set of Tolkien fantasy races without their pretty blonde elves.

>troll cock
fixed

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Not exactly. A lot of magical mambo-jambo happened during the Sunwell.
And they certainly don't have the same culture though or believe in the same things.

The gilnean and stormwind humans weren't really doing anything during arthas's attack. just sitting safely in their castles waiting for the undead horde to leave.

>BfA and Legion are the same garbage
>Somehow they're not in the same tier
??

The complexity of hunter in vanilla is moot because their DPS isn't even remotely comparable to the actually good, more simple PvE classes at endgame. No one cares about pushing a class's mechanics to their limits, ie "complexity", if the reward is still mediocre damage. You'll never get recruited for mastering the hunter rotation if the guild already has their hunter.

>koreans
*pumpkin chinese

>best character model and animations in the horde
>best looking armor in the horde
>only race that isn't a hunchback in the horde
>wonderful hair
>AoE silence+interrupt out of the GCD
>Cam Clarke VA
>hating on them is a meme
>10/10 city and starting zones in terms of aesthetics, music and NPCs

you see this kind of behavior happen with nignogs/cucks trying to push black male white/asian female

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They're literally the same people, their prince just changed their name in memory of the tragedy they all suffered at the hands of arthas. They're cultural identical and high elves all suffered through mana addiction too, they just all magically managed to deal with it because alliance characters never have to deal with any internal problems like that.

They've updated the models on a bunch of NPC races, doesn't mean they'll become playable. also the lore for Gilgoblins specifically states they're far less intelligent than Goblins and are focused on collecting shiny things.

As much as the Draenei and Worgen stick out on the Alliance side.

>ranking tbc on the same level as the xpac with cursed progression

The only magic shit that happen is they lost their immortality when they lost the well. And the culture changed sure, any culture would change after having 90% of their population killed and losing immortality. They still are high elves. Prince what's his face literally tells you they just renamed themselves Blood Elves in memory of their fallen brother in the mission you meet him in TFT.

Hunters in vanilla and tbc are exactly the same class with the difference that in TBC they actually scaled with gear well and in the ZA patch the deadzone was lowered from 8ya to 5ya.

I'm glad you'll be sticking to the alliance in classic as that's clearly where you should stay

>you see this kind of behavior happen with nignogs/cucks trying to push black male white/asian female

not everything is about your obsession with minorities user. some people really like porn about ridiculous size difference.

Stormwind is on the other side of the world like I said, Gilneas literally closed every door to not get overwhelmed by the scourge. Like I said, neither were in a position to help.

I'm not a blood elf or a tauren so it isn't cuckolding.

I don’t think high elves were ever described as immortal, just the night elves

Because it was better than Vanilla and Vanilla was good

>As much as the Draenei and Worgen stick out on the Alliance side.
The WoW version of Draenei don't stick out as much, they got that noble paladin vibe to them. I'll agree with Worgen but honestly I stopped giving a shit after WOTLK so I never had to deal with it.

It should have been BE and something else alliance, WC3 Draenei and still Goblins or maybe Ogres(with Goblins staying neutral) horde.

Stormwind is like a weeks march from Gilneas, they could easily have sent forces if they cared to. And Gilneas might've been able to defeat the undead army by assisting the survivors of lorderon if they'd actually tried, we'll never know since they preferred to watch their kinsman die horribly.
The sad part is, WoW would be a much better game if races still new how to act in self interest like the gilneans did back then, instead of anyone under a blue banner unifying in their undying pursuit of truth and justice like the modern alliance races do.

>zug-zugs your Blood Elf men
Would a Belf man even survive a night with a Kul Tiran woman?

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Goblins and ogres should have been in the Horde from Day 1

Based and Belfpilled

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Furry Tier
Tauren Male
Tauren Female

12 Year Old Tier
Human Male
Night Elf Male
Undead Male

Slut Tier
Gnome Female
Human Female
Night Elf Female

Doesn't Exist Tier
Dwarf Female
Undead Female
Troll Female

BASED Tier
Orcs
Gnome Male
Dwarf Male
Trolls

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the sad part is they were. Ratchet was totally a horde city in all but name, and the Dustwallow marsh ogres are literally members of the horde. But blizz decided they'd rather have playable undead than fill out the classic horde races.

>still this much in denial
Can't help it. Keep yiffing if you must, but Gilgoblins will become an allied race following the nazjatar content.

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It's not straight up immortality, but it's like 90% immortality. They won't die of natural causes unless something goes terribly wrong. Plus it's the fix their crack addicted asses need to not go crazy so.

Sounds about right

Stormwind is half a continent away from Gilneas(vertical) and Gilneas is a continent(horizontal) away from the sunwell and high elves. I don't really know what that is in terms of time to be honest but it seems like it should be more than a week. Agreed on the whole self-interest thing.

Based and shillpilled.

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I actually kinda dig the whole max jew neutral goblins. But Ogres should've been in instead of UD 100%. The only problem is they had no major Ogre characters left so they went with UD.

Because every Latin American shitter plays one

Play a real game, cowards.

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Anime aesthetics are a guarantee that the game is hot garbage 99% of the time.

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>Why do people think TBC was good again?
Same reason everquest fags say WoW was shit. Because it was someone's first experience to the MMO genre. All MMO's are shit, but because it's someone first experience to a massive world filled with players, for some reason they always get a pass.

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I don't get it

Sauce on the one to the right?

All of the fields.

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>yiffing fursdhitter dograper AUGH!!
Christ, can you people hold any kind of conversation without sperging out?

>14
>tbc was better
Boy you didn’t even play vanilla

Only things that piss me off about vanilla is ogres and Goblins not being in over fucking undead shitters. Goblins literally didn't get in till cata which is long past when WoW was good and ogres are never ever at this point.

How new are you? Trying to sage a thread with 1/3rd of the posters replying within

Please try to be calm and reread my previous post until you understand.

>they also make very little sense thematically to be on that faction
heh

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It's a real fucking shame about the ogres. They just wouldn't fit anywhere with their size.

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Probably due to the fact that Legion rolled out content quicker, had less bugs and didn't utterly rape the lore.

They're not much bigger than taurens.

>don't get based Taunka or Yaungol as allied races
>get Tauren with moose antlers instead

What pisses me off the most about how Blizzard handles Allied Races is how they completely ignore the perfectly usable races already in the game and instead create new races out of thin air specifically for being an AR. Same deal with the "Mecha"gnomes.

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you're a bitter and jaded nostaliga fag who will eat up classic for about 6 months tops until he realizes that theres no more mystery or wonder to anything in vanilla because its all been done before. and there will never be new content. ever. once its done its done. theres only so many times you can rerun UBRS

More like the 10 posters all replying within 1/3 of 10 minutes.

There's several groups of Ogres in the game that are Tauren-sized or just a little larger.

>mfw wildhammer dorfs never

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explain how their lore was changed from WC3 to BC

As previously explained, the whole goal of the allied races is to make content with as little effort as possible. Look at the fucking lightforged draenei.

And that's still preferable to retail WoW, at least what I'm coming home to isn't raped and ruined by years of garbage expansions and dipshit designers.

Well the first problem is that Kael'thas decided to go full retard off screen. After that you get the fact that these niggas who really hated orcs and trolls, and just got their home ravaged by the dead are willing to work with all of those things.

Put orcs, gnomes and trolls into 12 Years old tier and we've got an actual list

>all of them are dead, sorry
>here have some extra shiny draenei and asspull elves

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where my druid bros at?

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They aren't even dead is the worst part, they're just sitting there unused.

If TBC comes out I'm gonna be playing a Blood Elf Paladin and shit up the Horde with my metrosexual elf needledick and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

Rerolled to rogue after actually playing one at max level.

They're all supposed to be in Outland first of all

Go for it, with BC's release all the OG horde went alliance to get away from you fags. Blood elves killed faction identity.

so it didnt change you just dont like the direction it went in. gotcha

Here's the thing, though. Some of their choices, like the Dark Iron Dwarves, Mag'har Orcs, Kul Tirans, and Zandalari, are great because they use races that have been part of WoW for years, even over a decade, with tons of lore and familiarity behind them. And then there's choices like the Highmountain Tauren and Lightforged Draenei with are completely out of nowhere and seem like Blizzard laughing in the faces of people who wanted races like the Taunka or Broken, and especially now with the Full Metal Alchemist Gnomes.

The Nightborne and Void Elves I'm conflicted on, because I like having Nelves for Horde and Belves for Alliance, but I wish Blizzard hadn't half-assed the Nightborne models like they did the Night Elf models. Hell the playable Nightborne male looks nothing like the NPC Nightborne males and it pisses me right the fuck off.

That makes no sense. Draenei and lightforged models are different enough that it would take more work to add them than to use an existing race from a previous expansion.

Silvermoon was completely destroyed, retconned
ALL Blood Elves fled with Illidan to Outland, retconned
Kael'thas evil instead of altruistic
Blood Elves are now posh socialites for some reason
The entire Naaru kidnapping/blood knight arc was pulled from thin air just to give horde paladins

All of this happened offscreen you dumb nigger. That's a change fed to the players who are expected to shut up and just eat it.

>friends all quit BFA
>got sub left so i play for no real reason mostly grinding rep and transmogs
>classic beta comes out start watching some videos
>lose all interest in BFA and cant wait for classic
what the fuck am i going to do for 3 months? also you can't freeze game time correct?

Namefags are dumb, news at ten.

Play Warcraft 3 customs instead

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Except for one thing: Lightforged Draenei are just slight tweaks to the existing updated Draenei model. They'd have to make updated models for the old existing races, and we've all seen how long it takes for Blizzard to do that.

>Blizzard says they won't add High Elves because in lore they gave little numbers
>add Void Elves as a playable race which are even smaller in number
???

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play the lucky roulette
sub for 3 months at a chance for beta or stress test :^)
or play a private server and feel your pick before classic

>Silvermoon was completely destroyed, retconned
When was that retconned? The ruins of the destroyed city are in the game right next to the rebuilt capital.
>ALL Blood Elves fled with Illidan to Outland, retconned
I don't remember it being said that all of the blood elves left with the prince.

I want to marry and impregnate a blood elf so badly.

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if they release classic TBC, they need to shelve flying mounts. I don't remember anything about the zones, but were some only accessible via flying? if so, they're fucked. flying ruins the game, and destroys the spirit of classic.

Blood Elves are mana addicts

They gave up on the lore years ago. I don't think there audience would even know the difference now, or care.

>make very little sense thematically to be on that faction

Go play wc3 zoomer, they literally have a whole campaign dedicated to the alliance bulling the survivors away to the next powerful faction

They did it just to BTFO high elf fags even more

Technically (ogre sense) they're Rexxar's biches as he passed the gauntlet and seized power.

So are the high elves. The only difference is the high elves had their crack fountain supplying them with infinite mana so they never had to face their addiction. Play TFT.

>The best race comes out with the best story
>Ruins the sanctity of retarded mud niggers who can't agree on shit
Okay man.

And Rexxar is literally THE CHAMPION OF THE HORDE. You going to tell me he's not part of it?

>dedicated to the alliance
The Alliance of Lordaeron.
Most of which are Forsakeniggers now.
Which the Blood Elves are cool with working with.

>sanctity of the horde
>with undead in it

Who cares Space goats are still the better of the two

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High elves also didn’t betray the alliance because a human commander didn’t like them

WERE mana addicts. Remember the end of TBC had the dying Naaru cleanse and rekindle the Sunwell into a fount of Holy energy that's been slowly cleansing the Blood Elves. Most no longer have an addiction and you can have your Belf character have golden eyes instead of fel green.

zones were kino

Won't happen. Outland was designed for flying, there are many of max level areas which are intentionally accessible only with flying to prevent players from going there until the endgame.

The Alliance was being decimated, Garithos said a mean thing and they fucked off even though the elves themselves did dickass during the 1st and 2nd war. Garithos actually hates elves because they let his village get destroyed during the 2nd war as well.

Only certain areas and TK instances were accessible only by fight, and you'd have the money for the slow one at 70 or soon after if you were simply not spending like a tard. Leveling an alt solved the blue flying mount payement.
There's no spirit of classic as TBC had its own.

I actually never thought about that desu
But too be honest your entire race almost going to extinct and humans BTFO you prob is going to leave a bad taste in your mouth about them regardless of who actually did it

Because the edgy parts of them that made their theme mesh with the Horde (being a race of savage nobles among a faction of noble savages) by turning them into literal long eared humans.
I did not mind the Blood Elves while they were draining the Draenei's god to bend the light to their will and their blood knight quests were either edgy versions of the Alliance paladins or outright committing sacrilege just to say fuck you to light-worshipping humans.
But Sunwell killed everything that made them distinct from humans except the nice city and better model.

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>When was that retconned? The ruins of the destroyed city are in the game right next to the rebuilt capital.
The city is almost fucking pristine. That's a retcon. It wasn't rebuilt, it was just left mostly untouched. If you think it was "rebuilt" why did they conveniently fix everything except, oh I don't know THE MAIN FUCKING GATE.
>I don't remember it being said that all of the blood elves left with the prince.
Just because you don't remember it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Go watch a LP of the Blood Elf campaign or something.

>Most no longer have an addiction and you can have your Belf character have golden eyes instead of fel green.
Then why are they still a part of the horde?

I honestly believe Ogres will be the next big race to join the horde, if the game survives for that long. BFA is pretty deep in the shitter right now, isn't it?

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Get in line buddy.

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Rexxar is the champion of the horde but fucked off in Desolace, DWM ogres have no reason to serve the horde if the boss doesn't say so.

I haven't following WoW lore sorry. I guess you are right, but as of when they joined the horde they were addicts. Doesn't change the fact that it's the same race.

>he's shillposting for a Blizzard product in 2019

Should have had ogres instead of belves

Because they owe their existence to the horde?

Ogres and goblins should have been in the horde before pandas and elves

>elf apologists
Reminder that elves had always contributed the least to the Alliance and were content with using other races as a meat shield when the Horde invaded. Everything that happens to elves is deserved.

Why wouldn't they be? The horde helped them, the alliance didn't. Why would they defect to the people that didn't help them?

Yes I know goblins were there before pandas. Should have said pandas go alliance only

Belf Death Knights are the best

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The point is the boss literally could say so. Also ogres were part of the horde in the second war.

I don't even like The fucking weeb elves
Im just saying thats the reason their horde
regardless if it makes sense

This is wow were the horde just murdered and destroyed thousands of innocent night elfs with the burning of the tree, and are basically going to get away with it after slyvannis is dealt with.

You will shut up about belves right now or there will be repercussions, understand?

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They owed their lives to Sylvanas before she became warchief. Unfortunately I’m caught in a technicality

They joined with the Illidari, not the fucking Horde
It took them making Kaelthas go full retard for no reason for it to make any kind of sense whatsoever

>The city is almost fucking pristine.
Everything they build is pristine.

>Go watch a LP of the Blood Elf campaign or something.
No I've played the campaign a few times and I don't ever recall this being explicit. Show me where it's said that they all went. They also returned to Azeroth for the assault on Northrend, its perfectly reasonable to think some went back to Silvermoon instead of Outland.

Rexxar would've been fine as an Ogre Racial leader, sure he's not a full ogre, but he's a fan favorite and they could've easily built up new ogre characters around him. It's not like we had any forsaken NPCs other than Sylvanas before WoW.

TBC is so shitty. Everything was balanced around arenas so any and all cool items, buffs, and gear was removed or nerfed for "muh pvp balance". You would NEVER see anything like Dark Edge, Green Whelp Armor, Freezing Band, or Ironfoe in TBC and beyond.

Remember when the Alliance saved the Sunwell in TBC?

I hit rank 10 on my warrior and my guild cleared bwl and aq20 so that's a fairly accomplished 13 year old.

But I sold that account in late tbc for $300(when you actually could sell accounts) now I'm left with this edgy demon hunter and a shit load of rare mounts but no desire to play. I'm not even going to play vanilla. Enough is enough.

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they should've be any bigger than tauren, if they can shrink tauren down to work there's no reason they can't do the same for ogres. War3 tauren were fucking huge.

You really don't.

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Doesn't matter that is the reason the belfs are horde if you like it or don't

Blame blizzard not me

>private server autist thinks most hunters in vanilla were min maxing auto shot clipping and aimed shot, rather than just spamming whatever button they had available
get a load of this retard

They're faggots and so are you.

Wold WoW Classic be good for a first timer? What classes would you recommend?

I never played WoW after vanilla but I always thought getting rid of faction-exclusive classes was fucking retarded. Absolutely no sense for alliance to have shamans and horde to have paladins.

Are the HFP quests where you help them kill a bunch if Cenarion Circle druids so they can keep harvesting tainted lands for demon blood crack still there?

You're right that they could've done. But Rexxar was pretty much a side campaign(founding of Durotar wasn't even available when TFT shipped IIRC). Meanwhile Sylvannas was pretty much top 5 important characters in TFT.

Their not even hot normie go jerk off to regular pron and imagine them having nigger elf ears

Here's the thing, though: the majority of Ogres are stupider than the rocks they chew on, and their number of heads dictates what class they are. It would take a titanic asspull for Blizzard to make a playable faction of Ogres where both one-heads and two-heads are intelligent and one-heads can be magic users and two-heads can be martial classes.

secret wc3 tower defense mission is about kael fleeing to outland

But Muh masculine women and feminine men

Amen brother, fuck elves gib ogres.

>Everything they build is pristine.
Except the aforementioned main gate and the path straight through the middle of the city? Listen man you're just being willfully ignorant and I'm not going to sit here trying to convince someone with their fingers in their ears and their eyes shut.

They are still 100% addicted, its just now they have a constant stream of magic from the new sunwell, if that goes out they are fucked again.

Probably going to remake my main in classic to try and get him those PvP titles he never got back then (was a total noob so i only got to sergeant)

What's not hot? Blood Elves?
Are you having a mental breakdown atm?

Warriors and Hunters for 1 headed, warlocks and shamans for 2 headed. Restrict cosmetic choice based on class(not that hard). Done.

I think the worst thing they ever did was "sunwalkers".

Really nigga? Tauren are shamanistic nomads, some idiot at blizzard was like OH WELL THEY SIT IN THE SUN ALL DAY.. THATS THE LIGHT EH?

Undead Hunter is fine though. I always liked blightcaller

if your goal is to play something sexy in a fantasy game why would you pick baiscully just blonde girls with long ears?
When you can pick pandas or drania instead?
if thats your one goal, you might literally get more joy out of a barbie game than wow desu

Yeah, but as of the end of the Sunwell raid they're just better humans that make no sense on the Horde.
At least before they had loads of spite, arrogance, and ruthlessness. Now Lor'themar is such a goddamn cuck he's spending an entire patch helping out the bitch who slaughtered his people because five elves helped Garrosh.

I always thought the whole point of the BE starter zone/capital was to give off a hint that something was terribly wrong underneath the glimmering surface. Some places are just better at hiding it - while it makes sense to keep the general population in the city unaware of how bad things are outside.

You mean the Dead Scar where the very ground is so tainted by the Scourge's foulness that nothing can grow which also goes straight through both of their starting zones?

I don't really have anything constructive to add to the waifu or lore discussion going on right now but I just wanted to say this and didn't want to create an entirely new thread because it kind of fits here:

WoW will forever be disappointing to me.

Starting with modern WoW:

>Your destiny is pre-determined
>Everything outside of the main story is just for vanity and doesn't feel worth doing
>Progression just feels like a massive grind. Running mythics and raiding endlessly just isn't fun
>Catch-up progression isn't fun either. World quests just feel like a gamble grind. They're not better than dailies. At least with dailies you knew what you were working towards.
>Every NPC needs a unique VA and is too cinematic, they baby you along while you're progressing

Classic WoW:

>Everything is super grindy
>Everything takes forever
>Everything needs a group
>There isn't always "enough" to do, just working on the same things you were always working on.

I prefer not being the ultimate "hero of azeroth" but I like how engaging and cinematic modern WoW is. It's a little overbearing with voiced characters chiming in to tell you what to do constantly. Progression in classic WoW felt like everything you did mattered but it just took a long time to do unless you had a regular group you played with. With modern Blizzard is doing too much to try and help players keep up with gear ilvl but they're just recycling content. I tried and try to get into pve in both modern and classic but it was just hard to keep up with the gear floor because of how time consuming everything was. Keeping is still hard in modern because it's so exhausting to run the same shit every week a billion times. And every piece on my character is outdated within a week.

PvP is the only saving grace and even that's hard for me to be truly pleased with because of the shitshow of toxicity in the upper rating ranges.

I am looking forward to playing classic when it comes but am prepared to be underwhelmed lol

see

that's some comically level gymnastics to go from "attempted genocide on" to "he was slightly mean to them"

Boy, the anger and outrage at having such tight restrictions would make the supervolcano in Yellowstone look like a firecracker.

Another problem: there are no female Ogres.

t. zoomer

Garithos did nothing wrong faggot

Because I’m fucking retarded and insecure while also hating the current state of real women

Forget it, these people hate elves on principle and cheer Garithos as eagerly as they cheer Trump.

Fuck World of Warcraft. It feels like a second job except that it is unpaid.

Shut it down and have Blizzard give us Warcraft 4.

There also weren't any female taurens or trolls(that I know of, feel free to prove wrong) until WoW. Also if they did it since launch and had maybe like 1 or 2 introduction quests where it explains the head thing I think it would've been fine.

t. Elf sympathizer and thread derailed

>The city is almost fucking pristine
Falconwing square, the whole dilapidated area that you go to immediately after questing was a part of Silvermoon. Their capital is fucking split in half down the middle because Arthas hates the scenic route.

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Because I am not into beastiality.

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Blood Elves are the best race of the horde. Fight me faggots.

Asking a military force to hold a position, even if odds are extremely bad, is not even close to genocide. Less prepared forces have been asked more in real life. Hard choices have to be made in war.

Goblins would've been better imo, Ogres still don't have a female model.

>simplifying classes
added like 5 new skills to each character and 2 new talent tiers.

to be fair the sunwalkers dont use the light, they are just sun druids and blizzard cant be assed to make a class for the so they just used paladins and priest, but even that is a stretch

I know this is a strange concept to your sex addled brain, but you don't have to jack of to every video game character you play as.

I 99% agree, which is why no high elves kind of boggles my mind. It's a highly requested choice and would be the super-est of low effort yet they're against it. I find it very odd and surprising considering it's Blizzard.

Tauren and Trolls were female-less in only one game before WoW, and it was an RTS with limited models anyways. Ogres have been without women since the second RTS game, they didn't even make female Ogres in Warlords of Draenor where the Ogres had a huge focus.

Crossing over the great scar. Fucking with turbolord. Good times.

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Fuck off tumblrina.

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I love how Blizzard outright stated that they will never ever touch the Belf and Draenei starting areas in any way, not to update them or anything.

they wouldn't be able to balance raids or pvp for shit if that was the case.
they dropped race+sex exclusive classes with introduction of wow, i dont see you complaining about that you bitchass vanilla baby

blood elves make sense to be paladins, they are high elves after all that spend many years with humans, often mixing with them.
dunno enough about draenei

Yeah using aimed shot and waiting real complex.

Every class in vanilla was 1 or 2 button.

The entire vanilla ideal of you being a literal who could not last long term unless you want every character to constantly forget that you were on the front of every major conflict and came out alive and even achieved some major victories.
Now Legion making you the single greatest to ever live and deserving of carrying the might into battle was a bit fucking much. However the little nods in Wrath or making you a general in WoD was fine, Blizz just went too far and implemented it poorly.

maybe they are non binary

Man people will shit on me because classic circle-jerking has been a thing ever since people were bitching about world pvp being dead.

I love TBC. I loved Outland as a world where every zone was visually fantastic and all the gear was high fantasy in design. I loved the dungeon design and the heroics in particular were a fantastic addition. Most of them were so hard that kara-level gear was required to run them successful. Some had challenge modes onto of that were just ballcrushingly hard. The raids with the ten man and 25 man changes were amazing. I loved how much fluff was cut from our raid team and just how much more complex bosses started to become. Kael's fight was absolutely awesome and Kara is still one of the best experiences I've ever had in a video game.

Classes got buffed too. hybrids could start to perform in all roles while still being unique. Pure classes got buffs in their toolsets for survival, control, and damage. The addition of the shaman and paladin to both sides removed faction diversity, but added a whole new class for raid comps to consider.

I fucking loved that expansion and I loved it more than vanilla. It was everything I wanted out of the game and more.

Did it kill WoW? It killed pvp to me. Arenas and arena balancing affected my abilities in pve play while also making pvp less fun. It became more rock-paper-scissors than ever to me. It also made the game more grindy since I needed both a pvp and pve set. I think the only thing it did was prevent hardcore raiders from also dominating pvp like they did in vanilla because gear => skill in most matchups.

I think the badge grind and addition to dailies laid the groundwork for those to become really simplistic wage-slave simulators in the future expansions.

But TBC to me was the last time WoW was any good. Wotlk kept adding shit ideas and continued homogenizing classes. Ulduar and ICC aside, I disliked all other aspects. Especially DKs and their fucking piano gameplay.

What I'm saying is they could have easily made a female model for them.

WOTLK is the most they should've went. They aknowledge you and your friends are powerful heroes, but that's it. You're just a meathead, muscle. You're not a great leader or anything. WOD took it too far since it makes no sense for literally every single player to lead the expedition in Draenor.

Killing all of them because they accepted help from ugly people is though, retard.
Garithos should've been fine with the inhuman working with the inhuman so long as they won Lorderon back for its true sons and daughters. He could be racist without throwing away all of his fucking support because the fish women make his pants tight.

Pointless to do in an RTS where they're not going to be a playable unit.

>mage rotation is literally frostbolt
>warlock rotation is literally shadowbolt
>every other class rotation is 2 buttons, occasionally 3
>MC is easy as fuck
>BWL is easy as fuck
>other raids are comically easy with the exception is 2-3 fights in each
me like hardcore gaem cause have to walk to deadmine!

You know it really sucks if you aren't a typical social person you won't honestly have it easy in Classic WoW.

youtube.com/watch?v=WDwYGIZ8U7I

This is the experience most of you will have. Even worse if you roll on alliance, since that side is more bigoted and elitist than horde.

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For WoW, not for WC3. Let me rephrase, ogres not having a female model shouldn't have been an issue to ogres being playable since they could've just created one in WoW.

Them having a different phase of them as a warfront or whatever wouldn't suck, but yeah BC should remain as it was. One of the few expansions you can go back to for the classic feel.

Honest thoughts on TipsOut? Based or Cringe?

If it's so easy, where's your tier 3 character or corrupted ashbringer?

This. TBC was good, but it was the beginning of the end. It set in motion that which would ultimately bring WoW down.

WotLK ruined everything afterwards. Shame casuals worship it so much.

stop shilling your videos you faggot

>He could be racist without throwing away all of his fucking support because the fish women make his pants tight
>Garithos was Frollo years before Disney thought of it
I can imagine him singing "Hellfire" in his tent while looking out at the Naga women.

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>youtube.com/watch?v=WDwYGIZ8U7I

Not the video creator.

/ourguy/

sneed

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Illidan's Naga were a hostile force that had already attacked several night elf towns

I'm not saying you can't jack off to any of them, but give your poor dick a break. I promise you it'll be better if you take a few days off.

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Thought you were talking about the Tauren and Trolls. Yeah, they should have, if only for a template for female Ogres in WoW and so they wouldn't have that excuse to fall back on.

>show us your private server character!!
kys chink mafia

>45 minute video of a literal who rambling about his inability to talk to people
You couldn't make it more obvious that it's your vid. Sperg more.

You type the same way. everyone know it's you ban dodging nigger.

Vanilla had you worrying about threat and resource management. What is it with modern WoW players only caring about rotation and damage numbers?

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>the same avatarfagging cancer that destroyed /wowg/ is doing the same to the home threads

The taurens and trolls were only to illustrate that it doesn't matter if a race used to not have female versions since they can easily make female versions.

Making the player characters a sort of figurehead at all is just too corny for me, and doesn't really make sense in a mmorpg. I think a happy medium would be to recognize PCs as elite soldiers in the alliance/horde army. It would make a lot more sense.

>it makes no sense for literally every single player to lead the expedition in Draenor.
If you could make your garrison in any place it could've worked better since you were just leading your force instead of the entire Horde/Alliance offensive. If Bladespire and Karabor were the faction cities and your little garrison was an outpost with all the utility of the forts you make up during questing WoD would've been in a much better spot.
But Blizz went too far and made Garrisons the be all end all of that expansion and it cost of half the fucking expansion.

Rexxar has no reason lore wise to go to war in the classic-tbc arc
oy vey this horde is different :^)

op

>classic dies within a month, only players left are zoomers following around some random streamer
>meanwhile, retailchads will get 8.2 with nazjatar and all the azshara content
>classicucks will crawl back to retail

Still wouldn't make sense to have literally hundreds(if not thousands) of outposts in every zone. Just do it like said and like WOTLK did. Players are just super strong soldiers but are still just that, soldiers. They aren't heroes in the same way that Thrall, Arthas etc are/were.

yeah we wouldn't want any titanic lore fuckups in class selection, like letting female night elves be druids or male night elves be warriors. or like letting warlocks into the alliance, or gnomes being warriors.

Video isn't me though

>youtube.com/watch?v=WDwYGIZ8U7I

>frostbolt
>frostbolt
>frostbolt
>wait a second because threat high
>frostbolt
>frostbolt
heh, retail players don't understand what its like to have to really focus

Reeally self-projecting here bud.

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more spells doesnt mean harder to play
>rogue in vanilla raids: sinister strike, eviscerate
>rogue in bfa raids: mutilate, garrote, rupture, envenom, toxic blade/exsanguinate, fan of knives

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>Blood Elves come and ruin the sanctity of the Horde

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>already attacked several night elf towns
And what's that got to do with Lorderon?
Lorderon didn't know Night Elves fucking existed, much less have any allegiance to them.
Besides his stated reason was that they were inhuman, as if the Dwarves and Elves weren't also inhuman.

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They're talking about TBC, and BFA removed spells...

Garithos didn't even know night elves existed, how the fuck would he know who illidan was or that he had apparently attacked some elves (that garithos hated anyway)?

I know
what I mean is BFA have less spells yet is more complex to play than vanilla

reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/br42kf/vanilla_world_of_warcraft_from_a_friendless/
lmfao he's now shilling his videos on REDDIT

That's how it's gonna be.
I only hope that they don't butcher Azshara. Both figuratively and literally.

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yeah it's complex to check your rotation in icy veins

You do realize that if you swapped b and c it'd just be a time-line, right?

>NO CHANGES!!!!!!!!
>except for layering, sharding, wow token, cash shop, twitter integration, loot trading, instant mail, right click report

>Still wouldn't make sense to have literally hundreds(if not thousands) of outposts in every zone.
It also wouldn't make sense thousands of soldiers to get a nod from Garrosh because they all grinded mag'har rep. Suspension of disbelief, man.

there are priorities, there are procs, energy pooling for rogues and other stuff like that, a lot of passive stuff to take into account
vanilla is just mindless SS, evi spam

Chinkdale won.

dont forget slice and dice bro

My whole point is that these nods shouldn't be made. The most they should do is the nod that Arthas gives the whole player base in general by stating they are the strongest champions, but he doesn't give individual nods/

>you can only play one or the other
>not being WoW idort

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Holy fuck he has so many post on reddit
this reddit namefag shit is so cringe why do mods allow it

you might not like it, but this is the only correct expansion ranking

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Don't forget cancerous streamers and their lackeys.

Not like this bros ... NOT LIKE THIS

Again, it doesn't make sense for there to be thousands of champions, or heroes.
We're either complete no names in which case the many times we fought shoulder to shoulder with big names has zero lasting impact or there to be some acknowledgement along the lines of "yeah you were one of the few who defeated x, we could use your skill"

Actually what will ruin horde before blood elves do on classic is the fucking twitch zoomer army going horde because like 13 out of 15 streamers are horde.

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wotlk = mop > legion = cata > bc > wod > vanilla

>play on EU
>dont have to deal with the twitch redditors shitting up the game
>have better players for both pve and pvp
lmaoing @ ur lyfe amerilard

>leads to the one of infinite timelines where garrosh is a great warchief.

You don't think euros watch streams lmao?

What are you talking about? Most streamers are Alliance because of Assmongoloid.

Arena ruined PvP.

>Steady shot
>Auto shot
>Steady shot

Maybe you should actually go watch?
There's 3 alliance streamers including asmongold.

crossrealm BGs ruined pvp

arenas are based

Factions ruined pvp with imbalances and zerging

DK should've been used as a punishment for killing innocent players.

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Seriously? I play horde and I was thinking streamers wouldn't be a big deal because I'd only interact with them through fighting. Please tell me it's not real.

top 3 dumbest posts itt

Asmon, Esfand, and?

Source and is there more?

>t. shitter

It might only be on NA but almost all "influencers" are horde including the biggest one which is soda.

Real shit: Classic, BC, pre-firelands Cata, MoP
Whatever: Legion
Shit: WotLK, post-firelands Cata, WoD, BFA

>give your poor dick a break

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e621.net/pool/show/17392

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>You will live to see pre-nerf Cata heroics again

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>Legion's legendary system
How did anyone like this shit? RNG legendaries and some of them are just fucking shit.

Back in the day when you had a long list of people on your friends list that you had never met in real life but they where good players and were down to fill a slot in a heroic.

Maybe if the faggot devs were smart enough to balance for pvp differently and didn't lead to the gradual removal of items with flavor to appease pillar humpers. TDM is a shit mode in and of itself and objective-based PVP will always offer more variety in playstyle and plans.

Isn't Asmongold the biggest one? Never seen a single soda but this dude pops up on my recommeded list all the time.

This! So much this! The base game and it's expansions have always followed a great/shit pattern.

>Classic
Great
>TBC
Shit
>Wrath
Great
>Cata
Shit
>Mists
Great
>WoD
Shit
>Legion
Great
>BfA
Shit

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Imagine accidentally joining a server with streamers.
youtu.be/eWAdB8IEb_o

No, he's the second biggest one and the other alliance streamers are his irl friends.

Asmongold is just one streamer. Horde streamers dwarf Alliance streamers. Youtube recommendations are just from his followers, he doesn't do shit on youtube.

Alliance literally outnumbered Horde yesterday because Assmongoloid couldn't get his precious axe and cried for backup.
Staysafe, Quin69, I don't memorize streamer names but I do remember seeing more Alliance streamer during daytime EST.

swap cata and wrath and youre right

t. pserver wintrader/nolife
Top 5 most intelligent poster ITT

>put the worst one in the middle
uhhh, why?

soda is about 2x bigger than asmon and besides asmon almost every streamer is horde