How did FF7 not alienate everyone?

fpbp

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I didn't know people unironically think that

It's was babby's first FF.

>US marketing budget of over $100 fucking million

Still blows my mind. Gotta miss when Squaresoft had fucking balls. Fucking Squeenix sucks.

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>futuristic setting
>focus on le big action set pieces
So?

>pre rendered background that make movement a pain.
Are you a spatially challenged jew?

>similar amount of time to ff13 (which everyone did complain about) before game FF7 was never a corridor, unlike 13.

>>Somehow worse version of atb.
How so?

Well in terms of FF they always had nightmares trying toocalize the series. They kicked down the fucking door with their giant chink cocks with 7.

Dunno man,
>no main character, the few that get any real development can be summed up in two sentences
>mediocre music where no tracks are particularly memorable
>the clown being the big bad is extraordinarily stupid and there's no real build up to it
>painfully retarded sequences like the opera scene
>the end of the world forces you to get all your party members again just to beat the game in the most tedious sequence imaginable
>the end of the world also undoes all the characterization of Celes
>shitty side characters
>kefka poisons a kingdom because ??? oh i guess they needed the mustache guy to have a reason to join you
>ultra simple combat system
>very little challenge
>poorly fleshed out ability and esper systems
I get it, it's the hipsters choice because FF7 is so le overrated and it's actually le best FF ever but there's a point where after 15 years of your bullshit people are gonna check out what you're talking about and they're gonna confront you about the flaws. It's pretty bad. Definitely one of Square's weaker games. It's largely forgotten about in Japan and held in very low regard.

>similar amount of time to ff13 (which everyone did complain about) before game world opens up

Bullshit. You can leave Midgar in a few hours. It takes double digit hours to get to the open field in 13, and for abilities to be unlocked. Even levelling was a corridor in 13.

Because you're seeing a game released in the 90's with eyes from almost the 2020's. You obviously have no idea the huge leap that was going from Final Fantasy VI with sprites and 2D over-the-head maps to a full 3D enviroment, monsters, CGI videos and disc-quality music. That novelty alone is what made people so interested in games like this, Ocarina of Time and Super Mario 64 to name the more popular ones. The fact that it actually was an incredibly good game with an engaging story and a world filled with secrets is what made it so popular.

Simply said, stop evaluating retro games with modern standards.

>futuristic setting
ff has always had futuristic elements. plus, ff6 had already moved away from the ye olde medieval setting anyway.

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>toocalize
to localize*

>me no like popular ting
>nobody should like popular ting
Low quality bait

I used to hate 8, but then I saw how bad it got

>Simply said, stop evaluating retro games with modern standards.

This shit will never end.

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Even if I can see a couple of your points, you're nitpicking way too hard and those look more like personal complains than actual issues with the game. The fact that you believe the opera scene is retarded when is one of the most important development points for Celes tells me that you skipped through dialogies.

I love Mario 64, it hasn't aged well but it's still very easy to brush off the jank and have a fun time playing.
FF7 is just tedious to play for me. I love the atmosphere and music, and I mightve even loved the story, but it wasn't enjoyable enough on a mechanical level for me to finish

6 is good. I think it’s weirdly overrated in that people like to say they prefer it over 7 just so not say they like 7 buy that’s it

But fallout 3 has absolutely not been seen to hold up. 7 mostly does.

It was basically the first game they could market like that and not look retarded. With the 3d graphics and techpunk setting.

What surprises me is how I never saw the game marketed as a kid. A friend suggested I play his copy when I got a ps2

Nothing has changed

We'll never get kino advertising like this ever again.

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I like how the ports have the 3x speed mode, I won’t lie.

9 kinda screwed it up though. It’s high speed mode is way too fast and the normal speed game is unbearably slow

Sorry, having the SNES tinny and low quality samples sing to me was a miserable experience. It was out of place and Celes may be the poorest handled character in the series.

This. I wouldn't call it a bad game, it even has a whole bunch of charm. But I can't put myself back into the mindset of when that was impressive. Probably not helped by more impressive stuff coming after on the PS1. Felt like I was being pulled along a pretty linear thread, with gameplay that was nothing special for a story that was pretty good but nothing extraordinary.

In a way I can see why it would benefit from a remake, make the graphics and set pieces impressive again.

Fpbp

In Europe it was the first numbered Final Fantasy ever released I'm pretty sure, so most people wouldn't have been able to compare it with older FFs (barring the shit that did come out over here, like Mystic Quest)

I was thirteen in 97, and saw an ads for it at a now defunct department store, but didn't really see it anywhere else. Looking back, I think the most advertising I've seen for a game back then was for Quake.

>fallout 1, 600k units
>fallout 3, 12.5mil units
it does hold up whether you like the game or not. i certainly dont, but these are the facts.

90s advertising was savage.

>similar amount of time to ff13
Yeah that 5 hour midgar section sure is as long as the 40 hour tutorial of FF13.

Underrated post

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Please immediately drink bleach.

>futuristic setting
so was VI.

Be mad. 6 was very bad.

underrated stroke

Its a good game, was on the forefront of 3D graphics and most "importantly" it was lots of faggots first FF title

Also I actually loved the jump to prerendered backgrounds from tilesets, but since ff4 was my first then went and played 1 and then 6 shortly before 7 released it was a tad weird but the jump between 6 to 7 isnt that big
Vector and Midgar have about the same level of machinery

Final Fantasy was ruined when 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 came out. The series has never recovered and will be dying soon, just as it was in 1988

We’re not talking about sales, we’re talking about quality. Don’t change the subject

The commercial for this game scared the shit out of me, especially having no context for that part where Sephiroth finds Jenova during the flashback so it just looks like he's getting attacked by some horrifying metal angel

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Phone in my defense.

Fallout 3 didn't even hold up when it was released.

don't forget Chrono Trigger came out between the two as well

It’s a good game overall, it came out at the right time, and they hit it out of the park with one character’s arc in particular

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>similar amount of time to ff13 (which everyone did complain about) before game world opens up.
You're severely overestimating how long it actually takes to get through Midgar, it's really not that bad time wise

oh yeah holy shit they fucking kill it in that period

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That was from superfans. Woth New Vegas coming out it was considered the superior entry, and eventually through the flood of New Vegas memes this became accepted widely

it is absolutely about sales. much more people associate the series with 3 before they even begin to think about the previous games, if they even know about them.

Yeah it just feels long because of how great it is. Discovering the world map just adds to that.

Midgar is also way less linear (had shops and peolle to talk to) and is soent building character with clear goals in mind

>hi-res backgrounds

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The OP is about reception, not sales. The thread is not about sales

6 already set the stage for most of the stuff 7 ran with so it's really not that jarring. Moreover, at the time 7 came out, US only had 3 FFs to compare it too. For PAL it was their literal first.

>Square
It was more Sony of America. Sony even localized the game rather than Squaresoft.

Maybe because in the US all we got were 3 FF games out of six plus a spinoff and some handheld games that weren't really FF games. And most people of that niche audience only played VI before VII made JRPGs mainstream and became the standard going on so that expectations had to stack the games prior against it rather than it against them.

FF7 had a neat setting but i've always preferred FF6 over it

if you put FF6 in a FF7 style engine it would wipe the floor with FF7

You seriously have no idea what you're talking about. Have you ever actually played FF game before 10?

They have the same core plot, how is FF6 any better than 7?

>futuristic setting
Modern
>focus on le big action set pieces
No?
>pre rendered background that make movement a pain.
No.
>similar amount of time to ff13 before game world opens up.
Not even fucking close.
>Somehow worse version of atb.
OP has dumb brain.

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because 7 eight nine

If anything, the actual drag is getting out of Midgar and discovering the world map, only to have sit through Cloud's long ass flashback in Kalm, which sucks the life out of you on subsequent playthroughs

By far the best thing about some mods is they give you the option to skip this garbage. Kalm flashback, Barret flashbacks, etc. It really makes the game more replayable.

I disagree. Sometimes I think 7 would be improved without the 3d after all. Less popular tho

That flashback is peak “cool the first time”

The blow was lessened with FF6 doing pretty much the same thing before it.

Exactly, I never had a problem with Midgar, because you were either doing something interesting to further character development, or when you weren't you got to dick around in Wall Market, or see how the Shinra office workers went about their normal days

Especially Cloud's shit, so fucking long they actually have to stop halfway through to let you save so you can turn it off if you want

Barret's flashback is actually worth watching though.

Good argument

Autist.

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Kefka did way more savage shit than Sephiroth.

Poisoned an entire Castle, Burned down a village of blue mages, genocided the Espers, shaped the world to his vision killing half the population, and became a God... if it was a full 3d game it would be the best.

>I trusted Shinra despite not everyone in my town agreeing
>Shinra betrayed us and burned down the town
We really didn't need a 10 minute series of flashbacks for that, especially when you can't skip them on subsequent playthroughs.

>complaining about the futuristic setting
>when the empire in FF6 set the precedent
I'm sure there was shit even earlier then that.

Latter day FFs hold off on stakes too much I find.

7 did not reveal the true villain right away but you still had a villain

Exdeath was the most savage of all, everytime he showed up a named character was gonna die.

But there’s more to it than just that

It’s also rather long considering it gets resolved right away in the next area

Even FF1 had a technologically advanced civilization that built flying fortresses and robot shits, even if they were extinct by the time the game takes place.

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Later games were alienating because the technology stopped seeming practical. Pretty much everything in X was style over substance

There wasn't much to compare it to.

Did you even play X?
They make a point of showing that blitzball is the only wacky technology they're allowed to have, fuck the ship you leave besaid on is powered by chocobos.

people use to not be such outrageous attention seeking faggots
The internet has made creative freedom dead.

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I cannot describe how magical that intro CGI was to the modern crowds I guess. And having beyond hype expectations as a 17 year old, only to find my my expectations to be so underachieving. Twas a different time: I followed this company Squaresoft because of Secret of Mana I played when was 15 which I loved. Only knew about FF3(6) because of some digging around on the then quite new internet and played Chrono Trigger and FF6 with an emulator.
FF7 really was insane at the time, all it's hype deserved. In fact, I do think it's the sole reason it's being discussed here in this thread right now, now, every1 knows this series. Back then? Hardly.

This metal face holds up super well graphically

>flying castles
>practical

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Honestly some of the CGI is still pretty great. It's not FF8's attempt at highly detailed realistic visuals in its movies, but then 8 had a real uncanny look to it as a result. Nomura's full sized anime character designs for 7 worked really well in that regard, and the detail mattered where it needed to as some of the environmental shots (particularly in Midgar) are still pretty great for what was basically a metric ton of early 3D rendering. There are some scenes where it doesn't look as good, and the chibi models being used in some of the CGI doesn't help, but those aren't the majority.

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I know machina are banned in the game’s present but blitzball was played even when they werent and makes no sense at all

I could at least buy a flying fortress looking like that but you’re right that I should not state things absolutely. I think later games veered more into silliness

fpbp

there is no game like it in the series before or after, its sort of hard to explain because its a feeling thing. I've had friends who played it for the first time like 20 years after its release say its nostalgic to them. It also has a lot of departures from the series, like having a lot of foul language, set pieces as you mentioned (which aren't inherently bad, despite your implication), the heroine of the story dies pretty much on purpose so she can merge with the planet, the enemies in the game are absolute bizarre as well, like nearly everything is some horrible biological experiment, and FF games are no strangers to strange enemies so this stands out. It also the first game to have controllable limit breaks (unless you can reliably manipulate desperation attacks in 6 now or something). Cloud is also an unreliable narrator and perhaps the first one in video games, as you don't know what the fuck is real for like 80% of the game.

It also pioneered cutscenes in video games to the point that most vidya still do it in the FF7 style. It's true that if they didn't do it another game might have, but they did do it sot hey get the credit. There are many reasons FF7 is revolutionary game, even if some people don't consider it the objective best, which of course can be argued.

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There is no sense at all in the FFX storyline, it is the definition of batshit insane. Just written to get from set-piece to set-piece, from character arc to emtion and nothing else. Any1 trying to take it seriously is just taking the the coo-coo train.

While 6 and 7 share a lot of similarities, the World knew Kefka wasnt a great guy. No one knew Sephiroth summoned the Meteor outside of Shinra and your group. Shinra even covered up that Sephiroth went mad and burned down Nibelheim, so they didnt lose face that a 1st Class War Hero went rogue. Everyone in the world thought he was dead.

The weird translation was also oddly genius. It meant things could be forshadowed but not detected or taken seriously until a second file

My favorite example ifthe Nibelheim flashback. Tifa never refers to Cloud like he is an old friend returned. And you may not notice the first time or may think it’s just some awkward writing. But it isn’t

>how would there not be threads complaining about how un-Final Fantasy this game is?
The kids that played it back then would also have had to play the previous games to hold that opinion.
FF7 was just most people's first FF, and for a vast majority of people their first Final Fantasy is their favorite.
Someone's still going to reply that this isn't true for them like they're super special because of it though.

Why have redditors started putting a full stop to the end of greentext lines?

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Final Fantasy was better when all of the games were self-contained, so something like 7 could afford to be so radically different. Ever since the Square-Enix merger, this compilation of VII shit, X-2, the XIII sequels and the failed attempt at XIII side-games, and other stupid shit have dragged everything through the mud worse than individual games. Like that X artbook guy that went "oh yeah, X is totally a distant prequel to VII because that kid named Shinra doing Farplane experiments had descendants take a rocket to VII's world where they would eventually become the Shinra Inc. through his research" after the HD remasters came out.

>aeris dies on purpose

I never caught that but it makes sense. She also can communicate via dream, she must have learned a lot in the Temple with thise episodes she had

Futuristic setting already started with 6
Also 13 starting off linear wouldn't have been an issue if the story and characters actually made us care enough to progress.

It's less [X is bad] and more [X done badly is bad], which is a big difference.

yeah the translation really did help add to its surreal nature, despite being pretty wonky in general.

If you look at the game in the context of the time it came out, it was basically to RPGs what OoT was to action adventure

>meanwhile in FF7
>oh yeah Shinra were just weapons merchants but a few decades back mako energy revolutionized everything and they came into true power
Yeah, if that's the case for the FFX artbook it makes everything really dumb.

some fans theorize that she knew from the start of the game because of that shot in the ending, while others believe that even before the forgotten city and other things she had the plan in mind to die.

Final Fantasy 10 is better. Only disc 1 of FF7 is entertaining. disc 2 is just shitty pointless filler and grinding and disc 3 is a boss battle that takes 5 minutes to beat.

I always understood it as Holy required a sacrifice to use. So she was going to die either way.

I remember it was artbook related but I can't remember exactly who proclaimed it. Whatever the case this was around the same time people started finding out about X-2.5 since the HD Remaster had an audio drama after it, and Square were like "yeah we might be down for making another X sequel in the future" after literally fucking everything up with 2.5, so it was probably one jackass trying to retcon a shout-out into a canon tie-in that has no real bearing.

She seemed to know in the dream convo. She’s sort of... distracted and taking everything a little lightly.

She adds “I’ll be back” in a perfunctory fashion and tells Cloud not to worry

Yes user, resolution has improved since then. Did you also know that the Mega Drive was advertised as a HD console?

>holy requires a sacrifice to use
>meanwhile the planet destroying materia meteor can be used for free as long as you have enough power
>also WEAPONs just chill out while every last bit of spiritual energy is being sucked out of the planet for decades
Why is the planet so fucking retarded bros?

Isnt the original founder of Shinra in FFX?

That was originally just a reference to VII, albeit a really blatant and dragged out one. As the posts above point out, someone in the company in more recent history decided to try to proclaim he really was the cause for VII by descendants.

>>similar amount of time to ff13 (which everyone did complain about) before game world opens up.

You leave Midgar in the first 20th of the game and access the world map. You leave the corridor in FFXIII in the LAST 20th of the game.

I think the Cetra created the Black Materia, thats why they sealed it away because it was too powerful for anyone to potentially use and Jenova was stopped before they needed to use it as a last resort if she infected the planet and used it as her vessel.

Holy was meant to save the planet, and was probably created by the planet. It required a sacrifice to call to it for help, awakening the Weapons, and stopping meteor.

>and was better than every game in the series before then and after.
user. No. I don't even dislike FF7, but no.

i mean if we want to be accurate, VII's entire midgar prologue for those that know what they're doing takes around as much time as Roxas' prologue and Sora finally kickstarting his adventure in KH2 without cutscene skipping. so 4-5 hours, possibly 6. but XIII basically putting a fake open world solely for grinding right before the endgame was bad enough, most people don't mention that 90% of the hours leading up to that has you constantly switching party members with the plot so you don't get any combat depth that isn't the "puzzle" for the area/boss. it takes until near fucking endgame for the game to finally let you control your party composition and really start letting loose.

And Midgar was charming

Oh and the tone and staging and surreal context of it make it seem like a farewell despite her literal words. She definitely knew she COULD die at the very least and felt the need to enter Cloud’s brain for a goodbye

6 is fucking terrible. An unself-aware childish fantasy story packed full of cliches, bland characters I couldn't give a single fuck about and gameplay that's broken beyond belief. My whole playthrough was nothing but an overwhelming feeling of secondhand embarrassment at what kind of manchild you would need to be to actually think it's good.

those things are cliche because of Final Fantasy 6.

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeinfeldIsUnfunny

retarded nigger

No. I think it’s the hipster choice but no

Few people seem to consider what it'd be like going from V to VI in Japan. Almost all job aspects were tossed out after such advancement for character-specific roles like IV again, customization was entirely left to the Espers, the story became far more of a focus compared to V's gameplay focus, the Crystals were tossed out altogether unless you count the Espers' contained forms, and so on.

It's always "VI to VII" but VI started the trend of a radical upheaval.

the cyberpunk setting was considered a nice change of pace and there had been technology in the past FF games as well. You get a spaceship in ff4 and in ff6 there is the whole steam punk magitech thing going on. The pre rendered back grounds could be a pain to move around on but were considered beautiful at the time and the only way to achieve those kind of looks. I am not really sure what you mean by big action set pieces. If you mean pre rendered cutscenes that was new but really the only way to achieve those kind of graphics reasonably. yeah games like Metal Gear did some really nice in game cut scenes but if they tried that on ff7 the game would be like 8 discs long. Other than that you read the story just like before.

the real piece of shit that changed the franchise was FF10. No world map and all you do is constantly move north. God awful voice acting and the MC Tidus looks like ass. The story was also kind of stupid but they did something different at least. Of course FF10's transgressions were nothing compared to FF12,s garbage battle system. I mean the old battle system wasn't exactly great but it got the job done while 12's was just complete ass. Vaan was also just pure yaoi fan bait. Then 13 came out with a decent battle system and a decent story but the rest was awful. They threw this battle system away too for the warping in ff15. Square needs to stop trying to reinvent the fucking wheel here and go back to ATB or tweak the 13 system a bit.

>If internet boards were comparable to today's
They weren't. But also, the western FF fan base at the time was dwarfed by the influx of newfags that bought 7 because of its massive marketing campaign. Even my ex-convict cousin played it. JRPGs were still struggling to find their audience in the west before then. You had some magazine writers who gushed over FF3(6) like Jeff Lundrigan, but it hadn't become mainstream yet. FF7 was the breakthrough.

Well, 2 did if you want to be technical.

Fair enough.

I wouldn't say it was self-aware. It had its issues, but that is not one of them.

>all you do is move North

Holy shit, this is true

They do like 5 a lot in Japan, and they’re right to.

Based.

because you have literally no idea what you are talking about.
you are still a fetus

A lot of people say that "well but it was a different time", but I feel that's a bad way of seeing it, we're not in the late 90s anymore, it's 2019.

A good game is a good game, that's that, it shouldn't need any excuses.

Good argument

Duality of man

Honestly this, anyone who says FF7 is a bad game is an automatic contrarian in my book. Sure, it may not be your favorite, but to have the audacity to say its bad just makes you look like a retard or an attention whore.

I appreciate that I can reply to these fossils of posts in the current year.

People got used to change slowly though ff6, and most people who played ff7 did not play the previous games

I hate all the futuristic final fantasies except 7.

I don’t count ff6 as futuristic, so l don’t need to make an exception due to me liking it.

Too bad no one will ever see your posts. The only people who still post on Usenet are those who pay for NNTP accounts. September finally ended when ISPs pulled the plug on their freely-included news servers. It takes some doing for a random Google user to stumble into alt.fan.karl-malden.nose.

>he thinks Midgar wasn't the GOAT opening stage
The game objectively goes to shit once you leave Midgar and takes almost the rest of disc one to even get close. Mini-games were fun though.

Aren't VII, XIII and XV the only futuristic final fantasies? I don't count the MMOs.

He's right, cope.

Eh, saying its a bad game is too much that's got sure but I wouldn't really call it a good game either. It's a really middling kind of game that was popular more due to hype than anything.

Man I remember thinking this was cool as fuck when I was a kid, but what even was the point of a stationary gun that couldn't be pointed anywhere else?

I played the game serveral times... and am just now noticing this myself. That guy is right, every area in the game has you going north... every fucking one of them now that I think about it.

>Too bad no one will ever see your posts
I wouldn't dream of spoiling them anyway. The old internet is incredibly interesting to read. I feel like what current underageb&s must feel like when us "boomers" talk about things that happened when a classic game from our era was released. I was only 10 when a lot of those threads were made.

If 15 is futuristic so is 7. The MMOs are both fantasy, and they are fine.

Good news is that 16 is said to going to be a fantasy game, hopefully we get a full classic final fantasy HD experience with a job-system and a light hearted adventure.

Sorry man, I just dont think the vast majority can agree with you. At least you arent being douchy about it, but it probably has the most beloved (and best) rpg cast out there and solid gameplay story etc. Especially for its time.

>classic final fantasy HD experience with a job-system and a light hearted adventure
Good one user.

Why do people think VII is even futuristic? It's all diesel punk oil and gas shit. Most of the aesthetic is some weird 1940s/1950s shit. Even the rockets and space shit are all 1960s.

People didn't know back then that you could say games were shit

>Similar amount of time to ff13.
How fucking long did it take you to get out of Midgard?

It's because of the big ass Trump wall and the big ass platforms above the slums.

Because it was one of the first massive 3d jrpgs.
I actually played this on my uncle's ps1 when it came out and I was still a little shit and it blew me away, having previously only known 2d/sprite base games.

He died a month ago. RIP.

>futuristic setting
I'm pretty sure 6 also had a futuristic setting, and people loved that one.

>I just dont think the vast majority can agree with you
Why would I need the majority to agree?

7 isn't even futuristic. Think about the overall level of technology. Cars and trains. Flight seems somewhat established, but only rudimentary prop planes, helicopters, and dirigibles. The space project failed, but color television exists. If it weren't for all the Shinra murderbots, it would look like it was set in the 60s-70s.

Well it had high tech planet killing reactors and a megacity built on tall supports. Also color TVs everywhere which is like 70s-80s.

FF7 doesnt really have any political themes that match todays climate... why would you even mention Trump?

People who were fans of rpgs *did* complain about 7. That FF6 was the 'real' ff game before it became mainstream.

Shinra made a big, strong, viable fighting gundam mecha. Also Cait Sith, a Shinra-made puppet, is so advanced that despite being a manmade creation it can get strong enough to fight a potential god.

Man, the old school FF fans hated the move to 3D. Even though I thought FF7 did a good job bridging the divide, the way the characters were animated very similarly to the sprites in 6. They showed that same style of expressiveness.

Every nintendofag at the time i knew openly lamented nintendos decision to go with the cartridges.
To openly gimp your system for a couple of bucks more per game sold is just retarded.

it just shows boomer's shit taste

> If internet boards were comparable to today's

They absolutely were not

>But fallout 3 has absolutely not been seen to hold up. 7 mostly does.
How so? FF7 was already dated at the time of its release. Consider:

Final Fantasy 7, Japan release date 1997
>low-quality midi music
>no voice acting whatsoever, characters don't even grunt when taking damage
>polygonal character models that are primitive and lacking in detail, even by the standards of the time
>invisible random encounters
>environments are static and small 2d backgrounds
>combat uses the same simplistic menu-based systems as previous games in the series

Grandia, Japan release date 1997
>a beautifully rich fully orchestral score
>characters are voiced during combat and key story moments
>detailed and expressive character sprites
>enemies are visible during exploration
>exploration takes place in sprawling 3D environments
>combat too utilizes a 3D battlefield, with an innovative turn-based combat system that takes into account factors like distance, range and timing of your attacks

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>bragging about using CDs when Square only used them for stuffing them with non-interactive cutscenes
Making movie games is really worth bragging about?

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I just felt like describing that big beautiful wall around midgar that way.

>futuristic setting
This was a topic. But mostly people were concerned that it wouldn't feel like Final Fantasy and when it came out, it undeniably did, so it wasn't an issue.
>focus on le big action set pieces
Nobody criticized this outside maybe the excessive length of the Summon Animations. If you mean the cutscenes, also nobody complained because it was one of the first games to ever do it on this scale. The cutscenes in FF7 are also well paced compared to games that came later.
>pre rendered background that make movement a pain.
Nobody complained about this. The beautifully detailed prerendered backgrounds were praised heavily and the feel of the gameplay still felt very much like traditional Final Fantasy in the way you moved about the environments.
>similar amount of time to ff13 (which everyone did complain about) before game world opens up.
The world starts opening up gradually after you leave Midgar. The world-tour is linear but you get vehicles and such to backtrack and this is consistent with the design of previous games, it just took a lot longer to get there. So people didn't really complain.
>Somehow worse version of atb.
Hardcore analysis of the ATB wasn't too common. You might see some complaints about the 3 party member limitation but overall people were happy with the ATB implementation. It wasn't until FF8 and FF9 that people started getting tired of the PSX-era implementation of ATB (FF9's is particularly awful).

>no voice acting whatsoever
zoomer detected

Sort of, but not right away. There were criticisms of FF7 to be sure, and many people still liked 6 better. But retard contrarianism wasn't as common then as it is now so most FF6 fans just enjoyed FF7 for what it was and debated the finer points with other fans.

I'd be more okay with lengthy animations if we were given the option to just skip all of them.

FF6 is a steampunk-like setting. It's got a 19th century feel.
FF7 is a fully modern/slightly futuristic (for 1997) setting with cell phones and computers and helicopters and shit.

>ff12 battle system
youtube.com/watch?v=mtBVldLtvD0
It gets even worse once you setup up the gambits.

why the fuck is the brady guide so expensive

>zoomer detected
What are you talking about? Almost every game from the mid-90's onwards had voice acting. Even games that didn't have a cinematic storytelling focus at all, unlike FF7.

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Voice acting killed the series anyway

Imagine not being a gamer in the SNES/PSX days

God I feel bad for zoomers, everything about our current world sucks

To be honest cartridges were the least of N64's problems, given that it was "powerful" but also a fucking designer's nightmare to work with. Even with solid emulation the damn thing can opt to be finicky as hell. Nintendo also tried to amend the problem with the 64DD, but surprise surprise it sold like garbage so basically nothing came out for it.

And ff5 fans were like, “nuh uh”

And 4 fans were like, “how is it roleplaying if you can just be whatever?”

Magitek.

>Started playing the game two days ago
>tfw stealing on literally every enemy i encounter
I just can't stop.
I already got a Goodass sword for Cloud in the Shinra building and a super glove for Tifa in the mines.

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>Voice acting killed the series anyway

>complaining about voice acting that makes up a fraction of the budget
>not complaining about the 100+ million dollar spent on lavish cinematics and beautiful corridors

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Back in the day this was more seen in terms of an alternating design philosophy.
3 and 5 were job-system games. 7 is best seen as an evolution to 5 in terms of its progression system. People think of Materia like Espers but mechanically it is much more like a tweak on the job system, that allows for multiple party member swapping without losing out on earned abilities as it would in FF5's version.
4 and 6 were "one character, one job" games.

IV is where FF started making stories are dumb as possible while also giving them a lot more focus. Fans of IV are so braindead they should just be ignored.

I’m also not the guy you were replying to. It’s just dumb to chide a game for not including something that has had a dubious effect on rpgs and its series in particular

- It really wasn't that futuristic
- ?
- They looked great and movement was fine
- The game opens up as soon as one leaves Midgar
- It uses ATB

Uhhhh its exactly like 6

10 was great
voice acting, good animation for the time, sphere grid, minigames everywhere, lots to accomplish at endgame

10 was the last great FF; the beginning of the end.
The departure in gameplay since and focus on graphics over everything has just nosedived the series for me.
With ff7re seemingly using a modified ff15 engine, I have low hopes for the future and franchise as a whole.

There is literally nothing wrong with beautiful, super expensive cutscenes.
Somebody needs to be a trailblazer.
youtube.com/watch?v=WgVnds4gW3s

i feel like im one of the few that hates the high fantasy setting. i prefer futuristic rpgs.

Cellular phones existed in 1997, as did computers and helicopters.

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Because most FF7 fans weren't FF fans at all, there were a lot of grognards complaining about this shit back then. It's just not recorded forever like post-internet reality is.
Fun fact: FF9 was supposed to be the "return to form" for us grognards and it was just retarded Dragonball Z furry bullshit. I should've dropped Square back then but it took me a few more years.

yeah, but Amano is based. Anyone who doesn't want him back is retarded. Just fucking look at Angel's Egg.

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My point is there are always tradeoffs with rpg systems. 9 tried both and I think you end up with people who suck at their jobs for a fair stretch of the game

>Futuristic setting already started with 6
No it didn't. 6 just wasn't a medieval setting, it was a steam-era setting.
Note that all Final Fantasy games had sci-fi "futuristic" elements but that doesn't necessarily define the setting itself. FF4 is a medieval setting despite the fact that you have spaceships and some advanced technology.

>pre rendered background that make movement a pain.
You don't really understand, this was technology.
THIS WAS THE FUTUUUUURE.

It was the same shit then that VR fags jerk themselves off over now. Except VR is a straight downgrade until hardware catches up in power:size ratio. We've long since reached the end of diminishing returns as far as graphic fidelity so you can't exactly impress people with things like increased polycounts or texture resolution to the standard gamer, although average joe consumer might fall for it.
At least until we somehow breach 4th dimensional gaming.

>the beginning of hallway hell
>retarded story
>characters are either shallow, unlikable, or both
>an absolutely awful english dub
At least the battle system was good.

yes, that's literally why I called the setting modern and "maybe slightly futuristic".

In 1997, it didn't make you 'cool' to endlessly bitch about how everything that exists is shit. Neither SJWs nor their /pol/tard horsehsoe-counterparts were really a thing back then.

T'was a nobler, more enlightened time.

There just is no job identity with the materia system.
With everything being swappable at any time with no penalty, you lose out on a lot of character identity. Limit breaks and base stats are the only things contributing to any sort of class.
Sure, you used aeris to heal, but does that make her a healer? It was easy enough to put heals on every party member if you wanted.

How many times are you going to post this shit?

It’s true though. You have to understand the times under which a game released to understand why it has they legacy it has. FFVII did a lot of new things and things that were never done as well as that game did it at the time, which stuck with people who were there to play it or watch its cultural influence. Looking at it now, 20 years removed from the release of the game is not going to be a good way of understanding why its held to such a high regard. Does it hold up to games that have come after it? No, other games have done it better, but those games couldn’t necessarily happen without FFVII’s influence, same story with why Ocarina of Time and Mario 64 are held up.

Yeah, 9's system honestly wasn't very good. Although I don't know if that's purely because it was a poorly implemented system, or if it's exacerbated by the fact that battles are an absolute slog and the screen transitions for battles alone eat up an extra minute of time every single battle.

>pre rendered background that make movement a pain.
to be frank a big part of that mobility issue was 4 directions on a d-pad and characters moving by camera angle. if FF7 had tank controls it would probably have more people bitching nowadays, and the angles didn't switch like Resident Evil did, but it was more of a controller limitation rather than strictly pre-rendered causing control issues.

there's no way in hell all of FF7 could've been full 3D in its day and age

>I was a feeble baby at the time so by the time I heard of FF7 all I knew is that people said it was the greatest game ever, then I played it for the first time a few years ago and hated everything but the music.
That's your answer, bud. It wasn't a revalvent part of your childhood. Majority of the people who praise it probably watched an older siblib play it and thought it was the coolest shit ever. That and 4 disc was pretty impressive if you weren't used to pc gaming. That alone gave the impression it's a massive world. We never even made it to the second disc because it was horribly scratched but it's still a cherished memory.

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It really is. FF6 is like a prototype of 7. 6 just had kingdoms and castles that burrow under the desert so it somehow gets a pass as "medieval" even though you're piloting exosuit bipedal armor the instant the game starts.

Are you Me?

I'm honestly glad VII Remake existing managed to cut down on the constant circle jerk FFVI got, I love the game but it's nowhere near as flawless as it's painted to be ESPECIALLY when it comes to its cast.

I don't care about that, I'm playing the game now, not "back then"

>IV is where FF started making stories are dumb as possible while also giving them a lot more focus.
>Fans of IV are so braindead they should just be ignored.
How do you reconcile your post with the fact that the most popular hack of FFIV removes the story entirely?
FFIV is a great game. And even in the original version the story doesn't get in the way nearly as badly as later games. You'll have 1-2 minutes of cutscenes for every 30 minutes of gameplay, and the game itself is only 20 hours long.

People who burned out or people who didn't grow up in past gens have no idea that Square was a fucking monster, hell all the major studios were. This is the era of Square that released hit after hit, made a shmup, a fighting a game, a puzzle game and all of them were interesting. Where at its worse with the inter-release fighting fans of one FF vs another say that the other is mediocre. It's an era where games were at their best and it isn't boomer nostalgia, it's because the major developers for the most part could do no wrong. Capcom, Square, Nintendo, SEGA, Treasure, Lucas Arts, Enix, Konami, even the companies that became EA, Epic, Valve, Blizzard and so on were just monsters that released hit after hit. Sure there was shovelware trash from no names or movie tie in games, but the industry was so hard carried by its endless hits that it didn't matter.

Compare it to the cynical few good releases and coin flip if you get fucked in the ass by microtransactions or "re-innovation" we have now. NES - PS2 gens were just so good and it's a shame it'll never be that balanced and fresh of a industry.

>yet another retard who can't tell the difference between a steam/19th century fantasy setting and a modern one

>lmao why didn't King Henry V just nuke the French during the Battle of Agincourt in 1415
Just stop playing old games my dude.

The setting for FF7 was heavily 90s. There was only a slight 40s aesthetic scattered around in very specific places (like cars), that was more of a spice to give the setting a certain flair if anything to give the setting an extra little slight twist. Otherwise it was basically 90s Europe, Japan and America but futuristic.

If that is all you care about, then you and others shouldn’t ask questions like
>why did it sell so well?
>why did people like it instead of being alienated by it?
>isn’t this game overrated?

Blizzard had a fantastic reputation until Activision took over. One reason why World of Warcraft was as successful as it was is because Blizzard was making it and they always made good shit.

I can hope...

Also gotta love how calling your party together to switch up your party was literally with a cellphone, or some equivalent thereof. Then Advent Children comes around and everyone's carrying the latest modern flip phones at the time in blatant advertising and it gets kind of weird.

The remake is specifically to cater to you kids, btw.
You're the one they're trying to entice by making it look like 15.

If you have hope for anything Square-Enix is developing, you're probably underage.

But user, Advent Children doesn't exist

>I’m also not the guy you were replying to. It’s just dumb to chide a game for not including something that has had a dubious effect on rpgs and its series in particular
What dubious effect does voice acting have on rpgs? Again, almost all rpgs (and games in general) from the mid-90's onward have voice acting, so by that logic most of those are bad rpgs and bad games.

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The slowness of the game makes everything harder and saps patiencs, definitely

VII and IX were both pretty good about making Stealing worthwhile.

The thread is about the impact it had at the time and OP wondered why it didnt alienate people

What other games do it better? That’s the thing with older games, so many later games fail to capture the same experience. What would you recommend?

>worthwhile
Yes
>fun
God no, stealing was a fucking mistake

Dragon Quest 11 was good, and the FF14 a Realm Reborn shows some hope for a single-player game

Top shitpost. I'd explain why every single one of those "points" you think you made is wrong, but you want somebody to waste his time telling you how retarded you are, and I refuse to play into your hands.

some people are incapable of happiness.

For me the smoking gun is how 7 comes up more often and on its own while 6 is brought up as the “alternative” usually

I like some old games and I dislike some old games, I just think it's arbitrary that just because something is old is has some holy aura that makes it better than it actually is

It's just a game, the release date is irrelevant IMO

I'm not op

Fuck you, RS 2 is a good game, Parasite eve is a good game, FF7 is boring shit

Pretty sure its original purpose before WEAPON was to shoot the crap out of Wutai.

6 and ct are the pinnacle of the 2d jrpg.
7 is just the introduction of 3d.

The defining moment of 6 for me was the 3-branch party split and eventual reunion
That it could be played in any order you wished was fantastic, and it really allowed for some individual character exposition.

I love both games, but I hate remakes. At least ff7re is essentially going to be a brand new game gameplay-wise.

Ask Elder Scrolls fans for a clue

>Simply said, stop evaluating retro games with modern standards.
>This shit will never end.
it all depends on the discussion you want to have.
If you just want to evaluate the raw quality of a game, or decide what to play next, use either modern standards or the best timeless standards you can come up with. (Modern standards have a strong tendency to confuse quality with fashion).

But if you want to understand the history of the industry and of games as a whole it's helpful to understand them in their original context. You also might discover modern mistakes doing an exercise like this. Maybe the standards "back then" are better in some ways than the standards now and thinking about it that way helps you to discover shortcomings in modern fashion.

Not either of those guys you were replying to but personally I blame voice acting on the general illiteracy problem these days. SNES RPGs helped teach me to read because I wanted to know what was going on. I know this probably has nothing to do with it but damn.
Also voice acting budgets really cut into other areas of development. It's absurd how much that shit runs even when you consider the amount of money that gets poured into modern gaming it's crazy to think about how people get paid so much because they have a name people recognize. Biggest example would be Patrick Stewart's fat check for Oblivion, wonder how much Keifer got for MGSV.

Curious what the other guy's opinions on it are.

DQXI's leveling system and battles were polished and quite good. The story and characters are a complete mishmash of references and carbon copies from earlier in the series though, it being the big nostalgia celebration made it a pretty weak entry in terms of everything but gameplay.

>Honestly this, anyone who says FF7 is a bad game is an automatic contrarian in my book
>WAAAAAAH PEOPLE DARE GO AGAINST THE MAJORITY
Tell me why FFVII is a such good game then, because as somebody who played it back in the days I still don't see it.

if only FF6 didn't have such broken gameplay mechanics. FF4, FF5, and FF7 are all superior to FF6 in terms of their basic gameplay systems.

Movement was garbage

Key word being if genius

>What other games do it better?

Labyrinth of touhou 1 & 2 both use ATB way better than any FF.
Saga games in general have WAY better mechanics than any FF.
And while story is really subjective, I think both Rance 6 & Sengoku have a more interesting story
SF 2, LoM, and basically any game made after it look better

It moves up and down!

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well steal-stalling essentially forces an (optional) entirely new way to play an encounter.
Same thing as draw-stalling.
It'd be nice if there were more optional incentivized ways to play normal combats to make them feel like less of a chore.

Also reminded that FF games don't have a "hard mode" apart from intentional self-gimping.

>chased by 2 women

why do I get the impression that they only played till just after leaving midguar?

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Yeah, you don't even get an opportunity to break FF7 until big guard and the powersoul midway through disc 1. And then after that you have to wait all the way until w-item duping, kotr vincent mug glitch, and overflow in the end of disc 2/disc 3 and by that time the powersoul becomes pretty underwhelming when compared to yuffie's conformer which does just as much damage without all the conditions.

Brave New World. Ignore the Slim Jims and Red Bull, focus on how literally everything else is fixed.

Uh that webm shows that it actually does move side to side too.

>Not either of those guys you were replying to but personally I blame voice acting on the general illiteracy problem these days. SNES RPGs helped teach me to read because I wanted to know what was going on. I know this probably has nothing to do with it but damn.

This makes no sense. Video games are hardly a substitute for literature. If anything, having voices to go along with the text would help you learn English better.

The most literary RPG ever made, Planescape: Torment, has voice acting.

Voice acting isn't just about story, it also serves an important gameplay function. Take for example, Baldur's Gate, released around the same time as FF7. you can predict what spells the enemy will cast by listening to the words they are chanting. In Baldur's Gate party members that are low on health will cry out for help, they will let out a cheer when striking a critical hit. They have hundreds of unique voice-acted lines for different gameplay situations. Not only does this greatly enhance the audiovisual experience of playing the game and provide valuable combat information, but it also helps a great deal to flesh out the party members and give them distinct voices.

All of this is completely absent in FF7, where characters don't even grunt when taking damage.

>Biggest example would be Patrick Stewart's fat check for Oblivion, wonder how much Keifer got for MGSV.
That's like saying ambulances are bad because cars accidents happen. Two examples of badly managed VO don't prove anything.

Besides, you're making this argument in the context of Final Fantasy, a series famous for spending tens of millions on extremely high production values, cinematics and graphics. Voice acting is pocket change compared to that.

By your logic, modern games should still be using NES graphics.

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There's that one broken ass highway early in the game, it was a long vertical section and even with the pointers on I had to look up how to get through it because I couldn't walk on shit I thought I could and parts that didn't even look like road was traversable

not that guy
but 6 has some serious fucking issues with balance and is easily the worst SNES game in that respect. FF6 is a fine game so long as you play in a strictly casual, challenge-free manner. (FF4 and FF5 do not have this issue)

When did I say you did?

Retarded frogposter pasta

Also side to side, as seen at 13 seconds in your webm.
Not sure about once it's installed at Midgar though.

Never said I didn't play those, also not a zoomer. I actually played a lot of 2d rpgs (snes & otherwise) before FF7.

people were actually playing the games instead of spending days on an anonymous image board talking about how bad the games they're not playing are

>but 6 has some serious fucking issues with balance
True. re:

I've played almost all the Final Fantasy games now, thanks to the wonders
of emulation, ;) and have been playing RPG's for many years.. and I definitely
think FF VII is my favorite. :) However, it is true that FF VII was the first
RPG to get such a *huge* response, at least here in America, where it used to
be just a little niche market. Before, you had to really like RPG's to bother
playing them at all, but now, it's actually possible for more annoying
mainstream people to get interested in Final Fantasy, and there are suddenly a
lot of "fans" out there that we aren't used to... fans that didn't save up for
these expensive, hard-to-find and not-that-popular games from the past, but are
hooked by the nifty graphics and Tifa and so on. ;)

You're still at it WRPG-Kun?
How many times do I have to remind you to kill yourself?

How is that not role-playing? You're playing something that you aren't

LoT2 doesn't use ATB, It's more closely related to Chrono Cross's delay system in which each character's speed gets added to the turn "bar" every time someone performs an action. It's still turn based. I'm playing it right now
Kinda semi-ATB I guess?
Either way this game was made well over a decade after FF7 so i'd fucking hope it does ATB better.

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Because it was released on a platform with no prior FF titles, and said platform went on to draw tons of new people into video games. FF7 was marketed comparatively heavily at the time, and said time was such that things from Japan were seen as cool and quirky.

>Brave New World
>literally everything else is fixed.
Fuck you buddy

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So dq11 is actually good gameplay wise?
I haven't played past the tutorial zone on hard mode, might have to give it another go.

>where characters don't even grunt when taking damage.
you have some kind of weird fetish about this christ.
I don't like voice acting in games and I'd prefer if Baldur's Gate used some other mechanism to signal spell casts. And really, spell casting dialog is more properly thought of as a sound-effect. Characters grunting is also a sound-effect, not voice acting.

If you want to do a comprehensive criticism of sound design in FF7 OK but calling it dated just because it doesn't jump on the voice-acting bandwagon is dumb. Not every game needs voice acting in fact many games would be way better off without it.

>>similar amount of time to ff13 (which everyone did complain about) before game world opens up.
Because in this space of time it introduced an interesting world, story and characters you gave a shit about, which 13 couldn't achieve in its full 60 hours of gameplay.

>By your logic, modern games should still be using NES graphics.
Some games do, on purpose, for various reasons.
But no it's not the same because graphics are always essential voice acting is not.

I could see older millennials and Gen Xers not liking 7, compared to a lot of early 90s WRPGs there is a shocking lack of freedom in terms of what you can actually do in the game. Really though I think the plot, characters, and excellent pacing of FF7 do make up for the lack of freedom and I enjoy the game a lot, but I could see like old school Daggerfall virgins hating it.

Contrarian.

The weird thing about FF7 is just how contemporary some of its design was. FF8 was a hybrid sci-fi, 13 was crazy ass sci-fi with fantasy mixed in, and 15 was just a lot of rural America with fantasy and a big italian/greece city slapped into it. Meanwhile 7 has this grunge symbolic of the 90's, of things that look plausibly functional without having to be over the top, while still maintaining its own style. Different regions have different styles, like how Wutai is basically commercialized Japan, or how the natives still got shit kicking in Cosmo Canyon and Fort Condor. Some areas are medieval fantasy, while other places of large commerce or high on Shinra business are far more wealthy and stand out. It's like seeing part of a natural world and the other part is modern consumerism and commercialization turning things into a conflicting new era while still being relatable about it in design.

I got a vr headset for the first time a few months ago, and while I think it's really cool, I also think it's not that good.
Like I understand nostalgia for shit, but a lot of things that are "cool" are also clearly just not great. I guess I don't understand why others can't make that distinction

final fantasy 5 didnt get ported to the west until 2 years after 7 came out in the anthology pack bundled with 6

yeah the problem with Brave New World is that in order to fix the issues he has to make a bunch of arbitrary creative decisions that do more than just "fix" the game.

It's a pretty well polished turn-based system; buffs are very important and status effects can be useful at times. Don't set expectations too hi though, by the end of the game it's still more a matter of finding what gives you the biggest numbers and repeating it rather than actual strategy. The leveling chart was also a solid addition, although it was too readily obvious that one particular path through the chart was much better than the others for every character. The nice thing is that if you feel the need to grind later on, the grinding process is greatly expedited instead of being a pretty bad slog like previous DQ entries, even though the story is pretty thoroughly mediocre at best.

Story is what I mean. Not a turn based connoisseur

I know, it's just the first thing it came to mind, But I still think it's just better execution of the same system
The game is great tho, I hope you're enjoying it

What u experienced with FF7 was a very clear frustration with how the game played. I'm not even trying to be picky analysis YouTuber about this game. I just don't get it

Throughout history people learn to read by NOT reading great literature as kids...

Role playing in its mlst classic d&d inspired sense implies tradeoffs while a system like 5, for some, ends up with hybrid builds

I don’t mind that but it’s always possible to criticize something

T. Brainlet

>And really, spell casting dialog is more properly thought of as a sound-effect. Characters grunting is also a sound-effect, not voice acting.
Okay? Baldur's Gate has plenty of actual voiced dialogue though, not just grunts.

Also, you can identify what spell is being cast because you can make out the individual words. That's not really a sound effect.

>If you want to do a comprehensive criticism of sound design in FF7 OK but calling it dated just because it doesn't jump on the voice-acting bandwagon is dumb.
FF7 not having voice acting is particularly weird because it did jump on the 'cinematic storytelling' and 'pre-rendered cinematics' bandwagon.

"akaroth
6/29/98
Usually, when I talk about FF7, it's usually to compare it to FF6, which
I've always felt was a superior game. Just recently, someone talking
about Aeris's theme made me remeber some of the more powerful parts of
FF7, so I downloaded the MP3s of Aeris's theme and One Winged Angel
(final boss music in FF7). I didn't expect it, but Aeris's Theme made me
want to cry, and OWA sounded incredibly good - better than it ever had.

While I still can't say I liked the game better than FF6, it's a
phenominal piece of work. It uses every element of storytelling possible
- music, visuals, text and interactivity - and tells a beautiful tale the
likes of which are very rarely seen.. well, anywhere. It is, in many
ways, a landmark for the PC, not because it's a console RPG port but
because it's the first PC game where you are given this kind of
experience. In Quake II, you kill the Strogg leader because.. well, to
save earth, etc. You fight and kill your friends repeatedly because..
it's a game, and it's fun. In FFVII, you fight Sephiroth because you
care about the characters and want them to live. You fight to protect a
world you have come to care for. The visuals, music and even gameplay
all become secondary - FFVII stimulates your emotions.
I think the reason I'm posting this is because FFVII is a truly, truly
incredible game. I'm not sure how it's reception has been since it was
released on the PC, besides people finding it incredibly buggy. But if
you were disenheartened by the demo, or even terribly frustrated by the
full, it might be worth a second chance, because it really is a gaming
experence worth having.

For those interested:

Aeris's Theme -
square.simplenet.com/uss/ff7/sounds/mp3/003.mp3

One Winged Angel -
square.simplenet.com/uss/ff7/sounds/mp3/047.mp3

--

akaroth

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world.""

>Video games are hardly a substitute for literature.
FF7 helped me to learn how to start reading at an advanced level for a 4-5 year old kid, got me started on RPGs and action-adventure games that I was always at least a grade ahead of most of my peers in English. In hindsight, though, that may have also contributed to awkward sentence structuring and the occasional fucked up contractions.

>- It really wasn't that futuristic
A moot point because you can clearly see that having any modern/post-modern setting completely contrasts with the aesthetics of Final Fantasy as a series.
It still is a non historical inspired FF setting, lacking the castles and kings that made FF 6 a little more similar to the high-fantasy games in the series.
While FF7 itself was very good, it did inspire the sci-fi cancer to the series which eventually almost completely removed the identity and constancy within the series, thus really making Final Fantasy more of a name than a true series. I mean you can compare similar aspects of ff7 to ff1 despite the high-fantasy setting and modern-setting, same can't be said with 13 or 15 to one aside from some arbitrary little traditions like the monsters - you can't even say airships because the airship is a car not a ship and flying over the overworld exists in DQ as well. It also made it possible for SE to even consider that The Spirits Within should carry the FF name, despite having nothing to do with the series at all.
FF7 itself was really good, but its influence on the series was terrible - and that includes the change of aesthetics from Amano to Nomura. Amano was part of the FF identity, Nomura did a good job for FF7 I must admit and I wouldn't change it but it really impacted the identity of the series and diminished it.

Okay, guys, this is the third post not realizing I am just stating you can always find a flaw or tradeoff with a progression system

For all its flaws this game was too beautiful for me to not love.

>Seriously? If internet boards then were comparable to today's autistic contrarian hipster faggots when 7 came out

fucking ftfy cunt. There is your answer. There is why we liked it.

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>That's like saying ambulances are bad because cars accidents happen. Two examples of badly managed VO don't prove anything.
Not a very good analogy, it's be more closely related to "why are we still paying for ambulances when people only get hurt inside the hospital?"
Games were playable before full voice acting, didn't require extra hoops and more money spent, didn't increase the overall install size of everything, honestly I can't find that much good full voice acting has brought to gaming in general aside from me hearing my VA waifu in a couple of games (mmmm hanakana).

>Voice acting is pocket change compared to that.
Voice acting is also budget that could have gone elsewhere, I can even use a modern example of FF14 where Naoki Yoshida constantly talks about "hey we were able to afford voicing this entire cutscene line now we're sorry we can't get every cutscene because of limitations prease understand"

>By your logic, modern games should still be using NES graphics.
Not at all what I was saying, improved graphics provide a LOT more to gaming as a whole than just eye candy. People arguing about how janky FF7's pre-rendered backgrounds being difficult to navigate is already enough of an argument I dont need to repeat it. I dont neccesarily agree it was difficult, but it is an issue that many people had. I do think we need to focus less on MUH TEXTURE RESOLUTION/POLYCOUNT since we're really pushing the limits of diminishing returns here.

Yeah its fucking amazing, would recommend even to non-touhou fans. All the character diversity and playstyles is just fantastic.

7 has cinematica but not that many, far fewerthan the series would be known for. And the pre-rendered was a stylistic choice.

>How is that not role-playing? You're playing something that you aren't
The whole idea behind an RPG is not being able to do everything and having to make lasting and permanent choices on how to customize your character.

Not that Final Fantasy ever handled that well, even when they did have restrictions on what characters could learn.

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It's not a bad game though. It's just by no means the best FF game. But it's a great game.

its worth playing, just don't expect to care about the plot until part 2 otherwise you will get bored looking for the wrong things in the game. Just take part 1 as a comfy adventure with your friends, intervened with little stories.

As if they don't market all over the place. FF7 was the beginning of EA, Ubisoft, Activision Blizzard cancer-tier practices.

You are a idiot this is generation x the game

This is like saying nirvana appealed to no one in the 90s

>7 has cinematica but not that many, far fewerthan the series would be known for.
You seem to be only counting the CG scenes as cutscenes. FF7 has 10+ hours of in-engine cutscenes.

I* not u

Sure, would never assert that its objectively the best, but it certainly isnt bad.

When you have a good game like FF7 you don't need to defend, justify or shit on anything.

Yuna literally tells you why Blitzball is allowed. It's their only form of entertainment so people use it to cope with all the death and grief of Sin and life. It's literally why we use entertainment, and why the poorest countries play sports.

>21 year old mp3 links are dead
well shit i should've expected that

So you don't have any real arguments, like I thought.
I might be a "contrarian", but at least I have actual opinions.

Shit controls were hype in the 90s?

Shit controls compared to what

Oh yeah, I really liked the tension system from 8.
8 was one of my favorites in the series for sure.

The intro gave me some good vibes, but immediately after was an open-ish field full of too many monsters waiting around to die which immediately turned me off.

People talking about FF7 being too futuristic compared to the previous games.
Did you forget that Cecil's secret heritage is he is a fucking moon person and the end of FF4 involves you finding an ancient moon sage and flying a fucking spaceship to the moon to kill the big bad?

Exdeath's ghost hunting you with instant death spells as you go back and forth from the sealed chamber to reclaim the 12 legendary weapons was pure kino.

>FF7 is generation x the game
No it's an early-mid millennial game. Its prime target audience is basically just a few years older than the Ocarina of Time audience. FF7 was 10-16 while OoT is more 7-13.

THIS WASN'T SHIT CONTROLS IN THE 1990S THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF CHANGING.

IT IS WAY DIFFERENT THAN HOW EVERY SINGLE GAMES NOW A DAY FEELS SAME IN THE CONTROLS MAKING GAMES BORING.

THERE WAS A SENSE OF DISCOVERY WITH CONTROLS OF THE PAST WHICH IDIOTS LIKE YOU HAVE DESTROYED

YOU MIGHT THINK THEY ARE SHIT BUT PEOPLE WHO GREW UP WITH THE GAME CAN PLAY IT JUST FINE.

MAYBE IT'S A PROBLEM WITH YOU.

good games

Biggest problem with FF8 is the summons. They tried so hard to outdo the graphics of FF7 with bigger and better summons and it really hurts the gameplay to have to watch shiva float around and blow a blizzard out of her hands for 30 seconds every time you want to do big damage in a boss battle.
Also the junction system was bullshit grindy garbage.

Fuck yeah shinra tower has such great design. Really stand-out moment in the game.

zoomers just want to understand what they missed, but they can't possibly since the game has aged like milk. i think the best way for them to get in the proper mindset is to binge on SNES RPGs for a few months first and then do a full playthrough of FF7.

Name some, I'll give you an obscure freebie.

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Im saying the time piece is generation x not people who played it. I bet older played the game too

yet another person who confuses the presence of futuristic elements with a futuristic SETTING.
FF4 has a medieval setting. A few sci-fi elements does not make the setting a sci-fi setting.
In FF7, people have cell phones and TV sets. Houses have modern-looking upholstery and technology. There are roads and gas-powered cars.

The fact alone that you need to be educated about what is probably the most famous rpg in history is evidence enough that you dont give enough of a fuck to listen to me anyway. Go to any review site, not even Yea Forums collectively calls it shit.

To list the reasons why ff7 would be good would probably take me fucking hours, there are literally hundreds of reviews, articles, and videos giving fair enough credit to the game where its due. Sure there are plenty of people who suck its dick super hard, but the fact alone that you are gonna sit here around everyone and be like "WELL I THOUGHT IT WAS SHIT!" is kinda proof enough that you will stay closed minded about this no matter what.

Gameplay variety, still one of the best stories ever told in an rpg to this day, the most recognizable rpg cast of all time, a solid crack at open world for a 90s video game, very well drawn backgrounds and memorable character designs, some of the most timeless music in the medium, and a MASSIVE following that has still been playing the game 20+ years later. There are very few games that have had the staying power FF7 has, and if you are still going to act like its "bad" then like I said, you are just being a contrarian because you probably think DOOM, OoT, Halo:CE, Chrono Trigger, and Mario 64 are all bad games too.

Game is fine.

They are jealous they didn't go through that era.

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He is talking about Dragon Quest 8 not Final Fantasy

Because it was effectively the start of the lowest-common-denominator, big-budget AAA, normie-pandering shitfest that's rotted the hobby through today.

From ps1 dewprism and LoM Had more fun controls

The mecha make people see it as futuristic. Whatever you call it, it was pretty great and unique.

The 3D world in Threads of Fate was easier to navigate compared to the prerendered FF7 but holy shit that camera made me want to throw the controller quite often. Don't know about LoM.

Battle looks fine and I like EO
These games look like they ripped a little style

The navigation doesn't look cool either, what's up with the walking grid?
Also with no proper english port, I can't do it.

I like that the first place you go to after Midgar was a rural ass Chocobo farm.

what's shit about the controls?
do you even know what you're saying?
There's nothing wrong with the controls in ff7. Some of the maps have a few weird designs that make it hard for some to figure out but that is not "bad controls"

>I just think it's arbitrary
It’s not arbitrary. Older games that have a good legacy behind them are that way because of the impact they left on video game design. Most older games still have interest more as a historical object than a contemporary item to be consumed. Not asking you to love old games, just to understand that you are missing the point of why some older games are highly regarded by disregarding them because they don’t adhere to modern game design philosophies.

>open world
a-user, its time to stop posting

There's a pretty comprehensive english patch for it, the grid takes some getting used to but yeah there's no world map its strictly maze crawling battle fighting. It's a fairly mid-budget japanese indie game released at Comiket so it's quite impressive for what it was, lots of free sound library and music in it so that's kind of a bummer but still works.

Modern games are point a to b babysitting adventures with no freedom

Oh. DQ8 is awesome. Just had to have patience and take it all in. Also I'm so glad they didn't tone down the difficulty. Nice that you can actually die, especially early on.

Glad to see you know you are wrong.

>a solid crack at open world for a 90s video game

>open world
What open world? The game is completely on rails. And crack at what? You do realize open-world games like Ultima, Might and Magic, Elder Scrolls existed DECADES before FF7 came out?

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It's arbitrary since there are older games that are actually fun, it's just normies trying to mask nostalgia

Just like FF7

Not that guy, but my problem with the controls is back in the day you had 8-way movement and moved around the map with the d-pad. This was fucking awful in 3d, especially with the fixed camera angles making you run at weird angles.
The worst is when you are in a long hallway in FF7 that is slightly off of your axis, so you have to zig-zag down the hallway like some drunk fuck.

literally every FF game is scifi disguised as fantasy
FF1 was a fucking stable timeloop plot

Not in 3d they didnt.

They are talking about cg cutscenes. All FF games had cutscenes like you describe

Yeah, what he said. I hate it when people make half-backed arguments like this and look at specific things while looking at the wider thing around it. It is quite obvious that the problem is that they moved from a medieval setting to a highly different setting, ff6's 19th century setting worked because it was historical and they made it compatible to the medieval settings due to the castles, kingdoms and counts etc.

Decades? As in plural? are you retarded?

Okay, people here need to quit this. I am not confused why Blitzball is not illegal, I am saying the sport itself is dumb

>Not in 3d they didnt.
Elder Scrolls was 3D.

And FF7 isn't 3D, you retard. It uses 2d backgrounds for environments.

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user, I'm on board with your general point but good god please don't try to claim that FF7 is an "open world." It's a standard JRPG world. Yes it's fully open by the end of it, but that's no different than basically every Final Fantasy game before that. In fact, Final Fantasy 6 actually DID use an actual open-world design for the second half of the game.

Even modern open world games have this philosophy.

Its worse now because it is so blatant atleast in ff7 you had to figure things out.

Also ff7 was longer more creative harder and a bunch of more positives which modern games don't have

um I think you have me confused with someone else I never said FF7 was open world in fact I just refuted that guy in this post:

yeah there's a few sections where its annoying or unintuitive, but for the most part its fine.
Example sections would be getting on/off a ladder, or running into a new zone, only to immediately run back out because you were holding the intuitive "forward" direction, which is no longer forward.

Why did cringe replace the word gay.

Quit being a grandma

I wrote the last two oosts you reply to in that first part. That’s not quite right imo because the stuff in the early games was low key or tucked away toward the end

You can say you don’t appreciate the historical impact of some older games that don’t necessarily hold up today (Pong, for example, is boring to me, but I appreciate it for being the first video game), but you not liking that reason doesn’t make it arbitrary.

Come on son. The FF series always had a sci-fi tinge to it. Nothing is just straight magic and the plots are always about technology going too far and disrupting the natural balance. Which is more Blade Runner than Lord of the Rings. The other half is weird Japanese-looking monsters. But the weapons and armor, and some of the towns do generally look medieval.

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>futuristic setting
It was new and interesting at the time.
>focus on le big action set pieces
FF6 did this too. Remember the Opera? The big fight against Kefka and his troops? The entire WoR scene?
>pre rendered background that make movement a pain.
They look better than the old 2D stuff, which is all that mattered. They also added in a helper to show exits and ladders.
>similar amount of time to ff13 (which everyone did complain about) before game world opens up.
Uhh, no. It takes about 3-4 hours to leave midgar.
>Somehow worse version of atb.
It's literally better than every version before it.

You're right, I replied to the wrong post. Woops.

That tradition goes back to earlier computer rpgs. In Ultima 1 you had to buy a spaceship to go to the moon and in 3 you kill a computer with punchcards.
Then in all Final Fantasies you have the airships and stuff.
I always liked that, the old rpgs were almost never generic fantasy and had some kind of weirdness.

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Maybe the start of it, in terms of hyping up production values and cinematics. But no normie would ever sit through FF7's gameplay. That shit was a grind.

>Come on son. The FF series always had a sci-fi tinge to it. Nothing is just straight magic and the plots are always about technology going too far and disrupting the natural balance. Which is more Blade Runner than Lord of the Rings.

>t. never read Lord of the Rings
Did you miss the entire subplot in Lord of the Rings about how Saruman's technology was destroying the natural environment, to the point that Saruman ends up overtaking the Shire and industrializing it.

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FF5 opens up into an open world after you get to the merged world as well. You can travel anywhere in the airship to sidequest for the final summons and spells and finish the last 4 dungeons in any order you wish.

>FF
>Open world
>tl:dr; It's good because lotsa people and "critics" say so
You're an idiot, you literally confessed you don't have any real argument.
And no, I don't think Doom, OoT or Mario 64 are bad games, Mario 64 is wildly overrated, but it's not a bad game, Halo and CT are genuinely mediocre games propelled by marketing though, just like FFVII.
You're just another mouthbreather who parrots the usual buzzwords, the fact that you wrote how FFVII has an open world only points out how deluded and utterly clueless you are.

>yfw LotR is cyberpunk

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yeah i didn't read any of the faggy books. I just watched the movies where it was MAGIC and faggot elves shooting arrows like its ninjutsu.
Also some faggy midgets running around with a magic ring.

Retards think overworlds are open world now.

fucker learn what the word "setting" means.
No one is disputing that FF always had a "sci-fi tinge" to it that's the whole god damn point.
FF1-FF5 = Medieval setting with sci-fi elements.
FF6 = Early Industrial Revolution with sci-fi elements.
FF7 = Modern with sci-fi elements
FF8 = Futuristic with sci-fi elements.
FF9 = Medieval(ish) with sci-fi elements.

Your balls are dumb

I don't think we are understanding each other, I'm not saying that games don't have historical impact or that they might or might not deserve "respect" or something, I'm saying that that impact isn't relevant when playing the game itself, if it's boring to me, then it's boring, the higher context of the game and the influence it has on the future doesn't matter to me at that point.

It's still a medieval setting

How many times I have to tell you people, having sci-fi aspects make a medieval-inspired high-fantasy game the same as a game with a modern setting. Stop playing dumb and rail it into your head. Look at the games, and no matter the technological advancements that they share, the difference is very clear. How can someone understand the massive difference between the medieval inspired games and the modern/post-modern inspired games despite them both having advanced technology (the advanced technology in the medieval inspired games are far more sparse) is beyond me.

Let me make it simple to you:
FF 1-5, 9, 11, 12, 14 MEN in tights
the rest

where are they complaining about FF7?
i didn't find one thread where that was the case

>CT is mediocre

oops
*the rest WOMEN in tights

>it's not sci-fi because i said the word "setting"

Right, let's see if you can come up with some arguments unlike that other imbecile.
What supposedly makes CT above mediocre?

are you retarded

FF7's entire theme was how modernization fucks up the Earth, a lot of the other towns were still medieval and fantasy. It was supposed to be like if the industrial revolution hit a FF world. They still had swords, magic and monsters. It really fit and was like a natural evolution of the old games in my opinion.

You tend to see things in a very faggy way, do you uphold faggy literary theory?

Spotted the european

Okay, I get you now. Earlier, you sounded as if you were outright saying that older games should not ever be looked at in a historical context when it comes to critical acclaim.

CT is a highly-polished and well-balanced game. It's only real flaws are somewhat shallower gameplay than a typical JRPG and some unrealized potential for a time-travel game. CT could have been much deeper and had much more content.

But these are more criticisms against what I would have preferred it to be rather than what it is and tries to be. In that sense, CT is an exceptional game.

It became so popular that those who preferred the more fantastic games were a minority.

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>FF7's entire theme was how modernization fucks up the Earth, a lot of the other towns were still medieval and fantasy. It was supposed to be like if the industrial revolution hit a FF world. They still had swords, magic and monsters. It really fit and was like a natural evolution of the old games in my opinion.
FF7 is way past industrialization, they have space ships and genetic engineering technology far more advanced than our own.

Yet, despite said technology and level of civilization, the world functions like a standard medieval fantasy world, with small settlements separated by vast, uncharted expanses of wilderness filled with wild beasts and roving bandits, and characters still using medieval weaponry

That's pretty bad world building, actually. What is the point of going with a futuristic setting if it's functionally and thematically identical to a medieval fantasy world?

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Jesus, why not just say “upvote.” May as fucking well.

I can appreciate that Tolkien did a lot for fantasy books and created a whole world with an incredible amount of linguistic research & etc.
But I am partial to older literary works as well as more modern/postmodern literary theory (Baudrillard, Jameson, etc.)
The fantasy stuff just doesn't do it for me, even if there are clear parallels in the different races and zones to the actual world we live in.
Ergo, faggy elves and midgets and shit.

Was 1 about ancient aliens too?

damn i can't believe someone actually manged to slog through all of FF3. FF2 and FF3 are the undisputed turds of the series.

Because they wanted to make a final fantasy game.

It's like complaining that star wars has lightsabers.

files.catbox.moe/mgj7bl.opus
files.catbox.moe/bde2kk.opus

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There was a single space station but the rest was pretty straight fantasy.

it's almost like it was exaggerated for effect due to being fiction

i only got into FF like 7 years ago with FF6, after playing all the games that came after it ive gone back to play 5 and its easily superior to 6 in every way except maybe for the main villain

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I actually think it's a more interesting way of doing things than just making the world more interconnected and looking more like our own.
The world of FF7 functions off of Mako/materia, which is more technologically advances in some ways than our own tech, but also has some severe limitations.
It's an interesting alternate reality where monsters and magic coexist with gun arms and bioengineered ultima weapons.
Better than just trying to make everything look more like our world.

Because it looks cool.

>CT is a highly-polished
No, unless by that you mean visual values, and on that I agree, it looks amazing and one of the
very best games the SNES has to offer when it comes to that.
>well-balanced game
Absolutely not, the game has zero balance and is even more braindead that your average JRPG.
Considering the mechanical extents of the game, it's also barren, ill designed at its core and with barely any content to speak of, let alone customization or roleplaying elements.
I even prefer Cross in that sense because while it also fails at what it tries to achieve at least it has the taste of using some more experimental mechanics and offers much more content than Trigger, let alone a better realized world.

1 also had a time travelling story where the first boss is actually the main villian of the whole game. So there is some high-tech stuff going on there as well.

his influence wasn't his intention, he would have hated modern fantasy.
Keep in mind that he was a romantic, and that his work were products of romanticism. I recommend you get more into medieval myths and literature, as well as norse mythology, to understand what he was trying to do.

God I hated 15's style.

Ironically I like Verum Rex in Kingdom Hearts but that has so many styles by design and hopefully will never be the entire series. I hope Square stops after that though.

Not aliens, but ancient technology was part of it. Your airship is a relic of an advanced civilization and you fight Tiamat on a flying fortress where a rare random encounter is a nuke-equipped robot superboss.

pretty much
or perhaps more accurately why star wars has lightspeed technology that isn't used for anything but travel.

I mean I liked Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and the Chancery Tales and such. I admittedly don't know anything about how Tolkien's work was originally received or what his intentions were, so might be something worth checking out.
Thanks user.

One of the first jrpgs to not lock you into a rigid tile-based movement grid
Positional attacks
Fantastic emotes, soundtrack, characters, sprites, sound effects
One of the first games to interact with time travel and it being a core element of story and How you play/navigate the world
The pacing is great, most areas are short and don't force backtracking.
Although it's a serious storyline, the game is very campy
Best implementation of ATB
Very early addition of NG+, one of the first.
Combo techs drive party composition
Zero grinding

Biggest criticism would be how easy the game is.

What were the positional attacks? Some of the specials had arcs to them or went forward in a line to hit enemies, but you couldn't backstab or anything right? Been a long time since i played.

What is not polished about CT?
How is it not balanced?
>ill designed at its core and with barely any content to speak of, let alone customization or roleplaying element
This just strikes me as hyperbole and arguing against what you think it should be rather than what it is and tries to be.
>Crono Cross at least it has the taste of using some more experimental mechanics
Well yeah, CT doesn't use any real innovative mechanics. The double/triple tech thing is just a minor gimmick. But that's the thing, it doesn't try anything crazy or difficult, but it also doesn't fuck up what it does and people really enjoy it a lot.

it's because Final fantasy seven is the best game ever made, and the best game it is possible to make. If you don't understand that you will never understand anything. Cos you're a fucking noob.

I love that kind of thing in games. I didn't realize it started that long ago.

there were a few AoE attacks. There's the falcon hit that hits everything in a line.
Overall nothing world-changing but it's a nice positive addition to a standard ATB combat system.

Le Morte d' arthur
Beowulf
The Nibelungenlied
The eddas
Volsung saga
all of these and more are recommended, his intention was to revive the old traditions of myths into the modern world and make a new myth for England using the same threads used to make myths around Europe. The guy was a literary professor, who was deeply sad that the literary traditions had died.
Instead of doing what he wanted, hippies took it as a psychedelic thing and then 'nerds' took over.

Yep, cyclone's a big circle and there are line attacks as well.
If the enemies moved favorably, they'd be vulnerable to certain special attacks.
The only downside was not being able to move your characters, something that would likely be a feature in Chrono Trigger 2.

Thanks again buddy will add to my reading list

FF7 is terrible.
That stairs section in Shinra HQ can fuck right off.

>complaining about futuristic settings
>forgetting about magitech armor in 6

>he took the stairs like a retard

It's as almost as if you're too retarded to have played FFVI.

Which is why they have a "bust down the front door" option ?
Hello?

>One of the first jrpgs to not lock you into a rigid tile-based movement grid
Wrong, and it didn't succeed at that either way.
>Positional attacks
See above.
>One of the first games to interact with time travel and it being a core element of story and How you play/navigate the world
Also wrong.
>The pacing is great, most areas are short and don't force backtracking.
Massive opinion which also means nothing.
Backtracking isn't also a bad thing if done well.
>Best implementation of ATB
Absurdly wrong, but ATB is a garbage system either way and the game is also far too easy for it to matter.
>Combo techs drive party composition
Wrong, they're a meaningless extra.
>Zero grinding
Big deal given how hardly any JRPGs do.
>What is not polished about CT?
The entire mechanical side.
>How is it not balanced?
You can't be serious, the game is completely brainless on any level, party composition barely even matters and customization is nonexistent.
>arguing against what you think it should be
I think a JRPG should not force me into premade characters with zero actual customization or a story and world where I have zero inputs, there's plenty of games that give me both and CT gives me neither.
>but it also doesn't fuck up what it does
It does, massively.
When a game not only has zero challenge whatsoever but also falls apart in terms of its own narrative it's hard to say it doesn't fuck up.
But I suppose you think the brainless tech and heal spam, the nonsensical time travel plot or Zeal being a single room are amazing achievements and a mark of quality.

>What is not polished about CT?
Nothing. CT is objectively the best game Squaresoft ever made.
This makes FF7vrigins insecure about their game.

>What is not polished about CT?
>How is it not balanced?
What balance? It has one of the most anemic and shallow RPG systems of any RPG ever made, as well as being extremely easy.

Enemies pose no threat and deal a fraction of the damage the player character is capable of dishing out. There's literally like one or two status inflicting abilities in the game, everything just deals damage in a boring, straightforward way. Dual/triple techs are just boring variations on the same 'do tons of damage' or 'heal tons of HP' template. ATB just encourages mindlessly bashing the attack button as soon as possible to prevent enemies from getting hits in.

The fact that you STILL remember it means it did a great job as a section.
"You can sneak in, but the penalty is a small amount of tedium"
And it also forces you to feel the enormity of the tower; instantly elevatoring doesn't have the same effect.

How is it my fault that the game punishes me for acting like a sensible white guy instead of a braindead nigger?

Legend of Mana had incredibly basic controls and mediocre combat and was a step back from SD3 in those regards.

I remember it because it was fucking terrible.

>"You can sneak in, but the penalty is a small amount of tedium"
30 minutes of climbing stairs is not a "small amount of tedium"

>Biggest criticism would be how easy the game is.
Most RPG's are easy as shit.
RPG's aren't meant to be difficult.

That said CT can get hectic as fuck if you select the highest game speed.

>The entire mechanical side.
how about just a tiny bit of detail user.
You have some massively fucking arrogant opinions for not even being able to make a shred of an argument to support them.
When there are games I feel as strongly about as you seem to feel about CT, I can actually point to specific fucking issues and elaborate at length on why I think they're a problem. You seem unable to do this.

This is the kind of bait Yea Forums users need to bring back. Blatant enough to be bait, but retarded enough to get 400+ replies. 10/10, you're fucking good, dude. Keep at it, I really look forward to more of your work.

because it was such a revolutionary game

>ask someone to argue their opinion
>they do
>wrong
>wrong
>wrong
>opinion
>wrong
>wrong
>you're asking me to explain my stance? I can't even fucking the absurdity of this
off yourself my man

>It has one of the most anemic and shallow RPG systems of any RPG ever made, as well as being extremely easy.
Shallow doesn't mean unbalanced. Learn what words mean. Hell I even brought up shallowness as one of the few possible legitimate criticism of Chrono Trigger.

Five minutes of stair climbing.
Have you ever done that in real life?
The downtime really makes the upcoming section pop that much more.

AND it's entirely optional.

FF13 takes 40 hours to open up, FF7 takes 5, and Midgar is STILL an interesting place to explore.

>Five minutes of stair climbing.
5 minutes my ass.
Not even if you fast-forward the dialog boxes.

It's not optional when you play the game for the first time because there's no way for your to know what's coming see

Okay, so I've gathered that the switch version is just a port. I've been out of the loop for a while being a normalfag. Is there going to be a remaster?

Wrong quote see

youtube.com/watch?v=4MhEm5fYPmo

>finally get out of midgar
>literally cant get back in to look for stuff you missed/secrets/etc
Was this a good or bad design decision?

>how about just a tiny bit of detail user.
What more detail do you need?
>Can't customize any character, growth is completely streamlined and linear.
>Equipment is a straight, linear upgrade business, get into next town, buy better equipment, rinse and repeat until you find the super weapons of the week
>Party composition doesn't matter because there's no meaningful enemy or tech design, let alone proper damage calculations
>Movement mechanics don't matter since only the enemy can move around and they're harmless either way
>Exotic AoE attacks don't matter since again, you can't reposition to make the best of them, and most of them are just different flavours of circular AoE, Magus can also attack all enemies with his spells, making the supposed crowd control even more worthless when it could matter the most
>Almost zero enemy variety, dozens of pallette swaps of harmless mooks with zero effort put in their skillsets
>Different combinations attack are just strong/stronger/Strongest with maybe some element tacked into it
>Only reason to use combinations is high DPS on single targets
>Luminaire makes most of those useless too
>Dungeons are the usual empty labyrinths with nothing in them, and aren't even interesting to navigate
>Basic core mechanics are bog standard, uninteresting and unbalanced
>Equipment design is made up of stat sticks with nothing unique to them
>You have zero input on how the world shapes out outside of sparing Magus or not, which makes hardly any difference
CT is another poorly put together adventure game propelled by its visual values and a sunday anime storyline, pretending otherwise is just disingenous, it fails at all the possible RPG elements it has.

Considering you literally burst out the front door of shinra hq in a high speed motorcycle chase being able to just walk back into midgar afterwards would have been kinda dumb.

You can though. There's the key to sector 5 and you can also go back through Shinra HQ when you parachute into Midgar later on.

man forgot how atmospheric the music was, even if it was low quality MIDI

>Shallow doesn't mean unbalanced.
The two are related. When your mechanics are extremely simple, there's not a whole lot to balance.

Just watching a minute of that felt like an hour.
You FF7 brainlets can't into pacing.
And it's even worse when you actually play it, especially with garbage D-Pad controls.

>stop acting like a retard and climb!

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>Positional attacks
Not meaningful in any way, since your characters can't move nor can you freely target AOE's nor is there any friendly fire. Enemies can technically move, but they do so extremely sporadically and are just motionless 99% of the time. It doesn't amount to any real added depth in combat.

The vast majority of abilities in CT are still 'target one enemy/ally' or 'target ALL enemies/allies'. Look for yourself:
strategywiki.org/wiki/Chrono_Trigger/Techniques

>One of the first games to interact with time travel and it being a core element of story and How you play/navigate the world
CT doesn't use time travel in any meaningful way, it's a time travel game that is paradoxicallty completely on rails. Your only choice is how soon you want to end the game by teleporting to Lavos, and even that is realistically only a choice on New Game Plus.

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FFVII had an amazing soundtrack
youtube.com/watch?v=rMym4dzWwzY

>People still trying to argue with WPRG-kun

Cmon help me out with an answer.

doesn't matter. Balance still could have been fucked up, and it wasn't. The result is an easy but fun game that casuals love.
I don't think it belongs at the top of all-time greatest games ever lists like it frequently does, but it's still an extremely well-executed game that delivered exactly what its core audience wanted.
The fact that the abilities are all reasonably well balanced to the point that you can swap out party members and the game plays differently but doesn't change the difficulty dramatically is a credit to the design and implementation of the game.
Yes, it's easy. It's supposed to be fucking easy. That's a valid critique of the game but only so far. No shit the game is not Wizardry it never tried to be.

>durr FF VII da best FF hurrr
Nostalgiatism

Take your autismo pills

>People still can't recognize who's WRPG-Kun
Just because your overrated normalfag trash is getting exposed doesn't mean he's behind it.

>Can't customize any character, growth is completely streamlined and linear.
So? You can customize your party. This is criticism is so arbitrary it's stupid.
>Equipment is a straight, linear upgrade business, get into next town
What does this have to do with mechanics? This is content.
>Party composition doesn't matter because there's no meaningful enemy or tech design
Except it does matter. If you mean "I'm never required to reconfigure my party to win" well no fucking shit dumbass this is an easy casual game it's not a hardcore tactics game.
>Exotic AoE attacks don't matter since again, you can't reposition to make the best of them
Yet more "game is an orange not an apple" criticism.
Chrono Trigger battle system is generic FF-style ATB battle. The positional stuff is there to add a few more decisions and some dynamic elements to that system. It's not meant to be a full tactical RPG system.
>Almost zero enemy variety
Simply wrong, there's plenty of variety.
>dozens of pallette swaps
Have you literally never played any other game from before 5th gen?
>Only reason to use combinations is high DPS on single targets
Or to reduce number of counter-attacks.
Or to get particular elemental damage
Or to do full AoEs before you get endgame spells
This stuff isn't super-challenging or anything but it's there and engaging and it's why people love the game.
>Basic core mechanics are bog standard, uninteresting and unbalanced
They are not unbalanced.
>You have zero input on how the world shapes
In other words it's a JRPG not a WRPG. This is not criticism.

>Balance still could have been fucked up, and it wasn't.
The game is completely fucking unbalanced starting with the simple reason that no enemy puts up a fight.
If you want to actually go into detail how there's several overlaps in your BASIC toolkit that renders most of it completely useless it only gets worse.
>The fact that the abilities are all reasonably well balanced to the point that you can swap out party members
You can swap out party members because the game is piss easy and there's no functional difference in what each character supposedly adds to the party's functions
>and the game plays differently
It doesn't.
>No shit the game is not Wizardry it never tried to be.
That's not the fucking point and nobody's arguing with that, the fact that you still pretend people are bitching that CT doesn't play like another game and not the fact that CT inherently fails at what it tries to offer makes you look like a moron.
Nobody here is saying CT needed to be the next Ultima 4 or the next Xanadu, just the fact that what little it offers is also done badly FOR WHAT IT IS.

>just the fact that what little it offers is also done badly FOR WHAT IT IS.
It's literally not and the very first attempts anyone has made to try and prove this point are laughably bad.

>the game is piss easy
again all your criticisms boil down to this proving you don't understand the game. Yes, the game is fucking easy user nobody claims otherwise. It's supposed to be an easy game.

Because even til this day, the game is of epic proportions.

So basically you cannot say FF7 is bad or that you didn't like it or you are automatically contrarian and just won't see reason. Lol, imagine having product loyalty this bad.

>So? You can customize your party.
Big fucking deal.
>What does this have to do with mechanics?
Are you dumb? It has all to do with the mechanics you imbecile.
>Except it does matter.
>But it doesn't because it's an easy casual game
So you're a schizo too.
>Yet more "game is an orange not an apple" criticism.
Basic mechanics not working is Apples and Oranges criticism?
>Simply wrong, there's plenty of variety.
There's barely 30 enemy types in the game.
>Have you literally never played any other game from before 5th gen?
I did, most of them weren't as aggressively cheap as CT, especially for its time.
>This stuff isn't super-challenging
And none of what you listed matters either, by your own admission, so what's the point?
>They are not unbalanced.
They are, they absolutely are.
>In other words it's a JRPG not a WRPG.
Except it's full of JRPGs that give you meaningful player agency you fucking imbecile.

You're just another idiot pretending there's nothing to the industry outside casual garbage and it's fine for CT to be casual garbage that can't even get basic mechanics right.
Saying the game is fine because it's supposed to be garbage only makes your supposed apology even more aggravating.

>an easy game exists
>the existence of this game infuriates me
>so I make up as much bullshit criticism as possible

>FF7
>Game

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There's easy games and there's easy games with no effort whatsoever where nothing fucking works(which are shitty games), CT is the latter.

DELETE THIS

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reddit spacing

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they should unironically add upvote downvote system to Yea Forums

>tfw crisis core was my first FF game
am I the only one?

Based.

ff6 is reddit just because of kefka alone.

It was the 90s.
Most of its audience was reading comics, weather they belonged in a clique where they could admit so or not.
They were bombarded with one of the greatest advertisement campaign in video game history. That, coupled with the fact that a futuristic setting, big action set pieces and beautiful pre-rendered backgrounds were things more appealing than the brand, which most people weren't even aware of. It's not like Final Fantasy I, II(IV) and III(IV) where well known in the west at that point, Final Fantasy VII is what brought attention to the series and made fans of the previous ones retroactively.
It was also kind-of the first and best of its kind by introducing 3D polygon models and worldbuilding trough FMV to a genre that previously didn't really utilize the CD storage space and fifth generation hardware power to its full potential.

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>How did FF7 not alienate everyone?
It's shit only zoomers will support this garbage/butchered version of this game and they can have it...enjoy your watered down version of a great game i'll be playing the REAL version of final fantasy 7.

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Am I the only contrarian that doesn't really like any Final Fantasy?
The games core is a mix of tedious, full of useless stuff and little variation or freedom. All with strange design (like the random encounters or the corridors space). FFXII proved how braindead the mechanics were, and is unironically the only one I played that I enjoyed. It didn't try to mask the fact it is a slightly more elaborate visual novel. Also the character cast was less cringe inducing, averaging at 30 years of age probably helped compared to the 18 of the others.

>protagonist is a literal tranny
>gets cucked by a dude with an even bigger sword
>"muh evil corporation"
>willingly allying with a fucking nigger terrorist
Is it, dare I say, woke and bluepilled?

First one I beat. Technically 7 was first, but I don't think playing 10 minutes on a friend's copy means much.

BASED
Only seething nincel disagree
FF was only truly alive once it went Sony
Now it’s back to soulless garbage for virgin tendies

great taste

>FFXII proved how braindead the mechanics were, and is unironically the only one I played that I enjoyed.

>complains that the series has braindead mechanics
>praises a game that literally plays itself

>Also the character cast was less cringe inducing, averaging at 30 years of age probably helped compared to the 18 of the others.
Except nobody in FFXII besides Basch is anywhere near 30, and half the cast is under 20 years old. And no, Fran 'i'm a 1000-year old being who looks like a young stripper' doesn't count.

You have literal donutsteel Mary Sues like Balthier who became a judge when he was only 16 years old, and then left it all behind to become a pirate, and we are expected to take this seriously.

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Your reading comprehension is very lacking.
I found this game less bizarre precisely because it plays itself and is a 3D visual novel. Other entries in the series pretend to be actual games, but only introduce slog and a retarded pacing in the process.

gimme a decent jrpg to play

Final Fantasy 7 was just one of those rare occasions where everything came together and the stars aligned to create the perfect video game. Everyone loved it. It was a labor of love, a project of passion. The devs really captured lightning in a bottle, and all of Square's and Square Enix's attempts to recapture that lighting have been fruitless, to say the least.

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Are you saying Shinra wasn't evil?

no it isn't.
Every criticism you have depends on "it's easy" as an excuse for not being invalid.

What game before it was better? 6? Maybe. 5? No. 4? Not really.

Yeah, bro. Nepotism is totally unrealistic.

>I found this game less bizarre precisely because it plays itself and is a 3D visual novel
Did you even do ANY sidequest bosses?

>snippet
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why do you retards do this? has there ever been an argument done in this manner that changed a single mind?

Yea Forums is THAT contrary

>why do people have a discussion on a board on a website meant for having discussions
I mean they aren't going to change each others minds but come one mate, it's called a conversation.

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>I mean
you sound hesitant and unsure, probably don't know what you are talking about
>they aren't going to change each others minds
you can't be sure of that
>come one mate
appeal to authority
>it's called a conversation
too many pauses and jumpcuts, therefor not a conversation

Cringe

>solid gameplay

it's basic bitch shit.

it's what won the Shinra/Wutai war, if you follow the path of the gun before it gets taken to midgar it literally is pointing at Wutai, Shinra was so bad ass they basically held their only competition at gun point and said "fucking try it"

>We will never get another final fantasy game with this much world building before even the main game starts.

>you sound hesitant and unsure, probably don't know what you are talking about
Keep reading
>you can't be sure of that
Oh shit you did keep reading. Well there is only one way to find out, discuss the topic at hand and see if someones point of view or mind changes or don't and wonder forever.
>appeal to authority
I'm not authority
>too many pauses and jumpcuts, therefor not a conversation
>debating the meat of their posts is not a conversation
I guess this isn't a conversation either, huh?

private corporations can literally do no wrong and if you say otherwise you're a filthy commie is what retards like him actually believe

Oh god this scene will look fucking amazing in the remake

Because back then people cared about enjoying something creative and exciting instead of trying to shit on everything to show how much better their taste is than REEE NORMIES to a bunch of people they'll never meet.

I was genuinely curious and just straight up had a bad time with it, but thanks for the projection

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>Keep reading
you can't make me nor should you demand me to
>Oh shit you did keep reading
you shouldn't surprised for someone who is so unsure of everything
>Well there is only one way to find out
there could many ways
>discuss the topic at hand
we are right now, as you can see
>see if someones point of view or mind changes
yours won't because you are blind to reality
>wonder forever
you might
>I'm not authority
that's an authoritative statement
>I guess
more hesitation and hesitancy
>this isn't a conversation
it's not a fruitful one, going by your inability to understand your own pitfalls
>huh?
literally retarded

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>you can't make me nor should you demand me to
But how will you respond to my posts?
>you shouldn't surprised for someone who is so unsure of everything
I am very sure of things, actually, especially in this case.
>there could many ways
There could English as well, ya dig?
>we are right now, as you can see
I was talking in regards to people debating something
>yours won't because you are blind to reality
Which reality is that?
>you might
I know
>that's an authoritative statement
No, it's opinionated knowledge
>more hesitation and hesitancy
Nothing wrong with that
>it's not a fruitful one, going by your inability to understand your own pitfalls
Not sure what your on about but I'm laffin'. We're having a conversation about having conversations.
>literally retarded
That's not nice nigga

He's right though. 6 is the only one you could argue was better than 7. 8 sure as fuck wasn't and while 9 and 10 were good they weren't as good as 7.

Criminally shit taste.

>tinny and low quality samples
Get raped, retard

>But
it's "butt"
>how will you respond to my posts?
by replying, baka idiot
>I am very sure of things
authoritative opinion, but authoritative none the less
>actually,
you are second guessing everything, schizo freak
>especially
look how stupid this word looks in reality, just say it aloud 20 times over and over and you'll see
>There could English
that's not even english
>ya dig?
are you a nigger
>I was talking
no one cares, mom
>in regards to people debating something
in regards, what? finish your statement
>Which reality is that?
there is only one reality
>I know
more self-assured authority
>No, it's opinionated knowledge
more self-assured behavior
>that
that?
>Not sure
your self-assured "knowledge" seems to be dropped at a moments notice
>We're having a conversation
okay
>having conversations
okay
>nigga
are you a nigger?

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>it's "butt"
Wrong!
>by replying, baka idiot
You have to read first
>authoritative opinion, but authoritative none the less
Who cares?
>you are second guessing everything, schizo freak
I haven't second guessed anything, other than choosing to reply to you
>look how stupid this word looks in reality, just say it aloud 20 times over and over and you'll see
I'm sorry words are hard. But Google will tell you what they mean
>that's not even english
It's "English"
>are you a nigger
And?
>no one cares, mom
Not your mom, Schizo freak
>in regards, what? finish your statement
You failed to read the sentence. Whop whop whooop.
>there is only one reality
Close mindedness isn't cute
>more self-assured authority
And?
>your self-assured "knowledge" seems to be dropped at a moments notice
Cite an example
>are you a nigger?
And?

Absolutely nothing has changed

ahhh

hahahah
AAAAAAAhh
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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there are upvotes and downvotes. you count the amount of replies that say "based" or "cringe" respectively

Are you okay, user

I played 6 first and I prefer it to 7. There are a few things that irked me in 7: the overpowered main character, the simplification of equipment, the smaller roster, the long-ass summons...
Other than that, 7 made me buy a PS instead of the Saturn I had my eyes on, and it was really incredible, especially graphics-wise, for the time.

kill me

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