Persona 3 is objectively a shitty game, and the only reason why anyone praises it nowadays is because of their nostalgia boner.
>Tactics are borderline "artificial difficulty" and there's no reason why the combat couldn't have been traditionally turn based like the following games
>Character arcs are borderline nonexistent with the exception of Junpei, Yukari, and Mitsuru
>The Answer absolutely tarnished the impact of the ending with it's borderline fanfiction writing
>Tartarus has to be one of the worst designed dungeons period since it serves as nothing more than filler until you reach the next Full Moon boss
>The villains were pure shit, Strega are borderline edgelords that do nothing relevant for the story whatsoever outside of "exist" as an opposing force
Also reminder, if you see anyone praising P3, they're likely some clown called Ryan from /pg/.
Persona 5
OP is objectively a fag.
>Tactics are borderline "artificial difficulty" and there's no reason why the combat couldn't have been traditionally turn based like the following games
git gud, they're not that bad. Game is easy for the most part.
>Character arcs are borderline nonexistent with the exception of Junpei, Yukari, and Mitsuru
As opposed to P4 and P5 where exactly 0 of the main cast get development past their introduction?
>The Answer absolutely tarnished the impact of the ending with it's borderline fanfiction writing
The Answer is shit, will agree with you here
>>Tartarus has to be one of the worst designed dungeons period since it serves as nothing more than filler until you reach the next Full Moon boss
Nigger P3 at least pretended to be an SMT game stil with dungeon crawling, what did you expect?
>The villains were pure shit, Strega are borderline edgelords that do nothing relevant for the story whatsoever outside of "exist" as an opposing force
Strega just served as a general antagonist group and they served their roles well, Nyx was the main villain of the game and was great.
Objectively false. Also fuck you Ryan.
>le /vg/ boogeyman
Suck a cock faggot.
Fuck you, you cunt. Yea Forums is a P3 board. If you don't like that fact, pack up and leave.
P3 is better then p5
Stop trying to sow dissident
>Persona 5 thread
>OP opens by telling us why P3 is bad instead of why P5 is good
>OP is a fag
These are all correct. Also the months are dull as fuck since most of them are empty for grinding away social links. Especially that 2 month gap to ending.
>b-but Nix and the ending!
Cool, play a 100+ hour rpg for the last couple of hours.
3's gameplay is worse than 5 but it has better songs and characters. Except for Fuuka she sucks!
I remember when you called me Ryan a few days ago. In a thread that had nothing to do with 5. You are obsessed boy!
Sure thing, homosexual. You just can't keep P5's dick out of your mouth, huh?
I played Persona 3 after Persona 5 and I find it mostly better, but you're right about Tactics being artificial difficulty.
Also I just ignore The Answer. You're wrong about everything else though.
Fuuka doesn't suck!
Guys, I seriously, seriously want to FUCK that CAT, do you think they'll let it happen in p5r?
No. Stop being gay.
I would want to it regardless of gender. Spunky shortstacks are my bag, baby.
Most people understand that 3 is one of the worst games in the series after having played them all but there are some P3fags who cant get over it so they relentlessly try to shit on every single other Persona title in an attempt to make P3 look better
I've been playing MT games before you were even born fag.
Wrong on all counts. Good job you two.
>Prtnded to be an SMT game
That's exactly why it's shit. It doesn't have its own identity, and SMT is garbage in and of itself,
Smt will always be better then your shitty high school waifu simulator stupid niggers
You're garbage and so are your opinions.
Man, this bait just reeks of tryhard.
Cry more you fanboy. Fuuka is not coming out of the game to suck your dick.
Are you still fucking seething Ryan? Holy shit.
Persona only fags are the fucking worst.
We need to eradicate homo furries from Yea Forums altogether. No more subtle bullshit
I don't really rank P3 that highly though, it's just that all of your points are simply inaccurate, to say nothing of how you apply them solely to P3 when the majority also apply to future games, sometimes to a greater extent.
>Nigger P3 at least pretended to be an SMT game
>took out 2-3 elements
>replaced designed dungeons with proc-gen garbage
>removed the ability to change ally Personas
>removed the ability to control allies entirely
>removed demon negotiation
How fucking high are you? Every other Persona game is more like mainline than P3
>nostalgia
Nope, you P5babies get btfo every time you try using that. I only played P3 for the first time in in 2012 or so, when I was around 18. And it was amazing even then
I mean all Persona characters are just copies of the previous games for the most part. Sometimes it is just extremely blatant and they are worse than the original. Lisa and Chie cough.
DeSu DeSu DeSu DeSu
>Tactics are borderline "artificial difficulty"
>Character arcs are borderline nonexistent
>The Answer with it's borderline fanfiction writing
>Strega are borderline edgelords
is OP borderline retarded?
Kill yourself already
I think you’re a borderline faggot.
Whysat?
Hope the games journalist job works out for you
Try harder next time. It's way too obvious.
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
Cute.
quit being a faggot and instead talk about based P5. that's what the thread is for, after all.
>implying games journos dont fellate P3 nonstop
Its baby's first rpg/vn with a 2deep4u feel and without a ton of problematic moments
...
>Yea Forums is a P3 board
Since fucking when Ryan? P3 has always been despised on this board for being an emo cringe fest of epic proportions. Hardly anyone finds your little "tactics" simulator fascinating, and the dungeon design is pure garbage. Even the fucking soundtrack is horrendous, with its nigger rap music. Take your seething ass back to /pg/.
>Incapable of reading as well as writing
you'll fit right in
>always been despised
How new and braindead are you? I’m not even the guy you respond to but seriously?
shut the fuck up with your /vg/ boogeyman you fucking fag
P3 invented the SL mechanic and VN mechanics that p5 wastes 40+ hours of waving through GUIs not saying p3s the second coming but you can't criticize it in one breath than act as if p5 isn't derivative of its many mechanics.
>thinking Im him
P3fags sure are brainlets
Persona as a whole is pretty cringe.
the only reason I dislike P3 is the end. I think the self-sacrificial ending combined with a self-insert character is honestly one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen in media. You're literally presenting the player as a Jesus-like figure as the players "friends" fawn over what a cool guy he (you) were
I hate P3's ending so much. I hate self inserts in every game but I especially hate the self insert in P3
this
P5 also fixes some of P3's most aggregious problems. No one said P3 was so flawed that nothing good could come out of it.
Are you suggesting that any criticism of SMT makes praise of P3 invalid?
It's finally happened to me, this is destiny.
He was never a self insert. Because you could never accept death or comes to terms with it to save others. Or have friends. That is why you hate it so.
>P5 also fixes some of P3's most aggregious problems.
Not user, but examples? I know there are many good parts, but I'd argue that P5 adds just as many problems as it fixes.
P2 has even worse gameplay than P3 unironically, but hot damn is that story good
>bland japanese male student who is the sole character you control and whose dialogue is scripted by you
>he was never a self insert
WHY DOES EVERY FANBASE INSIST ON HAVING A BOOGEYMAN WITH A NAME
>DMC
>FF
>WHATEVER THE FUCK "ERIC" BELONGS TO
>NOW THIS SHIT
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>Thinks admitting to sucking the OP's cock is preferable to being the OP
good job, user, best of luck to you
But you aren't a male japanese student
It's fun to flamewar apparently. Expecially here.
>DMC
Who
Besides if you mean barry, dude's a nickname for bazztek/ffxv-kun, that guy exists, ryan doesn't.
>falling for one dude's autistic spamming of "ryan" as a collective fanbase thing
stop being retarded
Just hit post-Lavenza reveal dungeon. Pretty good shit so far not gonna lie.
Black Frost is my fucking boy and basically carried me through the last couple dungeons by himself.
The DMC/KH/FF bogeyman was a real guy and though he rarely posted, he was a real guy and tried to ruin the threads he was in.
op is a p3fag false-flagging to make p5 look bad. he's been derailing every persona and smt thread for days now with this garbage.
>procedurally generated dungeons
>drops elements like nuke and psi
>drops damaging light/dark spells
>fatigue system punishes you for trying to explore the dungeon in a game where dungeon exploration is ostensibly the most important thing
>drops demon negotiation for a nonsense card system
>removed the ability to control your allies
>made the player the only one who could use multiple personas
Yo I used Black Frost lategame too. Absolute unit. Wish I got to fuse him earlier. Luckily I can use him the entire way through on New Game +
Enjoy the ending , literally just up ahead
So by your logic he's not a self-insert because I'll never have a girlfriend or functional social life?
Based. Persona 3 tards are delusional
>its only a self insert if its literally you
This. Over the past couple of weeks, there's been far too many shitposters screeching at people, and calling them P5babbies because it's a far superior game than P3. Literally tell me one thing P5 doesn't have over P3 that isn't an objective shitpost. I'll wait.
>P5 has actual dungeons
>The soundtrack is smooth and well composed, fits the tone on all occasions
>Social Links actually have real benefits for doing them
>The villains are realistic and mesh well with the theme of the story
>The character cast are engaging and have arcs that don't drag across the story
>The plot actually progresses and doesn't take until the 50% mark of the game to begin
It's Pathetic that Ryan and his boyband ever thought they could drag P5 down. What a bunch of incels.
Wrong, P4/golden fixes those problems user not P5.
P4 brought back a controllable party as well as FES but that's a port so we'll treat it seperatly,
now P5 did attempt to bring back some decent mechanics but asolutely butchered them, guns break the game and make it way too easy to AOA and hit weaknesses, negotiation is shit and incomparable to the layered complexity of mainstream SMT namely Nocturne and SJs systems where you'd have a different response depending on MANY factors like alignment, the type of demon e.g child, women, old man, demons alignment etc.
Perhaps the most disappointing thing was the story for me but everything really saddened me about P5 it's the weakest story yet with little pull or stakes for conflict, 3 at least had a motivating reason same with 4 heck even fucking 2 and Persona which had some batshit stories especially 2.
The characters are insufferable though the designs were top notch, aesthetic wise P5 did not disappoint I was blown away by every dungeon and design Shoji meguro delivered on the OST too though it's just as repetitive as mainline lol.
You can self insert into him but he's not a self insert character. You can clearly infer some kind of personality because of his past and his dialogue choices. You can tell he's apathetic and typically likes to be by himself ever since his parents passed away. Over time he slowly opens up to his friends and forms bonds with them to the point of willingly sacrificing himself for them. It's a really simple character to understand and he's not (You) because he's gone through things that you haven't
Gave him Repel Phys and basically invincible to most enemies I've seen so far.
Yeah, just need to get through all the minibosses leading up to it, and collect all the new personas in the area. Im mad I waited so long to play this game.
Yes!
You gonna do NG+ or wait for The Royal?
Nothing about that character is you though. He is a set in stone character with a few choices in between with an door end either way.
I'm user still wanting a response from y'all
Probably NG+ since I don't own any Sony systems. Mostly playing it so Im up to speed for Persona Q2 and Scramble when those come out.
Ryan sounds pretty based to me honestly. Showing 5babs to be the secondaries they are.
But can't I like them all? All SMT and Persona games alike.
If only he actually existed.
Too based to be true
Nigger the only characters to even get proper development in SEES are
>Yukari
>Junpei
>Akihiko
Mitsuru's development doesn't take place until her father dies very late in the fucking game, Fuuka quite literally sits around doing nothing and gets zero character focus, Ken stops being relevant after Shinjiro dies, and Aigis doesn't even have a character until the Answer, which utterly fucked up the story. I'm sick and tired of you utter mouth breathers claiming P3 has good fucking characters. Just because they get their Ultimate Persona's in the main story, doesn't mean shit.
>Akihiko
>development
gotta get stronger haha did you see that shinji
>, Fuuka quite literally sits around doing nothing and gets zero character focus,
Untrue!
Fuuka goes through a lot of internal growth and development!
>being neutral in a blatant falseflag shitposting thread about a franchise which includes killing people because of differing ideological views that could affect the status quo
Also based. Was going for Makoto at first since I did Mitsuru and Yukiko in the other games and she seemed similar enough, but then I couldn't resist Futaba when I finally met her.
>Aigis doesn’t even have a character until the Answer
Did you forget the scene where she has a breakdown about feeling purposeless in the face of annihilation and eventually overcomes her logical robot brain by making the irrational choice to keep fighting against impossible odds? Thought that was pretty noticeable.
Futaba's incredible, absolutely best girl. Kawakami and Doctor Takemi are good picks too.
I meant how P5 fixed them and not problems in P3 itself, I just wanted to hear something positive about P5 that wasn't pretentious. I tried to like the game, but coming off the other Persona games it felt too samey to me without any of the commitment. The visuals are a nice upgrade though.
Also,
>P5 dungeons are not an improvement just an equally bad alternative.
>Fatigue system is dumb, but ultimately doesn't really cause any problems whatsoever. It was also Persona 4 that fixed it, not P5.
Wait is this anti or for P5 because P5 did not have
>procedurally generated dungeons
It had nuke and psi but They're kind of useless considering how easy the base difficulty of the game is therefore defeating the purpose. They're a novelty.
The damaging light/dark spells is a good one they missed a ton of shit in Persona though namely ailments and some attack types like gravity.
A Fatigue system is in every Persona game ever after 1, even 2 had hunger which acts like fatigue. Don't know why your talking it up no shit it's important hence why it's in every game but 1.
>Nonsense card system
Now that's true the card shit is retarded a fundamental issue with modern persona is the overconflation of demons with persona the system in 1 and 2 was preferable and more interesting
>Controllable party
Removed but brought back by FES/P4
>Player is only one who can use multiple persona
That's god awful that's got to be one of the worst changes in the game it completely obliterates layers of strategy and fun. It's just lazy programming but they somehow managed to make it a crucial messianic plot point lol.
P5 can't take credit for systems that literally existed since P1-2 lol
>guns break the game and make it way too easy to AOA and hit weaknesses
Most enemies arent weak to guns, if you're talking about Joker's ability to force down that takes a significant amount of bullets as well investment into a SL that isnt even available till later in the game
negotiation is shit and incomparable to the layered complexity of mainstream SMT
Its not as complex as mainline but its there and theres a logic and consistency to it. Its highly preferable to literally playing a card match game to get your demon
>Perhaps the most disappointing thing was the story for me
I didnt put anything like this in my post because its ultimately subjective but I didnt like P3's story that much at all, and much preferred every other Persona's. People sometimes praise the story and atmosphere but I find it highly melodramatic and predictable.
>The characters are insufferable
also subjective. I liked some of the cast of P3 a lot like, Junpei for instance I thought was pretty high up there as a "bro" character almost as good as Eikichi and certainly better than Ryuji and Yusuke. On the other hand Yukari is still one of my least favorite characters in the entire franchise. Overall though I'd say the writing shines here better than the story as a whole.
>OST too though it's just as repetitive as mainline lol.
Mainline has some great OST's especially IV
Stop fucking bringing up SMT as an argument, Ryan. It's not helping you in the slightest by mentioning a dead franchise.
She was a cutie. Was hot for doctor for a bit, but felt a girl closer to Joker's age group was better for him. Plus Sojiro doesn't seem like he'd disapprove much.
Plus she was a genuinely fun character and contributed quite a bit that the others couldn't have.
>have control over where he goes after school and in his free time
>have control over who he makes friends with
>have control over almost every word that comes out of his mouth
>have control over every action he performs in battle
Yeah he's completely set in stone alright. Do you think you need to literally shove yourself up their ass and wear them like a suit for it to be self-insertion?
>P3fag
>not a secondary
But seriously, who is Ryan? Why did he leave /vg/?
>tfw just finished persona 5
>the first part was really kino (kamoshida-post madarame)
>the second part of the game I was engrossed but notices the next target was boring as hell and so as his palace (best palace theme though)
>Futaba's was kino, peak palace
>but notices Ryuji is a fucking annoying bitch and when he literally opens his mouth from this arc onwards, I want to just shut him up
>Ann is a fucking cardboard cutout
>Post-Futaba to after Okumura was fucking awful, everything during Okumura's palace was hella annoying
>literally gave up for months
>came back to finally finish it
>Sae's palace onwards it was kino through and through, a bit fucking dumb but kino nonetheless
Tbh the best Persona game out of all the games, characters that are not (you), morgana, makoto, or futaba are hit or miss, the confidants are all around better with some stinkers, would probably not play it anymore though.
>Its highly preferable to literally playing a card match game to get your demon
If only it wasn't negated when you get the kid at the arcade to like level 2 in his confidant and then all you have to do is click one button to instantly recruit any persona you want with 100% accuracy.
Besides, even the highly complex mainline recruitment is random at times anyway and the card system was great with the exp/equipment/gold cards as well.
I personally think Persona would've been better off distancing itself from SMT mechanics further, rather than making it a simplified version. Though it feels like I am the only one who enjoyed the difference sometimes.
>>P5 dungeons are not an improvement just an equally bad alternative.
Are you really saying that P5's palace's were equally as bad as Tartarus
Some schizophrenic /smtg/ poster always accused random posters of being someone called Ryan, eventually he went to Yea Forums as well probably because /smtg/ wasn't giving him enough (you)s, just ignore him. Ryan doesn't exist
Praise.. Ryan..
Yeah, why would you think otherwise? Aside from the visuals and music, I personally cannot see anything to praise the dungeons in P5 for. They're not very in-depth, the layout is not interesting, they feel very clunky to traverse with constant interruptions and the puzzles are utterly pathetic with zero redeeming qualities.
The shadows/fights are the same and both of them drag on too long with calendar/event based progress locks, so that part is no different.
What did you like about them? Or feel that they did better?
>guns break the game
not even close to true unless you max out shinya's social link, and that's not available until late in the game anyway.
>negotiation is shit and incomparable to the layered complexity of mainstream SMT
i don't think they were trying to make it complex. the point is just to ease people into the mechanic so if/when they go on to try other megaten games, they won't be completely out of their depth with it. i'm still glad it's back even if it's not the greatest example of demon negotiations ever. shuffle time was unironically soulless.
>it's the weakest story yet with little pull or stakes for conflict
i can't say i agree with you there. p3's story is the worst in terms of terrible pacing and taking too long to truly get going. and yaldy was a way more menacing and memorable villain than anything p4 had to offer.
>heck even fucking 2 and Persona which had some batshit stories especially 2
satomi was a much better writer than anyone from the hackshino era, that's just a given.
>The characters are insufferable
i only found ryuji and makoto annoying, honestly. p5 also doesn't get enough credit for having some of the best characters in the series like sojiro, iwai, and tae.
>the card system was great with the exp/equipment/gold cards as well.
I highly disagree
>I personally think Persona would've been better off distancing itself from SMT mechanics further, rather than making it a simplified version.
I think that would be fine but I don't think changing negotiations to a card game is the way to go. Add even more elements that arent in mainline like with psi and nuke, bring back fusion spells, give social links an even greater impact, maybe even remove gun entirely for a different angle of attack. There's a bunch of ways they could go that I'd be cool with but a lot of P3's changes are ones that I didnt like
What exactly is the complexity of demon negotiation is P5? I've gotten through most of the game 70+ hours of which I can predict at least 20+ are waving through text boxes and GUIs into the last dungeon and have never died it's too fucking easy I exploit bullets and guns constantly.
My complaints of the story are pretty subjective P4 is homebase for me like I said though there is no stakes in 5 the stake is you getting expelled from the school wow what a high stake. 4 has serial killings 3 has literal death itself personified, 2 has hitler and some crazier shit toward the end and even 1 has the town and the fate of the main female character.
I feel like they didn't think through P5 enough storywise and instead obsessed over the sexualisation and mass marketability of the female cast is definitely paid off now though I can say that.
>Yeah, why would you think otherwise?
because tartarus is a tedious, boring, endless slog whereas they actually tried to design some dungeons in p5? i'm not saying every p5 dungeon is amazing, but nothing is worse than tartarus.
Unironically yes. Tartarus has replay value inherent to random generation, the floor bosses are a nice challenge, it builds a good mystery over the course of the game, the music progression is pure audio kino, and the tired system and return points create a nice risk/reward system where intense exploration grants more rewards, but also means you might tire out your party before the floor boss and have to wait for another night.
P5’s dungeons have zero replay value and the constant interruptions are irritating on a second run. The puzzles are brainlet tier. The aesthetics are barebones and have no subtext. The dungeon themes are too energetic considering the amount of time you’ll spend listening to them, making them tiresome. Palaces are the minimum quality that a constructed dungeon can possibly be, other than maybe P2’s complete fucking garbo dungeons. Mementos is like a shitty parody of what brainlets THINK Tartarus was like.
>P3fag admits he's a zoomer
This just keeps getting better, and better.
The design has some human touch and stays constant and understandable rather than being a meaningless maze of 2 colors that is pointless to try to solve or memorize because the next time you comeback itll be an entirely new meaningless maze of 2 colors.
P5's dungeons are far from perfect but I can't see anyway that you'd think tartarus is better, or even close to being on par.
I played P3 for the first time in 2015 and it's still my favorite persona game.
>there is no stakes in 5 the stake is you getting expelled from the school wow what a high stake. 4 has serial killings 3 has literal death itself personified, 2 has hitler and some crazier shit toward the end and even 1 has the town and the fate of the main female character.
Thats pretty disingenuous, P5 has a serial killer and plenty of "crazier shit toward the end" just because they arent immediately at the highest level doesnt mean its low stakes throughout
Nigga, Tartarus was literally a hallway copy and pasted over and over and over and over.
>because tartarus is a tedious, boring, endless slog whereas they actually tried to design some dungeons in p5?
Palaces are no less tedious, just as boring to explore (minus the visuals, which I admitted are an improvement) and you can never return to the Palaces in favour of a worse Tartarus anyway.
>rather than being a meaningless maze of 2 colors that is pointless to try to solve or memorize
I get your point about Tartarus, but that implies that there is a need to solve or memorize anything in P5's dungeons in the first place. Which is not the case as despite their human touch, they remain as simple as the procedurally generated static hallways in Tartarus.
I am NOT saying that Tartarus is a good dungeon, I am just saying that Palaces are not good dungeons at all either.
I feel like everyone who says Palaces were boring, want Persona to adopt open world elements. This isn't a fucking ARPG.
So what IS a good dungeon then user?
>Tartarus has replay value
Persona 1 had good dungeons.
You know you are comparing a 1st person dungeon crawler with a 3rd person dungeon crawler right?
The moment Man devoured the fruit of knowledge he sealed his fate. In trusting his future to the cards, Man clings to a dim hope. Yes, the Arcana is the means by which all is revealed. Beyond the beaten path lies the absolute end. It matters not who you are,
Death awaits you.
The conflict is kept to a minimum until the end definitely that's sort of my complaint by then there had better goddamn be a conflict to become invested in.
All other P games have a conflict from the start to the end, 1 traps you in a town so either way your forced to explore, 2 had the Joker which turned out not even to be the biggest conflict, 3 and 4 had conflicts throughout people are weirdly complianing about poor pacing in 3 when it actually integrates story progression with a tied conflict this pattern continues on to ALL future persona games.
The full moon motif is critical in P3 and weather is critical in P4, P5 vaguey copies this but only for mementos it bares no meaning for the actual story it's not well thought out. Look at the trailers for 3 and 4, 3 has the full moon symbol a reoccurring theme in the game 4 has weather fluctuations and ominous fog as well as T.Vs.
5 vaguely has masquerade masks that are deemed important by the cat because without them you'd lose your form or some shit then dropped one time when you go in mementos and no one realizes your wearing masks I despise how persona has to have a shitty b rate plot twist now because 4 popularized it. The costumes and masks are meaningless in P5 and only serve as an aesthetic change the glasses in P4 had function and looked trendy.
I don't even know why they bothered half assing masks if they weren't going to go anywhere with it.
p1 had a couple dungeons that were WAY worse than anything p5 had to offer, even the rat maze and airlock puzzles.
I think Ryan might actually be real though. There's been someone going around, sperging about "P5babbies" for weeks. His posting style is really recognizable too.
Yo, Ryan
.
I am not really, though those dungeon types would be greatly preferred to what we got. Perhaps the Legend of Zelda series then? They are by no means complex, however they handle the puzzle aspect and traversal/gameplay parts far better.
I do not play many third person dungeon crawling games, unfortunately.
I still haven't heard what you guys like about the palaces either, you've only been comparing them to Tartarus.
I don't recall anything particularly bad about that dungeon though? Pandora's World has a little too many dead ends though.
Are you sure your underestimating the number of people who just actually like P3?
Persona had some neat dungeons the forest one was pretty cool reminds me of SJ but less puzzles really I agree that the difference is not great between all dungeons if I had to order them it'd go
P3
That would be 4, actually. There's a noticeable difference in the way their floor layouts are generated. 3's are windy and tightly-packed, whereas 4's are long fucking hallways and mostly dead ends. Not saying 3 has godly generation or anything, but it's alright and doesn't waste your time. You people seriously overstate the tediousness of Tartarus without accounting for the fact that it's built to feel like a labyrinth that you have to pick your battles with. It's not hard to find the next floor if you just split your party or run past enemies. Half the time it's right next to your starting point. But it's up to you to decide if you have the resources to explore or if you have to blitz your way to the top before exhaustion sets in.
It literally does, by all definitions. Floors are random and your strategy has to change based on what you find, when you find it, and how fast you choose to ascend through the floors. What part of that isn't replayable, other than "I don't personally like it?"
Hee Ho
Reminder that /ourguy/ says 3 is his favorite Persona game, making it the de facto opinion of Yea Forums
Get naked now Ryan
>I don't recall anything particularly bad about that dungeon though?
>dude, just fall down an extremely specific pattern of holes in the ground, then do it all over again from the beginning, lmao!
the ice castle maze and deva yuga are also awful.
>yeah bro, persona 3 is like the saddest game eve--
>It literally does, by all definitions. Floors are random
it doesn't matter that the floors are random when literally every possible outcome is boring as fuck. tartarus doesn't add replay value, it removes it.
Fpbp
>Character arcs are borderline nonexistent with the exception of Junpei, Yukari, and Mitsuru
Still does better job at them than P4 or P5.
the p3 ending really is overrated shit compared to maya's death in innocent sin and tatsuya's whole storyline in eternal punishment.
It's just trial and error really, not that bad.
Hey get bent i love fuuka!
Youre dumb and wrong
I think 3's is more impactful directly on the player, since the game tries so hard to get you to connect with him. But yeah, he ultimately had a nice enough life with friends and loved ones who he died knowing he saved.
Whereas the entirety of IS is spent tearing down a bunch of children who were in over their heads and destroying their lives. Maya dies for nothing and the universe is only saved because Philemon got off his ass for once, then Tatsuya fucks it all up again just because he didn't want to be a schizophrenic mess living in a world he didn't belong in. The only "happy ending" for anyone in 2 is "gets to live in blissful ignorance at how much worse everything could have been."
>why yes i do find playing persona to be pointless when smt does everything it does but better.
I actually prefer the brainless hallways of P4 desu but you describing the complexity of searching really made me gain a bit for P3 it was pretty ambitious for its time, a lot of ballsy games came out in the early PS2 era with no standard set Atlus could really take chances with a pretty unique RPG/VN combo any fan of SMT/P5 and the like has to respect that shit it I really like how Persona became its own thing and carved out is own identity from mainline the autism of P5 obsessed weabs kind of ruined P5 for me but desu I had no strong opinion either way.
But the same thing exists for P5 you have the room where your team waits and you swap out tired members like in 3, you search for shit like in 3, you have preset boss battles like in 3. All the same mechanics remain but there's like staircases and bridges etc. Basically map fodder or pretty decoration. Also no mention of mementos?
Mementos is Tartarus but a little worse though I feel like no P5 Player even wasted time with mementos until they ran out of time to save a person last minute.
One of the most disappointing things was the removal of character specific persona oh god who brought that shit up fucking tragic. Fuck Maya's death that shits the real tragedy.
it's still tedious and is designed to pad out the playtime rather than being legitimately challenging.
>he universe is only saved because Philemon got off his ass for once
it isn't even saved. he literally just lets them go to an alternate universe and try again. then, at the end of eternal punishment, tatsuya still has to go back to the other side where nyarly won, the world is a smoldering wreck, and maya is dead.
>SMT? It's alright, but I find that Devil Summoner is the far superior series in every way.
youtu.be
This shit was sad it's debatable whether you'd consider it as sad as EP/IS
I unironically hate the persona games at this rate just because of the faggots it attracts and wish it wasn't even smt at this point. They're decent games but this isn't worth the fucking price.
>SMTV will inevitably be pushed to have more waifu bullshit, just like Apocalypse, as more senior staff leave out of sheer frustration with all the plebs
>P5 has the best soundtrack in the serie--
>Irrational hatred for persona games
I have this but only for 5 because it seems to be the most trite/mass marketable factory made shit in the series, there hasn't been a Persona to challenge SJ but I do still like the games for what they are and not what crowd they attract.
2 and 3 have the more powerful stories 4 and 1 have the best revamped/interesting though mostly derived from SMT:IF mechanics. 5 added nothing new to the table at all.
B-But... muh red and black color scheme... it's so flashy and makes me feel cool instead of any more complex emotions like fear or hope or trepidation... all I want is for my game to make me feel like a cool, clever phantom thief instead of a normal human being who has to overcome core human emotions
if it leads to more waifus like best girl nemissa, i 100% endorse this.
Nope I've developed it for 3-5 I think they're all decent games, good to great at times even. But I can't stand the shit flinging monkies it attracts.
Persona 3, while not perfect, had a lot of ambitious ideas, with characters that all had arcs, including all of the main cast and more importantly, nearly all of the social links. It had a clear theme and rewarded playing a bit like a sociopath to adhere to that theme.
Persona 5 is an extremely safe boring sequel that made lots of concessions to what JRPGs "should" be, with a god awful story and characters that go nowhere and waste your time.
>characters that are not (you), morgana, makoto, or futaba are hit or miss
>he doesn't like ryuji
>he doesn't like yusuke
>he likes makoto
>I have this but only for 5 because it seems to be the most trite/mass marketable factory made shit in the series
no, that's p4 by a country mile. it's literally persona: neptunia edition, designed for almost a decade of shilling.
yes, and anime emo jesus is such a normal human being that everyone can relate to.
P3 and P5 are opposites for me, P5 has such a fucking strong opening and the kamoshida arc is phenomenal, but nothing ever gets close to how good that arc was and after Futaba's dungeon the game really shits the bed in terms of pacing and it basically throws Haru under the bus due to time constraints. Really could've benefited from another month.
P3 has fucking amazing ending with the atmosphere from November onwards being godly and have some dynamite moments for nothing characters and writing. But before the shinji are the story goes nowhere and is just wheel spinning every month over and over. (Save for the chidori junpei stuff that was great.)
This. Specially that faggot that cries out for his bf Ryan.
>anime emo jesus is such a normal human being that everyone can relate to
I mean yeah, he is. He had tragedy early in his life that made him an introvert. He wears headphones everywhere, he doesn't introduce himself to people, and he's faced with the choice to either give up and accept fate or struggle against it anyway. The circumstances that lead him there are supernatural, but the conflicts are all internal.
P5's main character is a guy who directly intervened in a crime committed by a politician and was falsely accused of assault, which directly and externally gets him hauled off to another city. Not the most relatable thing but okay. Ultimately his struggle is one of waking up le sheeple masses who live in a society and use... CELL PHONES. And SOCIAL MEDIA. It's like the game was written by actual 50 year old boomers. The conflicts are all about what OTHER people are going through and whether or not he wants to continue trying to get everybody w o k e or just give up. Which is the exact same message as 3 at the end of the day, but far less relatable because it relies on seeing yourself as outside the system and above others rather than being a part of the system.
Fuck off or suck me off. Neptunia is WAY better than P4. That shit is literally JoJo part 4 but without sould and scooby doo.
>I can relate to a protagonist
Stop thinking you will ever amount to anything that resembles a protagonist.
>Neptunia is WAY better than P4
This is the worst opinion in this thread right there.
I liked persona 4 a lot, probably my overall favorite of the 3. might change my mind after p5r, but to be honest i'm really looking forward to catherine
>P5fag shitting on P3
Irony.
except p5's whole ending is a wake-up call to the phantom thieves that they aren't outside of the system or above others at all, and that they need society in order to get anywhere in life. in the end, it's up to professional adults to fix the issues with society, not a bunch of high school kids who think they know everything. that's pretty down-to-earth.
compare that to p3's ending, where anime emo jesus gets turned into a door with the power of friendship.
It has better characters and are a joke on purpose. The later tries to not be a joke and is just that. It is also many babies first persona so they defend it. Music is ok.
Literally everyone other than maybe complete sociopaths can relate to anxiety, fear of failure, and personal tragedy. Very few people can relate to being directly and definitively wronged by the system in the way that 5's protagonist is, you have to abstract it way more to get at how someone can relate to that. Unless you're like, a black dude living in the shithole south and getting pulled over by cops for no good reason, you've probably never had an authority figure directly fuck you over in that way. Whereas even if your parents aren't literally dead like the protagonist of 3, you've probably had a pet die, or an uncle, or something along those lines that gives you an understanding of how tragedy can make you shut down emotionally. Everyone has felt like they'd rather give up than continue to face hardship.
I mean, I guess everyone has also looked at twitter and gone "goddamn everybody is retarded except for me." But that's a bit less noble of an idea to base your protagonist around. Usually we discourage the idea of putting yourself above others as if you're immune to flock mentality.
>anime
Yeah you are just a dumb motherfucker. Stop calling it fucking anime you retard it is a Japanese game and you are on fucking 4channel on a Persona thread.
>adults fix this
Except they merely helped. That whole last part was a calculated risk and he was never in trouble since that shit was a shadow and not Joker. If anything things ran way too smoothly in 5 outside what, forehead's dad?
>wrote an entire paragraph about shit I never even adressed.
You completely missed my response and are confusing me with the retard you were replying to.
Kill yourself faggot.
Ah okay so you were just flinging insults around because you had no argument alright lol
I don't know what you think proves this. The entire game revolves around the fact that scumfucks continue to get away with everything they do unless someone operating outside of the system gets the work done. Yes, they're questioned on occasion, but those doubts always fall by the wayside in the face of the sheer scumminess of their targets. Yeah, they do accept that we still Live In A Society at the end, but the only arc in which they're really confronted with their own flock mentality is Okumura's, the absolute fucking worst arc in the game where a retarded-ass cat basically forces everyone's hand even when they all know they're walking into a trap. Had the team just fallen for the rigged poll, I would've understood it as an indictment of how quick they are to side with "public" opinion. But instead it's complicated with all this nonsensical garbage about Morgana feeling inferior, and Haru being forced into a marriage, all that shit. The actual ethics of the phantom thieves are, outside of the scant few scenes where Akechi (who's lying btw) questions them, never brought into significant doubt. They're vigilante rebels who save the world and get away with all the pretty visibly illegal shit they do because it was for the greater good.
It has been a while but can you save Chidori in FES again?
Yes. You just have to talk to Junpei and give him the right dialogue options on certain days. Encourage him to go see her in the hospital and all that.
Yeah you got to talk to junpei on certain dates and encourage him to not give up
pretty sure it isn't cannon though
>I don't know what you think proves this.
the whole reveal where it turns out they were just puppets in yaldy's rigged game, no different than akechi and the villains-of-the-week.
the final boss fight, where they aren't doing shit to yaldy until tokyo (as an analogue for society) starts cheering for them.
and then after the yaldy fight, i'm pretty sure sae even says at one point something to the effect of "you kids have done enough, now it's time for the adults to clean up society."
people who don't think the phantom thieves were taken down a few pegs either weren't paying attention or just didn't finish the game (or even play it to begin with).
now, i do agree that they weren't forced to question their methods enough. that is a legitimate flaw. there's actually some striking similarities between the phantom thieves and the masked circle from p2, who were antagonists. a smarter writing staff would have picked up on this and used it to their advantage.
ultimax actually confirmed it as canon.
Your whole argument that says we can be a protagonist because we can somehow relate to them on small scale doesn't make us one. We aren't protagonists of anything. We don't save other selflessly without any gain or revenge motives just like Joker did (fuck adults! and fuck the system!) as would any thot fucking a politician before he got tired of it and the people politicians usually pay off or frame. Which happens plenty irl. Point is I, you or anybody here is the protagonist of anything. NOW MOM WHERE ARE MY CHICKEN TENDIES?
>but it has better songs and characters.
Nah
Real shit? Ain't complaining chidori and Junpei's romance was my favorite part of P3
Why isn't it canon? Is Golden not canon then? Red period blood or whatever 5 is isn't either?
This faggot gets it.
yes. junpei wears a necklace that chidori gave to him as a gift after the events of the answer. he also dreams about how he's going to propose to her. so her revival is officially canon.
What is the best version of Persona 4?
>it turns out they were just puppets in yaldy's rigged game
And yet, they again win by going outside of the system and using physical force to kick someone's ass. They're not changing Yaldabaoth's system, or ethically proving him wrong, or using the system against him. They're just beating his fucking ass, which they're only able to do because... a flock mentality cheers them on to do so. The aim is to prove that people aren't just sheeple who will blindly follow along, but this is proven by having a literal crowd cheering for people in masks who they have plenty of reason to believe literally murdered a CEO in recent weeks. And how are adults going to clean up society? What means do they have? Yeah, you can pose the idea that higher powers will fix things, but I need some concrete answers if we're talking concrete, real-world shit like abuse of political power.
I just don't think a story about such nuanced things belongs in a JRPG. Despair is a universal concept and saying that hope defeats it is easy enough to buy, but 5 puts forward these really complicated ideas about how society works and it just becomes a confused metaphor when kids in masks with magic jojo stands are running around fighting shadow people. I don't mean that your interpretation is straight up wrong, but I do mean that it's not nearly as clean and effective as 3's ending. If you wanna be Deus Ex, then be Deus Ex, because otherwise you're asking questions you can't answer.
>all these votes for golden
Stupid-jerk-idiot-pleb-waifu-lover-retards!
Marie is fucking awful but the rest is nice and a welcome addition.
>And how are adults going to clean up society? What means do they have? Yeah, you can pose the idea that higher powers will fix things, but I need some concrete answers if we're talking concrete, real-world shit like abuse of political power.
Thats the point, it must be an effort, the PTs teaching society how to behave
Not like that can work anyway no matter how hard you try
Idk dude trivializing an already easy game to the point that you can use the starter persona the entire game, like I'm playing fucking Innocent Sin all over again, is maybe a step too far for me to say the gameplay has been definitively improved.
>nostalgia boner
i played it for the first time last year though
>Tactics are borderline "artificial difficulty"
you speak as if P3 is difficult in the first place
>Character arcs are borderline nonexistent with the exception of Junpei, Yukari and Mitsuru
Aigis, Ken, Akihiko and Shinji too, even if the latter involves dying. Ergo, pretty much every major character gets a character arc, I do not understand your complaint
>The Answer absolutely tarnished the impact of the ending
It actually didn't. It actually didn't do shit, besides show the MC as a door in the end. I am convinced almost no one actually played The Answer.
>Tartarus has to be one of the worst designed dungeons period
Persona overall doesn't has good dungeons. Even in Persona 5, they're just hallways with Quck Time Events. These days you can't have good dungeons without a toddler somewhere crying "backtracking" as if backtracking was somehow bad.
>The villains were pure shit
The villains in all 3 post-Cozy Persona games are always top garbage.
I am getting the impression whover originally wrote this complaints is under the impression that somehow Persona 4 or Persona 5 are more than just cashgrabs targeting the lowest common denominator. It's like watching pigs argue which flavor of shit is better.
Here, you mouth breathing retard. In red all the things that involve marie, in green literally everything else. I hope someone makes a vita emulator soon, the public opinion will do a 180 the second you can play it.
>And yet, they again win by going outside of the system and using physical force to kick someone's ass.
no they don't. they literally need the system to start cheering them on in order to do any real damage to yaldy. they're not operating outside the system, they have the backing of the system.
>And how are adults going to clean up society? What means do they have?
that's left open-ended on purpose. p5 is meant to be a critique of japanese society and wake-up call to adults that they're failing their children by constructing such a fucked-up society. there's a reason why some, if not all, of the villains-of-the week are actually based on real news stories from japan. they're not going to show a montage of sae and yoshida magically fixing everything, because the goal is to make the players think about what they can do to help make society better in the real world.
>gameplay changes
>third of the list has nothing to do with the gameplay
Nobody said Marie was the only problem. "More content" does not mean "better game" by default, especially in a game that was already way too slow paced and took too long to let you get into the actual gameplay loop.
Also Chie's new VA fucking blows.
Oh jesus fucking christ, it's you again.
That's not what she said last night.
I'll give you that new Chie VA makes me wanna have a botched circumcision.
What is the point of Persona 5 R, if Hifumi isn't a phantom thief.
Difficulty levels are handled horribly in Persona 3+. Due to the schudeling, making enemies HP sponges only means that it takes more SP to kill them. This wouldn't be bad if you didn't had to stop dungeoning in order to refill SP early on, and fucking up your early schudle can have long term repercusions until a method to gain SP is available. In P3 it isn't so bad as it's strictly at night and there isn't as much stuff to do, but in P4 and P5 where dungeoning takes up the entire day it can get rough. It's rather punishing to finish a dungeon in more than 2 days.
Sure, but leaving things open is, in my mind, a bit too ambiguous and lofty a concept to get at in a game that's so on-the-nose about things, namely its symbolism. 2001 has an ambiguous ending, but it's not preceded by two hours of goofy action scenes. An ambiguous ending implies ambiguous morality, ambiguous characters, ambiguous potential futures. Whereas something attempting to incite direct social change can't just leave off on "keep trying to change stuff." People are already trying to change things. The issue is that the means needed to push for change are hard to pin down. Is violence necessary? Is peace better? These are real world issues, but P5 doesn't get into whether or not using force was for the better. In the end, I'd say it implies it was.
Maybe it's because I'm not Japanese, but I can't imagine any society in which there isn't constant, active push for societal change. Everyone has their own ideal way for things to be. But I see absolutely zero impact in a story that says "man, society is FUCKED up" but then leaves it to me to decide how I should go about fixing that issue. I'd have to be an utter buffoon to not understand that premise to begin with.
I'd say P2 has the exact same premise, with a world wherein the irresponsible spread of misinformation can cause societal collapse. But it actually puts forward a solution, that being "pick your battles, some things are better left unsaid and coverups can be for the good of society." Which maybe you don't agree with, but it's more gutsy than 5.
>18 votes for vanilla
I know you fucks love to be contrarian, but there's a difference between being a contrarian and being a fucking retard. You clearly went too far this time.
the biggest problem with golden is that's on the Vita.
So basically
>Akechi kills potter-kun to try and make it look like a murder suicide
>its actually his metaverse self
Yes
>Also reminder, if you see anyone praising P3, they're likely some clown called Ryan from /pg/
Yeah, you're right. Anyone who likes Persona 3 is from your autistic /vg/ circlejerk. You cracked the god damned case