Should devs cater to the hardcore community?

Should devs cater to the hardcore community?
Was this what made MMORPGs great?

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they should make things more challenging, yes.
that is not what made old mmorpg's enjoyable, no.

Devs should cater to the hardcore community but not at the expense of the rest of the community or rest of the game. Adding more challenging content is fine, but do not make such content the entire endgame. Do not make ridiculous grinds and massive, incredibly difficult raids with high gear requirements the only thing to do at end game.

To this day I personally feel like the only games to get it right are SWG and CoH.

>reddit screencap
just fucking kill yourself op

Isn't this what difficulty modes in raids are for?

Remember when Tigole and buddies ruined Everquest by clearing the top raid content as fast as they could and then whining like petulant children for more, despite being a tiny fraction of the population?

Remember when they became devs at WoW and did the same thing, despite raiders being a tiny fraction of the population? And how raiding is still considered THE endgame activity? And how they had to add things like 10 mans, Flex and LFR to get more people to raid because raiders were and still are a minority of the population?

Remember when Wildstar sold itself as the game hardcore Vanilla WoW raiders wanted and then flopped because hardcore Vanilla WoW raiders are not a viable market share because they were always the minority?

No. Fuck the hardcore community. They're a self important cancer who don't realize they're a bunch of fucking nobodies.

Have manners.

Cringe, but redpilled.

Please fucking kill yourself.

>this guy thinks he is hardcore
WoW is casual garbage, has been since it came out.
Try and go beat a literally impossible raid in a 2002 Korean mmo then speak to me try hard faggots

pretty much this
wow was always casual shit

>My first ever silver is dedicated to everyone who knows (and has) what it takes.

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It's a difficult line to walk because on one hand, you want to listen to the opinions of the consumers, but on the other hand, if you start letting them dictate everything you do the product will go to shit.

The poster in your image refers to time spent for a raid. Time isn't an indication of quality and without knowing why it requires time, you can't really use it to claim difficulty.
It might mean that there exists some mandatory grind for example (which was the case for some old raids in WoW). Gatekeeping just because someone hasn't spent endless hours to grind some mandatory item is the wrong way to do it.
But since I have no idea about what exactly the image is talking about, could you explain why this raid is supposedly so difficult?

NIGGER

Be respectful.

>impossible raid in a 2002 Korean mmo
post some im curious

Jesus fucking christ, this has got to be the cringiest thing I've read, in a long time.

I still find it funny that Tigole got hired by Blizzard simply because his resume said "I used to world prog in everquest"

Agreed

I played in an average raiding guild from the start of Vanilla until the end of WotLK and we cleared most of the game's content but we never cleared anything immediately at launch.

We always cleared content near the end of that tier before the new content patch was about to come out.

How many people actually clear things at launch today? Surely it's not that many.

To be fair none of you weaklings could have handled EQ raids tho.

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I'm and the guild I played with was full of people who raided in EQ for years

>well no but i played with some people who did/claimed they did
ok?

All I'm saying is we weren't some hardcore guild, pretty average by WoW standards and most people were EQ raiders.

>We always cleared content near the end of that tier before the new content patch was about to come out.
Did you enjoy getting wiped due to retards?
Watching their subpar dps?
Tacts barely being followed?
Tanks turning their backs to enemies?
Healers going oom due to overheal?

>Blackwing Lair
I didn't know what that was and assumed it was an EQ raid because I'm an idiot, but it's WoW. We used to gank raid groups on Rallos Zek, I wonder if that makes me more hardcore than this fag. Probably not, since I quit MMOs after about two months on WoW. The last "good" mmo was Shadowbane.

>im hardcore i beat BWL
fucking kek that guy probably never even stepped foot into naxx

having hardcore content is a necessity but developers also can't focus all their time and effort on content that only a small % of the playerbase will see

Sure I had a good time

Runescape is more hardcore than wow

Games with raid bosses whose health regen could get as high as the max damage they could take per tick were not uncommon.

Console players outright cannot track enemies fast and accurately enough to kill them and win. While console players as players are usually subpar casuals to begin with, their control method is simply too horrible to beat this raid.

They should focus on making an enjoyable game, not catering to forum loudmouths.

Someone post the YT slumber parties screenshot.

Please, be so kind to end your life.

>wow raids
>complex
>99% of vanilla raids were you standing in 1 spot , auto attacking and doing nothing

tedious =/= challenging

Imagine these people trying to play FFXI where you had to time stunchains, skillchains, magic bursts, etc.

Interesting argument. I’d still contend that you need these hardcore activites in a game but don’t necessarily have to devote all your resources to them.

It’s been said before but one major aspect of MMOs is becoming stronger and better, and in many settings becoming a hero. Heroes don’t just waltz into the position, they’re forged and tempered through pain and challenges. Having no hardcore endgame content means that everybody gets to be one of the heroes for free, which is unsatisfying.

I’d rather play a game that I have to work at to become the cream of the crop, or accept I never will be and hold those who are, in high regard; rather than play an easy MMO where I walk into the final boss, press two buttons and then quit the game forever

>Having no hardcore endgame content means that everybody gets to be one of the heroes for free, which is unsatisfying.
Except that's the entire point of MMOs. You don't have to be good, you don't have to get good, all you have to do is invest time. The people who play MMOs aren't playing them to be the best, they're playing them to brag about how much time they've wasted.

I'd rather play an MMO where shitters are eternally blocked from the final boss because they aren't good enough, while some random guy at level one can solo the boss by being good at the game. But that's not the audience MMOs are made for.

I haven't played older korean mmos, but Lineage2, for example. There are epic dragons. There are no instances. There are no soulbound, everything can be sold. I don't remember prices, but i think wow's legendary-like neck(was it neck or earring?) from Valakas used to cost like $10k. They are spawning, iirc, 1 week after being killed +/- 12 hours or something. You needed about 200 players to kill it(the value was changing every fucking patch). YOU HAD TO FUCKING PVP 200V200V200 FOR 12 FUCKING HOURS UNTIL IT RESSES FOR A CHANCE TO ENTER AND LOCK ROOM FOR YOUR COMMAND CHANNEL. The fight itself could take 6-12 hours on top of that because balance was completely different since there was no balance, you was just dying constantly, losing about 2-4hours of grinding for every death on the top spot that you also had to compete.

launch upper blackrock spire was the peak of WoW difficulty and the best raid in that game

>This is the console community

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dear god

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God you were right and Noah was wrong
Please break your promise and send another flood.
The Pig fucking cannibals and Giants weren´t even nearly as annoying as gaymers

Lineage 2 holy shit the pvp in that game was insane,the massive sieges and PKing in general.

No, because "hardcores" are literally impossible to please. Hardcore is another term for whiner.

What are you even doing on the videogames board you miserable pile of pig shit? Kys

>casuals have 95% of game content available to themselves to enjoy
>keeping the remaining 5% of game only to the most hardcore players is unfair

cope

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On the contrary, raiding was such an organized shitshow in classic wow that so few people actually accomplished it. That's what made it impressive. The raids themselves weren't difficult but organizing 40 people to show up at the exact same time despite being all over the world was a logistics nightmare for anyout outside of hardcore raid guilds. The raids themselves took about 40-60 minutes but the assembly was like 2 hours of smoke breaks and interruptions and vent issues.

It's not only important that I succeed, others must fail to add weight to my success.

He never said that. He said that casuals shouldn't get fucked just because hardcore exists. Look at what happened to WoW when it became raidlogging: the game, you dumb slut.

That can't be real

based and raiderpilled

Lineage 2 was the last hurrah of oldschool mmo games. Also had the best dark elves.

have sex

MMOs need to hit a balance. You need something hard for the poop-stockers to bite on for a while yet something that more casual players can work their way to eventually.

Was pretty annoying when my Siren's boots of Insanity were outclassed by some goo boots from a revamped cz.

Ideally every boss and story moment should be accessible by everyone, even if it's a bit tough, but there should be Mythic/Savage/whatever versions for people who want a real challenge.

Question from a boomer eq and vanilla wow raider:

Do the different tier difficulty raids (same maps, npcs) really motivate people to step up?

A big draw and reason for pushing ourselves I remember was just for seeing this stuff

In modern MMOs, mainly Wow, Destiny, and FF14 from personal experience, higher difficulty tiers change the fights with new mechanics not just higher numbers. In some cases the fight is the same generally but in a lot of cases the fight and strategies to beat the fight change drastically

>vanilla raids

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