One of the most complicated and high skill ceiling games ever made

A game can be ruined by factors primarily outside of the gameplay. In the case of dota, it takes far far too long to find a match in primetime (10+ minutes is unacceptable), only for it to have nobody who even speaks the same language and maybe even a guy who gives up in pick/ban phase.

I just don't have the patience or schedule to sit through a 10 minute queue (can be even longer if someone forgets to accept) for a 25-50 minute game that may not even be enjoyable.

You can't have a free game without a region lock

I don't like luck based mechanics or having to rely on the random dice roll that is solo-queuing in a team game.

The games take anywhere from 30-50 minutes, with a few outliers. Meaning you get stuck with your team for the entire duration of the match. Better hope you don't get flamers or trolls.
You're going to get matched with literal children, since most wageslaves would rather de-stress after waging for 8-12 hours a day after work.
Dota 2 is not an easy game, and is much worse if you have Vladimir and/or Esteban on your team screaming to let them play midlane. There are way more enjoyable games to play, even multiplayer ones.
t. played for 4k+ hours

is DOTA2 dead? I'm guessing it has 9,000 concurrent players. 10 minutes is ridiculous

mobas are pure shit.
that wc3 mod was a mistake

Only NA queue is dead, EU queue is thriving

Mobas are the battle royales of the early 2010's

Having two shops doesn't add any sort of depth to the gameplay, it's just needless tedium.
One thing like about this game is the courier though, it's a neat addition that requires you to coordinate with your team to really get the most out of.

Only los goblinos, Europe has like a 20s queue most of the time, Russians aren't as bad as peruviana, not even remotely.

>playing with randos is annoying
>warding, stacking, and other annoying chores
>overly monetized
Still breddy good, especially when playing as a fun allowed character like Timbersaw. Have not played since 2016; should I re-download?

i felt like they ruined with 7.00 but i think its gotten better lately, been playing more often now

>slow
if youre autistic you can just play turbo mode

I used to think like this. But then I remembered that the other team is likely in the same circumstance. It has an odd way of working itself out where your team's shitness is countered by their team's shitness and you end up going head to head with their carry player.

I dropped the game when they started to turn it into a hero brawler and the 7.00 update guaranteed I'll never come back

I miss classic Dota.

Reminder that Dota has better gameplay than weebshit, like Persona and Nier.

Depends on where you live. The Russia and Chinese servers are bustling obviously. However, because I live on the west coast of the US, it is much worse (our continent is split into 2 servers down the middle, and both are filled with more spics than people from US/Canada). Even at "meh" MMRs like 4-5k you would be getting ridiculous queue times and lopsided matchmaking with large MMR differentials within teams which leads to often unsatisfying games.

>overly monetized
in what way?
t. hasn't spent a single dollaridoo on the game

Its not but ok.

The controls are shit and the sound design annoys me

>saturation of low quality obnoxious skins
>40$ arcanas
>rick and morty announcer and other cancer
>compendiums are overpriced
There are much more monetized games out there, and DOTA2 has the free excuse unlike say MK11; but, it is still an annoyance.

>The controls are shit
Leaguebabby spotted.

Smite actually. All the other ASSFAGGOTS feel clunky and imprecise in comparison.

Play Pango and Wisp, they have no turn rate.

i played a lot of dota2.
takes too much mechanical, time, mental and spiritual effort to let it into your life.

it felt heavy as a neet, can't play it while having a day job. if you can, good for you.

so you're saying that by allowing people to spend money on a title it is overly monetized? you're actually retarded, user... if your complaint had been about shit like dota+ it would have made more sense

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it's not fun to play for 40 minutes and lose because some peruvian teenager had a temper tantrum or threw or just did something idiotic and unexplainable like getting caught out of position on the other side of the map

>mobas are pure shit.
>t. person who has never played a moba

>But then I remembered that the other team is likely in the same circumstance.
>you end up going head to head with their carry player.
Not really. The whole game becomes the competition between retards on "who can throw harder".

The whole moba genre is broken by default.
It's ten times easier to make massive negative impact than to make small positive impact.
If you think in number it would be something like
>"-5" impact for terrible game
>"+1" impact for average game
>"+2" impact for near perfect game
and that is terrible design.
No fucking wonder everyone is toxic.

i think he means over they sell a fuckton of cosmetics and basically half of them are way to annoy everyone who plays the game, like that fucking caster voicelines.

mobas can suck my balls

Dota+ is good, though.

>playing nufun shit

it's incredibly toxic because they force matchmaking on players. before LoL and Dota 2, when the genre was called ASSFAGGOTS instead of MOBA you exclusively played with teams or friends. playing with randoms was setting yourself up for failure and shit talking.

Played when it was in beta for a few hundred hours mainly against "advanced" bots.

I'm not really good at strategies so I quit playing and now I mainly follow the competitive scene, always very entertaining if you know the game and you got some teams to cheer for.

Community is extremely unwelcoming to new players.

Who is favored to win TI this year?

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I can only play hardest difficulty bot matches because I don't have to deal with people speaking russian or trolling each other. Plus I can leave anytime I want without getting banned or a rank reduction.

complaining about the monetization of dota+ is still a lot more valid of a complaint than yelling at valve for making skins and announcers or complaining that you can't reach level 2,000 on your battlepass without buying levels. because none of it, EXCEPT dota+, has anything to do with the game

I don't hate the game, or even it's monetization. I only said it's a flaw of the game.
Valve is so desperate to nickle and dime the customer base that they let this slide
>edgy Wind for no reason
>completely antithetical to the top-bottom increasing colour depth originally mandated by Valve themselves
>poor modelling work

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That's what i'm saying.
It happens because design is trash.
It only works if you are in 5 player team.

But solo que is the "main way" to play. And that just doesn't work.

That's playing to win, baby!
That's playing to win, baby!

I wish I could like this game again. It's just so stressful and unfun when you lose, and not very rewarding when you win. After 3000 hours I had to stop.

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>Having two shops doesn't add any sort of depth
there is a reason for that:
if the enemy locks you inside your base, you can't finish big items like hex or rapier

Addiction to this game robbed me of my late teens and early twenties.

I got tired after 500 hours because you could tell how a game was won or lost by the 20 minute mark. comebacks never happened unless someone on the other team leaves or they refuse to push early with push oriented heroes for some stupid reason.

LAKAD MATATAAAAG! Normalin. Normalin.

I almost always close down the game if I win. Losing makes me wanna play the game more.

comeback wins are the most delicious wins you can ever have, especially when the enemy team has some shitposter

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>you could tell how a game was won or lost by the 20 minute mark. comebacks never happened

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I would say VP or Secret, maybe VG or LGD as well

comebacks happened but very rarely. but then again this was back when I played in 2015. I'm sure it has changed by now but I don't care about the game anymore, the formula gets old.

Character design in dota2 is fucking trash.
Like complete garbage.

Hots on the other hand has very good character design, too bad the game itself is trash.

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It's living proof that Yea Forums is casual as fuck.

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Unless you are down by 20k at 30 minutes or something ridiculous, comebacks are incredibly common. There have been 30k deficit comebacks in pro games.

i only play high iq games

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>overly monetized
fucking lmao

>game purposefully dumbed down because people were bad at RTS games
>bros it's so complicated

Can you imagine playing a genre that was literally created because people were too stupid for another genre

I find a game in 20 seconds as a US East player. I'm 4k MMR which from what I understand is like 99% of the playerbase so that's probably why I find games fast. If you're 5k/6k it's probably harder to find games.

too many fucking unnecessary changes and reworks. I doubt icefrog even works on the game anymore

>Character design in dota2 is fucking trash.
Weak bait.

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It was around 2015 when they started making comebacks easier. I deffo remember from the early days that if you lost your safe lane and theirs carry riced the SHIT out of that lane and jungle, you pretty much lost the game.

Nowadays you can comeback from big decifits, as long as you chain your ultimates correctly and your lineup isn't total dog shit.

not in the pugs I played in back then. but like I said before this was a long time ago so I have no reference for what happens now. if comebacks happen more often now then that's cool, but I still hate the formula and community for this game.

... until 7.00 ruined it all

what if in the 10+ year timeframe in which icefrog has directed the game his opinions on what is necessary have changed and yours havent

>VP or Secret
>Not choking at TI
It'll be LGD.

The downhill started shortly after the game came out of beta.

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>posting fanart of shitty bootleg jaina
Why you didn't post the in-game model?
Because it looks like trash.

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I'm too lazy to get back into the game because they changed so many items and heroes that I can't be bothered to relearn the game.

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Did you not watch last year's TI? LGD got BTFO by OG of all teams.

>most complicated and highest skill ceilings
>most heroes have 4 abilities, many are passives

I'm gonna assume troll but in case you're not, play any RTS game

whatever happened to custom games? i remember people were making a huge deal about it saying it was going to be the return of warcraft 3 custom modes.

Cope.

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Dota is the only game ever that I'd rather watch than play. It's even more crazy that anything they add actively makes me want to play less, but watch more. Like while I'm playing the sounds they added are so annoying (LAKAD MATATAAAAAAAAG) but when I'm watching and pro players are spamming it I fucking laugh like crazy. It's pure fun.

They didn't get BTFO they took it all the way to game 5, and had OG on the ropes for the most of the last game until Ana's Ember came online. It was extremely close. I feel like they're still hungry for that win.

Meanwhile Secret and VP were fucking pathetic last TI, as they are every TI.

>>VP or Secret
>>Not choking at TI
>It'll be LGD.
true VP has been a Favorite since TI7 byt end up choking every time, but I was just listing the teams that are doing the best this season

I wouldn't call a 3-2 btfo

Heroes of the Storm stuff is over-designed, relative to canon non-skin DOTA stuff

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Why the fuck would I spend hours of my time autistically memorizing a bunch of arbitrary bullshit like stats/builds/items/matchups, what a complete waste of fucking time. If I want to play something competitive I'll pick a game that respects my time and doesn't expect me to memorize arbitrary nonsense for hundreds of hours to be proficient at it. For example Lethal League Blaze has deep mechanics and a high skill ceiling, but it's very intuitive and you can learn as you play without memorizing numbers and stats.

You are coping here.
With your shitty chinese copies of the characters.

It's an utter mess to make anything unique because of how the game is built.

its not an rts

They threw a 20k gold lead in game 5. That is the definition of getting BTFO.

She looks like a man, honestly. I blame Blizzard's pathetic love for stupidly love pauldrons which make females look like they have a male body type.

For fuck's sake look at Sven here , he's a berserker-warrior and even he has smaller pauldrons than Jaina. That's fucking sad.

There's an arcade jam fucking packed with custom games using Dota 2 assets

>what's your excuse

Dota 2 pre-reborn and 7.00 best MOBA on the market.

Dota 2 post reborn and 7.00 worse MOBA on the market.

Even Smite is better than current Dota 2.

I like Dota but I can't fucking rank up

If I go on too much of a losing streak it counts every loss meaning I have to try to get 10 or 20 games of wins in a row

It's fucked

>LGD
>Game 5 of the Grand Finals
>Compared to Secret and VP who were highly favored going into TI8 who placed so low I forgot where they even placed

I don't really care for Chinese teams but at least China shows up for TI. Secret and VP have consistently been pathetic jokes at TI every year in spite of impressive placings in Majors.

HoN got rid of the secret shop and it didn't really change much. Being forced to turtle is already a big enough punishment by having less access to gold while the enemy team eats your jungle.

The game of the year was literally created in Dota's Custom Game section back in January. Auto Chess is god tier.

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Pushing high ground is really hard for the enemy team, unless they have heroes like Terrorblade, Pugna, etc.

>VP
lmao

Most default skins are pretty tame, but still look 20 times better than dota's bootleg.

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Wrong and gaypilled

Valve trademarked another DotA subgame, people are expecting Artifact expansion OR Autochess game

Model quality hots win. Character design dota does better.

>still no option to hide all cosmetics

it literally takes 1 braincell to disable cosmetics

they should make a dota crpg

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Cope.

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They reportedly asked the Chinese guys who developed the Custom Game if they wanted to make a standalone version, but the Chinese turned them down to make their own mobile game. I wouldn't be surprised if Valve threw up their hands and said "Fuck it, we'll make our own Auto Chess with blackjack and hookers".

FER SELEMENE

>Playing MOBA Garbage
Shit taste

DotA skins >>>> any other game skins
No other game has as much ambient effects, particles, jigglebones/cloth and different effects.

IMO DotA has the best system to make an ARPG like PoE and Diablo. It has all the assets and a great engine to do it. One custom game I played was a pretty good ARPG which even had saves.

Yea Forums is bad at videogames that require skill

AND THA DARK MEWN

I keep getting the temptation to go back to Dota. I don't know if it would be a good idea. I haven't played in almost 4 years and I wasn't even good back then.

You are too embarrassed to post the in-game models. I take it as a win.
Have fun with your bootleg.

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F
Only assfaggots worth a damn
>inb4 people who can’t handle micro get butthurt and reply

Mirana a better, and is funner to play as long as you can actually hit non-autoaim attacks

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don't. game is so different now that its overwhelming to get up to speed with everything again. it's like not playing yugioh in 10 years and trying to get back into it today.

After her shotgun build got nerfed, she hasn't been very good.

Its boring

it's so fun to just shred entire groups of people in teamfights as luna though

and that moment when you finally get to highground and your glaives bounce through all the rax and wells, what a feeling

Its not fun at all and I got yelled at in russian the only game I ever played.

For me it's Jekiro

FREEZE
AND BURN!

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>need to relearn the game every six months
>flooded with obnoxious cosmetics like every other valve game

i redownloaded it for ti, and my game involved a jungler, a PA and bounty who insisted on laning together and letting me (jakiro) try to solo a lane with 2 people in it.

The only good part is that everyone was defeatist and helped us lose by minute 21.

What's the point in rolling the dice in matchmaking for a 1/5 chance for a decent game?

It's not fun.
If I wanted to put hundreds of hours into mastering something difficult that brought me no joy I would get a fucking job.

fpbp unironically. Dota 2 isn't even a video game; it's a people grinder, but make sure you pay up for those battle pass levels like a good goy. You DO want the prize pool for TI to be as high as possible, right? And you DO want to vote for which hero you get to purchase an arcana for, right anons? Now BUY MORE LEVELS, SPIN THE WHEEL, AND COLLECT YOUR SHITTY, WORTHLESS, "RARE" IMMORTALS

The duality of Dota

I started playing again since TI is coming up and I get in the mood for Dota. Played Visage 2 games. The first game was a complete disaster, we lost in 20 minutes and everyone on the team fucking hated each other. Like the very first minute we were all fucking pissed and calling each other cocksuckers.

The second game was perfect. It lasted 35 minutes and we swept through the enemy, were patient going highground, and were constantly complimenting one another, everyone handing out commends like candy at the end of the game.

That's just the way it goes.

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yeah when its good its good. But i can't even unmute teammates which is another problem , because usually they are unconstructive with anything they say.

When its ranked I'll keep coms open, but people are still so fucking defeatist when the mode is for people are 'trying' to win.

playing support is just announcing to the world that you suck mechanically

I love it when two retards try to outretard each other.

Makes for fun games.

BY DE BLOODY PINION

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Oracle, Wisp, and Earth Spirit are the most mechanically intensive heroes in the game.

post em

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>oracle wisp
based bait poster

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are you smoking crack?

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This.

got tired of it after 2500 hours
it ruins lives
still watching TIs

>uninspired chars

Old post but fuck you. Dota has plenty of flaws but it's character design is amazing. Sorry they don't just make knock off anime protagonists like league does.

its boring

I really liked HotS before they started trying to dumb it down to a pure hero brawler by reworking or nerfing actually interesting heroes like Assmodan or TLV.
Here's another bursty damage dealer with a gap closer and some form of sustain :^) fuck you blizz

Based Archon poster.

Oracle is not hard or mechanically intensive.

Because it killed Mike Ross.

a lot of my friends have really delicate egos so they get a ton of anxiety from playing, lashing out during losing games, etc. I think it was a mistake to introduce them to this game at this point, even if they have a lot of fun with it, because I think it's decreasing their quality of life

>Support

Huh?

I only play CHADkiro Mid

all the dumbass diablo multiplayer games suck shit. they're all the same clicking simulator

Team games require teamwork. 1 shitter = loss of game, especially where the numbers count.

Now if its 100 vs 100 and 1 team mate shits out, you can still make up the difference.

im tired of this meme, just play carry

>they get a ton of anxiety from playing, lashing out during losing games,
People I play with do this too, and they're fucking archon, it boggles my mind when almost every single person who plays this game has to pretend to be an expert when they're demonstrably dogshit at it

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iirc
>Mirana 90/55%
>CM 85/65%
>Timbersaw 75/65%
>Phoenix 60/55%
>Beastmaster 55/50%
>Venge 50/50%
>Slardar 40/45%
Chaos Knight and Nightstalker are both around 30/80%; but, are way down the list with a bunch of other characters I suck (~45%) at, such as Earth Spirit, Pugna, and Tide, inbetween them and Slardar

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I have to be 1.5x better than other team's carry to make up the difference. That's just dumb.

Complicated != good
Dota is full of arbitrary bullshit that makes no sense. That's not what a good game is.

Real talk I'm legit too fucking stupid to play earth spirit

I don't understand how any of his abilities work or how to use them effectively

give one example

legacy mode running 6.82 when?

>queue eu
>get 3 russians
>they play like literal monkeys
>lose
id probably play again if region lock was a thing

>someone ?s after every kill
>don't respond
>win the game
>?

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The worse you are at dota the angrier you get from what i've personally experienced

I've personally lost some friends because they were completely fucking autistic and thought they were experts despite being ~1-2k at the time, no clue wtf the ranking system is now

Because I have to go to uni. Maybe if i sat in my room all day I would waste years and 10 hours a day playing the same repetitive garbage over and over not to ever see a dime from it though

>Turn speed

And for that reason I'm out

This is why I play Dota.

HoN during its peak was better, and no one is playing it anymore.

he's basically a crowd control hero. can silence group of enemies, stun group of enemies, knockback enemies into punishable positions or kick allies to chase enemies or save them from harm. his ultimate forces the enemy team to avoid the magnetize zone which further manipulates how you can control their movement.

>During its peak
Which is ironically when Icefrog was helping in its development.
The best thing about HoN was its netcode. Some small indie company and it was still the smoothest gameplay I've ever experienced online.

Icefrog quit rather soon into the beta. Nome was a better hero designer than IF could ever hope to be.
When Nome left then shit went south real quick

just another level of depth. whats wrong with it?
gives heroes weight instead of the weightless 2D sprites in league that turn on a dime

Nah. Nome was a little bitchboy who cried when Icefrog left and accused him of killing HoN because he knew S2 and him would ruin everything without him, which is what they did.

The heroes Icefrog were around to help develop were all good. There were a few post Icefrog (Chipper, Flux) but for the most part they all soon went to garbage and were embarrassingly balanced.
Nome crying all the time about Icefrog will always be a fond memory though.

Also makes melee carries viable.

Play Pango and Wisp, they have no turn rate.

How can you even say all that shit when IF has completely ruined D2? Its a shadow of the game it once was during release.

Eventually I got bored of it but I had fun with it along the way.
Offlane was my destiny.

Am I the only one that plays the online bot matches in Dota? It get a ton of anxiety if I start playing against humans on the other team, but feel fine if its bots even if its unfair/cheating difficulty mode.

>when the genre was called ASSFAGGOTS instead of MOBA
some guy on Yea Forums came up with ASSFAGGOTS way after LoL was released, maybe even after dota 2
maybe you're thinking of AOS

MOBAs are fucking boring and unsatisfying. If I want something skill intensive I'll play DMC, if I want something complicated I'll go to fucking work in the morning.

'completely ruined' is a laughable exaggeration. It's honestly so different it's hardly comparable. I would be interested to see how a 'Dota Classic' would hold up, however.

>DMC
>Skill intensive

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IF doesn't have a lot of say in D2 development anymore I guarantee it.

i use it to practice hard heroes like arc, meepo, ld it can be comfy

This would imply that Valve give a fuck enough about Dota 2 that they would want to update it. I'd argue it's the exact opposite -- he's the last person left at Valve who actually gives a fuck about Dota. There's even insiders outright saying Valve are getting annoyed having to do TI every year and that TI10 will return to Seattle and be the final one.

But each team isn't guaranteed to get a retard each game. The game basically starts out with a coin flip to see if one side gets the retard, in which case they are all but guaranteed to lose. Even when both teams get a retard, it's generally decided by which retarded is more retarded rather than which retard has the more skilled teammates to carry them.

Think of it like this. If you've ever watched an extremely high skill level player in a moba start a new account and climb the ranked ladder, they generally win like 80% of their games and climb very fast. Now that sounds pretty impressive at first, but think about the remaining 20%. One out of every 5 games their teammates will still be so bad that even one of the best players in the world can't manage to win. No think how futile it is for an average player who actually belongs down at that rank to be able to carry a bad team. You're generally lucky if you can sway the results by even just 5% and slowly climb the ladder with a 55% win rate.

What's your excuse for still playing this shit?

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the documentation is FUCKING GODAWFUL, you have to have genuine autism to do a solid game

plus it has terrible models generally, everything that's not a extremely overpronounced hero model is a extremely underpronounced jungle creep, a courier that doesn't even have attack animations and generally looks like a plushie, or is one of like 5 summons the game has

Nah Valve took the reigns from IF and started adding all the casual shit. Comeback gold/xp, everyone hits high level pretty much no matter what, cheaper wards/tps, everyone forced more toward early fighting.

Get your own models then retard, people port touhou and anime shit all the time, the Dota models aren't even bad for party games and tower defence.

Nah IF is still here, dudes a genius.

Every complaint about DotA is subjective and a shit tier opinion. Prove me wrong.

that's more work. You see how it's different from just going into worldeditor and having the pick of the litter of pretty much any type of charachter archetype possible, not to mention all the buildings which dota lack?

I can't.

>one of the most complicated and high skill ceiling games ever made
> the multiplayer and 1/3 of the singleplayer it's free
what's your excuse

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Dota's not nearly as bad about this as other mobas. Good players can carry way harder in it than they can in the competition, now more than ever as games like LoL and HotS have slowly lowered skill ceilings. As long as you're above your skill bracket, you should climb not just reliably, but quickly. Even playing strictly support is good enough.
Not that retards fucking you isn't a thing that happens, it is, but even in the worst game the enemy team rolls 5 dices to your teams 4 if you're competent. In DotA, you can get the bigger retard and still win if you're good because your team is the sum of your abilities, not the product. It isn't like HotS where you can win the entire game and throw because one retard refuses to show up somewhere, it's not like LoL where linear progression means that one asshole feeding will automatically put you behind your opponent. You can actually compensate for retards by playing even better.

>Start making my own version of Parasite 2 // Metastasis

>Make an event happen randomly where the station goes into blackout mode and plays creepy music
>Feel really good about myself

>Come back to it after an update from the main game
>Suddenly my imported creepy music now will play nowhere except the exact center of the map

Several instances like this just made me give up. This was back in like 2015/2016. Also as you said, the amount of shit you have to go through just to do one thing is absurd. My 14 year old retarded self could import models and design levels in Warcraft 3's World Editor. I'm 27 now and I'm still baffled by how difficult it is to make custom abilities and design maps in Dota 2's Tools.

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I don't have autism.

It's too hard.

Do Dotards still exist? Can you autistic subhuman worthless scum just fuck off to your general over at vee gee?

6.47 up to 6.9x were the peak days of dota. now its just a steaming pile of dog shit

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>turn rates
>team based
>HIGH FUCKING SKILL CEILING

LMAO
ABSOLUTEGARBAGE

not competitive at all, play a fighting game

youtube.com/watch?v=LDymLWfp_uA

Greatest trailer ever made, and it's just a bunch of images flashing across the screen.

who said this was the greatest trailer ever made? strawman much?

Nigga I said it was the greatest trailer ever made you motherfucker. Because it is.

>>Suddenly my imported creepy music now will play nowhere except the exact center of the map
I managed to solve an issue like that when playing a global sound, felt really good since there was absolutely zero guide on how to do that, I had to change a certain field in its soundevents entry which I somehow figured out after looking at global soundevents. Valve basically doesn't give a shit, there's a huge list of LUA functions and a fair amount of them are depriciated, like setmaxhealth or whatever which apparently does nothing.

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One retard throws it but 2 can tie it. Most games have 3+

I dropped it for my backlog after I got a job, still, had good times (and bad times) with it. I don't see myself returning to it anytime soon unless I go neet again, if I gotta go into it again, I gotta go in balls deep 12 hours a day otherwise it's useless

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Yeah you'd think MakeRandomHeroSelection() would random everyone a hero, but nope, it actually does fucking nothing.
And the community back in 2015/2016 was very vocal about this too and begged Valve to do something about it, but Valve didn't say a fucking word. They just created the tools because it was a promise they made back in 2011. It was simply soemthing they 'had to do' and they had no passion for it at all.

The only reason Auto Chess hasn't been broken by any recent updates is because of how popular it is and Valve know the Chinese would gut them if they fucked it up.

It's exactly as bad.

>t. 2k

i love windranger but i eat shit every time

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Have they said anything about the wc3 reborn map editor? If it has sc2 models + few hardcoded limitations + model import + actually works + (maybe) no soul-binding contract then that shit would be kino.

It's a hard fact that it isn't. It's not a matter of whether or not the games are worth playing overall, or whether or not that's a good thing, it's just the strict nature of the game mechanics. Heroes scale at different rates and each one carries more individual power into a fight. Your team's overall skill matters, but you have way more leeway to carry alone because it's possible to end up in situations where a single hero can kill the entire enemy team alone. This just isn't realistic in the other games.

Actually as I think about it's, it's worse. Let me put it into perspective, in terms of how much skill can carry you

Fighting games >>>>>>>>> A team based FPS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> League > Dota > HoTs

Haven't heard anything, but I simply have no faith in modern Blizzard. For some reason they just can't get their head out of their asses. Just look at WoW Classic, everyone asked for just Vanilla WoW and nothing else yet Blizzard can't help but throw in shit like layering.

they should just make dota 3, which would be like dota 2 but with actual mechanical skill and map selection

fight me over this opinion

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Easily one of the most demanding games in terms of skill upkeep. Even breaks of less than a month would make me feel unbearably rusty upon returning to the game.

Mantaining proficiency at DOTA2 at a skill level where the community is at least somewhat less of an horrid dunning kruger septic tank would require too much sacrifice in terms of other vidya or hobbies.

this, if I had the time to nolife a game for the sake of mastering its skill ceiling SCII would be it

Great job user, proud of ya.

Think I'm also out of this thing too. Only thing that was keeping me going was that I had a group of friends to play with but they've all quit as well.

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>repetitive
I will never understand how people think this
Dota is still the least repetitive multiplayer game I've ever played, it has the most possible game states and significant unique interactions of anything out there

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Everything wrong with base 7.0 has been fixed since then

Is there any video game fanbase more obsessed with shilling and jerking itself off more than dota?

You can carry massively more in Dota than you can in LoL. You can carry even more than a team-based FPS due to the snowball mechanic. You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

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I do sure like playing it with other friends right fellow user?

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this ride never ends

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That's why they are choking now

Just started playing and I can't find anyone playing bot matches. I always play about 100 bot matches before I jump into normals whenever I learn a new moba. I already know how to play LoL and Smite so I'm thinking of just hopping into normals because playing solo against bots is boring af

i remember how hype this was. and 7.00 basically met expectations, though it was pretty unbalanced on launch. and the game even now is still pretty unbalanced. 7.06 was pretty ok iirc though.

i played the game since 6.42 or something but found it really hard to continue after shrines+talents
can never tell if i just burned out or if valves changes made the game less fun

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The TI curse continues.
We won't get repeating winners this year either.

generally a lot of heroes have very specific cookie cutter builds, so it can feel a bit repetitive if you're trying to git gud with a hero and play him constantly.
Yes I understand that this problem has a very easy solution.

>generally a lot of heroes have very specific cookie cutter builds
No they don't, this isn't LoL. Dota's itemization is one or two core items and then pure situational utility.

The Chinese curse was broken last year. Anything could happen. If Secret doesn't choke again Puppey could be the first person to win two TIs, which would be pretty kino since he was also the first one to win a TI.

/thread

>A lot of heroes have very specific cookie cutter builds

I'm sorry you must have mistaken Dota for League. Dota's item builds are varied as hell. The only time this wasn't the case was when everyone bought Aquila and PMS, and those were removed solely for that reason.

assfaggots are for retards who can't play rts games

>a lot of heroes have very specific cookie cutter builds

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I don't like World of Warcraft.

Assfaggots are multiplayer diablo-likes, it has nothing to do with RTS beyond meaningless engine history

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No game where your characters ability to kill the enemy is hard limited by stats and cooldowns will ever be as skill based as one where it's only limited by, you know, actual skill.

A master FPS player could rapidly headshot, instant kill the entire enemy team with nothing but the muscle memory in their arm and wrist. They don't need items that just make their slow moving character arbitrarily do way more damage to the enemy units with point-and-click attacks than the enemies slow moving units do to them. If you think that's the epitome of skill you may have severe brain damage.

Which RTS game that isn't dead should I play user?

7.00 gets hated on too much, but the biggest tragedy is that the patches before 7.00 were the closest Dota had ever come to being 'perfectly balanced' I joked with my friends back in 2017 that Icefrog had made 7.00 for the sole purpose of 'upending the teatable' so he could continue balancing shit becuase 6.8X were too good balance-wise.

laptop guy is that one friend everyone hates but only hangs out with him because his house has the best snacks

Here am i. Lost and forgotten.

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Only gigachads play offlane and roaming ganker

>Lanes 1v3 and still wins
>Has never hit a creep in his entire life
>Farms only heroes
>Makes game winning plays
>Only needs boots+blink to fuck your shit up

>No game where your characters ability to kill the enemy is hard limited by stats and cooldowns will ever be as skill based as one where it's only limited by, you know, actual skill.
This makes absolutely no sense at all. Your logic seems to be that "mechanical skill is the only real kind of skill" which is simply not true.

Sadly true.

its funny, because in 2016 i was fiending for the upending of the teatable. i thought that despite ti6 being all around pretty good, the game was still unbalanced and increasingly becoming uninteresting to me. so 7.00 sort of renewed my interest in the game.

How many hours did you have to spend practicing hovering over the enemy unit and pressing the Q key before you mastered it?

Abba can do everything Omni can but better and with lower cds

remember to take breaks from MOBAs guys

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I can agree with ES but oracle isn't mechanically intensive (literally 4 point and clicks) and changes to wisp's kit mean he's now much easier to pilot. I'd put invoker and meepo handily above all 3 however.

that kid has a tapeworm probably

you are trash

I understand that all of Yea Forums is super pro 9000+ mmr.
but speaking as a lowly casual piece of trash pub peasant here, most of my LC games I end up going chainmail blink
most of my weaver games I end up going linkens bloodthorne etc
there are just items and builds that are objectively good for specific heroes, so why would you not use them?

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Not many, but how many hours does it take to consistently, every single time, correctly decide which hero to press Q on?

Typical MtF loltranny

>how many hours did you have to spend practicing picking up a chess piece and putting it back down before you mastered it?

What part of "one or two core items" do you not understand?

on an inrelated note. Auto-chess is pure luck right? There's no way to plan out a strat because of the gacha pieces right?

Linkens is not a good item every game, so I'm not sure why you'd consider it core, let alone rushing it every game.

Pretty sure that's why it happened, to keep people interested. People will point out how the playerbase has still been declining since 7.00, but the truth is that this would always be the case. Dota's a great game but people get older and move on. My friends that played Dota now play other games like PUBG or Fortnite or more recently, Mordhau. It's impressive to me that even 8 years into its life Dota 2 still sits at the top of Steam's playerbase charts.

Dota had its climax back in 2014/2015. It'll slowly dwindle away now into its twilight years where it'll sustain a good 100,000 average players. It's had a great run.

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the part that says "one or two"

Clearly you don't, because you listed one or two for each.

m8, you literally ALWAYS no matter what the situation in your game buy blink dagger and blademail on LC. There is NO other way to play the hero. LC is a solved hero. After those two items, however, the build suddenly branches out and you need to consider what you need.

The real item build decisions come in on heroes like necro. You can buy every single type of boot, every single cheap major item and nearly every single expensive item on necro and it will be good, if you have the correct game for it. But you need to recognize and decide what to buy.
Necro is an extremely complex hero, despite the fact that in most games you walk in a straight line and press Q every time you have it. There is no reliable item build for Necro, because every item is good on the hero.

>linkens bloodthorne weaver
I hope you don't play a lot of weaver, because I don't expect you to win very much like that.
you really don't want to buy linkens on weaver and orchid is utter shit. It doesn't synergize with geminiate, it doesn't fix your inherent problems and it's not enough to get pickoffs easily.
Try buying maelstrom or diffusal, depending on what you wanna do in the game.

Or you just go mid and buy Greaves and win every game.

Its unironically been dumbed down with all of the recent patches.
Not to mention cooldowns and mana costs have been lowered so much Dota of today is the equivalent of league now.

my nigga.
sometimes i download it and play but its totally unenjoyable now. play it for a week and delete again.

>high skill
burden of knowledge isn't a skill, it's autism

Fucking this.

one game my entire team got completely shit on by a Peruvian Sniper and his team of misfits, but eventually came back as a Faceless void and knocked his shit in, god it felt so good, fuckin' spics

Maybe, but investors and franchisers hate this sort of thing like a plague.
They need set winners, and this TI curse ruins any security it may give.
With this, Dota will never be an event like LoL or OW is.

>chess takes no skill
okay retard

TI had one of the biggest pots in history of Dota and had literally every big sponsor fighting for the best spot
you have to be a complete fucking moron to believe there is no money involved or the event isn't as big

>Dota will never be an event like LoL or OW is.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>online multiplayer
yikes

It's controlled RNG. There are some things you can do to fight the RNG.

>If you have room on your sideboard, buy any piece you can grab as long as you don't fall below the X0 gold amount (Example: If you have 15 gold and some sideboard space, buy pieces until you have 10 gold)
>If you're close to the next level of income, sell an unwanted sideboard piece before the round ends (Example: If you have 18 gold, sell off an unwanted 2 piece unit to reach 20 gold and get the +1 income)
>3 star pieces are not as important as you think they are

Just a few tips

Isn't The International bigger than OWL? I know League's World Championship gets more views.

okay I'll add power threads to those two, what now faggot?

>what's your excuse

I don't speak Russian and I don't have a double digit IQ

You usually go phase on LC and you usually go noboots on weaver.

>Skywrath mid on Turbo
>hit 6 in 5 minutes
>Atos in 10 minutes
>the bloodshed begins

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Same with TF2.
People never stop praising what a great game it is. But they also stopped playing it.

shit cosmetics that makes league of legends look cheap in comparison

>some shit costs 200$
lmao..

With TF2 people lament it. Meanwhile quitting Dota is seen as something to be proud of for some reason. Look at all the faggots in here posting their game times and 'last played'. Like there are some people who legit haven't played the game for 3 years yet feel the need to come into this thread and brag about a game they have not played for 3 years.

Dota has a strange effect on some people.

There's no objective answer to that. It's usually pretty obvious though, kill the biggest enemy threat before they can kill your teams biggest threat. There can be nuance to it but it's typically pretty obvious.

I'm sure you're very proud of yourself for that one but in chess whether one piece captures another isn't determined by which piece has farmed higher stats throughout the match. You also aren't sharing your board with 4 other players who you have no true control over and choose to make their own moves.

I recognize that there are different kinds of "skill". There's mechanical skill, strategic skill, knowledge skill, etc. This is why independent of the moba vs moba vs FPS argument I put fighting games far and above all the rest as the epitome of skill based competitive games. You need all 3 major categories of skill to be the best in fighting games.
But different types of skill have different weight behind them. Dota has extremely low mechanical skill. Gameplay is highly dependent on numbers. You can never kill a guy who simply has stats 10 times bigger than yours in a 1v1 moba fight like you could in a fighter. In addition, the presence of teammates, especially random teammates, dilutes the importance of skill even more. You are only 20% of your teams stats, the randoms are 80% of your teams stats. In a game where mechanical skill is important, it's easier to make up for a stat disadvantage with mechanical skill, but dota has very little mechanical skill so you just simply cannot overcome your teammates wasting their stat value most of the time.

>9 IQ
sorry for you dude

Everything you complained about has nothing to do with the gameplay itself. The game itself is amazingly designed

I have it downloaded on my pc but I’ve never played. Is it even fun?

oh, I'm sorry, I though the argument was how varied and totally not repetitive the hero builds are.

mechanical skill is worthless.
What matters is having a bigger brain than your opponent. This is why dota is unique, it rewards intelligence more than pressing buttons fast

That depends. Do you have autism?

This. The questions is less "How fast can I press Q on the enemy?" and more "How fast can I deduce which enemy hero I need to press Q on the most that will tip the teamfight in our favor?"

5 people all making this decision, each ability making or breaking a teamfight. And don't even get me started on positioning.

It's a MOBA.

Fucking this. This game is garbage outside that

You made a comment purely about mechanical inputs, so you got a response purely about mechanical inputs. Don't be an idiot.
Anyways for the rest of the post, the answer is "strategy game" and I don't understand why that's so hard for you to grasp.

Strategy determines how you act based on stat differentials with basically infinite unique scenarios, and optimal strategy is what gets you higher stats than your opponents. When your stats are lower, strategy is what lets you win engagements despite having lower stats. Strategy is a skill. The game isn't "collect more numbers and whoever has more wins"

>wisp
>hard
You tether and hit healing items and don't even have to worry about managing health any more or resizing your spirit circle. Io is easy as fuck.

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>It's a MOBA.
No it isn't

>Nuh uh!
Yes, I can certainly tell the size of your brain by the depth and amount of thought you put into your response.

Too bad what you fail to realize is that no only does dota have low mechanical skill, but it's not even as strategic as you like to pretend either. Dota is probably the only game either of you play. Dota communities are the only people you talk with, so you only ever hear your own echoed opinions and think you're all geniuses.

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It boggles my mind that League of Legends has nothing like pulling creeps into the jungle. Lane control must be so fucking boring and low IQ if you can't do something as simple as redirecting where the creeps go.

Then this is better and you should play a better game.

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>Lane control must be so fucking boring and low IQ if you can't do something as simple as redirecting where the creeps go.
It is, LoL is an incredibly sterile gold arms race and not much else. If you aren't aware the team comp and lane placement meta is 100% forced, it's even built into the matchmaking now

>Try and play league the other day for the first time im a whild
>If you lose in gold/lane it's fucking over because items are all fucking stat sticks (i.e. no fucking real itemization) and heroes have no depth beyond using basic position and nailing your prebuilt combo

Okay so now i know the real reason league blows

I mentioned strategic skill right there retard.
>>I recognize that there are different kinds of "skill". There's mechanical skill, strategic skill, knowledge skill, etc
And you clearly didn't even read my post if you aren't acknowledging how much the presence of teammates turns games into crapshoots where what they randomly decide to do has much more influence than what you decide to do since that was one of my central points.

If you're not going to read my posts, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. I fully explained how the game works and why your "hurr more stats" bullshit is completely invalid, and you're refusing to acknowledge it so I'm taking that as your concession.
Have a nice day!

>And you clearly didn't even read my post if you aren't acknowledging how much the presence of teammates turns games into crapshoots
Wow great job moving the goalposts user
That's also invalid because it's solved by actually having friends, any team game is a crapshoot if you play with randos and you're an idiot

How is it not?

Reminder that techies is the hardest hero ever created in FAGGOTS and requires really good map/game sense

mobas are shit

It's a MOBA, and with the most toxic video game community to have ever existed.

As someone who has over 4000 hours across two accounts, I love dota but dota games are long (I tried playing turbo mode but the queues were really long and we played almost exclusively against botters throwing for account buyers) and it's hard to get my friends interested in sitting down for more than one 40+ minute game. That being said, of my friends who have bothered to learn the game that weren't playing other mobas (namely league), they've really enjoyed dota and I do too. I don't understand this meme of shitting on dota for its monetization (i.e. skins and stuff that you don't need to play the game at all) and being "nufun", whatever the fuck that means. If you don't like assfaggots, you don't like it.
I have started to play league, too. It has some of the things I like about dota and some things that are different. Its biggest upside is that games are like 15-20 minutes long so you can just mow them down and if you lose its no big deal. is pretty right though.

I'd argue that prize goes to LoL but yeah

had a lot of fun 2012-2014. having weekly patches felt great. won't bother now.

Do u even know why there are turn rates? There’s literally millions of ways for a good player to abuse turn rates against players who don’t know how

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>Play 10 matches
>9 of them are a complete stomp from either of the sides
>1 is actually good, decent and fun
Dota is WAAAY too much about drafting these days, the difference between heroes are bigger than ever and the amount if skill you need it lower and lower.
It's all about abuse picking now and this even applies at the highest level of dota.
The game is not just fun when a vast majority of your games are just a big stomp and you rarely ever get those good balanced matches.

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>turn rates
>bad
ever played against core batrider?

>Do u even know why there are turn rates?
To slow the game down enough for the special ed kids who play it to be able to keep up.

It's trash

Creep deny not being a thing is fucking flabbergasting. I started in lol and got a beta invite back when people were actually paying for invites and never went back.

Which was good since riot banned my account until 2146 a month after I switched for calling morello a faggot. Didn't realize the morello on my team was the actual morello

i played enough dota in warcraft 3 over 15 years ago.

i dont have enough time to play that stupid shit anymore. and it's boring without friends.

nothing feels better than last picking THE hero and trouncing the other team in a clean 20 minute game

>You can never kill a guy who simply has stats 10 times bigger than yours in a 1v1 moba fight like you could in a fighter

This is so fucking retarded and perfectly explains why you think Dota takes no skill.
If the enemy carry is farmed, then you obiously don't fight him 1 on 1. Either your team ganks him, when he is alone, or in a teamfight you try to kite him, kill his team and then kill him.

Also if he has higher Networth than that shows his skill as well, either through superior farming or because he got a lot of gold though kills

Because lol is better And Much more fin?

Sadly this is the way to climb MMR now, lastpick a hero that needs a hardcounter or he will automatically win the game.

Climbing MMR has always been about just abusing the broken hero of the patch, but at least back then you could still outplay them.

not really it's about game balance
see: the shitshow LoL character design is simply because the game never had turn rates(?)

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If you're good you can still pick whatever you want.
I played mid WK for like three games in a row and all of them were ridiculously one-sided stomps

>You can never kill a guy who simply has stats 10 times bigger than yours in a 1v1 moba fight like you could in a fighter.
That's because it's a team strategy game you absolute fucking retard. You aren't supposed to all be able to 1v1 each other.
Is this bait? Nobody can actually be this stupid

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I'm not moving goalposts you retard. I made an argument where I broke down every single aspect of why dota is not as skill based as faggots like you want to pretend. You and your retarded buddies chose to ignore 90% of it and just say "Nuh uh its STRADUGEE. Mechanical skill is just pushing Q fast!". Can you not process multiple arguments at once? Maybe playing dota doesn't actually give you a 4000 IQ like you think it does, if you can't even handle 1 post more than 1 point at a time. I'll break it down nice and simple for your tiny brain then.

1: Dota doesn't take nearly as much strategic skill as you think
2: Dota barely takes any mechanical skill, and you have clearly never played a game that does if you think it's just pushing buttons fast
3: At the end of the day no matter how much or little of any skill the game takes, it's diluted drastically by being dependent on teammates who you can't control, even if they're your friends.

Wow, nice.

A worse version of League of Legends.

The only redeeming quality it has is Autochess

Team games aren't fun if you don't have a fun stack.

Healers are not fun

>If you're good you can still pick whatever you want.
Show me a single player that picked mostly weak support heroes of the patch and climbed at a reasonable pace.

Still waiting for a response to my argument, the ball's in your court.
Reread and and actually respond to their points.

>that guy who after every death pings the closest allied hero, as if desperately trying to convince himself that it could not have possibly been his fault

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I meant, if you go mid, you clown.
Support players are not human.

sad times, used to play with the best. Now I cant keep up and I am stuck with boosted players...

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This entire argument started out by 1 guy saying
>it's possible to end up in situations where a single hero can kill the entire enemy team alone
Yet now it's suddenly that's not possible because you just kite them or ignore them. So it's not actually possible for 1 guy to carry?

Have some patience cunt, unlike all of you some people actually put some time and thought into their posts.

>Abadon
>Chen
>Omniknight
All fun.

>Yet now it's suddenly that's not possible because you just kite them or ignore them. So it's not actually possible for 1 guy to carry?
There are ways to play around the 1 hero kills everyone.
You just need to git gud.

>Have some patience cunt, unlike all of you some people actually put some time and thought into their posts.
Congratulations on making the most pathetic excuse for having no argument I've ever seen here

Chen and carry Omni are fun, Abadon is one of the most boring heroes, though.

>possible
I don't think this means what you think it means
yes it is possible for one guy to team wipe the other team, it is also possible to kite him, kill his team, then kill him.
The enemy team obviously tries to prevent that from happening, Dota is still a Team Game

Is Chen even fun after the rework, I haven't played him yet but he looks extremely boring now

You better be voting for the Troll Warlord Arcana niggers.

>having no argument
>I was literally in the middle of typing a response to your post when you made a second post crying that I hadn't responded yet
Fucking hell you big baby. It takes time to type. It takes more time to type when responding to multiple people. Is your argument seriously going to break down to "you didn't respond to all of my posts the instant I typed them so you're wrong"?

"Can" doesn't mean "is guaranteed to" you stupid fucking retard

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>Dota is still a Team Game
Yes, which is one of the major reasons it's not as skill based.

And you're only doing it because I called you out on it, since you already replied to the posts with irrelevant bullshit. You had no argument and you're damage controlling.

surely playing huskar and killing every retard with rightclick is high skilled
fuck you retard
DO NOT PLAY THIS TRASH IT WILL ONLY WASTE YOUR TIMELIFE, unless you play with friends and enjoy even if you lose.

>Complaining about huskar
Just drop the third bomb on him lmao

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Same.
I received my beta invite from old playdota giveaway.
I totally changed my opinion about Valve after they ruined dota and turned it to hats collector simulator.

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It's not a fighting game, so it isn't fun.

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You "called me out" on it because you failed to pay attention to the entire post in question where I broke down every aspect of strategy, stats, teammates, and how they all function together. No really, look at it again.

Actually read it this time and look at the sentences besides just the one that upset you and see that I had already addressed every argument you would try to make.

I called you out on it because you didn't respond to my arguments, and you still haven't.

>I broke down every aspect of strategy, stats, teammates, and how they all function together. No really, look at it again.
No you didn't. I responded to your invalid points and you haven't replied yet.

It's very addictive.
You play it, you stop playing other games.

It's gone to shit and so has Valve. I neither want to spend my time on this game nor support Valve's games.

is slark still cancer?

it's pretty stupid to compare team games to solo games to begin with, is tennis/boxing harder than football/basketball?

anyway this discussion is leading nowhere, I can't convince you and you won't be able to convince me

just one more thing: there has never been a player or a team that reached the skill ceiling in dota, every year teams and players improve, the same is true for RTS and fighting games.
my point is that all these games have an infinite skill ceiling

It's not fun.

Haven't played since monkey king.
Actually, I did play 5 games when grimstroke got released, won most of them, and then stopped again.
These are the heroes I liked to play and used to play back in the day, how are they faring these days, in case I find the time to play again?
>Bounty hunter
>Puck
>Phantom Assassin
>Clockwreck
>Phoenix
>Zeus
>Broodmother
>Spectre
>Leshrak
>Dark seer
>Tidehunter
>Sand kingu
Also what new heroes might be cool for a guy that likes to pop things up? I tried out dark willow and really liked her supe phase shift, and also grimstroke, but I guess he got nerfed to the ground in the meantime.

Slark stopped being cancer three years ago.

Pounce doesn't do damage but it prevents you from blinking or using teleportation. Oh and he can now gain +1 permanent agility if he is around after he takes your stats from essence shift.

Slark is shit tier.

post juggernaut

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i dont like my games to feel like a second job

The problem about dota is that during a match it doesn't really push you neither mechanically nor cognitively. The skill in dota and what gets you wins at the highest level is the knowledge of the game, knowing which characters/items to pick, correct positioning, and having good strategy to know where to be and when to be aggressive or not. All of that can be figured out for the most part before the match even starts, the mechanics are obviously easy, and it doesn't have anything difficult for your mind to do during the match (for example, timing multiple items in Quake), so it's just about decision making based on a lot of already known information about the game, and the game is fairly static so the situations don't change a whole lot. It rewards people that grind a lot rather than genuine talent. You can appreciate it in some ways because of those things, but it isn't as interesting or compelling as other competitive games for me at least.

7.21d is a pretty low point. Drow, Morph, Doom in almost every single match. It's a disgusting iteration of push we've seen every couple of patch cycles, but god this one is bad.

7.00 was a huge fucking mistake, downhill spiral from there

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Every solved meta is suffering

>Bounty Hunter
Jinada just adds bonus damage BUT steals unreliable gold from enemies you hit with it. Talent means you can steal 120 gold. Track doesn't break your invis and you do a crit to tracked targets for the duration of track
>Puck
Same old same old
>PA
Blur allows PA to do a smoke like invis
>Clockwerk
Same old same old. Battery assault doesn't have a cast point now
>Phoenix
Same old
>Zeus
Same old
>Broodmother
In a really good spot now actually
>Spectre
Nerfed because of how well she did in TI8
>Leshrac
Not much has changed
>Dark Seer
Not much has changed
>Tidehunter
Anchor smash is now a crit in an aoe around him. Still reduces damage
>Sand King
You don't need to channel sandstorm and the AoE is larger.

Also if you get around to it try Mars. He is a solid as fuck offlaner.

Bounty Hunter is stupidly broken, all of his stats are double what they should be and he can get 550 movespeed with phase boots and sange and yasha.The rest are pretty mediocre aside from Sand King and Dark Seer, though Broodmother still works as the most cancerous last pick.

I like rocket league better

BRING BACK THE SOUL

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There is not a single str or agi hero that has high skill ceiling, maybe only meepo if you dont have micro.
But it takes a few games to practice and master any of them.

Only Lion, Venomancer and Omniknight were fine.

Who the fuck even voted for a Void redesign

youtube.com/watch?v=-j5yM3kx9cI
k then download dota2 and record you doing this combo at an high mmr and then link us the video since it's so easy

The ones who got better:
Drow, Slardar and Shadow Fiend

Ones who got worse:
Venomancer, Lion

Ones I have no opinion on:
Omni, Storm Spirit

I feel like this is the most static one in some time, though. Hoping we get a good update soon before TI quals.

I think you responded to the wrong guy, I'm the one defending dota

Oh yeah, add void to the "no opinion" one.

Hoo Hoo, Haa haa and Troll meta was worse.

>That Slardar
>Soul

He looks like fucking shit.

Valve wants you to forget. But I remember.

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The same russian retards who are voting Void and Sniper into the arcana vote semis every year

y mb

Reminder that Blizzard is the one responsible for removing him, not China.

tb meta was worse

You say dota is a team based strategy game. That's true, however being team based inherently makes it less skill based than a 1 on 1 strategy game.

If an enemy is super fed and has higher stats than you it's typically because your teammates played badly, outside of your control, and fed them, rendering the enemy too powerful for you to beat with your own actions. Your teammates obviously aren't good enough to work together to take them down after he's fed, they're the ones who fed him to begin with, so they're still no help. Your individual skill could not result in your victory.

However, imagine if fighting games were team based. You can't actually have 10 fighters on screen at once, so instead imagine it involves teams of players fighting each other 1 player at a time in single elimination. Also, to make it work a bit like a moba, every time you beat another player your character gets stronger.
Your 4 teammates go before you, they all lose to the same guy. That guys character gets fed and suddenly has like 5 times more health and damage than you. However since this is a fighting game, as long as you're still good enough you can perfectly block everything and take no damage, rendering his higher attack stats useless. And you can slowly whittle away at his health, rendering his higher defense stats useless. Your skill actually resulted in you winning, even though your teammates put you at a statistical disadvantage. That's not possible in dota because the mechanical skill ceiling is too low.

That is how stats, strategy, mechanical depth and teammates factor together in dota and dilute the importance of individual skill.

Truth. Was it 6.87 where Sniper got reworked and was king for an entire year? Gods, brings me back.

But yeah, not too long ago it was sniper and troll. Ugh.

The Mortal Strike rework from a while back really makes me think they want Wraith King to go back to being a based skelebro but something is holding them back.

Bullshit.

They're gonna sell you Skeleton King back for $1000 in the next year's TI battle pass

>Bounty hunter changes
Holy shit my main looking really good, actually making me want to get back just for good old times
Also what do you mean that I don't need to channel sandstorm? It's like old brood web that makes me invisible as long as I stay in the sandstorm without attacking? Because that sounds like bullshit and a easy as fuck blink dagger to farm

Yep, gave it a last try when Mars was released but it was shit, selling all my immortals.

>That's true, however being team based inherently makes it less skill based than a 1 on 1 strategy game.
I already replied to this.
It's unrelated to your original points, it's solved by having friends which is what you're supposed to be doing for team games, and it applies just as much to any other team genre including team-based shooters that you were defending against Dota earlier.

Try again. I told you to actually read, why don't you listen?

6.83, AKA the worst meta Dota ever had.

It's the truth. Skeleton King even had a China-specific model that made him a giant piece of Metal armor instead of a skeleton.
Skeleton King was turned into Wraith King around the exact same time Windrunner was changed into Windranger and Necrolyte was changed into Necrophos.

Hmmm, now what does that all add up to?

Yeah it is pretty much old brood webs but this time the brood webs damage you.

Valve decided that supporting two different models is too much for them. Blizzard doesnt own rights on skeletons.

Literally knock off warcraft characters

>Dota 2 post reborn and 7.00 worse MOBA on the market.
No that's going way too far. It's the biggest disappointment of them all but not the worst one. I'd still rather play it than LoL or HotS, but the trick is that I don't have to play any of these shitty games.

Can't wait. That went great when they made their own card game.

It's the latter. That patch pretty much went against everything that seemed to be Dota's design philosophy at that time.

>This is why dota is unique
How fucking delusional are you.

Then why do the other Low Violence models still exist?

They look like literal garbage unless you’re wearing mad cosmetic items that are hard to get or you’re actually talking about the real WC3 models.

This is incorrect, SK and loads of heroes already had China-friendly "low violence" models that fit the same cosmetics.

DotA is also about tradeoffs. There are times where you have a great start and because of the space/help you got the other lanes suffered. You could have TPed to save your teammates, but you decided not to (or didn't see you could have prevented their deaths because you are bad). Maybe you should pick more early game centric heroes if you find that's the part of the game you struggle with.

I haven't played Dota 2 in years. Not since custom games were first added. What does the new hero tier list look like now?

>want a new void skin
>nobody knows what to change about it, but make him better
>concept artist start making meme drawings in the meantime
fucking dumb russians

Attached: void.jpg (588x3414, 426K)

Examples.

>tfw everyone that complains about DotA hasn't played it in years and has shitty subjective opinions
>or is secretly a HotS nigger LoLfaggot

lmgtfy.com/?q=dota 2 low violence models

Old but you get the idea

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Well, the new void is okay. Higher res model, better texture, more defined look to split off from the initial tribal face paint design of Dotas conception

>that last pic
Reminds me of the Beta from muv-luv.

Faceless Rex courier is god tier in quality and hilarious.

Why would I play DOTA when Starcraft 2 exists and is free to play?

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Shrines make the game unplayable in every sense of the word. You used to be able to actually solo carry pubs before shrines and now it is impossible to play without a stack

Only guy I encountered who was a "pro" was KvH (NA mid, was "#1" ranked SF on dotabuff but that doesnt matter) and some faggot on US East who stacked with Pajkatt and his gf.

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Based retarded weebposter.

This.
Also a reminder that they nerfed kill rewards and ridiculously buffed killing spree punishment resulting in a even more team-based game where its better to farm your life away than ganking and killing alone like the good old days

Yea Forums is bad at games that requires actual strategy, so they hate Dota because they can't grasp it except at 1k MMR

You don't have control of your teammates even if they're your friends. Even if they're completely obedient to you (which even at pro level, teammates never have truly perfect coordination) their mechanical mistakes are their own fault yet will impact your ability to win.

The reason this doesn't apply to something like a team based shooter is because that game has a very high mechanical skill ceiling and stats matter very little. Even if all 4 of your teammates screw up and die it's still possible in an FPS for you, the one remaining player, to beat 5 enemies by yourself if you're skilled enough. It's not possible to do that in dota, because stats are more important than mechanical skill, and the existence of teammates means stats are largely out of your control.

Though what I'm really wondering is if I should even bother with these long responses if all you're going to do every single time is say "No you're wrong try again" and refuse to EVER engage in an actual back and forth debate, instead just stubbornly insisting that I just didn't read your post over and over again because you can't expand on a point or admit it may have been wrong.

>Looks too much like Dragon Knight
So fucking good.

too much clicking

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Lmao what, shrines are good now and if anything make carrying games easier if you know how to use them.

Wait why doom I get drow and morph but why him?

>cant rotate structures
Retard game for retards

Shrines will never be good. They made the map incredibly small and just act as an artificial way to get retards to have map control

>You could have TPed to save your teammates
Or you could have just played a game where you don't have teammates and thus don't have to play babysitting duty hoping they don't screw something up and lose you the game.

>and stats matter very little
I already responded to your stats bullshit, and you ignored that too. Either actually respond to my arguments or fuck off. You just ignore my posts and parrot the same bullshit I already debunked.

>and refuse to EVER engage in an actual back and forth debate
The irony. Either respond to the rebuttals or you're admitting you were wrong.

7.00 wasn't that bad
it's just that it was a downgrade from 6.87 for more features
that dais current DotA I'd probably better than older iterations now and all the 7.00 bitching is gone because everything had been balanced down now

Wrong and gsypilled
>artificial way
Lmao what, im guessing towers are artificial now too huh

So its basically different icons and different faces that never affect hats. It was too hard for them to make sure that all costumes on skeleton will always hide bones, so they just changed base model.
Fuck off.

>It's not possible to do that in dota, because stats are more important than mechanical skill, and the existence of teammates means stats are largely out of your control.
youtube.com/watch?v=3ElXGllTpp0
explain then how the pos5 and 3 can 2v5

Nigga, look at Clinkz. Some of his cosmetics would be a nightmare to implement.

Hello blizzdrone denialism
Protip they have summon skeletons from troll sumnoner not censored

How do you even win with underlord.

>multiple skeleton heroes
>all have low violence models
>blizzard lawsuit clearly changed windrunner, necrolyte and skeleton king
>IITS DA FUCKING CHINKKSS NOT BLIZZARDDD

Blizzdrones need to kill themselves before Blizzard puts them down, say goodbye to HotS and OW lmao, dying ass niggas. Can't even fucking handle ant of their IPs

Who was necro based off?

Yea Forums shitters are fucking casual
>hate 30+ mins. games
>irrational hate on multiplayer games
>hate games where you require actual social skills
>hate games with high skill floor
just look at how much they love single player games like souls
they praise them as hardcore
defeating an AI designed to be defeatable is no way as hardcore as defeating a human

>It's been 4 years

I was in the arena for this. The peak of NA Dota.
Time sure flies.

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>Why do I have to play as a team in a team based game?
Yeah just stick to RTS's and fighting games bro.

Necrophos was based off Necrolytes

im playing league instead cause its infinitely better

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b-b-but you have to die 5 times before learning the timing on the 3-4 scripted attacks patterns :(

>Blizzdrones defend their shitty company to the point where they deny the outright truth

Wraith King LITERALLY summons skeletons as one of his abilities now. He was only changed from Skeleton King because Blizzard was so pathetically butthurt they missed out on the Dota 2 money train that they wanted to shit on Valve as much as they could. Valve simply flipped a few names, made a new model (and a cool fun event to go along with it) and then gave Blizzard the middlefinger.

Fuck even Pcbros acknowledge modern Valve is shit, why can't Blizzdrones do the same for Blizzard?

>enter match
>game fucking crashes randomly during hero pick screen
>finally log back in
>game automatically picks my hero for me
>it's fucking morphling
>abandon the game and take low priority queue

i just wanted to play as rubick

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Lol
Get better internet

I don't need video games to validate me

The game could be fun but I agree in this thread that playing with randoms who aren't using mic properly, screeching toxic autism is in everygame, and it takes 1 noob to fuck up your game.

I have 7k hours in this game and its a really fun unique game that nothing will compare to. It's really addicting, but the community and the players fucking sucks.

Ranking up requires you to play way above like at 4k-5k level because of the trench. You can't just play whatever you feel like. You have to spam heroes, obv everyone wants mid because the highest impact is mid. Supports are good early game but later if you carry is just fucking stupid 100% you won't win. Games lasts 50mins or so.

I just play Turbo nowadays with friends and I have much more fun than solo q ranked.

I DID respond to your argument. Clearly I need to stop putting so much information in a single post because it's too much for you to handle, you lose track of the information and in your 3 minute responses you probably don't even take the time to think twice about anything.

Teammates have more control over stats than you do. You are 1 player, your team is 4 players. If your teammates feed they give the enemy team a statistical advantage that you, as 1 player, cannot possibly over come. Only playing with your friends doesn't mean you can prevent this, your team is still responsible for 80% of the game while you can only control 20% of it.

Alright start the clock, this guy will respond in 3 minutes exactly because he never actually addresses anything I say and just repeats the same thing over and over. Only takes 3 minutes to type when your responses are only ever about 4 sentences with no no points.

if you wanted games about actual strategy you wouldn't be playing DOTA
DOTA 2 is a skinner box disguised as a game about strategy and skill, but even CSGO is more indepth and less random than it

I switched to league during season 7 and had fun for a while, but then I got gud and holy shit the balance team at riot are fucking retards. Season 8 killed all diversity and every patch just introduced a new set of broken champs that were always picked/banned while nerfing the previous batch into the ground.

>dedicate 4k hours to this game
>decide to get higher mmr
>have like 3k games
>2200 mmr -> 2800 mmr -> 2000 mmr

yeah its absolutely dogshit. I've been watching videos, guides I even bought a coach and can't climb. I have 52% winrate, so they told me to spam max. 3 heroes. Now obviously this is fucking boring to do and full autism so I quit.

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faceless elf should've been the final redesign.

Not him but this wasnt possible by AA alone.
And the opposing team is clearly at disadvantage with fewer stats like hp.
They should have gtfo the moment they saw AA w

I do play team based games though. I just also play 1v1 games, and thus have the context to tell that skill is more important in the 1v1 games where EVERYTHING is on you.
If something goes wrong it's entirely your own fault, if something goes well it's entirely your fault.

You can have fun in a team based game all you want just don't go around thinking you've got a 4000 IQ just because you play it and think it's the epitome of skill when it's actually very random and you just have no experience with anything else.

You just keep falling back on "wahh teammates" which applies equally to any other team game, whether it be strategy or action. Still no argument, so you're admitting you were wrong. I don't have much to say when the ball is still in your court and I'm still waiting for your rebuttals you refuse to make.

Concession accepted!

This. I used to hate league because I thought its a casual shitfest where you have 0 impact, but its not true. They take every fucking patch away the solo carry the game mode, you can't win SOLO, it takes more and more to solo carry a game. 7.00 definietly sharted the game and made it into a hero brawl where you have to have 60 v 60 deaths a match because of fast respawn, free items(talents) and buyback.

cancer game

Don't get me wrong it's a good higher quality version of the original model, but it's the same design with new tattoos. I don't think that was the point of the vote which is probably why they got rid of it.

>free items(talents)
man, I sure loved those two FREE ultimate orbs we used to get

>people only care about solo queue
>people care about MMR but everyone is toxic and dogshit
>people are literally the dumbest from everygame. Even in WoW I met smarter people than in this game. I don't know why this game caters to retards but its true.

no white man has played a moba for more than 500 hours without realizing the stupidity of his actions

playing ranked is a chore and totally ruins your mental state. you have 4 idiots everytime and its a gamble if you win or not because of who you get as teammates. true shit game.

this is why i said 2v5
also the 2 cores are for sure stronger than a pos 5 and 3 even if they are on the losing team. so, why they get wiped?

>which applies equally to any other team game
You can outskill a team of five retards with absurd equips in CS with nothing more than a $700 deagle and 3 nades.
You can literally carry your team to victory in TF2 just by playing well and knowing your shit.
You most definitely can't win against a gross statistical advantage you had no way of preventing and was entirely out of your control in Dota. Might as well literally ragequit 25 minutes into the match when it's clear you have nothing else to do.

>You just keep falling back on "wahh teammates" which applies equally to any other team game
Except it doesn't, because other games have higher mechanical skill ceilings.

No matter how good you are at dota, you can never possibly press QWER so well that you instantly kill the entire enemy team by yourself, because the numbers literally just are not high enough. Your 4 skills just simply do not have enough damage to take down all 5 enemy health bars. The stats matter more than your skill.

Compare that to an FPS where you actually can aim so quickly and accurately with headshots that you can kill an entire enemy team on your own because your shots aren't limited to only do like 200 damage each while every enemy has 1000+ health, the way a 1v5 fight would go in dota.

>Messi is not skilled because his defenders scored an owngoal
what you are describing is not the required skill of the game, but how much influence a single players skill has on the outcome of the match.
you are absolutely right that a single player in dota doesn't have as much influence on the outcome as a fighting game player, but this says nothing about the skill of the player, or the skill ceiling of the game

When they say games cause Racism they mean this one. Dota 2 single handily made me a racist towards Eastern Europeans and Russians.

Fucking subhumans

I don't I just play it for fun actually. I only really defend the game when people accuse the players of having 0 IQ. The game just scratches a certain itch when I play/theory craft with it.
I also play one on one fighting games with a friend who kicks my shit in and doesn't go easy all. It's quite satisfying to take even one game off him because he gets really salty.

You must be EU.

As NA, Dota made me racist towards South Americans. AFter playing Dota I now genuinely believe I am a higher being than them.

i agree.

there are a few heroes who you can literally cheese trough your wins and THATS because people literally just don't know how to play against those heroes.

>huskar, brood, blood, tinker, invoker, TA

absolute dogshit game dota2 is.

>Compare that to an FPS where you actually can aim so quickly and accurately with headshots that you can kill an entire enemy team on your own because your shots aren't limited to only do like 200 damage each while every enemy has 1000+ health, the way a 1v5 fight would go in dota.
no you dont, because if the other team has a brain they simply flank you from 2 directions at the same time and you die

guys I keep reading
>my teammates

how come the only constant is you and good players sit in immortal rank then? Sure your team is shit and not you? Arteezy never cried about teammates in 2k? Why is arteezy not 2k mmr or Dendi if that name is more familiar?

Lrn 2 spray transfer

Maybe because it was rooted from WC3?

its boring

wrong

youtube.com/watch?v=UCyxxKdCAaM

youtube.com/watch?v=4FBSMNvkyZM

there's basically no way you could argue that the character design of dota 2 is bad. you could argue that the models are lacking in polygons or detail and be right for several heroes, but the core look of most every hero is excellent, even the most recent heroes. especially mars, even. mars looks amazing.

DK forgot to activate bkb or doesnt has it
PL survived
Lina has penguin reaction
Clock didnt throw missile, ult, w, nothing
They dont have pipe.

>You most definitely can't win against a gross statistical advantage you had no way of preventing and was entirely out of your control in Dota
that is only that way because youre trash at the game. a good player dont let a worse team snowball the entire map so he's never in that situation in the first place

that not a 1v5, is it?

In dota what you do is make the correct decisions and hit your timings faster than the other team, so you can be the guy who kills everyone 1 vs 5.
Just gitgud.

>No matter how good you are at dota, you can never possibly press QWER so well that you instantly kill the entire enemy team by yourself, because the numbers literally just are not high enough. Your 4 skills just simply do not have enough damage to take down all 5 enemy health bars. The stats matter more than your skill.
There are enough heroes that can 1 vs 5 effectively, if they hit their timing early enough.
Your task lies in making your stats good enough to fight 1 vs 5.

Why did HotS fail? I really enjoyed it as a MOBA, the objectives and maps helped keep things fresh.

Mars hats when Marsbros

brooo just pick ARC WARDEN

nice meme dude, pick your shit heroes like tinker, arc warden and brood because your bracket is fucking stupid to play against them. this is all dota2 is about. cheese your way to high rank..

I had 80% winrate with necro in 7.00 because it was absolutely broken. It's not skill, just which hero has the highest winrate.

You're really grasping as straws now, I've literally seen the exact scenario play out in plenty of FPS matches where 1 remaining player takes down entire enemy teams.

In dota if you actually tried to play a 1 vs 5 the enemy team could just always push whatever lanes you're not in and it'd be impossible for you to stop the eventual loss, even if you're good enough to win fights by yourself. The numbers would simply make it impossible.

youtube.com/watch?v=v1duHVEs0TU

you will never do this in Dota2.

they have 30k networth vs 12k networth. using that guy logic this means the 12k networth can never win a fight, yet it's a 4 for 0 + roshan

The only moba I ever had fun with was Smite.

oh nonono dotards? cope?

skill ceiling doesnt matter when the gameplay is stupidly repetitive and boring

It missed the window by two or three years otherwise I think it would have easily squeezed in the market.

and unwatchable from an outside perspective.
esports as a whole needs to capture the attention of normies so esport athletes can make some sick normiebucks

>FPSchads and Fightinggameschads close out the thread by dabbing all over Dotavirgins

Damn you all should have known better than to mess with people who actually play skill based games.

youtube.com/watch?v=igDi7X6IZlY

I miss old dota2, game was so much fun, i think shrines are cancer, the map used to be so much free and bigger.

what skill?
There's no skill in practicing to press buttons fast.
And if someone is just faster than you, well, you just lose, because he can play more game in the same time.

This is the major problem with purely mechanical games. Like FPS, RTS and Fighting games. They do not allow you to beat someone with faster fingers by outsmarting them.

>map used to be more free and bigger
Wrong, the map got bigger and the current jungle is the best.

Are FPS peak vidya?

Attached: Blood akimbo.webm (636x480, 2.64M)

youtube.com/watch?v=RF7qM6lmZm8

>>one of the most complicated and high skill ceiling games ever made
What in the fuck are you talking about you stupid fucking spic
the game was going downhil before 7.00, with patched like 6.86 and was bad.
7.00 literally killed the game and any actual competitivenss the game still had.
The game fucking sucks.
you can be 20-0 and the other team can still comeback because of how bad the gold system is now.
Gettings kills in lane is literally what you don't want to do, just get that pack of creeps and you'll get more gold than killing a hero.
good job valve, you literally took one of the best games of all time and ruined it.
good job

>fpschads
>skill based

i aim mouse good

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how is it bigger? you can't push because people can just tp to a shrine and backfuck you. yo ucan't gank cus the same applies. Slark is NON EXISTENT because how fucking bad the map is. enemy is everywhere.

Another 7.00bab that doesn't have an actual opinion on DotA 2

>still no steam workshop mod to restore Skeleton King's model and sound files
>still no Dota 2 Beta mod that restores the game to it's glory days

Cope.

Are you dumb or something, what does backfuck have to do with the map not being objectively bigger
>you can't gank
Why again?

I have almost 6k hours and still have a lot of fun. Currently I have 40 rooms finished in the battle pass jungle

Last game I was pudge and my lane partner was an earthshaker that had a mental link with me and we complimented each other so well

>Valve decided that supporting two different models is too much for them

Attached: 1545887082787.jpg (1200x611, 103K)

youtu.be/G1rCASWMZvY?t=682
uh?

Looks boring. Would be much more fun and skill based if there was no highspeed movement, and you didn't have to dodge and aim, just targeting an enemy and press Q once ever 10 seconds.

>Slark is NON EXISTENT because how fucking bad the map is.
Slark is non existent because he got nerfed into the ground after being fucking everywhere for like a year.
FUCK SLARK

7.00 was very good for the game, because it made the game more interesting. The pre-7.00 meta was 100% solved. Only past 7.00 recently people got REALLY good at dota. You need to watch some recent Secret games. This is a level of play unthinkable before 7.00

You two are subhuman spics that don't do anything other than ruin people's game and have absolutely no idea what made dota 2 good.
Both of you niggers kill yourselves today/

it doesn't matter if the map is bigger when TP IS cheap as fuck, CD is low as fuck, and you can TP ANYWHERE ON THE MAP you fucking 2k mmr shitstain

>Why again?
Because he's fucking dogshit at dota, that's why

you literally have a free slot for TP only fucking mongols.

Sniper (can go 40kills 0 deaths and end the match in 25min if I play him)
PA
TA
Nature's Prophet
Viper
Bristleback
Treant
Recently been playing some Medusa

>lemme just waste my tp all day

Attached: intense skill based gameplay.webm (720x450, 1.21M)

And if you use it you can't teleport for over a minute.
You are just bad at dota and you always were.

I bet you faggots also like the new UI, and think how great it is to not have your screen filled up and how minimized it is.
Fuck off and die you fucking worthless Mexican trash

backpack and tp slot is shit idea, shrines too. nu dota2 sucks and statistics shows its losing players really fast. autochess gathered a shitton of players but only for autochess.

Dota2 is dead soon.

>playing bs
>rupture someone
>they insta tp
what can I do about this that isnt wasting money on euls

Premium subscriptions. Never adding new heroes and then when they do they're ugly and boring as fuck. Reducing loot drops in order to jew the masses. Antimage. Need I go on?

>over a minute
>tp and catch pusher and kill him

who gains here retard?

Attached: eh.png (798x515, 91K)

+1

Abyssal blade

If he gets away, he teleports to the other side of the map, pushes your shit in a game and you can't respond.

just don't play bloodseeker

>you can be 20-0 and the other team can still comeback because of how bad the gold system is now.
they did the same shit in LoL too, making it a teamfight based shitfest when AoS core design was being a lane game
Classic dota when?