Project M for Smash Ultimate is already implementing Jump Cancels

that's deep

That is not how literally anything works.

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You can explain why anything that's bad is bad, moron.

Gimmie the link

>ult will finally be fun
Based. PM is the most fun smash.

Nobody will play it, most smash players doesn't play smash because of the gameplay, they play it because they make firends, nintendo characters, etc.

They also need to implement K. Rool.

>PM was peak Smash
Sure, all the jankyness of Melee turned up to 12 without the necessary precision

It was a fun mod but that's all it was, a mod. If it had just been Brawl but with all the bad Brawl mechanics fixed/removed and some frame data, hitboxes etc. adjusted, it would have been great. But then the modders decided it needed to be their own special-snowflake mod and changed the entire cast for no reason other than they thought they knew better and/or "REEEEEE Wario doesn't have Warioland moves REEEEEE"

>He unironically thinks that there are any brawl movesets that are better than their Project M counterparts

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Wow, you really convinced me bro. My hat's off to you.

something that i don't like is how stiff some of the animations are, like you can clearly see the lack of polish on some characters.

PM Wario is more accurate to his original games than Brawl, 4 and U. Wario.

>muh special snowflake dev team knows better!
lolno

All they had to do was adjust what was there. Simple balance mods like Brawl +/- and 4XM are superior to PM.

Jump Cancels are near useless in Ultimate because of everyone's lower jumpsquat and Dash Cancelling.
They're doing exactly what I fucking feared, they're adding useless tech because "muh Melee". next you're gonna tell me they're adding in L-Cancelling, letting Marth and the Swordfaggotry squad get off even more scott free on landing lag

Who fucking cares, he played fucking great in Brawl

Don't worry, they'll arbitrarily screw with every character's moveset too before addressing anything that actually matters in the game

Name a single project m moveset that isn't more fun than their ultimate version.

I'll wait.

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They actually DID know better. Brawl wasn't even trying to be balanced on the dev's own admission, and these guys did wonders fixing it.

>Jump cancels are near useless
>Ike side-b JC and Ness down-b JC are useless

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There are people who don't like the PM movesets?

Why?

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Jump Cancelling as a whole, which refers to cancelling certain normals, is what I was referring to.
Those aren't included because Side and Down Specials being Jump-Cancellable was never universal

Most custom characters have very shitty and floppy animations, don't get me started on balance issues.

It's gonna bomb hard because nobody wants to mod their Switch.

Those are the kinds of jump cancels that OP was talking about, though.

Fun is subjective

Ganondorf played fine in Brawl, but then
>HE NEEEEEEEEDS TO FLOAT AND SHOOT MAGIC BALLS BCUZ OOT REEEEEEEEEE
for no fucking reason. Ultimate Ganondorf is more fun to play.

And then kept going and ruined it. All they had to do was balance Brawl and tweak some stuff. They should have focused on implementing new characters instead of doing the above because autism over characters not pulling enough from that one game they were in 20 years ago. Why not just make your own game if you're going to change that much.

Because it was change for the sake of change, it was a waste of their time and resources
This is why they should have just focused on their new characters

>HE NEEEEEEEEDS TO FLOAT AND SHOOT MAGIC BALLS BCUZ OOT REEEEEEEEEE
Why are you seething so fucking hard about this that you have to project anyone implementing an attack as being this angrily autistic?

The reason is obviously to give Ganondorf stronger movement options, something that holds him back as a character and keeps him in low-tier, while remaining faithful to his character.

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>melee pika with ultimate dair
based and axepilled.
>melee sheik with bouncing fish
fuck.

>Because it was change for the sake of change
Obviously not, because most people who played PM prefer the PM characters to their original movesets.

Lucas was turned into boost simulator, and removed one of the best edgegaurd tools in the game because of it. This is kinda excusable because PK Freeze was hot ass in Brawl and 4, but Ultimate showed outright removing it was not the best discourse and that it could be salvaged
Pokemon Trainer... doesn't exist. by virtue, he is not better than his Ultimate version, because PM removed him and his archetype Rob's burner revamp and removal of aerial Arm Rotor hurt his ability to contest others in the air a lot, despite the new one giving him more escape options. arm Rotor was another PK Freeze situation, but once again Ultimate showed it could be fixed

>Bro just stop having an opinion I disagree with XD
Nah, hang yourself

Clearly most players agree, given that PM is dead and buried and Melee and Ultimate are doing fine.

>Change for the sake of change.
The new moves gives every character that was lacking options and abilities more, stronger, and interesting abilities.

That's not change for the sake of change, that's just a straight up upgrade.

>Bro just stop having an opinion I disagree with XD
You have serious projection problems. Stop getting mad.

So why aren't they still playing it

>buy a complete game
>make a shitty mod for it
>try to force a cult following
these nerds should either make their own game, or just play the fucking game nintendo made, they're clearly obsessed with it it can't be that bad

L-Cancelling is not possible: everyone is fucking lagless in this game retard
Also, the modder it's again the implementation of L-cancelling (he wants PM tourneys with auto L-cancel on), and if he can, he would erase the FE squad and Olimar from the game.

Why does Project M's existence make so many people seethe?

shit, pretend Rob's point was put on the next line

Some reworks movesets like kirby,sonic and lucario were cool,but others (marth,fox,falco) were just them re-introducing melee bullshit and others (lucas,charizard) were just annoying cancer.

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sauce me up on that, last thing i remember from whoever was making a PM in ult was just changing values and not actually implementing their own things like PM did.

>implying the exPMDT will let Nyx use their animations for his shitty clone
They didn't allow it in Smash 4, and they're definitely not gonna allow it now

Who cares about those losers?

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>Stop getting mad
>Posts anime reaction images and gets mad at others having different opinions
Again, all they had to do was tweak some stuff. They didn't need to change half the cast's moves, they just needed to balance what was there.

because muh sakurai. If smash was a pc series then PM would have a yearly tournament worth 20 mil by now

L-cancelling should just always happen, there's no situation in which you do not want to L-cancel, its just an extra input, there's no trade-off or anything

I can think of zero(0, nada, zip, zilch) people who had problems with Lucas, Pit, and ROB's moveset from a conceptual standpoint. Those upgrades are useless when the moveset itself wasn't a problem to being with

>If smash was a pc series then PM would have a yearly tournament worth 20 mil by now
PM is playable on PC

Where's that 20 mil tourney?

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I would have liked Project M less if they did just balance what was there.

Also what you want already fucking exists, it's called Brawl+.

guess what? it didn't take off.

Why not just play the mod that did what you want instead of complaining about PM? PM wasn't and still isn't the only brawl mod made or played.
>all the jankyness of Melee turned up to 12 without the necessary precision
Wanna elaborate without buzzwords?

meant for >DMC5: *exceed exists*
>everyone loves it despite the fact there's literally no reason not to exceed

>smash: *L-canceling exists*
>casuals scream about how it's shit

playable on pc =/= pc series

Ganon was bad in Brawl because he was slow and just couldn't approach or get in, along with the general problems of being a large, heavy character that gets chaingrabbed and juggled easily. That's all they needed to change, make him move faster, better DI in the air, make some of his moves come out faster, remove landing lag, maybe tweak some hitboxes and their duration(s), and he'd have been fine.

A Distinction without a difference

>dude just take ganondorf and make him captain falcon
is this nigga serious?

Project M was good because it mixed techniques from Smash 64, Melee, Brawl and original ones in order to ve it's own thing and because they decided to tweak characters one by one and only release them when they were ready. If the people behind this simply want to turn Ultimate into Melee they can go fuck themselves.

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L-cancelling is shit from both a casual AND competitive standpoint. In casual, it just means you have to suffer though longer landing times. in competitive, it's nothing but busy inputs for something that is literally essential to compete. it's one button press, but it's a useless one that you have to push nearly every time you land in order to stand a chance. Ultimate's approach to removing a ton of lag on aerials is unironically much better, and some character like Mewtwo and Pichu even have less lag than if they L-Cancelled in Melee.
Hell, a few notable pros agree that L-Cancelling is shit, so don't pull this "Waaah CASUALS" mentality

They gave him a cape reflector and taunt sword attack at least...

PM is jankier and has much more forgiving windows for things like techs and perfect shields, it requires less precision in general. It's Brawl's physics engine being shoved in a Melee-sized box, its just not quite the same as the real thing.

one key difference is PC games have the built in expectation of modding that isn't tampered with by the developer. There are countless games that started out as mods. You can't even stream PM on the biggest platform without nintendo putting their boot up your ass

Exceed changes the move entirely and DMC is a single player game where you fight vs AI, not players. Horrible example, I mean I like L-canceling but there are plenty of reasons for it to not be implemented and plenty of pros that also agree that it's just a waste.

>jankier
What did I say about buzzwords? And how does less precision mean less """""""jank"""""""? Can you explain without being a complete idiot?

L-cancelling is shit, sorry. There's no situation in which you do not want to L-cancel. There's no strategic trade-off, you either do it every single time or you're at a huge disadvantage. Its shit for casuals because they'll just land with lag every time and its shit for competitive for the above reasons.

What's wrong with having wider input windows? This isn't a rhythm game, you don't need 2-frame inputs.

Can't wait to see my boy Knuckles

Why is exceed good but L-canceling is bad?

when will people learn that project M exist and is played because these players wanted a game for themselves, not a game that depends of others, this is why some modders created icons, but as you can see that didn't work because players doesn't want to play games that aren't the ones they start playing, this is why you see nostalgia for brawl even if the game did have serious issues.

user...

>muh clones
Yeah let's just ignore the different frame data, hit boxes, knockback, startups, endlag, damage and literally everything that isn't the move's animation!

Ganon and Falcon play nothing a like.

>its a buzzword because I say so
Look up what the word fucking means you muppet.

Its janky because its a fan-made mod, its not particularly polished and it shows often.

Yes. And you're asking that, in order to solve the issue of Ganon being bad, just turn him into captain falcon by making him faster.

I don't know what exceed is, why are you talking about fucking DMC5

DMC5 is not a competitive multiplayer game

>Its not particularly polished
This is the most absurd criticism of Project M I've ever heard. It's more polished than literally any other brawl mod in existence.

>I don't know what exceed is [because I've never played DMC]
Your shit taste explains why you want to make games you like worse.

>that project M exist
>not a game that depends of others
ESL pls go, we all know you dirty third-worlders loved PM because you already pirate everything and the PS2 and Wii were/are your most accessible consoles.

How does increasing an input window for things that are 1-2 frames make the game less polished? Are you done being retarded or are you ready to give an actual answer?

>Just turn him into Falcon
Well Falcon was ass in Brawl too, so no, that's not at all what I'm suggesting. Falcon has setups, combos and follow-ups Ganon still wouldn't have. Just making Ganon's moves come out faster and have less endlag isn't going to magically make him play just like Falcon.

>If I only compare it to other Brawl mods its polished
Nice try, but its noticeably less polished than the actual games

Honestly, Project M was held back by trying to be consistent with Brawl's artstyle and animations.
Animation work in Smash were hot garbage until 4, where it became decent. Ultimate's animation is legitimately a new industry standard in my eyes.

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It's as polished as 64/melee/brawl but that's mostly because those had poor animations too. Smash 4/Ultimate have better animations by virtue of being newer.

Also

>How does increasing an input window for things that are 1-2 frames make the game less polished?
Didn't say they did you fucking moron, those are two separate thoughts you're conflating because it fits your narrative.

Shit like this is not polished
The animations and moves they changed and created are often janky, same goes for a lot of the custom stages, UI, etc. Because its a fan-made mod.

>An unfinished animation from an unfinished character that wasn't even in a playable state is unpolished
Do you seriously believe what you are saying?

>It's as polished as 64/melee/brawl
No, its fucking not, just stop.

I wish these autists would stop trying to “fix” everything to be just like Melee and instead just add characters and stages to the game. Maybe make a handful of changes overall to fix some glaring issues with an underpowered character

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>shit like this is not polished
That isn't even in PM you fucking idiot and it's also clearly a WIP you absolute fucking idiot. But yeah I guess I was mixing up that jank and input window thing, so do you want to tell me what exactly is jank now or are you just gonna keep on saying "it's jank" without any specifics? Let me know so I don't have to keep wasting my time.

Every character they added looks awkward during some animations and is in general less-polished than the characters from the actual game, that was just the only example posted ITT.

Show me the half-finished characters in the official games. Oh, right, there aren't any, because they shipped as largely finished, polished games. You can't tell me fucking Knuckles in PM is up to snuff with the actual characters in the official games in terms of presentation and polish.

Project M obviously puts a lot of effort and focus into being polished. That's partly why so many people like it and compare it to the real games.

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No, PM is da bestest Smash EVAR and if you disagree ur autism XD

>Show me the half-finished characters in the official games.
This is a distraction and doesn't matter.

Your claim is that the characters and animations project m added look awkward/unpolished. Aside from the newer taunts added to 3.6, which I agree do look unpolished, none of the characters/animations look unpolished or awkward.

Knuckles in PM isn't even finished you fucking idiot, why do you keep on referencing stuff that are a work in progress?
By the way here's your polish you braindead moron
youtube.com/watch?v=K6_Zlata6so

Its great for a mod, but again compared to the actual games their original content is not on the same level

>You can't tell me fucking Knuckles in PM is up to snuff with the actual characters in the official games in terms of presentation and polish.
Because he was never finished. PMBR was disbanded before he, Lin, Isaac and Maki could be finished.

To add, I can get why they’d overhaul Brawl more considering how egregiously slow and casual-focused it was, but Ultimate’s hit a really good point for speed and mechanics

It is, though, and in fact in a lot of ways, they're upgrades compared to brawl.

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>I disagree
I, too, disagree.

youtube.com/watch?v=J3uw4hxOYDc

This looks good considering its a mod, but the characters are a little stiff and awkward

Not him, but this was fixed in 3.0.
Also, wasn't this argument about animation? This is more of a hitbox issue

These are UNFINISHED CHARACTERS.

THEY WERE NEVER RELEASED

I find it funny how you bring up the characters that were never released vs the characters that were, like Mewtwo and Roy.

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>Stop referencing janky, unfinished work in the mod when you're citing examples of janky, unfinished work!

Never have I seen a fanbase get autistically angry over a fucking mod. Smash players are fucking retards.

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>It doesn't count because I say so

lol

>posts more unfinished wip stuff
Fucking idiot
Yes it was fixed but let me quote
>"there aren't any, because they shipped as largely finished, polished games."
And this is about polish, not animations in general. Anyways, dude is a retarded who keeps on posting unfinished things and saying how unfinished it is.
What the fuck are you talking about, Knuckles never released, he was not in PM at any point. What we got was unfinished assets from when PM development stopped.

Those characters were never fucking released. This would be like the equivalent of someone leaking the beta of a game that's supposed to be released a year from now and then saying the game is janky because of the janky beta.

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It doesn't count because it's not in the game.

ultimate is boring. They sped the game up in completely shallow ways like straight buffing frame data or damage and the game lacks interesting nuance because of it. I've never seen a game with so many top tiers that are an utter bore to play as

ignoring animations, holy shit those are some boring movesets.
I don't even play Advance Wars but I can still tell that girl represents the bare minimum

Can you give an example of unpolished content that was actually in the final release of Project M, and not leaked development builds?

You can, though, the taunts they added in 3.6 were actually pretty bad. Other than that, though.

She was barely even started on, you can tell she's still a snake clone. This is unreleased leaked content.

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youtube.com/watch?v=yMd6wAoqsJ4

Mewtwo looks stiff, blocky and aesthetically doesan't fit well in the game because its based on the Melee model. He is more well-animated and presented in general in Melee, 4 and Ultimate.

Okay user. The only thing I’ll agree with is the input buffering, which is absolute bs

Oh, and the input delay, which is bad but serviceable. Could be better

>2013 video
They updated his animations, models, and moveset since. Why are you doing this, replies? Have fun with my last one then.

Aside from the fact this is 3.0 and not the latest version, what exactly is wrong with these animations? They look great to me.

>This also doesn't count because I say so

Knuckles' is boring and he's nearly, if not completely, finished.
He doesn't even seem to wank Battle off that much, which is weird considering the PM devs did exactly that with Sonic

>Knuckles' is boring and he's nearly, if not completely, finished.
How can you quantify this when he was never actually released

They look stiff, as I said in that post already

It looks great for a fan mod but Mewtwo was presented better in the official games, more fluid and dynamic animations, better textures and color palette that fit the aesthetic of the given game better

his animations were literally ported from melee
stupid fucking retard

Not him, but he has point of Mewtwo's model itself, animations aside
This was well into the DS era, and Mewtwo had had his head reduction surgery since Gen 3. There was no reason to not at least fix that if they were going to update his overall appearance to fit Brawl

I just want a build with proper jump momentum

>Ganondorf played well in Brawl
LOL

But they did fix his model and gave him a sick alternate outfit.

>Ganondorf played fine in Brawl
Actual retard

No? His head, even in the current builds, is still massive compared to his modern appearence.
I can appreciate the gesture of the costume, but this isn't really justifiable. It feels a bit like Melee pandering rather than making sure the character is accurate to their games

Ah I getcha, misunderstood what was said there. Yeah his head is still hueg but I'm not too sure if it's just Melee pandering or if that ratio looks good for smash itself. Some characters in smash are resized for smash itself afterall

are they adding new game modes?

>Modders never found out how to add slots in 4
>Most likely aren't going to pull it off here either
Modding is suffering

Well, it doesn't bother me too much.
I just feel Mewtwo's modern design lends itself better, kinda like a reverse Ganon situation.
God, Twilight Princess Grannydorf looked awful in Smash

Same for Ultimate.

Give me a rundown on the state of Smash Ultimate modding scene. What can and can't be done in the game?

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Ultimate has 100 slots apparently so unless we get more fighter passes they have plenty of room

Smash bros players are the single most autist swarm of losers on the whole internet.

Right, so something a few fans cobbled together looks less polished than the character in the game they ripped it from.

Recolors and adding music is possible.
Unlike Brawl, adding new skins for the characters is hard and requires a lot of time.
Moveset mods are possible, but are extremely hard to pull out.
I'm referring to add new slots for mod custom characters, something is impossible to do currently.

>bronies
>Sonic
>neet culture in general
>alt-right
Nah

just give me pajama Ness, lobster shirt Toon Link, and Mr L Luigi

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I mained him, he did play fine. He needed things like frame data, startups/endlag and his movement speed/DI tweaked, that's it, that's all any of the characters needed.

They could go all out on this shit in the official game, and they just don’t, which is a real shame. Limiting to 8 colors per character is strange

Its likely a lot more work than most people realize, there's a good 76 characters

Hopefully they'll add some more later as not-paid DLC

reminder that Pajama Ness only exists in the US version of Earthbound, and thus has an astronomically low chance of becoming an official outfit

Don't forget about the best altskin ever made.

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>Project M for Smash Ultimate
Why do people insist on doing this? Project M was project m end of story. There is no ""Project M for Smash Ultimate"" unless the dev team magically decided to get back together and make one.

Looks like a Mii Costume, which it should be

>Ultimate Chimera Pajama Lucas
>mfw This will never be real
granted, Lucas already has a pair of pajamas in his home game, but still FUCK

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Ex-Sm4sh Modder here, The community was absolutely fucking shit, By the time we even had anything close to it (As far as I know) It was already late last year. And no one's used it. Sm4sh modding was absolute shit.

that looks so fucking soulless wtf?
where did all the soul go?
pls have sex and take a shower

WiiU modding was pretty disappointing in general, especially when you compare it how how amazing modding was on Wii.

FPBP

back to your shithole meleegro

Yeah, Wii U in general was worse at everything, I blame the heavy failure of modding on how filled up the Modding scene of the Wii U was with Kids, It was like everyday there was some new fucking idiot kid making shitty imports for Sm4sh Modding, At least 3DS Modding was decent.

Part of the problem is that no one bought Wii U, whereas basically everyone owned a Wii

Why are you upset that fans made a moveset more fun and more accurate to Wario's games?

What makes me more dissapointed is the fact that you can have specific voice clips and lines for characters, so your supposed FE character isn't using Marth's voice.

one and done

And Ultimate mod community is somewhat more disappointing and lacking than 4.

Good. Project M faggots can hang

Am I going to have my brother delete all my custom stages again to install it AGAIN?

PM is better than Melee you nog

Can Project M Implement Spirits?

>make their own game, or just play the fucking game nintendo made
Both happened and both Brawl and Icons are shit for different reasons.
PM Character design and physics with Brawl's content is the best Smash game ever. Flat out.

Take that back, PM Lucas is so God damn fun

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Smash 4 and U. overall Mod scene is not influenced by PM, one thing that comes in mind when modding smash are the custom skins, imports or moveset mods, all which pales in comparison to Brawl's.