Why do people say this game has good quests?

And Skyrim has the best daedric quests

This. Oblivion is the absolute best open works RPG ever made when the main question is ignored
>cities feel alive with NPC schedules and sidequests
>guilds feel connected to every day life in the game
>11/10 music
>actually lives up to "live another life in another world."
>modern day rpgs have more in common with GTA than TES/Gothic
Real fucking shame.

>cities feel alive
Seeing eight people in the streets of the Imperial City makes it look fucking dead
Oblivion has a lot of problems and I'm saying as this as someone who put hundreds of hours into it when it came out

Because it did have good quests. Compared to Skyrim, certainly. And its main quest did suck. The other ones were fine, though.

Praising Oblivion is mainly a reaction to Skyrim kiddies though. It was no Morrowind when it came out, and a lot of people were upset that they'd focused on the wrong things during development, and ignored all of the setting to make a really generic map. If they only knew.

I've played this game for 2000 hours and only done the main quest once

I haven't played Morrowind. How are the quests in that game?

Oblivion had good quests, when compared to Skyrim, because they weren't as formulaic as Skyrim's.

Oblivion's were all handcrafted from start to finish, while Skyrim's (not all, but seemly most) relied on the new "dynamic" quest system which only changes the location of an item or enemy.

Boring.
Not because of the quests themselves, but the gameplay surrounding them.

Ha ha ha yeah ok kid
>go to the back of this cave/fort/barrow
>fight forsworn/bandits/drauger
>get item/npc
>do this with every prince save sanguine

No elder scrolls game has ever had a good main quest.
Also Mage's Guild is pure shit. I tried playing it again for the achievements the other day, and even found out that shit is glitched and you can miss out on some of them if you somehow accepted the next quest before you were the correct advancement rank to accept it.

It's AT LEAST 12

And they were still more interesting than the Daedric quests in the other games

It really does just need randomly-generated NPCs. It'd help with leveling stuff like Pickpocket, too. Had a mod for Skyrim like that.

I enjoy Daggerfall

I don't understand Skyrim's quest design philosophy.
How the quests play out, it feels "arcadey" with its focus on combat as a solution to every challenge, and its linear dungeon design that prioritises convenience over immersion.

The only problem is with this design is that Skyrim's gameplay (in this case combat) is poor.

You obviously have poor tastes, or just being spiteful.

>I used to have this thing with Todd, because he was one of the ones that’s like, “Let’s not make it too weird.” So I’d bamboozle him. There was a period where I would actually draw two different versions of a monster — the one that was weird and that I wanted to be in the game, and then one that was fucking crazy. And so I’d go to Todd, and I’m like, “OK, I think I’ve got the mid-level creature set.” And I’d show him a picture. He’d be like, “Nah, dude, that’s crazy.” Then I’d go back to my office and I would act like I was drawing something new, and I’d just come back with the original drawing of what I really wanted to be in there. Like, “Hey, is this what you were thinking?” And he’d be all, “Oh, yeah, that’s much better. That’s great.”

>It went 180 with Oblivion. Because Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Rings was coming out, and it was fucking great. And since technology had come so far, Todd was like, “We’re gonna make that. We’re gonna go back to traditional fantasy.”

-Michael Kirkbride

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I'm amazed people find this game to be good at all. Morrowind is better in almost every way

I agree with this. Skyrim's combat was simply bad, yet they designed nearly every quest and dungeon to include lots of it. Quests should involve more exploration and investigation, which would put the open world design to good use. Skyrim winds up being a linear corridor shooter with a walking simulator between shooter sections. There's only one challenging puzzle in the entire game, and NOTHING that requires complex problem solving.

Morrowind is shit - okay?
I snapped the Xbox disc up into 6 pieces and began pissing on them.

Well good, you should have been playing on PC

So you have not played Morrowind and/or Oblivion, and sure as hell not Daggerfall.

>make khajits think the world is ending
>make an old man break his vow of non violence
>hunt a unicorn
>free a bunch of ogres
Nah bro.

Then I would've shitted and cummed on the disk, too.

I like the idea of being the supreme emperors secret weapon. A force of nature who conquers even the realm of daedra and comes out on top of every fight. You're not the emperor but you're the very reason he's alive.
You're like the black butler, you're like a nuke. You just get shit done.

Also i enjoyed the mages guild because it was comfy but then I dawned on me the more subtle message behind the mages guild. The whole place is a sham, there are very few actual wizards and the whole system isn't designed for good wizards to come out on top, it's designed for politicians to succeed. You got in because you did favours and recieved recommendations for the guild leaders, then complete a series of odd jobs until you stumble your way to the top, and only due to multiple deaths where a position becomes available, and also due to the fact that nobody wants to take up the position, you become arch mage.
It's clever, it's a sarcastic sort of achievement. You really could have become arch mage and never get further than apprentice with any school in magic. It's a great wuest chain but it's not for everyone.

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>Morrowind is shit

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Do you know what the definition of "facetious" means?

They’re mostly good compared to Skyrim. The Companions’ hall is the same size as any given Fighters Guild hall in Oblivion which had one in every city. College wasn’t much better. And the questlines for each guild were like 5 quests long when in Oblivion it was like 20.

Oblivion is a bad game.
>level up
>get weaker

If you like weird DUNE like fantasy. I like my lord of the rings fantasy. Stay on your side of the fence.

It's not near as shitty as 4 or 5

The Dark Brotherhood has the best questline in both Oblivion and Skyrim.

Why Bethesda haven’t attempted to make a Hitman style assassination game similar to those questlines is beyond me.

But dude you can do ENDLESS shitty radiant assassination missions in Skyrim!

>Theives guild was kind of cool
That's literally the worst written quest line in all TES games.

Why didn't Corvus just use all those years to infiltrate the palace as a janitor, or a palace guard. Or bribe a monk to just take the scroll? No, instead he roleplayed as a thief to come up with the stupidest plan for a heist of all time, which would have failed 100% if you weren't a literal god. What a retard.

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>a literal god
Negro, I just wore some shoes and shot a bow.

It wouldn't be until ESO that a good Elder Scrolls game came out.

Bait.

That aside though, even the Skyrim DB questline was great.

>having to do low tier hits before eventually taking jobs from the Night Mother herself
>that mission where you have to follow the Commander’s son around the map
>infiltrating a ship to kill the emperor himself

That last one was particularly memorable for me because a dragon flew overhead while I was on the deck and I used it to take out all the guards without me doing a thing.

Maybe of Bethesda downscaled their games to focus solely on being an assassin, they’d make a more polished game.

What about the fact that you had to sneak in into the palace as well? What about all the monster down there? What about the guardians that attack you at the final door? How is a thief supposed to take care of that? Realistically, you have a higher chance of surviving by just barging in the front door of the palace and running up the floors.

>ESO
>good
Moshi moshi, daedric bait desu.

>What about the fact that you had to sneak in into the palace as well? What about all the monster down there? What about the guardians that attack you at the final door? How is a thief supposed to take care of that?
Sneaking in Oblivion literally can't fail as long as you just don't stand in light and aren't wearing heavy armor.
If you think it's a "godly" feat, that speaks more about you than it does the game.

Actually take a step back and look at this quest line objectively. What you are doing and what you're trying to accomplish. And then tell me that it's literally anything other than something from a children's cartoon. It's complete nonsense.

I'm not talking about the game mechanics, I'm talking about how that looks from a writing perspective.

friendly reminder that skyrim was the best elder scrolls game by far and its exponentially more true with mods.

wait a minute
you had to sneak
for a thieve's guild questline...?

those radiant quests are fun though

How is "the second-highest ranked member of the thieves guild sneaking past a few palace guards and two monsters" bad writing?

Oblivion has to be the most shittest game for doing a stealth backstab/archer build. My bosmer level 20 thief with 100 sneak, blade, marksman and strength takes between 8 to 15 attacks to kill one skeleton, lich or specter and doesn't help that every dungeon in this game is a just series of long corridors and rooms packed with these damage sponges. Playing default difficulty ftr.

However I found mage way too easy when making your own spells and fighter to be an ok balance as long as you choose a warrior race and star sign.

because there are actual quests unlike skyrim where you sneeze and become arch mage

thieves guild is an actual heist not a fucking assassination
fighters guild is an actual guild not 5 dudes
mages guild has mages not 2 apprentices and a library

I’m still baffled that the Thief’s Guild questline in Skyrim is 90% dungeon crawling. The radiant quests/ individual hold heists are better than anything else than questline has to offer.

Because, objectively, it is easier to sneak to the same floor it takes you to from the front entrance of the palace. Why the guildmaster even considered such a plan is what I find stupid.

the thing is oblivion quests are only good when you compare them to skyrim but in the grand scheme of things, they're pretty shit.

not including that skyrim is superior to oblivion at everything else

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If you "objectively" try to think about it, it makes you look even more retarded. Not just because you're trying to "objectively" think about a game series where a moon is made of liquid cheese that turns into magic juice at night, but because there's no reason that a master thief cursed with magic powers thinking that his non-magic cohort who is good enough to replace him shouldn't be hiring that person to do a stealth job.

Mages guild was pretty good user. Fighters kinda sucked, only good missions were the ones fighting the black company or whatever they were called.

Maybe that's why he became a tranny

Ho hum, I'm dumb, I can't play Oblivion

You're a retard. I'm obviously talking about everything that's possible within the bounds of the lore. His plan is stupid if you consider the odds of what transpired, versus what he could have done instead to get the scroll that would have had a way higher chance of succeeding.

I'm just criticizing the writing here. If you have no arguments, don't reply to me.

Kill yourself

>within the bounds of the lore.
That makes you even stupider, because "in the lore" the player can be born under The Shadow where they can turn invisible once a day. So "in the lore" he can just turn invisible, run through the palace, get under it, fall asleep for a day by drinking a paralysis poison, then wake up, turn invisible again, and run past all of the monsters.

You're talking about backstabbing skeletons, liches, and specters. Let's parse this: skeletons have no internal organs/vital spots, plus stabbing a skeleton, not clubbing; liches are monstrously powerful undead, again, no true vital points to speak of, which is the point of a backstab because you're supposedly targeting vitals; a specter, which is a fucking spirit.
I understand what you're complaining about but you chose absolutely terrible examples of enemies to try to convey your point.

not interested in discussing realism in a game with mutants and ghouls

Yeah. Then, why aren't you given the option to do that?

>THERES MAGIC SO YOU CANT POINT OUT FLAWED WRITING I WIN
kys

the main quest is brilliant.

lifting the vale is probably my favourite side quest.

as for the guild quests, dark brotherhood followed by thieves guild.

You can.

>He doesnt want to take part in a mission impossible tier convoluted plan to steal some cool shit from a bunch of blind idiots.
It's like you're not even a thief

>Ho hum, I'm dumb, I made a game completely built around scalar content and didn't bother to actually balance it at all.

>Ho hum, I'm dumb, I think it's good to have the player actively fight the leveling system I made

because that's what some people think.

Making your own enchanted shit and buying broken items makes it totally doable. If everyone is broken, nobody is.

Morrowind was fun for exploring what felt like a dangerous and alien world, with tons of detail, Oblivion was fun for the side quests and comfy countryside strolls, and Skyrim was middling in every aspect.

Daggerfall was fun for clipping through dungeon floors and losing an hour of progress.

You can't unless you take the special path. There's a magical Bethesda door that you can't unlock leading to the higher floors of the palace, so canonically, you still indulged in the ridiculous plan Corvus made up.

the only thing bethesda are good at is making you feel like a hero doing cool stuff

otherwise the writing is bad, the gameplay is shallow and the every system is broken

I don't see how that conflicts with what I stated. My plan was already following Corvus's plan, so it just sounds like you're moving goalposts after being shown that, from both a gameplay and lore standpoint, that you're a fucking retard.

All you have to do is not put your actual skills as major skills and then your power isn't tied to your level. God they did such a shit job with level balance. Which wouldn't be a big deal, except the whole game scales its content to your level.

>why do people say this game has good quests
>dark brotherhood and thieves guild are good
You just answered your own question.

Everybody knows the fighters/mages guilds and main quest suck but TES writing/quest design never got better than the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild lines.

This really didnt phaze me when I was playing it. I always made or found stupid powerful shit, even a dagger with paralysis for 1 sec is totally fucked.

I wonder what an RPG would be like if you took out the built in maps and journal stuff

Try playing a pure mage. It's a complete shitshow.

Worse than that, the Skyrim guild is
>Gary stu prick magically knowing exactly how much money you're carrying
>Actual thievery, picking a lock and then (reverse) pickpocketing a ring--except you can fail this and still be accepted to the guild
>Being a common thug by breaking a pot, threatening to throw a statue down a well, threatening to deport a lizard
>Stealing a deed to a meadery or something and then burning down exactly 3 beehives, where there is no bonus for sneaking and no penalty for full murderhoboing everyone in your way
>Shutting down a different meadery by poisoning its mead the day the health inspector comes, again in a method where you can freely murderhobo under the assumption that said health inspector would give ownership to the literal next guy he sees
>An actual stealth mission... which you actually can murderhobo without any repercussions, despite what you might think from where you are (the normal guards are replaced by mercenaries for the mission so it's not a crime to kill them)
>A cutscene where gary stu and mary sue act like idiots; Karliah should have shot Mercer, Mercer should have cut your head off before bouncing
>What is basically piracy by making a copy of a book, again in a mission where city guards are replaced with mercenaries
>Convincing the guild that some random bitch getting some random idiot to translate some random book with some random inscription that she is telling the truth, this was the old guildmaster's book, and he wrote down everything in Falmer
>Some light breaking and entering
>Selling your soul to the Daedric Prince of bitchiness in an offering to get some trash armor
>Typical dungeon delve except you have two idiotic non-stealthy followers, culminating in a gary stu cutscene boss
>Typical dungeon delve but with more puzzles than normal where you give up the most useful artifact to any thief and in return gain... fucking nothing.
You can bulldoze through in heavy armor and a greataxe and miss nothing.

>Enchant fancy clothes with whatever
>make spell that does whatever
I played mostly mage or spellsword and had a great time of it, I know its subjective but it wasn't that hard for me to enjoy.

>Be me huge morrowfag
>psyched beyond belief for oblivion
>go pure caster
>get to kvatch
>7 spider daedra
>Constantly chugging mana potions can't buy enough
>Stop playing and uninstall

The game punishes you for using its systems as intended, fucking garbage for an RPG

I think it was when I was running around Riften extorting people for money that I began to question whether I was in a thief’s guild or a mafia. The fact that the final mission is to kill the antagonist is also tone deaf.

It’s still worth it for obtaining literary the best stealth gear in the game though.

>Constantly chugging mana potions
so it's just like Morrowind

>what is Dishonoured

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I played that game.
It was fucking trash.

It penalties you for killing, but only has weapons and abilities centred around killing people.
You literally have to kill the the fun of the game to get a good ending.

>base game off of Thief
>remove the blackjack
Fucking stupid.

to everyone complaining about scaling: just do what I did and lower the difficulty down, then the game's combat is fixed
>but its too easy!
The game isn't hard in any settings, the difficulty bar is closer to a boredom bar because the only difference difficulty makes is how many seconds you'll have to left click an enemy and how many potions you have to chug per encounter. I firmly believe anyone who plays any games in this series for the combat is clinically retarded. From Arena to Skyrim all you do is left click, sometimes use spells or be a stealth archer. Even if you play Morrowind as a full mage you're only throwing different colors at the enemies until you need to chug potions

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Still fucks me up that there were basically no limits on any of the guilds at all.

Abuse alchemy to cast a single low-tier spell and grognar your way to Arch-Mage

Become Harbinger of the Companions after swinging one weapon three times and temporarily becoming a werewolf.

Looting Corpses in Full Plate Guild.

I guess you actually have to kill people to proceed in Dark Brotherhood but the entire game is centered around killing and dungeon diving, so who cares.

sounds like you fags need to git gud, Yea Forums has become infested with you casual newshits

yeah that's the whole idea, not only does it reflect the tone that skyrim goes for (less romantic, more gritty), but the idea is that the guild has been taken charge of by an imposter in conjunction with a local crime syndicate (black briars). By joining the guild the temporary guild leader inadvertently leads you to the true thieves guild, i.e. under nocturnal, not maven black briar, hence it was you under the sign of nocturnal all along that brings you to riften to brynjolf, from outside. so the thieves guild are like the mafia because they're not the real thieves guild at that point, reflected also in the state they're in and disillusionment. the thieves guild line might be my favourite in skyrim, i wasn't so keen on the dark brotherhood questline, and even though there are quest markers i really loved sneaking into the estate, great stealth quest, although again the quest markers sort of take some of the fun away from finding your own way in. once marker would have sufficed to lead you to the entrance to the estate, but then it would have been better if you were on your own to do it as you wanted.

Pretty sure you had to kill a few times in Companions to get the shards of wuuthrad.
Thieves Guild was retarded, though. Oblivion kicked you the fuck out if you killed anyone, but Thieves Guild lets you kill literally everyone.

You can kill in the Companions with nancyboy elf spells. No one bats an eyelash.

desu the only real useful enchantments on any thieves guild gear are the fortify barter and pickpocketing ones, for general stealth play, any of the dark brotherhood stuff is better
db at least gave somewhat interesting murders. it was still held back by being in skyrim though, killing the bride would auto aggro guards on you no matter how stealthy you are, even if she is killed through console while you're invisible and hiding 5000 feet away, and it was too focused on side contracts instead of main ones.

My point is that the only assets for non-lethal in Dishonored 1 base game are:
>a choke that takes 3 seconds
>blink
>tier 2 time freeze
>tier 1 possession for rats and fish
>sleep darts
>regular darts, but only for shooting surfaces
At the very least, they should have given you a Blackjack that makes a loud thud but instantly knocks enemies out. The DLC added chokedust, but that still alerts enemies. Tier 2 Possession for possessing humans is worthless in non-lethal because you can't do anything with it and rats are faster.

Where did they ever say that you can't use magic? They were just a mercenary contracting guild. I think you can even use conjured weapons on that tryout part behind the guild hall.

>I like elder scrolls(skyrim or oblivion)
>proceeds to only talk about brotherhood or thieves guild

Maybe these games are really fucking boring and people only want a new good thief or something

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My point was that Bethesda published a linear stealth game as you wanted.

They aren't a Nord nationalist organisation, you fucking retard.

The Morrowind main quest is pretty interesting, even though most of the quests are admittedly pretty shit on their own.

I enjoyed the knights of the nine quest because the armor is DOPE and wearing it in the main quest and in the shivering isles is really iconic

Except you're retarded because the first (you) I got was from I'm pointing out that Dishonored was shit at its premise.

The guy you’re replying too isn’t me.

Yeah, Dishonored is really good, but Arkane developed it.

I’d be interesting to see Bethesda develop a similar style of game, since stealth is always the most useful skill in every Bethesda game.

Because I actually remember Oblivion's quests compared to later Bethesda games and plenty of other big sandbox titles filled with nothing but busywork.

Going inside a painting, helping a paranoid stalker watch his enemies and get more paranoid, helping a mage escape his nightmares, the whole Agatha Christie dark brotherhood quest, buying a haunted house, etc. And don't forget the Shivering Isles.

No one's going to pretend that the game didn't have its flaws, but I still remember it fondly.

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I really don't care, user asked bethesda to release a stealth game and you just called it shit because you're an attention whore who wanted to go off topic. I never played dishonoured and I could give half a shit you opiniated faggot

>user asked bethesda to release a stealth game
Then your entire point is worthless and your post had no purpose, because it was just to snap at me for a false accusation you made.
You are the only retard here, user.

I want games to remove all the fat it has accumulated, seriously. I don't want blacksmithing or alchemy. cut out persuasion if it's just going to be ignored the entire game.

just make good quests and interesting worlds and good characters.

You replied to the wrong person, again.
I'm me.

Shut the fuck up redditor

I find a lot of this is easier to find in games that aren’t RPGs.

Beats whatever Skyrim has.

>mages guild

I don't get all the hate for the mages guild. I was all over that shit. The king of worms was cool as shit. I liked him better as a bad guy than Mankar Camoran. Then you had spell-crafting made available to you. Made some really cool overpowered spells back in the day.

My favorite quest was that one where you steal from 2 villagers making their families kill each other. The sidequests were really fun.

>Shut the fuck up redditor
If by "redditor" you mean someone who enjoys and masturbates to gay porn, then yes, I am a redditor

Its fantastic.
Finger of the Mountains for life.
>cheap 100 drain life spell
>instakill weak shit
>cast weakness to magick with weakness to element
>own anything
If you are saying that magic sucked and rolling a mage was terrible in Oblivion, you obviously dont know what the fuck you are talking about.

is daggerfall worth playing?

Just being a summoner is broken.
>summon oblivion dinosaur
>cast invisibility
You can rush the oblivion gates killing everything like it's nothing.

is daggerfall worth playing?

Mage is literally the most op thing and the only viable thing ultra late game exepct stealth abuse

Larpers man

And also, there's plenty of cute robes to choose from.

>pepper you with "even an elf can have the heart of a Nord" one-of-the-good-ones shit every time you come through
>spends its time trying to reassemble a shitty axe that is famous for its ethnic cleansing powers
>can do literally no Fighting throughout the entire Fighters Guild questline, can in fact stealth summon Dremoras to fight for you while you cower behind a wall
>Guild is cursed by 3 ordinary hagravens, cannot handle it between the 10 of them

No, fuck the Companions.

I don't hate Skyrim, but I blame it for the perceived success of games needing to be a huge open world with an infinite amount of interchangeable filler quests, as opposed to a series of smaller maps with a handful of genuinely interesting quests.

If you like the old HoMM first-person RPG stuff and don't mind the hundreds of bugs, it is very good.

How do I make a good Breton build? It seems like the best way to do a lot of damage is one handed + magic but I like two handed weapons and two handed spells. I have this build now but it’s sucks and I keep dying. Should I go archer mage or battle mage or full mage? I’m going to restart cause I fucked up my perks

Train up conjuration and archery, got a bit up Sneak
Take all the bow damage and zoom-in perks
Take all the bound weapon perks
Get sneak to where you can take the 3x sneak bow attack perk
Enchant all your gear for Muffle, Bow damage

There you go. The best mage build in the game.

Thanks. That’s just not my style though, I like to fight up close and personal. I think I’m just going to have to go with a warrior because I’m stuck in a cave trying to fight vampires and getting rekt. I suck at conjuration because I got the warrior stone instead of the mage stone, thinking, “Bretons are naturally good at spell casting so I don’t need it.”
Then I went on to only increase health and stamina because I was thinking, “Well, I can just enchant all my items and get a ton of magicka.” However, it seems as though leveling up magicka is like leveling up willpower in Skyrim, and I’m pretty damn susceptible to spells. I just want to main destruction, alteration, restoration, two handed, block, enchanting and heavy armor, but I don’t think Bretons can handle that build. Which race handled that type of build the best? I really just want to enchant my magicka rather than level it up too

this i wasted weeks just walking from one end to the other.

>Bretons are naturally good at spellcasting, so I won't pick the power that plays into my strengths
why? why not just play a race better suited to be a warrior?

They’re British just like me and I like battlemages

I thought the mage's guild had a coherent plot al throughout. This is kino af

And STR races are too OP, I want to build up strength slowly because it’s shounen

Bretons get natural 25% resistance to magic damage and their racial power is to absorb 50% of hostile magic, so magicka shouldn't be a problem when you're fighting vampires.

Then again, magic is infamously shit in Skyrim. Why do you want 2H AND Block??

cause the games are easy so you might as well play your favorite race regardless of min max

Also bretons are the best warriors since they can run into mages with less fear anyways

Cause blocking with a 2H weapon is shounen. I just keep getting owned by the vampires because I keep running out of magicka despite having 200 MP

Was it oblivion with the werewolf island dlc, and dwemer satue towns getting fucked up dlc?