Bioshock Infinite

You're making excuses for Ken Levine being shit at game design. You're creating artist intent where there is none. You are writing literal fan fiction. Stop it.

>it's bad on purpose so it's good

fuck you dickhead. argue me wrong. if you look at the way all of the elements come together, it's set up. look at the civil war re-enactment room, the whole thing is the illusory inner conflict of the player as a free agent within a virtual world. comstock being booker from a multiverse who imprisons the child he gambled away makes sense, for him to pay back the debt from his gambling, i.e the realisation that booker is the only one with free agency and only through the player, comstock the ego entity, the character as player of the world which manifests as the tyrannical racist state that worships comstock as a false prophet.

fuck you. you're only thinking of game as product. this is what leads people to hold new vegas in such high regard over 3 for ludicrous reasons. they're both great games but nv fanboys cite "more content and player choice" as the reason nv is better, along with a "more believable world," which makes no sense in the context of games as a mode of expression.

mistaking game's value at price in terms of content, ie game as a product, for anything artistic expressed through player interactivity.

if there was an option to fuck elisabeth in the game Yea Forums would suddenly hold it in high regard as a game with "player choice" and "content."

[Zone] Biocock Infinite.swf

Thanks to Infinite Universes all Elizabeth porn is canon

>more believable world," which makes no sense in the context of games as a mode of expression

What the fuck are you talking about you pretentious twat? No, actually don't answer me, you're just fucking retarded and need to fuck off. "Mode of expression", fuck off with that shit. Making a game bad on purpose does not express anything other than your incompetence.

except no one in their right mind would call bioshock infinite "bad." simplistic maybe, but there's nothing wrong with that.

>ahem
youtu.be/VdNhwb7iuI4

oh what the fuck is this some youtuber acting smart..

>the "plot" of bioshock infinite
>taking the game literally
>but not entirely wrong per se

did you even read my earlier post. the sci-fi multiverse is non literal metaphor. the game is only about nationalism and racism on the surface, everything is a self reflecting veil about what free agency means in a virtual world. the game's politics are only there to explain it's philosophy.

these complaints are entirely retarded. completely. seriously. this guy thinks the game is supposed to be a realistic depiction of racism. this fucking far left faggot.

>than it would in reality
>as if the game posits a real literal world

fucking paddy fuck. there's your racism, prick. happy?

what the fuck

there doesn't need to be anything more than a button prompt to express the illusion of choice in that bit.

get it? a cage or a a free bird..illusion of
choice.

fucking hell. not actually getting that.

>not much into jewelry
>this choice doesn't reflect on me
>this simpleton fuck

fuck fuck fuck.

this paddy's accent is so fucking annoying. whiny fucking irish prick.

>doesn't trust player's to be capable of throwing a baseball
>that's not the idea

it's not even a complaint, why would you want to actually throw the baseball. why would the game think you're too dumb to throw a ball. the game treats you like you're dumb only because you are dumb shit.

illusion of freedom as free agent within the game except as player. restricted to game's parameters, bird or cage, both the same. cage = game, bird = player.

upgrades and powers in this game represent the extremities of the game world as a restriction of the game on the player which gives a sense of freedom.

only in service of the game's completion by the player, but giving the illusion of power of destruction, with is false as all adversaries in a game are illusory, and of the game, and cannot win the game, only the player can, therefore the elixirs and upgrades and guns from vending machines are literally the game playing you.

>no one in their right mind would call bioshock infinite "bad."

It's fucking AWFUL. Shooting feels like shit, enemies are completely boring, the skyhook thing was completely useless and barely integrated into fights, the tonics are uninteresting, Elisabeth is a fucking retarded character and the story is something a 15 year old would call "mindfuck". DUDE FREE WILL MAN, ACTIONS AND CONSEQUENCES BRUH THIS IS SO EPIC AND DEEP JUST LIKE INTERSTELLAR

it's all artistic choice. the skyhook is almost a parody of the idea of time continuation through a pre existing virtual world where all the parameters are set and the only path is the path the player takes.

that liberal arts degree sure is paying off for you huh?

calm down you fucking faggot.

I'm 99% sure you're trolling, but if you're not: How does what you just said make the game better?

liberal arts degree? you fucking prick. you're the one who posted that video of that irish prick who thought it was supposed to be a realistic depiction of a racism.

>it's supposed to be bad, you just don't get it

Learn to distinguish between actual video games made by people for a customer to enjoy and video games made by corporations for the investors to enjoy. I bet you also really liked the newest Avengers movie, right? Or maybe you make a point out of hating Marvel and instead chose DC as your favorite corporation.

it doesn't necessarily make the game more fun for you. that's subjective. whether you feel the mechanics of the game are fun or not is up to you. however, the game has very specific ideas that people miss when they criticise the story, and the gameplay mechanics, whether or not you find them fun, are distinct reflections of those ideas.

so many people dislike the game's story/world,but for all the wrong reasons.

fuck you. i never watched the superhero films.

don't try and fit me into your gamer stereotype image.

you're still thinking of game as a product rather than an art form either way.

infinite is hardly a game made by corporations for the investors to enjoy, whatever the fuck that means. it was clearly made with artistic intent as evidence by the singular ideas that add up into a cohesive whole. look at system shock and you find the same ideas implemented. was cyberspace fun? no. but the idea of going into a pseudo virtual world within an already virtual world was a stroke of brilliance.

You're saying the guns sounding weak, tonics being unimaginative and a gadget first praised as a mode of transport between hubs but then demoted to basically monkey bars on a playground ARE ALL INTENTIONAL and just make the story experience have more facets?

it wasn't mean to give you player choice, but rather present a world in which your sense of free agency is tested against an illusory foe who believes in her own power as a free entity without the parameters set by the virtual world, who is defeated by the player because the player is the only free entity in the game. the metaphor is explicit. same thing with booker and comstock, brought into conflict through the gambling away of a child.

hence pay back the debt, defeat the illusory foe through understanding your own illusory power within the game represented by comstock as anything other than the player playing the game. the game is a self telling story. elisabeth is the guide.

the fact that things were omitted from the original design, like hubs, is itself an artistic choice, illusion of content in a virtual world, of the world as anything other than virtual and in the service of the story. game as purely story. illusion.

same with skyrim. todd's lies are a deliberate artistic choice. the idea of affecting the outcome of the civil war is nonsensical. both the empire and the stormcloaks are reflections of the same tyranny.

yes. besides, i found crows pretty riveting.

if the skyhook represents what i think it does, the player path suspended through a virtual world (the fact that the world floats on platforms is also a deliberate nod to it being a pseudo-world, i.e without grounding, and yet grounded only within the possibilities of the game itself, the platforms interlinked by the skyrails which is the player's path through the world, i.e. the only part of the world that is real except as illusion - reflection of the player's path.

masterful trolling user

i'm not trolling.

the game is deliberately made to look impossible, as a world that can only exist as a game world.

This is still the best FPS of the decade. Everything in it comes together so beautifully. Haven't loved a game so much since.

the very idea of booker fucking elisabeth as anything other than a possibility in the multiverse goes against the game's ideas, as elisabeth represents the fabric of the game itself, she is literally the game's child, as well as the player's child. it's a beautifully poetic. so of course if comstock believes in his own authority over the game world, then he traps elisabeth within the tower, only to be sprung by the player whose authority is real.

so the player as comstock by initiating the game in which the goal is to defeat comstock steals elisabeth by initiating the game in order to save her as the booker in the game, and all elements are one, fractured reflections of the player in a hall of mirrors.

>walking around Columbia for the first time
>the moment where everything goes to hell and the game begins proper
>that painting of Lincoln
>meeting Elizabeth for the first time
>that fucking confrontation in Battleship Bay where the game tricks you and you realize that Irrational thought of EVERYTHING
>the incredible sense of freedom Skylines give you
>tears are the greatest thing since the portal gun and the gravity gun
>SLATE! SLAAAAAAATE!
>every single time the Luteces are on screen
>figuring out what exactly Comstock's power is, and how it fills you with hope to know that you CAN beat him
>witnessing the conditions of Finkton for the first time
>the tragic misunderstanding of the Vox uprising
>actually going into a timeline where you are already dead
>the way the game succeeds at making you feel genuine emotion for Elizabeth, a video game character, like no other game ever did
>controlling the songbird, one of the most empowering moments in gaming
>that BEAUTIFUL ending
>the goddamn amazing swashbuckling gameplay all throughout where everything from guns to vigors to movement feels absolutely perfect
And lest we forget
>Burial at Sea being so fucking amazing it retroactively made slogging through the original Bioshock worth it
I could go on about this game for days. I swear there isn't another game that I spent so much time thinking about and looking back on so fondly. Like, the last game that effected me to this profound level was Half-Life 1.

I love Bioshock Infinite so fucking much, you don't even know. Really looking forward to what Ghost Story Games does next.

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holy shit you are fucking autistic

no you are you fucking dick.

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prove me wrong.

Bioshock Infinite was a mistake, it's worse than the first two in every way.

>but muh waifu
fuck off

>tears are the greatest thing since the portal gun and the gravity gun
literally press X to summon a Y
I realise its bait but you really got me

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they couldn't even keep a coherent main story together.
the skyhook is not a deeper meaning to reflect the concepts of the story. they are not that competent.

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same with people who complain about fallout 3's endings, or that todd lied about the 200 endings.

well not really. the fact that in the original fallout 3 you couldn't continue playing after finishing the game made perfect sense - you aren't supposed to continue playing after the end - that's why it's called an ending. basically when you think about the bible quote from the beginning "i am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end," and the player as the only true authority in the game, the game expresses this as you having to sacrifice yourself as the "good" ending in order for the game to end, as the game only begins with the player, and can only end with the player, so therefore the player sacrificing himself metaphorical for the authority that only exists as the player playing the game. think also about the enclave and colonel autumn believing that a computer is their president, and what that means, essentially a deconstruction of the belief that the game's character, which cannot exist without the player, is the authority of the game, expressed as the computer president which can only be changed by intervention by the player, but which the enclave and colonel autumn believe has authority by itself anyway, representative of believing in authority as a free agent outwith the parameters of the game and not as the player playing the game. same ideas as shodan the computer intelligence believing in its own authority as a character distinct from the game itself, which can only be won by the player.

it all just works.

I really hope everybody in this thread pretending to be an intellectual is actually joking. infinite is one of the most atrocious piles of shit I have ever played, and looking for meaning and beauty in it is Avengers MCU lore tier retarded

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except as i've explained throughout this thread, the main story is coherent, and entirely cohesive when you actually understand what i'm saying.

>the main story is coherent
no it's not. lay off the weed.

oh yeah i love how you took the time to dispute all of the points i made, as if not bothering to do so and simply saying "i'm right" isn't indicative of a complete intellectual failing on your part.

That's his daughter you sick fuck.

>ed to continue playing after the end - that's why it's called an ending. basically when you think about the bible quote from the beginning "i am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end," and the player as the only true authority in the game, the game expresses this as you having to sacrifice yourself as the "good" ending in order for the game to end, as the game only begins with the player, and can only end with the player, so therefore the player sacrificing himself metaphorical for the authority that only exists as the player playing the game. think also about the enclave and colonel autumn believing that a computer is their president, and what that means, essentially a deconstruction of the belief that the game's character, which cannot exist without the player, is the authority of the game, expressed as the computer president which can only be changed by intervention by the player, but which the enclave and colonel autumn believe has authority by itself anyway, representative of believing in authority as a free agent outwith the parameters of the game and not as the player playing the game. same ideas as shodan the computer intelligence believing in its own authority as a character distinct from the game itself, which can only be won by the player.
>it all just work
you're the kind of person who makes a living in academia writing bullshit meaningless papers that will never get referenced or advance human knowledge in any way.

so if you could take the time to differentiate the ideas of bioshock infinite from those ofyour beloved system shock 2 while taking into account the points i've made without referring to meaningless subjective phenomena, then please do so.

yeah but not a genetic daughter, a metaphorical daughter. so of course the idea of booker actually fucking her in the game is abhorrent, but the possibility is not.

oh that's right don't debate me on anything i said, just stab out, that's not indicative of an intellectual failing on your part. if you have understanding, then it goes without say that you would be able to fit your understanding in with my apparent misunderstanding you perceive like a jigsaw, logically, but of course this is Yea Forums, so good games have to be atrocious so Yea Forums can seem smart about something and take an imaginary high ground not afforded to them in real life.

You can make all the points you want you dumb fuck, you can look for all the meaning you can find, the game is still shit.
>Fucked up pathetic weapons
>fucked up pathetic weapon system
>Inconsistent world
>Linear as all fuck
>randomised perks
>Story thinks its way smarter than it is
>Elizabeth being sheltered all her life should be an autistic shut in girl, not a chirpy lovable hot strong woman
>The game uses portals in the most basic least interesting way
>The story uses portals to change shit up without having to put the work into showing us how anything changed
>The game has themes too big for it to tackle (i.e. slavery)
>You can jump from skyrail to skyrail to a 50 meter drop like nothing, but when you're on ground theres fucking fall damage
>fucked up game economy
>The worst boss fight in the history of boss fights, the ghost
>Song bird hyped up only to be an extremely disappointing tower defence gimmick
>The game recycles textures to a degree that I am yet to see
God there is so much shit about this game. I could genuinely go on for hours. I really fell for the hype, I loved bioshock 1, and while I didn't love bioshock 2, it was still a good game. There was so much promise in infinite, and so little was delivered. You you genuinely love the game then all the more power to you, but personally it was the last game I ever preordered and will forever be one of my biggest disapointments in gaming

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i don't have to look for the meaning, the meaning is made explicit, the game is the meaning. don't you see?

the world is completely consistent if you don't take it literally and understand it as metaphor.

>Elizabeth being sheltered all her life should be an autistic shut in girl, not a chirpy lovable hot strong woman

see, taking the game and characters literally. you're the dumb fuck. oh all those figures of greek mythology would be traumatised by all the ideals they had to go through. the figures in the game are all mythological entities. think of the false prophet comstock, and lucifer the fallen angel in hell chained for thinking his power greater than that of god, and christ as the son of god (the player), but not as literal entitites but adversaries to tell the story, purely metaphorical entities.

and actually part of the idea is that elisabeth is somewhat sympomatic of autism, but only as figment of it and not a literal character separate from the rest of the game. also "muh strong woman" projecting much? the game is not an sjw shitfest, you're literally just saying what anyone else would say. it's become automatic. if mysteries of the sith were made today people would automatically be calling sjw strong female woman shit or whatever out, it's ridiculous.

every point you brought up is either wrong, comes from lack of understanding through taking the game and the game world literally, or is just you saying absolutely nothing by saying the game thinks it's smarter than it is, which is entirely a projection from you.

the slavery in the game is non literal, and again manifestation within the game world of comstock's false authority, belief in his own separate authority over the world of the game. it's not supposed to tackle slavery, except in the abstract, ie false idea of authority that leads to things like racism/enslavement/sadism.

oh yeah no fall damage from falling on the ground, again literal game world, that fall is metaphor for player authority, the character saved by the very fact that's he's the player, not the character, the game telling the story by taking control away as much as giving it.

faggot

*ordeals they had to go through

>video games made by corporations for the investors to enjoy
That was Bioshock 2 and it still BTFOed Infinite in just about every category

once again, someone saying something without actually saying anything. interesting that so far no one has even tried to debate me on any of my points.

>basically system shock.
> lack of choice the game presents is an artistic choice

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Ok I'll bite retard. Here is a list of many of the things Bioshock 2 does better than Infinite
>Huge dungeons to explore gives the player variety in how and when they want to tackle objectives over Infinite's mostly liner hallways
>No random power up equipment
>You can carry more than two guns at a time giving more combat options
>Foregoes a twist and instead actually gives the player choices that effect how your daughter grows up
>Choices aren't black and white morality checks (mostly)
>Choices on how to grow Delta's abilities over Booker's (gun deals more damage)
>No boss fights that equal the garbage that is Lady Comstock
>The games narrative keeps it's eye on the ball instead of meandering around doing busy work for people who will totally not back-stab you
An unnecessary sequel made by the B-team is somehow better than the true sequel made by the OG creator think about that

i give up

also you didn't debate me on any of my points, you just brought your own to the table, none of which make sense as they all come from a literal viewpoint that takes everything at face value, and values content, and game as product rather than expression.

>this game gives me real choices on how my in game virtual daughter grows up.

>foregoes a twist is apparently seen as a good thing, even though the previous bioshock and system shock 2 before it had "twists" that made sense in the context of the game and the game's ideas. also there are no morality checks in infinite. the choices have nothing to do with morality and are expressed as illusory, ie choice between bird and cage in a world in which you are the bird in the cage, ie player in a game, entirely meta.

so your argument adds up to two things -

it has more stuff in it
it has stuff i like over stuff i don't like that i just call garbage without explaining why

granted although i've not played it, bioshock 2 is no doubt excellent.

also find it telling that Yea Forums has such a problem with creators

>ken levine
>todd howard

the only one that seems to get off the hook is warren spectre.

it's like the thousands of people on the bandwagon about the prequels that's beenr olling for well over a decade now who all manage to miss the point completely and somehow argue that george lucas is not the true creator of star wars and that somehow all good star wars was made by other people who took it off his hands, and making useless arguments that say empire is the best because it has the best character development, even though star wars was always rooted in mythology, the same true of the prequels which deconstruct mythology.

but no everyone measures it by some kind of standard of what a good film is supposed to be as if there's a formula and simplify everything to fit into their lack of understanding or vision.

Fuck all the bitching about the bonged multiverse theory the game has, back on the topic of Booker and Liz shagging: can ANYONE explain to me why just about all of the stories revolving around that are nothing but angsty shit? I mean what the fuck.

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bird or cage = same thing, bird, free to fly, but only within the confines of the cage, the game, booker who encounters the choice is free to choose, free to do as he pleases, free bird, but only in the game as the player.

it could not be more explicit.

>bonged

correct probably

>multiverse theory

incorrect, the multiverse theory is inspiration, the game just uses it as a metaphorical storytelling device.

the choice is a paradox as the character booker cannot choose to be the bird outwith the cage, the character, emphasis on character is confined to the game, as the avatar of the player.

All of those fancy devices and at the end of the game it still made for a disappointing story. Man. Would it have been better if they didn't cut stuff from the game?

user just took his first psych and phil class.

Not an argument!

lmaooooo

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>incorrect, the multiverse theory is inspiration, the game just uses it as a metaphorical storytelling device.
There is a universe where Elizabeth travels back in time and fucks kid booker.

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well, incest isn't exactly a happy go lucky topic. If Booker and Elizabeth actually went and did the deed they'd still feel wrong about it

what

one of the core principles of the multiverse is that if it can technically happen, somewhere it happened.
somewhere booker, elizabeth, comstock and daisy fizroy are having a foursome. while both versions of booker being aware that elizabeth is their daughter, and both are okay with it.

/ss/ time travel incest

>All of those fancy devices and at the end of the game it still made for a disappointing story.
a good story makes the maximum amount of sense with the least amount of handwavium or deus ex machinery involved. infinite is swamped in both.
and the mechanical game was also a big pile of boredom.

>well, incest isn't exactly a happy go lucky topic.
you must be uninitiated into any form of erotica. infinite isnt some high brow story that it could turn up its nose at a little consensual incest, or even the rapey kind, which is hilarious when you take ken levines objections of a sexualized elizabeth into account, making it obvious that he actually believes he did a good job with her as a distinct character, as well as both story and game.

the excess of the game's style is complimentary to the idea that it's all a veil.

So more frosting than actual cake?

>inb4 food analogy
Blow it out your ass, Howard. It's the fucking Occam's Razor of analogies.

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name a SINGLE form of erotica from any media that genuinely explores incest in a realistic manner beyond "uWu Onii-pai I want your dick" that is not Nabokov's Ada.

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no, the frosting is the cake. if by cake you mean content, value for money or whatever shit then yeah, but the colourful and elaborate world is made to look as material as possible, ie hyperreal game world, world that can only exist as a game world.

Where's the multiverse where Infinite is an actual bioshock game?

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I won't, because I can't and I don't read incest usually. But I would say that the main reason for the lack of 'realistic incest' is because it gets in the way of the eroticism. At least for men.

Who wants to read angst pishposh about how wrong it is and the internal suffering and conflict of the characters when it's taken to the Nth degree? After a certain point it gets VERY distracting and reading fiction is, I should think, a form of escapism.

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>Who wants to read angst pishposh about how wrong it is and the internal suffering and conflict of the characters when it's taken to the Nth degree?
There is literally nothing I want more than to read something like this. The main character fucking his sister and then crying about how wrong it is.
>reading fiction is, I should think, a form of escapism.
You pitiful coward.

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A pitiful coward who knows what he likes and a tryhard blowhard like yourself make strange bedfellows. Get out of my bedroom, you inept fool.

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man, I had the biggest brain fart and couldn't remember where that image was from. how could I forget?

No. There's always a girl, a lighthouse and a city though. Fuck I hated Infinite.

Also, Eleanor was a better daughter than Elizabeth.

infinite bad game

infinite not make me wank

Bioshock 2 sucked. At least Infinite was inspired.

Dude, I've nutted to Liz a good number of times over the years. It made me wank but it's still a terrible game.

Elizabeth is a 10/10 cute, that's all i have to say about this game.

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>skyrim syndrome

i don't get anything from the game so i'll just give it a boob job and fap to it

>bioCOCK
stupid porn name puns like these will literally never get old. they’re so good

biocock inseminate