What went wrong?

The brand's struggled with its identity almost as soon as it was established. You don't make two animated series at the SAME time that are opposite in tone. And you certainly shouldn't have a comic book that takes on an absolutely miserable tone with a nutjob at the wheel writing all these stories about a million other echidnas, you should be aware and maintain your brand's integrity. You don't confuse people about what console to buy so you can even play a new Sonic game in the first place (32X and Saturn debacle). And you don't put desperate gimmicks into the main gameplay that only feel like you're playing a string of mini-games (Were-Hog, Wisps, Generations' lousy "classic" Sonic gameplay, half the shit you do in Sonic Lost Worlds). You don't rush major titles as buggy messes, either. And you give a fuck about the domestic market (Japan don't care about Sonic).

3D. That's what killed the mainline Sonic games. It's the foremost cause of SoJ and SoA clashing, the beginnings of the fanbase splintering, and the dramatic overall quality decrease in SEGA-made Sonic titles.

>SoJ and SoA clashing

Over what, exactly?

2010 + Endless Milking + Most of SEGA's Talent leaving

They moved away from a physics and momentum-based platform in favor of "dude fast lmao"

Sad thing is that Sonic along with Persona/SMT are only things keeping SEGA from going full Konami.

Hmm a proper Sonic/Persona crossover would be nice. A platformer/RPG with the right team would be a fun game to play and wash off the stink of The Dark Brotherhood. But this SEGASammy we're talking about. They'd rather rehash an old titty pachinko game.
The latter promoting Sonic better back in the early '90s

Every game after the genesis era had to reinvent itself instead of iterating on the previous ones.

06 and everything from Lost World onwards.
New characters are cool though.

SoJ against SoA's promotion, or SoA against SoJ's promotion?

they should have taken inspiration from Portal

these

They stopped having to develop games that people would buy entire consoles for.

The main problem comes from trying to catch up with Super Mario 64 after a dearth of origanl Sonic games during the Saturn era.

Sonic lost its way with Sonic 3 (& Knuckles).
It became more story-focused; the pace of the game, of the stages, was often interrupted by cutscenes. The level design became more linear, and stages no longer flowed as smoothly.

Where did I say infinite runner? I would preffer actual momentum based platforming instead of just boost 2 win or wacky antics

You Can't Do More By Playing It Safe
There was a lack of a comprehensive direction in which the IP would be taken into, lack of any specific ideas or ideas that got any proper attention that might do good. In the end whilst there were a few exceptions with the original talents shining through every now and then, everything as usual with other classics became far too predictable and formulaic. Just a lack of innovation and creativity to do more. Constant wasted creative potential. And of course, the milking.

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The first.

Sonic is a inherently flawed by its design being centered around going fast
change my mind

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the series lost its identity as a) the gameplay always changes, and b) sonic team relies on gimmicks (werehog, wisps, etc) and nostalgia-pandering (classic sonic, green hill, chemical plant, etc) to keep shitting out new games
>adventure style dropped for heroes/shadow, then brought back for 06
>adventure style dropped again after 06 for the boost style introduced in unleashed
>storybook games release alongside boost games
>boost style dropped for lost world, then brought back for forces, only with shittier level design
also the franchise's reputation never really recovered after 06 thanks to the werehog, the boom series, and now the paramount film

I agree but only because widescreen wasn't around yet. If you ever have the opportunity to play the classic games with a 16:9 resolution I think you'll have a better time, that extra space on both sides really helps.

The first big clash was over Sonic Xtreme's development (keep in mind this was going to be the first major 3D Sonic game). It was an incredibly troubled development cycle, thanks to SoJ not offering any assistance in SEGA Technical Institute's development of the game (even the support development team from AM1 were denied tools, code, and assistance) yet bursting in later to meddle and ordering developers to change direction of their shit multiple times. The "marketing" war over the Saturn between SoA and SoJ at the time didn't help matters either.

sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_X-treme#Development

>And you certainly shouldn't have a comic book that takes on an absolutely miserable tone with a nutjob at the wheel writing
To be fair, the tone of the early comics was on point for the sonic series, ranging from SatAM-tier with the "NO FUN ALLOWED" kids books and some of the early episodes to some more serious arcs with Bunny and the uncle. The Ken Penders saga happened because Sega's incredible management thought they canceled the series but actually just stopped giving Archie any direction while still giving them automated checks every month. Archie thought the whole time that Sega knew what was going on and were silent because they were fine with the way the series was going.

I apologize if I misunderstood you there.
I've grown to accustomed to the criticisms of the games being incredibly hard because there are obstacles one can run in to, then jumped the gun accordingly.

That's fuckin insane.

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Sonic was doomed for this from the beginning. His design, momentum and platforming, naturall contradict each other and his games have been figting to hit that sweetspot ever since. When he manages to get into this design flowstate where momentum and platforming blend into each other he surpasses every other game of his kind, when it slips away from him again he is reduced to lauging stock again.
No matter what happens, Sonic will never achieve consistebt quality, but he will never die either because his potentional is far too great for that.

Sonic was never consistently good and never consistently bad as a franchise.

Just hire Platinum Games to make a Sonic game at this point. Worked pretty well with Square Enix with Nier.

The Modern Sonic Designs looking so weird from the front

cute

Recent new characters have been really disappointing though like Infinite and Zavok.

>press down on the d-pad
>now immune to most forms of damage
Sonic's biggest issue is that it didn't teach you that rolling into a ball was something you should do in almost every situation.

First explain how going fast is flawed design

Sonic adventure and everything afterwards.

Sonic 1 does teach you this but most people only care about 2 which runs off the assumption you've played 1

>to some more serious arcs with Bunny and the uncle.
user that was written in like 2010.

Also you're full of it, Sega just didn't give a shit again until around the late 00s when the comic got a decent reputation back. They shipped Archie a (Japanese) copy of SA1 as reference material and gave them the Sonic X license.

More like 2 is easy enough that you can brute force your way through it without learning how good rolling is
That's classic sonic's central problem, I feel. It doesn't punish you enough, so you go around thinking your idiotic way of playing is the right one.

the all star racing games are great and ironically sonic had a better game than mario in 2017, which might be a first.

Those are likely just miracles in a cesspool though unfortunately

Pretty much. You can't complete Marble Zone unless you roll. Like, it's actually impossible, there's that one gap you can't clear any other way. The game demands you learn to progress, so people hate it. CD just wags its finger and sends you back a bit, so people dislike it as well, just less so.
3K just slows you down, so it's well regarded.
2 is piss easy to brute force aside from Metropolis/Wing Fortress/The Final Boss, so casuals love it.

They're all guilty to a degree, though 1 definitely punishes you the hardest. There are several enemies that can't be killed in any sane way except for rolling. Especially caterkillers, seeing them explode into bouncing crap out to kill you is a good sign you did something wrong

At least for the OG games, Sonic is a physics centric platformer that rewards high level play and stage knowledge. You do good, and your reward is getting to go fast. They're games made for speedrunning, essentially.

But absolutely nothing wrong with taking it slow sometimes, they're still fun that way. The multipath levels are super fun to explore. Especially as Tails and Nipples.

Lack of identity in the current era.
Splitting him up into different "versions" was a mistake, even if Mania was the best Sonic game made in forever.

At least during the 2000's adventure era he was (fairly) consistent with his identity. There were the advance games, Sonic X, etc to tie his image together nicely. 06 fucked up Sonic far more than just being a mediocre game. As a brand, Sonic is a fucking mess now.
They need to pick one identity for him and stick to it.

To be fair, games actually expected you to read the manual back then, something people today don't like doing. Though I don't think even the manual told the player about how momentum works.

I know most if not all fanbases suck, but how did the sonic fanbase become the way it is?

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You know the drill fellas

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shadman's sonic disgusts me to no end. all the features he highlights are something you would find in a scene highschool girl. fucking pedophile.

Sanic's (intentionally) really easy to draw thus all the bad fanart

Ok

SMB1 is unironically the best Sonic game, sprinting through it is a ton of fun

Will I ever get a gf that's into gentle femdom?

Fuck, user..

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SEGA's infighting. If the company wasn't so hellbent on fucking over their branches out of spite, the Dreamcast and Saturn could have flourished. Mismanagement is the root of the problem, Sonic's bad games are only the symptom.

FUCKING THIS
SA2 and Heroes were examples of iterative design and they were improvements on one another.
What they needed to do from heroes was:
>tone down the acceleration from a stand still and have it ramp up when he's at a sprint.
>fix the fucking rail switching.
>Implement branching paths in their stages
>cut the levels from the marathon dark team stages are or just cut them in half and call the part the hero team doesn't get act 2.

Everything.
No exceptions.

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Shifts in workers.
Takashii is out of touch in his "two worlds, modern and classic cant mix, except when we force it in the mainline games" approach.
SEGA allowing PR to cohort with known Sonic haters.

Then theres, of course, the gameplay issues. You had something very good, but flawed in the SA2 approach. It's not economically feasible to keep with the boost approach. Why not refine SA2 gameplay? You tried with 06, even the gameplay there wasn't entirely bad.

Then there's the shift in tone. Sonic fans are already divided amongst themselves from modern, adventure, to classic and now you went ahead and tried to introduce a new look in Boom? and then the classic sonic from the games isnt even sonic anymore but sonic from another dimension? and THEN when Boom failed you try to integrate the characterizations into modern but fail to realize people dont want corny, cringy dialogue.

They want high-stakes, and serious Sonic. You know? When Sonic had a bit of continuation, when they referenced past endeavors, and when they all weren't either assholes or idiots. Because that's pretty much what each and every character boils down to now. Honestly, SONIC was at his/its best when it was all genuine.

Anyone who says otherwise simply does not know what they are talking about.

>Heroes

This, basically.

furfags

Actually yeah, if we want to trace it all the way back to this dumb motherfucker then it'd be correct

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Sonic currently reminds me of that guy who got bullied so much that every time he gets bullied he de-volves into self-deprecating humor, and makes fun of himself alongside the bullies in order to gain their favor, but it just makes the bullies slightly uncomfortable, willing to go away for a small bit, but always wanting to come back for more. It's a shame cause I really liked Unleashed Sonic. He was a real cool dude there.

Don't forget Bernard "Five-Star Policy" Stolar.

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SA1 was fine

SA2 was decisive and development suggests that Tails, Rouge, and Shadow were added late in development

Heroes was an attempt to make the series open to non sonic fans after the sega consoles died

Sonic 06 however started the "sonic was never good" meme and turned it into a laughing stock

>decisive
i meant divisive

He was the Jannetty to Mario

Sega basically cannot sit down and think of a solid idea to work with, attempting to juggle a 90's mascot platformer with modern concessions and missing the mark repeatedly. Sonic Team's talent all left ages ago, and are misguided fools on a consistent basis. Budgets are shit, deadlines are tight, and somehow Sega doesn't realize they keep repeating the same exact mistakes in different ways over and over and over.

Will I ever have a gf which is not a total fucking psycho?

Well, since the first game, Sonic games mostly relied on style, which in a way is okay, because that's what sold the Genesis and showed off its 16-bit break through as a home console. Now when you get down to the controls and gameplay of genesis Sonic, it's actually kind of awkward, not just for me, for everyone, Green Hill Zone was easy and you can run through sure, but once it actually comes to platforming and skill, the game is no longer fun, that's why Labyrinth Zone sucks so much, the platforming segments just suck, on top of this, that whole gimmick of Sonic being able to run fast has to be balanced, so he walks around sluggish in segments where you're not just running through loops. That's another problem, some of the funnest parts of Sonic, is when you're not really doing anything, running through loops and grind rails is fun for the first few times, but there's not really much gameplay to it.

>not just for me, for everyone
git gud

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Boostshit and different movement happened.

They should turn Sonic into a pure 90's nostalgia icon. Bring back the classic design, take away all of the awful voice acting and plots, and just make a bunch of Mania quality throwbacks. Go heavy on 90's style game commercials and magazine pinup ads like the old game informer or nintendo power ones. Fuck it'd be great

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It's really hard for me to understand how SEGA dont seem to want to learn from past mistakes.

I remember hearing TSR was supposed to release last December. I imagine to make it as a Christmas release, but to want to push a game out when apparently it needed 5 months worth of work still before hitting shelves? That just screams money-making over quality. They know its Sonic, they know it'll sell, but they almost weren't willing to give it any effort.

I imagine someone from the competent Sumo stepped in and pleaded with them to give them more time.

Will Sonic Team ever make an undeniably good Sonic game?

Yes I know there's a skill and tech curb for bad out dated games, it can be fun to watch or even do some of these things, but that doesn't exactly make the game better.

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Inversely, why are Sonic threads so good?

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>didn't spindash off the crushers at the end for max swag
Pathetic

When you don't have waifuposting or shitposting, like the guy that kept trying to make Mania out to be the worst game in the series ever with someone's youtube review that doesn't say that at all, a lot of people actually know their shit and debate it without resorting to calling eachother niggers.

>462247827
No more for (You)

Because Sonic games are fun to talk about, they're mostly bad but the children who grew up with them don't wanna come to terms that they kinda suck

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Yea Forums loves Sonic
they actually dont want to see him fail

Sonic friends have been to hell and back multiple times so they're just chilled out

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The only thing I find awkward with the controls is sometimes you lose your forward momentum when you jump and clip the corner of a wall and that's more of a collision thing.
Otherwise I dunno what you're talking about Sonic controls smooth as butter and handles platforming just fine. He's very sensitive to every input.

The Minecraft Effect

BASED

This list is -objectively- bad

>this list

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You didn't go for the head. Always go for the head.

the werehog is a dumb idea and distracts from everything

Sonic's never had a core philosophy outside of "go fast" and "current era attitude" leading to the franchise being myriad things to myriad people and cults of personality forming around what they feel it SHOULD be. They also want to keep expanding the world/cast but then do dick all with it or worse, retcon it arbitrarily.

Did Forces do well? Please tell me it didn't

There's not much you can do with Sonic, giving him a personality worked great back in the day for marketing and the games were decent too it eventually fucked Sonic over. You can make any kind of Mario game because he's just a blank canvas and as long as the game is good nobody will question why Mario is now Xcom but with Sonic you have to add the gotta go fast to everything and you can't really do much more with him and if you try something different, like the Unleashed combat, people will bitch that it's not gotta go fast shit. Either SEGA or Sonic Team is still obsessed with competing with Mario so they try to make a completely different game everytime, just like Mario, instead of improving what they already had on the previous one. Also Sonic Team is fucking incompetent.
They should just kill Sonic at this point.

Literally only created to compete with mario but the team had zero interest or heart in it.

Sonic was never good and has only been kept alive by autists. His design was always cringe, a blue naked "hedgehog" with shoes and a single eye with two pupils. His personalty was always cringe. He has an evil red and black copypaste clone that shoots guns. Just autismbait.

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I dunno about "well" but it made a profit if that's what you're asking

SoA was never given the original Japanese backstory so they crazy shit up like Sonic living on Mobius instead of Earth and begin the gradual downward spiral

>Because Sonic games are fun to talk about
This piece is definitely true.
Sonic games are REALLY fun to examine and pick apart once your really learn their mechanics, especially because even the good ones are flawed in interesting ways. Sonic games really do try to experiment and do new things, so there's rarely a dull moment with them. There's reason people still play and talk about Sonic '06.

The franchise needs an visionary that knows what he's doing like Valve once had

Considering Sega abandoned the game after release despite promising ongoing support and a plethora of dlcs for it, I'm going guess it flopped or went below their expectations.

At least Tamers12345 is keeping sonic kino going

Geez if SoA and SoJ that each other's throats, why not just split?

462250209
>gaslighting this hard

good developers keep leaving Sega to work for nintendo

who is that
some clickbait SFM channel that got popular for no reason like the crappy FNAF SFM channels?

The most masterful of storytellers. Bardonic for life bitch

>gul-dan-everything.gif

You grew up fag

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watch me roll an 8.

06 happened

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HE KEEPS DOING IT AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN

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Sega went Third party.

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>His design was always cringe, a blue naked "hedgehog" with shoes and a single eye with two pupils.
So Mickey?

I scratch my head that people still care about sonic in 2019 when, as far as I'm concerned, good content stopped coming out for him in the 90's

Everything after Sonic Adventure 2. After that it's cringefest until Mania came and returned some of that actual magic.

>Enjoyed the Advance games, Rush Adventure and Mania

Hmm...

>He doesn't like Sonic Heroes

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>blue arms poster talking shit to anyone

They should have taken the themes and tone of the opening of Unleashed and used that as a reference on how to take the IP in a new direction
instead they went full sperg and we ended up with boom and forces

Big's Rigs and Figs

Boomer fags who only think the shitty classic games are good.

Modern shitters who won't admit that boost is awful.

Adventure was peak Sonic but even it could have used some more work.

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Everything that is designed from the ground up to making money will one day break down when it needs to pass the test of time and soul.

All shit

reminder sonic unleashed on the Wii is actually a fine and fun game.

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No

>classic games are shitty but the flawed 3D interpretation of their gameplay is good
I'll never understand this position. Adventure was trying to be like the Genesis games, did you just not notice or something?

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Yeah, I did notice. It was better.

god modern sonic looks so weird from the front

why not?
it fixes eggmanland, has a stable framerate and loading times, the werehog sections are fun to play, the boost makes more sense as uses since you aren't supposed to just spam it, the S ranks are more lenient and you know exactly what you need to do to get them, the optionals are optional and still are fun to get

in comparison to the 360/PS3 version, the Wii port is actually really good in comparion, the only flaws I see is the shitty hub screens and the lack of some stages. I'd say sonic unleashed on the 360/PS3 is a 4/10 while on the Wii it's a 7/10

How so? You're not one of those shitters who thinks it's impossible to react to things in 2D are you?

The level design in 2d is boring. Everything looks the same. I like being able to see ahead and see actual landmarks. 3d is inherently more fun than 2d. Adventure games had soul.

The fact that literally the only thing people have to look forward to with this series is fan created content is already enough to describe the series current state

>Multiple paths boring, gimme linear setpieces please
Yikes dude

Sonic Team has ADHD, they put in too much stuff and the entire product suffers from it. This was already a thing back in the Mega Drive era, but they were kept in check by hardware limitations so it didn't cause too many issues. Shadow the Hedgehog is where this really kicks in, with it's gorrilion plotlines, missions, weapons and vehicles.

In Sonic 06, it just becomes grotesque, Blaze is a perfectly playable character that might as well have her own game, but you can only play her for a few minutes. Meanwhile, the entire game is riddled with bugs and a crappy plot line and such. Then we have Unleashed, beautifull game with perfect tone and one of the greatest OST's video games have ever seen. Also, it's so unoptimized that it runs on 3 FPS and even the Xbox One X can't run Jungle Joyride at 30 FPS. What do we have instead? A crappy rating system where you have to do QTE's in the Werehog stages to get S-Ranks. A buttload of scattered secrets, 20k Hotdog missions, horrible day level controls and a boring ass Eggman Land/Dark Gaia fight that only feels like an afterthought. Thing is, each guy who worked on a hotdog mission could have done hardware optimization instead. Each guy who did a QTE could have worked on getting the kinks out of Sonics drift instead. Imagine how many recources they could have freed up if they would have used the Ranking/Medal system from the Wii verision? Lets not even talk about the level system.

Hell, just look at the Wii verison, which has things such as a stable framerate or day stages that are actually both fun to play and have a boost system that is well-balanced. Where the night stages don't drag out for 40 minutes but are broken into smaller parts and where the ranks are based off things that are actually fun to do like going fast or beating the shit out your enemies. Sure, it lacks a lot of the magic that makes the 360 version special, but it's also objectivly the better-made game.

the real answer is that they tried 3D too early when the hardware wasn't capable enough to deliver what they wanted, specially with sonic adventure. this meant that the dev team just tried to rely on gimmicks, market appeal and retarded dumb fucking stories in order to sell which only worked because of dumb kids.

when they finally realized what they had to do around sonic unleashed/generations, the chain of command in the dev team was beyond fucked at this point and SEGA didn't give a shit

>Then we have Unleashed, beautiful game with perfect tone and one of the greatest OST's video games have ever seen.
I always thought of comparing it to selective moments from Star Trek and Half-Life, felt like a mix of the two given the tone. Of course, we can always all narrow down that whole game to it's brilliant Opening which is probably the main reason people like the game for, ignoring some of the more corny stuff the werehog, gaia, the Earth it's self, etc.

>this was 12 years ago

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SOUL

>ywn never see a remake of TNG's "The Defector" with Sonic characters instead in their own world, running outside on the hull of the starship as disruptor fire rains down on the shield with blindingly bright bursts of light as you try and make your way back inside
>ywn see Tomalok replaced by Pollock's Robotnik as he demands the return of Shadow who replaced Djerrok
>ywn Knuckles in Worf's place and Tails in Geordi's place in the scene either
>ywn go deaf from the sound of the shield impacts
Where in the world are the SFM animators when you need them?

Prototype Windy Valley is better than anything 2d could possibly give.

unironically this
it's fucking fucked big time mate

>SFM animators
hello

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Too bad it's a test level and the final version is, you guessed it, more linear setpieces

The porn is good.
That's all that matters.

I unironically prefer night stages over day stages, they are still decently fast but they offer much more control. Also, the main strenght of this game is the setting and the Werehog is just much better at exploring.

The 8 bit sonic games aren’t that bad

shut up wesley

Yeah, but Prototype Windy Valley is what Adventure games COULD be. While 2d games can only ever be what we already got. We already hit peak 2d. 3d "can be" much better than peak 2d.

>sonic porn is good
t. furfag

>that
>SFM

user's whole argument was Adventure has better level design which is fucking laughable.
Sure the potential for something great was always there, but I don't give points for what could've been.

No, my original argument was that Adventure games are better than 2d, which they are. Eve nthough they're more linear they're also much better looking and the landmarks are easy to see and you can actually see ahead.

I also think the Adventure gameplay design has more potential than what has been reached so far.

there's no way that lighting is in Source

>2019
>not following several furry artists on Twitter

Get a load of this normie.

But Sonic was never good

Sega pulled out of console market and console-pushing exclusive was no longer needed.

Damn, 2010 killed fucking everything, didn't it?

Early comic was more like AoStH, with some cool issues like mecha-sonic and ended with melodramma that os endgame.

Localisation diffrences and saturn having no mainline sonic game.

unironically, it's because of ken penders and whoever was making the cartoons.

>Kishimoto
add him too

SEGA and Adventure 1 and 2.

Based

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neither of them were as bad as soj.

Shadow

SEGA were pleased with its sales in their financial reports and based on the trophy leak awhile back, it looks like Forces sold more than Mania on PS4.

Underperformed would be the word

Weenie

SEGA specifically said it “performed strongly” so it did well in their eyes.

The big question is what were their expectations.

Everyone left Sonic Team.

>The big question is what were their expectations.
Really low I bet. Probably to appease or convince shareholder that they're doing fine.

Adventure is shit.

youtube.com/watch?v=9cG3ZWCvr38

Sonic Adventure is modern Sonic, you wooden-toothed pussyphobe.

Sonic Adventure came out in 1998.
1998.
It belongs to the same century as Teddy Roosevelt's presidency.

Big the cat and omochao being playable on team sonic racing instead of cream the rabbit and storm the albatross.

The auto scrolling segment on the iron fortress level sonic forces.

Cream the rabbit appearing in less games.

>Every Virtua Fighter game is good
>fluke
user.....

What went wrong. Cream the rabbit, blaze the cat, and shadow the hedgehog not being playable on sonic mania.

Chaos zero not being playable on team sonic racing.

The gamecube sonic games are not available on nintendo switch.

Liking sonic mania more than sonic forces is like preferring let's go pikachu and eevee over pokemon sun and moon.

Team sonic racing dlc will be wasted on stupid characters like charmy bee, orbot, and cubot.

No Tangle
No buy

No it isnt. The tone, atmosphere, and design of Sonic Adventure 1 to Unleashed is vastly different to Colors to Forces.

Ryu GA gotoku is also keeping then afloat wrangled tard

Sammy acquired Sega, and then Sega became shit. Seriously, look at Sega's output from before October 2004 (when the acquisition happened) to now. Even after the Dreamcast died, they still made Panzer Dragoon Orta, JSRF, Outrun 2, and a shit ton of ports before then.

I still think Sega has at least gotten better under Sammy post-2015, shame about sonic Team though.

>What went wrong?
Nostalgiafags refusing to let the series grow and SEGA listening to them.

ken fucking penders. you could trace everything bad about the sonic franchise back to him

You're a fucking hedgehog
That much should be obvious

I like that Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 had a clear continuity.

What do you guys think of project hero?

youtube.com/watch?v=wKdo5f5X_qc

silence zoomer

Has so much potential, much more so than the usual Sonic fangames people gush over. It looks so responsive man

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Hedgehogs aren't native to the Americas

My grand theory (that I've never seen anyone else explicitly take up, but people intuitively feel) is that the comic - the largest, and only consistent, source of the story - is what ffed the fandom up.

After Ken Penders takes over, it is a nightmare what the comic becomes, being the primordial fuel of early 00's furry comics, and I think people simply miss this nowadays because even most Sonic fans don't read the comics.

SoA and SoJ fucking hate each other

You furfags may have the upper hand temporarily in the internet zeitgeist, but you will still always be furfags, and your time will come.

Attached: glasses down, Jake.png (242x258, 52K)

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