Games with very in-depth world building?

pic related had clear effort put into it
im not kidding

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Morrowind

-strained buzzing and whirring as his motorized chair struggles to remain functional- "Ah, ha ha, *munch, munch* ol' J.R.R., didn't, ah, see you come in! -burp- No please, please, [smack] sit down, sit down, there' something we, (pant) need to talk about. *farts* Heavens excuse me, oh ho! Well getting down to 'brass tacks' - or brass tax, I might say SNORT! - yes, well I was sitting, counting the money coming in from, slurp, my show - terribly taxing ah yes? - when the thought occurred me, watching that money from my award-winning show... [belch] from my, (siiippp) award, award, awar... sorry, I lost my breath, award-winning books, that I [chews] that I can't seem to recall you mentioning [more chewing] anything about Gondor's *blows nose* taxation policy. Surely I must have -releases one long wet smelly fart - missed it while glancing through the pages (cough). You did [scratches ballsack] say something about it, right? Sales tax? (sweats) Value-added tax? *licks lips* Don't just sta - oh my my heart - stand there my man, out with it! Surely the, the thought has crossed your mind?! -chuckles until accidental urination-"

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Every writer in the fantasy genre is OBSESSED with tolkien. They all have a gigantic (deserved) inferiority complex.

For fantasy writers, it's a living. They just want to make books and get by. For Tolkien it was his entire life. He had made several new languages and fleshed out Middle Earth as a hobby long before he whimsied to write a book in it.

>is too focused on fantasy and not enough on the real

That's like your opinion man

Total War:Warhammer :^)

>Every writer in the fantasy genre is OBSESSED with tolkien.

Especially the atheist ones I've noticed.

well yeah. grrm isn't saying everyone has to be like him. him stating his opinion is not going to make lotr-styled fantasy stories disappear.

I like both tolkien and ASOIAF

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You sound OBSESSED with atheists.

Pls don't

Dragon Quest. World building done correctly through interaction and letting the player find them. Unlike something like Elder Scrolls or Final Fantasy.

I actually liked that game a lot and the story behind its development is pretty crazy.

Tolkien is to creative literary genius what Martin is to hack pulp idiocy. They both so far surpass anyone else in their field that they will be remembered 1,000 years from now as a kind of yin and yang of fantasy, a Manichaen duality of speculative letters. For every sublime, luminous beauty that Tolkien has gifted the world, Martin has cursed us with a tedious, banal ugliness. It is unfair to compare the two directly on any one point, because Martin is in every way the anti-Tolkien, patently sterile, parasitical, and inferior, but so much so that he becomes a monument in his own right, and counterbalances Tolkien. Could one exist without the other Tolkien obviously could. But it is only by the contrast that Martin offers that we can truly appreciate the full depths and heights of Tolkien. Our understanding of Tolkien would be incomplete if Martin had never set pen to page. It is through only the abject failure and futility of Martin that we can approach an apprehension of the true scope and scale of Tolkien's hitherto inconceivable greatness. Perhaps this is what Tolkien had in mind when he wrote about the Music of the Ainur. If Tolkien is a subcreator in the image of Eru, truly Martin is like unto Melkor. It is only reflected in the awfulness of the one that we can fully see the goodness of the other.

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>It shows his fundamental misunderstanding of Tolkien's work

This coming from the camp that doesn't even realize LOTR was part of Tolkein language dissertation and is a weak example of story telling even within the realm of fantasy.

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>fantasy and not enough on the real
Do Kafka or Dostoevsky talk about their character's shopping lists?
The medieval tales which he based his stories did not talk shit about tax policies, I am sure that people who lived in the middle ages know whether to mention tax policies in a medieval story or not.

lol I am an atheist, I was just pointing out a lot of atheist writers are obsessed with Tolkien. Nothing I said is wrong.

Redpill me on these last chapters why is this season being considered shit?
My friends keep telling me how amazing it is.

i don't remember any tax policy in asoiaf either. many long-winded descriptions of food though. i prefer the food to taxes.

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She has a nice body there, like any non-obese 19 year old woman would. But her face is full gremlin tier. Peak British genes.

What does Aragorn's tax policy have to do with the story of bringing a ring to a volcano?

Martin is such a retarded hack holy shit. He actually thinks his worldbuilding and writing is in-depth? It's literal pulp fiction.

>Dostoevsky talk about their character's shopping lists?
Honestly wouldn't surprise me

The show went to shit as soon as they ran out of books to base it on. Say what you will about GRRM's writing but D&D are literally worse than grade schoolers

The entire show is pretty shit writing, it just has a few interesting characters that keep you watching. This season is no dumber than any other, it's a soap opera with gore.

this fucking slag

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I mean Bethesda has raped tge ES lore but Morrowind has one of tge greatest and most unique worlds put to vidya.
Say what you want about the gameplay, that's mostly subjective. But the game world, atmosphere and lore is incredible.

i loved it. it was too easy but it played pretty good and everything felt fun. i dont know the specifics, but i think the story was that curt shillings studio got subsidized in some way and it was a big boondoggle and it all went belly-up for no reason other than debt
the game was really nice to play, and to my point, they clearly gave a fuck about world-building. like a decade later i still know about "the fae" and all that shit. they genuinely did a great job

They hired some fantasy novelist for it

if you enjoy shit like Transformers and series/films devoid of reason and logic, don't care about story, characters, continuity or writing, if thinking makes your head hurt then this Season is fantastic. i don't like GMMR and his work but they clearly raped his work to oblivion.

1) That part in the Ring Des Nibelung where Wotan and Siegfried sing their tax policies
What was Wagner thinking?

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because your friends are braindead normie consumerist faggots who don't have enough sentience to form coherent opinions and thoughts
>GAME OF THRONES POPULAR
>WATCH GAME OF THRONES
>GOOD SHOW IS GOOD
>I LIKE GOOD SHOW

didnt know that. makes sense. it was really done well, so hats off to whoever that was

Her friends look better and I'm assuming they have non-goblin faces

the Drizzt guy wrote the lore, and game director worked on Morrowind so it makes sense for it to be above average

Yea Forumspilled

Tolkien made Mythological retellings
This guy is making scat porn.

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Halo and Elder Scrolls probably have the most lore of any vidya franchises

>both xibalba and mictlan are offshoots of atlantis

is atlantis also mesoamerican themed in this?

also

>falling for the "aztecs and maya are the oinly mesoamerican civilizations" meme

The acting, music, and cinematography are great. The writing can be frustrating.

Every NPC in Ultima VII has a Name, a Job and a Bye. You can follow them to work and then follow them home and then murder them and be chastised by Iolo. There's an in-game explanation for why the doors are conveniently placed to work with the fixed perspective. Read this and tell me they weren't some mighty cool dudes - gallery.ultimacodex.com/ultima-7-design-documents-conversation-style-guide/

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"Lord of the Rings wasn't dark and grim enough. And didn't spend enough time on long tanents describing every little detail." -Martin

Funny because most people complain about Tolkien being too long winded and spending too much time on small cultural/language/setting details.

Calling ASOIAF pulp is a literal insult to pulp, Conan the Barbarian was pulp and Robert E Howard was not only far better a writer than Martin but would probably beat the shit out of him too in real life.

pale skinned, red haired giant mesoamerican faction when

THE MORE SHE SHAT, THE THIRSTIER SHE GOT

atlantis is straight up the deep ones from lovecraft, a bunch of them went into mictlan and got worshipped as rain gods or something

dude

realism in fantasy

So is this the disguised Yea Forums thread or the disguised Yea Forums thread?

Bashing popular thing is fun. Being a contrarian and rephrasing the same talking points is fun. Being smug is fun. It's all in good fun.

The GoT audio books are wonderful. It's such a shame that the ancient narrator passed before he could finish the series. It was like having grandpa read to you while you drove or exercised.

>Elder Scrolls probably have the most lore of any vidya franchises
But almost all of it is just slightly tweaked concepts taken from other franchises. Can it really be considered original? Something like Suikoden or Utawarerumono or Valkyria Chronicles is better than Elder Scrolls, just because they do something unique.

GRRM gets way too much shit mostly cause his works gained popularity.
If he was unfanboyed by normies people would appreciate his stories for the simple political take on fantasty that they are.

Tolkien is pretty great but what he did is gave birth to the fantasy genre as we know it. He simply expanded on the childrens stories he told his family. His works are also pulpy just really fucking good, groundbreaking and innovative.
GRM is just expansive fantasy realism. He didn't really innovate he just got hugely popular.

Conan isn't pulp, it didn't depict anything perverse or gross ever. Just typical "antihero saves hot women from evil wizards" type stuff.

That's not a real quote.

My dad can beat up your dad.

Yes.

so season 8 will suddenly be liked on Yea Forums now seeing how it's hated even by normies?

>he wants to hear an old man read to him about cocks and shit

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No shit. I don't have the exact quote (it's a long interview). But he said basically that Tolkien wasn't dark and realistic enough. And that he wanted to focus more on the little things that made the world work. Basically, the Elder Scrolls approach to storytelling, which not everyone likes.

People hate GoT because it's objectively really badly written garbage fiction for perverts, not because it's popular. It's only popular among tasteless apes.

i guess youre not wrong, but no one even said anything.

Hemingway went to painstaking detail in order to describe all the different Spanish accents and dialects, the details of the dishes they ate and the material on their clothing.

Focusing on things like tax policy, crops and other trivial bits may seem useless but it can make fantasy feel like reality.

Wrong. His writing is terrible. He would have never become famous if the two kikes hadn't decided to make a high budget TV show about that trash.

*I dont get what people are being butthurt over.
It's normal jump off point to create original shit. STALKER is literally "roadside picnic didn't have enough hardbass and shooty looty"

They're marked as offshoots because as R'lyeh drove Atlantians out of the sea, they usurped Mictlan's previous regime and reintroduced blood magic (so Late Age Mictlan is not-Aztecs ruled by Atlantians). The same happened in caves of Xibalba, inhabited by bat-people zotz.

There's also a third mesoamerican nation, Nazca. Besides, there's only a hundred or so nations in the game.

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>it doesn't spend a whole lot of time worrying about the common people

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I feel like you and grrm are just huge faggots who completely missed the point.
Grrm writes genre fiction. Best-seller bait. Glorified soap operas in literature form.

Tolkien's works were never meant to be read that way. The style is completely different from a genre fiction novel, more similar to epics of old than to novels. They read like the Bible, a retelling of Gilgamesh, or the Iliad, etc. That's the fucking point. To read like old legends. That's what LOTR was always supposed to emulate. Not this cheap consumerist bullshit.

It's pulp because it was literally published in pulp magazines in the 30's

>He simply expanded on the childrens stories he told his family.
You're confusing Tolkien with Baum or Lewis. Tolkien was very private and didn't tell his family most of his stories. He barely told his writing group about them, mostly only sharing them with Lewis. Then it took him decades to build up the courage to publish them.

He also wrote a lot of it before his children were born.

>LOTR doesn't have enough realism!
>writes a series with no linguistic differences between huge swaths of land, only 3 tongues shown overall
What did he mean by this?

It'll swing around just like most things that are popular. People will find reasons to defend it and it will be considered an overlooked gem in a year or two.

I mean the acting, cgi, cinematography, and music all have their merits. It's still going to be a loved series overall. People on reddit are having fun bashing the writing. It's shockingly similar to Yea Forums on there. It's interesting to see as an outsider to the platform.

>LotR
>weak example of story telling even within the realm of fantasy
>is the worlds second most sold book in human history after the Bible, despite Bible existing for 2000 years and LotR for 100
>LotR is seen as the greatest fantasy fiction ever written and will be remembered hundreds of years from now
>No one will know what GoT is who Martin is 100 years from now

It aint that bad. I've read all the books and it was easy reading. Not all books are meant to be literally classicks it was just realism focused political strife in fantasy world.
Go get buttblasted why jamie oliver cookbooks have no plot or something

what? the series was already extremely popular (for a book series) before it ever reached TV. that's WHY it was made into a show.

Weird, I read in the hobbit foreword how it was based on the stories he told his kids and when kids kept asking for more he expanded it into a book,.

>is the worlds second most sold book in human history after the Bible, despite Bible existing for 2000 years and LotR for 100
Pretty sure the Koran, Shakespeare's Folio and a lot of others sold more.

Aragorn was the King and he would've had subordinates concerned with day-to-day operation of mundane activites like commerce and farming. His role was martial--to lead the army of Gondor--and diplomatic fostering ties between Gondor and Rohan and the completely unexplored other societies Tolkein hinted at but never showed.
anyway taking advice from a fat boomer whose career plan is to keep milking his GoT novels is dumb. Tolkein wanted to tell stories AND HE TOLD THEM, this guy wants to keep the gravy train running.

Yup sure got me. The entire series is a never ending stream of scat porn. Who wouldn't see the comedy in grandpa reading that too you?

You say this on a site for perverts that complains about the censorship of tiddies.

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user YOU CANT POSSIBLY LIKE BOTH!

I have never heard a normie say any show or film is bad.
They just unequivocally accept ever television show and film they watch.
They have no idea how to critique or dislike someone's work. They only know how to consume.

I genuinely believe this is the true path to happiness, but we are incapable of reaching it. Only mindless normie consumers can ever achieve true happiness.

Isn't it fun to see how retarded people can be about these things?

Who wrote he forward? There's a lot of misinformed people. When I bought the LotR books, they had one of the people who worked on the movies write the forward. And it was nothing but second hand generalizations.

LOTR has Gollum, GOT has Maisie Williams.

>muh complex allegory
>muh flowery prose
>muh new mythology
>muh elves and orcs

It's sill fantasy fiction you dumb cunt, stop putting it on a pedestal.

Now THIS is bait.
Have a (you).

The books are similar to the shows writing, just Martin describing grotesque and perverse scenes for the shock factor. He's a terrible writer and has never produced any good literacy.
No it wasn't. Literally no one outside of those who happened to have read the books knew about the series when they were just books. You never heard anyone mention them, it was very fringe, and it got adapted not because of popularity but because those two Jews directing and writing the TV show recognized that it's the kind of degeneracy perversion they want to push on television.

>uses sales numbers to quantify quality
well i guess harry potter is one of humanities greatest achievements

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me on the left

What a hack. There are people who legitimately look up to this fat idiot as a good writer. Kek, he's the new JK Rowling.

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I've never heard anything of the sort about Shakespeares works exceeding LotR in sales, sounds far fetched. As for the Koran, most copies are not sold but given for free so it can't have nearly as high sales numbers as the Bible. Literally even the poorest 3rd worlders have Korans in their households because the Mosques and school systems hand them away to everyone.

I'm sorry, I don't see a single hint of an argument in your autistic screech of a post.

Not that I was expecting an intelligent reply from a mindless ape consumerist like yourself.

It's not as bad as you describe.
It's not great literacy
It's not literature classic
It is not groundbreaking like LOTR but it will be influential
But it is a good read. It's like marvel movies: just plain good to watch but nothing special

Stick to Engels and Marx you byzantine cunt

Even worse, there are people who legitimately look up to JK Rowling as a good writer.

Whatever the media hypes, you should avoid it. And seek out the exact opposite.

The quote isn't real you fucking mongoloid

have sex

>hurr durr look at me being contrarian its cool

lmao

Id rather take R.R martin any day than this cow that writes pieces of trash and calls herself a writer

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Why can't you fags stay on Yea Forums, they probably have this shit thread every single fucking day

witcher 3
vtmb
papers please
stalker

if this isn't fake life has become satire at this point

it was fringe only in the way that the entire speculative fiction scene is fringe. no, you weren't going to talk about a clash of kings with your nana but if someone ever gave you an indication they might read books with dragons and shit, they probably knew what a song of ice and fire was.

>dude remember being 14

Fuck getting every TV show spoiled for me weeks in advance

>it doesn't spend a whole lot of time worrying about the common people of its world
Almost every main character in GoT is a lord. Saying that it focuses on the common people is just retarded

Kek, this.
I truly believe that GoT is the anti LOTR.
LOTR stands for beauty and all the good in the world.
GoT exists only to drag everything that is good through the mud and pervert all semblance of beauty. Grrm's characters are all ugly and unlikable because grrm is a morbidly obese hedonist with no morals or beliefs of his own. So he is unable to create something beautiful or good, such as a character that's actually likeable. He is a soulless and depraved bug man, and a window into the current state of society.

If only they canceled the show after season 1

1. Sopranos
2. The Wire
3. Boardwalk Empire
4. Deadwood
5. Game of Thrones
6. True Detective
7. True Blood

>your brain on Yea Forums

>As for the Koran, most copies are not sold but given for free so it can't have nearly as high sales numbers as the Bible.
Millions of Bibles are given away as well. There's entire denominations who go around giving bibles away. But they still count as sales, because the people giving them away had a publisher print the bibles, which they paid for. The same happens with the Koran.

Also, most Korans are not given away. The people in those poor countries are told to buy their own. And their religion requires them to have it. Many people also buy a Koran just to have in their house, even if they're not Islamic themselves. Because not having one will set an extremist off to get you arrested or killed.

Anyway, a quick search also shows that Don Quixote and Tale of Two Cities sold more than Lord of the Rings.

>all manner of sex

youtu.be/7IwYakbxmxo

have sex

Only the truly delicate would get triggered by this.

All well and good but it's a pitfall that even Martin does a bad job at avoiding.
I think Crime and Punishment does start with the character going to the store
After some 300 years of being conquered chances are you're going to have a standard language

Rowling obviously never wrote any of the HP books. She's just a nice figurehead for a brand.

>the Sopranos

get the fuck outta here

I bet you also listen to reviewers and get your news from TV.

world building for the sake of worldbuilding is stupid.
adding stupid details like tax policies, or environmental regulations means nothing if it doesn't end up serving as an explanation for the way things occur or appear in a story.
RPGs tend to be the most guilty of this by adding pointless details that don't mean anything or even get referenced ever again.
Imagine if you're playing a game and you randomly learn from an npc that owning property in this town comes with a 30% property tax, okay whatever we know that information but will it ever play into the story?
Is that something we might have inferred about from the environment? Or was it connected to anything else we experience in this town? no? then it's fucking useless.
It doesn't make the world feel any more lived in, it just feels like a pointless detail.

tl;dr excessive worldbuilding is the story equivalent of pic related

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What made you so sensitive?

This.

I have not been moved by fiction like LOTR in a LONG time. Everything about this story is just a celebration of all the beauty and good in this world. Why does no new entertainment stir these deep feelings of happiness and sadness?

I remember reading that George RR Martin wrote a song of ice and fire in reaction to the Lord of the Rings being too black and white, saying "Aragorn never had a tax policy". But after seeing the lotr movies with a fresh set of eyes, I cant help but think Martin is a retarded faggot who missed the point entirely. If lotr is unrealistically glossy then GoT is unrealistically dark and needlessly bleak and depressing just for the sake of it. It's a collection of archetypes playing out an idealized role for themselves and reflecting our cultural values back to us. Complaining that it isn't a high political drama just doesnt make sense because that's not what it was going for in the slightest.

It didnt hit me until now just how distinctly shitty a nihilistic secular point of view is compared to a Christian one. No wonder people are so depressed nowadays, everyone is too embarrassed or edgy to appreciate a glorification of the good of humanity now and again and instead just wants to wallow in misery and self loathing.

So what you're saying is that the only "good" characters one can write are absolute paragons of beauty and virtue?
You're saying that good writers cannot write about deeply flawed and downright evil people?
Are you really, TRULY saying that?
How old are you?

If they cancelled Game of Thrones after one season, literally nothing would have happened. It took four seasons for just ONE character to finally complete a story arc. Then the 50+ other characters never finished their arcs until this rushed ending in season 8.

writing a story about average people is like taking an out of focus photo

>After some 300 years of being conquered chances are you're going to have a standard language
my country is of 1 mil people with a language classified as dying. We have been under foreign rule for a millenia.
Our language still exists and so do many smaller different language groups.

lettersofnote.com/2012/03/i-have-no-ancestors-of-that-gifted.html?m=1

25 July 1938
20 Northmoor Road, Oxford

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter. I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject — which should be sufficient. I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride.

Your enquiry is doubtless made in order to comply with the laws of your own country, but that this should be held to apply to the subjects of another state would be improper, even if it had (as it has not) any bearing whatsoever on the merits of my work or its sustainability for publication, of which you appear to have satisfied yourselves without reference to my Abstammung.

I trust you will find this reply satisfactory, and

remain yours faithfully,

J. R. R. Tolkien

>That's what LOTR was always supposed to emulate.

Badly written fairy tales?

>brainlet reading comprehension
The education system has failed you.

>After some 300 years of being conquered chances are you're going to have a standard language
Why do the Northerners not have their own language even though their gods are different? Hell why do the Wildlings speak the same language? Why do all the city-states all over Essos speak High Valyrian and/or the common tongue?

is this a pasta

Is this satire? It's actually funny if so. Nice job.

>Anyway, a quick search also shows that Don Quixote and Tale of Two Cities sold more than Lord of the Rings
No, that image posted in the thread that shows that is a bestseller list of SINGLE books and only lists the first part of the trilogy. I was talking about the trilogy as one because it is often printed as one massive book.

>Why does no new entertainment stir these deep feelings of happiness and sadness?
It does. You just need to look to works from the east. The west isn't doing it because only melodrama, angst and realism are considered "valid" by todays media.

History is filled with that depressing and gloomy shit that martins books are. Even recent history.
I'ts better to draw attention to horror in world than to turn a blind eye.

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There was a picture comparing the three authors, but I didn't save it:
Tolkien, who build a huge world before even writing his first children's book.
Martin, who just makes up shit as he goes.
Rowling, who didn't even think about the background to her stories until a few books in and now adds all kind of diversity shit years after the books have ended.

>GoT is unrealistically dark and needlessly bleak and depressing just for the sake of it.
Read a chronicle of any actual medieval war. Even GoT looks like a Saturday morning cartoon in comparison.

At least you only see her from behind in this pic. But her face...

Every time I read that quote I remember how much of a hack GURM is.
What were Boby B's or Joffeey's tax policy?

Blizzard does a pretty good job at it with Warcraft and Starcraft, but at the same time they haven't gone far enough to call it in-depth world building

Even if you count the full Trilogy, Don Quixote has sold more than all three LotR books combined. LotR is still #3. It's not like that's bad or anything.

you can't really argue that they aren't a gifted race

they control the media, the banks, most charities, and the list goes on

they decide what millions of people think and feel on a daily basis

Estonian maybe?