Why didn't it do as well as the first one...

The valkyrie conspiracy was intentionally cheesy. Max payne is a sort of parody of detective stuff

Yeah I get that. I like MP1, it's a good game. But MP2 is just better in every game, especially the gameplay. There honestly is not a dull moment in MP2. Every single level is god tier. Not one bad section. Fuck that game is so kino.

>MP2's gameplay is better than 3's even
Lol no
In fact it’s worse than the first one as well
I still like it for what it is, it’s a good game on it’s own, but it’s the weakest of the trilogy

Max Payne 2 lost it's sense of humor and camp. Plus it was annoying as fuck watch Max do a 360 every single time you reload in bullet time.

Because it's worse than the first one by every metric.

Imagine believing this. 3 is too weighty and slow, and is balanced around shitty cover mechanics. 1 is clunky in retrospect. You are underpowered as fuck for the first third of the game, the shootdodge roll gets stuck on objects so you can't jump over tables/benches or ledges. Reloads take ages in slow motion and so does getting up.

2 is the fucking perfect middle ground. Fast reloads, can now slide around and jump over everything. Ragdoll physics on enemies make shooting them satisfying as fuck. Good weapons from the getgo. Level design allows you to do fun and creative things with your dodging, rolling and slow mo abilities and everything just feels fast and responsive.

Max Payne 2 is so far above 1 and 3 in quality it's not even fair competition. MP2 is in it's own league. MP2 is a true 10/10 god tier title, it's rivaled only by FEAR for best shooting mechanics in a game. MP1 is an 8/10 good game, MP3 a 7.5/10 flawed but fun title.

You mean better.

No it didn't. MP2 had tons of humor moments. And the fast reloads were great.

>3 is balanced around cover
Try playing it sometime.

I did and there is cover shooter shit everywhere. I never used it, but it was blatantly obvious you were supposed to use cover and levels were designed that way. It annoyed me. I played MP3 the same way I played 1 and 2. But it played worse than 1 and 2. Those fucking last stands were bullshit. The game was not designed for you to run and gun and dodge around and you would get fucked up hard if you did it in certain areas.

3 is the worst in the series.

Someone doesn't know that there's separate buttons for dodge and shootdodge.

>I will pretend he doesn't know the controls, that'll work

Sorry fag, but I rebind every games controls when I play them. Though it was years ago that I last played MP3 so I might be forgetting minor aspects. I am just recalling bullshit that stuck out to me.

>Sam Lake was amazing.

All he did was be the face for Max in the first game. That's it. The zoomer in you is showing, you only like him because of the memes.

MP1 also has the Kung Fu mod, which makes it infinitely more enjoyable to pretend you're playing the Matrix.

He's talking about sales.
MP2 was considered a flop.

>the shootdodge roll gets stuck on objects so you can't jump over tables/benches or ledges
Not to mention MP1 automatically forces Max to rise up after every single shootdodge even if you wanted to stay down. So glad they fixed that shit and all the other jank in 2. My only beef with MP2 would be that it's way too easy when compared to 1 and 3, at least on default difficulties that are unlocked from the start.

I disagree. 2 had the better soundtrack and story. I get that 1 was intentional cheese, but 2 tried and I think delivered on a genuine noir feeling story.
Also the reload in 2 in bullet time was rad

I had a dream of my wife.
She was dead.
But it was all right.

Attached: 1.png (356x558, 429K)

I enjoyed all of the Max Payne games

Its a big step down in terms of gameplay that scrapped everything good in 1 and replaced it with something crappy then completely shifted the focus to compensate. With 1 you can see that the game was built as a normal TPS and had the slowmo mechanic added on top. Not using slowmo or shoot dodges is not only perfectly viable but its actually a lot of fun, the whole game has this fast pace while still remaining decently challenging. 2 is built entirely around its slowmo gimmick, bullets cant be dodged, strafing is useless, weapons are homogenized BUT IT SURE HAS A LOT OF SLOWMO! It quickly becomes absurd how you can mow down armies of enemies mindlessly and get faster and faster as a result, its such a stupidly overpowered system. Beyond that the levels arent as tight, they experimented with more open areas heavier on exploration like the apartment building which dont jive well with MPs gameplay, and even added shit like the comedy escort mission. Story also takes itself far too seriously and misses what made the original such a blast which was being a pefect mix of humor camp and serious drama/action

This is in the running for shittest opinion on Yea Forums. I seriously don't get how people can like MP1 but dislike MP2 which is a straight up improvement.

Also what kinda of retard played MP1 back in 2001 and didn't use slow mo, and just played it like a normal TPS.

Finding out as a kid that headshots actually worked in max payne 2 after playing the first one blew my fucking mind

Literally the most kino ending of any game.

>Beyond that the levels arent as tight, they experimented with more open areas heavier on exploration like the apartment building which dont jive well with MPs gameplay

But this was one of the best things about MP2's levels and why it was a better game. MP1's levels were a bit too linear and straight forwards. MP2 letting you explore a little bit was so much better. The apartment building, the street during the mob war, all fucking fantastic levels that were made better because they were more open.

The rest of your post just makes you sound like a soulsfag who's only care for a game is difficulty.

I told you directly how, the game removed the good aspects of 1 which is dodgeable bullets, weapons with unique utility, all semblance of challenge and tight levels. I thought slowmo was cool at first but its something that gets very stale very quickly, and shoot dodging is just a terrible thought out mechanic. Every time I return to 2 it gets worse, while its the opposite with 1 which is great long after you get over EBIN JOHN WOO SLOWMO

I dont like the forced romance subplot with Mona Sax. I guess she's needed to help Max move on

Sounds like you enjoy filler and fluff, I just like my fast paced action which is why 1 will forever be better.

>slow mo gets boring

Just fuck off and play a different series then fag. Literally every other game plays at a normal speed, slow mo is Max Payne's thing. You are literally seething over the primary mechanic of the game being put to full use in MP2.

If MP2 stripped back the slow mo and made it more like MP1, it would literally be a worse game.

>weapons unique ability

What the fuck are you blathering about. It's the same in 2 you retard.

>muh challenge

Soulsfag. Difficulty is a meme once you've been playing games for a decade or more anyways. The only difficulty to be found in games is in MP games. If you want difficulty don't play SP games. This is literally a non issue. MP1 isn't hard. MP2 isn't hard. MP2 is more fun than MP1 though.

>tight levels

A bad thing.

I will give you dodgable bullets but it's such a small issue I barely even care about it. The improvements MP2 made over 1 were immense.

They work in Max Payne 1 as well, but you cant use dual pistols and expect perfect accuracy headshots, that's what the deagle, sniper and colt commando are for.

If you like fast paced action 2 is the better game though. 1 is slow and clunky. 2 feels fast and responsive as fuck.

This pic gave me a raging boner when i was 10 yrs old

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I felt like there were more CGI cutscenes compared to the first game. Comic book panels were great, I don't know why they would change that.

>filler and fluff

>good level design and exploration is filler and fluff

Kill yourself. No I am serious, kill yourself, you are cancer on gaming.

Level design > Movement Mechanics > Combat Mechanics.

Comic books are gay you fucking nerd.

There are no TPS games like Max Payne 1 even if you ignore the slowmo, its unique because of the bullet dodging, the well designed weapons and the levels. Max Payne 3 also plays fairly well without slowmo, Max Payne 2 is the odd one here where it plays like total shit without slowmo and is totally unsatisfying without. The weapons all have unique utility, deagle is your pinpoint accurate gun, shotgun is for quick kills at close range, pistols are for midrange combat, uzis are for quick bursts of insane dps, and so on. You are encouraged to switch between them and its fun. In Max Payne 2 the weapons barely feel different and many of them are basically just variations on the same gun. And what do you play it for, style? Play Stranglehold retard, that game actually has a wide range of moves that are fast paced and feel cool, and a scoring system not just an op slowmo mechanic and slow crappy shoot dodges.

fuck yeah, underboob was my go-to when I was young

Good level design is all about making good enemy encounters, using geometry to create unique challenges, and pacing said challenges well, not just purdy grafixxx and """exploration""" aka running around empty rooms doing nothing in particular or getting bogged down by mid gameplay cutscenes or escort missions. If you want exploration play a dungeon crawler, Max Payne is for action

Thanks for revealing to me you are one of those retards who doesn't play games for an experience, but just wants to beat things and win and is a difficulty shitter. I can now safely consider your opinions trash.

>plays MP1 and MP3 without using slow mo

This shit defies all logic. Do you play platformers without jumping too? Why would you do that? I guess it would be a bit harder, but would it be fun? No. Slow mo is fun. That's why you play Max Payne. For fun slow mo. I don't give a shit if it's OP, it's a fucking single player game. If a single player game has ever, EVER fucking tested your skill or ability you are a compete shitter who needs to fuck off to a Lego game so you can practice gitting gud. Only MP games are difficult. You want to test your skill at combat, play a MP game. Do not bring stupid skill shit into SP games. SP games are better than MP games. SP games are about an experience, it's about good level design, great atmosphere, fun and responsive movement mechanics, and FUN combat. Fun combat is ALWAYS, fucking always 100% of the time better than difficult combat for the sake of difficulty. Fun is why you play a game. I don't care if an encounter with an enemy is easy as fuck. If it's fun. It's good. And MP2 every single enemy encounter is fun and extremely satisfying.

>aka running around empty rooms doing nothing

Empty rooms are by definition not good level design you fucking retard.

Max Payne 2 has the best enemy encounter design in the series BTW. Aside from FEAR, I've never had more fun and satisfying shootouts than in MP2.

Graphics have nothing to do with level design, dunno why you'd even bring that up.

youtu.be/as9BCiK16d0?t=647
>Mona knew the manor. She was working for Woden.
>Vlad had told me the truth.

>for an experience
Ah so youre one of the Gone Home fans? Fuck off lol, I got the experience between levels a very fun story with enjoyable dialogue, I dont need that shit popping up during action its a waste.
>Why would you do that?
Because going fast > going slow in terms of fun, Max Payne 1 was good for this probably by accident.
>"o-only MP is challenging" cope
Cringeworthy shit senpai

Then why are you praising Max Payne 2? Many levels like the apartment building have a bunch of literal dead ends and pointless side areas. Youre so full of shit lol

>first thing he thinks of when thinking of vidya experience is gone homo

Yeah, you need to kill yourself. Please just fucking off yourself you are cancer and need to be prevented from playing video games. You are the reason bad video games are made, because devs want to cater to shit eating idiots like you.

>that cope at not being able to handle the challenge of MP games
>he has to play """""hard""""" SP games to feel like he achieved something at life

Fucking cope lel.

You don't know what good level design is. Don't even reply to me anymore you filthy fucking pleb.

Christ, MP2 is basically a different series than MP1 and 3 as far as the fanbase is. Fuck MP1 and MP3 fans. Literal biggest plebs on earth. Only MP2 fans are based.

You dont even have a working concept of fun considering that youre separating it from challenge, your IQ is too low for a serious convo about the design of the games so Im just taking the piss. 2 actually used to be my favorite but as I said each time I revisited it, it got worse. Theres nothing fun about killing enemies before they even have a chance to act

>Theres nothing fun about killing enemies before they even have a chance to act

Wrong. But expected from a pathetic tastelet. Getting the drop on a group of enemies, and managing to kill all of them before they can react is extremely satisfying, especially if the game, through good level design allowed you to see/know of them them beforehand and have a bit of planning time to decide what to do in that encounter. Letting an enemy shoot back at you means you failed that encounter because of your tactical mistake. Sure a resultant shootout can be fun though with you trying to rectify your mistake. You sound like a funless pleb though.

>I played the same game a million times over and then it got boring because I knew where every enemy was

No shit retard. Fucking christ, I think your the one with the low IQ here.

>you nee challenge to have fun

No you don't. This is your soulsfag damaged brain problems speaking again. Most SP games are not even challenging anyways. At most they offer minimal challenge, most game AI is too retarded to be truly challenging. Good thing that you can have lots of fun without challenge though. I mean imagine that. Imagine if challenge was actually required to have fun, well that would mean exploration wouldn't be very fun would it. Yet it's literally the apex of fun in any game that allows it.

Agreed. I don't know what that other guy is talking about. Level design is not big open pretty empty levels. Level design is how the level filters the player into the gameplay.

I don't remember playing MP2 but I do remember it was really short and therefore I'm assuming it was really easy. I do remember beating the last boss and thinking "was that it". This was 2004 though so I can't give more insight on the game. I just came to say MP1 was a great game that I have gone back to many times since release. MP3 is also really good.

>No you don't
lol now why would I bother replying to anything else after you outed yourself as being an absolute and utter retard? Fun in games can ONLY exist where there is challenge, its nearly synonymous with it, when challenge is at a level high enough to be engaging but low enough to not be frustrating is when fun occurs, if you had even the slightest fucking clue about game design youd know this. Video games are by design challenges optimized for fun unlike real life skills which dont give a shit about your fun theyre just there. Exploration relies on challenge, at least the proper kind not the retarded modern loot collecting shit which hooks you through compulsion. How old are you? Be honest

>Level design is not big open pretty empty levels. Level design is how the level filters the player into the gameplay.

Good thing I never claimed that you stupid little faggot.

You're arguing for MP2 level design which has big open pretty empty levels though.

Brainlet tier response. If what you said was true, no one would replay platformers they enjoyed as a kid. Yet people still consider them some of the best games ever made. Platformers are easy as fuck yet still very satisfying. You know why? Because they don't rely on combat. Their main mechanics are in movement, and you always feel like you are exploring a well designed level. The combat is mostly an afterthought compared to navigation.

Your entire argument rests on a false pillar. You think combat is the center of a game. But it's not. It's the third most important thing. Your level design and your movement/navigation mechanics far outweigh the combat in importance. MP2 is so much better than 1 and 3 when it comes to level design and especially movement. MP2 has the best and more satisfying movement in the series. Combat is perfect in it too, but it being slightly too easy doesn't matter. Max Payne was never about difficulty in the first place. MP1 was held back by really clunky bad movement mechanics. You do a dodge, you automatically stop shooting and stand up, even if you want to stay laying down and shooting. It's annoying. Not to mention in the levels in smaller rooms going through the junkie apartments, you can't even jump over a table, Max gets stuck on them. Yeah maybe the combat when not in slow mo is a bit harder, but fucking christ the movement is so gimped and shit feeling it's not worth it. 2 is just plain better because it has superior movement and level design which allows you to take advantage of the superior movement mechanics. The fast reload, which you shitted on since you have extremely low IQ was a big thing to improve the pacing. In MP1 I had great shootouts feel ruined because I had to slowly reload, it felt agonizingly slow all of a sudden. It really ruined the pacing. So fast reloads in MP2 really helped the game stay on it's feet, it helped pacing tenfold. It speed the game up and kept you moving. It was a great addition.

Except it doesn't.

In a platformer your main mode of gameplay is not combat though. It's platforming. Jumping and navigating levels need to be tight. Therefore the game becomes fun and challenging based on what the levels present to you and how to get past obstacles. Nothing to do with combat. Nice strawman.

Escort missions, retarded reload animations, really poor marketing, no multiplayer (which was a necessity at the time for a shooter). Also no Sam Lake as Max.

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>etarded reload animations

Kill yourself.

And MP2 Max's model looks much better than the MP1 Max.

It doesn't matter if it's main or not. Combat is always subservient to movement and level design in any game that has all three. "Good" combat but with bad or clunky movement will just feel bad, it will not feel fun. Good combat but with shit levels will get old fast.

>Kill yourself.
Fuck you, they looked terrible and took around half an hour to finish.

>And MP2 Max's model looks much better than the MP1 Max
oh boy, here we go.

Attached: 1551766187873.jpg (901x1200, 121K)

MAX PAYNE 2 WAS BAD WHILE MAX PAYNE 1 WAS GOOD

>And MP2 Max's model looks much better than the MP1 Max.
no

Jesus you have an extremely poorly thought out view of games, legit stupid. Challenge works on multiple levels, explicit fail states are the most obvious layer of challenge but there are far, far more for a start platformers with more indepth movement mechanics like Mario 64 come with the implicit challenge of stringing together moves that feel seamless and not missing, early speedruns relying on movement rather than exploits took this idea to its logical conclusion and ended up with very frustrating challenges that demand a lot of timing and precision. Beyond that, if challenge is absent then players will want to make their own because otherwise boredom sets in. A game needs to accomodate such playstyles and make them fun, which is why I brought up the MP1 example because not using slowmo is very enjoyable, I can make the game less dull by limiting myself without making it unenjoyable while Max Payne 2 doesnt allow that you either play by its rules and abuse the OP slowmo or youre funneled into a dumb slow playstyle with no dodging. The game doesnt actually have any interesting mechanics either, the movement is weightless, the shooting has been dumbed down not just because of weapons and op slowmo but because you no longer need to lead shots, it has no systems and mechanics like Stranglehold to make stylish play fun, it doesn't have much of anything. Stop being an absolute moron and think about where your train of thought leads, that Gone Home example was provocative but this "exploration is where the fun is" mentality is what leads to shit like Gone Homo. Not every enjoyable feeling you get in a game is fun, and its always worth distinguishing fun that comes from a game vs fun that comes from other elements like aesthetics. Also why reload if you can switch your guns? Max Payne 1 isnt Max Payne 2, it expects you to use the weapons it gives you instead of sticking to your weaponfu. Fucking kids lmao

It was better than the 24 hours it took MP1's reload animations to finish you stupid little shit for brains. Fucking blow your head off faggot and never post here again. You aren't welcome.

GLUE

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Yes.
KYS
Meme face

>early speedruns
Stopped reading here. Speedrunning is for losers. Kill yourself.

You're holding a ranking of how to define a good game without being fluid enough between genres. You argue for Max Payne having good level design because levels are big and explorable but in the same breath say the combat is well designed enough that you can take out enemies before they even shoot at you, taking away the need to have large shootouts. How then are you going to explore the big explorable (empty) levels if there aren't any guys to shoot in this shooting game?

A shooter shouldn't have big explorable levels for the sake of it because in the end the only movement mechanics of the game is going to be walking around and the actual gameplay will not focus on getting over environmental problems which make platforming fun. Therefore the movement as you so call it should be tied to Combat in a shooting game and not to exploration as a platformer should tie it to.

If we take your model of Level Design > movement > combat into the fighting genre then we end up with shit like Tekken 4 where you have massive open (empty) levels that you can move around in fine but the actual game is trash because all that needs to be good is hitting the other guy.

>Combat is always subservient to movement and level design in any game that has all three
What a stupid distinction, combat cannot be separated from movement and level design in these games unless they are somehow discrete modes of gameplay. In Max Payne 1 you move to dodge bullets which helps you survive and kill enemies, the way you move changes which weapons are viable since they are range based, your position relative to enemies determines how easy or hard they will be to shoot, etc. Movement itself is determined by the levels and encounters, by itself its meaningless. Combat is something you get when you bring all game elements together.

1 was better overall, 2 and 3 should've been a story about another dude in the Max Payne universe

>Speedrunning is for losers.

True, has nothing to do with my point though. You argue using emotional kneejerk responses like a woman so maybe speedrunning would be right up your alley

why the fuck is this game so hard?
i'm playing the first one and every single mistake is punished with death

Did you not play those games? That's completely false. I'm guessing you only played 2.

Quit replying to me, I'm not going to bother reading your posts anymore. I'm You've proved yourself a brainlet with no understanding of what makes a game good, and I no longer give a shit what your opinions are, and have no intention of arguing with a low INT NPC on this board.

Kill yourself already, and you don't deserve a well reasoned response to any of your posts or """arguments""".

>I did and there is cover shooter shit everywhere. I never used it, but it was blatantly obvious you were supposed to use cover and levels were designed that way
It's like vanquish you goddamn moron. Cover exists for faggots and journalists. Anyone else doesn't have to rely on it if they don't want to.

loser

lol youre arguing with several people and theyre all pointing out your idiocy, oof

Because youre playing defensively I guess, move around more enemies cant hit you if youre strafing, and rolling is so good it breaks the game

Enemies hit hard and there are a lot of bullets going around. Try actionjumping a lot, and aim for the head if you're not in the position to create a lead wall yourself

No shootdodging is garbage avoid it like the plague its there strictly for style and maybe as a clutch finisher since you cant die mid shootdodge. Otherwise its slow and leaves you vulnerable to damage mid shoot dodge and after, along with not being that useful for enemy killing because your bullets travel slowly which makes headshots more tricky and requires you to lead your shot. It can do very little that a normal roll cant

Are the gba games any good? Was always curious about those.

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Unironically

>Max Payne
Soul
>Max Payne 2
Soulless

A more convoluted story does not mean it's a better one.
A good story in a video game is one that directs the gameplay and Max Payne does that just fine.

>which is why I brought up the MP1 example because not using slowmo is very enjoyable

But user, it's not. Max Payne played without slow mo and shoot dodging is just a generic clunky shooter. It's not fun. I've tried it. I felt like I was wasting my time. I don't know why someone would try to play Max Payne without slow mo, it's the entire point. Also your argument is really stupid because it relies almost entirely on playing the game without slow mo over and over again. No one wants to do that. And why would you judge a game based on how it plays the 10th time you replay it? You judge based on 1st time. I wouldn't even replay my favorite game more than a few times. Doesn't matter how good a game is, replaying a game is always a disservice. At minimum you need to wait a few years. Honestly whenever I see someone shit on a game, and then their arguments betray the fact they replayed them multiple times I am just like "what the fuck did you expect retard".

I dunno. When I played Max Payne 1 I was pretty disappointed. If anything I'd say that it was soulless. Literally has retarded cthulhu references and some horror shlock demon worshiper, then it goes full retard with government conspiracy theory's. It tried to throw everything into one plot and it just felt full on retarded. People told me MP had a good story, so when I went in and found some soulless "le ebil gubmint/corporation conspiracy plot" I just cringed. I couldn't believe how bad MP1 was. The gameplay was fun but it's nothing like you fags are making out. It's just generic TPS with a gimmick. Almost didn't play 2, but I picked them up in a pack. Glad I did because OP is right, 2 fixed fucking everything. Actual good story with well written characters, gameplay feels fucking wonderful to play. All pacing issues fixed. No fucking retarded conspiracy shit, but actual noire. Max Payne 2 is Max Soul. 1 is the soulless one, well if you don't count 3.

Have sex

I just did a few days ago though.

max payne: soul
max payne 2: kino

both good games for different reasons. first game is great because of the production value forcing the developers pour their hearts into the project, like facescanning themselves instead of actors for the game, acting in the graphic novels themselves etc. max payne 2 is sam lake's magnum opus for what it's worth. not as tongue in cheek as the first game but the noir is on a whole different level.

3 is just shit but the combat is pretty gratifying at times.

This right here. Liking one but disliking the other is full on retarded. They are all good games.

>combat is pretty gratifying at times
Yeah if only you got to play for more than 5 seconds at a time between the 10 minute cutscenes.