Watch footage of a heavy player

>roaming
Doing it wrong. Heavy is defense/support, you should only be making pushes when you've got Medics or several teammates. Playing Heavy 24/7 without a pocket is just roleplaying as a really slow sentry gun, you might as well just go Soldier and get more points.

I'd argue FoS are best used if you're playing on a map that's infested with snipers and other long range shooters. I usually use KGB, even then I don't get involved in CQC

What do you mean? He's just sharing his experience and advice. How is that bait?

How about volunteering for spectator in main menu and being used to fill slots of leavers before it autobalances? AFK players sent to spectator automatically but kicked after another 5 minutes so that they can join again if they were just going for a shit or something.

>watch footage of a scout player
>entire enemy team runs into line of sight and dies over and over

>play the game as scout
>soldiers and engineers peek corners and destroy my shit in seconds
>aimbot constructions happen every minute regularly

so im guessing they just hit the record button when the other team is all f2ps?
how the fuck do you play this class against good players

anyways tf2 thread

his playstyle is horrible.
Heavy isn't supposed to roam around on his own, his role is to deter good players from entering an area and killing bad players who overextended.
Not to mention Huo Long Heater is a minigun that deals less damage in exchange of consuming more ammunition, it's terrible

just fucking play scout if you want to flank

You just have to eat it like the lardass character he is. The only real ‘skill’ you can learn to adapt with him is jump revving corners (short of toggling some haxx), which can’t be fought by any class if used appropriately. Of course, any player worth their salt isn’t going to put themselves in a position to contest that in the first place.
Even “good” heavies get attritioned easily by a decent class if they don’t have their medic buttbuddy. He’s a stupid character to fight against only because of medic.

>so im guessing they just hit the record button when the other team is all f2ps?
Basically.

Use the shotgun

Fuck no

You do make good points, I just think it's disingenuous to call bad advice "bait."

I didn't call it bait, I hoped it was bait.

Jump rev everywhere you go. Never take a normal step, just jump rev that step. During each jump rev, make sure you check your back.

>use the tomislav. it is direct upgrade from the mini
it isn't. tomislav is used by heavies who think they know what they're doing but actually don't.

>How should I improve?
Try this
>No.

WAAAAAH WHY CANT I WIN AGAINST FIVE ENEMIES AT THE SAME TIME THIS CLASS IS SHIT

This is how the Heavy actually works you fucking idiot:
>shoot guy at medium distance
>they receive small damage, but they don't want to get close because they'll die so they go back where they came from
>heavy has now successfully defended whatever he wanted to defend ( usually the objective )

There you go.
You stay close to your teammates. If there's a medic you can stay at the front but still close, otherwise you stay right next to them or behind.
Never use the shotgun because it only works up close and doesn't scare people like the minigun does. Use food so you can heal the teammates around you and yourself.

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>How do I improve?
Here's some trash advice
>No thanks

fixed

You misspelled Natascha
nothing better than nicking scoutfags and soldierfags and stopping them dead in their tracks, killing them and then getting salt in the chat for it

>peek around a corner and track everyone to death
heavy is easy
and f u n

>b-but i need le sandvich to keep juan_rodrigez_2012 alive

Eh, I won't argue semantics. Either way, I agree with your points.

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After they gutted them, melee choice hardly even matters on him anymore outside of edge cases (GRU heavymedic faggots running around the map and maintaining K:D)
I ended up just going back to stock or KGB for boxing memes

there is a reason demo, soldier, scout or medic are classes that are majorly used by the professional players. get good at them and stomp shitters.

Demoknights, too. Their tears are delicious.

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I really want to play TF2 again but I just know everyone who still plays this shit is a 3000-hours-played demon.

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It's too good and shotgun doesnt offer anything to the heavy.
He already does 500 damage per second up close with his minigun, and if someone catches you unrevved you fucked up and should not have gone roaming on your own in the first place.

>play heavy
>up against soldier
>crit direct hit

I wish nothing but death upon that accursed weapon.

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Use it to your advantage
If your enemys are hiding from you, that means your team has more control over the area. Stick with your bros and keep them covered, and make sure to communicate lots. Warn them of spys, snipers, try to keep them healed with your sandvich or banana, Be your teams best friend and they'll be yours too

not him but it's well known that if you have to walk through a sniper sightline the best way to do it is
>take out FoS
>jump-crouch inbetween strafing
>call for medic so heavy places his hand in front of his face
gru got completely gutted tho I agree. I hate the draining health effect

The sandvich is good if you have a pocket medic, or some other player on your team who is cooperating with you.
In 90% of pubs you want to have your shotgun out most of the time, only swapping to the minigun when you're preparing to defend/pressure a point.

OP here, I had completely forgotten about that weapon.
Funny because I used it so much way back when it was the only minigun unlock and it was a straight upgrade.

having a medium healthkit around at all times in infinitely better than a shotgun. if you are refilling it constantly your team will always have an extra healthkit available. there is not a single heavy worth his salt who uses the shotgun when the sandvich isn't banned.

Post your salt harvesting methods, I had a good run last night
>using the vacc on snipers on 2fort
>enemy team starts bitching about it
>my own sniper starts asking me to stop healing him
>getting raged at from two sides at once as i keep interfering

Whenever I've played Heavy it's always felt like the easiest class ever, even without a medic (hell most of the time I don't get a medic on me period) It's just a matter of jumping around corners with your minigun reved, not going out into the open when there are snipers, checking behind yourself constantly and knowing when to fall back and eat your sandwich. Otherwise you just let your massive damage/large healthpool do the work for you.

could have done the same thing with stock or tomislav if you could aim

FoS is the best melee for heavy right now hands down. You can ignore the switch speed penalty too if you swap to your secondary first then your primary.

Banana is really good for putting out teammates who are on fire and you get one every 10 seconds ( 6 if you eat it yourself ).
There's really no reason to go shotty with Heavy. It's not bad at all but the food is better.

>there is not a single heavy worth his salt who uses the shotgun when the sandvich isn't banned.
In competitive modes where you are in communication with, and rely upon your team.
In pubs you serve the team better by being alive. Sandvich lets you heal damage you take, shotgun lets you prevent taking damage. In a pub that's much more important.

if you don't have a medic you should be using the banana. you don't need the shotgun if you have good positioning and don't wander around out in the open like a retard.

>You can ignore the switch speed penalty too if you swap to your secondary first then your primary.
huh?
please elaborate

Back in the earlier days the shotgun was the better option since the minigun was so fucking slow you needed it to fight off lone scouts and such. But at some point back in like 2012 they buffed it so now you literally never need a shotgun as a heavy unless you're using the fucking Brass Beast.

>shotgun lets you prevent taking damage. In a pub that's much more important.
no it doesn't, you can fight if someone catches you by surprise but you aren't avoiding any damage and if you are getting caught by surprise you are a tunnel visioning retard who is out of position.

lmao hold these 100 damage pills bro

it's exactly as I said. the fists of steel has a holster penalty. swapping to your secondary and then your primary circumvents it.

>I can dodge just as many rockets with my minigun revved up as I can while jumping around with my shotgun.

>shotgun lets you prevent taking damage
Why the fuck would you have your shotgun out instead of revving up your minigun?

I mean how does that circumvent it?

It's very doable to dodge rockets with a minigun revved up because you're supposed to be decently far away from your enemies.
The only way for rockets to be undodgeable is if the soldier is above you and/or very close to you, which should never happen

>100 damage pills
>Versus 500 DPS minigun
The only time they're a problem is at extreme range where your minigun can't deal damage, or if the demo is constantly ducking behind a wall. In both of these situations, you have not positioned yourself properly and it's time to fall back and heal and try again.

>peek from cover
>shoot pill
>get back behind cover
>repeat until heavy either dies or runs away

If you're far away.
You don't always have control over that. Which is why you use the shotgun while you move from place to place - again, provided you don't have a medic or team support.
I'm by no means saying the shotgun is 100% the best pick for heavy, that will never be true. But to say that it's never worth taking is just wrong.

Is there a place where I can see the history of the stats of each weapon?
Something like you pick a weapon, then go back or forwards on a timeline to see how different the stats were at different points in time

the penalty only applies to the first weapon switch, if you swap again there is no penalty.

If you don't have your minigun out when a soldier is in front of you you are a retard. if the soldier bombs you it is significantly easier to stop him with the minigun. also yes heavy can dodge with the minigun try it sometime, you should be constantly moving.

You can't know if you're going to be out of position for reasons beyond your control. I get it that there exist situations where you wish you had a shotgun, but you can't predict them and they're unlikely if you're good anyways.

It's like the vita-saw that lets you keep uber when you die. Nobody uses it because you can't know in advance if this life is the one where you'll drop an uber.

Interesting I get it now, thanks.

>how the fuck do you play this class against good players
You play on defense and switch to Scout for offense.

dumb fuck, you can still play defensively on offense by holding the line. It's why level 3 sentries are still better than gunslinger even on offense.

So, if the Natascha got changed, would it be better if it just sped Heavy up on hit? Or stopped enemies in the air, but didn't slow enemies on the ground?

I think we must be imagining different situations. You're in a situation where you're stood in a defensive position with a soldier bombing you. So you're right there, you should have your minigun and push him out.
But say you're crossing through Lobby in Steel, heading for D when a soldier comes in from E. He gets a rocket in, you spin up, he lands a second, you chip him, he lands a three third.
Alternately, he gets a free hit, you've already got your shotgun out, dodge the second, meatshot etc. These situations are hardly fringe cases.

>You can't know if you're going to be out of position for reasons beyond your control
heavy is a defense class, you should always be in a strong position when the enemy arrives. if you use him on offense you're not going to be as effective. the best strategy on offense is to get just close enough that you can bait enemies into overextending while being far enough away that you can safely get back to cover and punish anybody who got too close. heavy is at his best when he is guarding his team not leading the charge. you don't need shotgun for this.

I think you misquoted because I agree with you in that the shotgun is not needed.

>But say you're crossing through Lobby in Steel
you don't play heavy on steel in the first place because demos can corner spam you all day long and there's no reason not to play soldier or demo yourself.

I'd whip out my FoS and get the fuck out of there. If my team is too far away I die for being an idiot.

Alright, but we're talking about playing Heavy. Take any confined Elbow or Lobby in any map you have to walk through. Steel just came to mind.

Also valid, but less reliable, since you're not actively threatening the soldier.

Get in and play it, pussy.
Casual is a mixed bag, so as long as you get your grip back you should be on even grounds with a fair chunk of the playerbase.

you could do some sick Spy corner-stab tactics
>round corner with FoS to make it look like youre running away
>soldiers follows and bumps into you
>either gets meleed to death or dies from his own splash damage

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I really hate the Vita-Saw as it is.
Would be better if it harvested organs on kill but made organs much more valuable, and didn't have a passive negative.

>Take any confined Elbow or Lobby in any map you have to walk through
I don't play most of the stock maps because they're dogshit. If you want to play heavy on 2fort or dustbowl that's your problem, those maps are awful for everybody. I play heavy on payload maps like upward, badwater, swiftwater, etc where open spaces and the cart makes up for heavy's weaknesses on attack and he has good positions to defend from. 5cp are also good but heavy really suffers here because of his poor mobility.

not him but for all the shit that dustbowl gets it doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence as CTF maps, let alone 2f*rt

So who'd you rather have on your team, a good Heavy or a good Engi?

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anybody who has ever had the misfortune of playing that map with a pocket kritz demo on the other team knows how bad it can be. I mean for fucks sake stage 3 is literally one long hallway with a 20 minute timer.

depends on the map and whether we're attacking or defending, but a good Engie is best for general purpose since they have teleporters

Alright, but those maps all still have enclosed areas. Upward's got Tunnel, Sewer, Bridge, and the whole complex around last point. Badwater has the whole area leading up to rooftop at B from both sides, as well as the route on the left after capping C and both side routes to attack last. I'm not super familiar with Swiftwater, but it also has these connecting corridors scattered around.
The maps all follow the general pattern of being large arenas connected by corridors. The shotgun is used when traveling between arenas, where heavy's otherwise most vulnerable.

Depends on team composition. If we have 3 spies and 4 snipers then Heavy, otherwise if there's already plenty of powerclasses I'd say Engineer.

How the FUCK do we fix Heavy? He has so many shit weapons.

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For each kill it gives up to 20% of whatever Uber you had gained last life, even if you used the Uber. So if you build and use 4 Ubers and die with a fifth saved up, you spawn with full Uber. Also each organ increases Uber build rate by 10%. Caps at 5 organs.
And needs a negative. Maybe damage vulnerability, or lowering speed or regen based upon Uber saved up.

You're not vulnerable at all if you have teammates in the front and around you, which is how it will be considering you walk more slowly.

There will be times when you do not have allies all around you, especially when playing on a pub.

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That tier list is kinda shit, let me fix it.

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>Upward's got Tunnel
you take the hill instead which you should be doing in the first place to deny the enemy high ground.
>sewer
why would you ever go through sewer unless you're a spy?
>Bridge
which one are we talking about here?
>and the whole complex around last point
I'll give you this, I rarely play heavy here.

>Badwater has the whole area leading up to rooftop at B from both sides
you should be taking an uber up there because it's almost guaranteed to have sentries.
>as well as the route on the left after capping C
not closed enough where an enemy can catch you by surprise, there are fences leading past the stairs so you can see anybody approaching and past that you're out in the open at tire.
>and both side routes to attack last
you should also take an uber here, heavy jumping from map room with an uber is devastating.

the thing is even on these maps the chokepoints aren't so narrow that you don't have room to dodge if somebody comes around the corner and they are short that if someone isn't actively guarding them they're easy to take.

I have to go but I hope you get my point.

That's the time to fall back or hold your ground, not push forward

you really can't without revamping him. he's good at his job but boring. also valve pls revert eviction notice and dalokohs changes they were balanced.

>GRU/Eviction Notice
>C-tier

Stop this meme that the GRU isn't viable anymore. It's still arguably the best melee for Heavy. I still use it almost every time I play Heavy, and it's never gotten me killed.

Heavy needs some more interesting mechanics to his Miniguns.
How could they be changed in an interesting way to make Heavy more skill-based?

How were they before? See that's why I'd like something like suggested

Heavy is not a frontlinter, why the fuck would you want to get there faster AND will less HP that you can't cure with a medkit?

Using a shotgun does not mean you have to be on the offensive. It's instant (personal) defense as opposed to the minigun's delayed defense.

These are all fair points, I was more caught up on the semantics of what you were saying, I suppose.

I'm also getting pretty sick of arguing this at 2AM so I'm just going to say people should try using the shotgun next time they're in a pub without a medic. It's surprisingly useful if you play around it. Treat the shotgun as your primary, and save your minigun for point offense/defense.

Are you sure?

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>why would you not want to spend 40 seconds trundling slowly to where the teams are fighting
>while soldiers and scouts easily arrive in half of that
Gee maybe I like actually playing the game and supporting my team

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Fourth equip slot dedicated to food.
Slightly faster walking speed when revved up.
The Trash Beast "damage resistance when under 50% hp" thing is given as default to all miniguns.
Rework of unused weapons.
New weapons that create a new subclass ( valve will have to come up with the details )

your graph literally proves his point the minigun is only marginally better up close and by then the DPS is so stupidly high that it only matters in a 1v1 heavy battle

That just confirms his point.
If someone is standing right next to you they're trash and will die anyways.
More effectiveness at long range is what you want.
Teleporters.
Also you aren't supporting shit if you get there with as much health as a scout.

are you retarded?

>nah I always topscore as soldier
What’s it like bullying retards

Pressing R while holding a minigun could do something interesting, but what?

makes the heavy fart and cough

>unequip gloves as soon as you see your rear lines, before engaging
>walk remaining part at normal speed
>health now at 200 and still regenerating

also
>competent engineers
>on pubs

Why did I laugh

heavy says POOTIS

>get there with as much health as a scout.
Just switch to your primary about 5 seconds before the frontlines, you'll be back to 200+ HP in plenty of time, and you'll keep healing back every bit of health you lost in another 5 seconds.

MAKIN'BACON

>watch footage of medic
>Sniped at every possible point and scunts blasting the shit out of him

>play classic medic
>conc jump into enemy base
>pick up flag
>conc back and cap
Why does nobody play the old based medic from QWTF or TFC?

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>Tomislav over Minigun
>ever

a charge forward like the demoman's so you can get the fuck out of shitty situations

Name one reason why random crits should still exist in 2019.

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...

>play classic scout
>do the same thing but with worse guns and health
the only positive is that whoever you manage to kill will probably kill themselves irl

He looks exactly like I imagined him.

yeah but the minigun doesn't clip when you taunt with it which bumps it up to S

>sped Heavy up on hit?
>try to stab a heavy as spy
>he starts hitting people with his minigun
>warp drive activated
>can't catch up now
sounds like a bad idea

lol @ all the players here getting ass mad they arent gud

the reason you're not playing like the streamers you watch is because you're the person they're recording themselves slaughter, not the other way around

>if the other team is retarded that means you're good

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because i love seeing dane and soundsmith s e e t h e

Give heavy a portable version of this:
youtube.com/watch?v=wKlnMwuCZso

Trading consistent damage for burst.

essentially, yes

when youre winning, you define the position of those beneath you. if you decide to label them 'retards', then theyre retards. you would have to be retarded to doubt this

>being better and being good mean the same thing

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If you have a pocket, play like you're a solly/demo
If you don't have a pocket, play like a spy

Wrong
If you have a pocket, play like a minisentry
If you don't, play like a lvl3

if you want to get technical it's not, a winner in a Heavy battle will be decided by the milliseconds spent revving up
No need to get into that situation when you can play like a sneaky Heavy cunt and delete everything from an ambush though.

The objective of the heavy is to deter good players and kill bad players.
He's an area denial class, a mobile sentry gun.