How come Dragon Quest never took off outside Japan?

What the difference?

how come it took off in japan?

I don't think westerners have ever been that fond of turn based games

Square Didn't want the clearly superior series interfering with Final Fantasy's sales in the West.

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If a game can be played on fast forward while holding the attack button then it's trash.

Facts.

FPBP

>b-but Persona 5
>b-but Trails of Cold Steel

Both loved for their story, not their deep turn-based combat system.

Unlike Final Fantasy, the visuals are not that appealing to the western market. Cellshading was never that mainstream.

Even though Akira Toriyama is well known in the west, he is not a god like he is in the east. Also: Dragon Quest was a hit since the first game in Japan, especially because of the console friendly RPG approach. Accessible for it's time and fun.

In the west, RPGs like that would just get more attention after Final Fantasy. That's what i think.

There's this weird consensus that "Dragon Quest is bland" too, that ignores the fact it was one of the first games of it's kind in the market. I think that's just crap, it's like wanting Pokémon or Mario to change a lot or whatever. It's a traditional franchise that made lots of the tropes in the genre.

Good joke. Dragon Quest is as brain dead as they come.

>If a game can be played on fast forward while holding the attack button then it's trash.

I guess that means FFXV is trash

>Both loved for their story

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It is. What’s your point?

Jrpgs are literally inspired from western turn based games, retard.

Ugly Toriyama art style

>There's this weird consensus that "Dragon Quest is bland" too, that ignores the fact it was one of the first games of it's kind in the market. I think that's just crap, it's like wanting Pokémon or Mario to change a lot or whatever. It's a traditional franchise that made lots of the tropes in the genre.
11 FUCKING GAMES
FUCK OFF

It indeed is. Meh story and horrible gameplay, one of the worst open worlds of the generation. The aesthetics are good but the game is not really worth it

It created console RPGs

>How come Dragon Quest never took off outside Japan?

DQ only took off because Toriyama, and because up until that point there was no video game that didn't required skill.

Dragon Quest is the only game that anyone can finish, given enough time played. You don't even have to learn to adapt, the game naturally lets you to overgrind even the final bosses. Compare that to a genre like shmups or fighting games, where execution is a requirement.

this

The name change killed its chances

But it can’t

I never said I love them, retard. Learn to read.

>It created console RPGs
what a mistake that was

>persona 5
>loved for their story

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Except the west stopped making them while Japan continued meaning more westerners weren't used to them. What are even some turn based western RPGs after the 90s other than niche titles?

Yeah, and most of them have mechanical and structural differences. Do you even Dragon Quest V?

generic, and battles are that shitty wizardry shit where you can't see your party. In the west wizardry was basically a niche kusoge series that was a novelty because of its unfair and ballbreaking difficulty (somewhat like the souls crap games now). Also everyone looks like vegeta

>I never said I love them, retard. Learn to read.
I think you might be retarded.

You think people bought Persona 5 for the devil pokemon gameplay? You're fucking retarded.

It became niche because gaming as a whole is mainstream now. The whole playerbase changed.

Action is more appealing to newcomers than having to read numbers and texts to understand the mechanics

All those who claim that it is because it’s generic are wrong, because DQ is always well received when it’s heard of. DQ8, DQ 9, these games were temporary fads

FO 1 and 2
Arcanum
Wizardry 8
M&M6-8
DOS 1&2

We arent japanese salary men

>There's this weird consensus that "Dragon Quest is bland" too, that ignores the fact it was one of the first games of it's kind in the market
I mean being the first of its kind doesn't mean stop making any attempts at innovation since 4.

>it's like wanting Pokémon or Mario to change a lot or whatever.
Mario has made steps to evolve nearly every game. Mario Bros, Mario 3, Super Mario World, and Mario 64 are all significantly different games, yet all remain engaging platformers that retain the spirit of Mario.

>Action is more appealing to newcomers than having to read numbers and texts to understand the mechanics

Neither is a requirement for about 80% of the turn-based jarpigs.

You're right. You're unemployed and with no patience or discipline.

People buy it for 30000 reasons. This whole discussion is dumb.

And i'm not really trying to praise the game, really hated how the final arc of the storyline ended. Still, i've seen people commend almost every aspect of it

>What are even some turn based western RPGs after the 90s other than niche titles?
I take it you only played console games throughout the 90s.

>30000 reasons
Name FIVE without using the "I want to pause and masturbate while my doctor waifu is examining me".

Enix never bothered building a fanbase after DQIV (which arrived in the US after the SNES was on the market for over a year, making it look even more antiquated). They skipped localizing any of the Super Famicom games, so the US didn't get a single DQ game after the NES until the Gameboy Color's DQ Monsters and the remakes of I-III.
When an actual new mainline game finally came over it was DQ7 which looked downright ancient compared to the PS1's Final Fantasy offerings.

Boring as shit and every game is pretty samey. At least Final Fantasy tried to evolve more in terms of both story and gameplay.

They should have heavily market it for the Akira Toriyama designs to market to DBZ fags and beaners

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I'd say it was because of two main reasons:
1. Dragon Quest came out too late in North America to make a major impact on the gaming market there
2. Square outplayed the fuck out of Enix when it came to their Western business strategy

To elaborate: DQ1 was released in North America in 1989 - three years after its launch in the Japanese market. It didn't really catch on, and by the time its sequels came out, 16-bit consoles had become the new hotness. In fact, DQ3 and DQ4 both came out long after the SNES was out in North America. By that time, nobody really cared about NES games and those two titles didn't sell well. Meanwhile, Square did one of the smartest moves possible for a company in their position: they skipped two FF releases and released FF4 as FF2 in North America as soon as possible. FF4 came out in 1991, right around the launch window of the SNES, and became a popular third-party title because of it. Thus, by the time you got to the late SNES era around 1994-1995, Enix of America had gone bankrupt while FF6 went on to sell around 800,000 copies in North America.

because we didn't get marketing like this
youtube.com/watch?v=a-wLmabmOVY

>and battles are that shitty wizardry shit where you can't see your party.
that was the charm and aesthetic of earlier Dragon Quest for me, which I loved ever since I was a kid

there's a few reasons why it never caught on:
>enix didn't localize dqv or dqvi when they first came out
>by the time dqvii finally came out in north america, the next console generation was already underway
>final fantasy got the $100 million marketing budget, not dragon quest
>pokemon got the historic consumer fad, not dragon quest
>jrpgs didn't become popular in the west until the late '90s, and at that point, we were getting plenty of jrpgs that weren't as generic/by-the-books as dragon quest is
dq dominates in japan because it pioneered a genre that japanese audiences fell in love with. it doesn't have that same advantage anywhere else because nobody cared about jrpgs until there were way more options to choose from. dq's appeal relies heavily on nostalgia that only japanese people would have.

>I mean being the first of its kind doesn't mean stop making any attempts at innovation since 4

Dragon Quest 1 was really groundbreaking when it launched. It is, by itself, the creation of a new genre.

Dragon Quest 2 added a party, changing basically the whole combat dynamic. Also a pretty big innovation that would become a standard for JRPGs. And yes, in Dragon Quest 1, you could only control one character.

Dragon Quest 3 was really innovative. We started having day and night cycle (something that was kind of experimental for it's time and many games couldn't really make good use of it, like Castlevania 2) and a customizable party, which is probably something borrowed from WRPGs. Still, it's really different from most JRPGs. It's also REALLY non-linear for the JRPG standards.

Dragon Quest IV is a tale of different protagonist and unlike 3, it uses the original 2 games' linear approach. It isn't THAT innovative but the storytelling and the game structure was really something apart from the other games.

And then you have V, which basically mixes regular turn based games with monster collecting.

I mean, maybe after V they kinda lost the hand in innovation and started to appeal to the nostalgiafags, but still: even Dragon Quest 11 has it's own set of individual mechanics. Dragon Quest is indeed a franchise about the traditional experience of being a JRPG hero, but it tries to changes the way it builds it's context almost every title. There are games you can even marry and focus on this roleplay concept. There are others which are more narrative focused like Final Fantasy. It's kinda diverse really

They aren't really required, but they do happen to appear on the screen.

Action is more immersive to the average person since the feedback is instantaneous and not turn based.

>I mean, maybe after V they kinda lost the hand in innovation and started to appeal to the nostalgiafags, but still: even Dragon Quest 11 has it's own set of individual mechanics. Dragon Quest is indeed a franchise about the traditional experience of being a JRPG hero, but it tries to changes the way it builds it's context almost every title. There are games you can even marry and focus on this roleplay concept. There are others which are more narrative focused like Final Fantasy. It's kinda diverse really

its* fixed

WAKEY WAKEY BIANCA, IT'S TIME FOR YOUR DAILY PROTEIN MEAL

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I can't wait for DQ11 on switch, a full traditional AAA RPG completely playable in 2D in 2019

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Still bland kusoge.

I will say that it's ironic that Final Fantasy has drifted so far from what made it popular and has become an unrecognizable train wreck that the latest DQs are more enjoyable experience than the latest FFs by virtue of not deviating greatly from it's predecessors.

The interface design is great.

The story isn't really that good but sure has it's deal of appeal to the average non JRPG player to consume. It's also really easy to relate since there's no complex lore or something like that

The gameplay feels really dynamic because of the great combat animation, feedback and inventive interface. It's also fun and really easy to get into, even though it still has its own deal of complexity

The in-game visuals are great, especially because of the intelligent use of colors and this cool shader they did

The soundtrack is pure kino material. Shoji Meguro is a great composer, after all.

I could state even more motives. There are motives within these motives, if you really are into finding the reasons people like this game. I'm not really that much of a fun since i'm more of a SMT Strange Journey guy, but oh well

can kon turn his dick into stone and still feel pleasure from it

Yeah, i do agree on that. FFXV's combat is a fucking chaos and i'm not even against FF having a combat system. Just make it like Kingdom Hearts 2 or something and it's set.

And that's not even the worst part of FFXV, the game is really full of issues. I just like pretending Nier Automata is FFXV and that Dragon Quest XI is a cool classic FF spin-off so that i can sleep peacefully

I played DQ9. I liked the character maker and how all the armor would render on the player rather than just being stuck to 1 default design.

This makes no sense when they were really polished for their time. That's just shitposting

Adding bloat doesn't make game good.

11 games over the course of 32 fucking years

I dont get why people say the games arent different enough, they're roughly the same in some elements of plot but it switches up the idea of classes and parties and a whole bunch of other stuff all the time. It just doesnt change the very core mechanics, which is great because otherwise you end up with Sticker Star.

Honestly the whole DQ is uber traditionalist is just a shitty meme, every game has its differences and gimmicks and changes stuff around all the time. I mean, it even has a fucking mmo entry. Yet everyoen gets on its case simply because it isn't turning its battle system into a actionbased shitshow. You can't look at DQ 9 and say it's much like 5.

>why is [thing from Japan] not popular outside Japan?
>it's boring
>THAT'S NOT FAIR IT INVENTED ITS GENRE YOU CAN'T BE MEAN TO IT

Why do people actually believe this with so many things when it is N-E-V-E-R true? All Japan has ever, EVER done is take American inventions and create more efficient processes for replicating or, yes, arguably improving them. King's Quest, Ultima, and a litany of other American, fantasy DnD-inspired video games predate DQ by damned near a full decade and Dragon Quest brazenly takes direct inspiration from them.

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It's just too generic. I've only played DQ8 and I stopped around the second main island once you get the ship. The art and music are superb but the plot wasn't all that interesting and the skill system annoyed the hell out of me because it encourages you to look up on shit.
Maybe someday I'll try DQ5 as I've heard it's the best one in the series but as of now, it's very deep in my backlog.

"But thou must" doesn't appeal to western audiences used to freedom of choice.

Enix ALMOST localized Dragon Quest VI as "Dragon Warrior 5"(they would have skipped V), even fully translated it, but the American branch went out of business before it could be released.
It's strange to imagine a scenario where people are nostalgiafagging over a DQ game that's usually one of the least liked or well known.

Bad marketing, flat-out not localizing mainline games in the SNES era.
Similar thing happened to Earthbound originally, beloved in Japan but was a joke during its release in the US primarily because of shit marketing
By the time they wised up its niche was filled and they still don't do a good job of marketing it

forgot pic
VI(and the III SFC remake) looked so damn good

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Because it's an incredibly basic and tedious game with a very heavy emphasis on grinding and almost no story. FF4, 6 and 7 which were responsible for the popularity of FF in the west had more inventive settings/plots and much more interesting story overall.

Pisses me off that I bought the PS4 version last year on sale then a few months later the Switch version is announced to have all these extra features. I haven't even started on the PS4 version yet and there doesn't seem to be any point to doing so now.

I've played DQVI on the DS re-release, it's about as bog standard as a JRPG can be. Nothing really stands out.

This. I kept hearing about this franchise until I gave 3, 6 and 8 a try and couldn't finish them.
They just eventually boil down to repeating the same strategy on 90% of the encounters over and over and over again.

>Pisses me off that I bought the PS4 version last year on sale then a few months later the Switch version is announced to have all these extra features.
same for me except I bought the PC version instead.

that's why console wars are aids, it's anti-consumer as fuck, I don't have a ps4 but I sure as fuck would have bought 11, and I'd be just as mad as you are now

I made it through 99% of DQVI just spamming Kazaam or whatever the lightning spell the Hero class gets early on.

Word of advice for anyone who wants to play III: choose an all-female party

The two games that DID have something resembling a story were never originally released in the West

Not enough low effort fanservice and waifufaggotry for ironic weebs to jerk off to.

>jarpig shit

DQ is peak ironic weeb NPC faggotry

lol

>waifufaggotry
Nigga do you even Dragon Quest?

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Traditional turn-based JRPGs scare off boomers.
They need fast paced automatic battles or their OCD flares up.

Thanks for proving my point

No problem dude

Yeah but we're not in their time, we're here in the now, and NOW it's bland as fuck.

I said not enough, most people get pissed off because there's usually like 1 girl.
Also the Akira Toriyama artstyle is a pretty big casual filter to waifufags.

This whole thread and nobody pointed out how fucking retarded you are. You do know Dragon Quest was made by Enix and not Squaresoft up until their merger in 2002. They released 7 DQ games by then. Get the fuck off of the internet.

That's not Xenoblade or Persona

I honestly think the only reason the West still gets Dragon Quest games to this day is because of Square Enix and Nintendo
Without them we probably wouldn't even have gotten VIII

Literally impossible. How do i beat jade? I'[m stuck with the roid user who gets put to sleep while i hope to parry shit with my greatsword and not get killed in two back to back turns. Playing on draconian also.

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>a literal children's game

You havin' a giggle, m8? Persona 5's story is complete rubbish and if you got your head outta your daft cunt you'd understand.

All I know is that I enjoyed playing VI remake up until the last stretch of the game, because I felt incomplete missing out on Amos. Was also enjoying IX up until the academy area because the headmaster demon was destroying my squad. Good times though. I should go back to them. Also how were the 3DS releases?

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>one of if not the most well-known japanese artists in western culture
>filter for waifufags
Man stop blowing nonsense out your ass.

It had the fortune of both having a both extremely generic and weeb artsyle. It took me ages to realize that they weren't supposed to be shovelware garbage.

How is Toriyamas artstyle in any way generic? Its as unique as it gets from japan.

turns out series don't grow in popularity when you spend decades at a time refusing to localize them. we got what, 1, 2, 8, 6 (remake), 7 (remake) and 11. and there was probably something like 20 years between 2 and 8, and 10 years between 8 and the handheld remakes.
(I'm probably very wrong about a lot of this, i'm just going off of memory)

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Japan likes him, but I rarely see waifufags in the west obsessing over his girls.

By being "Japanese" and "bog-standard fantasy". It looks unique when you compare it to other weebshit, but not particularly so on the shelf in a store. There is just no reason to pick dq over whatever else they have.

>How come Dragon Quest never took off outside Japan?
Japanese "humor" like this
youtube.com/watch?v=ubX_aqXctRk

Where were you the past few months?

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People keep saying it's very generic yet I can't think of anything like Dragon Quest.

I - 1989
II - 1990
III and IV - 1992
gap
VII - 2001
VIII - 2005
IX - 2010
gap
XI - 2018

Yea Forums sexualizes anything, I'm talking about the majority of Dragon Ball fans in the west, the normalfags.

If you're gonna talk about nip humour and DQ at least post Yoshishiko

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He should start with 3 on gbc, then go to 2.

Souls games aren't that hard, and certainly not in the way that Wizardry games are hard.
Average NES games like Punch-Out and Castlevania are at least as hard as Souls, and that's not saying anything about Arcade games that were even more difficult.

wow, i didn't know we got all the NES games. so they really only skipped the SNES games and the Wii game.

The west hates stories that feel "sincere", everything must have an edgy twist. Furthermore, once something is set as "generic" in the public mind, they become hellbent on it being something permanent, like, you had people complaining about how generic 3D platformers were even when we had less than one new game a year.

DQVIII was a moderate hit on the PS2, it was my first DQ and I thought it was great
definitely a welcomed game after the disappointment that was FFXII

>everything must have an edgy twist.
isn't that most jap rpgs?

not really, most jap rpgs are of the "friendship and love win over evil" variety.

The franchise was sorta popular in Mexico for a while back in the 90s emulation scene. People here are so fucking obsessed with Dragon Ball that i guarantee had Enix pushed the marketing toward the country DQ would've been just as big as in Japan just by being associated with Toriyama.
Then again i guess i should be thankful, because i absolutely can't stand DQ's main theme.

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>Broly's father did everything to protect his son including killing his only remaning friend
>Broly's father trained him so he ca survive in a harsh environment
>this bitch show up
>start giving her opinions and judging their relationship even tho she know nothing about their circumstances
>turned Broly against his father
>manipulate Broly who is basically a child in a man's body
>get Broly's father killed
>takes Broly to the planet he escape from and have him protect her and provide her food which he wouldn't be able to do with his training from his father
FUCK THIS BITCH

>most jap rpgs are of the "friendship and love win over evil" variety.
I can see why the west got tired of that quickly then.

You know what the localisation team should have done? They should have just ignored the NES entirely and started with the SNES titles.
The I-III remakes, V and VI, maybe release IV on the PS1 alongside VII.

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>IQ requirement too high for outsiders
DQ's main target audience are elementary/middle schoolers

Yes, but not DQ, see the twist?

they also should have picked a better colour for their menus (or given the player an option to change the colour), even the black NES menus are much better than grey

The Europeans didn't get shit until VIII

Church is good in Dragon Quest so it couldn't get popular in the US. Think it's a coincidence why DQ VIII, the only game where the church is bad, turn out to be most popular in the US? The west just wants to kill God and Final Fantasy scratced that itch not DQ, where you kill the devil

Could have been worse. I probably would have never even tried an RPG until FFII on the SNES if I hadn't gotten Dragon Warrior for free with my Nintendo Power subscription.

The pattern you see in JRPGs is somewhat similar to what you see in the Magical Girl genre, Magical Girls being, of course, something from the 60s, but still, you have some similarities. You have the genesis of the genre that is mostly lost to the US, with early DQ and other RPG translation being akin to Harmony Gold Minky Momo, then, in a moment where the US is suddenly more open to Japanese media, the latest trend of the market becomes popular (Final Fantasy and Pokemon for JRPG, Sailor Moon for MG) being the first experience the west has had with such genres, they start to attribute the credit of certain tropes to the wrong show/game, this leads to a lot of confusion and 'clone calling', leading to fanbases riddled with misconceptions and little desire to explore more.

In this dysfunctional environment, where they are constantly exalting a few titles over the clones, a concept of traditional is created, a broken one that makes little sense, but it is still made and tagged as "bad" and "generic" even though people rarely consume such media. In such an environment it's impossible for a traditional series to make it because the western consumers have been pavloved into auto-tagging certain things as bad. Only things that are 'edgy and deconstructive' or very clear on their pandering to a YA otaku audience, with meta jokes and the like, can make it trough.

they missed the boat when it came to advertising it

Does DQ have a "definitive version list" like FF does?

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>JRPG
>high IQ requirement
based retardbro

Cause it's fuckin boring

11 was quite popular in the west.

They're all child versions of actual JRPGs.

Well, I like its character design for the most part.

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Are any of the mobile ports of dq games good?

>Are any of the mobile ports of dq games good?
yes, they're the definitive versions.

Yes
I-II are good
III is good but it's missing shit from SNES
IV-VI are great
Don't play VIII on a phone

>Pokémon has since gone on to become the highest-grossing media franchise of all time,[9][10][11] with $90 billion in total franchise revenue.[12][13]

*tipping intensifies*

Why did he tear up during the FFVII remake trailer? 7 isn't that good of a game

DQ is to predictable and generic for the west.
Its basically a JRPG for Japanese normies.
You play it and you get exactly what you expect from it.
No interesting plot twists no unique situations characters are also usually bog standard.
And most of the time music is forgettable.
And nearly all dungeons are just generic caves or ruins ending whit a generic monster boss.
And the final boss will always be just some random Deamon lord.

You can pretend that the series is secretly superior and that people are just plebs for not liking it but fact is nearly all other popular JRPGs give players unique unpredictable experiences.

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If you're like me and enjoy slower paced jrpgs with an emphasis on exploring towns and dialogue, then you'll probably like dragon quest. The art style always drew me in as well. One of my favorite series -- I like it as much as ff. Maybe even more so.

It's really the art style. Somehow it does resonate with japs, but not with westerners.

>No interesting plot twists no unique situations
Play one before you talk about it

Enix didn't give a fuck about the US. We got Dragon Quest I-IV, but II, III, and IV were barely marketed. When the SNES hit they just stopped releasing Dragon Quest games outside of Japan. In fact Dragon Quest III and IV came out right around the SNES release or after it. Then next one to come out was a PS1 game after a 10 year gap.
Meanwhile Square released a Final Fantasy game every few years pretty consistently. We also had a lot of other great Square RPGs to fill the gaps.
I don't think they even bothered releasing the Dragon Quest games in Europe until the DS games.

But Wizardry isn't a JRPG.

It technically is
Japs bought the brand, right?

No? They just had a number of exclusive ports and a few spinoffs.

What a shitty and unfunny list.

>but fact is nearly all other popular JRPGs give players unique unpredictable experiences.
If everyone uses twists and 'different' settings, then the normal becomes what is different. Truth is, DQ is a pleasant sight in a genre that is dominated by science-fantasy meta riddled stories.

Oh if you say so I guess.

Why are twists the end all be all of storytelling? Does proper execution mean nothing? Not leaving loose ends? This is why western media is so trashy today, everyone is trying to up one another with "subverting expectations" just like Game of Thrones and The Last Jedi.

>angry that his favorite game is in pleb tier
Make your own list, then, faggot.

Nostalgic autism is one hell of a drug

Westerners had already been playing the vastly more complex and nuanced Ultima V for a full year by the time Dragon Quest 1 came out.

>Does proper execution mean nothing? Not leaving loose ends?
one of the main reasons I hate most japanese media, shit ruins almost all manga/anime.

Because it's boring. Most jrpgs are boring in general. The most successful ones always have some type of gimmick like pokemon or persona

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It did, but Enix didn't want to publish them in the west, causing Nintendo to port the first four to the NES themselves.

Fast forward to today and we STILL have Nintendo or Sony handling the international publishing of the series as SE refuses, despite being one of the biggest companies in gaming.

this should have been /thread

Nintendo published both DQ1 and FF1 themselves and it was part of their "this genre will be the next big thing in the US, you third parties better get on the ball about this shit" initiative. Unfortunately the underestimated the appeal among the main demographic back then and ended up having to give away excess Dragon Warrior stock with Nintendo Power subscriptions. It wasn't until the SNES that RPGs started to draw attention and it didn't hit mainstream until FFVII.

The sad thing about the entire mess was that Phantasy Star blew both DQ and FF away but since it was on a system that virtually nobody cared about in both the US and JP it didn't get nearly as much attention or praise as it deserved.

>Japs bought the brand, right?
how does that make the previous games jrpgs?

The list says franchises, not games.

>The list says franchises
what list?

Sure.

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...

this is what weeaboo faggots truly believe

Play DQXI on hard mode and come back. You will turn into a man

It's true though, most people complain DQ doesn't have the silly gimmicks they grew accustomed to.

They didn't try selling it out of the US.
Arguably, FF didn't really become mainstream until FF7, when Sony helped them sell it in the west on their platform.

I meant to say Japan, not US.

Most popular jrpgs plots are also predictable.

divinity os2 is the most successful western CRPG of the decade
god I hate this retarded fucking argument

casualized a whole generation

its the nips that want everything to be an action game now

>play the newer one
>absolutely ancient turn based battle system
literally RPG Maker tier with prettier graphics, there's just no excuse