Why are gamers in perpetual denial about politics in Japanese games, Yea Forums?

>reddit missing the point this hard

Yeah, corporations are very eco-concious. They'd never trade a quick buck to fuck the environment over.

itt: Yea Forums pretends to know how businesses work

I like how we've expanded beyond just reposting the same threads all day and into reposting the first few replies as well in order to make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that we have the exact same thread.

I can't imagine what kind of boring loser you have to be to think that FF7 is really political. The stuff that it does have is the really standard generic stuff made by a guy in his sleep to get the cool action plot going. This is the same game that does have fun sword animations, summons, snowboarding, going to las vegas, riding giant chickens and so on. You think this is a serious critique of anything? You must be nuts. It's like saying that FF1 is a critique about monarchy and power, and not just a fun game where you play as some knights and wizards and fight monsters.

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I'm probably missing the point of this image, but most people were like 12 when they first played FF7 so it's only natural that they'd overlook the message the game was trying to convey in favor of "WOA CLOUD'S A FRICKEN BADASS !!" and nostalgia only reinforces this sentiment.

We aren't, but you hit the nail on the head with that image. by the end of FFVII i was not thinking "mang, muh environmentilsm" i was thinking "aw man this rivalry between Cloud and Septh! Based!" Feel free to add shit telling me "x is bad!" But i probably will just tell you Tifa had massive tits and it was so cash.

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compared to what? individual people engaging in business without forming corporations? you think they'll respect the environment more? the theme of ff7 was just environmentalism, not anti-corporatism in particular

Apples and oranges user.

Not really an excuse for them to do it today, when they’re (supposedly) adults though

The Japanese gaming industry is cucked beyond belief, but it's ok cause Japan :-)

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What makes you think that light adventure can't contain dead-simple "respect the planet" messages?

oh look, another american thread

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40%

>corporate rule is corporatism
Based retard /pol/ underageb8.
Corporatism is extensive control OF the state OVER the corporations to ensure that the government's workers' and environmental regulations are protected

Like I said, nostalgia dictates that the way we experienced something as a kid is what defines it, if that makes any sense. If you're implying that he played it as an adult and still missed the point, than you'd be correct.

no, ff7 was clearly anti-environment. Square didn't depict realistic environmental issues, instead they lampooned the environmentalist movement by comparing them to a bunch of militant criminals and acted as if they think modern technology is literally completely destroying the world and killing everyone.

This desu. People can't seem to settle for "because it is a video game" when a shit plot point comes up.

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AVALANCHE did absolutely nothing wrong

>compared to what?
To environmental law.
>the theme of ff7 was just environmentalism, not anti-corporatism in particular
The game literally starts with the heroes engaging in eco-terrorism.

is it really that surprising? look at how people inflated the dark souls lore and it doesnt even have a cohesive plot

>they lampooned the environmentalist movement by comparing them to a bunch of militant criminals
You sound like a pussy ngl. "ah, but what they are doing is illegal! tut tut!"

FF7 mostly drops the environmentalism angle pretty early though, before you even leave midgar.

Well, the OP images implies that the game isn't trying to be cool and fun, and that some superficial political message is the grand conclusion, which is laughable, I think. Not only that, but the image is also very belittling, which I think is incredibly presumptuous and disingenuous.

I recognize the plot, I just find it to be so typical as to not be worth mentioning.

uh..user..
people really did try to blow up nuclear reactors in real life, in fact people would protest for weeks in front of those things
and more than a few of those environmental organizations became aggressive
that's why we have the term environmental terrorist

>Well, the OP images implies that the game isn't trying to be cool and fun,
What? He's literally carrying a giant silly sword. Are you so unread that you think a message of a piece of fiction is the 100% entire point? That's some middle school book report tier logic.

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>To environmental law
not answering the question. corporations break the environmental laws compared to environmental law!?
>eco-terrorism
sounds like something an environmentalist would do to anyone/anything regardless of whether it acts as a corporation, is an entity controlled by one individual, or owned publically, as long as it damages the environment. nothing to do with corporations in particular
(I was making a point that you can easily interpret ff7 in different ways even if it seems clear cut)

It's still there, just not as heavy as the beginning.
When you're in space and Cid gives his speech on how precious, yet fragile the planet is.

Yeah thats why avalanche killed millions while shinra were depicted as the good guys, right?

>tv studios are bad
>show produced by a studio
Sometimes it just works man.

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Westerners are so used to vulgar, surface-level meanings in their own media that they can't see anything else in their imports.

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>everywhere you go you see the devastation wrought by Shinra
>Whole cosmo canyon section
>Shinra act as secondary villains right up till the end

Sephiroth only overtakes them once he acquires the means to destroy the planet in one fell swoop, but the environmentalism aspect plays throughout the entire game. You're fucking retarded if you think it doesn't

He was removed from Kingdom Hearts also...

Join the 40% and kill yourself, tranny.

>not answering the question. corporations break the environmental laws compared to environmental law!?
What are you even trying to say here? Are you saying that laws don't matter since companies can break laws? Then make better fucking laws and give chickenshit prosecutors the power to go after the elite fucks.

japan is one to talk about bad corporate culture desu
fuck that hellhole

>What are you even trying to say here?
you didn't answer my question. your answer makes no sense. not saying it's wrong, it doesn't make sense. it's not a valid answer to what I asked.
>Are you saying that laws don't matter since companies can break laws?
no, laws are important and companies shouldn't be able to break them
>Then make better fucking laws and give chickenshit prosecutors the power to go after the elite fucks
good idea

Was the chocobo breeding a serious critique of genetic selection and biological distribution? Look, I can make up things about any game if I want. If you can prove that any themes in FF7 weren't created solely for the purpose of being an entertainment vehicle, the go ahead. Actually, I will pre-empt your response and tell you that the author's intention doesn't matter at all, because it relates to the death of the author.

This isn't as much of an indictment as you think it is because MGS is hypocritical with it's depiction of militarism. Although the dialogue and messaging goes something like "war is bad m'kay" the tone and attention of the lens fetishizes militarism at every turn, every other conversation and scenario framing basically is fantasy military porn.

This goes for any other entertainment product or advertisement which revels in the visceral imagery of certain concepts or goods for entertainment purposes but then throws in some token "drink responsibly" or "but don't do that actually" in the end. This has been studied, if your media is full of pleasing or desirable depictions of certain concepts or actions, even if it is for sarcastic or dismissive purposes, the desirable imagery will make more of an effect than the message will. This is why it doesn't work with Hotline Miami, MGS, Robocop etc and it doesn't work with political parodies like the Colbert Report, because in the end people will only see the depiction of things they like and be left with that impression.

MGS is the last series to be taking any ideas from though, about the military or otherwise. I remember a long time ago around when MGS2 came out that some US Military spokespeople spoke out against the dog tag collecting mechanic in MGS2, because stealing dog tags is actually a war crime. Which is amazing, because Kojima took the time to hire gun specialists to get the guns right and squad specialists just to get the squad search AI right, but he forgot the minor detail about stealing dog tags being a war crime? In a series about honoring muh soldiers? Kojima doesn't know anything about the military or the world in general. He is a Hollywood military entertainment enthusiast, all of his ideas about doing his best to recreate his favorite 80's and 90's action films that he saw in the theaters. If you take any ideas about militarism or warrior philosophy from Kojima, you're a tool. Simple as.

all quiet on the western front isn’t anti-war because it’s a war novel

>I will pre-empt your response and tell you that the author's intention doesn't matter at all, because it relates to the death of the author.
My little Yea Forums can't be this retarded.

You know hypocrisy isn't the be all end all of conversation right?
A smoker telling you that smoking is bad for your lungs might make him a hypocrite but it sure as hell doesn't make him wrong.

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What makes the creator's interpretation more valid than mine? Please explain why in full detail.

>and it doesn't work with political parodies like the Colbert Report,
now hold the fuck up, the Colbert Report is very transparent-- the news items they present and how they frame it will unquestionably leave the audience thinking or at least asking questions in line with the showrunners' thought. you can argue that people will gloss over RoboCop as being cool but Colbert is not nearly as subtle.

Because jap politics aren’t whiny, moronic, and petty like making sure half the cast are trans. They are far less tacked on too, usually the basis for the story.

But what I find amusing is how these deep thinkers who love politics in games routinely have the most shallow and partisan interpretation of these politics.

Ff7 is a good example. It’s not just corporatism being blamed but the entire urbanite setting and lifestyle. It’s the megacity of midgar which is really killing the planet. The eart around it is desolate, it’s a horrible place to live, it drains the youth from the cozy villages where people live far more hanroniously with their surroundings, etc etc

But lefties tend to live in cities so they ignore that aspect, that the rural is depicted as superior.

All Quiet on the Western Front isn't full of anime action figures meticulously fondling weapons and striking poses. If All Quiet on the Western Front was written like Rambo First Blood part II it's message would have been greatly muddied. It is an insult to All Quiet on the Western Front that you would compare Kojima's writing to it.

You're asking about intent.
>If you can prove that any themes in FF7 weren't created solely for the purpose of being an entertainment vehicle,
This is talking about author intent. About the creators and in what manner they chose to create it. You're not talking about interpretation in this sentence, you're talking about author intent...

Because when we say politics, we mean identity politics specifically.

>the pleasing images will make more of an impact than the message will

This is interesting. I always thought the excuse “the product clearly depicts this lifestyle as bad, if you think it did a bad job you’re just confused” cop out I always hear used against concerned parents groups was just a lame excuse. Having cake and eating it too

There are politics in Japanese games but there isn't a woke political agenda they're trying to push

The point is that the purpose of Colbert Report was to mock conservative ideology and make it look foolish. However, many people enjoyed it as a hyperbolous depiction of things that they enjoyed or agreed with such as patriotism or conservative ideology. Many self described republicanists or conservatives reported enjoying the Colbert Report, finding it's absurdists depictions amusing.

In an audio visual medium, imagery is particularly potent. This is why passive aggressive commentary or just passive commentary in general is not nearly as effective in such mediums.

Please see Also there is a difference between allegory in your game's story and making the characters ugly to try to impress feminists who don't even buy games.

cringe

Yeah because you can totally compare Shinra to actual real life corporations. Completely 100% legitimate comparison. I know I hate when McDonald's sends the Roboguards after me.

That and what people also mean is badly written hamfisted propaganda with shitty forced allegories. Half of these people can't write for shit, and if FFVII was written by modern western writers, it would be the most cringe shit ever.

damn dude you can't even into hyperbole? are you an american per chance?

It's not very videogames in here.

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>gets BTFO
>"u-ur american"

based retard

A better comparison would be modern oil companies who cooperate with military regimes to get their black gold.

yeah, so there are allusions to mako and oil. Shinra is the big bad, yet they're really cool and I like them. if this is "inserting politics into games" then feel free.

This actually is video games, for once.

I notice that people naturally have affection for even absurd depictions kf certain things: loyalty, patriotism, heroism, duty, etc.

It’s why Colonel quaritch is the most memorable character in Avatar, as a random example

You vierziger make me sick

I think in AC Barrett reports that he found a big oil field. This being when shinra is done for and mako production is probably at the lowest levels possible.
Is oil their equivalent of green energy? If so that would be hilarious

An alcoholic telling you alcohol is bad for you doesn't make him wrong, you absolute smooth brain retard.

Why do lefties like cities when FF7 depicts cities as the driving force for the problem while small towns are more or less okay?

I don't think most people are in denial that Japanese games get political. Like you'd have to be a genuine dribbling retard to play a Metal Gear Solid game and miss all the political stuff.

When people bemoan western games for being "too political" it's more because it comes across less like they actually have a point to make or something that is relevant to the story they are telling, and more like they just want to spout buzzwords like "fuck drumpf" or "trans rights."

lectures in games are lame, ok?

Difference being that Shinra reactors are pollution times 20 while actual real life Nuclear reactors are relatively clean.
The only waste they produce is spent nuclear fuel which we can reprocess many times over before having to be stored and the total amount stored is not a lot of space.
Other than that they don't fuck with the environment at all and are easily our best source of energy, yet people watch movies and think nuclear reactors can explode just like a nuclear weapon.

Remember kids, this is Yea Forums. People here read Lord of the Flies in high school and came out thinking how cool it would be to be king of the island and how much Piggy deserved it. People on Yea Forums intentionally read their own beliefs in anything to not have to face any kind of schism between their thoughts, however much cognitive dissonance they're composed of. If something is so blatant that it can't be read into, it's just labeled with a buzzword, as if that succeeds in doing away with the problem.

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Most people have a strong, primordial desire for all of those things. Sometimes when it comes to the "types" who often write scripts, what are seeing is a clash of perception. What the writer sees as reprehensible, their audience sees as desirable and good. The irony is that for many ancient societies, the sort of hyperbole that Hollywood often utilizes to mock certain ideas is the form of depiction that those societies would use to exalt those very same ideas. Why do you think people will enjoy memes such as pic related? What can you say to guilt someone who isn't sorry about their people or their history? No depiction can defeat that.

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because we were all like 9 when we played FF7?

Japanese are better at integrating politics without it coming off as ham fisted. Americans just sort of bludgeon you with their views at any given opportunity.

You have to understand that Japanese people consider it bold and in some cases rude to talk about politics openly. "keep the peace" and whatnot.

I live in Japan and Japs always say they have mixed feelings about how open Americans are with discussing politics. On one hand they envy being able to be so open, but on the other they find it really off-putting and needlessly divisive.

The problem is meta-level politics where the writers target their own players, rather than sticking to politics within the setting of the game.

You could make a game where the plot was literally MtFs and illegals teaming up to overcome their differences and beat up Trump and still have it be a fun game, provided you focused on making the game good. What fucks everything up is telling the player something instead of showing it.

E.g. a member of your party tells you he wants to become a woman. You get the following dialogue options:
>yay!
>you go girl!
>I accept you
>let's get a beer to celebrate
The fuckup here isn't the tranny, it's breaking the rules of "show don't tell". If the writer wanted to make a political point about trans rights it would be a lot more effective to have the player see a trans NPC get curbstomped outside a bar.

They sound whipped desu. Must be extra absolute goddamn hell to be any kind of a minority there.

Why cant you pretentious WHITOIDS understand that FF7 is trying to convey both of these things?

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Because American politics are personal and Japanese politics are in a lofty and exotic space that have little to do with western politics. It's a selective thing shitty people do to try to excuse their fear and hatred.

Politics in japanese games is very different from politics in western """games""".

>all corporarions are the same
There are plenty of hippy companies out there that donate to charities or have social responsibility programs.

Sure, somewhere, but if we're talking Fortune 500 then their donations are pennies on the dollar.

>Implying you wouldn’t want to be king of your own island

Politics in Japanese games are usually sensible and written with some fucking subtlety.
Politics in Western games are typically blatantly hypocritical, fucktarded and aggressively shoved in your face with as much hostility as can be managed.

In addition politics in Japanese games is typically just there to drive the plot along to make story excuses for gameplay.
In western games, gameplay is secondary to politics. The purpose is the political message and the game is just set dressing.

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Next time just type out "Jpn good west bad" since it's much shorter while being just as insightful.

That's probably why Japan has a stigma of being slow to change

At the same time they're a homogenous bunch and "extreme" views don't seem to be particularly common.

And even if they where, they wouldn't be argued in the most retarded way possible.

>"I believe abortion is a regrettable, but necessary procedure in order to ensure the well-being of women"

VS.

>"SHOUT [clap emoji] YOUR [clap emoji] ABORTION [clap emoji] YEETUS DELETUS THIS FEETUS FROM ME UTEREETUS YASSSSS QUEEEENNNNNNN"

This extremely accurate

What exactly is corporatism?

>only include politics that conform to my world views!!!!

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“Jpn good west bad” is far more insightful than any of the politics found in modern AAA games.

You're absolutely right. This thread should have died with that being the first and last reply.
Though, it's not necessarily Japan itself that's good, but the way/method Japan does things is.

A misspelling of capitalism

Weebs just aren't interested in games featuring "politics" that ultimately boil down to nothing more than hot takes that belong on Twitter.

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>”War is bad” and “Be nice to people” is a rightwing world view
At least you admit it.

The first three add to the artistry of the game. The last one detracts from it while also being historical editing which is fucking vile from any front.

But it doesn't say that, it says Shinra is bad for the planet.

what part of the oil industry was the game criticizing when cloud was beating aeris? Or what about the part when sephiroth throws the limb of a space-faring alien that blends in with the planets inhabitants until they're all assimilated by her? Or that Sephiroth thinks its his mother but its really Jenova speaking through him? Or what about when Red XIII is being forced to breed with Aeris?

>based retardbro

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If you talk about the environmentalist themes of FFVII and not how cool Cloud/Sephiroth is or how you want to fuck Tifa's brains out, you're a virgin.

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uh, excuse me, sir, what was the theme of the game during the hover-bike minigame? hmm? clearly there are no messages at all then! huff

>Halo 3
Explain what they meant by this

I'm just curious, no need to get so womanly around me jeez

>You claim that this piece of fiction has themes, and yet they're not being displayed 24/7. Interesting.

allowing regulatory capture

>you know who's REALLY propagating war, the people who criticise it
let me guess, you're a Steven Crowder fan right?

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Well, what do they mean?

I don't think he's saying that accidental propaganda vidya are causing imperialism, dawg.

They aren't, retarded SJWs just confuse a game being political with a game having political themes.
FF7 was against corporatism and totalitarianism. FF7 did not have a transparent caricature of a real life big oil exec.

It's not that people don't want politics in games, they just don't want retarded californian politics that they beat you over the head with in games.

I bet none of you faggots can name an oil company other than BP without looking them up.

the Covenant are literally religious extremists (more obvious in 2)

What is your reasoning for claiming that Squaresoft is leftist

why would you even care?

You don't own a car?

why didn't you name one?

Wesson. Checkmate.

And despite that, Shinra wasn't even the main enemy of the game, and in fact were also battling the nigga who really was going to destroy the planet.

There are other political ideas beyond "Women and minorities should get free stuff and respect, and any facts or opinions which discourage this should be banned."
For instance, you could discuss how the modern banking system creates money as debt out of thin air and how changes in interest rates by privately owned central banks create cycles of boom and bust which inevitably result in the average person becoming less prosperous while the banks gain greater control of society's resources.
You could also discuss how encouraging children to pursue hobbies of promiscuous sex or careers in prostitution might not be a good idea, or how trying to affect a child's mind with drugs or coercion in order to prepare them for this sexual lifestyle might be harmful to them.
You could also suggest that hiring adult to build infrastructure for the future rather than having them stay unemployed might make them happier in addition to more productive.

There are tons of political stances out there that are good, neutral, or with both positives and negatives. You don't have to go for the whole "bans for opposing forced diversity" thing.

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Shinra experiments created Sephiroth.

That you got a single (You) within the first hour of your post should be indicative of how off the mark that was.

Because Japan does political themes well. It's not an LGBT flag plastered in the middle of a platformer for the purposes of a map designer showing you how progressive they are.
If there's a political message in a japanese game, the game is made with that message in mind instead of having the tranny NPC in dragon age that you couldn't kill and you could only congratulate on being so strong and so brave.

Maybe we would have got the message if it wasn't in such broken Engrish.

They're not. Why are you in perpetual denial that people have been forcing identity politics into modern games because it's currently a really shitty fad?

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FFVII posits that coal and oil is a better alternative to mako. Sorry, it doesn't have an environmentalist message, it has a gnostic one.

/thread

Only thing I remember is how awesome Sephiroth was and how cool Shinra was.

Wasn't it about Jenova, which is like The Thing, destroying the planet?

Why do people keep making these images? What kind of egotist do you have to be to watch gundam or play FF7 or whatever and automatically think you're the only one who understood the message?

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If we're talking the average donation from private citizens then that's also pennies on the dollar, so at least corporations are consistent with individuals.

Yeah, there's absolutely no way of missing the message of Gundam yet idiots think they're smart for pointing at it.

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Not proportionally.

American's culture is just so steeped in politics that everything has to be absolutely overflowing and in your face about it's political themes. The politics in western games, especially modern ones can never be "under the surface" anymore while japanese ones continue to be broad and just a part of the story rather than the focus.

The kind of egotist that makes images for clicks on social media

So, it's a game about the dangers of Science and Progress.

Nope. but its fine that you think that.

Because they're too oppressed by society to be able to learn how to live in society.

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I wish I knew. Best guess is that liberals feel like they can't force their dogma without a Trojan horse.

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It's 3-5%, less if you take out """donations""" to shit like meme preachers and cult leaders. How much is a penny, again?

The theme of FF7 was moving on actually.

What are the political themes of Devil May Cry? All i got from it was a story about family and acceptance.
What are the political themes of Resident Evil aside from "evil corporation bad"?
Where are the anti-monarchy messages in Super Mario?
Where's the political messages in Katamari Damacy?
Fucking americans can't get politics out of their heads, it's honestly unhealthy.

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>Where's the political messages in Katamari Damacy?
Globalism

We're not talking about those games. Also lol that you still chose to include Resident Evil instead of picking something else even when you identified a very clear theme.

To the fucking weirdos, these things are political. Everything you just listed is a politics discussion because everything in society is now a political struggle for them.
Family? politics.
Corporations? Politics
Super Mario? Politics.

I'm not making this up, either.
archive.fo/rdoiH

I thought everything was political, what changed? 'Oh we're not talking about those games' now?

the overall message wasn't that corporatism was bad for the planet, it was the fact that a business made the fucking lifeblood of the planet an energy source to light your stove over anything else, which was killing the planet. making cheap snacks, alcohol and cigarettes and shit was fine. killing the planet was not because then you fucking kill everyone on it.

if you argue it's an allegory for climate change or some global warming shit you're injecting your own politics where they aren't to try to make it about something it's not.

mutts have nothing in their lives but hobby, work, and politics

>Explain what they meant by this
Note how it doesn't say 9/11 but "post-9/11" that might help you understand

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Where the fuck did you read any of that you fucking mongoloid?

>Cloud SELLS HIS SERVICES for money
>the LAS VEGAS parallel is a fun and good place
>he thinks FFVII is anti-capitalism
???

everyone on Yea Forums would be Piggy desu

154th post, best post.

Gundam doesn't have one clear message. It posits that war is hell, but that the sides involved have their legitimate reasons for the conflict, and that while war is costly it's the inevitable result of people with ambitions and values that are both valid but which cannot both co-exist.
Nobody in Gundam is "The Hero" and nobody's really the villain either, but nonetheless there is conflict and people die.

Unless they changed it in the newer seasons which I did not watch.

/thread

Says you nerd, now go fetch my conch.

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"being apolitical" means upholding the status quo, which is a specific political position. so yes, not having a pointed political theme doesn't mean aspects of a game aren't a spawn of politics.

Because politics in Jap games is often anti-imperialism or anti-(((corporatism))) which are reasonable causes all normal men can stand behind. Political shit in modern american games is literally degenerate lgbt and tranny crap.

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That kind of approach is the best, a creator that tries to frame anything as purely black and white isn't going to tell a compelling story if that's their goal.

Imagine being unironically this retarded you fail to read text. Do you think game stories are written in a vacuum?

Game's about Sephiroth becoming a god

>conflating nuanced incorporation of political themes and imagery with aggressively condescending agenda pushing
Get fucked, faggot.

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I'd say a number of gundam incarnations have pretty clear-cut bad guys, whether they're representative of their side or not.

>cloud was beating aeris
>Red XIII is being forced to breed with Aeris

Based. I hope they keep both these parts in the remake.

>"being apolitical" means upholding the status quo, which is a specific political position.
Fuck off, maybe no one cares about your shitty attempt to change all of society to fit your retarded ends.

>REEE THE STATUS QUO IS BAD *chops off balls, acts depressed on twitter, dies of overdose at 30

Guys listen to me here.

What if the planet
Was sentient
And the planet
Decided that the only way to secure its own existence and interests was through power
and stay with me here
The planet sees that corporations are a way for powerhungry individuals to obtain a lot of control over those they view as their lessers
So the planet decides
TO START ITS OWN CORPORATION

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you need to think along more than one axis my dude, because some games don't engage in politicals at all.

what political status quo does mario kart uphold? ...monarchy? really?

I don't know what's sadder: Your firm assertion that a game can't contain fantasy, humor AND a politically charged message as if there's some kind of hard limit, or the people so desperate to cling to their juvenile belief that games from "their time" weren't political that they flock to agree with your half-assed point just because it comes off as vaguely authoritative.

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This kind of mentality is why modern western culture and discourse is so poisonous and hostile.

>"being apolitical" means upholding the status quo
No, it doesn't. "Upholding the status quo" is beyond the power of the average American.

Mario RPG was about the military industrial complex.

wow, you're really smart because you use a lot of big words

Politics are alright, just not the gay ones.

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why did she spell cocksleeve

>Do you think game stories are written in a vacuum?

No, but your Marxism-addled retardation can't handle the fact that sometimes people produce media that isn't overt propaganda and is therefore possible to interpret through multiple lenses.

That's what happens when the Christ figure of your political religion openly says his "theories" are tautological but people still follow him because they're thick.

Why are Jap games so much better at handling political messages than American games?

youtube.com/watch?v=iMBpgqHmfmc

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>REEEEEEEEEEEEE I'M A BILLIONAIRE BUT I STILL THINK MY PENIS IS TOO SMALL *chops up penis, dies in surgery*

Imagine having your head so far up your own ass that you get triggered by this image.

Who is actually in control, though? Sephiroth or Jenova? Or are they the same thing now?

>anyone who disagrees with me is a marxist

Shut the fuck up moron. You are literally too stupid to play adult video games. Go back to your mario bing bing wahoo shit.

>EVEN NOT BEING INVOLVED IS BEING INVOLVED
>proceeds to get involved in every retarded political row imaginable
>WHY AM I SO DEPRESSED AND HATED?!

Trying to force people to pick a side will often mean that they will side against you. This is why there are so many 'shitlords' around.

>joel shooting the words "utilitarianism is a spook"
>fan: WHOA COOL LESBIANS

Because it's not the most important thing about their games.

Western games make it so forced that it's impossible to ignore.

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Exactly the kind of response one would expect from an everything-is-political fag.

Exxon.

>brainlets can't accept fantasy fiction can contain a real life message
Like you have to be willingly blind if the environmental theme is not pushed in FF7. Mother 3 is another game with a similar message and it has a lot of comedy AND outlandish creatures and places.

But I guess it is too hard for /pol/ brainlets.

>the same people who bitch about "politics in games" probably say nothing about the largest game series in the US being nothing more than overt american indoctrination propaganda

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>REEEEEE WE NEED TO FORCE EVERYONE TO BECOME EXTREMIST TO FIGHT MUH BILLIONARES *forces country to starve, lined up against wall, shot

Both, sort of.

Okay but what the sauce?

in games that bareboned there's nothing to it but "uh, all the human characters are white. can't we be a little inclusive?" pretty boring

don't be afraid of new ideas. detractors seem to be a lot more hostile in my experience. death threats and slurs. so very mad.

Imagine being so accustomed to seeking out political imagery you ultimately miss the point of not only video games but also an edit of a comic that's poking fun at people just like you.

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Joel is literally a villain though.

I don't think "spook" is the word you're looking for.

>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEALTHCARE IS NOT A RIGHT *thousands die easily preventable deaths due to inability to pay*

It's more that japanese devs aren't always crying about politics during interviews or on social media. Making media with a political statement is fine, being absolutely obsessed and childish about it isn't

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Everybody knows that already faggot, you're globalhomo agenda is still gay and unwanted.

>this

>"y-you think everything is political!"
>"disagree with me? you're a marxist!"

kys

>Everybody knows that already faggot,

yet the same people that complain about lgbt-tranny politics being hamfisted into games never seem to bitch and whine about overt US propagandism being hamfisted into games to encourage kids to sign up to the military.

With metal gear specifically it's because they have an "outside" perspective on American and Western politics and don't have a "stake" in either side. In metal gear the only political stuff you might be able to directly trace to the Japanese perspective might be the anti-nuclear stuff.

>"uh, all the human characters are white. can't we be a little inclusive?"
uh, sweaty, what about diddy kong?

>detractors seem to be a lot more hostile in my experience
Wew, is this faggot gonna start lecturing other people about their "hostility"?

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good

>REEEEE SOCIETY WOULD BE BETTER IF WE ALL JUST BECAME SOCIALISTS
>NO NOT THAT KIND
>YOU HAVE TO BE POLITICAL BUT ONLY IF ITS THE POLITICS I LIKE
In a way I wish you would succeed just so you would be first against the wall.

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piggy DID deserve it wtf

I hate both because I hate trannies and I hate israel

x)

i'm not the one calling names for starters

>one of the main in the game is literally a giant corporation that is destroying the planet and environment to make electricity
>"IT'S NOT SOME MESSAGE AT ALL LMAO JUST TURN YOUR BRAIN OFF AND HAVE FUN BING BING WAHOOO"

t. reddit tranny

>people dying is bad
lmao

Because that fad is over and now globalhomo is the new hotness. It's not 2005, John Stewart hot takes are stale and not topical.

the main what?

Based and "Story in vidya is like story in porn"pilled

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>It's not political because I said so

Okay, buddy but it's still part of the plot.
Just because the message is obvious and isn't some kind of 4deep2u narrative doesn't invalidate anything.

You can still think that Cloud was a fucking badass and get the message. It wasn't that complicated after all.
I agree that most might not remember much from the plot after years though

This is the most intelligent post in this thread.

So what was the point of the bit about about people starving and being lined up against walls and shot?

You're entire world view is boxing people into an "us vs them" situations and creating political participants where there are none so getting hot and bothered about "hostile" reactions is quite ironic.

The only good Republican is a dead Republican.

Isn't part of Sephiroth's motivation/downfall because he deems humanity as unworthy or some other shit?

that's also good

FF7 just substitutes a megacorporation for the evil empire in Final Fantasy 6. And like that game, by the end you're on the same side.

>Art cannot morally or politically contradict itself

pleb

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The incredibly obvious is barreling down the tracks and is about to collide with I AM SILLY. I AM SILLY could potentially move off the tracks but in doing so would cease being silly and therefore cause the entire hypothetical situation to collapse.
If you switch the tracks, the incredibly obvious will go 5 layers of irony deep and become so silly that, in comparison, the baseless anecdotes on the other track will appear sane in comparison and vanish. However, this will hide the incredibly obvious from further people down the line who may not be as well-versed in irony, and potentially deprive them of a trolley dilemma.
Do you pull the lever?

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t. ulster loyalist

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>You're entire world view is boxing people into an "us vs them" situations
what world view is that?

Because the vast majority of them aren't political.
Political Japanese games absolutely exist.
But then there are the majority that are more about selling a product by making a competently made game.
Everything in the world isn't high concept.
Low concept exists.
You should be able to conceive of low concept but instead the world is inundated with pseudointellectuals who want to make 500 page essays on the moral ramifications of children books and what they all "really mean".
A western developer would have made the environmentalism the actual focal story of the game instead and dropped everything with Aerith i.e.
>Antient aliens, bio-weapons and crystallized magic

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I appreciate honesty, nothing more two faced than a leftist "humanitarian". You already carry more honor with your transparency.

>gundam doesn't have a clear message

Build a society that thinks it is hot shit and can never lose a war, then get bodied and your ego ruined.

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CoD4 was a game about western imperialism, extrajudicial torture and execution, the incompetence of the marine corp, the psychopathy of the SAS, and how the "heroes" are terrible people who caused all their own problems. I have no idea how the rest of the series ruined itself so badly.

It can, just don't get upset if people don't take away what you want them to take away from it.

Build TWO of such societies though and we're jumping onto white base! Aaaaa.

the one where you're so obsessed with politics you post about it on a basket-weaving forum.

>Although the dialogue and messaging goes something like "war is bad m'kay" the tone and attention of the lens fetishizes militarism at every turn, every other conversation and scenario framing basically is fantasy military porn.

Same can be said about Ace Combat.

>"War is horrible and needless and causes lots of suffering on all sides! Now fly this cool experimental jet and bomb that separatist convoy trying to defend its land so you can take their supplies."

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The one where
>"being apolitical" means upholding the status quo

The last one is just about using WW2 as an inspiration kinda like KanColle. I mean it's obvious when they use stupid phrases like "our take on history". I mean we could come up with a webcomic set in some historic era and it doesn't have to be historically accurate. I haven't played BFV so I can't talk about its message in the story or if it even has any. The whole playable female character drama is fucking annoying desu. I mean playable female characters is nothing new so I don't get why it's so important to have games with them. We already have them. Feels more like some suits asked for that for easy PR
The politicization/motivation is also different. The first three games is about the message in the story/game while BFV is more about not being historically accurate and the devs/EA being dodgy about it.

For God and Ulster

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having politics in games is not the same as making a game to send a political message

To be fair, your opinion on war crimes will be different depending on whether you're the target or you're the bomber.

>basic morality is politicizing

Politics is for losers and if you care for that gay shit I'm gonna dab on your pussy ass.

Will Yea Forums ever accept that pretty much all of their "based" Japanese devs are left leaning?

FUCK YOU FUCK YOU LET ME ENJOY SILLY VIDYA

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Not if I have anything to say about it.
And I do!
I'm going to say the "C" word.

Cunt?

when will Americans accept they aren't left leaning?

Protip: Bullet is actually an allegory for the middle class. The gun is money. The guy is GAMERS.

Left leaning for a Japanese dev means a strong family, a strong respect for society, but the yearning and striving for individual freedom.
Perfectly sane, reasonable viewpoints to have instead of "MY FEMININE PENIS DEMANDS PROTECTION AND RESPECT"

This is why Ace Combat 4 is the best one. You start on the brink of annihilation, so you are entirely justified in fucking Erusia's shit up. The only people in that game crying about war are the Erusians who are shitting their pants when they see you in the sky. God, it's wonderful.

Remember when the brits were buttblasted about some faggots in the desert wanting to sell the oil instead of giving away for free in order to feed their people and asked the USA do help them to destroy their democracy and install some asshat puppet on top?
I mean the USA decided it would be pretty stupid and wanted to stop at the last minute but then some glownigger agent disobeyed order and started the operation Ajax anyways

those don't sound like worldviews

FFVII's environmentalist messages are the worst and most boring part of its narrative.

When will people realise the entire idea of left and right is archaic and basing your political beliefs on an arbitrary scale is pointless.

C E N T R I S T

It's more than left vs right, it's authoritarian vs libertarian, too.
Americans can't accept that they're authoritarian as fuck and the rest of the world just wants to live free of their insane power fantasies. It just happens to come out under the guise of absurdly polarized politics.

Yes because if I had to place myself in either left wing or right-wing, I'd probably pick left-wing. I hate american globalism and militarism, the only thing I disagree with the left on is their lgbt and sjw crap.

Probably the only one that didnt tbqh

That's not cunt.

This. Based Japan taking the piss out of westerners and their bullshit politics(anything left wing) as usual.

It's not that they aren't political, it's that they're a lot better at subtlety. Western games always go the "THIS ISN'T DONALD TRUMP THIS IS MY OWN ORIGINAL CHARACTER, BLONALD BRUMP. HE KILLS BLACK PEOPLE AND HATES THE JEWS ORANGE MAN BAD" route. Also Japanese games are fun and western ones aren't

"Left leaning" Japanese are also ethnocentric and carry a strong cultural identity and respect for tradition. So if they're "left leaning" they're the best kind of left leaning that is literally illegal to advocate for in the majority of first world countries.

Yea Forums might be a low IQ board due to the common audience but it doesn't mean there is never any discussion here.
Sure, there are often retarded posts, some even more retarded analogies/hyperboles but that's just part of this place.

Not them but there you go, you're just proving me completely correct with every post.
The more you try to force people to take a side, the more people side against you. Only Kalemales would side with a person threatening them.

How would a modern AAA western studio tackle FF7's underlying themes, Yea Forums? With heaps of subtlety, yeah?

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Why are you trannies in perpetual denial about being biologically male?

"Everything is political" is a foundational aspect of Marxism

Stop letting tens of different partners make unprotected contact with it, then. Half of these womens rights gay rights trans rights things are really just disloyal promiscuous slut rights, and fuck that.

Bad news: If you're not on board with the LGBT and SJW crap, you're basically alt-right hitler.
Fiscally liberal is the most genius idea in the world if you can rationalize it with being socially conservative. Otherwise you get the abomination that is American politics.

That's an interesting conversation starter.

Dude, look that sword!!!

Ah yes, the first whyboner I can ever remember was that part of the game

Remember kids, as dumb as Yea Forums is: The 'enlightened' spaces are even worse.
That's why you're here forever.

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I prefer to think of it as a conversation ender.
Conversations require more than one participant, or else they're just monologues.
Good way to start a monologue though.

You're acting as if I don't agree with you, but the problem at its core is the attack on the family unit.
'Family' in America is a bad word, because it implies gender roles and certain outlooks toward society. Basically anyone who tries to undermine it should be thrown off a cliff, IMO

There are many corporations that exist solely for eco compliance and innovating to new products and services that have a more desirable eco impact...

I disagree, that cliff might have children who don't need to be exposed to deaths that (to the cliff) appear senseless. Better to just throw them into San Francisco.

pewds is reading fascist authors and it's a great thing to see. unfortunately none of those listed are fascist.

forcing people to take a side?

WHAT IS THE EIGHTH AMENDMENT.

Well I called it a starter because we could then ask what the bomber thinks and what the target thinks, and compare. The bomber is probably thinking OH FUCK THIS IS SO COOL I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY'RE REALLY LETTING ME FLY THIS THING

>This isn't as much of an indictment as you think it is because MGS is hypocritical with it's depiction of militarism. Although the dialogue and messaging goes something like "war is bad m'kay" the tone and attention of the lens fetishizes militarism at every turn, every other conversation and scenario framing basically is fantasy military porn.

I think it's emotion vs reason.

Kojima just think that military stuff is SO COOL! on one level, the emotional. Then his rational brain kicks in: war and death is bad. So he presents these contradictory messages at once. He's trying to have it both ways, as a kind of "guilt free" experience. He promotes his war heroism fantasy, but then adds some grit and anti-war sentiment to make it palatable.

What's this Jordan Peterson book about?

I can see this, sorta like how when the Clinton vs Trump rap made Trump look cooler to me.

youtube.com/watch?v=Kbryz0mxuMY

Me on the left.

Cleaning your room. Washing your penis.

>Bad news: If you're not on board with the LGBT and SJW crap, you're basically alt-right hitler.

That's why I hate the left/right dichotomy and often don't place myself on either side. If I'm forced to choose however, I'd pick left wing, because I'm definitely economically leftwing and lean towards democratic socialism, even though I happen to be socially right wing and support Christian values and strong family values. If I had to describe my views, I'd say they are pretty much identical to those of the Catholic Church and Pope Francis.

But it seems neither the left wing or right wing in the western world cares any more about that. The left wing has become the party of abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage, and globalism and doesn't give a shit about working or middle class anymore; the right wing has become the party of militarism, international banks and ripping off the middle class, and doesn't care about family values or Christian morals anymore. That's why I don't really care for the left-right dichotomy anymore.

This thread proves OP's point. Gamers are the dumbest demographic in the world.

probably lobsters

You are aware that there isn't just a left/right and it can be very different in another country?
Also there is more to it than just left/right, just because you're conservative/rightwing doesn't mean you're a Neonazi who wants to establish an ethnostate

Left-leaning in the west doesn't mean to be all for advocating chopping balls off either, even rightwing politicians in the US are more about "live and let live" which means if you want to live as a mutilated faggot, go ahead, you're free.
Left-leaning fags don't think of the okay-sign/circle game as some kind of racist symbol either and think it's retarded

What if instead of using military stuff for war and death, we use it for wargames and training sessions that are tricked-out over the top bullshit and spectacular?
Or would the people inside the Kojimaverse then realise that in their war simulations, people are dying purely for the sake of technology that they are hoping to NEVER be used, and thus the message of cool explosions is completely at odds of their goal of preventing said cool explosions?

Also Ocelot is ported to Virtual Reality and VROcelot infects people's minds with memes.

ah, to be young again

It's been clear to me for awhile that gamers are the dumbest consumers in the world. They eat up every corporate decision despite all the complaining or pushback you might think you're observing.

euthanasia? who gives a rat's ass about euthenasia? meanwhile one of the dem frontrunners just proposed a usury cap. your "neither side care bout poor" line is tiresome.

Not true, look at Yea Forums.

> who gives a rat's ass about euthenasia?
The rat.

Gamers are rising up though and we will prevail no matter how much you try to keep us down.

>who gives a rat's ass about killing people

Contrary to what idiots want others to believe, it's just a self-help book to get your life somewhat on track, like a healthy sleep schedule and cleaning your shit.

I can somewhat get behind Peterson being considered alt-right but the other two? Come on.
And since when is reading books a meme?
Isn't it just some jap author who wanted to give back power to the emperor or something like that?

>meanwhile one of the dem frontrunners just proposed a usury cap

who was this?

So are we just going to ignore that Square Enix is basically Shinra?

Mishima is right up there with Evola as far as fascism goes.

>One day you'll see, kiddo

I'm 26

how many life milestones have you hit?

Colonel Sanders. 15%.

because politics in Japanese games are the most blatant heavy-handed shit and always preach extremely obvious morals that nearly everyone can agree with regardless of their political beliefs. it's not interesting or enlightening.

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>people tell you to fuck off when you want video games to tackle your woke feminism/lgbt/racial issues
>counter with "B-BUT YOUR FAVORITES GAMES HAVE POLITICS T-TOO"

pathetic

where's your argument, gramps

That's not a bad thing

I never read the novels or why that Swede likes them.
You can like stuff others created even though you don't agree with their views and all their messages I guess

He never said this.

DESU shinra was more socialist than anything

Red Alert is identity politics?

Well, you know if, when, how you when you go to Clean your room that, there's a tiger in the back of your head telling you "Stop", and when, cause you feed that tiger and you don't let it rest it starts to GROW, and so when, as a white male in society, you're faced with this tremendous Beast of Anger and Judgement that you've grown in your head and there's no way out of that, then what do you do? You can't go back, your room's still dirty. So you're trapped in a pit of neuroses between your own bad options.

>Please only include politics that don't make me feel uncomfortable
Yea Forums is full of babies

Tbh I agree with a lot of his economic and foreign policies, I just can't get past his social policies or the fact that he's Jewish.

>Didn't act
>End up living in a different world anyway
fml

What's actually sad is that people are buying this shit up.
>Hey I think your political endorsement is fucking embarrassing on multiple levels
>OH YEAH REMEMBER WHEN MGS2 COVERED MAINSTREAM MEDIA CONVERGING WITH SOCIAL MEDIA?

What's worse is that it's being perpetuated by people who don't even play these games.

Nah they were a monopoly. It's just when a monopoly gets so large, they effectively resemble a large government in terms of their functions and practices.

Joel is a good guy. Fuck society and its BS. Fight fo yourself because no one else will.

>No no, when I said "I don't want politics in my games", I meant "I'm fine with politics, just not gay people".

If you can't tell the difference between inserting lies in to actual historical events and fucking kantai collection then I don't even know what the fuck to do with you.

Mishimas messages are inherently fascist and Pewds did strongly resonate with them. It's not a bad thing to be a fascist.

Agreed

it isn't when you have good gameplay, art, action, basically all the reasons people actually play Japanese games.

All fucking idiots, they will unironically say "i don't want politics in my video games" when they own a Solid Snake figurine or something. Its ridiculous.

>Nah they were a monopoly
so socialism, got you

He literally massacres a defenceless hospital staff.

Christian conservatism disguised as cleaning your room and washing your penis.

>or the fact that he's Jewish.
you're literally falling for the identity politics meme. he's the most critical of banks/billionaires than all the goys. does this really bother you more than policy?

Yes exactly, I'm glad we got that clarified.

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>Fahrenheit 451
>Alt-Right book
It is a book about a dystopia where people burn books?
Is burning books "progressive" now?

>Cloud giving a single flying fuck about Shinra outside of personal issues
At least replace him with Barret.

People who think Final Fantasy VII is "corporativism is bad" have probably never trully played the game. Everything about Shinra is easily forgotten trought the game, and there's barely a shadow of resolution to it's problem, just like the death of the first president didn't solve it, neither the death of his son will, specially if you consider Advent Children canon, and him still being alive Shinra still strong, Shinra still fucking the planet, and now not even the protagonists care, since they solved their problems, not even Barret does, since he did it out of cope and that will faded away as soon as he solved his personal problems.

Final Fantasy VII is about the MC's mental health problems. And that was something that translated even into the movie, every other interpretation comes from people with not enough brain cells to see beyond the surface.

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You people are absolute lunatics. The difference is that we can tell when a game has a political agenda that exists there to be preached to the player. It's not there for the story, it's there as historical revisionism, to indoctrinate the player. Yet retards like you act like that's the same as a story having politics in it for the sake of story.

fahrenheit one of the basic high school tier anti-establishment books that's easy to read and has a message that can be applied to many ideologies which is why it's lumped in. same with 1984. doesn't mean either of these books are wrong, just that retards love them too.

There is literally nothing wrong with not wanting politics that you hate shoved down your throat.

Peterson isn't a Christian. He's a religious spectator who finds the phenomenon novel.

>A character devoted to exploring the evils of war and the extremes mankind goes to in order to fulfill its desire of it is equivalent to trans propaganda in every western game
get off of Yea Forums.

You don't understand the issue.

Politics are totally acceptable in games as long as they present the entirety of an issue without dehumanizing the opposition and their perspective.
Apart from that, the focus should not be on the political topic itself, but the universal ethics and philosophies that apply to the ideas presented. Artist like Andy Warhol (not a fan personally) make political messages that are able to be understood at any period of time and his work is still relevant because of it. Of course there's a bias involved, but it's not shaming anyone for having a different perspective either.

Redpill me on the halo plot and how it's political, I've never played one.

>be american
>visit the doctor
>have to tip
>tip him 5.56

He literally claimed to be Christian

I genuinely don't understand how books about anti establishment are fascist.
What does fascist even mean to these people anymore?

Thats because the corporations pay both sides to be on their side. They didnt give a shit about social issues because it didnt matter. They pretended to be socially right in the 80s to make sure they won, but did nothing to advance social causes. They sacrificed those issues in congressional compromises so they could get sweet tax cuts. Now they are with the left and force them to side with republicans on finance so they get their leftist social issues passed that the sjws want so much. Leftist social issues also get them more cheap labor. Corporations are one step ahead, and will never let the middle class truly prosper again. That is why many people want accelerationism and a collapse. It might be the only way to break the corporations stanglehold.

>Cloud beating aeris
Bitches gotta get put in their place, or else they'll go running off ahead doing whatever they please and getting poked from behind by some bad boy.
>Red XIII is being forced to breed with Aeris
Hojo is an altruistic environmentalist and nature preservationist. He's just trying to get two endangered species to repopulate for the good of the world, as any good and noble man would strive for.

Grow up, literally the mindset of a child.

Are you implying FF7 has some deep message or something?

The environmentalism takes a sideline to trauma induced vengeance with undertones of Gnosticism and Norse mythology.

Who gives a shit. It was his happiness or theirs.

wat's the Norse mythology?

Makes me think of Brave New World and some fagmo in a turtleneck jacking off into a copy going
>I wish I could be banished to the Falkland Islands with the most interesting antisocial people in the world instead of being around all these Sheep-le.

they're not fascist, they just fit with a fascist mindset. someone who wants a hitler world can read f451 and go "if only hitler was here, things would be different" and like "this hell world is the fault of lgbt people. must be."

No, he literally attacks a surgeon for brandishing a scalpel at him and whatever happens to the rest of the cowering staff is entirely up to the player's discretion..

This reads like a copypasta so you can go fuck off back to r word

That's why I only play games without plot, like fighting games.

>bringing up trannies again

why are you so obsessed?

>tfw joined military because of mgs
>went into special forces as well
>later joined pmc before mgsV was a thing

shit always makes me smile. Shame there's no such thing as sneaking around like how snake does it, that would be cool .

I don't want to spoil it for you but making Guile a good guy is political. And M Bison is literally an imperialist dictator.

It's because you want to think that they wanted to rewrite history when it was just about having female characters and some other shit in the story of a game that uses WW2 as its setting.

>What does fascist even mean to these people anymore?
You believe that women and minorities should have to earn respect or items by doing stuff that society might value, rather than being owed respect / free stuff due to simply existing.

This leans too hard into one view. The games propagate war as something that shouldn't occur but is so embedded into society because of the poor decisions of people who are long gone. Those who've caused war are not worthy of respect in any way, but once the stone is thrown, there's no going back and someone needs to care and protect the people of their nation when the leaders stop caring.

Honestly though, you're overthinking the series as a whole. MGS started as a tribute to action movies and then he started adding in some symbology for the sake of story elements and eventually he made the philosophy of war the focus of the series to add a sentimental value to the games.

My friend actually did that.
He washed out, but it really was because he liked MGS.

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I'll stop bringing them up when mentally ill americans stop bringing them up.
In everything.

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Sometimes I wonder what Hitler would say if he came to the modern world and saw AutoCAD. He'd probably give up on his dream of being an architectural painter lol

imagine being this triggered by dudes with wigs

I know a guy who joined the military because of MGS and COD.
I guess that is pretty common.

Imagine being this triggered because someone doesn't like dudes in wigs.

Hmm this image that I have recently created seems to have a bit of a color balancing problem. Perhaps I can fix it with some image editing tools.

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>search for thing
>find thing
It's funny to me how you're going out of your way to be offended.

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Ah there we go the colors look much better now.

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if hitler was born today he'd lurk /ic/ 24/7

Yeah, you are pretty triggered.
Hey, i'm going to stop responding, ok user? just because i really care about your mental health.
Stay safe bro.

"ey guys how come all the addons for this software are so expensive?"

Dunno about any of that. You could say that Mishima is also about diddling boys.

>people have opinions
Wow

>having opinions
pretty gay desu.

Any game where the villain seeks for world domination is political.

I think that people in general should be treated with a certain minimum of respect, which doesn't mean that a hobo would be on the same respect level as an honest doctor, just that I wouldn't spit on the hobo's face for no reason

See Comparing “War bad” to “WE WUZ KINGS”/“I’M FUCKING GAY PLEASE ACCEPT MY ATTEMPTS TO SEEK ATTENTION!” is idiotic

Unironically, it is fine when Japan does it. At least they don't beat the topic over your head.

Makes sense. I guess you can't start all the way from negative infinity respect. Even the most respectable person on the planet (who is ZUN, creater of the Touhou series of videogames) wouldn't get positive respect starting from negative infinity.
So you have to start your baseline respect from somewhere.

So I'll change what I said:
In order for women and minorities to get more respect than the average person, they also have to do more stuff that people might like than the average person does.

You realize you are just saying "politics in games is only bad when i disagree with them"?

Breathing is political.

Amerimutt games
>topical, will spoil like milk
>intended to have only one interpretation to its message, don't want people reaching the wrong conclusion after all.
>Hamfisted as fuck, because mutts can't do anything without being obnoxious cunts about it

>Japanese games
>timeless topics, can play the game years later with the message still being on point
>Respects the player's intelligence by allowing personal interpretations
>Message is never so overbearing that it becomes preachy and detracts from the game

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>left
>try to be nice to people
not political

>right
>try to be nice to people, this would include minorities too
political

what?

>"politics in games is only bad when i disagree with them"?
But the comic clearly doesn’t say that at all, you retarded fag. How about actually reading both panels.

nice straw man

>Right
>”PAY US REPARATIONS WHITE BOI! FUCK WHITIES! FUCK BREEDER! AND FUCK ANYONE RIGHT OF CENTER!”*

>dude take my straw man seriously

this

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I'm really proud of the interpretability of Panty Sniffer V. It's so broad. Glorious Nippon.

Yeah but i prefer cute girl politics over cultural marxist jew ones.

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When the definition of the word "nice" changes depending on who you're being nice to, then those two phrases can mean different things.
>newspeak af
I know, but some twitch resetera types unironically do think that niceness means something different depending on who you apply it to.

Q. What if jew but also cute girl?

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Sounds logical. It's not different for men/non-immigrants anyways, at least in most places in the west.
I agree that sometimes it's hard for women/minorities to get the acknowledgment/credit they deserve but that happens to men too and it's never right. But it doesn't mean it's impossible to get it.
Just like there are people who think they deserve more but really don't.

Kinda like when I was playing soccer and one game the opponents coach was yelling "that goalie sucks!" all the time, took me like +60 minutes of nice catches (and shoryukens when a player dared to cross the rine) to make him finally shut up.

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400 replies but no answer. Just more evidence

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I've seen people ask to keep politics out of Metal Gear. I've actually seen it increasingly lately.
Battlefield never aimed for historical accuracy. Not just V, Battlefield. It's fucking Battlefield bro.
>Politics detracts from a Battlefield game because women.
>Figure 1: Meme wars and nanomachines

>Just like there are people who think they deserve more but really don't.
Fuck me, story of my bloody life. There is always SOME angry retard who sucks donkey balls at his job and still insists that he's earned just as much respect as the people who are mildly competent.
They tend to be """"creatives"""" or have "subjective tastes" too, because apparently differences in personal values can make it so one thing isn't overwhelmingly shittier than another thing.
Even if 50% of what you're doing will be viewed differently due to individual interpretation, your work can still be a 50% rancid flaming shitpile worthy only of the bin. "Muh personal preference" in one half of the work doesn't stop the other half from being half-assed dogshit.

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>Identity politics don't matter, but my whiteness is threatened. Conservatives are the new counterculture, BLM are the real racists.

>I've seen people ask to keep politics out of Metal Gear. I've actually seen it increasingly lately
What politics specifically? Take out all the anti-war, anti-nuclear, anti-war economy and you don't have metal gear anymore. I find it hard to believe anyone would say that with a straight face.

Tons of people have said that they don’t deny that politics exists in Japanese games. They just claim Japan does it better than the west.

fun fact:
the specific combo of
Straight (sexual orientation)
White (race)
Male (gender)
is the only combination of those 3 topics that doesn't get you attacked for being racist/sexist

@461966509
Do you even know what we’re even talking about user?
You don’t even deserve a proper [You]

lmao these people will literally get mad at CDPR for saying Cyberpunk is inherently political.

Beats me, but I think they just mean "SJW stuff," whatever that means, usually women. Nothing particular about them, some people for some reason just really don't like seeing them or letting them talk.
HyperBitHero is a dumb fuck though for joining the Air Force because of Metal Gear though, fr. That's some serious WOOSH.

fuck the other user, i will give you a (You) for being right

what does this even mean. every jrpg I've ever played trots its theme around so frequently you'd have to actually try to miss it. here's the truth- you interpret the theme as being "beaten over my head" when the theme is something you disagree with or find alien. when the theme is something you already accept, its easier to miss because you don't read politics into it, but rather "common sense."

Can we just ban American politics?

I see what you mean, but with say the politics in metal gear about anti-nuclear proliferation and anti-war in general I don't see how that isn't "common sense" to literally everyone.

I'm going to print that image out and bury it in my backyard so that long after general purpose computers have been confiscated and the internet has been banned I can dig it up and cherish it.

issue is most American politics is world politics because of their societal influence through world markets and social media and the like. That is aside from super specialized issues like healthcare.

I like to believe they're also the "Ew, it's not night time" commenters.
I see some major dissonance from pasty Trads crusading to preserve "Judeo Christian Western Values and Culture," but when it comes to any contemporary western media, it's all of a sudden degenerate and perverse, to which they often flee to Japanese media in hopes of finding "Honor" and "Traditional values. (Usually just bladed war and domesticated women.)" These folks are foolish enough to throw the baby out with the bath water. Not only then have they abandoned their Western credence, but bonus points if they start defending borderline rapey weeb trash while saying Western culture is poisoned by shallow decadence and infidelity.
"We need to ensure the survival of western culture, but I hate contemporary western culture." It must be a real headache.

but you need to understand that the reason why this is a common sense value nowadays is because of huge amounts of action by prior groups of humans. the modern distrust of war can be easily pointed to vietnam for reference, and the iraq war if you want something more recent. there was a huge amount of discussion historically about why we shouldn't assume good intentions of wars based on real life examples that demonstrated this. there was once a time where "war is bad" wasn't a commonly held value. in the same vein, the modern day social justice stuff is going through the same sort of trial- it is attempting to pass through the path from alien ideal (which appears innately 'political', in other words controversial) to common sense value. many of our common sense values should be distrusted though, im not trying to say all common sense values are sacrosanct with this post.

I am honestly sick of Americans assuming their politics are how the whole world functions.

Much appreciated. It keeps proving itself.
See what I mean?

you have a major problem with grouping and labeling people together that have little to do with each other aside from disagreeing with you

What's Western Europe?

Tifa is the one that cares about the planet.

Cloud is just being himself and protecting his friends.

>or find alien
That's totally wrong, the entire point of consuming Japanese media in the west is to experience an alien culture. We don't read a manga and go "oh wow they're really beating me over the head with the need to respect the elderly" because respecting the elderly hasn't been a political talking point in the west for decades.

Keep seething americunt.

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We get it, you can’t get laid

don't be able to differentiate between reality and fiction is a sign of low intelligence and/or autism.

White people are so angry about politics because there is no such thing as white culture. They're always talking about stealing cultural ideas, heritages etc that are not actually their own and trying to pretend that they're something other than what they actually are.

It's primarily Americans that do this shit. Or people too autistic to celebrate the culture they're actually apart of.

This, it's why WWII is so glorified in the MGS world, but despair throughout the Vietnam era. It's the whole basis of the Cobra unit, war heroes broken and left without purpose post-war. Naked Snake/Big Boss had to be taught this, it was The Boss's final lesson, and ultimately the disillusionment that set him off on the Private Military industry.

Euro have been seething for a long fucking time.

Religious aliens glass and occupy earth killing humans on sight, people want to retake earth and make it safe. There's a bunch of other human colonized planets but nobody really gives a shit bout them

its interesting, because i don't disagree with you. there are lots of idiosyncrasies to be found in manga or anime that are reflective of interesting japanese culture. but what i was attempting to speak about is a thematic level, is the core ideas or claims a story might espouse. and i think you will find that many japanese works in manga or anime have themes that are not very controversial. my favorite manga is one piece, which inserts its freedom vs authority central theme into its plot quite frequently. one piece chooses to depict the pirates (representing freedom) and the marines (representing authority) in both common sense-ical morally good and bad ways. though one piece is surely a product of japanese culture, its central idea is not very unique. the freedom vs authority dynamic is something you can see in plenty of western works.

let's be clear and honest though, when Yea Forums birches about politics in games, its not about theme. its about sheeva being black or having a less revealing shirt on. this tangent ive gone on here is mostly non-seqitur to the real root of the 'politics problem' for Yea Forums.

I'm actually happily married, but keep looking for stones to throw.
White neckbeards love sperging about anime tiddies, but also have very strong opinions about the sexual conduct of random strangers, usually based on religious pretenses. How many youtube videos from backwash channels crying about censorship of the Panty Sniffer localization have a PlayAsia discount code? Often times they choose to blame "The Western industry" or "Journalists" or "SJW'S." Imagine my shock, it's that goshdarn Cultural Marxism trying to get their politics in my video games! Something something, gay agenda, feminism, degeneracy. Does that help, or is it still too vague for you?

you are too deep into the internet. You're assuming that youtube channels about censorship and posts online about politics are representative of the larger population when they clearly are not. I don't actually disagree with your politics based on some of your posts, but you need to calm down.

I'm not white, and I unironically do want the west destroyed. It's always westerners (and muslims to a lesser extent) who want to impose their values on the rest of the world.

"War Is Bad" is Anti-America.
Stop the Japs.

>its about sheeva being black or having a less revealing shirt on
What Yea Forums (and the rest of Yea Forums) mean by politics is really interesting, because Yea Forums isn't one person, and its opinions fall somewhere along a spectrum of different beliefs. Some of it is straight-up racism, some of it is pushback against shit-tier writing which either lionises minority chracters or removes their personalities, some of it is against historical revisionism and anachronism, and so on.

You can have three anons who agree that Arthur from RDR2 shouldn't put up with suffragettes, yet totally disagree on the reason why. The hive mind has all these seeming inconsistencies because it's not actually a hive mind.

Jap left > US left

Dilate morph.

>I think that people in general should be treated with a certain minimum of respect
Which is what you start out with, indifference, their deeds lower it which pisses them off to no end.

sure. i didn't mean to say Yea Forums is monolithic earlier, and you are right on in all of your points. in general, the opening image of this thread put things on the wrong path, because nobody on the left or right has objections to the politics of ff7, while plenty of the board has problems with the politics (or the politics that drive certain aesthetic decisions) of mk11. and the reasons why they might be upset about it are indeed varied, but ultimately it comes down to reactionaries resisting progressive change as per usual in my opinion.

But the left side is unironically better

Also if you think Nier, MGS, or Ghost in the Shell have anything to say about the meaning of life, you've been horrifically misled

How do liberals feel about the political message of Vanquish?

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Wasn't it Barrett that thought this and while Cloud was more interested in getting money and killing Sephiroth?

Wait, does that mean that pewdiepie isn't a fascist neonazi because he likes that jap author and Jap right isn't US right either?

>crusading to preserve "Judeo Christian Western Values and Culture," but when it comes to any contemporary western media, it's all of a sudden degenerate and perverse

How is this cognitively dissonant? It's a rejection of modernist and postmodernist doctrine for that of generations prior.

>These folks are foolish enough to throw the baby out with the bath water.

It's communists and leftists who want to throw the baby out with the bathwater when they argue that western society is fundamentally racist, fundamentally tilted against the marginalized, fundamentally ravaged by capitalist greed, and should be usurped for a new economic paradigm. That's foolishness.

But it's no matter, you're obviously interloping from Reddit or Resetera or thereabouts. Your smarmy superiority makes it all but obvious, and "folks" gives it away. You need to do a better job blending in.

Yes.

White people have no culture because white people invented and spread the social construct of race. They kind of boxed themselves out of cultural discussion by inventing race, and making culture a facet of racial identity.
America has its own basket full of identity issues, the country is hardly 200 years old, often disconnected with its ancestral roots, has ridiculous levels of global influence while , and corporatized copy-pasting storefront chains like Starbucks or Staples deprives consumerism of what little choice it had.
Religious Americans are often non-practicing, but still get defensive over what beliefs they're expected to uphold. Once someone talks about Planned Parenthood, all of a sudden someone decided faith is very important for the moment.
Of all things to swear your cultural identity to, White American has to probably be one of the most vanilla,ubiquitous and faceless.

>white people did this
>white people did that
>they they they

White people are not one person.

Some people literally can't tell the difference between story and ideological/political propaganda.
Their brains have been bombarded with misinformation for years and any issue that takes critical thinking and stops them from being a brainless must-consume bot triggers an immediate irrational response.

"Why is it okay for this game to have political story beats, but this blatant propaganda is not okay?"

>Jap left > US left
you do realize most of the modern Japanese left is as socially liberal as the us left right?

I'm honestly laughing at the retarded brainlets on here who've never actually looked into the political parties in Japan

>you do realize most of the modern Japanese left is as socially liberal as the us left right?
Why lie?

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Is this where we cherrypick different things from either side?

what differentiates something you would deem simply political from propaganda in your eyes?

>all this cope because people dont want your capitalist-backed woke left wing politics in videogames

>Insular American thinks other countries works like his own, episode 469

>cherrypick
>lie
alright lets take gay rights for example
All of the three major leftist political parties in Japan, the Constitutional Dems, the Commies, and the Soc Dems, all support gay marriage outright to varying degrees (the commies last I saw only did civil unions, but still)
I'm not sure how you think they're social conservatives

>Leftyfags dreaming of being the next big video essay faggot with millions of views try to push political views onto media to force pseudointellectualist attitude and their beliefs to "OWN THE GAMERS"
>Ubisoft flat out denies pushing political agendas in Division 2 and Ghost Recon Breakpoint
>They have a fucking autistic meltdown

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>you do realize most of the modern Japanese left is as socially liberal as the us left right?
God, I hope not.

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Why is corporatism, an economic philosophy founded in Catholic social teaching, bad for the planet?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

I recognized the environmentalist theme, but I didn't really care. I liked FF7, but only because I thought the materia system was cool and I liked the music.

>either socially conservative retard or nationalist nip who doesn't like the reality of Japan actually out there
本当に馬鹿ですね。
well keep in mind with the way Japanese politics work the right basically has dominated almost the entire time, so even if say the Japanese public gets more liberal on an issue it either isn't reflected or has a very long delay time

>I'm not sure how you think they're social conservatives
Never said they were. I just think they're far more reasonable than damn near any American liberal or their European counterparts.

Am I wrong?

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This

How is corporatism destroying the planet?
There hasn't been a corporatist state in the world since Fascist Italy.

>Never said they were. I just think they're far more reasonable than damn near any American liberal or their European counterparts.
you seemed to be implying they were somehow more conservative than their American counterparts, when they really aren't.
also that depends entirely on what you're implying they're more reasonable about.
also keep in mind that the left has never actually had real political power in Japan (when the opposition has actually beaten the LDPthey were always clusterfuck coalitions that were center to center-rightish) so they're obviously going to operate differently than the left in America or Europe

Why do lefties want woke politics in vidya tho?

Are they desperate enough to make themselves be heard by infecting other mediums?

The more you demand to be accepted the more the people will resenr you.

Desu I really hate the rep that nuclear reactors have gotten.
A surprising amount of people my age think they are terrible for the enviro.
A desire to see more nuke reactors built is one of the few political things me and my dad agree on.

>YAS multimillion dollar triple A video game studios giving me heavy-handed moral diatribes about how evil big corporations and capitalism are FTW!

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What do you mean by "fiscally liberal?"
Do you mean social democracy/welfare state, or do you mean hands-off free market laissez faire?
People often conflate "liberal" and "left-wing," but in economics they aren't the same thing.
Personally, I'm left-wing economically and right-wing socially, but I'm always careful to never say I'm "liberal economically" because "liberal economics" is actually what the conservatives support.

you'll find that in addition to being white, people can also be other things, almost all of which give them a culture

>le ebil wypipo invented race
>so let's buy into their narrative by calling them by their race

There's no deeper meaning, user.

The curtains are blue because the curtains are blue.

Niggers are Gods to NPCs

It's about whether it fits the game thematically and evolved as a natural consequence to the game's story.

If it fits, perfectly fine.
If it doesn't, then we have to ask "Why is it in the game then?"

If the answer to that is: "Because that's the developer's political stance" then fuck off with your propaganda.
Best example is Hat in Time's tranny flag. Has nothing to do with the game whatsoever. So why is it there? Because that's the devs political view.

It depends on the type of white. If your referring to Mediterranean white, and southern Europe white then yeah, they do have culture. The brits and Americans dont have a real culture. Their culture is stolen from whatever is convenient at the moment and they whitewash and mutilate other cultures to give themselves the false sense of cultural superiority.

When the creators were adding a specific piece of content, were they thinking about the game and trying to express a certain feeling, were they thinking about the players and trying to get them to be a certain way, or were they thinking about themselves and trying to show themselves and the studio in a certain way?

The first one is art, the second one is propaganda, and the third one is narcissism.

For us burgers, yeah, I get where you're coming from, but how do the British not have culture?
Or do you just mean modern Britain doesn't have culture? In that case, I'm inclined to agree.

>liking anime girls portrayed as sexually mature in pedophilia
Are they really still on that?

they want to control art but pimp out children.

Victorian to Modern Britan. Most of their culture back then was snobish nonsense taken from other cultures the world over. China, France, Spain, etc,

Wow cool punchgirl!

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for someone on the left, you're pretty insistent that culture only comes from blood and soil

Any of you ever read though a thread and think to yourself
>"I wish every user in this thread would die horribly"
?

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Swordfighting is based and redpilled, you’re just a coward too afraid of proving yourself in mortal combat.
>tfw you will never become an adventurer sponsored by the King
All because cucks wanted to shame us.

Why do you keep making what is essentially the same fucking thread over and over again despite receiving numerous responses each time detailing why you're a total moron, which you then ignore?

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this is true considering how many people die from air pollution

Western artists drawing in a Japanese art style just gives me an uneasy feeling

I remember posting this kind of shit when I was a misanthropic 14-year-old.
Time to grow up kid.

Doesn't Japan have a different view on gaystuff?
I mean you come up with some gaystuff like that's what's left-leaning are about. Some republicans/right-leaning politicians support gay marriage too

mm tities

>What people want:
Stop shoehorning preachy and progressive Californian political messaging into games in an attempt to influence people.
>What brainlets hear:
Strip all political intrigue and subtext from games. Remove every politician character. Don't even talk about fictional political scenarios.

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because he's trying to stir discussion.

With a strawman argument? Nope.

Oh wow, swordfighting. Its not like the french or spanish never had it.

Im unbiased. More anarchist than anything, because I believe that government is bullshit and needs to burn due to its corruption and failure to actually function properly as one.

My opinion stems mostly from historic facts on the matter of fact Americans largely did not have a culture to begin with. Yeah, they were originally British colonists but they abandoned that identity during the revolutionary war. They have had no centeral identity to base their progress from beyond whatever came to them from the east. Victorian Era England had its own sort of budding culture, but elements of it were stolen from others and dressed up as its own in an attempt to compensate for whatever they lacked for some reason.

Not with Claymores
We wuz Vikangz n sheit lil boi

What the fuck are you talking about?

Well listen to me nigger, ya ain’t gettin nothin from me

>take game
>spin it to be about (insert political message here)

Stop it, faggot

Out of all the places you could've picked, you chose those inbred islandmonkeys?

What do you mean?
Picked for what?

Jokes on you, I'm a misanthropic 23 year old.

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Zelda is Nazi

>My opinion stems mostly from historic facts on the matter of fact Americans largely did not have a culture to begin with.
it's possible for there to be no unified "american" culture, and yet every person within america could and does still have a culture.

having said that, though, there is very obviously a unified american culture. this is more obvious from the outside, and if you're not an american you'll probably have noticed american culture taking over your own. see youtube.com/watch?v=GGOiWVP-0OE for some australian butthurt about american culture.

>>spin it to be about (insert political message here)
But that's not the case. It's not even subtle about it, have you ever played FFVII?

No joke, I think MGS was the legit military recruiting tool before CoD came around.

Because Japanese games tend to deal with more universal themes and issues--maybe even more human concerns--as opposed to the Western scene which tries to offer overt, "persuading" commentary on American politics.

and of course, by persuading commentary, you mean orange man bad.
No other real political messages in Western media nowadays.
I wonder how we'll look back on this decades from now when Trump is gone, seeing how all our media was just designed to tell us that he was an ebil cheeto.

I actually never thought of it like that but now that you mention it, were kind of monolithic like Britan was during their days as an Empire.

Why do you mention hotline miami? Did I miss something. Literally just finished it the other day. I didn’t think it had a message. Only part of the game that did anything crazy is when you go back and play as the biker and then kill the original character, is there some message there? Am i just a giga-brainlet? Does some stupid shit happen in wrong number? I haven’t played it yet, Downloaded it this morning.

>No other real political messages in Western media nowadays.
Not in tabloids but Trump also makes often headlines for nothing

Oyvey

>tend to deal with more universal themes and issues
you mean like say Anti-War or Environmentalism?
They're actually really popular insofar as they're a major focus on contemporary Japanese politics, what with Abe and the whole constitutional revision thing and the Fukushima Disaster

But FF7 was long before Fukushima.

I also think we just favor Japanese "politics" because they're mostly removed from our own. And even the issues we do share--for example, issues women face in the workplace--are handled more tastefully and meant to be "provocative" rather than "evocative".

Fukushima was just the more recent impetus
the Atomic bombs hitting Nagasaki and Hiroshima were actually another big reason, though I know in older works it could also be Tolkienesque opposition to Industrialization

And for every one you name you could name twenty that don't.

Le gamers OWNED amirite?

And anti-war, especially environmentalism was a big part of japanese politics.
People do give a shit if the environment changes or is getting destroyed and that's not just a left/right issue.

DRUMPTH IS HORTLER.
HE DONE FOR NOW.