What should be the next total war game?

real time battles instead of units playing an animation and doing dice rolls

something with actual multiplayer instead of gay co-op shit because the AI sucks ass

The next step for Total War is to merge with Grand Strategy otherwise the series will become stagnant

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I agree with this. As a kid, I was blown away by Shogun and Rome. However, they've never improved the AI and only casualized the core game. The whole game needs a revamp to make it more realistic. What bothers me most is that armies don't need supply lines.

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3 kingdoms is gonna bomb, who wants to play this shit? its pandering to the chinks on steam

make us a proper Medieval 3. not some chink shit nobody has ever heard of

40k

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War of the Roses

Literally one of the famous people have asked for the most for years. Westerners love China and fell for the orientalism meme hard

its gonna bomb
theres no unit or faction diversity

>LOL NOW U HAVE EPIC ARCADE MODE !!!

retarded shit

>theres no unit or faction diversity
There's far more diversity than Shogun did, and the game will also include bordering areas, as always

This.
With Sea Peoples horde stacks emerging to fuck everyone up as an event.

t. Historylet when It comes to China

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le game of thrones xD

Attila II or just a x64 patch for Attila

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Wouldn't work without seriously redesigning a lot of mechanics.

>us civil war

worked for ultimate general. The civil war was still line tactics.

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Who gives a shit about random barbarians no one can even tell apart? Should have made Total War: Genghis if they wanted hordes

give me a total war that covers around 800 to 1000 AD with a full map of western eurasia

This is what should happen.

It's going to be Game of Thrones: Total War, though.

We need Total War: African Kingdoms

Empire 2 bridging the gap between Med 2 and Empire: pike and shot, conquest of the americas, etc. Start out with knights and have line formations by the end.

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Pike and Shotte of course

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>us civil war
This would be cool if they made it a Victorian total war rather than focusing on the civil war.

Now this would be pretty kino

It wouldn't work as well in total war, given the fundamental differences in the nature of war during that era from the pre napoleonic era, because so many battles were decided by the speed at which troops got to the battlefield, which CA isn't going to implement because they're too busy trying to streamline these games for mass production. That said, it'd be nice to see more US civil war games.

youtube.com/watch?v=5OKdbc0DYpM&ab_channel=MagiaInternetu

Boring, would literally be spearii and clubmen.
Potential, but not as a standalone title.
Literally Charlemagne+

Samefag

Total war: Paleolithic Warfare

>Literally Charlemagne+
That would be a start, but something covering a much larger geographic area.

Charlegmage had the most kino unit cards of the series

>13 seconds apart

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>There can be only one man of taste in each thread

I see this being a huge possibility because why really go through the effort of overhauling how spies work, family trees, weddings, and the campaign map diplomacy for a 3K game that might flop.

>unit sizes of 10

Did you play Fall of the Samurai? Took place around that time and proved that the warscape engine was actually pretty good when it came to gunpowder line battles, and the artillery was actually modeled well for once.

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Phone and computerposting samefag

How would posting the same thing in succession help my argument at all though? I don't think you know what samefagging is meant to accomplish.

3k is already being viewed as a potential flop?

You're trying too hard to fit in

Victoria or Pike and Shot. I want muh guns.

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t. d&d

My issue isn't really with the way the engine models the fighting, I just think it wouldn't capture the important feature of that generations of warfare where the speed at which an army concentrates on the battlefield heavily influences the outcome, which is about half the battle. CA could actually implement it, but that would mean work and they aren't about that.

Korea: Three Kingdoms

I just like the campaign mechanics and the idea of turning around a crumbing empire as opposed to making a new one, I don't really give a shit about what period it's in.

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Total War: Warcraft
or
Total War: Halo

home

FotS was so broken, horry shiet.

Lord of the Rings

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I think Victoria Total War would be too large. Remember when France was only two provinces in Empire?

Warhammer 3.

Maybe thats a hint that CA should consider changing how they handle campaigns rather than just stamping out cookie cutter games.

Medieval 3.

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Based and Kingdom of God on Earth pilled

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GoT and Warhammer 3 DLC's

I hope they cover the US Civil War in a Sagas game. I played the fuck out of the Civil War mod for Empire.

Bases Total War will thankfully never pander to amerifats with some boring muh civil war game only burgers would like

US civil war is actually quite popular outside of the US in tabletop wargaming because its a pretty interesting period in military history.
But I fully support setting the game somewhere else in the same time frame just to piss off the burgers.

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A total war game from the 1500s till the libertadores and civil war era might work

Fuck Rometard's
Fuck JewS civil war fags
Fuck Warhomos
Fuck Game of Tards

Give us something cool like TeS, hyperboria, Age of Atlantis(or just early bronze age), Armored knights and matchlocks

>almost all the north american nations are just hordes that can't settle with no horses
>have bonuses to razing and gets growth bonus from sacking
>global attrition because most of pre-colonial americas is uninhabitable
>no tech trees
>game is centered around noble savages in central america and iroquois
>events include child sacrifice, drought, famine and the solar eclipses
>european invader alternate scenario shogun 2 style with everyone dying from pox
>multiplayer is just everyone spamming archers because nobody has armor besides shitty leather
wow that sounds so fun OP

Industrial and Victorian Era, 1818 - 1918

Lord of the rings

Bantu: Total War

You could have saved us all some time and said "medieval 3 or I cry"

Indisputable scientific fact.

Total War: Kangz of Africa

Dumb historylet

>almost all the north american nations are just hordes that can't settle with no horses
fun
>have bonuses to razing and gets growth bonus from sacking
fun
>global attrition because most of pre-colonial americas is uninhabitable
maybe fun depending on implementation
>no tech trees
not fun
>game is centered around noble savages in central america and iroquois
fun
>events include child sacrifice, drought, famine and the solar eclipses
fun
>european invader alternate scenario shogun 2 style with everyone dying from pox
maybe fun depending on implementation
>multiplayer is just everyone spamming archers because nobody has armor besides shitty leather
not fun but probably just balance doomsaying

A flawed idea, for sure, but given Attila I think it can be done well.

Bronze Age and Early Antiquity

>no tech trees
Total meme, pre-columbian American history didn't start and end with aztecs

I assumed he was talking about the context of the Conquistadors. In that time-frame, as far as I know, there was not a huge amount of new technology introduced to the region due to the circumstances.

Ancient Greece/Egypt/Persia

>almost all the north american nations are just hordes that can't settle with no horses
Most North American natives were settled though. Eurasian populations were more migratory than them.
>events include child sacrifice, drought, famine and the solar eclipses
All things that happened in european populations within the last 2000 years at least
>global attrition because most of pre-colonial americas is uninhabitable
If it was unihabitable, there wouldn't have been North Americans there nor would so many Europeans settled down there

The micro demand of Tomb Kings chariots is bullshit even if they clean house

Civ fights aren't RNG, they're calculated by combat strength, terrain and stat boost modifiers. In fact you can see exactly how fights turn out in the health bars in the info screen if you hover over the enemy with your attacker selected.

Inuit: total war

Nobody tried that before, it would totally subvert expectations

anything that let you do siege like alesia
not a single total war has good sieges and force you to do assault.

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Air planes weren't really used en masse in direct combat in WW1. They could be strategic map units like Spies and Diplomats for recon and sabotage. Everything else is easy. Make tanks units be 90% infantry that just advances behind those tanks and you're golden.

But that would suck. Tanks are supposed to steamroll the plebs

Has any game every done sieges well (ie anything beyond either wait x turns to starve them, or just a flat out assault)?

Sieges are boring

But you can do the siege thing and wait for them to surrender. If you're not assaulting there isn't really much to do.

They should get a new engine that has good core scalability. Current one uses cores quite inefficiently, and seeing as how newer cpus are pushing core count further up, it wouldn't be a bad investment.

oh, and all this time I thought my computer sucked

Nah man TWs run like total shit.

thirty years war game when?
most destructive conflict in western europe deserves attention

ALL OF ROME WILL BE AMAZED AT SUCH A VICTORY
THE DAY IS OURS

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I'd rather have Taiping: Total War to btfo the chinks

to little sides, 30y war has a bunch of players

>What should be the next total war game?
Not shit for once.

Dumb historylet

>Principes behind the Triarii

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>knowing their names
lol nerd

>not knowing anything about Rome
Zoom zoom

Can I have a 30 years war game please?

Empire was a wretched horrible mess when it came out, but it's my favorite Total War. Ambitious as hell.

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MY ENEMIES ARE MANY
MY EQUALS ARE NONE

Why are Warhammerfags so hostile anyway?

Americas during War of 1812-Wars of Latin American Independence

VERIFIED KINO

youtube.com/watch?v=chPRYXS0YZI

Look closer user, the Principes are in the front with the chainmail while the hastati are beside them in cloth shirts. It's the full legionarys in the back

I BELIEVE THE INVASION WILL COME FROM AFRIKER ITSELF

Vietnam

>Pre-Marian and Post-Marian soldiers

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dds

>not seeing how long you can keep your pre marian units alive after the reforms happen

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Based

Nyt really

only if naval warfare is properly introduced
if I don't get my ironclads I could give zero fucks

I wish I could play FotS again, but one day it just starting stuttering along no matter how low or how high my settings were and sometimes the text turned into eldritch writings.

I tried playing it but I suck and it has no tutorial so I always get crushed

Seven Kingdoms or bust.

Total War sucks. It looks cool from the outside because units move in formations and you play on maps with units that have historical names and skins, but in the end it's just another poorly made game where you're just trying to outsmart the developers and once you do and find a method that work it's becomes a grind. You're not HG Wells trying to capture Napoleon's genius, playing solitaire would be a much bigger intellectual challenge than what you're doing. Picrelated vaguely applies.

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Alright, Mesoameriaboo chiming in. I'm not gonna comment on the Americas as a whole too much because while I know more about the groups in what's now Canada, the US, Central America, te Andes, and the rest of South America more then most people I still don't know enough to speak authoritatively about it, so i'm going to primarily focus on Mesoamerica here and why this is retarded

>are just hordes that can't settle with no horses
No horses is a serious mark against a potential Precolumbian Total War game regardless of where it takes place, but the "no settling" thing isn't really a concern.

To begin with, Mesoamerica (the bottom 2/3's of the Mexico, Guatamala, Belize, etc) and the Andes (Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, etc) had been primarily inhabitated by sendatary, agricultural populations for a longass time: Agriculture was widespread in Mesoamerica by around 3000 BC and you had the first cities and proto cities in the region by 1400BC, that have monumental archtecture, some craft specialization and long distance trade, and some degree of class differentiation with nobles and rulers; with writing arising in 900BC. In the Andes, i';m a little iffier on the timeline here, since there's some sites like Caral that have been called proto-cities that date back to 3000 BC, but at the latest you have Chavin proto-cities around 500BC and first true cities by 200-300AD or so. By the same time in Mesoamerica, virtually the whole region aside from West Mexico was based around formal political states ruling out of urban cities, many with complex water mangement systems, complex political and economic relationships, widespread writing, etc. See pic related for a summary of the timeline of Mesoamerican history from the first cities to when the Spanish arrived.

1/?

Incorrect, but I'll get there

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Keep talking Pablo, I'm listening

cont:

That's not to say there weren't more rural areas with only smaller towns and villages between the large cities, many of which gradually grow into larger influenetial urban centers: Cholula for example was a small village in the Preclassic, grew to a more modereately sized city during the classical period, and following the collapse of Teotihuacan and the Classical collapse in general grew to a huge regional center of political and religious influence during the postclassic, with various kings from other cities making religious pilgrimages to the site. For example, if you look at the timeline during the early-postclassic section, you see how I mention that 8-deer-jaguar-claw, who unified the Mixtec city-states into an empire, had the blessings and support of Toltec nobles: In particular, apparently 8-deer aided the Toltec ruler of Cholula Lord-4-Jagar-Face-Of-The-Night in his own military conquests and was part of why he was able to garner Toltec support. Pic related shows both rulers together

Likewise, if you look at the timeline, you'll see that even as of the Late-Postclassic, after the Fall of the Toltecs, you have migrations of the Nomadic tribes to the North of Mesoamerica moving down into Central Mexico and transioning into Mesoamerican style urbanism and settling down and forming cities, which was what gave rise to the Aztec Empire. So the idea that there wasn't any sort of settling going on OR that there was stangation during any given period without new urban centers being founded or expanding is totally wrong.

Even up in what's now the US, there were more agricultural and sendatary cultures then most people realize.

2/?

Attached: Eight Deer Jaguar Claw (right) Meeting with Four Jaguar, in a depiction from the Codex Zouche-Nuttal (600x452, 417K)

Keeping it bumped for mayabro

cont:
To begin with, a lot of the "nomadic" groups still practiced agriculture, just a form of it where they involved clearing new trees and brush in forests while keeping older trees intact, forming large amounts of usable farmland the still retained wild animals to hunt in what appeared to European settlers to be wilderness over large spaces, and they would move from location to location before loopng back to the original location by the time the area has rejuvenated.

Secondly, there were still a lot of sendatry towns and communities: Notably, the Mississippians were a straight up civilization that arose around the eastern US around 800AD, and formed a variety of towns and even cities, sort of like the cities and proto-cities you see in Mesoamerica around 1400-900BC, with monumental earthenworks, early signs of class speicalization and econopmic acitivity and proto-states with some degree of rulers and nobility. Particularly notable is Cahokia, an absolutely massive city with a population of 30k to 40k people, absolutely dwarfing any otherwisw comparable Olmec site or early cities in the Fertile Crescent. Down in the Southwest, you also have some cultures with towns that practiced Sendatary agriculture such as the Pueblo, Hohokam, Salado, etc, and some (though not as much as the Misssipssians) indication of wide-reaching trade, social classes, etc. And in general, there were other sendtary cultures here and there.

However, due to various reasons, both the Mississspians and the Southwest groups had collapses due to social unrest and climate problems, and while enough of these and other sendatary towns were left for spanish explorers to come across when they came up from Mexico, the diseases they spread finished these cultures off before they had a chance to recover and perhaps progress like early Mesoamerican and Andean civilizations like the Olmec and Chavin had been able to into.

3/?

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Even Rome II is a shitton better now after CA went back to add more content to it for some reason. I can say I enjoy it as much as Attila now.

No more of this warhammer shit. fuck off already with fantasy shit. I want my god damn medieval total war 3 already damn it. Fuck anything else.

Bismark: Total War

To be honest I sort of regret starting this, I don't think this partciular thread warrants a 10+ post series of responses to that given how most of the thread was talking about other stuff and this is rather disruptive.

I should have just made a way shorter, 1-2 post long reply to the comment, though at this point i'm not sure if I should just go ahead and keep going since I started or if I should just stop, summerize the rest of what I was gonna say, keeping it more towards how a Precolumbian Total War would work without going full autism over the historical info, and leave it at that with 1 or 2 final posts

I agree, i loved playing as Venice using the minor factions mod, sailing around the world, fighting british and french ships while colonizing the caribbean and india, it was amazing. had a lot of flaws though. the european map was too small.

Late Imperial period. Scramble for Africa and all that

>at this point i'm not sure if I should just go ahead and keep going since I started or if I should just stop, summerize the rest of what I was gonna say...and leave it at that with 1-2 final posts

To clarify, i'm wanting the opinions on other anons which they'd rather me do: Continue with the autistic series of posts replying to each point or just wrap up with a more directly on topic reply?

Medieval 3 will never happen. Deal with it

Imjin War
There's virtually no vidya about it and there'd be plenty of unit variety
Thirty Years War would be nice too

We all autist down here

This. Start with the Mongolian attempted invasion and continue till nips colonize korea

African colonization by Europeans would be good if they can deal with the people accusing them of racism. European powers start small, have powerful troops, but they'll have to deal with other Europeans and rebellions until they get the tech to keep the Africans from rising up so often. Africans can start out small or big, and it is easier for them to hold territory (unless you got sub-saharans trying to take North African territory or something) and get agreements with Western powers in a "I'll leave you be if you fight this guy near you/help me take this African territory" sense, but they'll experience problems as they try to westernize to fight back the Europeans and claim their own destiny. Playable factions would be UK, France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Ethiopia, Egypt, and Liberia. Or something like that, I don't know.

We're autistic down here. Keep going.

Why? Its literally the best period and could use a modern remake.

Kongo Kingdom, Boers, Zululand, Khoisan, great lakes Kingdoms

They're like Valve: one, two, the end, never three.

Star wars unironically.

Current continuity? Might as well let us plant onions

sdsa

s

how would that even work

Like command and conquer

Absolutely Medieval III.

The game is old with graphics that don't appeal to current zoomers. A lot of newer Total War fans missed out on it. There are some new things that could be done with it.

And Game of Thrones and Medieval history stuff is HOT right now.

HEAVY BILLMEN

This is what I was thinking. It would be cool if factions had houses/clans that you had to keep in good terms otherwise they could rebel or switch factions.

the game was allegedly rushed and a lot more content was to be involved, the original would've looked a lot more like N:TW I guess.

Great DLC suggestions, user.

If you insist

cont:

The explorer De Soto for example reports coming across a variety of towns, but they all became abandoned when he returned to these areas just months/years later. so British/French colonialists were already encountering a sort of post-apocalyptic landscape

>have bonuses to razing and gets growth bonus from sacking

Mesoamerican and (AFAIK) Andean warfare did not involve a higher degree of razes or sacks then European, Middle Eastern, or Asian Warfare. In fact, the Aztec Empire in particular might have done less: Their primary goal in expansion was economic/resource extraction. I'll go into this in more detail further down, but the lack of horses had a variety of impacts: A ton in warfare, from it causing warfare to be seasonal, traditional sieges not being a thing, larger army sizes, and potentially also being one of the factors for the lack of metal weapons and armor (though this was primarily climatic and due to the abdunace of obsidian) but also had impacts on adminstration: That is, hands off, indirect forms of rule for larger states were the norm: Stuff like installing rulers from your own royal dynasty, political marriages, tributary relationships, etc was done more then directly governing conquered cities

So, the Aztec empire sort of functioned like the Mongol Empire: they would stroll up to a city, ask that they become a tributary, and if they refused, there would be a war, and there's some evidence that they avoided damaging infrastructure and the civillian population during these, as they wanted the city, after they were defeated and they submitted, to still have the people and infanstructure to be able to gather cacao, cotton, obsidian, gold, whatever to then send to the Aztecs as tribute annually. Though, there's also times they did raze cities, particularly when an established tributary refused to pay tribute, to scare other tributaries out of doing that themselves

4/?

>but they all became abandoned when he returned to these areas just months/years later. so British/French colonialists were already encountering a sort of post-apocalyptic landscape
Imagine if we had a time machine to go back into time to see the entirety of Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala at the height of the Mayan power where their structures swarmed the amazon before Europeans raped it with smallpox.
youtube.com/watch?v=Ni5tgO4Bh3Y&t=9s

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Total War: World War 2

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explain

Medieval 3. I don't ask much

now that would be something

based autista user

like the game command and conquer

mayans got raped by nature way before europeans arrived

Dudes running in at 8 seconds reminds me of the yari shattered running bug. Those guys would sanic faster than light cav off the battlefield

>Lord-4-Jagar-Face-Of-The-Night
such meme names, hory sheet

based

Modern-age military

Only clone wars but before Disney bought star wars

>warhammer 3 is already happening
>THREE kangdoms

that was the worst feature of rome 2 though

I'd like another medieval focused one, but if not that, a better shot at the imperial era up through ww1,

or if they had real ambition, a game that that stretches REALLY far.

maybe fall of rome all the way to ww1?

You start in a small split up region and as time goes on the map expands and fractures differently?

That would be difficult though, history and war would be really different if the Holy Roman empire didn't push the moors out, or if europe HAD taken the holy land back or the mongols HAD made it into europe fully.

Total War: 3 Kingdoms

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Sid Meier's Total War

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Tom Clancy's Total War

Cringe, the series could literally add new features by copying the older games

It's a 60 dollar game where it's 2022 and you win if you launch nukes first.

I'm honestly curious how the hell that'd worek

sada

>But that would suck. Tanks are supposed to steamroll the plebs
They were very contextual, they were good at getting a breakthrough but had utterly shit mobility.

They missed a chance to do a 100 year war with tw saga. They could even recicle the charlegmane map since they were already reusing attila engine. It would easily be more interesting than what we got and also throw medevalfags a bone.

cont:

sorry for the delay

>most of pre-colonial americas is uninhabitable
This is just laughably silly, most of what's now the US is extremely suitable to habitation, as evidenced by the swaths of Native American tribes that had so much space and resources they never needed to settle down, the two regions that DID start up complex civilization even if they didn';t get that far, and the success of the United States today; Mexico having huge amounts of civilizations that were able to support themselves, etc.

>no tech trees
Obviously, there was a huge degree of technological and social innovation to allow Mesoamericfan and Andean people to develop into civilizations, but the ideas that they then stagnated is totally false: I already posted a timeline of Mesoamerican histotry, and while it's more focused on events and states rather then technology or social development, but it should get the general idea across that the region was constantly in flux and not stagnating.

To look at Postclassic in particular, the period leading up to Spanish contact, to address : Metallurgy, which first arose in the region during the mid-classical period (I'd largerly describe classical Mesoamerica as being rougly Bronze-age level complexity despite the lack of metallurgy, and some sites, such as Teotihuacan, were more classical-antiquity tier complex), and was limited to softer metals like, Gold, Silver, and Copper then, as well as mostly casting and simplier objects, while in the post-classic bronze smelting was a thing, more complex metallurgical techniques from fine detailing, complex shapes (see pic) articulated pieces, and alloys were developed

5/?

Please don't use Joe Rogan/GrahamHancock stuff as your source of info for Precolumbian cultures, As an example, the Amazon were thousands of miles away from the Yucatan, which is where the Maya were

1491 by Charles Mann covers the same shit as Hanock, except it's not BS

Attached: Gold earrings originating from Tomb 7 of Monte Alban (Oaxaca, Mexico). Mixtec Civilization, 7th Cent (777x1024, 378K)

I want to say ASOIAF but nu-CA consists of faggy hipsters and not the based devs of R1-Med2. It would just be ruined with endless DLC like all their games are now.

The makers of this game could actually make a Grand Strategy/Total War game set in the Victorian era and it would be the best thing ever.

Total War: Neoproterozoic?
You're commanding groups of single cells to form into slime molds and mosses to spread your cells across the sea surface and eat/destroy cells of other species?
Sounds dope, I'd play it.

that'd unironically be pretty cool

Unironically this. If we're talking about TW going somewhere NEW, it's probably going to have to be more fantasy setting stuff, because most of the time periods where their entire model works have been covered, often numerous times.

The only other possible option to go somewhere new, still use that basic model but not use a fantasy setting would probably to have Total War WWIV, which is fought with tire irons and tire armor in the semi-habitable lands left after the nuclear apocalypse.

>the entirety of human military history is coverered in 10 or so games

Retard

Dude, the basic premise for their games requires 3 things
1: The war is based on piles of guys, standing in a formation, either stabbing other guys or just lining up and taking shots at eachother. That pretty much rules out any conflict more technologically advanced than the Civil War, and there is zero way they'd touch that time period in this climate. So, we're pretty much talking

cont:

Administrative systems become more complex as well: For example, Classical Maya states were largely dyanstic theocracies (rulers would often get deposed during droughts and such, where the lack of freshwater was seen as divine rejection, etc) for example, with little in the way of bureaucratic administration and only a few social classes, while in the postclassic you see more complex Maya polities, such as the united League of Mayapan; more formal oligarchies and monarchies (even some Republics, such as Tlaxcala,(see sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/it-wasnt-just-greece-archaeologists-find-early-democratic-societies-americas; Teotihuacan may have also had a republic or democracy but we aren't sure) with judicial systems and codified laws, etc: We know that Aztec cities had police forces, and both municipal and state level courts, with a whole appellate system, and judges held formal offices, with a legal/judicial bureaucracy, and there were also priesty/religious, medical, and military hierarchies.

Speaking of, Warfare was also increased in complexity substantially. I'll go into this more further down, but there were spy networks, innovations in weapons technology (the Macuahuitl, for example), as mentioned, more formalized rank hierarchies and stuff like martial guilds/orders etc. The more complex administrative and military facets also meant that you had far more complex diplomatic norms and systems: Entire subvarients of varients of languages specific to diplomacy, realpolitk scheming, etc; which directly played into the Spanish Conquest and why native states allied with Conquistadors, etc

6/?

Attached: Aztec courts.jpg (800x609, 458K)

They need to do a big overhaul of mechanics. You should be required to set marching formations and design camp layouts and keep open supply lines or carry food with you.

I want to beat enemy armies by cutting off their food so they are starving, then ambush their camp at night with archers and force them to flee into a wall of pikes in the dead of night.

The more I read about actual battles and shit the worse it makes total war look. The english won at agincourt because the mud exhausted the french footsoldiers in their heavy armor, and the arrows mostly couldnt kill them except at very close range but it made their horses stampede back into their ranks and many knights drowned in their own helmets, falling into the mud and unable to get up.

I want realistic weather, fatigue, armor, ect. Right now it just amounts to hammer and anvil basically. I used the same tactics in every single total war game except empire.

> but how much different is TW: 30 years war going to be from what they've done already?
No total war thus far has covered pike and shot combat, what are you talking about?

New game based on Medieval ages with better Diplomacy and Intrigue. Marriage and political assassinations

Medieval 2 did it dude they got handgunners and muskets and arbequsiers and pikemen

And of course the best strat is just bumrushing AROUND the pikes lmao.

>ww1
You'd have a front line and you'd build up supplies at certain points on that line for small-front battles ie. the big push. You'd only fight a few battles each turn.

This

>red army encircles blue army
>blue army ducks
>red army btfos itself
every fucking time

I second that

Total war Aztec please

For the longest time my bread and butter was ranges behind long lines then hammer and anvil, used it to beat the natives in the americas dlc so many times as Spanish, then the english showed up with more guns than me so I began resorting to swarming them with big cheap units and cavalry.

Now I see all ranged units as a waste.

Total War: Mongols. All of Eurasia and North Africa is playable.

Ever heard of the americas dlc for medieval 2? Shits cash.

Cope histcuck!

cont:

You see agricultural innovations, such as Chinampas, and the Aztec's stupid advanced botanical science, with them essentially inventing true bonotanical gardens, used for academic study, discovering herbal/medical properties, and them basically having a damn near taxonomic system for plant categorization. Similar is their advances in medicine and sanitation/hygine practices (state ran hosptials, empirically based medical treatment, daily washing/cleaning of streets and buildings, etc) in these 3 regards together they are arguably the most advanced in the world at those, see ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1805201/

Also, while Classical and even some preclassical cities already demonstrated pretty complex water management systems, sometimes with toilets, running water, and even pressurized fountains, but the Postclassic took this to the next level: King Nezahualcoyotl of Texcoco in particular did some insane stuff: He singlehandedly designed dual piped, switchable aquaducts for cities, complex, multi-mile long dike systems, and a particularly insane watering system for his imperial gardens and palace: It sourced water from the Mexican sierra Nevada mountains many kilometers away, brought it towards a set of 2 hills, at the first one it went into a system of pools and channels to regulate flow speed, crossed a large stone aquaduct spanning across the gorge between the two hills, and then that aqueduct formed a circular circuit around the second hill, which flowed into a series of baths as well as dropped water off at key points, which then formed waterfalls to water the plants in Texcoco's imperial gardens at the hill's base, and this also fed into both the palace for it's water

7/?

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ww1 would just be hoi4 but you ca fight the battles total war style if you want

I jsut found out about the brittania total war, why is no one talking about it?

They'd be stupid not to buy rights to A Song of Ice and Fire, even stupider not to get Lord of the Rings rights when they peaked.

It will sell like hotcakes if they make a Total War game set there.

>Multiple Scenarios(Aegons Conquest, War of the Five Kings, Robert Rebellion, outright fight to sit on the iron throne)
>Have the threat of the others beyond the wall after X turns
>Bring in family tree mechanics in your diplomacy
>Hiring sellswords
>Extended map out to Essos (Yi Ti DLC to help world build)
>Lite magic compared to Warhammer games

Honestly, I was suprised Games Workshop gave them the rights to make it too.

Attached: 1520939399590.jpg (1384x640, 45K)

Nobody likes the perfidious albion.

As others have said
War of the roses or early bronze age

No other fantasy setting is as great and varied as Warhammer. If they go for more fantasy they'll have to go for normalfag core like Game of Thrones or it'll flop sales wise.

Tamriel: Total War

I too want a bronze age total war.

Attached: Bronze_Age_End.svg.png (1024x722, 712K)

Based. Empire 2 or some 1800s setting would be class. Maybe throw in a colony mechanic where you can found a colony (at a preestablished location) and it changes name depending on who founds or first.
Nothing was better in Empire than having a line of Redcoats ambush some French with a triple volley at 30 yards. Equally as fun was watching quicklime reduce a 500 strong unit down to 20 thanks to a good angle.

World War one would be cool

If we are talking Fantasy, then LOTR would be nice but what I REALLY want is a Warcraft Total War. Not gonna happen prob but holy shit I would love it

Empire was great, but they need to find a better way to partially automate endgame stuff. I always lose interest near the end because it takes 20 turns of prep and micromanagment to start a proper war.

How would you feel about a game with the dynamic civ building of Civilization but the military and combat of Total War?

>tfw only game ever to deal with this time period was released in 1997

Why? What mechanis would need redesigning?

Greek Mythology Total War

basically this. it's specially bad after they changed engines and now the individual units are just an illusion

>No total war thus far has covered pike and shot combat

Medieval 2 literally has historical battles fought in that very style where you start with pike and matchlock troop placed over each other at initial deployment.
It's even in the game's demo.

Warhammer's Empire is completely reliant on pike and shot, albeit I don't know if they implemented those or not.

Likewise, it was the main formation for crossbowmen in Chinese amies even in the Three Kingdoms era. Again, if it's not in that's solely because CA finds it unacceptable to implement, not because a period of pike and shot hadn't been covered already.

There were also intellectual advancements being made: You started to see formal, state ran education systems, such as Tenochtitlan having state mandated public education for all kids regardless of social class or gender, you saw circles of intellectuals such as philsophers, poets, musicians, artists, etc; (with Nezhaucoyotl participating in such circles see pic); with Aztec philosophers basically beating Baruch Spinoza to his theories with their own monist process metaphysics and their own moral and ethical philosophy, etc, and basically proto-inventing entropy/thermodyanmics in the same way the greeks did with the atomic model, etc.

So, yeah, the idea that there was technological or social stagnation is complete horseshit: the Classical Period was arguably Mesoamerica's analog to the Bronze Age, while the Postclassic seems to have been turning out like Classical antiquity: governments and political institution were becoming more complex, the arts and sciences were blossoming, you were seeing metallurgy becoming widespread and bronze start to be a thing, etc.

>noble savages in central america and iroquois
I have hopefully already demonstrated that calling Mesoamerican civilizations "noble savages: is absurdly underselling them, as well as that there were other somewhat complex native american groups north of mexico beyond the iroquois.

>events include child sacrifice, drought, famine and the solar eclipses
Firstly, yeah, sure, why not? Those sorts of thing compose the events lists in other TW games. And there's plenty of other you could do, pick and choose froim the timeline I posted

8/?

Also as an aside, I REALLY wish I had kept this series of responses more directly related to how Mesoamerica would work as a total war game rather then just correcting this user's misconceptions, but oh well; i'll get to that towards the end

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Attached: 1550813062115.jpg (1032x774, 43K)

explain

Based, redpilled and saved.

> Bronze Age Total war
> Renaissance Total War
> Crusader Total War
> Napoleon 2 Total War
> Middle Earth Total War
> Post-apocaliptic Total War

They could take the way Wargame does battles, complete with the unit card and reinforcement system and make a 20th century Total War.
It's the time period that gave rise to the concept of total war, after all.
The diplomatic/political aspect would be the hardest to do; they'd probably have to completely rethink the strategic game.

Renaissance - Early Modern. Starts in mid 1400s Ends around 1650s.

>> Post-apocaliptic Total War

how would this work

Dont worry, after the huge success that 3K will be - CA will adopt the ToB/3K model and will be shitting out oversimplified recolors in various settings every couple years.

Total War: Game of Thrones: Westeros and Essos: the War between the Seven Kingdoms: United against Essos.

I would like to see the secession war as a next Total War saga title. It would be best as a saga title because it would have only 3 types of army, north, south, and Indians. probably two general to choose per side. Most important feature of this title would be Fort battles, they can take fort battles from Three Kingdoms and upgrade them, plus weapons like gatling from Shogun 2 or Warhammer.

Attached: american-civil-war.jpg (800x336, 109K)

Basic and normie but I would like to see it.
>factions have pre-established benefits such as Lanister wealth, Tyrel food, Dothraki horsemen, Targarian dragons etc
>designs done by the show, CA is lazy so they'll see this as a win
>White walkers could be done better, use them the same way crusade/jihad did in Medieval, or disable them for ease
>decent diplomacy system is a must
Could be an alright game.

First Total War game to have rape mods.

sa

cont:

Also, here's some examples of potential events

>Metalllurgy spreading up from central america
>Nahua migirations into central mexico
>The volcanic eruption that historically caused the population swell of Teotihuacan
>Traders from the US southwest or the Ecuadorian sea-fearers who historically came to mesoamerica
>The spread of Talud-tablero archtecture
>Teotihuacan's incursions into the Yucatan and installing rulers at various Maya city-states
>the development of writing
>Formation of the Aztec Triple Alliance or the Purepecha Empire
>Tlacelal's religious reforms

etc

>european invader alternate scenario shogun 2 style with everyone dying from pox

While that would also work as an event, I think it needs to be said that the infamous smallpox outbreak (as well as the later ones, more on that in a bit) aren't actually a forgone conclusion. In general, the Conquest of Mexico as a whole was largerly a fluke and highly depedent on a specific series of cascading events that played into each other. I've talked about this in detail before, such as here desuarchive.org/his/thread/5526254/#5526329 and here boards.fireden.net/v/thread/441551507/#441565260; but I want focus on a specific point here because it relates to how a Mesoamerican Total War game would have to work

I mentioned before how Mesoamerican empires were largerly hands off, potentially as a result of the lack of horses and the logistical hurdles of projecting long distance force and adminstration: Installing rulers from your own royal line, strategic political marriages, citing prior genological connections to earlier respected states, civilizations, or mythological figures; establishing tributary relationships, the threat of military action/force if others did not submit, or just sheer prestiege, trying to influence states to be susberivent as to be able to associate yourself with them, have their protection, full trading network access, etc

9/?

I just want Total Warhammer 3 with Kislev as a faction and a revamped Empire with more LL, LL starting points and missing units

Lord of the Rings but with warhammer engine.
Or
Rome 1 re released with warhammer engine
Or
Roma surrectum but stable
Or
medieval 3 but warhammer engine
Or
Rome 2 but with the Rome total war engine
Or
Age of mythology with the warhammer engine

A Rome 2 sequel that doesn’t suck ass, has monsters and what not like warhammer and has the warhammer engine.
Just imagine the type of game that would be.
Could add giant berserkers, elfs, dwarves, goblins, Pegasus, Greek hero, krakens, etc

Total War: Prehistoric

>A Rome 2 sequel that doesn’t suck ass, has monsters and what not like warhammer and has the warhammer engine
The engine is the same since Empire Total War.
This is why people don't like warhammerfags you guys only care about this stupid setting, not the gameplay, not the OST, not the mechanics, nothing. You guys are fucking retarded.

If Kislev aren't a base faction in WH3 it is a pretty safe bet that they will be a DLC faction.

Base factions will probably just be the 4 flavors of Chaos. And Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarfs will be DLC.

cont:

I already talked a bit about how the Aztec empire would use tributary relationships, but I wanna give examples for how they would use the other methods/how they played into Mesoamerican politics.

Let's look at the year 1325. The Mexica, (the specific group people most associate with the "Aztec", which is really a nebulous label) who were the latest Nahua ethnic group to migrate into the Valley of Mexico and transition into urbanism following increasing aridification in Northern Mexico, found their city of Tenochtitlan in the middle of a shitty, swampy island: There's a whole legend/story about how they got there, involving having previously been allowed to settle at the site of Chapultepec/Tizapan by the city of Colhuacan, then being driven out, but it's not really important here, and accounts differ (as is the case with most accounts of Aztec history, so what i'm gonna say throughout this is going to be a amalagm of a bunch of different versions with mutially exclusive details, and in general, there';s a lot of minute, specific details regarding tons of wars and events i'm skipping over)

The Mexica/Tenochtitlan would fall under the dominion of the city-state of Azacapotzalco, who was one of the most powerful cities in the valley, speffically the "captial" of the cities along the western side of the valley which belonged to the Tepanec Nahua subgroup, and would aid Azacapotzalco in military counquests throughout the valley. You see, the Nahuas were allegedly led into the Valley by a particuylar leader named Xolotl. One of Xolotl's daughters, Cuetlaxochitzin, would marry the first king of Azacapotzalco, Acolnahuacatl, thereby giving Azacapotzalco a great deal of political clout.

10/?

Eh, I think there's merit in valueing the setting/cultural aeshetic of historical games as much as gameplay, given how few games/franchises use historical settings aside from generic medivial europe/japan in fantasy stuff.

Warhammer 3 with revamped Chaos, Kislev, Ogres and some of the eastern factions. After that, make a new engine and Medieval 2. It's time to go on a holy crusade again.

yeah I think they should pick something from the time when armies advanced really slowly and battles involved huge numbers of men trying to outflank each other. it's just more interesting for these types of games than having a population that barely changes while your military marches half way across the map and fights a battle where everyone has guns and camps as far as way from the enemy as possible

Cont:

The Mexica elect (Nahua city-states were oligarchical, with nobles electing leaders, though in practice they were almost all selected from a single royal line) their first king, or Tlatoani, Acamapichtli (Tenoch was the leader who founded Tenochtitlan, but he was not a formal Tlatoani). Now, Acamapichtli is important, because he was the son of both Mexica and Colhuaca (the specific nahua subgroup in Colhuacan) descent: His father was a Mexica noble, and his mother was a Colhuaca princess. The Colhuaca claimed that they were descended from the Toltecs, which were seen by the Nahuas/many late-postclassic Mesoamerican cultures as the originators of the arts, goverment, and complex society in general ( as per the timeline in , this isn't really true, civilization is much older). By electing Acampichtli as king, they now themselves can claim Toltec ancestry

Azacaptotzalco uses the Mexica to help them in their conquests, expanding across the valley, with the Mexica being particularly lauded for their military skill and being associated with military might and savagery by other Nahua groups, reflecting their Nomadic Chichimeca origins. For their efforts, the then king of Azacaptotzalco, Tezozomoc, gifts the then king of Tenochtitlan, Huitzilihuitl, one of his daughters, Ayauhcihuatl. Once Tezozomoc dies, one of his heirs, Maxlta, assassinates the other, as well as the then king of Tenochtitlan, Chimalpopoca, who was the son of Huitzilihuitl and Ayauhcihuatl, since he also represented a successon threat given his mother was Maxtla's sister. Eventually, of course, Tenochtitlan would ally with the cities of Texcoco (there was also some political marriages between them, see desuarchive.org/his/thread/5285820/#5290147 for more info, where I also talk about this war in more detail) and Tlacopan, war with Maxtla, and found the Aztec Triple alliance

11/?

Attached: Tenochtitlan royal family tree.png (1158x710, 17K)

I like this a lot. the bronze age collapse mod for rome 1 was cool but kinda unfinished. would be awesome to see a proper version of it

>finally merge 3d and overworld map(like in sins of a solar empire)
>everything in real time including army movement and battles
>can pause in single player
>supply lines and logistics can now be implemented
>gigantic battles with no troops limits
>WW2

"Not shit" would be an improvement for Nu-CA.
They just do TW:Game of Thrones and milk retards dry once again.

Just play hoi4.

hoi3*

They had individual pike and musket units, but never integrated ones which were a staple of the time.

Buy a better pc
This is some reddit tier shit

>US Civil War
>You and your enemy's Ironclad get engaged in a naval battle
>Forced to wait till timer runs out to end the game

Attached: not so smug penguin.png (765x568, 48K)

>>noble savages in central america and iroquois
>I have hopefully already demonstrated that calling Mesoamerican civilizations "noble savages: is absurdly underselling them, as well as that there were other somewhat complex native american groups north of mexico beyond the iroquois.
Nigger you've done the exact opposite, you've overselled to the point where you're not even getting (You)'s anymore, negative or positive.
Go back to your /his/ circlejerk over how these pagan barbarians are so advanced for having the most basic of political structures.

lel

i don't know but it will be full of niggers and woman's

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HEAVY BILLMEN

cont:

With the Mexica also now using their dual fierce, savage chichimec origins (both in the sterotype they themselves got, and also by having ancestry in Xolotl by way of the wife Tezozomoc gave the Mexica, with Tezozomoc/the Azacapototzalco having ancestry in xolotl themselves, mirrored ith their cultured, refined toltec ancestry they arranged via marriage, to also now justify/empower their rule.

So that's an example of the whole political marriage and genealogical connection thing. Let's talk about the whole presitege and threat of military force part.

12/?

I haven't oversold anything, tell me what you don't believe and I'll give you a source for it, I'm also happy to link/upload papers that aren't open access. The other day for example I uploaded 10 papers on water mangement systems in Classical cities for an user here : filedropper DOT com SLASH mesowatermangementpapers

> the most basic of political structures.
How exactly are representative republics with formal senates and oligarchical monarchies with both municipal and state level magistrates, judges, courts, an an appeals system, and a wide reaching bureaucracy of judicial, religious, and martial offices "the most basic of political structures"? It's comparable to the sorts of political institutions you see in Ancient Greece

Further reading/sources for you to back up what i'm stating

tarlton.law.utexas.edu/aztec-and-maya-law/aztec-judicial-system
tarlton.law.utexas.edu/aztec-and-maya-law/texcocan-law
sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/it-wasnt-just-greece-archaeologists-find-early-democratic-societies-americas

If you'll actually give it a look, i'd also be happy to dig through my copy of Duran's a History of the Indies of New Spain for you to find specific chapters and page numbers, as it, alongside Sahagun's similarly titled "A general history of the things of new spain" are our two main sources for aztec society and history

They tried with gladius but meh....

>>warhammer 3 is already happening
Except for arabs and ogre kingdom they added al the races in 2. Aint shit of sigmar right?

>I haven't oversold anything
That you felt the need to sperg out and go "how dare you say that!" stretched over an entire paragraph says otherwise.
You're spamming factoids from your autismal research into a subject that, not many give a shit about in the hopes of sparking interest (?) when it may as well be "WE WUZ" tier shit for all the good it would do.

>> Middle Earth Total War
BfME 2 remaster when?

this would be amazing

>extremely slow and dull
Play aurora if you want that.

Warhammer really spoiled me with unit variety, I can't really stand just men with different kind of pointy sticks now. Civil war is just an infantryman and maybe a few kinds of artillery, that's it. WW1 & are not impossible to implement, but that's not very Total War-y, it would be Men of War or Company of heroes with campaign map at that point. Actually 40k has a better chance of working out since it has a lot of melee.
Realistically Medieval 3 or another fantasy setting like GoT or LotR is probably the best bet. LotR is not 'in' right now though, so no chance.

>extremely slow and dull
yeah because that's not what Total War gameplay outside of battles is.

No that's just slow and dull, this would be that x10

Attached: half of that is MEIOU+TAXES.jpg (281x123, 8K)

>>> Post-apocaliptic Total War

>how would this work

Well, you get a world were civilization was crippled and almost wiped by .

Humanity & optional new races survived but at a much lower technological level, and nation states collapsed or balkanized. Global trade ground to an halt and the survivors had to resort to autarky

You now have a somewhat uneven tech level, mostly medieval/tribal with some old tech or industrial age stuff.
You can now have ruins of old megalopolies to explore, a nice tech varied tree, all kinds of agents, fun with factions (or races), and as for troops a mix of the style of wh tw and empire/napoleon.

Not soon enough, sadly...

Do want

>EUIV
literally the dullest of the GSG games
go with the CK2 route instead

Read the filename.

Ah obviously, I'd never even consider buying shithole primitive culture: total war.

So, a mesoamerican tw would be a no from me. Not willing to play as a faction that doesn't have wheel, proper metallurgy and was constantly addicted since the age of three.

How about a total war game with an actual framerate, an overworld not from 2000s, responsive controls, not abandoned syraight after release, working diplomacy and actual fucking sieges.

>>extremely slow and dull
Not it won't if it's done correctly then it would work. Consider this:
>battles determine whenether a faction will get control over an area, not having to siege through all of its provinces so you can then annex them
>the victorious army can pass unscathed while the loser has to suffer attrition and will take months, maybe years to recover
>this makes the battles actually risky and you have to carefully think when to engage the enemy since the fate of the battles also decides the fate of the province
It has the potential to work.

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What's so bad about it?

Attached: 1483047596810.jpg (1936x1286, 822K)

>when it may as well be "WE WUZ" tier shit for all the good it would do
they wuz tho

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cont:

For example, an oft-cited reason for various city-states allying with Cortes is that they were wanting out of Aztec oppression or whatever (something that should be obviously wrong given that, as mentioned, the Aztec did not directly govern or controlled their tributaries, who retained their own local customs, laws, etc). In reality, though, only 1 state that would particpate in the Siege on Tenochtitlan, the Republic of Tlaxcala, allied with Cortes against the Aztec initially, with Tlaxcala having been victims of decades of Aztec incursions and blockades.

It is only after Montezuma II died and smallpox broke out in the captial that Cortes and Tlaxcala were able to convince a variety of cities, some inside the empire, some outside of it, to join with them to siege the captial: as the larges geopolitical player on the block was now weakened and ripe to be strategically taken out to further their own geopolitical interests. As I mentioned, most Mesoamerican empires were hands off, so these sorts of political power plays and alliances and uprisings were common, since each city, even the ones inside a larger empire, viewed themselves as a discrete political unit/city-state.

13/?

I certainly don't deny being a huge fucking autist, and in my defense, I noted earlier in the thread I regretted going into this much detail and that I would have been better off just making a more focused, 1-2 post reply about how a Mesoamerican Total War game would or wouldn';t work rather then autistically correcting the other user.

And yeah, I can see why people might see it as We Wuzz shit, it's a shame that retarded afrocentrists and SJW's have made it harder for people to believe real info about other cultures, but I assure you what I post is legit. Even if you look at the writings of Conquistadors like Cortes and Bernal Diaz you'll note they praise their cities, art, goverments, etc while denouncing their religon.

cont:

Another example, virtually every time an Aztec emperor died, border provinces would cease paying tribute to see what they could get away with, given the presumably weakened position of Tenochtitlan. It was critical for the new emperor to be successful in re-conquering these, as to scare the other provinces and tributary states back into submission/prove their worth, In one case, the new emperor, Tizoc, did such a poor job re-conquering these border provinces and city-states, basically losing his whole armies while only capturing a few dozen enemy soldiers to sacrifice himself, that way more cities broke off and ceased paying tribute, and the entire empire was threatened by his incompetence, that the Mexica nobility at Tenochtitlan had Tizoc assassinated. and even thougn his successor Ahuitzotl, did a good job on his intial campaigns against the resulting rebelling cities during his ascension, the political damage to the Aztec empire was done, and upon sending out diplomatic invitations to other indepedent states in the area:

>These foreign rulers were invited in order to impress them with Aztec grandeur and to instill them with the pomp and ostentation. The sovereign of Tlaxcala answered that he was unwilling to attend the feasts in Tenochtitlan and that he could make a festival in his city whenever he liked. The ruler of Tliliuhquitepec gave the same answer. The king of Huexotzinco promised to go but never appeared. The ruler of Cholula sent some of his lords and asked to be excused since he was busy and could not attend. The lord of Metztitlan angrily expelled the Aztec messengers and warned them to take care, for the people of his province might kill them if they recognized them.

14/?

They had wheels, pic related, and as I had mentioned in the thread already, bronze metallurgy. Also, to put the shoe on the other foot: How come Mesoamericans had suspension bridges and public schooling but euros didn't?

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>No other fantasy setting is as great and varied as Warhammer.

Attached: 1493699436266.jpg (288x252, 24K)

WW1 or Med2 span of eras. I love Med2 setting but there are some good quality of life features the later games brought, as well as updating the graphics. There was an Attilla mode to make it medieval themes but the author decided it was prudent to attempt to put the mod behind a paywall and now just seemingly quit because people said they werent paying for a mod that barely works and might never get finished.

There are a lot but requires you to read books and not waiting for the movie\tv serie.

Why are there no cute WH fantasy anime girls?

game of thrones desu

could do 3 game types, the history that was full fantasy, the post-magic period and then the current period where it starts out as mostly realistic and then starts to get more and more magical as it goes on.

Do you also browse Yea Forums? I think I saw you

And /his/.
It's nice to have someone interesting in this shit on hand, but he definitely overdoes it.

Attached: WTF.png (700x1700, 90K)

Yeah, I remember that Wolfsmund thread I made

Irl myth is good as well, get into medieval literature as well because it’s basically modern fantasy

But it would be really gay, because everyone did gay shit at that time

>They had wheels, pic related
Post an example of wheel from, say, a cart.

>Also, to put the shoe on the other foot: How come Mesoamericans had suspension bridges and public schooling but euros didn't?
Depends on what time period you're talking about.
Do you mean roughly bronze age Europe compared to roughly the Mesoamerican civilizations?

cont:

I want to stress a bit how big a diplomatic faux pass doing that is: Diplomatic visits of rulers between states, even ones at war, was a HUGE deal. For examples, kings would go to other cities for specific ceremonies and festivals even when soldiers from their own city were being sacrificed: IE the king of Tlaxcala might attend a ceremoney in Tenochtitlan where Tlaxcallan soldiers were being sacrificed. As the excerpt I posted notes, a big part of these visits, be it indepedent states or enemy states, is to "impress them with... grandeur and to instill them with pomp and ostenation". The idea is that by showing off how fucking sick your city is, you were showing off your own power and the benefits your own city could obtain by submitting as a tributary, such as by better access to their trading network/as goods (the tribute the aztec collected would, to some extent, be distributed back to tributaries, though obviously the ruling triple alliance kept a great deal of it), receive in diplomatic gifts, or if you were able to arrange an alliance or political marriage with them

In fact, this is WHY Montezuma invited Cortes, his Conquistadors, and his Tlaxcallan allies into Tenochtitlan to begin with: Refusing entry to a foreign dignitary (Cortes claimed he was representing the Spanish crown) was a big no no, and would be seen as callous and even cowardly, given that the Mexica alone far outnumbered the Conquistadors and Tlaxcallans, who the Aztec had been beating up on for a while, and especially since the Conquistadors themselves got their asses kicked by the Tlaxcallans.

15/?

Pic of Maya suspension bridge

I browse Yea Forums, Yea Forums, /vp/, /his/, & rarely /toy/ and /m/ casually, most of the time i'm actually just posting about videogames, anime, so those posts of mine (usually) don't stand out, I'll check /k/, /tg/, and Yea Forums for stuff specifically to comment on meso stuff with from time to time

Attached: Yaxchilan Bridge one of if not the first suspension bridges largest for centuaries ACTUALLY MAYA NOT (650x570, 72K)

lord of the rings

just do it for fucks sake

>us civil war
would probably generate even less interest than 3chinkdoms

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bronze age

Attached: war18.jpg (800x587, 398K)

Empire 2 but early modern warfare/Thirty Years War era would be great

cont:

The cities that allied with Cortes did so primarily within this sort of framework: Working with other states to take out political rivals and further their own interests. You can even draw comparisons between Tlaxcala, the Conquistadors, and the other city-states they worked with to war that forged the Aztec Empire itself I talked about earlier: Tenochtitlan was able to court Texcoco and Tlacopan into taking out Azacapotzalco after the death of Tezozomoc and the politically radical actions of Maxtla, assassinating his heir and the kings of other cities: Maintaining your authority was a careful balancing act of being able to project political force and show off enough to be both feared and respected, but take it too far or don't take it far enough, and other people will conspire against you

You even see stuff like thhis earlier on, the city of Cempoala promising to help Cortes, but only after they take out a nearby Aztec fort in this city... except there was no fort, and the city was just the biggest rival Cempoala had, and then the Cempolans leading the Conquistadors into enemy Tlaxcallan territory "accidentally" to get the Conquistadors attacked to be rid of them, with the Tlaxcallans infamously BTFOing the Conquistadors only to spare them at the last minute to use them against the Aztecs, and then as the Tlaxcallans and Conquistadors were passing through the city of Cholula on the way, the Tlaxcallans told cortes they "Overheard" the cholulans planning a suprise attack, so Cortes massacres the population while the Tlaxcalans raze the city and prop up a pro Tlaxacala political faction and that totally doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the Cholulans recently switched from an ally to Tlaxcala to being allied with the Azetcs just before this

16/?

I plan on talking more about that stuff when I address 's final line, but if you are impatient, I can whip something up for you, let me know

Before anything else it needs new working engine.After that i wanna see TK style but not being watered down for the masses and to be set in the Iliad and Troy wars.

how would that work?

Pike and shot total war. Or go full meme and have the next Saga game be Troy: Total War with heroes like 3K, and the Warhammers.

Attached: Trojan-war-and-Roman[1].jpg (1111x719, 187K)

Warhammer III

Attached: 1514080478304.png (800x800, 372K)

cont:

You see this sort of thing all the time, both during the campaign against the Aztec and in the following decades against the city-states in Western Mexico and the Yucatan: From the context of the more hands off political norms of Mesoamerica where cities were discrete entities that retained their status as a polity even when a part of a larger empire, Allying with or ceding authority to Spain made sense, and you even see them do stuff like giving key Conquistadors wives and daughters as an attempted political marriages, which ties into what I said in post 10 and 11

On the flip side, Spain was operating on their own imperialistic norms, and just saw the native states and kingdoms and swearing fealty to the crown and now as subjects, and the attempted political marriages as offerings of concubines; leading to situations where both Native states and Spain thought they were in charge of the same areas and those cities or towns paying tribute to both. Had Mesoamericans understood european political norms, they would have never allied with them to begin with

Also I just realized I never explained what this has to do with the smallpox line: Basically my point here was that smallpox outbreak and indeed the conquest of mexico as a whole was reliant on nqative states allying with conquistadors and forming the majority of armies used, and that had this not happened Cortes and his men would have been taken out before the force that had the smallpox infected indivual arrived to arrest cortes, and without the intial foothold cortes's success gave spain, there would be no sustained spanish occpuation to cause further outbreaks. Again, though, I talk more about this all in desuarchive.org/his/thread/5526254/#5526329 and here boards.fireden.net/v/thread/441551507/#441565260 ; and I wanted to focus in on all this realpolitik stuff because in the context of a Mesoamerican strategy game it'd need to be a major focus

17/?

why?

I haven't played a Total War game since the first Medieval. Interested in picking up one of the Shogun games, which should I get? Graphics don't matter to me.

>pre columbian war game
Why do autists have the worst fucking ideas for total war games? asian total war games are shitted on for lacking variety imagine a fucking game about naked tribesmen with no horses

What would they even do though?
Aren't all the warhammer factions already in it?

Warhammer 2 already feels WAY to fucking big, it takes ages to cycle turns, and like 10 turns to get anyway at the minimum.

Shogun 2 normal for a more medieval-style game, Fall of the Samurai for a more empire-style game.

Warfare stops being symmetrical formation post 19th century you dense motherfucker.
It will simply not work with TW formula.Company of heroes engine would on the other hand.

They should do a South America or Africa in the BC era.
I would be interested to play a WW2 era total war, but it wouldn't really fit their typical design, I'm not sure they could pull it off.

cool, thanks

Rome 2 is good.
Radious mod makes it better.

Total War is a terrible series. The AI is still dumb as a sack of shit and they focus on ebin fighting animations instead of strategic depth.

Which is realistic since barbarians were dumb

>naked tribesmen

Attached: 1512945556798.jpg (1099x889, 501K)

>Age of Atlantis
they wouldn't because then people would question their history

>redoran front guard
>some telvani sorcerers in the back dropping mad spells
>house dres slavers pop out of the tree line, start mowing down infantry
>guar cavalry run down routes
I imagine they'd have a hard time getting units, especially cavalry, but itd be good shit.

Nice furry tribesman

maps with python, battles as usual

Rome TW 1 has more grand strategy than Imperator

it should include elements from the Ilias

Post apocalyptic total war sounds like it could be pretty fun with a mad max like setting. Clans with hockey gear armor, stop sign shields and makeshift weapons fight it out to control scarce strategic resources on the map. Unit sizes would probably be kinda small which would make some mad though. But its a fun little silly idea

Attached: Air warrior.jpg (571x400, 45K)

still the most interesting setting that hasn't been done

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We all love mesobro here and he is right. This would be THE best total war. I haven't replied because I was fuvking sleeping

It really isn't

name 1 (one) better

Attached: 205cd8f05c9bbbb6cb4b63b80a6a7f6bf60058bce6005700724c35764660710f.jpg (678x515, 189K)

It shouldn't be a sword/shield/spear ooga booga shitbag

A Total War starting from 1800-very early 1900 would be grand, since Fall of the Samurai was great

They really shouldn't cash in with Medieval III immediately, they need a real franchise once Warhammer dies down

dude aztec niggers were already in a total war game and they were boring as fuck

I'm about to start to post talking about the variety of weapons and armor used: They DID have formal armor, weapon types, military uniforms, formations, etc, they weren't tribespeople fighting naked or in small bands or whatever.

The lack of calvary and there only being a single type of siege weapon (siege towers) would indeed be problematic for a TW game though

I don't actually think a Mesoamerican TW would be that great, as I'll get to, but that was a half assed expansion pack

You really aren't helping

also cont:

>nobody has armor besides shitty leather

This line is specifically about armor, but i'll post about military complexity in general (+ other stuff I said i'd get to), but i'll start with armor

Speaking for central mesoamerican cultures in particular, such as the Aztec, the basic form of armor (junior soldiers who had not yet captured an enemy would just be wearing breechclothes) would vests, tunics, or suits of armor called Ichcahuipilli (see in pic twice in the top right and in the bottom right), which were basically made of cotton, maguey fibers etc made into many interwoven layers, like european gambeson with the garment as a whole being multiple inches thick/. These were also apparently soaked in briney water and left to dry so salt and other minerals would cryalistlize inside of it to make it tougher. Anyways, these were pretty effective, with many Spaniards chose to abandon their own armor in favor of it due to the climate (remember this, as i'll be coming back to it)

Higher ranked soldiers in elite noble guilds/units, would also have suits called Tlahuiztli worn over the Ichcahuipilli; which were full body onsie suits made of a thick cotton base and many, many thousands of feathers making a variety of colors and patterns, typically fasionhed after animals or mythological creatures (they weren't typically actually animal skins). The spines of the feathers all laid on top of one another were also functional in terms of being protective, the slick spines causing blows to glance or be cushioned, but these were also status items and used for identification, as as you can imagine an entire suit made of tens of thousands of shimmering, iridescent feathers glittering in the sun is pretty attention grabbing. These would, depending on the rank/warrior guild also be accompanied by a corresponding wooden helmets called Cuacalalatli, which were likewise covered in feathers

18/?

Attached: Attire from the Aztec and other Nahua, Central Mexican groups. EVEN MORE DOWNSCALED AND COMPRESSED.j (3443x2256, 3.14M)

>Naked tribesmen with clubs
>Naked tribesmen with spears
Wow such variety

Are you implying a total war bronze age game wouldn't also be mostly half naked people with spears and clubs?

Attached: total war variety.jpg (998x771, 283K)

Yeah that's why (east) asia is a bad setting too

Only because the devs never bother to put in the effort of designing different troop types that serve different purposes.
Neither Shogun nor Three Kingdoms seem to get that a huge variety of weapons existed, some for very specific purposes. You have your standard spear, pikes, halberd, swords, axes, bows, and clubs, but on top of that you also get things like sword-breakers, hook swords, butterfly swords, staffs, fucking repeating crossbows, etc. etc. etc.

>most likely tier
med 2, warhammer 3

>too good to be true tier
empire 2

>never ever tier
lotr
witcher kingdoms

You literally need to frequent one more board to have the exact same boards as me.
Ever head to Yea Forums?

cont:

There were also suits called Ehuatl which were used by royalty and to other individuals in command positons which was more ceremonial (at least for the Mexica, they seemed to have been more widespread for other grouops). These tended to be like Tlahuiztli in that they were suits made out of a thick cotton base with woven feathers, but they weren't full body suits, being just a vest or tunic and then a skirt, made from leather straps, as seen in pic related, or as with the guy in the blue suit with the helmet with "ears" in the middle right of ( who is actually Netzahualcoyotl,)

You had shields called Chimalli of various kinds, being either made of reeds or woods backing, a leather padding/cushion your arm rested on alongside straps, and layers of woven cotton/maguey like the armor over the backing, and then finally the feather mosiac on top of it as well; though some shields were just straight wood/cane; and shields also sometimes had a fringe of leather strapsor feathers on the underside; and fancier ones might have gold or copper ornaments. Specific pattenrs/insigina would be used based on rank and battle regiment, and many high ranking soldiers would have banners/flags mounted to their backs in elaborate patterns and shape which was again used for identification or troop coordination, much like the flags used in japanese warfare or the helmet ornaments and standards used by romans; though separate standard bearers were also used for this purpose

19/?

there's not a single naked person in that image you cuck and i'll get to weapons shortly

While I dispute that there's not any less visual variety or functional variety in weapons or armor for infantry in Mesoamerica compared to most settings, I do agree the lack of calvary and siege weapons is a big issue, which is why my closing/conclusion posts will be outlining why Mesoamerica is better suited to a paradox entry, not a TW one

Attached: Aztec shields and standards.jpg (2000x3977, 3.99M)

*single naked soldier

Would a total war that focuses on ships rather then infantry work?

US civil war would be GOAT wouldn't know how to implement planes without it feeling weird.

game?

Mate, naval warfare as such is an enigma even for the modern navies around the world.
Let alone simple games.

Riverine warfare, shore warfare, sea warfare.
The massive influence of the elements.
The fact that water is actually just as varied as ground terrain, but you can't just show the bottom of the water with ships floating in mid air, can you?
The massive importance of water currents and air currents depending on the type of vessel.
Shallow and deep water, marine life wear and tear, supplies for the troops.

You could definitely make a game of it, but you'd be drawing on literal blank paper since it's basically something that has never been done any deeper than the simple Port Royale style clashes.

sdsa

this

Imagine being so insecure about your own history you post shit like this

What's insecure about posting information?

Also, a reminder that I have/am saying is mainly in reference to the Aztec and other civilizations in the middle third of the region. and during the postclassic; this wouldn't apply towards, say, the classical maya for example (it would to some extent but not entirely to the postclassical maya, etc), or to the Purepecha empire, etc: Mainly Aztec, Zapotec, Mixtec, Huastec Totonac, etc; though even these had their own specific elements.You can also see various more unique/less standard types of outfits in the top right of Anyways, as far as weapons, you obviously have the Macuahuitl: These would be thick, hardword clubs with flat faces and obsidian blades along the edges. The flat faces would be used for parrying, deflecting blows, and blunt strikes (such as to incapacitate the enemy for capture to sacrifice later) They could range from 2-3 feet long, to, based on the last surviving one, as seen in the image, 5-6 feet long. Also noteworthy is how the blades in the surviving one are all flush with each other with no gaps, forming an even cutting edge

Beyond the macuahuitl, you had simple, single pointed spears, as well as other more specialized polearms: The Tepoztopilli was a sort of Halbred, shaped sort of like a normal spear, with a broad, spade shaped wooden head that was lined with blades like the macuahuitl, and were used for slashing, not just thrusting. You see these in in addition to normal spears, though the last surviving one (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tepoztopilli#/media/File:Tepoztopilli_Aztec_spear_Armeria_Real_collection_in_Madrid.png) has a much larger head to it. There also seems to have been some sort of Glaive equivalent ot the Macuahuitl, with a similar circket bat shaped wooden club lined with blades at the end of a pole

20/?

Imagine being so insecure about other cultures that you assume everybody knowledgeable about them belongs to that culture. I'm not a spic, m8

Attached: macuahuitl size frame.png (784x1024, 955K)

Oh, it's you again. Do you have some kinda script that pings you when an appropriate thread or post crops up? That aside, why didn't the Central and South Americans ever really grasp the more advanced points of metallurgy? They were hardly stupid and certainly had an understanding of mineral properties, mining and smelting. Why did they continue to use woods, leathers and fucking gold of all things instead of irons or steels? Did they lack the proper minerals?

Medieval 3 fucking WHEN?

Attached: Timur the LAME.png (633x758, 50K)

With fucking SHIP COMBAT

id buy a bronze age saga if i have to gimmme anything i want that barley economy and funny hats

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I've seen all those videos that recently appeared on YouTube all at once about three kingdoms period in China. They made me realise that three kingdoms would be a sick setting for TW

Three Kingdoms is the most overdone setting in all of Asia for a reason. However, it still needs to be made with passion.
CA just seem to be flailing around like a bunch of retards, unsure of what they're doing.

That's fine and all but where will civ 7 take place?

As far as I can tell shingoku period seems to recieve more attention outside of it's home country

cont:

There were also various other sorts of clubs and maces beyond the more sword-like Macuahuitl: The Cuahuitl was a sort of sharpened wooden baton, similar to what you see in Polynesian cultures; Cuauhololli or Quauhololli (Nahuatl words have no consistent spellings) were spherical maces with wood, stone, or allegedly copper heads; Huitzauhqui were more standard wooden clubs, though some had stone studs or flanges, and the Macuahuitzoctli was a sort of morning star-mace, with spikes on each side and on the tip. There's also some talk and depictions of a sort of copper or bronze axe, but I think this is more a tool and ceremonial items then weapons: Metal really wasn't used for weapons but you DO see them sometime in luxary tools like tweezers, knives, fishhooks, etc, and Celt-axehead like ceremonial objects made of jade, and once it became a thing, metal, have a long history in the region, including even as a currency. Knives were a thing but obviously not as a primary weapon

The primary ranged weapon was the Atlatl, but bows and slings were also used. Atlatl were seen as more refined and cultured weapons, wheras bows were more associated with the Chichimeca and seen as barbaric and primitive. To touch on other cultures for a tiny bit, the Maya had some wooden armor, as well as some jade clubs. Some of the cultures down near chiapas/belize had some like 10-12+ foot long obsidian lined lances as well.

21/?

I browse Yea Forums, Yea Forums, etc to talk about vidya and anime, when I happen to see people posting misinfo I just correct it.

>metallurgy
I'm planning on addressing this in a few posts but if 404's before then shoot my an email at my throwaway at [email protected] and I'll give you a detailed reply

Kings & Generals's? His videos on the Aztec and Maya are pretty damn on point, along with Invicta and the Aztlan Historian they are really raising the bar on Mesoamerican history content on youtube.

Attached: Gilded and Engraved Aztec Atlatl from the British Museum.jpg (750x1928, 222K)

Sengoku practically doesn't exist outside of Japan, mate.
Samurai, rounin and all that jazz is by and large Edo-based going off of the Japanese equivalent of Wuxia (think the pseudo-real medieval Europe world used as a basis for anything from children tales to Hollywood movies) I forgot the name of.

Historical sengoku doesn't exist outside of anime and Japanese vidya.

Wasn't Clavell's Shogun a best seller?

You can play the paradox games in one campaign through that timeline, probably even earlier once they add the save converter to imperator. Takes 4 different games to do so though.

You know the guy who wrote it based on (shock!) Edo period, right? It's a good book, but it has fuck all to do with actual sengoku.
Worse yet, it has this downright mystically bad reputation among Japanese historians. Think 300 of Japanology.

I've seen those stupid suits of Mycenaean bronze armor during my degree. There is absolutely no way people wore them in battle. There are hardly any joints for moving your arms. It would be like the younger brother from A Christmas Story, waddling around unable to move your limbs

They look really close to armors which have appeared in China and Korea, though.
It could always be some exaggerated pieces which had slightly less articulation than the real thing, no?

bump

Lord of the Rings Third Age.

isn't that all strategy games though?

imagine being this much of a brainlet

this

WE

cont:

Conches and drums were used for communicating orders and changes to formation. We don't know exactly about their formations, but for the Aztec at least, we think their formations tended to be wide and linear, with the ends using Tepoztopilli and the middles with macuahuitl and maces/clubs, and they opened combat with volleys of projectiles prior to moving into melee combat, with higher ranks up front and lower ones in back, and they'd cycle through them to rest and replenish troops over the course of battle. There are some records of stuff like feigned retreats, ambushes, and other specific tactics and maneuvers. Long distance traders and merchants (pochteca) would also be employed as a spy network, and apparently formal spies (quimichtin) were sent out ahead of invasions. A series of runners were used for long distance communication.

Each city district (which had their own local judge, school, police force, and other municipal systems; most core cities in the empire used a calpulli system) called Calpulli, would raise soldiers and porters. Depending on the occasion troops from other cities would be marshelled, such as from the other ruling cities, all across core cities in the valley of mexico, or strategically from cities along the path to the campaign destination. Warfare was done seasonally, in the winter months, as during the summer men were needed to work farms. Soldiers would be organized units of 8000 warriors, xiquipilli, and could be divided further by multiples of primarily 20; with the next primary division being groups of 400 men; though generally speaking the troops raised by a calpulli would be stuck together as a division and it's subdivisions, with it's own leader leading troops, their on insigina, etc.

Army sizes ranged from a few thousand for smaller engagements/campaigns, which Tenochtitlan itself could easily supply, to 200,000-300,000, which would need to be pooled from multiple cities.

21/?