Will there ever be a good first person medieval action role-playing video game?

PVK2 is shit, but what jap games are you talking about?

skyrim with mods
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PVK2 is great, breakdown is great

shit game

>dude oblivion + kick
stop, zoomers, its trash. Everyone knows about this game, and you didnt even mention Condemend or Xeno Clash. The fact is 1st person melee does not resonate with people, which is why it's dead. Until VR improves and can actually take advantage of the perspective it's not gonna happen

nah dude, it plays like ass.

>Bannelord

cancellord

Witcher 3 with 1st person option.

still no reasons why, lemme guess you thought rolls worked like in dark souls, couldn't manage your rays, manipulate physics or even do basic team work

I just looked up some vids, game looks like if you merged chivalry with quake or some shit.

if game manages to pull it off that fine, but then i want an instant replay camera so i can watch it from third person perspective and i can enjoy seeing the moves and abilities being performed.

gothic games were already around almost 20 years ago, user. holy shit, 20 years ago, how the time flies

also, deliverance is my personal goty

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Bros, how do I get into Skyrim if I hate fantasy but don't want to skip the story?

wait no, i've missed a "first person" bit

Why the fuck would you get into Skyrim if you hate fantasy?

That looks fucking cool.

Because I love RPGs and New Vegas and Fallout 3, I just don't like fantasy. Why these two genres have to be so inexorably linked, I do not know.

Don't even bother, the civil war questline doesnt have much fantasy shit but its so barebones and the writing is retarded.

KCD was a bunch of fun but I never ended up finishing it. Have you played the DLC, if so would it be worth starting a new game with all of the DLC? assuming i can find a place to pirate just the DLC

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>it was only ever good in japanese games
First person melee combat? I hope you're not talking about King's Field.

Or just melee combat in general?

God I love zeno clash

chivalry is indeed a rip off of it, yes, that is correct.

both because why not

Not yet, probably gonna check it out soon though.

hey, i had the same bug once

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People give Bethesda a lot of shit for their combat but I think they've made the right decision. TES aren't fighting games and swordplay isn't the focus of them, better to just make combat mindless and simple so you can just power through it.

I'm reinstalling it nonetheless, DLCs don't seem to add too much from what I could tell from the steam descriptions. I hope they've optimized it since release, I would like to have more than ~45-50 fps if I could.

>TES aren't fighting games
then what the fuck are they? They don't have much in the way of roleplaying or quests that don't involve lots of fighting. And for how prominent it is, they could have done more to it than just press the attack button over and over because that gets boring really quick.

do you really think that looks like oblivion combat or are you pretending to be retarded

They're exploration, character building, and looting games, and they're not that far off from classic western roleplaying either if you compare them to the dungeon-oriented premade campaign kind of D&D stuff that used to be pretty common back before more freeform stuff took over the market.

Then you must be retarded because there aren't any Japanese made games with good first person melee combat.

>both because why not
Because King's Field/Shadow Tower has very, very bad combat and no other Japanese first person melee games come to mind.

Maybe Dragon Quest Swords. If that counts. That fucking rail-slasher relic. It was okay.

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>he never played maken x
>he never played breakdown
why do skypes hate video games?

Not that guy but damn son you are one major fucking pseud. You can't do any of those things without engaging in TES's shit-tier combat.
Let's take a quick look at why you explore, progress your character and look
>explore
To find enemies to kill and things to help you kill them
>leveling up
To become better at combat
>Looting
Gaining gear to fight enemies or things to sell to buy stuff to fight your enemies

Shit nigger, you're so retarded it hurts.

as expected from gothic fans

>Skyrim
>RPG
Which time line are you living in

>he never played maken x
Was going to reply with some smarmy comment about that not being first-person, but turns out I played the re-release that was third-person only.

Go figure. That's one way to adapt a game. Just change the camera completely. Haven't played Breakdown at all though, you got me there.

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I'll always have you because you just don't know shit about video games.

I liked the game. Cept for the bugs

hi sseth

the timeline where thousand of games are called jRPGs despite not being RPGs at all, just visual novels with turnbased combat

so yeah, Skyrim is pretty much a hardcore RPG when shit like Chrono Trigger and FFs are called RPGs

jrpgs are rpgs

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>walk from one city to another
>get attacked
>explore some cool cave
>get attacked
>go to get some item
>have to fight to get it
>join organization
>every activity involves fighting
I mean, you're right that it has exploration, character building, and loot gathering, but all of it involves fighting. All of it. Even the thieves guild shit, and the mage shit involves lots of fighting, when they shouldn't necessarily. All of it gets pretty repetitive.

jrpgs are rpgs

Mordhau.

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so is The Division

if you ever claimed the combat in KCD was bad you're the cancer and the reason games keep getting dumbed down

no, but jrpgs are rpgs

no, but THe Divison is an rpg

>mordhau
>good combat
>good game
>RPG
Nope.

crying about it won't change it, jrpgs are rpgs. wrpgs are bad imitations.

hmmmm

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dont care wikipedo

>wrpgs are bad imitations.
thankfully wrpgs have gameplay value unlike your glorified VNs

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>rpgs are about stacking stats and rolling dice, not about roleplaying
ok nigger.

What value? Being diet RPGs that only began to get recognition during the late 6th gen before being flushed down the drain by the late 7th gen? WRPGs aren't real RPGs. Wizardry is a JRPG.

there is 0 roleplaying in j"RPG"s
i always love how delusional you weebs are

being this retarded thinking that mount and blade has good gameplay

more than any W"rpg" in the past 15 years. Truly a dead genre. However I understand your metrics are based on how much homosexual romance you can have, therefore you'll find nothing of value in the superior genre.

simon says combat is deep to the WRPGlet.

Ahahahah nothing can fix that garbage combat

There is infinitely more roleplaying to the persona games than the TES and Fallout franchises.

>more than any W"rpg" in the past 15 years.
sorry but you cant go negative value its either 0 roleplaying like every JRPG ever created or positive value like WRPGs since they actually let you roleplay

truly the pinnacle of RPGs are WRPGs since you guys are still insanely butthurt over Skyrim and Witcher 3 which had such amazing competitions such as FFXV also knowns as "hold 1 button to fight while still offering 0 roleplaying" and Persona 5 aka "press X to progress the story in yet another glorified VN with 0 roleplaying"
best part is that the 2 jap games didnt do anything special once again so nobody gives a fuck about them while you clench your butt and fists everytime you hear Skyrim and Witcher because japan LITERALLY cannot compete

>461741270
ahahahahahahahahahha
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
>press X to advance text
>roleplaying
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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>skyrim
>role playing
do you actually believe that, or are you just pretending to be retarded?

>Defends skyrim and the shitter 3
holy shit that's pathetic.
>can't even reply to people correctly
as if you needed any more proof wrpgtrannies are not from here.

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nice strawman :)
>instantly gets butthurt over skyrim and witcher3
lo and behold, i was completely right

whats even better you are trying to "btfo" me with a WRPG TOPKEK

>dipshits in this thread seriously trying to claim there are no good first person melee combat games

Eat absolute shit

Mordhau
Dark Messiah
Mount and Blade
Elder Scrolls

Yeah, it's not 100% like swinging a sword IRL, but odds are, you've never fucking done that. Here's a tip: combat depends on pre-existing strategies and movements (these are analogous to the types of swings / dodges / blocks you'd get in a videogame) and people don't stray from those if they enjoy winning. I promise you, it's more realistic than you think at times.

you listed only shit. That's quite a combo

>w"rpg"tranny still has no ground to stand on
jrpgs are just better at this point, better game play, better role playing, better writing, better music. It's embarrassing for you boys.

>Mordhau
>Dark Messiah
>Mount and Blade
They're janky as fuck.
>Elder Scrolls
Are you serious?

>Give four examples of good melee combat
>"lol those don't count"

It was nice beating you.

Oh, so you are pretending to be retarded. Ok

If you don't think those games are examples of good first person melee combat, odds are, you don't like the genre at all. It's okay to just not like something; it doesn't mean that something is bad.

This. The best you can do is go the KC:D road and make it more role playing than anything.

Where did you list games with good melee combat? I only see shit ones.

I dont care what anyone says Dark Messiah was fucking awesome. Most satisfying melee in any game.

Mountain blade is for the other stuff. Mordhau is fun for the shenanigans but is still suffering from the same janky shit as the other games. Never played Dark messiah, but it also looks janky and fun for the shenanigans. TES swordfighting is straight up shit.

In Mordhau you can damage limbs specifically, and sever heads / duck swings thanks to swings with precise hitboxes. You can riposte, cut hands off, knock a weapon out of someone's arm, cancel swings to fake defense... You may not like it, but this is well-designed combat that's fun.

In Dark Messiah, there's also proximity-based damage, and an extreme rag doll system that, while not all that realistic, is very, very enjoyable. There's also backstabs and finishers if you like being tacticool.

For Elder Scrolls and Mount and Blade, there's directional blocking and attacking, as well as mounted combat incorporated into the melee system. You can fight using your environment.

Really, I listed all of these because I know you're not going to provide feasible reasons for why any of these games are shit beyond "lol I don't like it", and I know this is Yea Forums, but I just had to get baited. Ooh well.

>In Mordhau you can damage limbs specifically
and it's still a janky chilvary-like that tries to be realistic and doesn't understand why this makes for shit melee combat design.
>In Dark Messiah
there's enemies that ignore hit stun, enemies that when hit stunned will not have their attack cancelled so you get damaged anyway, enemies where their melee hitscan ray is drawn way farther down from their attack damaging you despite it clearly being out of range. Play better fucking games.
>For Elder Scrolls and Mount and Blade
play better fucking games.

Yeah, I had very low expectations for what your responses would be, but I didn't know they'd be THIS devoid of substance. Man, that was terrible.

>and it's still a janky chilvary-like that tries to be realistic and doesn't understand why this makes for shit melee combat design
Simply untrue

run away little boy.

Oh it's pretty awful. That's why it's bleeding players. You're probably one of those retards that thought mouse waggle made Chivalry better, aren't you?

Run from someone who said absolutely nothing to my post? The only thing I saw in there was some problem you had with Dark Messiah where you got hit by enemies that you knocked down. Sorry to hear that? How does that diminish the game's enjoyment for you? It obviously isn't the norm, as I've never experienced that.

>Skyrim
>Roleplaying
With Requiem, Live Another Life Alternative Starts, Frostfall and some other mods Skyrim is immersive as fuck role playing experience

Just wait for the mod support.

>as I've never experienced that.
Probably because you have no argument against it. It's an issue with the engine and the fact the game was just never patched thanks to ubisoft. It's well documented the issues the game has and how unfinished it is. You failed to substantiate why any of what you said makes these games good. The crit system in general is garbage and the damage scaling is fucked. 6+ plunge stabs will be enough to kill a ragdolled enemy, but this says nothing about the combat which as described before is buggy, inconsistent, has enemies which operate outside of the players controllable states and ignores the rules of the game which you are restricted to. It's basically broken on every level.

How's Enderal?

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>needing to heavily mod a literal hundred million dollar game just to be slightly immersed

>You failed to substantiate why any of what you said makes these games good

The argument is about first person melee combat. I'm listing what makes their melee combat systems good. You seem like you're being intentionally retarded, here.

The combat is plenty consistent. In fact, the combat's consistent enough that it's the very first thing people talk about when they talk about the game, for better or for worse. You say bugs, but wavedashing in Melee (smelly day lol) is a bug. Who cares if it's inconsistent? Are you autistic? Have fun with it, dipshit.

I thought the combat was fun but I went mace and simply BTFO anyone with one hit to the head. I wasn't autistic enough to master sword combat with all of the combos etc.

People shitting on FPS melee combat don't realize that sometimes the most simple things are the funnest. You don't know shit until you get an Invincibility power up and chainsaw through several enemies in DOOM (1993). It's a basic holding down of M1, but goddamn is it satisfying.

>'m listing what makes their melee combat systems good
No you're describing the combat at its basest and with a lot of inaccuracies no less. You point out how mordhau uses gimmicky chivalry style combat and how you can riposte and cancel swings like in shitalry. It's your generic "realistic" western melee combat. It's got a low TTK so each encounter is fast, punishes mistakes and doesn't really give any chance for recovery, making combat remarkably basic despite all the little things you can do. It doesn't give any room to breathe. You then go on to point out how dark messiah has proximity based damage (it doesn't, all damage values are identical for melee hits at all points of the body) as well as a "very enjoyable" ragdoll system which in reality it's a goofy physics showcase that results in repetitive grunting from the enemies, trivializing with spikes and how the game has features that let you avoid using the combat system at all. Then you describe the simon says elder scrolls combat which is just awful. Directional combat is remarkably shallow and has very little you can really do. It needs more abstraction, but mount & blade with its physics gimmicks doesn't really do much to satisfy this. It doesn't have any meaningful movement options, no meaningful weapon attributes that allow significant variance in combat as all melee combat regardless of weapon types behaves by the same rules, making it trivial to parry a two handed great sword with the tip of a sewing needle.

You got explanations twice and just don't like them. The combat in these games is utter shit. Play. Better. Games.

Not him, but saying mordhau isn't similar to chivalry is being out right disingenuous. The devs are all ex-chiv players who set out to make a better chivalry, and they did, but it is still very much a similar game. Hell, the only reason i'm not playing mordhau now is because I played 1k+ hours of chivalry and ~150 hours of mordhau since alpha 2017 but I don't want to invest that kind of time in such a similar style game again.
also the playerbase of skilled players is almost exactly the same and I didn't like half of them in the first place

>the timeline where thousand of games are called jRPGs despite not being RPGs at all, just visual novels with turnbased combat

This is a stupid argument. The Ultima series, Might and Magic series, Wizardry series, etc also had turn-based combat. Were those games not RPGs? Are JRPGs simply not RPGs in comparison simply because of a stronger narrative?

When I said proximity damage in Dark Messiah, I was talking about traps and spell aoe's, you autistic bastard. Your main gripe with Mordhau is that the melee doesn't give any room to breathe? Sounds great, though, right? Imagine a melee system of fighting where you COULDN'T make people feel overwhelmed. Being able to put the fear of God in someone is absolutely fun as hell in terms of pretend combat.

As for the bit about meaningful movement options... You can use the grapple hook to create ropes to ride around arenas. That seemed interesting enough for me when I played. "Directional combat is really shallow"... Lol, as opposed to NO directional combat? Do you want a first person melee game or not? It needs directional input to be good for that, or at least, feel like an FPS to some extent. As for the ragdolls in Dark Messiah being goofy...sounds like you just hate fun, chief.

This is the very first post I've gotten from you that's an explanation. Your explanation failed on all fronts, and outed you as a shitter. Stop posting, dude.

>slightly immersed
Modded to taste, nothing comes close to Skyrim. Who gives a shit about the vanilla game, it's nothing but garbage meme material for normies.

>immersive as fuck role playing experience

Taking immersion into account, RDR2 and GTA5 are RPGS, too. Even when taking things like stat building into account, that argument still stands. Skyrim is as much of an RPG as GTA is by that logic.

If it's GTA Online, yeah, it can be a very good roleplaying game. The offline mode, I wouldn't say so. Modded Skyrim where you can escape the Dragonborn conundrum would be a very good RPG, as well. RDR2, I'm not sure where you're getting immersion from that game, but it is a good game at least

>weebs calling WRPG's a pale imitation when the only reason why their piss poor excuses for "games" exist is due to western RPG's

Mordhau and Elder Scrolls do not have good combat.

>RDR2, I'm not sure where you're getting immersion from that game, but it is a good game at least

It's open world where you can do anything you want given the setting. There are optional quests, loot, and the ability to improve your character via killing baddies and performing tasks. The game is a cowboy larper's dream. It's as much of a "western RPG" as Skyrim but isn't traditionally considered one because of the wild west, I guess. The only thing that differentiates western RPGs from other games is the setting and theme by this point.

The big problem with that is you play as an established character. You can immerse yourself in the character, but you're not really playing a role you created, and that's the distinction I think a game needs in order to consider itself an RPG. That's why I don't really agree with the JRPG genre as a whole, but this is just my personal opinion.

Also, keep in mind that games like Diablo 3 are somehow considered RPGs while being far more shallow.

>The big problem with that is you play as an established character.

In Ultima, you play as the Avatar who is a clearly established character throughout the series. Are those games no longer considered RPGs? Contemporary western RPGs have blurred the line so much that the term "RPG" has become subjective by this point.

I would disagree, you don't need to create a role yourself for it to be a roleplaying game. It helps, sure, but I think if the game is immersive enough for you to associate yourself with the character, pre-established or not, it would be a roleplaying game. Assuming there are choices for you to imprint yourself onto said character, of course.

Yeah, fair point, but it should be noted, RDR2 gives you a specific name and an actual persona. In Ultima, the title of "Avatar" is a very basic one, and not at all specific. You can be a character of any kind. In RDR2, the distinction here is you can only choose what you do, not what you are.

This is another reason Skyrim falls onto my list of games that I'm iffy about being a proper RPG, because it does the same thing as Ultima with the Dragonborn system.

>You can be a character of any kind. In RDR2, the distinction here is you can only choose what you do, not what you are.

So then Kingdom Come: Deliverance isn't an RPG? Again, open world games with a clearly defined character in specific role (a bastard, peasant child of a lord in this instance) blurs the line too much.

so there are actually intelligent people on Yea Forums

you are absolutely right, elder scrolls series is popular exactly because the combat is very simple, yet feels still direct and realistic enough to beat out looter clickers like diablo
that kind of combat simply appeals to way more people, regardless of how bad it objectively is compared to games like Dark Souls

almost anyone who bothers enough to talk video games online and write multiple sentences about the combat system will automatically be someone with higher expectations than walking over to an enemy and spamming the attack button
so naturally the combat system will always get shit on in online discussion, while the majority of players, casuls, won't even talk about it and is fine with it, unable to even imagine that a combat system could be more complex

In my opinion? KCD isn't an RPG, the way I define the genre. Then again, a lot of things aren't RPG's the way I define them. At the very least, though, if we go by the term's very basic definition; "Role-playing game", practically EVERYTHING is an RPG.

The Witcher series also suffers from the same faults. There are countless other open world western games that are also considered RPGs while having a predefined protagonist pigeonholed into a specific role. Just take a look at Mass Effect.

I would say the way that the 'RPG' genre is classified by the majority of consumers is a more or less a game with quests and stats to level up, despite that not being the only thing that defines an RPG game.
People call Souls games RPGs and also games like Diablo and PoE RPGs despite not having any real roleplaying elements outside of leveling up and completing quests.

Yes, and most of the people who play these games and the people who make them fail to realize that their audience isn't really creating and playing a role, like the original terminology of RPG intended, but rather, are just stopping at playing a role.

Which fits, and is fine. It's totally correct. It's not wrong to call these games RPG's by any stretch of the definition, but they're not what I think about when I consider the notion of roleplaying.

New Vegas is a legit RPG.

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Well, then we have come full circle if the only thing that differentiates RPGs from other open world games is stat distribution and an ambiguous main character. Even sports games follow this--I guess any random WWE or MMA game is a roleplaying game since you grind stats and defeat low level mobs in order to ultimately work up to the final boss/the fucker that wears the belt.

I would simply reduce it to having numerical stats (not necessarily skills and abilities) that the player can improve based on his choices over the course of the game.

that way sekiro would be an action game and dark souls would be an rpg

then by definition sports games should be sport themed rpgs

it's just that most people associate medieval stuff with rpgs

Yes, actually. A WWE game is more of an RPG than the Witcher 3, RDR2, or Skyrim. Can you believe that?

For the normal consumer, those are all that matter. RPG games are "in" right now, so of course the genre is going to be simplified to pull in more players who pretend to like "RPGs", despite those games not being anything like actual RPGs. Until the a new meme genre appears to take light off of modern RPGs. you can expect more games that have random RPG mechanics slapped onto it so it can be labeled an "RPG".
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with modern RPGs, but they don't share much in common with what was considered RPGs in the past.

IT'S HENRY EVERYBODY
HENRY'S HERE TO SEE US

>there's enemies that ignore hit stun, enemies that when hit stunned will not have their attack cancelled so you get damaged anyway
You've clearly never played Dark Messiah.

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>then by definition sports games should be sport themed rpgs
They are.
Fantasy football leagues rival even the most intense of DnD autism, that's been known for a decade.

>rpgs are about stacking stats and rolling dice, not about roleplaying
The jap mindset