Fighting games are stagnant. What do they need to evolve and stop being the same game as before? Yes Tekken 7 was a good game. But what's the next step? How can Tekken 8 change things up?
It seems like street fighter got away with making a bad 5th game, that it leaves room for improvement. But other than that, I just really want to see fighting games innovate.
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They need to go back to when they weren't autism simulators, it's the only genre where sitting in training is a prerequisite to learning the game which is bad design no matter how hardcore you want to look on the internet.
fighting game players are never going to be bored of fighting games. they have almost never changed for 30 years, and will probably continue to do so. but why? because most of the community is already satisfied with fighting games the way they are. they don't want them to change and get new metas, because they're already used to what they are now and don't want change. also, people who make fighting games don't want to do something new and innovative, they just want a cash grab every 6 months (fuck arksys).
What's there to "innovate" though, that's really vague, not many other genres can get as much depth as a fighting game can, and different fighters have different kinds of depths.
What the genre needs is a subgenre to come along and show up the parent, giving them lessons to take back to their big name serieses.
Platformers and puzzle games are both better for the existence of the puzzle platformer, RPGs are better due to the war between JRPG and WRPG, and fighting games have... well, platform fighters, but if you ever dare suggest that a. smash bros. isn't the only platform fighter in existence or b. the existence of smash bros. means all platform fighters are poorly balanced shitfests that survive solely on their cast, you get literally murdered.
>What's there to "innovate" though
Exactly. Nothing. The biggest game changer was when virtua fighter came out as the first 3D fighting game. After that, it's been more of the same.
Wait user that's it
We need.. A 4D fighting game
I think it should just keep getting refined and they should keep creating interesting characters within their own systems.
also, VF6 when.
Honestly, if there was an indie game that was like SF2 (HF or ST p much) but was furry it'd blast off like a red rocket.
aren't they already 4D considering how important time is with regards to frames and such?
It's not prerequisite as much as any other genre. It's just that sitting in training is far more lucrative than any other genre and it shows much more. This essentially comes down to practice, and if you don't want to practice than it's entirely on you.
Stop simplifying shit to appeal to casuals.
this. mortal kombat 11 does this. they took out tons of strings, and characters ended up feeling like they weren't complete. but it was all for the normies, so the game didn't seem more "complicated"
mk game? complicated? kek
Autism is going to be a factor in any good competitive game.
You will always get people who go though the deeper systems of the game to get the slightest edge. If its not combos is going to be hitboxes or framedata.
>They need to go back to when they weren't autism simulators
So never?
>We want to appeal to casuals so we'll put in five new mechanics for more experienced players to beat them with
Fighting games are weird.
Did that barneyshit fightan game ever release?
Fighting games need
>AA scale games from devs that aren't scraping by on shoestring budgets but also don't need to sell 5 million copies plus season passes to break even
>original interesting IPs instead of literally nothing but sequels
>more willingness to experiment with mechanics and accepting that a bit of an entry barrier is an ok price to pay for depth when it makes the game more interesting
Them's Fightin' Herds, it's getting sort of close to 1.0, in EA now. It's actually very solid and probably the best example of "heavily simplified but still has everything that makes a fighting game fun," desperately needs another 3-5 characters and to not be banned for no reason
Good hitboxes, physics, dynamic animations, organic combo creation and countering, fighters contacting eachother physically and v
There's plenty of room for improvement but the expertise needed to take fighting games to the "next gen" rely's on genius programming, we're fucked. We need the "skate" of competitive fighters to set a new bar
>this thread again
C'mon vappa OP, just learn to live with not having to reinvent the wheel.
you can make fighting games better, but they will always be the same. good hitboxes, physics, and dynamic animation are all things we definitely want. but that won't change fighting games. you essentially just have the same fighting game, but better than the others.
unironically by taking the smash Melee formula and making an actual good competitive game out if it.
Rivals sucks and Slap is dead
>I just really want to see fighting games innovate
Why? If the game has any kind of input difficulty or learning curve, casuals are never going to play them.
smash only works with Nintendo characters
Reminder that this is actually the best fighting game ever. Even has combos youtube.com
indie kusoge arent actual good competitive games
take that back faggot
Copy Yakuza.
>square, square, square, square, square, triangle
wow, might as well just have a whole game that only uses auto combos.
>fighting games are stagnant
I feel like this is the opinion of someone who only looks at fighting games from a pretty superficial perspective, giving credit to tekken, one of the most stagnant fighting game franchises doesn't help your point either.
No, the open world. Mashing buttons if what you do in fighting games anyways. You find the one cheap shot that works, and you keep repeating that move ad nauseum until you win. Fighting games suck so much ass, they should just copy Battlefield 4 or something. Ditch the archaic fighting game shit, become a conquest based military shooter.
What is there to innovate even?
All i can think of is better online understructure and tutorial system
>mashing buttons is what you do in fighting games anyways
Maybe if you aren't good. It's not hard to use inputs without sperging all over your buttons.
They need more boobs.
>he didnt play Anarchy Reigns
Mortal Kombat Deception already did the open world.
See, you literally cannot have a discussion about invocation in fighting games when people hold misinformed opinions such as this.
we need people to stop shitting on anything that isn't a traditional fighters. fighting games are trying to innovate, the problem is any time someone has a new take on the genre, people expect it to be perfectly balanced on release or trash it for not being a traditional fighter
>they should just copy Battlefield 4 or something. Ditch the archaic fighting game shit
>become a conquest based military shooter.
I know this is bait, but you just sound dumb instead of baiting.
Hitboxes tied to character model
Open stance VS closed stance matters
Stop being afraid of assymetrical moves and heroes
Cooldown moves mixed up with bars
Unsafe moves actually looking unsafe
Game after each match automatically replayes moment where you fucked up and lost most HP, then slaps you in the face with frame data
Crossplay
Using neural network to have actual human like AI in game with proper didficulties from bronze to diamond
Character customisation, but not the absurd penises in soul caliber. Just take ryu and allow player to slap 999 different shirts, pants and hats in any combination they like.
Also it would be cool if you didnt have to spend hours in practice just to learn how to survive safe on block spam from bison or how to counter shit akuma can do but no other character can like angled fireballs mid jump
Just a few
You forgot when smash bros came out as the first platform fighting game
What did Tekken 7 do new? It was the first Tekken I played since I had one for PS2, where the levels were much bigger instead of being just a square.
arent charge characters basically cool-down based?
Are For Honor duels a fighting game?
what game is that
It's been proven time and time again no one gives a fuck about platform fighters if it's not Nintendo-branded.
they changed lots of moves
added rage arts
added slow mo
brought in projectile characters
brought in air attacks (only like 2 characters)
>heroes
stopped reading right there.
if smash is a fighting game, then sure.
Add cool new mechanics and cut down on obnoxiously obtuse complexity. See: sc6, unist
Changing moves or adding characters isn't as big of a change as going to 3D. But I really dig the slow mo, hope they keep it.
UNIST is just as obtuse as it's big brother.
>fighting games are trying to innovate
Like what?
All I can think of are shitty smash clones and shitty oversimplified versions of "traditional" fighters that cut stuff out but don't add anything to replace it.
So make it more complex whilst making it less complex? I'm sure that worked out great every other time devs did that.
We have none of those things actually. only the illusion with giant 2d squares being adjusted for balance.
Compare with say fight night in its heyday. Where you had to physically contact the model.
Its "hard to balance" but thats what its gonna take to make a fighter stand out now. not the same old 2d arcade shtick. Keeping it stylish and fun is the challenge
>Unsafe moves actually looking unsafe
This is the only good one.
Plus on block and minus on block should be noticable when you play.
all video games are sold on hype and novelty. there will be more in the fighting game genre soon enough. saying that the genre is stagnant is really mundane, as all video gaming is now stagnant. just play some ms pac man and wait for your next opportunity to give the big basedsmile holding your brand new game box.
>casuals are never going to play them
Casuals already did play them in their millions upon millions. SF, Tekken and MK were some of the biggest games out there, especially SFII and it sure as hell wasn't because everyone was a grand master at them. Zoomers today are always calling Smash a party game, but I was a kid in the 90s SFII and Tekken 3 were in the same conversation as Mario Kart as the games you'd bust out when you had company because they were easy to understand.
>fighting game where attacks go in the direction of the joystick, so you could press the punch button and then hold up and forward and that's your anti air, or move in really oblique angles that make it hard to block (since blocking would work the same way)
Would you play it?
Tbf arent the only projectile characters akuma and geese, who are guest characters from fighting games that have a standard projectile game?
The Fight Night series?
i'd fart and cry and pass out at once
None of this is innovation, it is refinement
you mean smash bro?
Smash kinda let's you tilt attacks but not to the same degree.
Forgetting somebody?
If you are whining about fighting games being stagnant then Tekken 7 should be at the top of your hate list. Every new game in that series since 3 has just been a superficial update. Even the animations are recycled.
Soul Calibur did this
yeah. doesn't help that tekken 7, being one of the most dull fighters is also pretty much the top fighting game at the moment.
Tekken 7
SF V
SC 6
MK 11
Guess what all of these games have in common? They're glorified F2P titles with a premium. They ALL launch with zero content, they ALL have the most cancerous DLC and microtransaction practices in the entire business, and the genre itself has been hit especially hard from all the bullshit compared to other genres. Casuals are not the problem. Making the games easier to get into for newcomers is also not the problem. E sports is pretty bad, but that is not the true crux of the problem plaguing fighting games.
It's the fucking modern day practices of publishers and developers. As long as they continue to churn out lackluster games with nonexistent content, newcomers will find little reason for staying on the scene longer than a week. And that's not accounting for the regular drop off in player base fighting games usually go through.
DLC, pathological liars like Harada, dumb censorship and microtransaction-incentivizing grinds are going to continue to plummet this genre into a hole so deep that they won't collectively dig their way out of it any time soon. FG's were already notoriously difficult to get into and kind of a niche for a certain player base. This shit is doing nothing but making it worse.
>wanting fun
Ultimate is definitely a step in the direction of what he's recommending, given pretty much every ftilt and fsmash can now be tilted, but he wants it a step further. Like, a unique move for all 8 directions + punch, at least, if not a standardized punch that you control with where you hold the joystick.
Conceptually, it reminds me of Toribash, almost, except a lot easier to handle.
How come there's never been a multiplayer competitive beat-em-up with the depth of a fighter?
Like a game like the Bouncer where you are in an arena and have to hunt down and beat the shit out of your opponent. And the combat doesn't suck
>it's the only genre where sitting in training is a prerequisite to learning the game
nein
I think fighting games and more complex shooters are the only two genres where you really have to "train" on your own initiative rather than being thrown through some tutorial levels, and only fighting games are reasonable things to play one on one. So he's sorta right?
If you want to play at the top level yes but if you arent playing the dead ones that only have tourneyfags playing its mostly unga bunga spammers that can be easily defeated by holding down back
Never heard of that series, is that how those games work?
God Hand clone with a graphics touch up, more move variety and a vs mode.
Done.
Sounds fucking awful.
Fuck you buddy.
It's been a long time since I actually played it, but I'm pretty sure in 3 you had to move the sticks in different angles for all kinds of punching, dodging and blocking.
make fighting game pay2win.
They should release fighting games with a free to play version that only lets you play training mode, a tutorial mode, casual and ranked match until a higher low rank. Give like 8 characters for people to try and then let players pay to get new characters or update for the complete version with all remaining content content and stuff. This complete version should have enough singleplayer content to justify a 60$ price tag, if not put it up for 40$.
This model would encourage new people to try getting into fighting games.
They were gonna bring the replay cam back but backtracked on it. Fuck em
Dead or alive but with more characters?
yeah, but a good game also
they should make fight gam that make you feel strong and with fight!
more of a chore
youtube.com
More grapple/wrestle based games, without it necessarily being about wrestling. Would love another one like this.
ew
Unist has things that are very useful to new players like autocombos and assault and defensive mechanics that cut down a lot on melty's crazy corner pressure.
The combos and particularly blockstrings can still be pretty long though