Jrpg thiefs

>random battles are easy
Wooooooow

>it's okay if 99.99% of the content in a game consists of braindead random encounters with zero challenge or engagement (and unavoidable content at that, since they trigger if you so much as take a few steps)
Woooooow

Why doesn't this apply to WRPGs? None of them have good normal encounters either

Litterally farming mobs in low level zones with very leveled characters.

I'd post some of that glorious Ultima 7 combat that plays itself, but the game is too irrelevant to find anything

>almost wipes to random shitters on the world map
>using tents after almost every battle

This isn't helping your case.

>seems to be essentially non-existent in Japanese RPGs.
Not really, I've played plenty of JRPGs with Thief or thief-inspired classes, it's just that most JRPG feature turn-based combat so you can't really translate "conventional" thievery (sneaking unseen and stealing shit/backstabbing) to that form of combat, they'll just feature skills and abilities that reassemble those classic thief archetypes in effect or execution, like misdirection skills that prevent the Thief from being the target of enemy attacks, status-inflecting skills like poison, blind, paralyse, higher crit rate on attacks, player initiative on turns, extra loot rewards, etc.

Imagine thinking you are clever for farming low level mobs and using fucking tents after almost after every battle.

>Not really, I've played plenty of JRPGs with Thief or thief-inspired classes, it's just that most JRPG feature turn-based combat so you can't really translate "conventional" thievery (sneaking unseen and stealing shit/backstabbing) to that form of combat

But the vast majority of wrpgs are also turn-based and still manage to have those things:

>What is D&D
>What is Fallout
>What is Jagged Alliance
>What is Divinity: Original Sin

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>>What is D&D
Not comparable to video games.
>>What is Fallout
Not the same kind of turn-based we're talking about.

>Not comparable to video games.
How is it not comparable? D&D has been adapted as a turn-based computer RPG

>Not the same kind of turn-based we're talking about.
What do you mean by this?

And why did you ignore my other 2 examples?

>>>What is D&D
>Not comparable to video games.

Some of the best video games ever are based on the D&D rule set. Please shut up

Try the same trick in Baldur's Gate 1. Or Icewind Dale 1. Or Temple of Elemental Evil. Or even fucking Pillars of Eternity. You'll be wiped by "low level mobs" in twenty seconds.

Ah, it's the biased WRPG fanboy.

while is a fight IN THE FINAL DUNGEON

it's a Barry shitpost webm whenever bitch about how XV's combat is LITERALLY Hold O to win

I haven't played the other two examples. People talking about turn-based conbat are referring to the JRPG or JSRPG form of turn-based combat where battles are instanced from the overworld. There's not really any good way to implement WRPG-style thief mechanics into that and have thieves be worth using.
Also, D&D ≠ D&D-based videogames. D&D by its very nature is unadaptable into a single player video game.

It is. An RPG has to be retarded to allow you to rest everywhere, ad infinitum, without any consequences. Try doing that in ANY Infinity Engine game, for example.

The guy in the webm got almost wiped as well.

>ad infinitum

tents are not cheap to get and you can't rest in dungeons outside of specific points

>Also, D&D ≠ D&D-based videogames. D&D by its very nature is unadaptable into a single player video game.
The fuck are you talking about? D&D is just a bunch of campaign settings and rules If a bunch of human players can emulate those rules, a computer sure as hell can. And I said, D&D has been adapted as an video game RPG. Why would you be in denial about this?

>People talking about turn-based conbat are referring to the JRPG or JSRPG form of turn-based combat where battles are instanced from the overworld.
Okay, but even action jrpgs do not have the thief archetype. How do you expalin that? Srpgs similarly don't have any stealth aspect.

"Almost wiped" means "not wiped".

>rest everywhere, ad infinitum, without any consequences
So you haven't played the game, then? Tents only work on the world map where you'd be able to head back to a town anyways.

What? Did you make your entire team dump all of their stat points into stats useless for their class?

The thief mechanics of d&d don't really translate into the ff style jrpg.
Jobs are based around combat, so their abilities are shown there in that system. The sequence of a battle in final fantasy games aren't meant to be realistic or meant as a window into what combat in that world is like. It's a weird abstraction.

Thiefs steal. They take things they aren't supposed to. In games this leads to them getting items they otherwise wouldn't get. Adding a steal command for the already abstract battle sequence of final fantasy games to give the thief it's flavor works fine for that system.

Just because Launchpad McQuack aviation isn't as immersive as Iceman kazanski doesn't mean that Ducktales sucks and need to change the way they handle planes.

Right...because JRPG's are notorious for money being difficult to come by in them...ups, I got it the other way around, I can't remember the last one where gold was ever an issue.

On the other hand, in WRPG's money, at least to a certain point in the game, is actually valuable and sparse.

Once again, try resting in the wilderness in any of the games I've listed. And many others. You'll be "ambushed" and, more often than not, wiped.

>t. has only played Pokemon, maybe one FF too

>The guy in the webm got almost wiped as well.
Not really. There are 7 encounters in that webm. He mindlessly auto-attacks his way through all of them. In the last encounter, two party members die, which is still a far cry from being 'almost wiped'. It's not like FFV has permadeath, unlike say Baldur's Gate.

If he had played normally, those two party members wouldn't even have fallen. Yet despite playing like a retard, he still won all those encounters.

>On the other hand, in WRPG's money, at least to a certain point in the game, is actually valuable and sparse.
Top fucking kek. Baldurs Gate 1/2, Icewind Dale 1/2, Neverwinter Nights 1/2, the entirety of Elder Scrolls; all well known WRPGs, all games where money is fucking worthless due to gear being doled out at a fast pace.

>D&D is just a bunch of campaign settings and rules If a bunch of human players can emulate those rules, a computer sure as hell can.
Have you ever fucking played D&D? A computer cannot— at least in Anno-fucking-Domini 2019— recreate a proper D&D campaign. D&D by its very nature requires a human GM.
>action jrpgs do not have the thief archetype.
Because, again, many ARPGs separate combat from the rest of the world, rendering a thief nearly useless since you have to aggro enemies to just start a fight anyways. Same goes for SRPGs like Disgaea and FFT.

Retard, I'm replying to a moron (probably you), who tried to counter a webm showcasing how you can win entire battles in JRPG's by using a single button. I listed WRPG's where, if you tried the same trick, you'd be wiped instantly.

Based

Whoever made that image never played Etrian Odyssey.

If you are using a tent after every battle you aren't making enough money to buy more tents.

>Pokemon is an RPG.

This board is doomed.

And another user who never played any of those games. Tell me, sweetheart, where in BG 1 does it "dole out" equipment, for example?

What game would you be wiped instantly for using auto combat in the early game? I could possibly see it happening in the first Baldurs gate, but only if you decided to not have any fighter classes in your group for some reason.

Auto-Combat? Retard, play any of those games first, will you? And then join the discussion.

I'm really tired of people discussing games based on common knowledge and heresay, instead of actually having played them.

>Because, again, many ARPGs separate combat from the rest of the world
Huh? The vast majority of arpgs have combat take place in the world, without a separate battle screen.

>Same goes for SRPGs like Disgaea and FFT.
That doesn't make sense. In something like Fire EMblem, the maps are massive, and it doesn't really make sense that you can see everyone's position, and the enemy can see the position of your characters. It would be very easy to implement a stealth system in a gamee like that.

Cause he's overlevelled and against world map mobs, which are typically way weaker than dungeon ones in FF, what's your point?
It's also a turn-based RPG, so not having mechanical difficulty is expected

>Try doing that in ANY Infinity Engine game, for example.
What are you talking about?
When going into the underdark in icewind dale with all the drow, giants, mushroom guys and umberhulks I could be super cheesy and just unload a buttload spells, and then sleep on the ground right there when there were more enemies just outside my fog of war.
In final fantasy games I can only use the tent on the overworld map or on save points in dungeons, not everywhere in a dungeon.
Not in combat in either games.

This is not a thing that one of these types of games have solved and the other not, it's an issue they both share.

Are you really trying to say that the characters auto attacking enemies isn't auto combat?

>Whoever made that image never played Etrian Odyssey.
Etrian Odyssey;s summoning is still highly limited to wrpgs, where you can have a whole army of summoned creatures by your side.

And Etrian Odyssey was specifically inspired by old-ass wrpgs, so that only proves the point of that image.

>Can steal from NPCs
>Can open unique chests that no one else can
>Can steal from enemies, as per standard
>Attacks are based around "stealing" HP and MP done via damage
>Storyline is about breaking and entering places

Seems pretty thiefy to me desu

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Jesus Christ, you've never actually played the game. Either you are operating on something you've read before or general knowledge. You should be embarassed.

Like 90% of western RPGs just copy and paste the DnD rulebook.

No refutation means you're giving up, you're not a quitter are you?

I wish more games had good summoner classes its always a really fun way to play MMO's solo

western influences

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Now I've got you. You quickly googled whether BG has auto-combat, read about auto attacking, and then came back with a brillian reply.
Now, retard dear, listen here: auto-attacking is useless in BG1. Even if you're a fighter, it takes a couple hits or a single spell/special ability to kill you, if you're unlucky. Now go and actually play the game.

I can't discuss a game with a person who obviously never played it and is talking out of his ass. Since you didn't dany it, now I know I'm right. Shame on you.

>And Etrian Odyssey was specifically inspired by old-ass wrpgs, so that only proves the point of that image.
How does that prove the point of the image? It's comparing games that are based on Ultima to games that are based on Wizardry. Do you retards seriously not know the history of the games you're parading around?

>here's your thief bro

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>thiefs

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yes you retard, random battles aren't supposed to be challenging, they're supposed to slowly whittle down your resources while you traverse the field/dungeon.

>Get proven wrong
>Immediately flip your shit throwing ad hominems around
How is a character attacking targets without input from the player not auto combat exactly?

I've played Baldurs Gate 1, 2, tob, Icewind Dale.
A bit of nwn.
Basically just character creation of temple of elemental evil and iwd2.
I've played final fantasy 1(didn't finish), 2(briefly), 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10-2(didn't finish) and 12.
I played baldurs gate when it was fairly new.

I made this recently because I like tinkering with dual classes.
I play the games, both jrpgs and wrpgs.
Be specific with what you take issue with what I said and try to argue instead of shitfling.

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Retard dear, you clearly don't know what auto attacking entails in Baldur's Gate. Go read a bit more of the guide, then come back here, since you don't know what you're talking about.

But what did he say that was wrong? It appears what he said was truthful, as you're dismissing him without telling how he was wrong.

>How is a character attacking targets without input from the player not auto combat exactly?
Not him, but you can't possibly be this retarded. BG's 'auto-attack' is there because you're managing a party of 6 characters in real-time, it's a QoL feature. It's not automated combat like in FFV, you still have to move the character to the target and order them to attack. They will then continue to attack unless issued an other order.

By your logic, Starcraft also has auto-attack.

boards.fireden.net/v/last/50/447851296/

And now you're lying. Bravo.

>western influences

in a bad way.

FFXV is the amalgamation of everything wrong done by western devs in one game

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Could you tell me then? Because characters automatically attacking targets when in combat seems to be automatic combat to me, going by the literal definition.

What sort of life leads a person to obsessively shitpost about the same thing over and over?

Absolutely destroyed

>So...this...is..the power....of western gayming

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>It's cool and all that you have a lot of freedom of choice in WRPGs but JRPGs are objectively more fun and enjoyable to play.

Invisible Inc is a western strategy rpg centered entirely around stealth and thief-y things, and it has better gameplay than any jrpg I can think of.

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>By your logic, Starcraft also has auto-attack.
What logic? I said the game has auto combat, and it does.

outskilled

It does not. It has AUTO-ATTACK, which is completely different. It just makes a character perform a generic attack with the weapon he/she is currently holding. No spellcasting, no item usage, no switching arrow types etc. In most combat encounters, if you limit your party to just auto-attacking, they're dead meat.

>how can nips even compete?

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>What logic? I said the game has auto combat, and it does.
But it doesn't. Again, to 'auto-attack' in Baldur's Gate, you have to manually move a character to their target and order them to attack. And you have to do this for how many characters under your control, which can be a maximum of 6, plus any summoned creatures.

It's not like FFV where it makes combat completely play itself.

fpbp

You do realise that this is the AI on the lowest difficulty? Go and try doing that by yourself.

probably the most thiefy thief I've ever seen in a jrpg

boards.fireden.net/v/last/50/447851296/

And now you're lying. Bravo.

>It does not. It has AUTO-ATTACK, which is completely different.
You're characters are fighting a battle without input from the player. Somehow this isn't auto-combat.
> In most combat encounters, if you limit your party to just auto-attacking, they're dead meat.
If you make a party that requires that managing, sure. You could also simply use a party that doesn't require said management.

>But it doesn't. Again, to 'auto-attack' in Baldur's Gate, you have to manually move a character to their target and order them to attack.
Using this logic, you need to move in the field of FF to get into combat. You don't need to tell the characters anything, in the base game of BG without fucking with settings, your characters will fight once they've aggroed an enemy. I know, because it was a fucking annoyance trying to keep my mage with a staff from walking into a fight when one began.

Just admit that you were wrong. You literally went from defending JRPG's mechanics to arguing semantic. Can you not see just how pathetic you are doing that?

cope

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Imagine being The guard in that scene and having to be all like "damn, Fisher, where did ya go, all invisible and shit, with your body in the shadows. I totaly cannot see you right there over me with a giant bulb of light behind you. when all he really wants to do is shot the fucking guy right in the balls. Like seriously imagine having to be Soldier and not only have to ignore the guy in plain fucking sight right in front of you, the favorable lighting barely concealing the giant 3 green lights he carries in his head, while he just sits there, ,load after load, until he perfected the take down. Not only having to tolerate the fucking audacity of hiding in plain fucking sight but her haughty attitude as everyone on here tells you that DANM THATS THE BEST STEALTH GAME EVER MADE. WHERE DID FISHER GO??? IS HE A GHOST OR SOMETHING??? because they're not the ones who have to walk pass there and watch the fucking elephant in the room jump from 2m onto the ground making the biggest sound in the world and you have to act like you didnt noticed it. You trained your entire life in the best boot camps in russia and was survived war zones that were considered suicide missions your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the boonies in Afeganistam. You've never even seen anything this fucking disgusting before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that's breaking out on his fucking balls while he just hangs in there waiting for you to pass, smugly assured that you are oblivious to the king of stealth(for that is what he calls himself)" , the stealth he worked so hard breaking every single light bulb in the previous room's. And then the player reloads again, and you know you could kill the fucker before he even finishes climbing the wall, but you sit there and endure, because you're fucking Professional. You're not going to lose your future main character status in a generic FPS game over this. Just bear it. Hide your face and bear it.

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its very sad when the game with the best thief related gameplay is skyrim

especially with the Ordinator perk overhaul.

>bumping WRPGkun threads

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ldexfags will defend this lmao

You found my post, bravo.

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Shit bait, but FFT thieves can literally steal what you're wearing.

kek

>not mine

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>jrpg thief
>wears leather armor and uses daggers

>wrpg thief
>HES GAY, HES GAY, DID I MENTION HE LIKES MEN? HE IS A HOMOSEXUAL AND YOU CAN FUCK HIM HES GAY

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how are jrpgs even good? you can't even buttfuck gypsies in them

youtube.com/watch?v=iU2LTM8Dq7I

So MGS and Tenchu had better AI.

>wanting stds and gypsie curses
gross

>Shit bait, but FFT thieves can literally steal what you're wearing.
That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. How does that even make sense? If you such control over your opponents body that you can separate his breastplate from him, why not just kill him?

>why give up free loot
are you daft?

>party member tries to stop you from having gay sex
It was a more innocent time.

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Your shit image, yes yours, doesn't illustrate anything but the fact that you're a fucking moron. Final Fantasy 9 doesn't have real classes, you can't be a thief because it's a purely narrative experience with great reams of required combat. It's built by people with little imagination for people with even less. Go pull up one of the many, many Japanese Wizardry clones instead, fuckwit. Maybe learn something.

>enemies armor and weapons and items magically disappear if you defeat them
>this is supposd to be a good thing
That's even more retarded.

>M-MUH REALISM
>I DON'T CARE ABOUT VIDEO GAME MECHANICS, JUST REALISM

is more your speed, friend

>getting this upset over obvious bait
cmon man

I never said it wasn't, but thats the way it works in tactics. Why not get as much loot as you possibly can instead of killing them and getting nothing?

perfect

Okay, but that has means the FFT thief class is yet another jrpg class that has nothing to do with actual thievery.

Nice cherrypicking retard, no one likes FFXV

Unsatisfying thread.

At least they don't look like shit and that comes from someone that hates FF

It's not the fault of turn based combat, it's the one-dimentional combat. That is: Both parties line up and take wacks at each other, no movement or sense of space. If you want to see a Japanese game that does turn based interaction well, see Elona.

Why is this so hard to realize/understand

Japanese rpgs (or more accurately Japan in general) don't care about realism for the sake of realism. Japan doesn't care much about realistic interactions, like dialogue-consequence systems or realistic stealing mechanics or the open world "you can go Anywhere/do Anything, just like if you were really there" game design

japanese rpgs are rpgs in the sense that they are video games that have a bit bigger than average emphasis on character leveling/building, they are not rpgs in the sense that they are trying to be realistic simulator-like literal"role playing" experiences like what most western rpgs aim for.

most japanese rpgs are pretty straight forward combat oriented dungeon crawler/adventure games, just with an extra character building/leveling system, regardless if they are turn or real time action based.

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Ironically the only thing thieves can do in JRPGs is stealing/mugging in combat, but it's stealth that they miss.

More like they don't care about game mechanics.
There is no stealth, no utility magic, no movement and positioning in combat, even archers/shooters are completely identical mechanically to melee classes. No items with unique effects, only straight stat increases.
The combat has absolutely no depth at all.

>even archers/shooters are completely identical mechanically to melee classes
No they're not

Maybe not in some SPRGs with grid movement, but in most JRPGs there is no difference, since there is no concept of range.

>even archers/shooters are completely identical mechanically to melee classes
Doesn't even hold true for final fantasy games where the part is lined up on one side