Is this the superior tier list for dungeons Yea Forums?
BRD is convoluted AF but its got the bar and a bunch of cool bosses plus a ton of layers given that you got keys, a forge area for special items, access to molten core and a bunch of other neat stuff going for it (like needing it for Onyxia raid). ZF and DM are absolute classics, really fun and well-designed dungeons. RFC is the best example of introducing people to dungeons and groups.
Everything else is either not as memorable or dogshit.
Sunken Temple was bad but there were at least some decent rewards. WC and stockades are just dogshit in design. ST at least looked cool with cool bosses. WC had some neat bosses but the layout was absolutely boring and stockades is just genericprisonrpgdungeon.fla.
Listen here faggot. Gnomeregan had some dumb shit but it was neat in introducing you to a bunch of cool components at a low level. You had the "clean" area, you had a key that let you skip the dungeon, you had a punch card you could upgrade, you had grime encrusted objects you can clean in the clean room for cool loot and you had a neat end boss with some great drops.
It's not blizzard's fault you were too retarded to navigate it with your group.
Benjamin Hill
Reminder that minmaxing is the most effective way to ruin your Vanilla experience and destroy the love you have for one of the best games of all time.
Immerse yourself in the game and play it for the RPG elements that made it great
i forgot about the key card and the grime encrusted objects. damn i miss vanilla gnomer
Lucas Scott
I forgot until just now as I was typing that. Fuck you just start thinking of it and a bunch of good memories come back. That dungeon was hard but it wasn't bad. It was just hard. WC and Stockades were bad.
who actually gives a fuck at all. they could add 20 more raids to the game tomorrow and the game would still be beyond dogshit. more "content" isn't going to save the game when the core aspects and mechanics of the game are trash.
Nolan Green
Now THIS is a tier list worth discussion. We're going home, the bad expansions can't hurt us anymore.
BRD is my number 1, just the amount of bosses and different ways you could do it feels like a whole zone. It was really hard for me to judge the level 60 ones that you eventually run through dozens of time: BRS/Scholo/Strath/DM
Dire Maul sucks so much ass. It's one of the few classic dungeons they never updated and its age really shows. There's way too many quests and they're all shitty and the place is just too big and boring.
I want ST higher and Scholo lower though. ST is peak atmosphere.
Parker Ward
>SFK at D tier >Strath at B tier >Dire Maul at C tier
no
Jaxon Flores
i didnt start playing until 4.3 so i didnt really get to exprience a whole lot of the original dungeons. I think wide open dungeons can be fun, but dire maul isnt one of them. I like some parts of dire maul, but most of it sucks
Jayden Thomas
Dire maul ain't that great if you weren't high level or doing the tribute stuff.
Strath has incredibly shitty aggro and mob pats that Deadmines would blush.
The game needs more dungeons are are entire zones, not less you zoomite. You haven't even experienced any of the classic dungeons.
Mason Reyes
Cata babies can't even relate. BRD was so fucking cool before they completely ruined it.
Ayden Sanchez
sorry i'm not a fucking boomer. guess i cant enjoy wow if i wasnt around during classic. mists is my favorite expansion btw, but i havent played since legion
Adam Ross
You're literally a child and you act like one.
Sebastian Gonzalez
Mists brought some good content. I will give you that and only that.
Mason Ross
>tfw being able to re-experience vanilla wow for the first time again >talent trees >gold was important (saving 100g for a mount was a big deal, getting your talents right was important because respecs were expensive) >world pvp >skill > gear (otherguy, drakedog, world of roguecraft) >no death knights >shaman and paladin are in the factions they belong >pvp ranks >AV's objectives actually mattered >no arena >no flying mounts >socializing >no lfg or cross realm trash >no quick travel >lore hasnt gone down to the shitter yet >cool quests like the mount quest and rogue pick lock quest >no daily quests >no pet battles >40 man raids (that actually require coordination) >no multiple raid difficulties >5 mans actually felt like real dungeons >no more data mining >way more skills to utilize >no e-shop >no archeology >no achievements >reagents >no vehicles >no transmog so people don't run around in retarded clownsuits that break immersion >armor design wasn't garbage that belonged in an anime >exploration >world felt dangerous >professions were fun, unique, and useful >no blood elves, draenei, worgen, pandashit or goblins >b-b-but no one wants it >nost peaked higher than retail Finally, home sweet home.
Asher White
Please play, I'm a shitter and need people worse than me to kill.
Colton Perez
>didn't play Classic, yet trying to argue that stuff in Classic isn't as good
if you actually had any way to articulate a good argument then fine, but when your argument is "the dungeon isn't just 1 giant easy to follow pathway with arrow pointing exactly where to go" then you don't have an argument. When you'd prefer dungeons to be the way they are in cata and onward, then you don't actually care about the dungeons. You just want whatever method is easiest for helping your leveling or getting your gear as fast as possible, and it's no longer about the dungeon at all. Just another example of ruining a core part of the game for the sake of convenience then afterward wondering why the game sucks and not being able to see the problem that's right in front of you.
Gavin Adams
openness vs linearity doesnt mean shit with dungeons. exploring cool areas or having interesting bosses is what makes the dungeon good. I dont really like many of the classic dungeons because the bosses basically have no mechanics or shit on the floor to dodge. I'd say even most of the burning crusade dungeons were pretty boring.
Benjamin Thompson
>nost peaked higher than retail >doubt
Carson Kelly
And exploration based dungeons don't really mean anything because the whole point is getting to the bosses. If you wan't exploration or non-linear content, they should make something like a timeless isle 2.0
Logan Miller
>Temple of Atal'Hakkar below Razorfen Kraul >Maraudon below Stratholme >Ragefire Chasm being above LBRS Best be joking nigger
Carson Allen
RFK was so forgettable but Temple wasn't really great either. Design wise it's about on par with expansion hallway dungeons
Jason King
I haven't played classic, but i've played the dungeons from classic. The old dungeons aren't good just because you think they are. I don't even know why you care about the old dungeons when most of the "bosses" are glorified trash mobs.
Carson King
i refuse to acknowledge any tier list where uldaman isn't top tier
Connor Howard
SFK is way too low
Nolan Anderson
the old dungeons actually felt like dungeons. there were real rpg elements to them. and lmao @ you thinking the bosses back then were easy. they've been easy as hell on retail since wotlk due to how much easier they've made lower level content over time. fighting these bosses in actual vanilla was an actual challenge compared to how piss easy everything is in retail now
Lincoln Baker
well that's your opinion but exploring BRD for a week with my buddies when it was new was legit the best experience I've ever had in this game
getting to bosses might be the point but the thing that was cool about BRD was you could explore and run into bosses you weren't really aware of
this experience isn't really possible anymore though because everyone feels compelled to have all the information about the dungeon before they even step in it nowadays
Eli Watson
Can barely remember Razorfen dungeons. No one ran them on alliance cuz it required a trip to the barrens.
Maradon had the same dungeon design across every wing but with different colors. It had one cool part with the waterfall and the princess. Stratholme had great lore and interesting bosses to match.
LBRs was bad. Neck yourself
Samuel Ross
see
Colton King
Anybody remember early Scholo? It was hell.
Julian Thomas
Wasn't it a raid at launch?
Juan Clark
Yeah.
It had a bunch of ridiculous diseases and quite a few punishing pulls.
Henry Myers
>LBRs was bad. LBRS was fine, people just sucked at navigating.
Michael Green
I like scarlet monastery and I think they did the Scarlet Crusade dirty by not including them in anymore story. Last I read on a wiki there was a retarded splinter faction led by a retard. WOTLK killing Scarlet aligned towns was dumb as fuck too and a weak way to write them further out.
Jackson Diaz
>late 05/early 06 >doing onyxia with guild >get to be ret because I'm friendly with GL and they need bodies >doing subpar dps but running low on mana >switch to seal of wisdom to regen a bit >accidentally judge wisdom >knock off a warlock curse >immediately called out by 3 warlocks and the raid leader >have a mini panic attack and end up getting feared >spend the rest of the fight dead >group recovers and ony dies >drops my t2 helm >fuck yes I'm the only pally in raid who doesn't have it >RL says I can't bid on it >everybody laugh at me as I beg him not to shard it >he shards it >don't get invited to raid for a month straight after
Feels good to be going home bros. Now that I'm older I won't make the mistake of being dead weight again.
Wut? They're in living stratholme and relevant to Naxx.
Elijah King
Fuck those guys.
Most worthwhile guilds used DKP, so you could punish someone for fucking up while still being reasonable about it.
Logan Sullivan
Reminder that you can play "meme" specs and do just fine. Gathering 40 people who are decently geared and will consistently show up to every raid on raid night is an absolute nightmare and if you have established yourself with a good and dependable reputation, and you show your proficiency with your spec and class, people will be much more likely to take you than take asshat mage #704 who isn't reliable and doesn't give a fuck. >i mean you can take a meme spec, but definitely not through AQ40 or Naxx Considering in most fights you have 1, 2, or 3 dumbasses who die at the beginning of the fight anyways and you still clear it handily, having 1 or 2 "meme" spec'd players isn't going to be the difference between you progressing through content or not.
Moral of the story, you establishing yourself with a good reputation on your server and being proficient in what you do will matter more in your ability to do well in end game content than any other factor. Obviously you can't fill an entire raid with sub-optimal specs, but people acting like you don't stand a chance at being successful if you aren't the "minmax'd" version of your character with every single talent point and piece of gear and enchant are a joke.
If you didn't play the dungeons with 1.12 mechanics you didn't play the dungeon. If you didn't struggle with threat and were forced to CC instead of AoE you didn't play the dungeon. If you didn't walk to the dungeon or beg for a warlock summon you didn't play the dungeon. If you didn't deal with debating what class should be rolling on what loot you didn't play the dungeon. If you didn't walk away with only what dropped instead of being offered free welfare blues at the end of every run that invalidate all dungeon/quest gear you didn't play the dungeon.
If you played with tanks who automatically get aggro, casters with infinite mana, AoEd multiple packs in a row despite half the group likely being braindead bottom feeders, and were intensivized to just kill the 'last boss' ASAP for your welfare bag with tons of money to pay for all your skills you're just a zoomite who thinks you know what the original painting looked like from the reconstruction. Red circles on the ground and a 1.2MB voice clip that plays every 10-20 seconds isn't what makes a dungeon a dungeon.
You are completely delusional, and mentioning roguecraft is hilarious. The videos existed to show that rogue was completely broken and that you didn't need gear or extreme skill to beat people.
The other clips are a mix of multiple people being undergeared, being ganked, or not having the right class or spec to duel or fight back.
Jack Watson
Fuck Gnomeregan
Daniel Jones
In the current games? I thought Naxx isn't relevant. They will be in Classic though.
Luke Ramirez
>he didn't know the skips Mad cause bad.
Jacob Brooks
Wailing Caverns is great, feels like a real dungeon where you explore and actually FIND stuff. Gnomeregan has nothing in it. Uldaman is S tier, and Zul'Farrak is B or C at BEST because of the shitty pyramid. Deadmines is good, but other than being your first dungeon on Alliance, is unremarkable compared to all the rest--certainly not so many tiers better than SFK. SM, Strat, and Scholo should all be A, and BRD should be S tier as the absolute god-mode dungeon.
Also you're a fucking brainlet if you dislike LBRS and BFD.
Julian Watson
You had to CC every pull in classic, if you did well in the run you would friend the people in the group and do more runs or raids for months to years. You friend successful group members because it fucking sucked to wipe and run back to the dungeon all the way from an outside graveyard.
Tyler Evans
Ever have someone fail the big jump before final boss on Wailing Caverns? Shit is fucking hilarious
Juan Ross
What's the point of this fucking story? To make me upset? What assholes.
Christopher Jones
why is diremaul C?
Had several overarching quests in it. Final wing has a nice lead up to a tough boss. Had a unique look to it etc.
Kevin Walker
>Super social anxiety >Have panic attacks before going on vent >Go on vent and find what I think is a friend group >Find out later they were bullying me about my timidness and voice
Fuckers, internet people are piece of shits.
Caleb Garcia
>the RPG elements that made it great ah yes the great rpg elements like having no control over your character's progression, terrible unengaging quest design and a nonexistent difficulty curve
>Shadowfang as D tier, not S tier Dude. youtu.be/gtQqxSKU0dE while fighting fenrus or in place with fuckton of ghost wolves is fucking epic. I literally want to find extended version of this music because this is a masterpiece of vanilla wow music you ignorant piece of shit. Shadowfang keep itself is a fucking great dungeon.
>Zul farrak as S tier. Not D tier Boring dungeon with annoying as fuck enemies. The only reason is not F tier is because it's not "Horribly artificially long" wailing caverns or "No fucking loot" stockade.
Jordan Williams
I wish more people would understand this. >Friends who play retail >Always act like hot shit and try to min'max everything in the game >Either berate me or straight up refuse to let me join in unless I follow their word as gospel or follow a well known min'max guide >They still somehow fail at mechanics or wipes while blaming everything but themselves becuase "they are following the strats/min'max" >Only time they are actually "better" then non-min'maxers are in tank'n'spank scenarios >B-but atleast we will get better results once we get better at the game!
The last statement is true, it's just sad that that they have too ruin the fun for everyone else in the process with their shitty attitudes.
Juan Reed
You guys are a bunch of faggots and deserve to be bullied. Learn your controls and stop having anxiety over social situations.
Carson Carter
I was thinking of classic yeah, sorry
Kevin Hill
>mists is my favorite expansion btw i started in bc and mists is my favorite too
>no control over your characters progression the game is literally just item level now. not only that, but the gear you get from everything is completely random. you can get a bis piece of titanforged gear from a fucking world quest minigame. 0 control over your characters progression
>unengaging quest design you see a dot on the minimap, you go there and repeat the same 4 types of quests that have existed since the dawn of time in WoW. only difference is some dumbass popping up to talk to you about it or some shitty cutscene that is somehow worse than warcraft 3's cutscenes
>nonexistent difficulty curve oh you mean how in retail you do the same raid 4 fucking times just on different difficulties? the difficulty curve in wow has never been worse than it is now and that is one of the main complaints that bfa players have about the game
Jaxson Lewis
Sorry, when I said "shit opinions" I didn't mean "opinions which would result in a bad product" I meant "opinions coming from a diseased casual mindset". Even being aware of wallwalking means you are not a filthy casual.
Connor Campbell
>tfw still can't decide which healer to roll
I'm going home in a month or five, or maybe more, and am still wrought with indecision!
Eh, I thought that was self-evident. Of course I am.
Gabriel Thompson
>People hating on Stocks Fucking why? Its the easiest XP turnover farm.
Justin Brooks
Shit loot Shit bosses Shit aesthetics
Michael Turner
Shit opinion
Henry Jenkins
>get to westfall >right from the get-go on sentinel hill most of the quests you're doing follow the defias storyline >get to lvl 17-19, have all the quests and prepared for deadmines >go in, atmosphere is amazing and first challenging boss fights of ur wow career >finish the dungeon, get 1 or 2 nice blue upgrades in the process >go turn in quests and get some nice greens >go do your first quest and see the power up in your damage from the new gear and weapons and really feel that character progression
the only crime about stockades is that you cant throw hunters in there who don't turn auto-taunt off on their pets in dungeons
Anthony Clark
I see you still havnt offered a single reason why those criticisms don't apply to vanilla too wow has always been a terrible rpg
Xavier Gray
Those are facts.
>shit loot The only boss who has a proper boss loot table is a rare. The rest don't drop shit. >shit bosses If they didn't have names, you'd probably mistake them for normal mobs. >shit aesthetics ctrl+c ctrl+v the same cell 19 times
Grayson Flores
I always liked stocks. The old version had like 5 or more quests in there, you could easily get a level just by clearing it and turning in the quests. Also it was fast, and offered plenty of non-rare loot (clothes, green boe's, etc.).
Colton Bell
>Wailing Cavern shit >Shadowfang deep shit >all dungeons which are short and easy, except for the obvious one on top Nice meme, shitter. Neck fast.
Jayden Lewis
>BFD above anything other than stockades
Brayden Sanchez
>go turn in quests and get some nice greens The main quest rewards blues that are so good you'll likely be using them well into your 30s, especially the leather chest.
Aiden Torres
RFD and ST are the best for me.
Easton Lee
It's not much aesthetically-wise, but the loot can't be much good just because of the fact that it sits in the middle of SW.
It has other advantages, such as being really fast and packed with quests.
Grayson Moore
>Not liking Sunken Temple or Blackfathom Deeps Fucking abysmal taste, mate. Those dungeons were thematically cool and pretty fun. Sunken Temple was really long, but had some tough and rewarding bosses. Honestly, a lot of the classic dungeons were just great. I don't think any of them were D or F tier.
Caleb James
No cost is too high for white pride.
Chase Flores
Here u go m8
-Vanilla is arguably the best time in the game for character customization. There are way more options for gear for your character and how you want to build him, and you can put your talent point anywhere you fucking want cause you're playing a class, not a spec like it is in retail. If you wanted to build a full shadow res retardo spec just to kill spriests and warlocks in world pvp, you can do that. If you want to go full AP rogue for mega ambush 1 shot crits, you can do that. If you want to go cookie cutter minmax, you can do that too. There's way more freedom in how you approach the game and play it in Vanilla than in retail.
-Quest design was way better in Vanilla because it was separated into smaller more dedicated storylines that you got to experience and complete in different zones making it feel like an actual world. Nowadays its all just 1 giant shitty storyline together that no one cares about and the lore nerds all complain about.
-The difficulty curve in retail currently is your character somehow gets worse as you level (solid character progression) and then you hit max level and are gifted bis gear from doing any random shit that's an objective on your world map or queuing into a bg or raid that'll gift you random bis gear for your minimal participation and complete lack of skill. In Vanilla getting good gear requires you to actually do the difficult content and raids get progressively harder throughout the expansion. MC isn't bad, BWL is somewhat difficult, AQ40 is hard, and Naxx is really fucking hard. In current WoW it's just the last boss of a raid in a patch is hard and the rest are a joke, and then a new patch comes out and all of the content from the previous patch becomes completely trivial, whereas with Vanilla MC stays relevant throughout all of Vanillas lifetime due to there not being as many easy catchup mechanics and people trying to farm the legendaries and the recipes in MC.
Holy crap I forgot how disgusting questing is. Why doesn't this dude just grind? I mean look at it. No mobs, wait times on bosses, and too many alliance running around ganking you to count.
You seem to think Blizzard arent gonna fully commit to sharding. I would argue they are playing it off and you will be alone 90% of the time while questing
Caleb Foster
Scholomance deserves better but maybe thats just because it feelks like catacombs/necropoli from Lineage 2 that I used to
Fucking Sunken temple tho, I will never forget that dragon playing golf with me.
Juan Morgan
>dungeon spans 10 levels >bugged aggro means some dumb retard will pull the entire instance >mines >mobs have impactful abilities I can't think of a harder 5-man. Even pugging strat/scholo or any wing of DM is a lot smoother. I have never entered Gnomeregan and not regretted it.
Juan Miller
grow up you touchy little bitch
Matthew Allen
It's usually like this:
>enter the instance, it goes relatively smoothly >reach the ramp that goes down to the final boss >full of dark dwarves with mines and shit >wipe there a couple of times, if you're lucky your group stays intact and somehow kills the last boss >everyone immediately leaves without saying a word
Benjamin King
>that overlay what the fuck
Colton Williams
I wish I had a guild like that. Top lads.
Oliver Lewis
it had 800 billion concurrent players on tuesdays
Samuel Lopez
>Do uldaman >pretty good group, everyone at around level 40-42 >2 hours later get to the last boss >it's level 47 and is essentially a large DPS check, our dps sucks because of resists and glancing blows >wipe 3 times and give up
my favorite part is how he's a pathological liar and has lied about his past about 100 different times now. even more pathetic is him acting like he was ever half decent at any game and would've "made it big" in esports if he didn't get dicked by somebody else
Grayson Clark
good lord that lisping nasally voice are you sure you're not a /vg/ tranny
Juan Carter
i almost want to watch this retard because he appears lolcowish but i don't want to give him any attention at all
Gavin Smith
fuck off benny
John Watson
>ele can consistently obliterate people without even having that good of gear >enh is solid with the chance of 1 shotting people on a windfury proc >resto is the 2nd most sought after spec for raids >bring the best utility to raids
I think T2.5 is a decent ele set. Some off pieces as well.
Matthew Clark
Because if you start playing meme specs everyone will want to and you are still effectively dead weight. Stop being a snowflake
Michael White
I'm not going to touch retail wow as long as titanforging exists.
Anthony Perez
Except when vanilla shoehorns everyone into one talent tree and build to get anywhere. At least Retail has more than one viable spec. Also you are really over estimating vanilla raiding difficulty compared to live, nothing before late AQ40 is even a challenge and even at that point it's only moderate. I agree with some of your points however your post itself couldn't be any more biased.
Caleb Brown
not even close. the vast majority of people will always want to play what will get them into raids easier and wont want to put in the effort required to play a "meme" spec. same reason why you always see people in shooters using the best weapons and why you see people way more often playing the top tiers in fighting games.
Ayden Perry
It;s also one of the fastest places to level to 60 in the game
Tyler Collins
Stratholme is the best 5 man in vanilla hands down
Colton Jones
Except this is a team game with 40 people where any half decent guild trying to clear content isn't going to gimp themselves to take meme specs in. You might have them in more average guilds that have high turn over of members.
Michael Cooper
that or scholo
Matthew Walker
vanilla doesnt shoehorn jack shit. you can level as any spec with any class and do just fine solo. are there specs that are faster or more optimal? yes, but no spec is "unviable" for leveling or even for end game.
You keep approaching this with such a retail mentality, as if the optimal choice is all that exists and you're forced into it without any freedom at all. It's funny too that you are trying to act like retail has more freedom in your ability to play different specs. If you're trying to progress in retail, you're even more fucked than if you're trying to do it in Vanilla. Not only can you not play the spec you want cause it's not optimal, but you have to reroll a new class to play the spec that is the highest dps in a given patch if you want to be a part of progression.
pic related is method's "class diversity". after this it got even worse and they literally had 10 warlocks out of the 20 people
Why would you link Method of all guilds progression team to point out diversity. Class stacking has existed in every expansion including vanilla for guilds pushing to world first kills. Don't even kid yourself if you think the guilds don't Min/Max to the extreme. Also for end game every class literally has one playable spec or role in vanilla except maybe warriors. Vanilla has the worse class balancing in the entire game which is mainly because it's when the game was new. Take Paladin for example, Ret and Prot are absolute dogshit for end game, fuck prot doesn't even have a taunt skill making them worthless as a tank
Alexander Hall
>that ss So why did they remove everything that made each class unique again?
Aaron Gray
Every point you are trying to make user exists in vanilla as well, some even worse than others. You might want to remove those rose tinted glasses
Bentley Cook
yes because every guild is going to have 40 reliable people in pre-bis gear and optimal classes and specs for every role that will show up to every raid night to clear content that retards with sub optimal specs and greens cleared 15 years ago.
blows my mind how people try to gatekeep vanilla content now even harder than people did back then yet everyone is better and more knowledgable now. makes 0 sense. when a guild needs to fill a weekly MC raid and they're short 3 or 4 people, they're not going to give a fuck if you're a suboptimal spec. They'll take you so they can go and do the raid. People forget how hard it is to get 40 fucking people to do a raid. Its hard enough to get 25
Because any 'decent' guild is not trying to fill in a weekly MC raid. Have you actually raided with a half decent raid guild before? You are barely ever short numbers and normally have people sitting out in case of changing people out or people being unable to make it. If you actually play with people that have a mentality of wanting to clear content and progress you don't bring worthless specs into the raid. Sure you might take pieces as offspec and switch into a different spec every now and then but you're not going to be doing something like playing a Ret Pally
James Bennett
StoneTalon Mountains is always the chillest place to level. My favorite questing and leveling zone by far. Almost no alliance to bother you till you get to Salt Flats.
The point is that people try to act like Vanilla classes were so shoehorned yet it was the exact same then as it's been in every single iteration of WoW. You have optimal specs that the most minmax tryhard will always solely focus on, then you have sub-optimal specs that more casual guilds or groups will be fine with you playing. In current WoW it's the same, and it always has been. There isn't a single iteration of WoW where progression guilds were cool with you playing shitty specs. Vanilla isn't some standalone when it comes to this aspect.
Bentley Ward
I mean maybe if you have never raided past MC or raid finder level sure. Your post couldn't be more delusional and biased if you tried
Samuel Allen
>invite dead weight gear soaks instead of letting the core players gear up Have you ever seen "Geared X looking for raiding guild at Y content+"? Believe it or not good guilds aren't at the mercy of 100 DPS ret paladins, they can get real players.
Isaac Hall
I never played vanilla wow, I joined as a kid in BC. Did vanilla have pvp gear that actually mattered or was that added later?
Noah Powell
>for end game every class literally has one playable spec or role in vanilla Why do people who never played vanilla say this so often?
Isaiah Morris
hybrids complained about not being able to do as much damage, then their damage got buffed. then dps complained that hybrids had better utility and same damage, so they started to give dps passive utility buffs or take away hybrids active utility. and this cycle continued to the point that we have the homogenized garbage that is current wow
Austin Thompson
>vanilla shoehorns >Retail has more than one viable spec brainlet
Where did this myth came from, even?
Jeremiah Butler
At least expansions like TBC let hybrids be ok as a one of people raid as their buff along with their damage was competitive. At least expansions have allowed more than one tank spec to exist at a time. The list goes on and on. The expansions still have balance issues but Vanilla is the worst of the lot of them for it
Nicholas Morgan
>ele can consistently obliterate people without even having that good of gear if your targets are ungeared as well, but with gear you can climb to a PVP tier right below warlocks. the problem is actually getting the gear which is pretty uncommon or designated for the other casters
>enh is solid with the chance of 1 shotting people on a windfury proc enh 2H windfury in PVP is the most unsolid spec in the game. the best use shields and focus a little more on attrition than 100% slot machine bursting
Justin Taylor
Because the people who are saying otherwise didn't play past MC or were special snowflakes
Nathaniel Smith
>who are saying otherwise didn't play past MC or Okay, so they were special snowflakes with playable specs past Molten Core.
Aaron Morris
Pros: If enough husks buy and play this garbage, maybe they'll bring out a TBC server (the first time the game was actually good) Cons: Two or so months where people keep discussing this shit as if it's an enthralling, difficult or enriching experience. Conflicting.
Blake Lee
>Pure specs Hunter, Warlock, Rogue, Mage are always dps >Warrior: Dps/Tank >Paladin: Healer >Priest: Healer >Druid: Healer >Shaman: Healer Notice anything with the Hybrid classes and how they only have one viable role throughout the entirety of vanilla. The hybrid tax is retarded in vanilla and makes the dps/tank specs for them worthless
Dominic Peterson
If you hit Rank 14 you basically get a bunch of BWL gear.
Jeremiah Miller
It bothers you when people talk about a game that you don't like? Why not just close the tab in your browser?
Ian Adams
>and* Do you feel better now? Sorry that your ret paladin isn't getting into any decent raiding guild
Caleb Morales
Because we (unfortunately) have a considerable amount of soft skulls that think Classic is good in our gaming server.
Ryan Thomas
Except when hybrid dps specs bring nothing to a raid. I mean you can always pay someone to carry you I guess
Christopher James
The best guilds on a given server and the won't be struggling to find people, but the majority of guilds will. I was a member of a casual guild in vanilla, a few tryhard guilds on private servers, and GM'd a casual guild in BC and WotLK.
You're relying on 39 other random people on the internet to show up to every raid every week and be fully prepared every time. It just doesn't happen. People flake.
Carter Davis
>Do you feel better now after having won the argument? No not really, i still feel the same as i did before your proved yourself wrong. Gonna get breakfast now. Okay. I do not care about your gaming server. >Except when hybrid dps specs bring nothing to a raid. When is that? I can't think of any hybrid class that doesn't have some useful talent or ability. Druid Hibernation, Paladin Blessing of Protection, Shaman Totems, and so on.
Angel Reyes
why are you so mad about pets/archeology/races? >exploration In the 15 yo game, yeah
Charles Martinez
Yea it's 15 yo and still more exciting than any new trash.
Nathan Smith
The value a hybrid brings to the raid along with their own dps is less than that of a pure dps class. Again you might be able to raid with a couple people but don't expect to be in any decent kind of guild or group. I'm sorry but the sooner you realize your spec is worthless the less time you will use rerolling
Of course I agree and it's especially prevalent in more casual guilds. You need to play with people with a similar mindset or as you say people flake. Sure every few months I've raided there might be a night where it doesn't fire because two tanks had emergencies come up but thankfully otherwise I haven't had to deal with flaky guilds myself in a very long time
Caleb Barnes
At this point i don't even know who's worse - retail idiots or classic retards.
Connor Martin
I know you guys are really looking forward to classic but honestly the rose tint on some of your guys glasses is super thick. All you are going to do is disappoint yourself if some of you keep this up
Christopher Butler
I'm glad i won't be rolling with you in this game. Your guild is gonna suck donkey dick without paladins, druids, shamans etc. Lel. You'll be decked out in blues, at least.
Nathan Nelson
TBC wasn't any better. Most progression guilds just stacked hunters and destro locks and pally tanks come tier 6 and sunwell were pretty much told to fuck off cause warriors were the best again and bears were 2nd behind them.
Aaron Flores
>le rose tinted goggles meme Say the line again, shill.
David Garcia
Wailing Caverns is A/S tier. It does a great job at teaching you the basics of dungeons which didn't happen with RFC, plus the rewards were great. You have to learn how to ranged pull unless you pull 3-4 packs of druids/snakes and wipe if people don't CC reactively or interrupt, learning that core mechanic at level 20 goes a long way. For gear, getting the wand/your first pair of shoulders/pieces of the fang set/kresh shield/winning the role for the bag all felt like big upgrades since they were your first blues. People may have bad experiences in there by wiping on the murloc or just hating the length of it but it's one of the most memorable dungeons in the game
Hunter Wood
Good thing any guild has plenty of those classes just in healer roles as per the norm in vanilla. The main difference you will find between me and you is I have actually cleared content in any part of wows history I have played including vanilla. While you are just fucking delusional running sub optimal builds and specs and expecting others to cater to you. All you are doing by doing this is letting the other 39 people in your group down
Justin Brown
>"Cassic wasn't THIS good and had some objective flaws" >"REEEEEE BLIZZDRONE RETAILSHILL REEEEE HOME BROS REEEE!"
To be fair druid tanks in TBC were used throughout the entire expansion but only as offtanks. They couldn't main tank raids due to crushing blows.
Tyler Wilson
This is great, you are so butthurt that people play sub-optimal specs and actually succeed in the game. My analysis is that you probably want to play a sub-optimal spec but were not allowed by your dictator Guild Leader. And now you are perpetually assdevastated lel Triggered Blizzdrone Retailshill detected. How many mounts do you have?
especially with how much more nowadays people will just quit out or drop a group at the slightest inconvenience or cause they just dont give a shit, its definitely going to be a problem. the easiest example to use is ICC pugs. everyone used to pug that shit for the first 4 bosses and you would have all sorts of people join a group, sit around for a while waiting for the raid to fill, then just get impatient and leave and just say "ill just do ICC another day before the reset". People are definitely gonna do the same with MC. In a casual guild if they know they wont get kicked for not showing up, they wont give much of a shit, and pugs by nature are already flaky as fuck.
Mason Kelly
Not really no I played classes I enjoyed and knew I could enjoy raiding as at a high level. I mean if wiping in MC or Karazhan come TBC is your thing be my guest
Caleb Cook
>not playing LH RIGHT NOW What are you waiting for?
Jordan Brooks
kek, retailfags on suicidewatch
Colton King
Based stream.
William Peterson
druid tanks could get defense capped and didnt have to deal with that shit in tbc like they did in vanilla. they still werent as good as warrior tanks though.
but maybe you didn't mean that the way you worded it? ill just assume that
Brandon Powell
>the problem is actually getting the gear which is pretty uncommon or designated for the other casters what the fuck are you even talking about t2 shaman shit is not designated for other casters 2.5 shaman shit is not designated for other casters zg shit is not designated for other casters
i think you're overstating the difficult in getting pieces
Carson Edwards
Whenever I think of Zul'Farrak, i'm always reminded of tanking it on a bank holiday weekend whilst listening to Trivium. I don't know why, but that memory really stuck with me.
Dylan Bailey
defense capping in TBC and vanilla didn't stop crushing blows. Druids have no way unlike warriors and Paladins to stop them. You may be remembering wrong but the defence cap stops you being crit, not from suffering crushing blows
Christopher Adams
The 102.4 avoidance thing in TBC was to avoid crushing blows. Nobody cares about meeting an avoidance cap in Vanilla because shield block with 1 point invalidates crushing blows from day 1.
Carter Rivera
>missed it >party was cool with it, waited me to run around >die to patrols and respawns >they are bros and clear it back with me >miss it again
12 years later and it still burns
Dominic Rogers
I can't wait to see how these threads become more and more jaded post release. They are already turning back into a standard Yea Forums thread
Henry Phillips
this is like failing your initiation rite into manhood.
Josiah Brooks
ay fuck me its late. you're right. i do remember droods mt in archimonde and illidan once we had it on farm, but they were so beefy and would stay topped off at almost all times till they took a crushing blow, then get topped off again after. they were beefy enough that they could deal with the crushing blows, but thats also why most guilds didnt use them as MT in progression but they were fine to tank it once they got geared enough.
you can correct me if im wrong but im p sure thats accurate if i remember right
Adam Reed
Ya its pretty accurate and like you said they had so many critical points they had to hit with gear unlike warrior tanks which made them unreliable for progression as MT.
Ryder Flores
They should add more jumps and shit like frogger to raids. I love the summons of shame.
Daniel Reyes
Tried to make a tier list myself but its just not possible to completely objectively rank all of them, especially when some of them have all their wings lumped together. Maybe tier lists should be differentiated by lore/design/gameplay and generic memorability each.
For example, RFC may be super memorable for anyone who started out Horde but its a very plain looking dungeon with a bad layout and nothing really going for it overall. SFK is also pretty badly designed but it oozes atmosphere adnd has some interesting mobs etc. Length may also play into it, for example Stockades cant be rightly compared to BRD because the two are trying to be completely different things, one a quick, short, accessible romp, and the other a fucking city.
Personal experiences and preferences may also greatly factor in. Like, if you started out with a great group and did the entire thing(like me) Sunken Temple may look like a great adventure but if you later tried to farm it with random retards(also me) you could quite possibly have nothing but bad experiences of it.
>missing the jump on Thaddius in original Naxx >wipe your raid >39 other guys screeching at you
Colton Cooper
it does but ZG is needed
stop trolling, the guild that beat it first used a mix comp. 10 warlocks did jack shijt for method. Even this streamer admitted that you didnt need to stack.
He's saying you won't get chosen for your subpar hybrid dps in a serios raiding guild, ofcourse if you have an accomodating friendly guild that doesnt care about progression then you can play boomkin and run out of mana then get ordered to use your innervate on a healer.
If you actually played vanilla you wouldn't make up a fantasy world where all class specs were viable in the sense they are today in modern WoW.
Sebastian Baker
Cause they were scrubs that couldn't land on the fucking giant gear. >Or they left their pets up before they jumped
Adrian Roberts
>toxicity God I hate these people, I hope classic won't become a second home for resetera trannys.
Luke Lee
At least it was your fault, I was tanking fucking Shade of Eranikus (back when sunken temple had lower levels and small hole in the middle) and he did his knockback attack, throwing me right into the fucking hole to fall down through whole temple. I could not believe this shit actually happened.
Wyatt Barnes
SM is the most overrated dungeon. Fucking corridors. GY might be the only dungeon in the game worse than Stockades. The Scarlet Crusade are the coolest bad guys to fight but when people rate SM highly they really mean they think the armor looks cool and they liked to speedrun their free welfare blues.
Jaxson Smith
what a terrible list S: BRD, dire maul, gnomer, strat A: ragefire chasm, uldaman, SM, Mara, Deadmines, ZF B: RFK/RFD, Scholo, ST, BFD C: LBRS, Stockade, WC
James Garcia
because there was a bunch of cool quests i missed out on as horde and my normie groups just want to beeline to thermaplugg without exploring for any of the fun shit
Camden Green
No idea, I always fucking loved it and thought it should have been a raid. I mean, we were trying to clean out the capital of our bros as an ally. The entire thing felt so creepy and impactful, like a ghost town full of mutants and something bigger just constantly lurking around the corner. It was mechanically great too, I loved all those patrols, alarmbots and nigger dwarf mines, they were some serious shit.
I can totally see though why hordefags would hate it, it was literally a meaningless diversion to them
Oliver Fisher
>TBC wasn't any better I was Main Tank for Mother and Gruul... as a rogue. BC was better, get that rose tinted glasses off my dude.
Man, I miss all those fun little gimmicks of other classes tanking, especially warlock. I loved mage tanking on Maulgar minibosses and priest MC tanking back in naxx too.
Ethan Campbell
>461383028
>le golden man meme
(You) denied.
Michael Hughes
All these soulless remakes fucking ruined wow dungeons.
the OLD versions of Sunken Temple, LBRS/UBRS, Dire Maul, Scholo, Strat, were all fucking incredible. New shit is dog fuck. Even gnomeregan and sfk were made worse.
Isaiah Morgan
Think it's just terribly slow, and most of the quests don't really feel worth doing. There are a couple of good item drops, but it always feels like a slog to get through everything. Lots of people just ignore 3/4 of the dungeon anyways.
Always really felt weird when playing through as Horde too because some goblin randomly sends you to booty bay so you can be teleported there, for no reason other than so you can go get loot.
>The Scarlet Crusade are the coolest bad guys to fight but when people rate SM highly they really mean they think the armor looks cool This, i would join the Scarlet Crusade in a heartbeat if the option existed. They are utterly based removing both scourge AND forsaken shitters from Lordaeron. Plus they have incredible aesthetics.
Luis Johnson
>Hybrids need to be jack of all trades & master of all
Fuck this, Druids are more of a Hero class than Death Knights due to this entitled mentality
Christian Rivera
Plus lots of quests dealing them. lots of personal involvement, lots of background lore etc. They just came off as real and formidable, something you could actual learn things about from snippets of lore, rather than just an obtuse, unsubtle villain faction to beat up.
Cameron Green
I hope at least some of you guys going MUH RAIDING MUH ONLY VIABLE SPEC will actually play the game, because you are up for a pleasent awakening. Back then MMOs weren't just singleplayer chore simulators where you logged in once a day to collect some gold and maybe run a raid with an autogenerated group without ever sayibg a single word. The game had a social component, hell, it WAS the social component for the most part. You weren't just a completely interchangeable cog in a wheel that got tossed if it didn't have x class with y spec and z items. You were a friend, you knew the people you were playing with, you hung out with them. Back then, if somebody said "I want to try raiding as Ele", the others would help you get decent gear and you'd just fucking try it.
Leo Wilson
Pretty shit list, RFC should not be that high and was much more hated than SFK/WC. BRD is definitely the king, they put in a lot of work into that dungeon making it feel like an actual classic fantasy dungeon and it stands out among the rest for being quite the adventure. Also if you are putting SM all together that should be higher as well it was ran much more than the other ones around that level and was pretty enjoyable with good vibes (for lore, level, and loot reasons as well).
Brandon Myers
What you have to realize about hybrids is in a raid you are performing one role not multiple. As a tank you aren't popping out to heal etc, which means strict hybrid taxes make them worthless outside healing. At the very least they need to bring strong buffs that justify their slot, unfortunately they fail on all fronts in vanilla.
Mason Ward
>I can totally see though why hordefags would hate it, it was literally a meaningless diversion to them those leather quest pants were fucking sick though
Elijah Myers
Classic WoW is more in line with Runescape, it's not all about dungeons or raiding, you will be doing plenty of other shit
This min/max got to raid 24/7 mentality is so cancer & Blizzard should have never fed into it
Charles Diaz
>Back then, if somebody said "I want to try raiding as Ele", the others would help you get decent gear and you'd just fucking try it. this isn't accurate. I said that back then and was asked to heal nearly every time. Because even in 2005 we knew i'd go oom in 60 seconds and how powerful chain heal was, and that i dropped the same totems while healing that i did while shooting lightning. I'm not saying you can't do whatever the fuck you want but expecting random assfucks to be okay with it when they will always choose the path of least resistance is asinine.
Asher Green
Why keep posting these lies? I am succesfully baited. >As a tank you aren't popping out to heal etc There is nothing stopping you from doing this, between pulls and such of course not literally while being slapped by a boss, you have some kind of agenda with your shittalking of hybrid classes. I seen you here doing the same thing yesterday.
Jayden Reed
>This min/max got to raid 24/7 mentality is so cancer I know right... And certain people seem to view Classic only through this lense which leads to some really shitty and negative conclusions.
Caleb Sanchez
People still ran logs and theorycrafted in back in MC days. Again any half serious guild isnt going to take hybrid dps specs to progression raiding
>hybrids fail on all fronts in vanilla you're wrong though
Aiden Price
Back in Vanilla... I don't remember which dungeon it was but it was one of the early Horde ones. I was learning to tank and didn't know most of the mob/boss mechanics. Fight was going well, we got rid of the adds, I had aggro, and all of a sudden my healer and warlock just dropped fucking dead. Their health went from like three quarters or a half to zero. We wiped and everyone was confused. It was that day I learned about the cleave mechanic and paid more attention to positioning. Any idea what fight it was?
Dominic Cooper
>Again any half serious guild isnt going to take hybrid dps specs to progression raiding You're just categorically wrong. There are such guilds, they exist, I have played in them. You will never "win" the argument that "everyone has to play meta specs" because it just isn't true.
Anthony Long
You are just proving you haven't ever done progression raiding at any kind of level. Of course this talk is purely about boss fights because that's the only thing that matters in progression raiding, not the bloody trash. If you are a subpar tank or a subpar dps you serve no point in the group hence you are stuck on healing duties.
Christopher Harris
>Dumb faggots complaining about wisdom being up for probably a not elements curse what a bunch of shitters.
Jonathan Gonzalez
Oh for fucks sake, Carnac is that you?
Aiden Hill
>You are just proving you haven't ever done progression raiding at any kind of level. But i have, and so your entire post falls apart. I have done progression raiding in Vanilla, and Wrath of the Lich King.
Austin Brooks
You're in a shitty casual guild that isn't a progression guild user. Don't tell me you're gonna come out and claim the Guild Masters GF is playing feral dps hence they are viable. Have you ever raiding in a decent progression guild before? Everything is logged and compared online for every boss fight. Heck you can find theorycrafted breakdowns that show what specs are trash in any given patch or expansion.
Charles Adams
Ya they make good buffers while they heal
Kevin Bell
this is wrong, especially for druids. I've seen druids even in mc go from off-tanking in some fights like the guards near gehennas to raid healing against ragnarros or golemagg.
Lucas Gray
Lot of love for Zul'Farrak, never enjoyed it myself the place was a nightmare to tank for with all the patrols
Luke Jenkins
No, i'm not in any guild at the moment >le ad hominem attack will win me the internet fight!
You can do fucking anything in MC, try pulling that shit on Vael, or in AQ4` or naxx
Ryan Howard
>when you see a fellow member of your faction close to dying from getting ganked and you manage to get a huge heal crit on them to get them back to max health Is there a better feel?
That feeling. Or when your rogue is chased by warrior with bunch of bleeds and health bar that you can't even see and you manage to BoP him.
Michael Gonzalez
fix hunter or i don't play. legion was 10/10
Thomas Lee
>running brd for anything other than attunements
Connor Cooper
the best feel is letting him die then avenging him by killing the ganker and corpse camping him with your new, appreciative buddy
Juan White
hardly anyone ran it the way blizz intended though. even my first run in like feb 2005, my group just did the fast run to end boss. can't remember ever clearing the whole place during vanilla.
Nathaniel Miller
Based BoP'er, as an alliance rogue, you have my thanks.
Josiah Diaz
Why does he always end the stream when his gf gets home?!
i stole this from a rogue for my DPS set as feral tank i didnt realize how rare and crucial it was at the time so later i felt really bad and tanked/healed the dungeon for him a few more times even though there was nothing else i could have needed the only other time it dropped for him he lost the roll to another rogue i got bored of that shit server 1 week later but gave him all of my 450 gold and never logged on again. only reason i tried to help him so much was because he was a cool dude that never flamed me for taking it even though he had every right to so maybe thats the lesson
it actually does proc in cat/bear mode, probably just private server jank and not sure if they ever fixed it and IIRC top DPS druid rotation involves shifting out to get an auttoattack but this is probably irrelevant
Lucas Campbell
The dungeon is way too early in the game, you have like 2 abilities worth using in there as a healer / tank. Shit is "masturbating to porn on alt screen" tier boring and it features troggs for most of the instance.
Austin Green
>SM B tier >RFC A tier >WC F tier What an absolutely god awful ranking
Carter Hall
Nigger, everyone knows druids are a fucking joke in vanilla, we knew it in 2005, we did the fucking math even back then and in 13 we did it a gorillion more times with more refined logs and more autistic theorycrafters and they all came to the same conclusion. Druids other than healbots are simply not functional in a vanilla raid environment, you will be always laughably subpar.
And to answer, yes, HoJ doesnt work for druids.
Brayden Lewis
>skipping the best, most worthwhile part of WoW Yikes
Aiden Rivera
Ok you are the butthurt guy lol
Luis Jackson
Can't wait for Cuck'Thiran humans to be added to classic!
How in the fuck is telling an undeniable, mathematical fact is "butthurt"? dont project your shit. If you want to argue druids are not trash in vanilla, better come up with some real hard evidence
I would love to have classic+ content, extra quests, extra zones etc. in the vanilla design mentality but I wouldnt trust actiblizz to not fuck it up so its a moot point.
Joshua Reed
>can't decive if to go engineering or tailoring/enchanting for my lock
You just sound very butthurt, no one ever said druids do best dps but you have to rant about it all the time
> but I wouldnt trust actiblizz to not fuck it up Yeah this is sad but i think so too. They're gonna fuck it up somehow
Dominic Brooks
Colored parts are ass, last part is ok.
Dominic Morris
someone post the image without uther in the way please
Aaron Kelly
fucking terrible opinions. imagine putting fucking deadmines in s tier. as linear as it gets, point a to point b dungeon with 0 mechanics to speak of, everything is tank and spank. confirmed retard that spent his entire vanilla career at level 20
>new class: tinker who the fuck is he trying to fool? le "tinker" has been part of every fake leak since 2007.
Samuel Jackson
>shit talks one of the if not the most atmospheric dungeons, the first for many, the culmination of a huge storyline with excellent visual design, varied mobs and great drops
nostalgia alone doesn't make something great. you are unable to refute the points i brought up in my posts.
Hunter Fisher
engi is useful as fuck but tailoring/enchanting is so good for early money. Bags will be flying out of AH.
Aiden Carter
first white/grey quality shoulder slot item i can equip
Evan Walker
Isn't there a helm that lets Feral Druids do top DPS? the rotation is a bitch though
Wyatt Russell
>zf >s tier
Jaxon Scott
Verigan's Fist Whirlwind Axe That shitty grey mail head you get in Duskwood as a quest reward Cruel Barb The first dinky +1 stamina pantsu you find in Elwynn.
Cooper Torres
>West virginia > Show EASTERN plaguelands
Dominic Anderson
Deadmines is probably the first dungeon alliance players will enter, as such it doesn't need (even more, it shouldn't have) too much mechanics.
It introduces aggro control, need for careful pulling (goblin room and later), dealing with adds on a boss (VC) and similar stuff.
It being linear doesn't make it bad. It's not a straight hallway, its mines with different rooms, ending with an armor plated ship in a cavern.
Charles Thomas
White quality red hood that you get from a quest in Tarren Mill. It was the first head slot item i ever got, i thought it made me look so badass (UD warlock).
Dominic Anderson
60 is where the fun stops
Jordan Harris
You are responding to a blatant shitpost, user.
Michael Jackson
>expecting others to cater to you. This is exactly what you are doing though. You want others too play the optimal specs just so you can get shit done easier/quicker.
Nathaniel Wilson
wpvp isnt fun to you?
Adrian Bennett
Wow, SwoleBenji being a complete cuck and "hiding' his secret 32-38 grind spot. What an ass.
Austin Price
Oh no no, you're going to trigger the druidposter again.
Ayden Fisher
wpvp happens (and is more fun) before 60
Brandon Reyes
Fucking hate scholomance. Nobody wants to tank it, cause not much proper plate loot, without a priest for shackle and shadow res you always suffer through the first part and you need someone who can off-heal on the last boss, otherwise you'll just have to pray to rng god that your heal doesn't get teleported behind bars.
James Gomez
>released kung fu pandas >lol "bard class" is April fool joke What the fuck is wrong with Blizzard?
Oliver Williams
Retropal here, I love Scholomance.
Jaxson Ward
Probably Herod's Shoulder and most of the scarlet set in general. On a shaman they were just so great.
Michael Hughes
Engineering is mandatory for classic imo. So much good shit for both pvp and pve. You're a lock so you can farm good gold doing princess runs.
Eli Wood
Good luck getting that chest piece, they had like 8 mobs that can drop them and drop rate is like 0.1% or something i remember running it for weeks with my 60 hunter just so i can mail it to my pala, never getting it myself and buying it off auction for like 150g or something.
Isaiah Davis
Nobody cares, its not Lineage 2 to grind for levels.
You buy it lol. Going tailoring just to craft boe's is low IQ.
Anthony Kelly
this tbqh
Jason Powell
WHO IS ION HAZZIKOSTAS?
Evan Rivera
this nigga knows his shit
Pretty much my exact tier list. Thanks for saving me a few mins.
Ian Jenkins
really as long as you manage your threat and use your CC well who cares about the 2% damage loss on that one spell
Matthew Davis
>your threat
But you cant. Several specs lack any sort of threat dump or passive reduction. You fuck up, you die and wipe the raid.
>and use your CC
Which not every class has and the best dps classes usually have the best CC too.
>2% damage loss on that one spell
Are you a retailkid or what? The difference is not 2%. Shit like moonkin, elemental, shadow, feral etc does about 20-40% the total damage of a normal dps in the same gear and they scale worse and require more debuff slots even.
Luke Taylor
>cant decide which nature class to main because they are all just about equally shit
LFM ST 3 DPS >can't wait to roll a priest, join LFG channel and either create groups (instantly get a tank invite) or join a tank's group. >can't wait for the dozens of whispers from DPS to join the group. >can't wait to invite a warlock on the condition that him and the 2 other DPS run to the instance, while the tank and I continue doing our shit. >can't wait to reject huntards because they are all loot ninjas >pic related when huntards get mad at not being invited
I always liked its lore, its layout and its difficulty but what the fuck they were thinking with that level spread, fucking seriously. If you're the right level for the entry parts and the quests, you simply cant kill Archaedas and if you have the level for him, much of the instance is grey-green.
Carter Walker
>RFC that high >Uldaman that high >Maraudon that low >Sunken temple that low >SFK that low >WC that low
>Instance is not intended to be completed in one go This is ok
Isaiah Ross
Yes, weapon procs don't fucking work for druids.
Jack King
When its raining in Darkshire and you enter the tavern just to chat around and trade with the locals similarly taking a break.
Levi Murphy
Worked for druids on Elysium, just saiyan.
Wyatt Thompson
Its still awkwardly designed. No one would say a think it if would be split into two wings or be as large as BRD where you know you wont complete it in one go.
Private server bug tho
Jayden Hill
It's worth it just for the grenades alone. SL+CoS+corruption will have them tick at the same time, so you can use a grenade to set up a shadowbolt+burn or whatever the hell you want during the incapacitate and rocket helm is invaluable in any pvp, not to mention the trinkets
Julian Hughes
Did you know Uldaman has back entrance?
Samuel Foster
no
Parker Adams
How is that relevant to what I've said? Its still awkwardly designed and the level difference between mobs around the back entrance and Archaedas is still huge.
Kayden Wilson
>homogenize the content pls Oh it's one of those episodes.
David Sanchez
Ok?
Jaxon Reyes
I leveled with my sis (me pal tank, she priest healer), what is this "waiting for group" people talking about?
Ulda has no excuse for the vast level gap between the average quest level which is sub 40 and the final boss that is level 46 or something. There isn't even a quest to kill the final boss that could indicate that "hey, you are way too low level you are about to waste about 2 hours of clearing the dungeon and then getting your ass handed to you by a boss that you have no chance against".
But woe me, i guess people should have the clairvoyance to know that the proper time to go into ulda is when all the dungeon quests are gray.
Colton Lee
>contrarian the post
Deadmines is overrated for sure though. B tier at best
Gavin Richardson
>includes retail sub
Not bad desu
Camden Barnes
So what is your suggested solution to this pressing issue?
Jayden Davis
>RFC that high >Wailing Caverns that low ?
John Wright
Either just decrease the final boss level to be adequate to the rest of the dungeon or increase all quest and related monster levels to be adequate with the final boss level.
Of course this wont happen. The point is that ulda is terribly thought out and should go into shit tier.
Austin Hughes
Just ignore him, he is shitposting.
Gavin Allen
Fuck retail, would pay 20 to have classic only and not retail not really.
Jason White
>Of course this wont happen. Yes thank God it won't.
Austin Rodriguez
Plenty of healers to come around. Last server i played had a huge influx of them the first few months, most groups were looking for tanks or dps. All the good players also run guild groups.
Place wod above BFA and i completely agree with this list. WoD was shit but at least the raids were fucking good and classes and pvp weren't 100% ruined.
Justin Hernandez
Actually... ACTUALLY... I insist on this... please kill yourself
This is also my list. Other than the leather twink set Deadmines is way overrated.
Jonathan Foster
>promising mechanics like tradeskill specialization. Wut?
Daniel Scott
How about you aren't a retard and know how to play the fucking game. I cleared the dungeon without all quests being gray. Uldaman is unarguably one of the best dungeons because the end is actually a tough challenge.
Early opponents in the dungeon are level 36. You can easily clear the dungeon with a capable group of level 42s. I did it multiple times as a Healer (Shadow Priest talents btw.). The quests for the dungeon are from 40-43 unless you mean the prequests OUTSIDE of the dungeon. Bring some potions and bandages for the last fight, use cooldowns and know how to utilize your class to the fullest.
I mean at least we can agree that :
Raids
SSS Naxxramas S AQ 40, BWL A MC, Zul'Gurub B AQ 20 C Ubrs
Healer is the role that has it by far the hardest to find groups with on current private servers. Tanks get paid for tanking...
Logan Peterson
why did you make every point by comparing to the state of retail? rhetorical question, it's because vanilla is a terrible rpg and the only way to paint it in a good light is to compare it to an even worse one
>why are you even here? to make fun of wow babies all over again and this time it's extra fun because half of the people defending it have no clue what they're talking about
Adam Lee
Epic troll dude!
Parker Fisher
>RFC that high when it's extremely forgettable and has literally nothing going for it and most people's first runs in it sucked >SFK that low when it's one of the most thematic dungeons with memorable bosses >RFD not in utter fucking trash tier What the fuck is going on in this list?
Andrew Russell
>Healer is the role that has it by far the hardest to find groups with on current private servers. Who cares about private servers. You can't compare free, pirated shit filled with chinks and russians to paid servers, no matter what game it is.
Evan Myers
RFD is one of those dungeons that could have been absolutely great with just a little bit of attention. It could have been that super spooky place with the dancing skeletons but instead it became that weird, disconnected undead themed place connecting to nothing with the boring ass climb and the escort quest. And just to top it off, they made another razorfen instance that also has nothing really to do with the rest of the zone. They are just sequestered away in that little corner.
Cooper Ramirez
Good luck finding a group, hehehe.
Joshua Diaz
In many ways the area leading up to RFD is more interesting than the instance itself.
Austin Wright
RFD also has few interesting items. There's a 2hander and a cool shield, but they drop from a rare mob and he's almost at the end of the neverending spiral full of trash mobs.
Brody Bailey
Wasn't a problem in retail classic/TBC, doubt it'll be a problem now.
Ian Howard
>Private server bug tho iirc 'on hit' effects from gear (except weapons) are supposed to work while shapeshifted
Evan Diaz
SwoleBenji is based dawg. I fear he's going to fuck off out of here and make content for some other community if we keep cucking him though.
His streams / bantz are entertaining and he's redpilled af when it comes to PvP.
I want to play with him but I'm too shy / timid to speak up.
Who the hell cares about RFC its just stockades but lower level Stockades is better just because you can get like 5 turnin quests done in one run
Mason Butler
>461398719 Does this idiot really thinks anyone is fooled?
Alexander Miller
To be honest, I liked the concept of the stockades too, going in and putting down a prison revolt is pretty interesting. The same thing that ruined the entire defias storyline plagues it too, though. VanCleef died waaaay to early, barely into unraveling the grand conspiracy linking pretty much all the minor villains together,
Jordan Wood
Seek help. You're never gonna become anything when all you do is plug your shitty stream and samefag all day.
Dylan Russell
Did a dog playing with the computer put this together.
Carson Ward
BRD is too long.
Michael Johnson
Put a secondary instance portal at the end of the first half that leads to second half. Allows parties to proceed if they feel confident enough, but also acts as a signal of "hey, this is probably where you should leave" for the lower level groups. This gives the back entrance even more importance, since it now acts as a direct entrance to its own instance.
Cameron Collins
>tfw like both the Stockades and The Violet Hold Nonconventional dungeons locations are cool, yo
NElf druid or Human Warlock, which'll be more fun?
Levi Taylor
Alliance trannies hate him cause he's anti-ally.
I think he's an okay dude who's just mega-brainlet to quest. It's painful to watch.
Brody Baker
Fake and gay
Dylan Thompson
Lul it's that Rick & Morty guild on Northdale that's mega cringe and super, SUPER awful at dungeons, as seen on SwoleBenji's stream where he did BFD with a mega-geared twink that was doing 5% group DPS while they were six levels over the content. Awful.
Jackson Morgan
sad!
Owen Sanders
yeah they were shitters. If you knocked off a CoDoom that would be annoying, anything else you can just reapply. Warlocks were the only class who had no reason to complain with their self sufficient HP and Mana regen capabilities. And, Wisdom *should* have been judged at all times for your mages and hunters, since its such a range heavy encounter.
Wyatt Johnson
Yeah sucks that the board is getting taken over by 'em, and that R&M memesters are bad at video games.
Daniel Phillips
Play with lads like SwoleBenji who understand being based and redpilled is not to demean or punish those for mistakes. It doesn't make a strong tribe. I'd purposely wipe those fuckers and cause massive guild drama as much as I could.
Got a Discord link? I wanna pay them a visit. I'll get revenge for you user. I ain't got shit better to do.
Josiah Allen
>yeah bro just utilize your class to the fullest, don't worry about that pointless 5 level difference totally shitting on your ability to actually land a successful hit
Alexander Hernandez
Yeah, im thinking that this SwoleBenji guy is fucking based
Jace Morgan
Why don't you guys like lbrs?
Noah Allen
So is this a promise or what..?
Ayden Bailey
they have bad memories as kids and couldn't navigate it. or they're mentally retarded and couldn't navigate it on private servers.
Jacob Perry
>it's that time of the day when the former tripfag starts talking to himself
