Dark Souls 2 is a bad game

DS2 is the third best souls game after BB and DS3

except for bloodborne, ds2 has the best story

Its funny how people have no legitimate arguments for ds2 beyond pointing out obvious unintended bugs or saying they didnt like the level design.

In the end ds2 did a lot great and i'm sad that a lot of the good features didn't make it into ds3. especially NG+ adding enemies and the pursuer.

Demon's Souls.

>pursuer
>doesn't actually pursue you
B-team, you had one fucking job.

Honestly, it's a shame it's a bad game. There's so much to like about it, stupid bullshit aside.

If only it was fun

So is Sekiro.

Based. Keep dabbing on the ds3 kiddies

No.

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>>linear as shit at the start
It is the least linear out of the whole franchise what the fuck?

Considering DS2 SOTFS consistently has x3 more players tham both DSR and DSPTD combined on steam, that's objectively wrong.

I never beat that dagon (LOL)

Forgot to mention the sheer amount of content DS2 has. The DLC's alone are almost a game of their own when bundled together.

It is. It might be worse than DS2.

>>Poise is always relevant
Stopped reading here

>DaS2 by itself
The worst Souls game
>DaS2 with the DLC
The best Souls game

Prove me wrong. Oh wait, you can't.

No it isn't

And why is that?

Depends. Vanilla is annoyingly linear, SOTFS opens up early by giving you branches right away.

fpbp

>DaS2 by itself
The worst Souls game by a large margin

>DaS2 with the DLC
The worst Souls game by a small margin

Swkiro is mediocre. It isn't bad like Dark Souls 2.

DS2 gives you 5 complete and open paths from Majula, provided you kill Dragonrider first to buy the catring for Gutter/buy the branch of yore for Shaded Woods/get Licia to open up Deadman's Copse.
Plus if you know what you're doing you can enter the Shulva DLC in 20 minutes after character creation.

It's the worst dark souls game but it's still a 9/10.

DS2 has 4 straight lines coming out of Majula

Giving you some liberty in the order you do them doesn't make it not linear

kisama... korosuso temee

That is a fucking lie. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are the least linear.

Because its great.

The DLC are also shit tho

based knowledgeable poster

>Entirely subjective list that's also flat out wrong about the game being linear

That's exactly what it means you fucking moron

DS3 is a literal straight line, DS1 and DS2 give you 4+ paths right away

False, Demon's Souls forces you to beat Phalanx to open up archstones.
DS1 has only 2 paths if you don't get the master key.
DS2 has 4 paths right out of majula with a 5th opening up after beating the first boss.

What are the gameplay/ mechanic tricks in Dark Souls 2? I need to know more

Like how you can use Binoculars to aim spells at max distance

>saying they didnt like the level design.
The level design was objectively shit. It's so bad that you don't need any other justification for why the game is bad.

Stupid bullshit was what I loved and hated about the game. The Royal Rat covenant, the possibility of dual wielding shields and whips and other stupid shit, the gender swap coffin. Shit was jokes.

They're better than any other DLC besides Old Hunters
Sunken King was especially good

You're forced to either sit through Heide or Giant Forest at the start. How is that not linear?

All three are very non-linear. DS3 is the only one that's linear. Bloodborne technically isn't linear either but its not as open as the former three.

>DS1 has only 2 paths if you don't get the master key.
>DS1 has less paths if you ignore the other path that opens up way more paths

>Two choices
>Linear
Okay man

>Deadman's Copse
confirmed never played the game

uhhh, uhhhhhh, is that the size of your hitbox???

You know what I meant by "stupid bullshit", it wasn't any of that

I wouldn't really say it's mediocre. It's subpar in almost every way.
Hardly what I'd call great.

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Master key opens up 1 extra path, so DS1 still has less paths than DS2, though the areas are bigger and more interesting.
DS2 is still king of non-linearity.

My opinion exactly. I thought it was a letdown compared to ds1 when I played through the vanilla version on ps3, then bought scholar on pc a few years later and loved it. Even the base game with its mobs, geographical absurdity of the path from majula to the lava boss, and hub structure of the world as opposed to the interconnected ds1 map, is the most fun I've ever had in a souls game.

>The bad endings boss is too easy

>Forest of Fallen Giants
>Tower of Flame
>Shaded Woods
>Grave of Saints
>Gutter

You can access all of these right away, a couple require you get some souls and either spend them on a branch or level up so you survive the falls through the well, any of seven bosses can be the first boss you defeat

>one longer tunnel and one short dead end isn't linear, but 5 branching paths is

>aesthetically the most unique areas in the series
>actual new ideas (NPC invaders having unique AI patterns, the ghost enemies in the sunken DLC that you can only kill after finding their tomb, the gathering of knights for the final boss in the snow DLC, etc.)
>some of the best bosses in the entire series like Sinh, Fume Knight, Sir Allone and Burnt Ivory King
>great lore that's actually well presented
You would have to be a complete and utter retard to think the DaS2 DLCs are shit.

Get ready for retards who think a couple completely linear paths where order is the only difference is better than DaS3 where progression order is more linear, but the levels themselves are properly designed.

Vanilla didn't have the statues blocking everything to begin with

>blighttown
>tomb of giants
>the entirety of lost izalith
yeah no, there have always been shit areas in the souls games. level design in ds2 had it's faults but you're delusional if you think it was significantly worse.

>they're all accessible right away if you spend time to complete other zones to unlock them first
The absolute state.

The Master Key allows you to access Blighttown, Darkroot Forest/Basin, Undead Parish and Valley of the Drakes right away, though the last isn't really its own area. And of course you have Unbdead Burg, Catacombs and New Londo open to you without the key.

All Sekiro bosses are easy to cheese.

No it doesn't. DS2 doesn't have any loops or interconnectivity like DS1 does. Or any sequence breaking for that matter.

DS2 isn't non-linear.

>its another retard thinking that posting a webm of cheesing a boss is proof that a game is poor quality
Absolute retard.

nigga the game is full of broken shit to force yourself through the game, you use double ichimonji because you want to

The branch is 12k souls, you can get that in 10 minutes killing the fatass ogres

There's nothing wrong with the level design of any of those areas. Especially if we're comparing them to the entirety of Dark Souls 2. Placed next to DS2 those are masterpieces.

Correct.
Being able to choose what areas/bosses you do first is one of the best things in DS1/2.
It effectively lets you build your character ASAP when replaying the game, getting to what weapons/spells/armor/convenants/boss souls you want without forcing you to play the same areas every time.

>All Sekiro bosses are easy to cheese.
>Only has a webm for the medic that attacks you for betraying the divine heir
Inb4 you post one of Mist Noble

absolutely delusional

Liking ds2 should be classified as a mental illness already

>trash x, trash y, trash z
user you cant just say thing's a piece of trash without explaining yourself

Show me footage of you easily cheesing Owl 2 or SS Isshin.

I wait for the day that Yea Forums as a whole starts flaming cherry picked screenshots and webmotions copy/pasted by people who haven't played the actual game.
Especially because, by sheer coincidence, it happens a lot with DS2 threads *cough*

Its non-linear by definition.

There's less sequence breaking because it doesn't have a set sequence, because its non-fucking-linear.

And it does have some sequence breaking. You can skip the first Pursuer fight by killing him right outside the Forest bonfire first, you can access Lost Bastille from either side, No-Man's Wharf can be skipped entirely, and again the four souls you need to open the gate can be obtained in any order or skipped if you hit 2 million soul memory.

Correct.

not when it has the best final boss in any souls game

It takes 3 minutes to go to dragorider and make him fall off the platform and that nets you 12500.

Branch of yore is 12K and cat ring is 13K so you can get both easily as there's a few consumable souls in majula.
And his death conveniently opens up Huntman's Copse as well, if you pay 2K.

>>Grave of Saints
>>Gutter
neither of those are doable right off the bat given you need to either grind for the cat ring or beat FoFG or Heide to get enough souls to run back and attempt it
>Shaded Woods
same shit but with the petrified statue, you're limited to basically two areas

>Sekiro is bad because cheese
Meanwhile
>It takes 3 minutes to go to dragorider and make him fall off the platform and that nets you 12500.

>"Demon Souls has its share of flaws but I love it anyway!"
>"Okay"
>"Dark Souls has its share of flaws but I love it anyway!"
>"Sure"
>"Bloodborne has its share of flaws but I love it anyway!"
>"Acceptable"
>"Dark Souls 3 has its share of flaws but I love it anyway!"
>"Fine"
>"Dark Souls 2 has its share of flaws but I love it anyway!"
>"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

DS2 is completely non linear, you aren't forced to do any bosses in any order, unlike BB and DS3.

And this doesn't involve some out of bounds bug like Sen's Skip in DSR, you can simply choose what areas to go to depending on what you feel like doing and what gear you want to get first.

The problem is DaS2 has several games' shares worth of problems and no redeeming features unless you're a subhuman retarded faggot who thinks dressup variety makes the game.

You know what you bunch of flaming faggots, instead of sperging at each other about why the game is bad and you should feel bad for playing it, how about we discuss why Dark Souls 2 is fun despite its flaws, because clear as day there are people actually enjoying this supposed trash heap of a game. How about that for a change instead of the same bullshit you've been repeating this past week?

>same shit but with the petrified statue
You get a branch at the start of the game

You can level up your HP a bit and survive without the ring

You're not limited if you take the 10-15 minutes it takes to access them, they're not hard-locked by boss or story progress, you may as well say Catacombs in DS1 isn't accessible right away because you can't kill anything there yet and have to grind before you can.

FUNFACT: The first Pursuer encounter right next to the second Forest Bonfire nets you a good 18k souls

False equivalencies are pretty cool. When you claim they all have their "share of flaws" you fail to mention how DS2's "share" is significantly larger than the others.

DS2 remaster without soul memory when

Area order in terms of which straight line you pick us non linear, but the levels themselves are awful straight lines.

>they're not locked behind a boss
>just do this boss before going there
The difference with the catacomb is you can run in and get the stuff you want, at SL1, with no other requirements. There's a difference between having a forced stat/item check, and just being able to run straight into something from the start.

BB is barely an RPG, your build is just your weapon and it has piss-poor replay value as a result, how's that for a "flaw" you insipid muppet. Its OBJECTIVELY worse.

>you may as well say Catacombs in DS1 isn't accessible right away because you can't kill anything there yet and have to grind before you can
but with Cata you don't need to kill anything save for Pinwheel, and even then you can just go in as human, run past everything, maybe summon Leeroy if you want, then dash to the boss

But it isn't, especially compared to everything new it brought to the table, which is comparatively larger to the other sequels.

Not really, Demon's Souls has far more issues like single digit framerates, terrible gimmick bosses that take near zero mechanical skill, slow weapons being awful because there's no hyperarmor/poise and infinite inatant full heals.
At least lifegems just give you slow ass regen, not instant from 1HP to 1000 heals.

Yet you HAVE to ring the 2 bells first (unless you do the sens glitch) before you HAVE to get the lordvessel. The maps are interconnected, which is neat (and kind of necessary since you don't start with bonfire warping unlike in the other games, and shortcuts eases down on tedious backtracking) but the progression of the first half is fairly linear.

Being able to easily cheese a boss is proof that a game is poor quality and it's not like Emma is the only one.
Lady Butterfly, Owl, Demon of Hatred and even Isshin are also easy to cheese, the other bosses of the game are so easy you don't need to cheese them.
Literally just run away from Isshin and bait his leap attack. Never fought Owl 2 because I didn't use a walkthrough.

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Then get souls some other way, kill the fat ogres a few times

Its non-linear regardless of how many times you pretend the term "non-linear" doesn't mean what it means.

>it's okay being a corridor if it's pretty

the absolute state of das3tards

>Being able to easily cheese a boss is proof that a game is poor quality and it's not like Emma is the only one.
Then every game From has ever made is poor quality. Fuck off retard.

bet you beat isshin first try, what a badass

Progression of the first half is not linear at all.

As you said, the only two bosses you have to defeat are Gargoyles and Quelaag, you can do them in either order and there are multiple other areas and bosses open to you. Catacombs is open to you, Darkroot is open to you, New Londo is open to you, Blighttown is open right away and you can skip most of it if you want, Depths is open to you and is completely optional, when I start a new game where I go first is entirely dependent on my build, Sen's/Anor Londo are the last things I do early/mid-game barring Four Kings.

If I'm going faith I'll do catacombs and Rhea's questline first thing, if I want to invade early-game I'll do Sif and Four Kings first, other non-specific builds I'll just go right to Parish and then do the areas in any order I want, etc. Its not linear at all, you just have two bosses locking story progress past a certain point.

I am specifically calling you out for saying being able to run into the catacombs, is the same as having to stop and grind or clear other boses like you've said for the other areas. Notice how I didn't complain about it being linear or not? I'm just saying, an area isn't available from the start if you can't access it without having to clear or other bosses, or grind other areas. There are requirements to access those sections, therefore it's not a path available at the start..

You don't have to clear any bosses, you just need souls. How are they not open to you? You can get the souls you need in 10-15 minutes, they are not locked behind other bosses or story progress.

>Thinking level design means it looks pretty
That explains a lot about how y'all can't see how terrible the level design is in DS2.

If the only thing other souls games had going for them were the boss fights then sure. But even if that was the case the cheese strats for other Souls bosses are still way more complex than those for Sekiro.
No I tried to perfect him.

>No! Level design and gameplay don't matter!
>Muh build variety!
Too bad every single build plays like shit and there are too many repetitive weapons within the same class. This isn't a tabletop game, so pretending number of options means anything doesn't work.

DS2 has several good levels, DS3 levels are often very poorly laid out.

>You can get the souls you need in 10-15 minutes, they are not locked behind other bosses or story progress.
That's how it's not available at the start. Notice how you say you have to do things to access it? That's not the start, that's after doing things.

What the fuck are you talking about? Compare DaS3 maps to DaS2 maps.

DaS2 is like being an ugly guy. You can have exactly the same personality as a handsome dude, do the same things, yet normies will still hate you for anything you do while prasing the handsome one

On what planet? The settlement in 3 alone blows everything in 2 out of the water.

But the whole 4 boss souls/2 million souls thing is completely farcical thanks to the tiny pile of rubble blocking the path. It's just dumb oversights like this that makes the game eye-rolling

It's not locked behind a certain boss/area progression, and 12K souls is nothing, even at the start.
The Old Knights in Heide give you 500 per kill, and the 2 sleeping Heide Knights near the bonfire 1250, so you kill those for 5 minutes and all 4 paths are open without and boss kills or needing to complete any advanced areas.

>DS3 levels are often very poorly laid out.
No they are not.
The problem with DS3's level design is that it's cookie cutter as fuck with high predictability and all too linearity.
But the quality of design itself within that frame is good. It's better in quality overall than DS2's level design, which kind of has the exact opposite strength, the levels feel more shoddily built but there's more to them just 'cause.

>2 million souls

I'm pretty sure that's 1 million unless it's different in SOTFS.

>No! Level design and gameplay don't matter!
Trick weapons are a visual gimmick and just being able to equip whatever you want is better and offers more variety and versatility.

BB's level design is nothing special, why do you fucking fanbois wank it off so fucking hard. The wooded area is ass and everything looks the same, Yhargul is absolute dogshit and everything looks the same, Nightmare Frontier is also dogshit and everything looks the same, do I need to go on? BB is visually drab, dark and overly cluttered, leading to repetitive visual design and a lack of visual distinction between many areas.

>It's not locked behind a certain boss/area progression,
That wasn't the claim, the claim was they were available right from the start. Going down to a different bonfire to farm for 10 minutes and then leveling a certain way or buying a specific item in order to OPEN UP THE PATH is not a path available from the start.

>No rebuttal to objective facts
>I-I-It's just d-dumb....

lol

>Catacombs is open to you
Until the golden fog.
>Darkroot is open to you
Fair, but you can't do shit with the abysswalker ring without getting the lordvessel anyway.
>New Londo is open to you
Only the first half.
>Blighttown is open right away
Which is the way to one of the bells, that you have to do the first or second thing?
>Depths
Same with blighttown - it's a transitional area to one of the bells, except it can be skipped.

Again, you're talking about how interconnected the maps are, and how many different areas you can go to in the game, which ahain- is great, and one of the strong points of DaS (and again, it's needed otherwise you'd have a lot of backtracking). For progression, regardless of where you go, you have to ring them bells.

Dark 2 is the best in the series.

>That wasn't the claim,
Oh so now you're just falling back to semantics and bullshit after getting BTFO

>Y-You're right, but you ACKSHUALLY said this word, so you're SLIGHTLY less right!
Hang yourself.

DS2 is non-linear, get the fuck over it. Or don't, and hang yourself.

Dark Cloud 2 was pretty great. Dark Souls 2, though, not so much.

>Trick weapons are a visual gimmick and just being able to equip whatever you want is better and offers more variety and versatility.
You didn't play BB and your opinion is worthless.

>faith is bad in both dark souls 2 and dark souls 3
>WRATH OF THE GOOOODS never

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>DS2 is non-linear, get the fuck over it. Or don't, and hang yourself.
See:

How do I get lots of souls at tthe beginning?

No, the point is you were wrong, and when you were wrong you decided you were answering a different question that made you technically right. You're still wrong about the initial complaint being discussed. Just because you switched to "BUT THE SKY IS BLUE! HA! YOU'RE NOT ARGUING THAT SO I'M RIGHT NOW" doesn't mean you weren't wrong to begin with.

you can get both the artorias ring and access to 4 Kings before the Lordvessel

>Until the golden fog.
Which is at the end of Tomb of the Giants and houses only Nito, Pinwheels, and Leeroy who won't invade until the fog is gone. I usually go down there for Rhea's miracles and the silver serpent ring. The large divine ember is there too if for some reason you want it.

>Fair, but you can't do shit with the abysswalker ring without getting the lordvessel anyway.
You can do Sif and Four Kings as your first two bosses, just kill the guy with the key to the seal and he drops it, you don't need the lordvessel.

>Only the first half.
See above.

DS1 isn't linear, what the fuck are you on about? Just because its not 100% open at all times doesn't make it linear.

Having to ring the bells to open Sen's in DaS1 can be considered dumb too - instead of facing dangerous monsters, the choosen undead might have as well built a ladder

>Blah blah blah semantics blah blah
I see you've chosen to hang yourself, get to it

DaS3 level design is garbage. Majority of the levels are straight corridors with small sidebranches (or the fucking swamps), almost all of the shortcuts you open are useless and you're better off going forward from the previous bonfire. There's barely any exploration or interconnectedness, all DaS3 going for is looking pretty.

The mental gymnastics people use to defend Dark Souls 2 are pretty great.

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Try actually looking at the level maps.

>Vague platitude not linking any specific post
lol someone's sick of getting BTFO

cringe

Level design is easily the worst in the series. Only really good area is Cathedral of the Deep, but even then half its shortcuts are pointless and the NPC quests require you progress without the shortcuts you just opened.

It sure must suck being illiterate on the internet
god bless

You don't see DaS3 fans come into a thread and shit on DaS1 because they can't cope with their game maybe not being the second coming they believe it to be. Same for all the other entries as well. Only DaS2 autists do this

This was a thread to shit on DS2, explicitly. "Oh no, how dare they come to my DS2 hate thread and talk poorly about other games in the series, this was MY THREAD"

>Y-y-you made THIS claim! I'm arguing THAT specific word, even though it doesn't change the argument or your point at ALL!

Again, hang yourself.

If DaS2 was directed by Miyazaki and Bloodborne by Tanimura, then even if they were exactly the same, you would be posting a laughing DaS2 character today

This is bad, even by retarded DaS2fag standards.

>DaS2 fans behave like deranged niggers for years, shitting up all the Dark Souls threads
>wtf, y u people be mean to us? we dindu nuffin
Hang yourself

Well things didnt work out that way. I dont deal in what ifs. As it stands in reality Dark Souls 2 is cow shit.

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>even if they were exactly the same
But this would literally never happen because Miyazaki isn't a talentless hack with no grasp of level design and gameplay, so why bring it up?

What's the most pointless shortcut in the souls series?

By definition, it must be something in 2 or 3, where fast travel is already a thing.

Perhaps dropping down from Yorshka in anor londo to the church beneath?

I can't wait to go through another linear pathway like Irithyll, but hoo boy it has SHORTCUTS so it isn't just a hallway.

If they were exactly the same then nothing would be different. It has nothing to do with the names attached, and everything to do with the end product. You may wish to refer back to 's comment about mental gymnastics, because you're working on a gold medal right now.

What the fuck world have you been living in, faggot?

Only like one level in DaS3 was designed by Miyazaki

>Have to leave the area and re-enter through the front door you now have no reason to use because you've already opened a shortcut and an entirely new branch of the area that makes using the front door 100% pointless in order to not fuck up the NPC questline
>If you visit the bedchamber area and bonfire, you're locked out too

Kill yourself.

Not the loopyland in your head, that's for sure

the tree you knock over in huntsman's copse comes to mind

>Walk along a straight path that exists in some weird space that defies physics with enemies just tucked into the cracks between walls
I too like the brilliant level design in DaS2.

I've been in souls threads for ages, and the only thing I've seen consistently shit it up is when that one autistic nigger starts shitposting about how bad DS2 was.

Quite pungent, my dear...

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The door going back into the building where you fight Vilhelm in DS3 DLC1. They could have literally lowered the balcony a bit and you would have been able to walk back into the same room the door leads to.

Which is almost always in response to someone trying to claim DS2 is the best in the series.

This thread is a response too?

No, which is usually a response after anybody tries to talk about DS2 in any respect. "Boy I wish they still had powerstancing" followed by twenty images and webms all replying to that one sorry fucker who dared say anything positive.

This thread is a reply in a general soulsborne thread?

what questlines are locked?

Cathedral of the deep main doors, although they have an NPC purpose I think?

Sure thing, dude. Don't forget to take your Haldol

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No, it's one of the tri-weekly "Shit on DS2" threads. which happen more often than actual series discussions.

You don't get to do Patches' stuff in the area if you don't leave and re-enter through the main doors you really have no reason to enter through anymore or if you go the the bedchamber bonfire area first, he just won't ever show up. You have to encounter him at firelink instead.

to be fair, the other two games suffer from the same thing
>have to meet Siegmeyer in thefar side of the swamp of Blighttown after Anor Londo, which means you would probably just warp to the post-queelag bonfire or just rush through that side of the swamp from the Valley of the Drakes
>Licia goes to the rotunda where you have no reason to go to after beating the dragonrider as you can just warp between that area and Majula

that's not locking you out of a questline

We are in a thread explicitly created to shit on DS2, and you doubt that DS2 shitposting was more prolific than defense? We have these threads just about every day.

Imagine living in a post apocalyptic world. One day you manage to find a still working PC. You boot it, and the only thing that's there is a huge folder full of webms used to shit on DaS2 on Yea Forums.
What would you think of the PC's owner?

He had a solid understanding of game design.

No, not really, the questlines in DS3 were very finicky and had time and annoying condition-sensitive triggers, they were more convoluted in their design which I found annoying. It was way too easy to mess them up or not catch them compared to Ds1 or 2.

With Seigmeyer's questline in DS1, IIRC he just stays where he is until you find him and progress. When he's in Blighttown its long after you'd have any business down there, but he tells you he's going "down below" when you speak with him at Firelink after Anor Londo, which at least gives you a hint and prompts you to maybe explore again.

I literally never ran into patches at all until he was at firelink and was all apologetic for apparently tricking me somehow

Having said that, patches may be buggy, but he's rock solid compared to greirat

>any of seven bosses can be the first boss you defeat

It's a bit more than that.

>the last giant
>dragonrider
>old dragonslayer
>pursuer
>royal rat vanguard
>the rotten
>scorpioness najka
>looking glass knight
>darklurker
>aava, the king's pet
>lud and zallen, the king's pets (if summoned)

I meant it locks you out of that portion, and Patches is always fun to see.

I just feel like it was stupidly structured given how the level encourages you to progress and had dumb fail triggers that made it easy to miss.

>Bloodborne gets good reviews
Another From masterpiece! Miyazaki is a genius!
>DaS2 gets good reviews
Paid reviews! The reviewers didn't want people to think they're casuals!

I remember sekiro asking emma how she got her sword skills or something but what would make him think she had any in the first place
if anyone would be so kind as to explain that cuz it's been on my mind ever since

>looking glass knight
>darklurker
>aava, the king's pet
>lud and zallen, the king's pets (if summoned)
Correct me if I'm wrong but these are only accessible if you have 2 million soul memory and open the gate right away, so I usually don't want to count these as that's probably not happening for most players on NG.

She has a title, and is the protector of the Divine Heir. Her reputation most likely preceeded her.

I can't speak for the awful localization, but in moon he can basically just sense it from her posture and movements and she's surprised he ascertained is from so little.

thanks you bros, my mind is clear now

Finally, keep posting it based user. The autistic screeching proves you're right

Ah, yes. When you can't actually make an argument against criticism, just call it autistic screeching. A solid tactic. I mea-- REEEEEEEEEEE

all ds games have shit story you ape

>Facts aren't facts if an autist says them
If a retarded person told you the sky was blue and grass was green you'd stop believing so?

Ah, yes. When you can't actually make an argument against criticism, just call it mental gymnastics.

The last thread had someone show why it was wrong right off the bat on the first point and literally no one responded to it.

DaS1's story was breddy gud

>Sif
>Aava
>Royal Rat
>Pontiff dogs

Those fucking dog things are the worst boss fights in SOULS games

>Lost Izalith
Could of been a challenging platforming area, where you have to avoid the lava; but nah fuck it, here's a ring right before the area that will let you run through the lava.

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>People complained about the camera in that fight
Boy they should check Sekiro. Now THAT is a shit camera.

This except unironically
>No armor classes
>No weight classes
>No weapon classes
>1 weapon
>1 stat
>1 Strategy

lore yes, but story is just: go ring the bells, kill these guys, kill the other guys, kill one last guy

>dark souls 2 is bad
>but still has the objectively best character creator

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environmental storytelling blah blah

Which game has the coolest sounding boss names? OP pic sounds lame as fuck.

Dark Souls 2 offered a lot more fun than Sekiro does, people just feel like special little boys for beating Sekiro because game journalists (lol) complained about its difficulty. Meanwhile literal gurl gamurz on youtube breeze through the game like nothing. And muh hard bosses are really the only thing the game has going for it, there is nothing else.

>literally any ds2 area
Oh look, a corridor. Oh no, there's an alcove ahead I sure hope nothing jumps out at me. Oh it was just an alcove with an enemy chilling in it out of view, no other point to it. Back to my corridor then.

If you're lucky the alcove was a room, maybe even two!

>Dark Souls 2 offered a lot more fun than Sekiro does,
This is wrong on every level unless you're a faggot who thinks dressup>combat.

>1 Strategy
And yet there are multiple ways to take down every boss. Multiple strategies that work, and various styles of play that you can choose to use or not. Funny how that works.

>giant tiger
>dog thing

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>everybody insist on making retarded RGB hair colors

the amazing battle system makes up for these, the same thing can't be said about bloodborne which is the things you listed+battle system which is sped up souls without any of the depth

pic unrelated

The PvE in DS2 is slow as molasses garbage and the player movement and combat feels like it's happening underwater.
Combat is slow and unsatisfying. Bosses and levels are mostly garbage padding. Atmosphere is not gritty or dark, feels like a kiddie advenrure game. Graphics look genuinely awful and ps2 tier.
Online would've been decent IF it didn't have Soul Memery and absurd limitations to invasion items and invasion time limits.

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Bonfire Ascetics would have been so good to have kept going in the series. Imagine a version of 3 where you could turn pvp in a zone back on after beating a boss/

>ring the bells of awakening
>a primordial snake awakens
>defeat these lords to get enough power to fight Gwyn
as long as you don't skip Frampt and Crestfallen's dialogue it's not that obtuse, really the only point of confusion for a first time run is why the ending is so abrupt

Now ds2 trannies can create themselves ingame.

>all of the things
I was the first person on the front line shitposting Bloodborne just being Dark Souls with less options, but it at least made up for it... somewhat... by making trick weapons two weapons in one, usually. Discounting the Tontriton.

Sekiro is even more of that. It's even more less to be a "two handed sword wielding meathead Goliath" and instead forces you down the path of being a fucking dex users.

I fucking HATE Dex users, I always have. It's not my playstyle, I could give a fuck. Using the Bandit's Axe is cool and all but once bosses start parrying it I get pissed off. The thing that got me to play dark souls a decade or so ago was watching someone use the Dragon King Greataxe to splatter some motherfuckers in pvp. THAT'S what I like. I can't DO that here. I unironically don't enjoy Sekiro. It's "over cautious and pokey" method of combat is not my style and I genuinely dislike it. I like being able to mix shit up if I want, I detest games that force me to play a certain way, and the Souls Series has been remarkably open ended on this topic. Just not Sekiro. Definitely not Sekiro.

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Combat alone doesn't make a game. There's literally nothing to do in Sekiro besides getting the different endings.

Man, fuck that stupid dragon.

>It's "over cautious and pokey" method of combat
Then deflect everything. Hit and run works, but deflecting/trading blows is what makes the combat feel amazing.

>Why isn't an action game with an actual story that focuses on high speed reaction based combat and vertical level design the same as an RPG with slow combat?

BB is the tranny game of choice
vg247.com/2019/01/18/bloodborne-helped-transition-gender/

>over cautious and pokey
hahahahahaha no, no my man you don't know shit bortha

You're right. Level design, story and characters also matter. All of those things were done very well.

>story and characters also matter
WRONG!

And Sekiro has the most atrocious level design of any game I've ever played.

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Souls and Sekiro have more in common than not, don't be dense. Yes they're different but they're also extremely similar.

Even aggressive poking is overtly cautious as it's reactionary instead of instigatory. Enemies dictate the pace of combat instead of me. Strength builds in Souls games, you could control the boss, in Sekiro, the bosses control you. You gotta poke their asses down to reduce their regen, then crit them, and their health goes back, and now you do it again except harder.

I made it to the top of the castle and beat the thunderfuck and just quit. I am not enjoying myself. Bosses have 4 phases in a style I don't care for. It's not a bad game, it's not even particularly as hard as the boomer media says it is, but god damn it's overhyped by you cocksucks. It being unenjoyable to me is not me saying it's bad. I just don't like it.

Give me a greatsword, give me a greataxe. For the love of god give me something that isn't a fucking katana.

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>user wants a reward in every room.
okay. not the same thing, but okay.

DS2 is faster than DS1

that's just a shit opinion

>All of those things were done very well.
No they weren't? Isshin is the only interesting character and lore is by far the worst of all From games. Level design is nice and all but when exploration is completely unrewarding due to the lack of useful items and it really reduces any fun you get out of it.

You're a fucking retard and your opinion is worthless. Sekiro is an action game. Period. Gameplay is what matters most.

it's slower than fastrolling an faster than midrolling in DaS1

All opinions are worthless. One that you agree with doesn't necessarily have more worth. I've played the game, I've played all the souls games, from Demons to Bloodborne, and this is my honest take. If you don't agree then whatever, but you telling me that I'm a retard for not enjoying a game that limits your progression to a solely linear style from a gameplay style and company that has inherently provided extremely NONLINEAR styles and methods of combat and execution, then quite frankly, fuck yourself.

Also there's no pvp or coop, so once you're done with the endings, you're done with the game. But I'm sure you don't care about that either, do you, cocksuck?

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It's the correct opinion.

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I sure hope all these peeps sharing their opinions on sekiro are not part of the 45%
that would be pretty sad

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fuck off, no one enjoys having to backtrack through ten miles of poorly designed hallway to find the one fucking door.

>Sekiro is an action game.
It's a garbage action game.

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>give me a greataxe
Sekiro has an axe... and it decimates posture when blocked.

>Isshin is the only interesting character and lore is by far the worst of all From games.
An actual story is something the games never had. The sculptor alone is more interesting than every Souls character combined, and vague lore in item descriptions is not a fucking story.

>when exploration is completely unrewarding due to the lack of useful items
Yeah, I wish they let me find 15 different versions of the same equipment with slightly different stats. Who likes exploring nice areas using nice movement controls to find enemies? Every game should be a shitty clothing simulator like DaS2.

One handed axe isn't what I mean, and I mentioned the Monkey's axe. It's neat when it's first introduced and has an interesting progression tree, but overall is worthless as a main weapon.

Why does a fucking AXE need ammunition?

>Sekiro has the most atrocious level design of any game I've ever played.
You should give DS2 a try if you really want to see bad level design.

you realize these stats also include people who just bought the game and people who lead busy lives and can't play everyday?

>All opinions are worthless. One that you agree with doesn't necessarily have more worth
No, yours is objectively worthless because you're angry at an action game for not being a shitty rpg with bad combat. You're a fucking retard, and your criteria are fundamentally wrong. You wanting another Dark Souls won't make Sekiro into a character building rpg, no matter how much you cry like a retarded faggot, just like someone complaining Dark Souls doesn't have precise melee combat and vertical movement we would also be a retard.

based darksouls 2 bro
this has been and will always be the best souls game ever

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Worst souls game, but i still loce the gane through all its many many MANY flaws

Not leaning one way or the other but apparently Lost Izaleth was rushed as fuck

As a coherent world I agree, after all, depositing grand souls into an altar to get over a 3 foot high pile of rubble is fucking retarded.

That said, the individual levels, and getting through them, was far more than "kill trash, kill minibosses, move forward". Which Sekiro objectively is in its entirety. There is not a single interesting aspect of any of the levels that has to do with anything that isn't in some way related to the enemies and combat within it. Every area is defined by the enemies, instead of the area's tough geography.

I can name the Gutter in DS2 as the most shit on area in recent memory and that place STILL has more secrets and exploration than literally anywhere else in Sekiro. Prove me wrong.

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> I wish they let me find 15 different versions of the same equipment with slightly different stats
That's Nioh you fucking mong
>nice movement controls
I sure hope you aren't refering to the grapple

I have and the level design fits way better with the gameplay than it does in Sekiro, not that it's good in way but at least it provides some challenge.

I work 70 hrs a week and I finished Sekiro by now much less fucking Genichiro.

Note that I never said Sekiro was a bad game. And also note that you're in the wrong fucking thread to be discussing Sekiro. You fucking immigrants decided to come in here and plop these opinions down. In your own words, Sekiro is not a souls game.

So what in the fuck are you doing here then, faggot? Get the hell out.

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Love* fuck me

I thought a whole month would be enough to finish a game like Sekiro. Unless all those who haven't even gotten to the middle of the game are the kind of people always complaining about their huge backlog.
I mean, something like Persona 5 would take a month (only a neet could finish it in less), but this? I don't don't think so.

>That's Nioh you fucking mong
That is very much DaS2.

>actually thinking this
DaS2 is fucking slower than DeS

>Retard literally has no point and shitposts hoping one will forget that he's objectively retarded

Guys can't we all get along ? We all should be Dark Souls bros. Liking 1, 2 or 3 more shoudn't matter, why spend your time shitting on other people's taste ?

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true
also Dark Souls bros can any of you get me a ps3 please I never had the chance to play deoms sols

If your entire point, in your own words, is that Sekiro is not a souls game, then you refute your entire opinion under the conclusion that you are in the wrong thread, shitting it up for (you)s.

If you're gonna deflect my every criticism against its comparison to the souls series, and admit it's not a souls game, then you are admitting in your own words that you are shitposting.

I am explaining to you what you are doing, and you know you are doing it. You will now leave.

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you can emulate it on PC but you need a good CPU

is this good enough mate
CPU Type
AMD FX(tm)-6300 Six-Core Processor
because it's the best I have and will probably ever have until I get a decent job

Except the person who brought up Sekiro wasn't a fan of the game, so you entire premise in trying to win an argument on a technicality that doesn't exist (which is fundamentally retarded) is faulty. Try again, you fucking idiot.

>5 years later
>DS2fags
>this thread

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You went down a fpbp (you) fishing shitpost until the end of the thread up to this point? Do you have autism? Are you being paid to defend this game.

I played Sekiro. I played it hard, and I did well. I never finished it because it's not my style. I went in expecting souls and didn't get souls. I got something else. I recognize the something else as meticulously crafted but it wasn't for me. I didn't much like the extremely linear method of progression, the extremely boring level design, the same boss you have to fight 4 different times. You coming at me with such brazen ad homenim is completely uncalled for and it's getting a bit dated, shitposter-kun. You're not impressing anyone.

Sekiro isn't some ineffable standard that can't be reached. In reality, taken as a whole product, it's extremely mediocre, and if it came out BEFORE the souls series, it would be a niche title, and never would have gotten this big. Say what you want about the soul series being "too easy", it was also more fun. More options to play, and more options to KEEP playing. Coop to help noobs, pvp to kill noobs. There was content in the game.

Sekiro lacks content. This is an objective fact. It is not a bad game. It's really not. But it's just not as good as the souls series, I'm sorry. Combat isn't everything. It lacks the world building, it lacks the armor and weapon variety, the gameplay variety, the spooky oppressive atmosphere, and it lacks the sense of community with notes and multiplayer. I will reiterate, if a long time ago, Sekiro was released instead of Demon's Souls, it would have fallen off the radar and never become more than a niche entry.

Sekiro, right now, is coasting on Souls' reputation to have gotten the playerbase it has now. This is not an opinion, this is a fact. Not a lot of people enjoy this game more, and the honeymoon phase is strong, a lot of people feel entitled to protecting its good name, but it doesn't need you, shitposter-kun. It doesn't need you.

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you might get 30fps but expect extreme fps drops through the game, especially when breaking stuff

No it's not.

>extreme fps drops through the game, especially when breaking stuff
Does CPU actually affect this when emulating? This happens on actual PS3 as well.

>5 years later
>Still no arguments for why 2 is not the best game except for a couple of buzzwords and youtube memes
kek

Not him but basically every medium-sized axe in DS2 is basically the same fucking weapon, and every shield that isn't obviously unique has basically the same stats as every other shield.

>Oh shit, you actually read the thread?
Yes. No amount of you crying angrily will change the immutable fact that you're objectively wrong.

it happens on PS3 too, but not 1fps for 10 seconds straight

wtf

wrong

It's funny. I give you paragraphs of citable, well spoken points and all you give me are witty 1 liners and personal insults. At risk of coming off as pretentious, I accept your surrender. We're done here.

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>Someone plays the game
>Points out the numerous flaws
>Retards scream about youtubers no one's heard of
Based

Not an argument
Sad!

If they WERE a game of their own they'd be way better than DS2.

Hell, just replace the areas for Rotten, the giant spider, and Iron King with the three DLC areas and you'd mostly fix the game.

this is you on Yea Forums
don't do this kids

Every Dark Souls game is bad.
Only casuals play it, and call it difficult to compensate for their tiny penisses.

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t. filitered by the chained ogre

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Yes?

all the arguments were already laid out, tried and tested to be true and accepted

No, that would be DS1 where every almost shield has 100% phys defense and ~50% for every element.
In DS2 they vary wildly from 50% to 90% physical with a few 100% ones.
Same for magic/fire/lighting/dark some go from 30% to 90%, depending on infusions.

>manga for ironic weebs
opinion discarded

Did the last thread hit post cap already?

>Well thought out post consisting of more than a sentence of unoriginal memes is Yea Forums
And you propose your short, uncapitalized, unpunctuated sleights are superior?

Not an argument

I fucking wish. At least then I'd have been spared the experience of playing this shitty game.

I dunno I just remember there being like 3 variations of "lion's axes" and a bunch of shields that differ only on the kingdom crest in front while all having extremely similar, if not LITERALLY similar stats.

The game feels stiff to play with most weapons and braindead with bigger ones regardless of the level you're playing in. The whole game would improve greatly with no touches to the level layout and with all the touches to the gameplay systems.

>At risk of coming off as pretentious
You're not at risk. You're an idiot who argued on a faulty premise and expects to be taken seriously because you're pretending to be logical in your reasoning. You're the very definition of pretentious, and nothing you've said warrants reading. Try again.

There's a trope about Samurai needing to be ready to defend themselves at all times even while drinking sake, and the comment about her sword skills comes after Sekiro watches her drink and goes "......."
Implication is supposed to be that he sees she has no openings or some shit.

i thouht ds2 was pretty good

What's not an argument? Ds2 is shit.

There's only 1 lion axe but greataxes and greatclubs just have similar boring movesets.
That's a constant for all 3 DS games not just 2.

"DS2 is shit" is not an argument. That's what he's saying. Explain why it's shit instead.

Only one of those fights is a bad boss and it's not even a dog.

that's an opinion

Not an argument

>i thouht
Checks out.

>I did well. I never finished it
Which website is your review hosted on?

No one's arguing lmao, it's just a fact.
Yeah, the agreed one among informed people.
What's not an argument? About what?

>if this were my made up universe where reality served the purpose of my arguments I'd be right and you'd be wrong!
And yet here we are

Not an argument

>Sekiro lacks content. This is an objective fact
> the honeymoon phase is strong
It has been nearly a month and a half, that's a pretty long honeymoon phase for a game that "objectively lacks content".

nice ad hominem

Actually if you get unlucky with the Havok physics on PS3 you can end up with an FPS bomb of debris stuck in terrain that will tank your framerate to 1fps any time you face the direction of the debris until you reload the game.

Honestly... I agree on most of your points.... but they still couldn't make it work despite having all that cool shit.... somehow.

>>Chugging Estus immobilizes you, and the heal isn't instantaneous meaning trying to chug while someone is sticking close to you will result in death
Easy to abuse by healing at half HP, tanking damage and letting the regen fill you to full HP afterwards. This is why they returned to instant healing in Dark Souls III.
>Stamina regeneration is tied to weight, so a character at 10% burden will recover their bar faster than a character at 70% burden, giving an advantage and a reason to make a low burden character
Copypasted from Dark Souls 1
>>Poise exists and armor provides relevant, but not overpowering damage reduction, giving an advantage and a reason to make a high burden character
Copypasted from Dark Souls 1
>>Phantoms and Dark Spirits cannot chug estus, spirits can only heal via spell useage which is slow. This makes fighting outnumbered even without mob assistance possible since any damage you do sticks.
Invaders can ignore this by bringing healing spells which can be replenished x99 but other than that hosts are free to chug while invaders weep, causing massive balance problems.
>>Can only perform four rolls before running out of stamina
Copypasted from Dark Souls 1
>>Can only perform 5 attacks of a rapier or straight sword before running out of stamina
Copypasted from Dark Souls 1
>Parrying
There's a lag compensation system in Dark Souls II where you only have to line up the parry on your screen correctly. This gives the laggiest player the advantage. In Dark Souls 1 and 3 you have to time it correctly on your opponent's screen, making lag detrimental.
>>Power stance
No powerstance is better than lack of powerstance.
>>Non-linear
There are only two or three areas to go to and all of them more poorly designed than Dark Souls III levels.
>>Fun PvP covenants that were unique
And present in other games as well.
>>Bell Tower covenant
Copypasted from Dark Souls 1

DS2's netcode was preferable to 1 and 3s. Confirmation of hits was fast as compared to a half second of just waiting to see if you hit the guy.

>Fallacy fallacy
Even then, I wasn't attacking his point by calling him a retard. Quite the contrary, I was affirming that he, the retard, does indeed like Dark Souls 2.

>"over cautious and pokey"
This is Havel-brainlet code for "I can't walk up and press R1 without looking at what's happening on the screen and won't just win because my numbers are superior".

Do you remember how long Undertale's honeymoon phase went on Yea Forums?

Like 3 months.

And people still generally enjoy the game... or are you going to say it's still in a honeymoon phase because people like it?

Bloodborne to be honest.

Imagine believing granular weight mechanics and poise in DS2 were copypasted from DS1 and then unironically trying to argue the merits of each Souls game when you clearly don't even play them.

>you see, the regen was abusable because if you lined it up perfectly you could SOMETIMES get more out of a chug than if it was instantaneous
Oh fuck off. They went back to instant in 3 because PvP conveniences were completely removed.

>DS2's netcode was preferable to 1 and 3s.
No it's not, since it allows you to land impossible hits on your opponent as position checks are client-side, not double confirmed.

This is why you can keep getting hit by a laggy player swinging the air a long distance away.

Double confirmation is shit and is easily compensated for, not to mention an incredibly laggy player is just as vulnerable as you are, even if he might get an undeserved kill before all of your hits catch up to him.

with half a brain it was easy as all hell to abuse and bait shitters into expending their stamina in a situation that leaves you at full HP
not to mention how retarded it makes surviving in PvE

In MY opinion. The Japanese names of the bosses from Sekiro are the coolest.
You can probably guess why I think that.

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>Double confirmation is shit
Uh, not really since it keeps the fight more consistent.
>and is easily compensated for
It's not though. The game doesn't compensate for movement lag.
And the latter case is just retarded for gameplay. Don't forget that in P2P system lag can go one way very easily.

>hits on your opponent as position checks are client-side, not double confirmed.
There is no such thing. "Double confirming" a position check doesn't make any fucking sense. DS1, 2 and 3 all use fundamentally the same mechanics for confirming hits over the network, the only differences are in the way parries and backstabs function.

>it was easy to bait shitters
It's always easy to bait shitters. Instant estus is objectively better for the player, and your fringe use case is fucking dumb.

No, DS2 single confirmed, 1 and 3's SIGNIFICANT lag time if from double confirming it. In fact, Bloodborne and DS3's awful fucking PvP when it comes to hit registration is almost exclusively caused by the double confirmation system. In DS2, hits that didn't connect on your screen hit you, but the same goes both ways.

Well after the honeymoon phase we went through a weird few years where people pretended it was never liked on Yea Forums.

I'm just saying maybe Sekiro will be given a more critical analysis in the following months.

>Sekiro is forgotten a month after release because it's not only a singleplayer game with fuckall content, it's generally forgettable and uninspired
>Dark Souls still going strong
Sad

>consistent
No it doesn't, single confirm is perfectly consistent unless there's SIGNIFICANT lag spikes going on, which would adversely effect both systems.

>There is no such thing. "Double confirming" a position check doesn't make any fucking sense.
You can read up on how basic lag compensation works, but to summarize
When player 1 hits player 2 on his screen, location information about the attack is sent to player 2 and their game checks if player 2 was in a location where the attack would hit when it happened. If it's confirmed that information is sent back to player 1 and he sees that player 2 got damaged - the only downside is that p1 sees this later.
DS2 does not perform that check. when p1 hits p2 in their game, p1's game assumes that their hit connected and now the game can instantly light up the HP bar all pretty with damage to satisfy your fix immediately.
after this the enemy HP information gets sent to you, but if there's delay with that, you can sometimes see the enemy HP go back up as your game's getting confused, thinking it damaged the enemy but having received no confirmation to that.

The problem is that you have to keep thinking how you move on the enemy screen, not how you actually move.

Instant estus was only good in DS3 where you could walk while drinking it.

>single confirm is perfectly consistent
Well that's just wrong and you don't know anything about video game systems and networking if you don't understand why it's necessary in P2P environment.

I basically love you user

Bullshit, instant estus let you tank a hit that would otherwise have killed you. You can just poise and heal your way through several bossfights.

It's necessary in a competitive fighting game where the infrastructure is able to compensate for the lag between hit and confirmation, not in DS infrastructure.

So much better than rolling R1 lifegem simulator.

You mean DS3? Because Lifegems, unless they were just crushing handfuls of old lifegems, weren't shit.

>You can read up on how basic lag compensation works
I don't need to read up on how basic lag compensation works
>DS2 does not perform that check. when p1 hits p2 in their game, p1's game assumes that their hit connected and now the game can instantly light up the HP bar
You are making shit up and I can show that you're objectively wrong with any slightly laggy DS2 pvp footage where you can see the delay before any hits appear on the HP bar. The only thing which you may consider different in DS2 is that the hit SOUND and decal may be played independently without confirmation. This isn't double confirmation.

What do you think "double confirming" even means?
In Souls online play the attacking player sends confirmation that their attack connected with the target on their screen. The target then replies to confirm whether damage was applied or the attack was i-framed. There is nothing to "double confirm". The attacking player doesn't see damage or a hit stagger until they receive a response from the target and that's the same in every single Souls game. There is no other sensible way of handling it.
If you decide to display damage and the stagger animation instantly based on just the client side check then you will be rolling back that stagger animation literally 100% of the time as there is always some form of network delay and the duration of the stagger animation needs to accurately show when the player recovers.
Stop with your netcode fan-lore.

Attached: DS2 PvP hitcheck.webm (854x480, 2.92M)

There's no technological reason to support any of what you're saying.
DS2 is the only one with the really bad hit detection. Are you trying to make some kind of argument about it being a good thing?
Why?

fpbp

>DS2 is the only one with really bad hit detection
Nigger have you ever played either of the other games? Not only id the hit detection bad, the hit detection is SLOW and bad.

>press square 3 times
>walk into fight invulnerable for a while
Reminder that HP regen item in DS1 was extremely rare because of how powerful situational buffs like this are in souls games.

I'm talking about this specific subsystem of the game at hand. The slow damage reporting doesn't change the outcome of the fights.
Lag causing the difference between hits landing or not easily makes for such a difference.

Neither of you have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

That’s a big dragon

nice arena bro, looks like when i used to make shitty scenarios in warcraft 3, i'd just make a big flat platform for battles. they had a budget though..

>shitting on other people's taste ?
i'm not shitting on your taste, user. there's plenty of shitty games that i love. don't tie yourself to the game emotionally, you're feeling attacked when people attack the game.

I don't know how people who do analyses and reviews all fail to mention how the graphic design of it also is a total mismatch to the other souls games.
The enemies, weapons and areas look like generic WoW fantasy as compared to the grungy and gross aesthetic of DeS, DS1 and DS3.

That's how the game works though.

Based

People don't like it but ultimately also don't care because people are not such graphicsfags. Enough complaining was done about the downgrade anyways, which is also likely related to the apparent visual style too.

The one HP regen item in DS1 was the fucking Elizabeth Mushroom, which was a win button.
Are you kidding? Being unsure of your own attack until well after it's been made is terrible. Imagine if you didn't know your hit confirmed in a fighting game.

That's not how DS2 healing worked unless you were scarfing old gems and elizabeth shrooms, which is not a sustainable strategy.

that was entirely due to the downgrade youtube.com/watch?v=z_JFDPCtXFY

all of this is true for every souls game except
>ds1 has good world layout
>only ds3 is linear
>all of them have good music

DS1fags have their nostalgia goggles strapped on so tight that it took From releasing a "remaster" (which was practically 1:1 with the original) for most people to finally realize that it's a piece of shit that's aged like milk and even then some people are STILL delusional enough to rate it as the best Souls game.
DS2fags are contrarians who could drink literal aged milk and pretend it's the tastiest thing ever just to prove how different (read: retarded) they are.
DS3fags delude themselves into thinking their rejected 1 and BB idea junkyard of a game is in any way, shape, or form a good game.
Sekirofags are in their honeymoon phase with their game, not yet realizing that it's an utter piece of shit with by far the least content and replayability and even less variety, thinking that the game's combat is the best and hardest it's ever been when really it's just a heavily casualized Souls combat system (a quick spammable parry that blocks if you fuck up the timing meaning there's no risk involved, a dodge that is also a parry, higher mobility than the ai can keep up with, firecracker stunlock, etc.).
If you are not a DeS or BBfag, you should unironically kill yourself.

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>If you are not a DeS or BBfag, you should unironically kill yourself.
>30fps
>pos4
oh no no no

DeS is a rough proof of concept

>Being unsure of your own attack until well after it's been made is terrible.
You're not unsure of your attack since you can predict where a damage will land before the damage pops up. Mostly just because it's not any more delayed than anything else that gets communicated between players. You can tell you've staggered an enemy as soon as you can tell anything else from them. However, that's not really how Dark Souls PvP is played. It's not reactive like DS3 and good part of DS2 PvP is. You have to predict the flow of the battle, not just wait to see when the enemy swings to know when to press O.
>Imagine if you didn't know your hit confirmed in a fighting game.
You don't if you have that much ping. Fighting games use pretty much the same system, mostly just faster one and with less error thanks to more constrained variables and more consistent lag compensation.
The difference is that it's accurate.

based
from keeps their best games as playstation exclusives to weed out the normalfaggots

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>Are you kidding? Being unsure of your own attack until well after it's been made is terrible. Imagine if you didn't know your hit confirmed in a fighting game.
Fighting games with rollback netcode do exactly the same thing. A hit which appears to have connected can be rolled back into a block or you getting DP'd after like 20 frames. The reason it's not as big a deal in fighting games has nothing to do with netcode, it's to do with the quality of the connection.
Online fighting games are played almost exclusively between people with good connections in the same local area. You're given the option to automatically filter out anybody below a certain ping, you're even shown connection quality before the game starts. People with poor Internet connections are then naturally turned away from online fighting games because they'll have a poor experience as well as getting few matches.

In Souls games you're matched with people all over the world with zero expectation of connection quality, no connection based filtering and will fight with people who would never dream of trying to play a fighter online. With non-consensual PvP you'll be invading players on 3G modems living in the arse end of Russia. These people would never be matched with you in a fighting game, they probably don't even want to play online because they KNOW their connection is shit, but Souls automatically connects them to the Internet and you then invade their single player game.

Souls PvP works flawlessly when you fight someone you have a clean connection to.

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DS1 is still the best souls game
t. BB and DeSfag

and ds1 is proof that fromsoft are hacks considering how much was reskinned from des

These animations really were made for stable connection.

>below a certain ping
*Above, obviously.

>Shit art direction is because of a graphics downgrade

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OP is an autist

Let me guess, you use the Master Key to skip most of the beginning of the game, then speedrun the other areas before quitting halfway at O&S, yet despite this you are somehow able to delude yourself into believing that 1 is the best Souls game?

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The door next to McDuff if it counts.

What he means is they intended for the lighting system to compensate for the shit art direction by making most of the game pitch black, then ending up having to change it allowing you to see the wallpaper.
I think with the motion capture and dark box rooms DS2 might have been an experiment in how far a team could get while all of their core artists are working on something else. Certain early areas like Majula and FotFG are well crafted and you can see the effort which went into the architecture, clearly though the majority of the game world was phoned in.

Hell no.

In which case you are an exception. But the point still stands.

I generally don't have as much problem with DS2's levels and areas in general as others, but the level of quality between good looking and bad looking areas is still jarring to me and the one thing about the game that feels really cheap.

Lighting and graphics play a big part in how everything is viewed. If ds1 or ds3 had that lighting they'd look like some generic fantasy shit too

I was wondering but can you get the abysswalker ring and kill 4kangz without the lordvessel?

Wow, so you are saying fighting games use the system, but without the hideous downsides because they are designed from the ground up to have responsive feedback? It's almost like responsiveness is hugely important and half second delays are unacceptable. DS1 pvp is reactive as hell, and has always been reactive.

>piss off giant optional dragon you would not possibly beat that doesn't even give any significant rewards for killing it
>wtf nigger!

Sekiro > DS2 > DS1 > BB > DS3 > DS2: SotFS

I'm saying DS1 uses a similar system as fighting games for a good reason and it was retarded to abandon parts of that system in DS2.

Not the guy you're replying to, but fighting games perform significantly worse online than Souls games do given any kind of latency. Souls at ~300ms is a bit shitty but still functional, Streetfighter at ~300ms flat out doesn't work. When you compare Souls netplay to online fighting games you are not comparing like for like, because the kind of connections you'll experience while playing Souls wouldn't even make it to round start in an online fighter.

>Shitkiro at the top
>DS#2 right behind it
This may only be bad bait, but I actually feel nauseous thinking that someone out there might unironically believe this.

>it was retarded to abandon parts of that system in DS2
They didn't abandon that part of the system in DS2 and you're an idiot.

you can glitch through a wall and fall through the floor to get down to the kangz, speedrunners do or used to do this for any%. haven't watched any for a quite some time so things might have changed.
>sekiro is the best single player experience / gameplay
>ds2 has the most fun pvp
>ds1 has the best world and gets a nostalgia bonus
it's true

You have never properly played PvP in all Souls games. Half a second is not much time in the combat of these games. It's less time than tons of player animations run for, like stuns or attacks.

No one who does actually thinks Dark Souls and Demon's Souls's hit indication time is a bigger problem than Dark Souls 2's massive phantom range problems.

>trash story and plot
It's a dark souls game these don't have a story a plot or a lore just random descriptions in items wabling incoherent things

But all the souls games are good and bad in their own way. Why does it have to be a fight for which game is best?

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Most of the DS pvp "Community" agrees that 1 or 2 is best, 1 for the tech and 2 for the responsiveness and balance.Nobody thinks 3 is workable.

agreed

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>Why does it have to be a fight for which game is best?
It really isn't anymore. Not after literally every platform has more than one Souls game to play on it.
People get controversial about which one of the games is supposed to be the worst, and for what reasons.

>DS pvp "Community"
>This guy I listened to on Twitch one time
>The darksouls1 subreddit
>Some youtube e-celeb
Begone with your shit opinions, DS3 has the best PvP experience and the most players of any Fromsoft game currently.

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Yeah, the poise patch really fixed it up but on launch it was much worse than DS2

Says literally nobody, even BB has better PvP if only for the moveset complexity.

>poise patch
You mean the hyper armor patch?

that clip gave my soul an erection

The prequel features a Smouldering Iron

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DS2 is a fucking mess, but because of that it's also the best of the games if you come from a "retarded bro adventure" co-op angle. I've played through every DS solo and co-op, and DS2 co-op is easily one of the best experiences I've had with any game. All the unfair enemy ambushes, nonsensical level design, shrine of winter rubble, fucked up hitboxes, knee high ledges you can't climb and so on had us laughing our asses off through the entire game. 1 and 3 are just too "well made" to have that absurd quality, but are definetaly way better at what the games actually set out to do.

Ok that inventory setup on the left reminded me of the space stone, reality stone, & mind stone lol. God I'm such a nerd xD lol