Well Yea Forums?

They both average to 10dps (or whatever based on attack speed) but one is more consistent, so obviously I'll take that one so I can actually play smart instead of just hoping to get lucky.

Cool ninja sword because I have high luck and will always hit 10+

What if people only have 1hp because it's a realistic game where you can only get hit once?

Sledgehammer applies a debuff that lowers defense. This debuff stacks.

At 5 stacks the sledgehammer does 3 times the damage the sword does.

you wouldn't be effective in one handed sledge

So the katana in prolonged fights and hammer for burst targets. Given the gap is so small only minmax fags would take the sword, as sledgehammer is more viable in multiple situations

>1hp
that wouldn't be realistic

Whichever makes me hayai the best.

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I can get hit by a sledgehammer at least four times

Peter Gabriel

speak for yourself, you nolift manlet

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Prove it.

depends on opponent.

>yfw 1hp

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A gorillion folds

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Cool ninja sword because you don't need to git gud you just need to wait until you get lucky.

>katana
>ninja sword

No the katana is always mathematically superior by .5

you want to smash with a hammer your swings need balance with both hands or you're risking losing your grip when you swing. also much more force carries with two hands

I would've picked the sledgehammer, but the ninja sword IS cool

n-no

>based mathanon

This thread is not going how the OP hoped, it seems.

losing your grip just means you've upgraded to a ranged weapon

shit, son, use your brain

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this is why the katana does 1-20 damage. its not actually random. its based on the enemies defense, so any enemy wearing steel plates or chain mail only takes 1 damage from the katana.

Dual wield. based

if you got one of a projectile, it ain't much of a armory

I think I'd go for the more predictable damage of the Sledgehammer. Assuming any damage output is equally likely, the average improvement in damage is not good enough for me to give away predictability.

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Consider the following.

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Always pick the heavy weapon, just because it's more fun to use.

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>better average damage
Is a nonstarter. Average damage means jack when risk is a thing.

If this were a numbers tight RPG like Darkest Dungeon, then no way in hell would you pick the 1-20 weapon over the 8-12 because the marginal difference in average damage is vastly outweighed by the possibility of getting RNG screwed at a critical moment. Similarly, if you were a main tank for an MMO, you would never ever pick the 1-20 weapon, simply because your goal is to have steady, consistent threat generation.

Same is true for dps roles. If you could suddenly spike with 3 20's in a row and pull aggro, you'd be screwed.

Does the katana have faster attack speed and better frame data?

Mathematically you could roll 1's for the entire game, the sledgehammer is more consistent.

sledge could do 1 dmg and I'd still take it over a weeb stick

It's not a risk. On average, you deal 10.5 damage.

Mathematically you won't.

I've seen enough anime to know how to effectively swing my attacks to where the lost balance of the sledge hammer goes into the katana which effecivly doubles the attack power. Basically you're transferring the weight of the sledge hammer to the katana.

>you're risking losing your grip when you swing
Not a problem if you actively deadlift.

the word he was looking for is probably. it's possible but very unlucky

there is zero guarantee that it won't happen, even if the chance of it happening is infinitesimally small.

8 is guaranteed

>Mathematically you won't
Pretty interesting claim, prove it

imagine being this retarded when it comes to probabilities and betting

You don't know how statistics works, huh?

>sword
0.5 more average damage
higher variance leading to
more overvill where the extra big hits won't help
and makes planning encounters not as possible because of the lack of predictability

I'll take sledgehammer for -0.5 avg dmg

>It's not a risk. On average, you deal 10.5 damage.
Reread what I said, you completely missed the point. I said the marginal increase in average damage (0.5) does not outweigh the vastly added risk of having a larger variance.

a sledgehammer is unwieldy in a fight. You gotta wind up for killing shots.
I don't know how to swordfight but it's like they said in the Zorro movie: Pointy end goes into other man's chest.

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don't anime usually contain one v mob fights. i'm no saitama, not gonna even pretend it's a good idea.

If you pick the sledge you're admitting to the universe that you are a total lucklet.

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no

>hits you for 20 damage 3 turns in a row
Get owned kid

What's the attack speed?

I'd probably just stick with a sword since stabbing is pretty effective depending on what I'm fighting. If I'm fighting shit with armor, obviously I'll go blunt.

SLEDGEHAMMER

I'd rather reliably know my damage range than rely on wild speculation.

If an enemy has 30 health, I can reliably kill them in 3-5 swings. Which means that I can better plan out all the other actions of combat (defensive moves, healing, etc) without worrying about how long I'll be stuck in it.

With the Cool ninja sword, I could be there for anywhere from 2 to 30 rounds, with good or bad luck. No thanks.

I don't know what you mean, you mean horde fights? If it's a horde fight then just go for big area attacks with the sledge then use the katana to single large enemies.

>hit for 1 damage 3 turns in a row

WOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Wise choice, and it really complements your fedora too.

The only game where I have that is L4D with the guitar being modded as a sledgehammer and in this case I still prefer the sword.
Speaking of which are there actually any differences in melee weapons in L4D?

>AoEs into DPS
what happens when you face up against a lolita demon who wants to kill you but secretly wishes to be your friend?

>no Damascus hammer head at the end of a cool ninja sword
It's like you're not even trying.

They have different speeds and damages, I think there's 3 tiers.

>faggots thinking a katana is cooler than a sledgehammer

This. If OP hadn't added cool into the sword's title Sledgehammer would have been a clear winner.

woop woop brainlet woop woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooop

What are the stats for the sledgehammer's pointy cousin, the splitting maul?

What he said But slower swinging 2h weapons are better for hordes because the attack animation persist longer therefore hitting more zombies while a katana is best for fighting specials

I use the momentum of the sledge hammer into the katana to do more damage

It is not even ninja sword (ninjato) but katana. I care more about style than damage anyway. I would take sword.

yes yes, very nice... but what about THIS

Attached: crossbow.png (2096x998, 297K)

Sledgehammer because ever since Red Faction Guerilla i have a sledgehammer fetish

Crossbows can only hit one target and take forever to reload, even if it has 100% accuracy until the debuff takes affect it still isn't worth the damage bonus.

you didnt turn the "anime" gay so that's i need to read.

Crit based, highest high.
Non-crit based, best average.

You need to go back

I'm fucking autistic not a weeaboo.

Assuming a uniform distribution for damage, the Sledgehammer has variance ~1.33, Katana has variance ~30.1. The difference in variability is so large that sledge is the only sensible option for a weapon you'll use multiple times. It also has the benefit of a decent lower bound for damage, meaning you can treat it as an 8 damage weapon and count all damage above that as a bonus.

>30% chance to deal 200% damage
>30% chance to deal 2 instead of 1 damage

WOOOOOWWWWWWWW

Crushing > slicing
Smashing > stabbing

The answer is clear

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Sledgehammer still wins because most of the time, armor reduces damage by about 50% or more. At 50% damage reduction, the sledgehammer is equivalent to the 200% damage of the katana. If the enemy has even more armor than that, it exceeds the katana.

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Give me an attack speed buff on the katana and I'll take it.

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>racial bonuses and drawbacks based on the player's IP location
somebody should do it

If the target has 8 HP, the Sledgehammer is mathematically superior.
>100% chance to kill
>vs Katana's 60% chance to kill

Depends how much points I have in str

Have you considered that, perhaps, the various possible damage numbers aren't weighted with equal chance?

>needing to attack first to be equal
P A T H E T I C

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ignore everyone telling you the katana isn't better damage on average. They are literally high school children. I know; I teach I high school stats. they are all suffering from a very common misconception

This poster is a perfect example of such utter idiocy.

sledgehammer
hate unreliable damage builds

But that's simply how it was designed. It's curved specifically so you can unsheath and swing it in one motion.

is this 1200 just use a fucking gun

>I WANT TO BE YOUR SLEDGEHAMMER

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Literally none of the replies are about averages you mongoloid, the point is that you aren't just mindless swinging on one enemy a million times so you can't rely on averages.

What does katana mean?

>Have you considered that, perhaps, the various possible damage numbers aren't weighted with equal chance?

If it were a 2d10, then the damage range would be 2-20. Yeah, 1-20 can be bell curved, but it's highly unlikely since 1-20 in any RPG means a flat distribution, since it's represented by a 1d20 even in pnp.

Also, we always assume flat distribution when no distribution is specified.

>GottaGoFast.webm

>Using mean instead of median as a measure of central tendency
statisticslets out

Never make any assumptions about a game mechanic. If you're unlucky it ends up being really convoluted and unintuitive.

>I teach I high school stats

and you still can't do your job right

Sledge Hammer. More consistent DPS.

He never claimed to teach english.

No you just gotta understand the MMO sustained dps vs burst argument. Both have their strengths in different roles. Often a boss will spawn shit that needs to die QUICK and the hammer is the most reliable way of doing that without luck. Sustained DPS at these low numbers, Katana wins out, and the boss likely had fuckhuge HP and its where sword bros are likely suited.

It means Japanese sword

Good thing you're not the English teacher, else your kids would be fucked.

Sledge because of overkill.
A 8 hp enemy will die in one hit every time against hammer.
Against the sword it can take up to 8 hits and will not die in the first hit 2 out of 5 times.

I also teach English.

sledgehammer has armor penetration but sword has higher crit rate

cool ninja sledgehammer sword pls

How can you study statistics and still get this wrong?

based
youtube.com/watch?v=P8wgrZ6t5BA

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I like Peter Gabriel

But Big Time is my favorite song by him not Sledge Hammer

kek

When the two weapons have the same average damage you want to choose the one with the lower variance. In other words, sledgehammer

100% depends.

If your average enemies has 13 HP then Katana is better due to 1 shot potential Sledge will never have. Meanwhile if enemies have low HP then sledge obviously wins.

What's the damage cut off where you would take the COOL NINJA SWORD instead? 25? 30?

of course I would take the cool ninja sword even if it was 1-10

Why do people keep posting this webm ? Katane isn't a superhuman swords , but that webm is so fucking retarded

>they aren't aware of the multiple hidden mechanics that make the katana the superior choice like it is in most media

Katana cuz same average damage but is probably faster swing speed

There is 0 guarantee you won't hit 20's every shot, Slege btfo (hint, if you argument is that a statistically unlikely situation can happen remind yourself that it goes both way)

It doesn't really matter in this case, right? Unless the distribution of the sword's damage is non-normal (which we have no evidence of) then the median and mean will approach the same value.

Well?

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But what about practicality?

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Katana has better hitbox. Compare the damage dealing bit on the sledge to the damage dealing bit on the katana.

Hammer, in case I need to pound in posts to solve some puzzles.

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Fire has more practical uses than lightning outside combat. However, a hammer can double as a tool for hammer things while a sword can do any cutting stuff you need. The sword would require sharpening while youd have to take care not to break the handle of the hammer. Lightning will fuck up armor more than fire, but fire has a lot of unconventional combat uses and may light dark places / keep animals at bay

But what if you need to cut puzzle stuff?

>lightning will fuck up armor more than fire
No.

You're right, at the end of the day you're just going to have to ask yourself if it's worth the risk of it going either way.

Me? I'll take my solid 8s.

>warrior comes at me with a rake
Uh oh

Depends on who I'm facing.
Lightning is obviously better against anything living, it will almost always stop the heart's beating. Meanwhile fire can fuck up undead things better.

Katanas suck tho

Ice Spear.

these thread mechanics are getting deep

They are middling. They are about as good as you could get with shitty nippon iron and steel.

It's just that going edge against edge vs a fucking vicegripped in sword is a really fucking ridiculous test.

Lighting can create fires while fire can't create electricity. Sledgehammer wins again.

>while fire can't create electricity
well

Fire because of the physiological aspect. Animals instinctively run away from fire, and it probably evokes some primal brain function telling the other guy to promptly fuck off.

use your teeth

>Sledgehammer: Well adjusted members of society
>Ninja sword: basement dwelling turbo-virgins

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>cheaper to make
>can outfit an army with sledgehammers
>sledgehammers do more consistent damage than katanas

Why does sledgehammer always win?

>close range
>lower accuracy

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Steel is more conductive for magical runes, so the ninja sword has an edge there with more steel surface area

What is fire ?

Everyone who picked sledgehammer needs to leave this site right fucking now.

or else

Gay chink meme sword or manly mastodontic dick blunt weapon?

whats the attack speed of both?

It's a turn based RPG where weapon speed isn't a factor.

>not going the sword for the RNG PvP 1 shot crits on niggers
YAWN

You still mad you're bad at your job?

>ever picking a faggy weeb sword over a hammer

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I barely even care about stats if the game has any sort of physics or knockback that depends on weapon. Hammer always.

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Sledgehammer. Blunt weapons are top tier.

Is everyone here retarded?
>(8+12)/2 = 10
>(1+20)/2 = 10.5

You're getting Objectively more damage from the weeb knife. All hammerfags are just wrong.
>Lower damage output over time
>Lower top end burst damage
Embarrassing

That's true! Yeah the video doesn't make sense

You haven't responded to the arguments in the thread that take that into account and add other problems of the ninja sword.

What game allows you to go full on psychopath with melee weapons while everyone else is using guns.

There is no argument that justifies the hammer

Sledgehammer, if they hide behind a door, i want to smash it to fucking pieces.Also they'll see what kind of damage i'll do to them when i'm through
Swords are overrated. Axes and Maces are fucing based

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Borderlands 2, the character class is literally called psycho

Yes there are, read the thread.

That is what I was asking, yes.

Median gives a better general picture of central tendency than mean because it isn't affected by extreme values. Like 1's and 20's.

No there aren't. They're all wrong

Assuming attack speed is the same, sledge is a better choice.

What kinda damage types do they do? If I’m going first playthough hammer but second is sword with max luck

>ninja sword
>stack agility to deal 3-60 in the time a hammer does just 8-14

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>the point is that you aren't just mindless swinging on one enemy a million times so you can't rely on averages.
You're pretending that each hit will do 1 damage. Katana is the better choice because it not only has a higher dps but it has a strong chance of killing an enemy in 1 or 2 hits as opposed to the hammer killing an enemy in 2 or 3 hits.

Hammer is only logical in situations where enemies do not have above 16 health.

You haven't been able to challenge those arguments.

Much appreciated, it looks quite lacking however. Anything else come to mind?

A sledgehammer is designed to hit sturdy things very hard. A sword of any kind will break much faster and more easily.

>while fire can't create electricity
>what is a thermal power plant

Has science gone too far?

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E.Y.E.

I sledge-tana your James Bond burger last night.

I gave irrefutable proof the weeb knife is better. Link a single argument you think is better

>Try to swing the blade
>The weight of the hammer fucks my move and i miss
>Try to swing the hammer
>Cut my balls off with the blade aiming inwards to me.

Reminds me of The Reaper from Dead Rising 2

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youtube.com/watch?v=JwBRacIFItI&list=PLAX8JHUJcFR2gh_WG3YJBITuO-tODVCcJ&index=24&t=0s

>but it has a strong chance of killing an enemy in 1 or 2 hits as opposed to the hammer killing an enemy in 2 or 3 hits.
In a hard game where I would be struggling to win every battle, a chance to kill an enemy with 1 hit less is not worthy the chance of needing an extra hit to kill.

Because all battles I get that extra turn advantage will not mean as much as that gameover I got for not killing that enemy in 3 hits.

Katana is better for 1vs1 large HP enemies only.

Sledge hammer consistent damage and you can remodel your home with it when you aren't murdering people.

MOTHERFUCKING BIOSHOCK 2, Drill only build (or drill + plasmids only build). Its not only possible, its optimal. Fuckers trying to hurt you with a pea shooter while you turn them into mincemeat. The drill is one of the most satisfying melee weapons in any FPS

Other suggestions:
Teamfortress 2 playing a demoknight build
Most rpgs usually have a melee skill set.
E.Y.E like another user said.

>Katana is the better choice because it not only has a higher dps
sure it has slightly better dps, and more overkill damage. All enemies don't have less than 16 health, but a lot of enemies still get to that point. And when you bring them down to 8, it won't help anymore to whip out a 20 damage hit.

>strong chance of killing an enemy in 1 or 2 hits
What are the chances? What hp is the enemy, what are the chances it takes many more hits?

my nigga that's always how I run through the game

Bioshock 2 was definitely a game where I did just that. Unfortunately for all the other recommendations it just seems so lacking. Not a fan of melee being relegated to slapping your weapons against something till it dies. Which unfortunately seems to be the common standard for FPS. I'll give all of it a chance tho, much appreciated!

No you didn't.
You repeated an argument that had already been made, and replied to, without countering what was in those replies.
There were 150 replies in the thread before your useless post. You brought nothing new.

Overkill is wasted damage
low damage rolls are wasted turns
Enemies may still damage you even at 1hp
Hammer is 8 damage with only bonus damage
No way in hell I'm going to gamble a turn in a hard game without reliable backup (bot provided in Op's pic)

>smashes
SLEDGEHAMMER NAILS THE COMPETITION

I ended the thread.

461228568

Bitch it ain't over till we have a sledgehammer against a katana.

Ninja sword, better average damage and lighter.

Sledgehammer is far more reliable than a rng reliant sword

Stab the cool ninja sword into the enemy and then hit the hilt with the sledgehammer.

This, anyone who disagrees just cant get their head around the fact that RNG balances out in the long run. Also sledgehammers have slow as fuck attack speed due to their weight.

>8 - 12 = -4
>1 - 20 = -19
Sledgehammer of course

Well, now I know what build I'm doing for my next Dark Souls playthrough.
Also fuck me that Peter Gabriel song is catchy.

youtube.com/watch?v=OJWJE0x7T4Q
Cool ninja sword doesn't have a cool song named after it.

based hammerbro

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which one is socket-ed?

I'm consistently amazed how brainlets on Yea Forums will go for the higher mean damage even in a case like this where the difference is marginal. Ignoring the myriad situations where having more consistent damage is way more preferable than massive RNG. I don't know if they're baiting at this point or they're literal "raw DPS > everything" autists.

if you're in a position where you have all the parts to use fire to generate electricity then you can also just use your own motion to do exactly the same, or burn some fucking coal or do anything else other than use your sword as a source of heat

>1hp
Someone flicking your ear would kill you if you have 1 hp

Katana, because A E S T H E T I C S - Fuck min maxers

t. never played a video game in his life.
you theorycrafting retards will never fucking learn will you

name a situation where consistent damage is more important than average damage?

Not if HP are stored in floating point values and it does less than 1 damage.

Retarded, you always go for the soft damage cap rather than the total potential damage. In this case, 8 is always greater than 1, not only that but a one in twelve chance is always better than a 1 in twenty. Fucking math how does it work!

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fighting a group of enemies with 8 hp

fighting a tough enemy with 40 hp. If I have the katana I can get RNG fucked and end up dying because I have to take massive risk. With the hammer I can calculate straight up that it will take me maximum 5 turns and I know exactly what resources I'll need to safely complete the fight

There's a million scenarios where consistent damage is massively preferable to RNG "muh average" dps. the problem is you absolute retards think everything is a damage sponge MMO encounter.

user, you'll be better off if you stop expecting any kind of reasoned response from Yea Forums. No doubt there will be a thread any minute now about the Monty Hall problem or the gold and silver balls or any of those other simple problems that this legion of troglodytes can't understand.

even /sci/ is embarrassing when it comes to those problems

You mentioned 2 very specific scenarios, I can mention 2 where the reverse is true. The simple fact that is in a vacuum the katana is simply better statistically, you have to factor in other things which we cant assume to make the sledgehammer better.

>fighting a group of enemies with 8 hp
What if you have a chance to miss or they have armor? What if the katana has a faster attack speed because it's lighter essentially negating the rng through multiple attacks?

>fighting a tough enemy with 40 hp
What if the fight is very dangerous and you can only barely manage to get 3 hits in and dying to try again isnt costly?

The cool ninja sword is definitely cooler.

>unsheaths sledgehammer
Nuttin personol ked...

>What if you have a chance to miss or they have armor? What if the katana has a faster attack speed because it's lighter essentially negating the rng through multiple attacks?

not in the description nigger, literally the only difference given in the image is damage range, and you need to distract with no real scenarios.

>in a vacuum the katana is simply better statistically

the only thing the katana is better against is for a marginal dps boost on damage sponge raid bosses.

>What if the fight is very dangerous and you can only barely manage to get 3 hits in and dying to try again isnt costly?

so save scumming western rpgs then?

Cool ninja sword
They're both the same but one is a cool ninja sword the other is some shitty symbol of the proletariat

>The simple fact that is in a vacuum the katana is simply better statistically, you have to factor in other things which we cant assume to make the sledgehammer better.
You have to make assumptions to make high variance better.

I'll take the consistency over the one that's a bloody gamble every time you swing. Hammer time.

This is a fucking video game board and games with these sort of stats typically favor sustained DPS minmaxing over all else in the most difficult content. Remember the context of where things are posted to frame the problem

>Mathematically you won't.
Have you ever played a bloody video game? RNG is hardly random, it gets stuck in a rut often enough and can give you consistantly low rolls. Leave your irrelevent ideas about probability out of a discussion about video games mathsfag.

>not in the description nigger
neither is your hypothetical 8 hp mobs and 40 hp bosses. All your analysis is based on what games are normally like.

>games normally have low hp mobs and an equal chance to roll any value in that range
If you are judging your scenario based on how games normally are then you have to assume you can swing a sword faster than a sledgehammer, if you aren't judging based on normal games then you could say it's just as likely that the weapons have lower variance and are centered more heavily around the mean.

>the only thing the katana is better against
nigger, you literally just said
>literally the only difference given in the image is damage range
How can you say ONLY better in this sense when better better in that one sense means better in every sense that we can measure it, it is better in everything that we know about it, using the word only greatly undersells it.

IRL I would pick a katana because fuck carrying a fucking sledgehammer around.

>neither is your hypothetical 8 hp mobs and 40 hp bosses.
I mean, he was asked
"name a situation where consistent damage is more important than average damage?"
and he used the mechanics from the op

you were adding entirely different mechanics

The irony is the mere fact that it bends rather than shatters while held in a vice against a fixed hit is impressive and in no way a point against the weeb sword.

You have to make more assumptions to say that low variance suits the hypothetical game. We cant just assume the game punishes variance but we can assume the game cares about your dps, almost every game punishes lower dps, barely any games punish higher variance. Also you have to make further assumptions that the variance is significant, if you are playing a game like PoE (one of the main types of games where you have simplistic weapon numbers like this) then you will attack 10s of times a second and the variance will balance out, or games like LoL where it uses pseudorng.

You are making more assumptions, im going off the raw facts.

1 good hit from a sledgehammer will either cripple you for life or kill you
I dont understand why games keep making them so weak

I wasn't asking for them because I didn't think they existed, I was asking for them to illustrate the fact that they were really specific cases and you could equally give very specific cases where the opposite is true.

wheres the katana /tg/ pasta

Ha holy fuck you're a retard.

>No attack speed comparison
Sledgehammer, I'm ripped as fuck

Also it's blockfags' worst nightmare

congratulations, you fell for risk fallacy.

Yeah but the katana is from based Japan so fuck your gay ass construction worker shit lmao

If it's a blizzard game they will remove the hammer special ability because armor penetration is too mathy.

>You have to make more assumptions to say that low variance suits the hypothetical game.
No I don't.
There's less of an assumption to make that low variance is better than high variance.

Your assumption is that low variance is more important than dps which I assume you are only getting from games you have played. But then you are ignoring that swords are faster/lighter than sledgehammers.