Are you replaying Sonic 3 & Knuckles now that someone ported it to PC with widescreen, extras, and no slowdown?

God you're lazy. Do you mean this?

youtube.com/watch?v=Fwr56XD2hCs

Sonic 3 is garbage

The dev occasionally posts new preview builds of the next update, and there's already slight tweaks like informing you of which songs are modded. Presumably he's working on the sound system so that Speed Up Shoes can actually work right.

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t,Mariofaggot

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I never ever played a mario game you seething retard. Sonic 3 is terrible.

stay mad mariofag

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Can you at least say why besides just saying it sucks?

Reminder that was a small update on the 23rd that fixed Knuckles' color palette in cutscenes and other bugfixes.

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what's the difference between air and complete?

Air is widescreen but has less features.

I THINK SONIC 3 SUCKS

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Complete is a romhack that lets you customize S3K down to the very tiniest details. AIR is more like a port that uses the original rom as a basis and also has customization but not as much as Complete (as of now). The main draw of AIR is that it makes it proper widescreen like the Taxman remasters and also has the drop dash unlockable. Once AIR gets more updates and sprite modding is implemented, I feel like it'll definitely become the superior way to play 3K.

Complete's a rom hack that has a metric ton of options, tweaks, bug fixes and so forth, and includes things like Flying Battery between Carnival Night and Ice Cap like the original S3 order intended, using the S&K Collection PC music etc etc. If you like emulating S3 as is, then it's the way to go, and you can also still play Sonic 3 and & Knuckles on their own with it too. AIR is like the Doom source ports, it adds widescreen and full Mania-style rotation as well as little extras that freshen up the game as well as an unlockable Drop Dash option, but it's lacking a lot of the excess bonus options of Complete and refinement of the alterations Complete had. As a result, its bug fixes are very independent of what Complete has, and still lacks a great many of them or has new bugs from the port process.

Is there somewhere I can find the planned features for future versions? Want to know where they're going to take it.
Wonder if they'll add more modding support and how far they'll take it, like letting you code in new features

He's right, though. Angel Island and Hydrocity are good but the rest is garbage. Sonic 3 was carried by Sonic & Knuckles.

>mariofag couldn't pass Hydrocity zone
>durr hur sonic 3 is bad :(
lmao

>lag
>no soul
pick one

>praise hydrocity
>hurr you just hate it cuz ur bad

Marble Zone maybe, Carnival Night I guess if you’re one of the smoothbrains who had trouble with the barrel, but there’s no excuse for not liking Ice Cap and Launch Base other than extremely poor taste

Sonic 2 >>>>>>>>> Sonic 3

Almost every one of Sonic 3's levels had one thing in common: unnecessary water sections.

S&K is only good up to Flying Battery.

its great, but not having every sonic 3 complete option makes it not definitive.

also some of the changes make me feel slightly autistic and i'd like an option to revert them. like the sandopolis switches moving faster throws me off.

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You are in no position to judge a platformer if you haven't played fucking Mario of all things

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>but I still wish we could just have the whitehead remake.
Why? There's practically no difference between what Whitehead would do and what Sonic 3 A.I.R does.

I'm not saying you have to like it, but where do you get off discussing platformers when you haven't even played a single Mario game?

Why does that change bother you? It just makes you waste less time. I also really like that he made the missiles in Flying Battery only need to hit once to open the path like in Mania. Good shit.

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Well, you don't get stuff like the improved physics of the retro engine at the very least. A.I.R is still based off the original so you still get the awkward jank like getting caught on ramps if you go to fast, etc. Also a less versatile bubble shield.

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Ice Cap and Launch Base are great, though.

A.I.R gives you widescreen, 60fps, and remastered visuals (Namely the special stages don't look garbage anymore as well as other small details), remastered OST in certain levels.

You can customize some of that stuff, and there's a bunch more options too.
Sonic 3 Complete has slightly more options, but not THAT much more like some are making it out to be. I think it's a bit overrated.

I don't think things like the bubble shield would've been implemented in a Retro Engine Sonic 3.
The idea behind those ports was a faithful recreation with improvements mostly on the technical side.

Same here, the only things I still want from Complete are very minor things like the unique level icons and Sonic 1/2 Sprites and both those things will probably be possible once AIR gets sprite modding. AIR is definitely superior to me, it's hard to go back to no widescreen and no drop dash and the weird choppy animations like the bars in Flying Battery

There's no reason to play any retro game on a shitty LCD screen.
Your widescreen also comes with motion blur and and shit tier contrast. CRT all the way until microLED becomes available to consumers.

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There's still physics tweaks like having more control over air momentum so that Sonic isn't wholly locked into forward momentum if you need to stop yourself in the air more quickly than the original.

Too much of a hassle.

I really loved CD and Mania for that change. Just allowed you to do fancier tricks while rolling.

Both have their ups and downs.
I love CRTs, and will definitely keep mine even after objectively superior TV sets come out, but I also appreciate projects like Sonic 3 A.I.R that enhance the visual quality of retro games.

>the missiles in Flying Battery only need to hit once to open the path
man i don't like that change either.
ive been playing sonic 3 for 2 decades, changing things on a whim because you don't like it shouldn't be a thing forced on everyone that wants widescreen.

also mania kinda sucked

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>mania kinda sucked
oh, ok

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Never seen anyone that likes S3&K but doesn't like Mania. It's like a weird mix of shit and good taste and it really makes no sense whatsoever.

christian whitehead is obviously skilled but I'd like to see an original sonic game with new assets

Well, I agree on that at least

just because I like the original game doesn't mean i'd like someone's romhack
classic sonic games are more than just getting the physics right and editing old levels, and creating new levels from old stage mechanics

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Why is Uekawa's art style so good bros? He needs to do cover art for the games again.

extreme autism

AIR is the best way to experience vanilla S3K, but some of the customizable features in Complete still makes it my preferable way to play.

What does Complete have that you still sorely miss in AIR? For me, there's not really anything besides Sonic 1/2 sprites.

Not the user you're responding to, but for me it's the Flying Battery stage order restoration Sonic 3C does.

>Sonic 2 sprites
>all of the different music/jingle options like being able to choose which version of a song I want for a particular zone and having the bgm keep playing if you die
>mushroom hill renamed to mushroom valley
>stage icons are related to specific zone
>that new cutscene between launch base and mushroom hill that uses elements from S&K's title screen
It's just a bunch of small things, but they add up for me. Makes the game feel more polished as a result.

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>Sonic 3 was carried by Sonic & Knuckles.
Based and redpilled

And I also like how 3C works on the PSP.

That would be me. Mania was good, but was spoiled by the shitty Sonic CD and Sonic CD-inspired stages. Fuck Sonic CD.

I remember there were actually some wars between the Sonic 2 and 3 spriters when Mania decided to base it off 1 and 2's.
Well, I thought they had better level design than the original CD levels but yeah.

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>I remember there were actually some wars between the Sonic 2 and 3 spriters when Mania decided to base it off 1 and 2's.
When I was younger I preferred 3's sprite because it looked cartoony, now I prefer 2's sprite. I actually think 2's sprite with 3's colors looks really nice and is my favorite out of the classic sprites.

Personally I think S3 sprites fit S3 itself, given all the shading that game used. It's like a hybrid of pre-rendered graphics ala Donkey Kong Country, and hand-drawn sprites with many derivatives from the prior games, if you pay attention to the shading and certain elements. The other sprites are more iconic and do the job, but Mania keeping the more detailed and pseudo-3D shading here and there means something like the Sonic 3Master mod with spruced up S3 sprites means it doesn't look out of place at least.

I sincerely hope you are not the OP.

This and 2, both of them are overrated garbage

You actually HATE Sonic 2? You have no business talking about Sonic.

Google sonic air, fuck op in his open wound

he isn't

>People dislike shit games
What a surprise

Can we all agree that Sonic CD is fucking garbage? Holy shit that level design is cancerous

>fuck op in his open wound
OP's pic literally says "Angel Island Revisited" in it. There's no reason to spoonfeed morons.

I don't like the gameplay, but I love the art style.

Literally the only reason I had any motivation to keep playing is to hear the soundtrack

This is true people only like it because of the opening and ending animations and le epic running animations.

I'm confused to be honest. Didn't CD used to be considered one of the fan favorites despite its flaws up until recent years?

No one liked CD except for the music and what said

Fan favorite among hipsters maybe
It just has fucking awful level design

Maybe, but I'll never get enough of those tunes regardless

>widescreen
does it have ultrawide support?

>Didn't CD used to be considered one of the fan favorites despite its flaws up until recent years?
Yes. I'd say opinions on it have soured a bit ever since Taxman's version released. These things happen.

Unleashed was just seen as a flawed, okay at best game by most fans up until the past couple years where tons of people started openly viewing it as "the last great Sonic game" or whatever. I don't see it.

If anything, CD was a fan favorite despite almost no one having played it until Gems Collection, where everyone turned around and were proclaiming the game was irredeemable garbage. It took the Taxman port for people to rethink it and just see it as something doing its own thing in a different direction than Sonic 2, thanks to the physics changes and things like the Special Stages being far more playable.

Honestly Taxman made all the old games better. Now if only they weren't stuck in mobile hell.

Sonic only uses 1 button and the virtual dpad is the best I've used, so mobile isn't a big deal to me
HOWEVER SONIC 1 DOESN'T FUCKING WORK ON ANDROID AFTER YOU PAY FOR IT
FUCKING SEGA NIGGERS I SWEAR TO FUCK

Nigger.

The Sonic 3 Master mod is based

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Opinions probably soured because more people were actually able to play it. Personally I've tried, but I just can't get into it at all. Like, from what people have said before, the point is apparently exploration, but all that seems to mean is 'try and avoid the metric shitload of springs placed everywhere'. The level designers had a goddamn spring fetish. You can't go ANYWHERE without running into springs. I TRY to explore, but all I find is more fucking springs.

If you want to play them on PC, Bluestacks is an option.

My only guess as to why there are so many is to assist you in keeping your time travel momentum, but yeah

Sonic CD has a lot more than that going for it.
The music is second to none in the entire series, 3D games included. Mania comes close, but doesn't quite overtake CD.
The time travel gimmick is actually cool when you're not getting frustrated trying to go to a specific time period but the game is screwing you over.
The levels themselves were all cool, even if the level design is fucking garbage. But they're thematically and visually more interesting than any of the other 2D Sonic games IMO, especially with the time travel gimmick included.

The biggest problem with Sonic CD will always be the level design, which is a big problem to have.

It's a very experimental game. As someone that can enjoy it, it's only by getting the Time Stones rather than actually time-traveling for the Robot Generators - and once you get the Time Stones that means all of the exploration is entirely moot besides achievements and dicking around, so the game becomes too easy and short. I see it as what Sonic could've been before elements were brought back in 3 for wider zones and multi-pathing.

I tried to get back into Sonic CD and I couldn't, it's fucking awful. I liked it the first time I played because it was fresh Sonic content that as a kid playing on Genesis I never got to experience. I can't fucking stand how awful it is now that I've played the other games recently.

Sonic 3XP? Didn't that get dropped?

Not 3XP, 3Master. They're different

I play Sonic 3 and then play Sonic and Knuckles. Like god intended.

Fuck your shitty attempt to charge me twice for S3K

3XP had a modern revival by someone else, but i'm a bit iffy on that. 3Master was taking Sonic 3 sprites, repaletting them optionally and then expanding the animations to fit Mania rather than trying to just smooth out the core S3 animations.

I mean, getting Complete lets you do that if you really want to. It and AIR are free if you go find a rom online for the latter, and Complete pretty much gets distributed as a heavily modified S3&K rom all its own.

Too bad Sonic 3 & Knuckles is shit. Stick to Sonic Mania.

But...the combined version IS what god intended.

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>The music is second to none in the entire series, 3D games included. Mania comes close, but doesn't quite overtake CD.
Fucking kek
>The time travel gimmick is actually cool when you're not getting frustrated trying to go to a specific time period but the game is screwing you over.
Thanks for explaining why its actually not cool for me.
>The levels themselves were all cool, even if the level design is fucking garbage. But they're thematically and visually more interesting than any of the other 2D Sonic games IMO, especially with the time travel gimmick included.
Again style over substance.

too bad it can't be official and have some touched up assets

>Again style over substance
Isn't that exactly what I just fucking said you dumb mongoloid?
Neck yourself.

So you are admitting the game has nothing going for it except for style? Thanks for confirming my original post.

Are you really stupid enough to have taken my post as praise of Sonic CD's substance?
Incredible.

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No i'm trying to understand why you even replied when all you did was say a bunch of nothing and explained why everything about the game sucks except style which is what I said in my original post.
>Wojak poster
Yeah you probably don't even know why you did it yourself.

>"u can only reply 2 me if u r arguing with me!!!"

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I like Sonic 1/CD and 3 sprites, for different reasons, and I think Mania's sprite is seriously lacking due to poor decisions (like not using 3's sprite) and turning him cyan.

Fucking fight me, faggots.

No but if you are posting saying
>Sonic CD has a lot more than that going for it.
And then go on to explain why it doesn't it makes you look retarded.

No I'm playing Sonic 3 Complete instead

Retard

>people only like it because of the opening and ending animations and le epic running animations.
I reply with
>Sonic CD has a lot more than that going for it.
>The music, time travel, and level themes/visuals
Things you didn't mention. I agreed that it's mostly style over substance, but not that all it had was "the opening and ending animations and le epic running animations".
Also stop samefagging, autist.

I really like the S&K collection's version of Carnival Night

youtube.com/watch?v=kpjwtMEqj8Y

But is it better than Sonic 3 complete?

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Please don't use the R slur. It is incredibly offensive to people who struggle with intellectual disability. Did you know that their lifespan of typically shorter than most humans? Do you have any idea how much the parents of someone who is intellectually disabled go through?

Here are some better words to use that aren't micro aggressive: fool, idiot, dumb, moron

Are you autistic and can't understand someone being hyperbolic obviously I was implying with my original post people only like it for its style hence the "le epic running animations"
>Also stop samefagging, autist.
cope

3 AIR has music modding, you can put that in if you want.

Are those goalposts I see being moved?

Let me add that the best solution is not to resort to name-calling at all. It's extremely childish. If an argument gets too much to handle then it's best to walk away instead.

everyone acknowledges that Complete has the better content overall, if AIR had them then it'd pretty much be perfect besides some of the AIR Layout changes having hallmarks of someone who isn't skilled at actual level editing

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Thanks user, I needed this laugh

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No its your 2 remaining brain cells finally putting things together and understanding that not everything is literal.

Replaced the first to games on the Genesis. Good games, but flawed. Screens are too small and you go to fast. If you've played them before,than you know what to expect. other wise you keep bumping into shit

But user, it's right here.

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Please don't use the F slur. It's extremely offensive to gay people. Also name calling someone "autistic" is offensive to people who actually have autism and other disabilities.

Nope, that's the goalpost flying away.

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>no slowdown
but my Genesis X Plus Core in Retroarch already does this

well shit

It might be what the designers intended, but it was split up.

Unless you think the designers are god.

I barely even noticed the changes he made in the AIR layout. I just play with the Sonic 3 layout anyway.

These achievements are TOO FUCKEN HARD
I just want drop dash mang

Are they? The only ones I didn't like was the one about not getting wet in Launch Base Act 2 and freeing enough animals in Flying Battery act 1.

I'm a speedlet and can't do the Angel Islands time trial one
My best is 47.07

Just takes some practice I suppose. The power sneakers help a lot.

Is there an option to not have sonic right in the middle of the screen?

>ive been playing sonic 3 for 2 decades, changing things on a whim because you don't like it shouldn't be a thing forced on everyone that wants widescreen.

While your opinion of Mania is beyond me, I wholeheartedly agree with this. Give us options instead of forcing this stuff.

You can turn Outrun Camera on so that he can actually outpace it, but if you mean romhack Megamix style where the camera pulls ahead of you, then no.

What other incompetent design does it retain?

sonic giving the bird was my first spray in half-life 2 deathmatch

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Why the fuck do you need CD/Megamix camera when it's widescreen?

stop being a drama queen you don't need it

Not that guy, but widescreen isn't as efficient as you think when you're so fast. And S&K loves its blindsides later in the game.

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is there a way to edit your save to beat all the cheevos
i appreciate the effort to make it more like a real official release but i just want my drop dash to be desu

The only S3K level that ever annoyed me with blindsiding obstacles was Marble Garden. It is nowhere near as bad with blindsides as say, Sonic 2.

gamebanana.com/gamefiles/8788

thanks brub

SEGA

Saturn

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>improved physics of the retro engine
*sucks air in through teeth*
I can find a lot of people who disagree with that

?

>all this negativity in this thread
I played AIR day one and fucking love it. It looks so good in widescreen and it's letting me find secrets I've passed by in my ~30 other playthroughs.
It runs smooth as butter and the physics feel damn near perfect. The achievements are the right difficulty for us who grew up with the game.
Knuckles + Tails is really neat, and a clever way to let Knuckles into Sonic's paths.
Pretty much every change can be turned off if you want a vanilla experience.

The only downside is locking stuff behind achievements, (like, now I have the drop dash after I already 100% my Sonic file) but it's still exciting to have a prize to look forward too.

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Sonic threads have had a lot of shitposters in general lately. Must be because Summer is getting here.

The Retro engine has other advantages such as not being emulated, a smoother special stage which has no input problems and an overall faster performance during stages. If you play these games a lot you can easily notice the difference between Retro and the original and they're fucking large.

I love it too user. It's almost exactly what I imagined the Taxman remaster to be like. The negativity just comes from either purists towards the original Genesis cartridges or people who are too used to 3 Complete. I still think given enough time, it'll definitely become the GOAT.

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The early AIR threads were comfy as fuck, so were the Mania ones. I guess we just can't have nice things.

I unlocked the drop dash when I got to Marble Garden, it's not such a big deal. Just use the stage select to do the Knuckles achievement on Ice Cap.

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I remember that one downwards incline at the beginning of starlight zone act 3 in Sonic 1 was always so picky on whether or not it wanted to work right, but it always works in his version. It was actually really weird going back to the original trilogy after playing so much Mania cause that game is just smoother than butter itself.
It'll probably get better again when new things are announced.

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Assuming Mania 2 is coming and assuming that half the stages will be returnees, which is very likely no matter how much we want an all original game, which stages would you like to see?

For me it'd be:

- Scrap Brain Zone
- Hill Top Zone
- Ice Cap Zone (just make a new song)
- Death Egg Zone (would be great if crashed)

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So why do most people say Sonic 2 is the best of the Genesis games? Is it just nostalgia? Because I always found S3&K to be the best in my opinion.

S3&K = Mania > 2 > CD > 1 for me.

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Mystic Cave, Starlight, Icecap, Sandopolis

I know it's a gamble with Sega but I still really want a new game to be fully original because otherwise it's gonna lead to some uncomfortable backlash, especially here. Shitposters will run wild, even more than last time. But I guess if we absolutely had to... make it based on locales from the game gear series or even Chaotix.

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>all this autism over minor differences in romhacks and what's "best"
this is why I only play official versions
fuck dealing with all this horseshit

I just want playable Amy

If it has returning stages, I won't buy it.
I'll probably pirate it though.

>So why do most people say Sonic 2 is the best of the Genesis games?

The "Mario 1" syndrome, which with Sonic just happened to be Sonic 2. No matter how much better SMB3 or SMW were, they still sold less than SMB1 because it was the original new thing. Just like how the new Pokemon games are still under the shadow of Gen 1.

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you give me memories in the worst of ways.

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honestly you can just slot the official release into AIR and have a ball, the only problems are bugs in the porting process and no Speed-Up music effects yet. the Complete autism is because of all the improvements, fixes and tweaks it added having been around so long that they became "standard" for a lot of people

If it doesn't have Sonic 3 Complete tier extras then the widescreen is whatever to me desu.

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What if they do something like a 70:30 split? (new/original)

I've heard people call 3 "too gimmicky", which I don't get why it's a negative. I like how each level has unique objects.

It's the same argument for Spyro 1 and 2. Some people just want to platform and nothing else.

It will be better, but you'll still have people complaining that it's a rehash game. The romhack posting will also increase ten fold. I really hope it won't lead to the sonic apocalypse.

git gud

I still won't buy it. Everyone has given them the message loud and clear that they want the Mania team to make a completely original game and I'm absolutely sick of Sega shoving nostalgia down our throats.

If it's called "Mania 2" then it will have classic stages.

You can mix and match teams, use Tails' Mania flight partner controls, and unlock a Drop Dash for Sonic.

I just don't see why Sega plays it this painfully safe nowadays. I know they've been scared to be experimental since 06 and Unleashed but even fucking Colors had almost nothing but new ideas and level motifs. But for some ungodly reason after Generations they've never been able to let go since. Mania is a labor of love, but nostalgia holds back its true potential so hard.

should be all original stages with old stages just being referenced or theme/gimmicks being re-purposed for new levels which mania did a bit of

THIS
FUCK CD

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the only standard should be the original release, flaws and all
the minute I have to start deciding on a bunch of fanmade bullshit options is the minute I drop it completely

Yeah, making shout outs to levels is one thing, but we just want new themes.

Better level design, overall more solid game than any.

Mania is the best though.

Mania > 2 > 3&K > 1 > CD is the objectively correct opinion.

>no cybershell video on 3 AIR

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>Better level design
kek

>no cybershell video on mania plus

Oh are you saying you enjoyed the stop & go level design that 3K had practically making momentum a pointless feature

Idiot. How dare you respond to me

what's the point of encore mode in mania
all it does is make every level's pallet fucking ugly and forces you to play as the not fun characters aka everyone that isn't sonic

Yes, 3K's actual platforming is better than 2's braindead gotta go fast design. It's no wonder I most often see boostfags say Sonic 2 is their favorite classic game or even the only classic game they like.

Sounds like you suck ass at 3&K
Also are you implying Sonic 2 doesn't shit on you and your momentum all the time with its lazy and rushed ass level design in the last half of the game.
keking

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Google "The Sonic the Sissyhog Trilogy"

Including the quotes

>spend all the effort it takes to get the all the emeralds
>super sonic trivializes the levels and stops you from listening to the level music
>never use it and never have a reward to enjoy for my effort
someone explain the point of super sonic to me

2 is still a fun game to me, but 3&K's definitely got more meat, yeah.

If I wanted a cookie cutter platformer I would play a Mario game. People like you are why we have Lost World. Pathetic Nah I've beaten it multiple times. Also Sonic 2 never does this. Have you even played the game? Pathetic

just remember that quantity =/= quality

Good thing it has both.

>no slowdown
unfortunately it stutters a lot.

>Sonic 2 never does this
>What is Oil ocean with the retarded slides, cannons, and elevators
>Metropolis zone with the stupid enemy placement and spinning gear elevators
>Sky chase being a shitty autoscroller
>Wing fortress with the countless bottomless pits and mario tier platforming sections
Stop shitposting both are great but 3&K is better

I only had problems with stuttering when it first came out. It runs perfectly for me now. I think it might also help to redirect it to a regular 3K rom instead of the steam one not sure if that also helped.

I want returning stages from the handheld games
>Bridge Zone
>Underground Zone
>Gigalopolis Zone
>Meta Junglira Zone
>Secret Base Zone
>Music Park Zone
>Cyber Track zone
I haven't played Rush yet

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oh god you just reminded me of probably one of Mania's few low points, the unnecessary sky chase clone that wastes a level slot for Mirage Saloon. That game is great but 'nobody' was asking for that to come back. Hope they listen for the next game.
Yes I thought they made way too many unneeded changes to Hydrocity too.

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>Sonic 2 never does this
>raising water section and moving platforms in Chemical Plant
>rising columns and underwater in Aquatic Ruin
>slot machines and bumpers in Casino Night
>seesaws and moving platforms in Hill Top
>moving columns in Mystic Cave
>moving platforms and fans in Oil Ocean
>screws in Metropolis
>Sky Chase

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PATHETIC

No.
>Oil Ocean
You can bypass most of the slides if you're good.
>Metropolis/Sky Chase/Wing Fortress
Last stage in the game. Slowing it down & being more challenging for the climax is what a good game should it
Most of this can be bypassed you're just bad at the game.

Sorry that 3&K is inferior to 2 you'll get over it though

Sonic Mania GG
>Turquoise Hill
>Underground
>Jungle
>Sunset Park
>Aqua Planet
>Scrambled Egg
>Sky Base
>Atomic Destroyer
>Four new zones

>obsessed with scanlines
cringe and yikes

>turquoise hill
at least it'll probably be like the chaos remake then.

>Coping this hard
Absolutely embarrassing

>fell for the CRT meme

>No new Cybershell video ever

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>stating an objectively good case
>LOL YOU'RE COPING
okay moron

It's shit unless you can fight Big Arm as Sonic.

>no source at all
Shit thread like this
Are the reason
Good thread will be backlogged
Eat shit OP and
Die

>P-Please spoon-feed me like the retard I am
kys

>blurry ass background
the fuck
did it always look like that

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>stating an objectively good case
>NO YOUR JUST BAD AT GAMES

It's an optional feature. In theory it should make the foreground pop out, but it hardly works in practice.

that's an AIR option, increments of 25% to make the backgrounds blurry so the foreground stands out or keep it the same as the original

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The CD stages are nothing like how they were in CD.
Thank fuck too, because Stardust Speedway in CD is a hideous fucking mess in terms of actual level design. Yeah, the boss fight is memorable, but good fucking hell, the actual level blows.

It's literally just better and the advantage it gives you is massively increased in widescreen.

Marble Garden is worse than every dumb thing in S2 combined when it comes to "lol get hit outta nowhere bitch" bullshit.
but yeah, S3&K is a lot better than S2 otherwise about that

No but you are just bad at the game. Most of this can be bypassed using correct paths, besides the later levels which again are at the end of the game. In Sonic 3 platforming, pits, underwater sections, and automated sections are all forced on you.

Counter point: what is a Sonic game to you? If momentum is pointless then why not play Ristar or something? I'm not saying it's a bad game I'm just saying they dropped the ball on the entire concept.

Just found out that Sonic 3 and S&K different games.

I probably should look into playing some classic sonic again for the nearly endless roms.

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How old are you?

Post em, lads.
youtu.be/4JxmJUCGFRU

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>Objectively superior picture for the hardware the game was actually designed around
>Meme
Okay brainlet

The entire end section of S2 just kinda blows. Metropolis has obnoxious enemy placement and some annoying gimmicks and the music is annoying (in fact, the music takes a pretty sharp dive from here onwards into Death Egg). If you've got an early revision of S2, you can get stuck on the bumpers here.
The third act has particularly annoying stage design.
Sky Chase makes me want to power the system off right then and there instead of waiting for it to end. Wing Fortress has a bad habit of just flinging me into the abyss on various launchers.

jesus christ
why

soundcloud.com/leila-wilson-woofle/sets/sonic-3-alternate

H-haha
That's a pretty funny romhack. What's it called?

Sonic is a platforming series with silky smooth, pinball-like physics. Speed is a consequence of that, but the "gotta go fast" all of the time mentality is stupid.

>In Sonic 3 platforming, pits, underwater sections, and automated sections are all forced on you.
This could be said for Sonic 2 as well. Specifically the underwater sections, in Sonic 3 they're a non issue. You're usually launched right through them. In Sonic 2 they're horrible.
I'm calling your bullshit that you can avoid most of the slow parts by taking the right paths. I've played the game countless times and the things I and another user listed always come up. You can avoid some, yes, but not enough.

And no, the end of the game does not get a free pass because you say so. It's slow and unfun.

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Can I dropdash and instashield?

if you unlock it they both work at the same time, yes

I use the Alternate Marble Garden from this in AIR. So much funkier. I really like Alternate Ice Cap too but the original is too iconic. The rest are inferior to the originals.

How do you change the music anyway?

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>makes a bunch of videos to prove he's going to continue to make a bunch of videos to justify a patreon
>makes a patreon
>disappears off the face of the earth

He doesn't even tweet anymore, I wonder what happened to him.

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Look in the doc folder, it includes a pdf with a tutorial on how to do it. It's pretty simple.

He's not dead, someone said they saw him favorite something on Youtube or Twitter or something like that. I bet he suffered an even worse fate: became a normalfag with a full-time job and girlfriend/wife.

you're dumb

I'll have to look into that then

Honestly after playing the game several dozen times i've set up the whole soundtrack set just to mix it up a bit.

>became a normalfag

Yeah that seems likely. Well I hope he's doing alright for himself.

> super/hyper theme: regular level music

fuck yes

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So we all agree that 3&K is the best 2D Sonic game after Mania right? No 2fags, 3&K is better. CD autists you're weird and 1 downies please.

I need to find the twitter, dude making said "I just wanted to make something cursed i'm not attracted to this LOL"

>after Mania
It's better than Mania. But Mania 2 will probably surpass it provided it isn't held back by returning stages and nostalgia pandering again.

>2's braindead gotta go fast design
nice meme
Sonic 2 wasn't more focused on speed than Sonic 3, it was more linear with less exploration. This is a common misconception that became warped over the years, mainly from people's perception of 2 being skewed by the really fast bits Chemical Plant.

I don't get the hate for returning stages. Sonic has had so many unique cool zones that seeing them come back is great. Its not like they have the same exact layout so they are fresh and new. Just with the same zone theme.

Yeah the new layouts help, I guess people are just tired of it by this point. You've gotta remember they've been pulling this since Sonic 4 in 2010. Had this been the first time, I doubt people would have cared. But yes, I still enjoyed it despite the returning stages. I just want a fully original sequel is all.

It just takes away from the game having its own identity. I think it also doesn't help that Sonic Team has been doing the same thing too ever since 2011 and with worse results to boot.

No.
Mania > 2 > 3K >1 > CD
If you think 3K had more exploration than 2 then gg
Longer slower levels doesn't mean more exploration

I think the later is more of the problem. People are just tired of it.
If you've exausted ideas for your franchise then it's time to end the franchise.

>I've played the game countless times and the things I and another user listed always come up. You can avoid some, yes, but not enough.
>>raising water section and moving platforms in Chemical Plant
a single section of a single act that's completely avoidable if you take the upper routes

>>rising columns and underwater in Aquatic Ruin
the literal poster child of 'upper route faster, lower route slow' design that everyone attributes to classic Sonic. The rising columns are there to control the pace of the level and are placed in specific junction points that give players the opportunity to take an alternate route.

>>slot machines and bumpers in Casino Night
completely avoidable and/or designed in service of the levels pacing, where bumpers need to be used to bounce yourself forward

>>seesaws and moving platforms in Hill Top
completely skip-able albeit with prior knowledge of the levels

>If you think 3K had more exploration than 2 then gg
>Longer slower levels doesn't mean more exploration
Why do you say obviously wrong shit as if no one's gonna call you out on it immediately?
soniccenter.org/maps/s2z41.png
soniccenter.org/maps/s3z41.png

Is there a reason AIR needs to be the Steam version and not just a ROM of S3&K?

it works with just a ROM

It works with any ROM, they just say that to cover their asses.

For real? If this is true then you two anons just saved me five bucks

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not even having to platform and being forced to listen to the super music are not fun

To be fair, it is just 5 bucks for a game that's already great outside of A.I.R, but yeah.

While you are right, it's also 5 bucks for a game that I've already owned legit, and could spend on anything else on Steam

You don't specifically need to buy it on steam. It will ask you to select a rom file when it starts.
The steam version is just a good official rom to base it on. It's better than "search a bunch of rom sites for a rom with a hash of 9081723409871208397098"

Hyper Sonic's speed and double jump lets you explore pretty much wherever you want.
>being forced to listen to the super music
You're not. Look in the options.

I know they also let you turn off the supermusic in Mania with the mod loader cheat table.
Funnily enough there's a sound test cheat for it too, even the devs seem to know people hate it.

Attached: 1547485319471.gif (596x469, 3.52M)

>sound test cheat
Why the fuck did they do this?
Why the FUCK isn't it just in the options menu?
I hate having to put it in every time

I want some truly WTF zones, but these are probably the big ones.

Any of the levels from Sonic Spinball. I enjoyed the aesthetic of that game, it just needs to run faster. They had to do the entire thing in C as opposed to machine coding which fucked up all the physics. A Retro Engine do-over is just what the doctor ordered.

Knuckles Chaotix zone. Knuckles Chaotix was so close to being an interesting game, it's just the levels are barren of anything fun.

Bridge Zone

Carnival Night Zone.

I dunno, maybe it's a sign it's a consideration for the sequel?

picking the weakest stage in the game won't make your point accurate

Gay ass subtitle.
Does it have everything the Complete hack does? If it doesn't it's worthless.

Widescreen is a meme and slowdown is a meme too the original barely had any.

No, because that version is inferior to Complete.

Man, these years have spoiled us too much, haven't they

It's still just beyond stupid to me, the idea of putting a simple quality of life option behind a secret code that you have to slowly input again every time you load the game up, the least they could do is make it stay between game sessions, and make the code toggle it

Also don't forget needing a code for all 3 abilities at once unless you're playing with the mod loader.

Sonic 3's title/boss/Knuckles themes are better than &K's. If I can't at *least* use the Sonic 3 songs in the Sonic 3 half of the game, then I'm not interested.

cheats/modded versions don't count
mania is the only game that lets you disable it and like the other user mentioned you have to put it in as a cheat every time
super essentially making the game play itself is still enough to make it lame especially since you can't disable it, and the only character that even changes appearance or gets a modified/new ability is sonic

>T-That doesn't count!
That's not even Aquatic Ruin retard.

Don't bother touching the fucking Genesis stages, I don't want those.
Give me new takes on Chaotix levels, with new gimmicks designed from scratch, give me reimaginings of game gear levels from spin-offs and main releases on game gear.

But dear god, don't make me play through the Genesis levels again. I've played those enough, i've played mods of those levels in Mania, i've played the remastered Taxman versions of those levels, I don't fucking need the Genesis levels anymore dammit.

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You can play Complete on a Genesis.

>remastered OST
Ewwwwww

Like this?

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there's no reason to ever need or want that
the #
peel out is redundant and sucks/feels like shit to use and the shield is worthless
the drop dash is the only actually good and fun ability any character in a sonic game has ever had

Alright, is there an option to play the tracks on a per-zone basis too? If so, I'll cave and download i right now.

>people bitch for years about no whitehead remake of Sonic 3
>we finally get the closest thing to it
>fuck that, back to 3 complete
Somehow I predicted this long ago. We don't deserve anything.

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Shut up already.
Nobody cares about the pleb-tier "opinion" of a retard that sucks at Sonic.

Go back to playing Sonic Rush retarded zoomer.

It's optional, you can turn off the remasters.

Bad ROM?

Attached: air.png (1195x673, 39K)

That's pretty much the extent of the audio options.

>>remastered OST
>Ewwwwww
It's literally only improving the audio quality. The songs aren't different in any way.
youtube.com/watch?v=xiU3pvhXQ7M

There's a way to mod your own music into the game. Check the pdf manual. I haven't messed with it, but you can probably accomplish what you want that way.

I'll check it out anyways. Fuck you, and thanks for the insight.

yes

This. Do people actually think the Taxman remaster would have included all the features of 3Complete? Of course it wouldn't have.

Switch to software rendering mode.

Lmaoooooo 2 isn't even as good as 1.

Objective list:
3K > 1 > 2 > CD > Advance 1 > Mania

Is there a reliable way to find a better one, or should I just cave and buy it off Steam?

Mania that low? hmm

>paying for roms

I got a Genesis fullset and that S3&K rom works fine.

I was wondering about that. I thought they would be remixes, I was confused why it sounded the same.

Unpopular opinion : I love frame slow-down.
It felt like bullet-time when things got more tense, but before The Matrix came out and bullet-time was even a thing.
Almost like you were seeing time move with sonic's reflexes, where everything is just slowed down a bit.

Only zoomers hate frame slowdown.

I mean, I could live with it too. I just like the little changes is all.
You don't have to call everything zoomer, my man.

Lava Reef Zone Act 2 Music > Ice Cap Zone Act 1 Music

youtube.com/watch?v=9utFNqhJUgY

youtube.com/watch?v=hYxlqTpZ-24

>it works
Why isn't this set to true by default?
Is it supposed to be a casual filter?

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>Sonic 3 & Knuckles E-Celeb Zoomer Youtuber Edition
No thanks.

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yikes

What gpu do you have? I'm stuck with an integrated one, dedicated ones probably don't need software mode.

That change was shit.
It made sense in CD where the focus was exploration and shit but it feels off in the regular games.

holy buzzword, man

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Intel 4000

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Jesus, at least get a Ryzen 3 2200G

>makes the music soulless
no thanks

soundcloud.com/hunty/lava-reef-act-2-hidden-palace-saturn-style?in=hunty/sets/super-sega-saturn-style-sonic

The remix Hunter Bridges made is godlike. I like it better than Tee Lopes' version in Mania.

I wouldn't be in this position if I had any other choice, user

haha what a same

really nigga

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>also mania kinda sucked
TSSZNews' BlazeHedgehog nailed a lot of my problems with Mania in his review videos.
youtube.com/watch?v=v3bku_9KFew
youtube.com/watch?v=Fs4UFZZyCdA

Mania was a big disappointment.
Level design was downright fangamey and it just felt so tiring to play after a while.

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But an actual fangame had even better level design

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You and him must have not played many fangames then because it is definitely better designed than the vast majority of 2d Sonic fangames put out over all the years and SAGE booths. The only thing I will agree that feels blatantly fangamey are the bosses. A lot of them take too long and don't feel much like Sonic bosses (like 3K bosses for example, most of which can be defeated very quickly if you know what you're doing)

>remove the compression from the voice clips and make it sound jarringly out of place with the rest of the game and sound effects
it's the literal definition of soulless you fuck
you're compromising the overall aesthetic and cohesiveness of the game for """quality""" and """cleanliness"""

I'm sorry but I just don't see it, and I've tried to enjoy that game plenty

Nice bait, 8/10

fine, jeez

I thought Before was better.

>but for me it's the Flying Battery stage order restoration Sonic 3C does.
Gayest fucking shit ever.
The fact that Tiddles still has't updated the rom for Ice Cap to have daytime colors by default still bothers me to this day.

You still have to go and customize the rom to your liking in the website and nobody but us autists know that much about it so S3C is so hard to recommend to first time players it pisses me off.

Also the fact that we don't have the option to choose the S3&K title screen logo pisses me off too. Fucking Tiddles is so autistic over the title Sonic 3 he never gave us an option.

But oh well, you win some you lose some.

>mushroom hill renamed to mushroom valley
This is fucking gay and if you didn't change it back to Mushroom Hill via the customizer in the website you're gay and a zoomer.

>stage icons are related to specific zone
absolute sacrilege
you're a retard if you didn't change this back

>that new cutscene between launch base and mushroom hill that uses elements from S&K's title screen
This is the only big one.

I'm in the middle of a storm so watching the videos is uncertain right now, but honestly Mania's level design was pretty alright to me. There weren't many moments forcing you to stay waiting, and there were plenty of smooth paths and speed as a reward, while having spots and circumvention for the real obstacles and the like. It wasn't perfect, but it was fun, and I can enjoy it more consistently than 2 or 3&K in level design, which is hilarious given how many people I sew bitching about it being "too hard".

The real problem is one that Taxman and the team still haven't learned from their Sonic 2 Hidden Palace Zone fight: boss fights that are less about skill and more about waiting for the opportunity to attack, as well as fights that are just kind of mindless regardless of what attacks the boss throws out.

This
Changing it back to Valley because it was the "original" title is retarded. Original doesn't equal better, they changed it to Hill before release for a reason; it sounds a whole lot better.

AIR has FBZ after CNZ or an option to change it like S3C?

I don't really have much to say against this because I'm just too lazy right now. But it's just kinda disheartening that people didn't used to say this about the game but now I see people post stuff like this almost all the time, there was once a time when I was certain people mostly didn't care about flaws like this. Oh well I guess.

Flying Battery belongs after Mushroom Hill you swines. Putting it after Carnival Night throws off the difficulty curve of the game.

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Honeymoon phase is over.

Honestly S3 as a whole is too easy until the Launch Base, and even that's only really difficult if you have to deal with Big Arm, are on the original S3 layout, or are playing as Knuckles in general since his tweaked bosses and gimped jump height bite him in the ass.

Exactly. S3 is a slow rise in difficulty until Launch Base's spike. Then the S&K half gives you a break by dropping the difficulty in Mushroom Hill before ramping it back up in Flying Battery and getting even more difficult than S3 up until the Death Egg. Flying Battery in the S3 half adds an unnecessary spike in the middle of this beautiful curve.

I also don't get people who constantly say this. I've played the game since launch and yes while I have picked up on a few problems since then, Me and my other friends who hyped it up still haven't really changed our thoughts on it too much. Maybe it's just me but I swear some people actively do this just to be different and just blame it on a honeymoon phase. but again, that's just me. Mania may not be perfect, far from it. But I honestly do feel like people kinda over-exaggerate the problems these days. Not to say I wouldn't want a sequel to address things, but still.... you know?

Attached: 1547061322164.gif (400x300, 1.99M)

mania has a lot of parts that annoying play itself, think of all the fucking bumpers and pointless double poles in titanic monarch or any of the cd levels with those stupid ass tubes that accelerate you to full speed instantly and that you can't stop in

>making the music sound as it was intended is """"compromising the overall aesthetic and cohesiveness""""
retard

explain to me how removing the compression and making it sound out of place with everything else is more """intended""" than the original fucking release
this is why I hate you modding autists

>titanic monarch poles
probably just to be a mushroom hill reference.
>bumpers
Metropolis had plenty of those too?
>CD tubes
that's just stardust speedway for you, what do you want them to do?
I kinda see what you're getting at but these things just felt normal to me with how much I've played the old ones.

I'd say FB isn't that hard either, but then most of S3&K up until Sandopolis doesn't give me trouble anymore so i'm pretty biased.

As a kid, I could beat Sonic 3 easily but I never got past Flying Battery whenever I rented the S&K cart.

>they compressed the audio on purpose and not because of hardware limitations
retard

>tfw probably the only one who never had a problem relating to stage length or the bosses
Well... at least he still called it really good I guess.

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In an effort to improve the game, AIR makes "time saving" decision such as increasing the pushing speed of the stones in Sandopolis and making the elevators faster in Death Egg. But what the creator isn't aware is that these "improvements" have consequences. For example, Death Egg's gravity boss is much easier due to faster elevators.

The author should leave his changes as fucking options because he clearly has no idea how these could change the game.

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>one of the shittier bosses in the game is over faster
Sounds like an improvement to me desu

>complains the drop dash is unintuitive
I guess all of the character abilities are too.

>playing non canonical fan games

You seem really bothered about this. How else does this damage the game?

try again fuckstain

shit this is pretty fucking good
thanks champ

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This thread is probably gonna die soon so I'll just leave my two cents on this.
Yes, Mania has problems, but let's be fair, every sonic game does. And as for why Plus came off as so rushed too? Honestly willing to believe that's Sega's fault more than the developers', they already made the devs rush the initial mania out just so it could act as a Forces tie in, which is why they had to fix problems as simple as a super button in a post launch patch.
Even as much as I love the game I'll admit it has issues too, the sky chase clone sucks and they kinda made Hydrocity worse than the original. But... that doesn't make the game that much less good to me. I know Mania having problems is normal and fine because these are all things that can be addressed in a follow up, you know... like the old sonic games. I can't force people to enjoy something they simply cannot, but in all fairness, you can't exactly tell who means what they say on Yea Forums sometimes. But even still, as he even goes on to say in the video, the game is still quite good despite these flaws and is still better than any of Sonic Team's attempts at 2D in the past number of years. Mania may be flawed, but so are many games we love. 1/2

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>But what the creator isn't aware is that these "improvements" have consequences. For example, Death Egg's gravity boss is much easier due to faster elevators.
>still using the gravity elevators to attack instead of sitting on the ceiling and spindashing the droids as soon as the boss drops them.

>The author should leave his changes as fucking options because he clearly has no idea how these could change the game.
shut up contrarian there's LITERALLY no downside to cutting down on pointless time wasters.

Mania was a flawed treat for the fans and it was worth the celebration we had before it came out, it left memories I will always cherish, whether it was finally playing the game on launch day after months or waiting, or the months worth of pre-release hype threads here, we just had a lot of fun and that's what really mattered to me. I asked for a Sonic game with passion and I got one, even if it wasn't perfect and that's all that mattered to me. I hope a Mania 2 can be twice as awesome, because we're off to at least a good start Maybe they will give us all these changes like a more forgiving save system, an easy mode, maybe even a tutorial mode. We can only hope, cause I only want things to get better too. I just don't think people should be put down for liking something flawed either, we just wanna have a good old time. 2/2

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Jesus christ this isn't even a review. He talks about how he knows fangames well from personal experience, talks about all the fanservice while also being sick of Green Hill, mentions the Drop Dash and then basically spends most of the first video bitching about how everything is too long and then turning around and going "oh yeah by the way the game's still great"

>tutorial mode
I think that would help newcomers to the series not only learn the basics, but all the neat little physics tricks you can do. But what if alongside that we got a big playground level with which to test out those tricks?

Attached: uberrobo.png (441x373, 248K)

No, it's just you have to play it a certain way to get some kind of enjoyment.

Being long is not even an issue or a design flaw. Mania is nearly flawless, people are trying really hard to generate controversy and get some easy clicks.

>Unleashed was just seen as a flawed, okay at best game by most fans up until the past couple years where tons of people started openly viewing it as "the last great Sonic game" or whatever.
Nobody did.
It's just faggot zoomers whose first sonic game were Unleashed that think that.

all this shit is too vague
someone give me specific examples from specific sections of specific levels in mania that make it have "good level design" compared to 1 2 or 3

Nearly is the key word here. It still has problems but that's not the end of the world. Even the other most beloved Sonic games have issues. It's like the saying goes, there's always room for improvement.

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>Honestly Taxman made all the old games better.
He really didn't.
Giving them widescreen doesn't make them better. In fact sometimes they're worse(fuck what he did to Sonic CD's soundtrack with those cancerous beta loops and compressed music and fuck him for not giving us 4:3 optional cutscenes instead of cropped bullshit and fuck Sega for still not updating it with the vocal songs after they got the rights back in 2012)

They're high quality ports but not really improvements.

huh... I actually wasn't expecting to hear someone mention the beta loops thing again, I remember hearing a post about this months ago.

>The music is second to none in the entire series
3K is on par with it and probably even better because of the bigger quantity.

fpbp

>Unless you think the designers are god.
>Implying Hirokazu Yasuhara isn't God.
Pfft

>beta loops

Can you elaborate?

>In fact sometimes they're worse
Please elaborate

Attached: godfuckingdamnit.jpg (1172x896, 242K)

I wanted a new sprite.
Yeah the color sucks dick...looks like playing the megadrive with SECAM cables.

Zoomers away. Scho, off to fortnite

>60fps
If he ported it then why even limit the framerate?
Or does he just suck at coding?

>Marble Garden is worse than every dumb thing in S2 combined when it comes to "lol get hit outta nowhere bitch" bullshit.
git gud

>improved physics of the retro engine
You can't even do that instant spindash when you land off of a glide with Knuckles.

Building the retro engine from the Sonic 2 physics engine is fucking gay.
3K's physics are vastly superior.

How about you stop sucking at the game?

No offense but... you're probably the first person this whole year who I've heard complain about that. I honestly forgot it was even a thing till you mentioned it. I mean, I guess it would be nice to fix but... I never cared to be honest.

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>Emulator screenshot
Kys

Blue streak, speeds by

Pascal the dog is here.

youtu.be/qb45pLOueOE

>In Sonic 3 platforming, pits, underwater sections, and automated sections are all forced on you
They're not if you don't suck at the game.
But this variety is what makes Sonic 3K the best game of all time.

This lack of variety is what makes Sonic 2 only a good game at best and this lack of variety + much longer levels is what makes Mania a chore to play(at least Sonic 2 didn't have this problem)

I'm retarded, whats wrong with 3 Pack (3 pack) that came out in 2000 with
Sonic CD on one CD
Sonic R on one CD
Sonic the Hedgehog 3, Sonic & Knuckles, and Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles?

....other than it doesn't work on anything past Vista.

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>Not even allowing you to use the Sonic 3 music for the Sonic 3 zones and the S&K music for the S&K ones
Nope. I cannot go back after 3C's Pick by Zone/Game option.

That soundtrack is too glorious not to be heard in its entirety.

>Not using the S3 themes for the S3 zones and the S&K themes for the S&K themes for the S&K zones
Heresy.

Nah. I loved the game when it first came out, but I played through the game so many times at this point that I've grown tired of it.

Sounds fucking horrible.
The remaster is the default isn't it? Now plenty of zoomers will hear this garbage when they play it.

Fuck sake, in 2019 we should have a glorious official Sega port with autistic-tier customization and options for original Micheal Jackson demo tape music.
JUST

Sonic CD PC had some fucked up graphics and physics, which carried over to the Gems Collection version and didn't help the broad view of the game; it got superceded by the Taxman port entirely. Sonic R on PC lost some of the graphical effects like environmental transparency (mostly for the final track) as well as some sound issues, though a mod loader and modern patch can fix most of the problems and compatibility. S&K Collection was cool for what it was, but the sound is awful, mods are needed in the first place to replace the tinny MIDI, and while things like the Drop Dash got modded in as well, it's otherwise a straight port with some music changes and that's it; both Sonic 3 Complete and Angel Island Revisited are better versions of the same game.

Nobody wanted a taxman remake of 3 but zoomers. Those same zoomers were ok with replacing the Michael Jackson music too btw fuck them.

Music sounds liek shit and is fucked up compared to genesis soundchip
eat shit

No, another dumb "PC MASTER RACE" """feature""" to make the game look fucking worse.

I guess sonic fans from the 90s must be zoomers then too

>Composite filter
disgusting

@461238927
You have to go back
spinball is a great game and has really cool visual themes.

>You can play Complete on a Genesis.
how

Play Mario. They’re real good

>You and him must have not played many fangames then because it is definitely better designed than the vast majority of 2d Sonic fangames
It's better designed than all of them combined.
It's still not good enough compared to the originals and it just goes way too far.

>I never cared to be honest.
Fucking casuals.

I literally just said I'd be ok if it was fixed anyway, keep your autism to a minimum.

Repro catridge or flash cart

>man who doesn't play platformers doesn't like platformers
damn... we've been bee tee eff oh I guess

I like Sonic CD. It's level design being a mess doesn't frustrate me, but entertains me. I unironically like Wacky Workbench because I find enjoyment in bouncing from the ground all the way up to the ceiling. It's ridiculous and funny.

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It's just boring. The levels are too long, there's too many pointless running sections where it feels like I'm not playing the game.
The level design lacks variety because the game as all fangames was designed in a homogenuous way in order to please the whiny brats who complain about "slow zones" like Marble, Labyrinth, Marble Garden, Sandopolis etc.
It suffers from Advance 2 syndrome like all fangames do.

As for the bosses they suffer from Advance 3 syndrome.
The bosses in Sonic games should be cheesefests except for the final boss(to some extent)

>But it's just kinda disheartening that people didn't used to say this about the game but now I see people post stuff like this almost all the time, there was once a time when I was certain people mostly didn't care about flaws like this.
I did.
I was saying this for a long time.

But I think it took a few playthroughs to see the flaws for most people.

He said that the game doesn't teach you anything about it. He's right about that.

My problem with the Drop Dash is that the whole game is clearly designed around it.
It makes the game feel shallow.

Well, at least some other people can still have fun with it despite the flaws like It's something at least.

>every sonic game does.
Except for 3K

But this has nothing to do with the game having problems.
The game is just poorly thought out on a fundamental level despite the quality in it.

It's really a badly made game with tons of quality in it, which is weird and pretty rare.

It can still get better tho, like the video said

>Being long is not even an issue or a design flaw.
What is pacing?
Sorry but it's a critical flaw. Especially when it comes to a Sonic game which creates a cognitive dissonance considering how long these stages take to complete.

It betrays the old school design that it claims to revere.

To be fair, Plus is also rushed because they got an entirely different group of like, 4-5 guys to work on it. I think Taxman was still involved, but Stealth wasn't, and it was a skeleton crew doing their own separate work, which is why Mighty and Ray might seem to clash with the other characters and why Encore Mode was so half-baked when they didn't even have the original level designer on-board. It's also why Hunter was brought in for the new tracks rather than Tee again.

Would you say that Sonic 3 & Knuckles is better than Sonic 2?

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I guess I must be the really odd weirdo from a bizarro world then because I never had a problem with the stage length, even on launch day
And yeah, I've played 3&K for years.

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Sonic 3 on Windows 95 had slowdown? I genuinely don't remember

Mania saved Sonic. It proves that Sonic games can be good.

Sonic 2 is more about being on a constant move, while 3&K is more about exploration and platforming.

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They used the unused loops from one of the Sonic CD beta versions which only existed in a lower quality(lower bitrate) version, so we don't get the highest quality sound in the port compared to the original Sega CD version(for the Japanese soundtrack at least)

There's other issues such as the boss patterns being changed for 16:9 in Sonic 1, 2 and CD and I don't like that we never got options to play in 4:3 except for Sonic CD.

I know there's some few differences physics-wise that some people have pointed out here and there but I'm not as hardcore as those people so I didn't really notice them myself.

Also Sonic 1 and 2 Mobile Ports have no option for the original soundtracks only the remastered ones.
I swear to god it sounds very different. Taxman said that it's the same as the original version just cleaned up but I know that whoever did that messed with the bass and treble as well as with the sample rate(Genesis output at 53khz) and it's really hard to believe that there was that much detail in the original genesis music that got muddled by the hardware back in the day.

Don't get me wrong, it doesn't sound bad. In fact it even sounds very interesting/fascinating to me but it blows that we don't have the original soundtracks(captured from the highest quality Mega Drive Model 1) as an option.

Mania zoomies everyone.

Taxman's Sonic CD's physics are about as good as the Gems Collection.
It's not a perfect recreation of the original either.

...

It doesn't work because Taxman's engine is based off of the Sonic 2 engine.

That was already proven 5 and 7 years before mania released

Taxman's physics weren't trying to recreate the original, but "fix them", which a lot of people accept as the okay option given that CD was basically a really fucked up Sonic 1 with turbo jank, an early Spin Dash, and a Peel-Out on top.

It's not that it isn't perfect, god knows Sonic 2 isn't. But I can go back and play that any time.

With Mania I get exhausted after a while and don't feel like going back to it after that.

I just don't see how it can't be altered code wise, even Sonic CD feels slightly different compared to the later retro engine stuff

I know, but I still say it's never too late to get better.

Oh yeah. There's nothing stopping the team from improving in a future game(if Sega lets them) though I'm not gonna get my hopes up.

Sonic level design is incredibly tough to get right. I've never played a single fangame that ever felt like the classics.
It took Taxman and the community at large decades to get the physics right so who knows if they'll ever get the other elements of the classic games(like the level design, art consistency/quality, creativity, music etc.) right in our lifetimes.
The classics were just too damn insane.

Mania has the best level design since Advance 1. I still feel Advance 1 had better level design..at least the first 3-4 zones before it became too "Dimpsy" with stupid pitfalls.
Like I'll play Casino Paradise over Studiopolis anyday.

Mania Team needs to take a page off of Sonic 1 when it comes to level design. There needs to be more of an emphasis on challenging the player with obstacles/traps rather than just giving you huge empty terrain to run around in like in some of the levels of Sonic CD(in CD it worked because that game revolved around finding robot generators) or Sonic 2 and most importantly bigger is not always better, they need to think about balance.

Most importantly, they need to get rid of the cancerous mindset of pleasing drooling idiots who think that zones like Labyrinth, Marble, Marble Garden, Carnival Night, Sandopolis etc. are bad zones.
Variety in terms of structure and feel is one of the best parts of the classic games.

Maybe it's not better than Sonic 3, but it'll always be something special to me at the very least. Mania was the first time I enjoyed a sonic game in years. But you do have good ideas regardless, and to be fair, the lack of variety may have also been because of the reused levels thing. I feel they could do something better if we got a fully new game. Basically what I'm saying is, I'm just happy for what we 'did' get, cause I needed something like Mania after the gap of shit from 2013-2017, that nearly made me give up, but Mania kept me going so that's probably why it means a lot to me, it reminded me of why I loved Sonic. The most I can do is look towards the future and just hope for the best, Sega's still got a keeper of a team on their hands.

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I agree. You need an IQ over 100 to enjoy Sonic CD

Your mind must be durable as hell then.
I can't play a 2D platformer for hours on end.

Anything more than 3K length is just pure hell.
Heck sometimes I stopped playing 3K halfway through because even 3K borders a bit on that territory and 3K is my favorite game of all time.

Before you bring up Mario World...that's completely different.
Mario has a world map and most of the levels are pretty short so it's very pick-up and play.

I wouldn't want Sonic to go that route so I'd prefer a game that was not as long and more balanced.

>Taxman's physics weren't trying to recreate the original, but "fix them"
Yeah no.

>Maybe it's not better than Sonic 3
The problem is that it isn't even as good as Advance 1.

I never hoped for it to be better than 3K. That game is something else and it would be unfair to the team to expect that.
But I at least expected it to be as good as Sonic 1 and 2...but that didn't happen.
Maybe I was underestimating Sonic 1 and 2 all this time...I dunno.

I don't even know that either, once I found good routes, stages felt normal.

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I guess we just have drastically different opinions then, but I suppose we're only human

I did that too.
Problem is still there, too many of the zones play the same and most of the zones being rehashed as well as most bosses taking forever to beat(most of them don't allow you to cheese them) doesn't help either.

Look at Sonic 1
First you have GHZ which is a speedy open level
Then you have Marble which is more of an isolated heavy platforming level
Then you have Spring Yard which is another speedy level with a bit more emphasis on platforming
Then you have Labyrinth which is a slow water level
Then Star Light which is a fast level
And then you have Scrap Brain

2 focuses mostly on speed but the levels are short enough to where they don't wear out their welcomes most of the time.

3K
You have Angel Island which is a fairly fast level
You have Hydrocity which act 1 has a decent pace and act 2 is Chemical Plant water edition
Then you have Marble Garden which is a pretty speedy open level with more focus on exploration and avoiding obstacles/traps
Then you have Carnival Night which is a kinda slower level than Marble Garden but it's still exploratory but feels somewhat more isolated and dense
Then you have Ice Cap which is a very straightforward fast level

In these games you never have the time to be bored because it feels like you're constantly playing something fresh and new.
The order being so rollercoaster-y is good at keeping the player's attention.

With a game like Sonic you want to make the player feel like they're not playing the same shit all the time.
You want that constant change almost every zone.

I remember some people saying that Sonic 1 would have been better if the order was this:
Green Hill
Spring Yard
Star Light
Marble
Labyrinth
Scrap Brain

This is the traditional logic of from easiest to hardest.
I completely disagree with this, Sonic 1 would have been a complete disaster if it had that order. It would feel like the latter half is a completely different game.

As someone else who also really loved Mania, gotta say... the later half of this thread sure has done a number on my confidence or spirits

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goodnight

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>4'55"90 for Titanic Monarch Zone Act 2
What the fuck