Map thinks that chaingunner, archviles and monster closets are a substitute for good level design

*unzips dick*

You eating this would entertain me.

Oh gosh...I don't know if I can it's soooo BIG! I've never done anything like this before...

>map is so vast and full of enemies its actually impossible to kill them all without running out of ammo
>There's like 3+ cyberdemons

Can't remember where I got it but I think it was one of those semi-official releases. It was some bullshit.

>map has an semi-open area filled with toxic sludge
>doom senses are tingling, telling me shit is gonna pour out of the waste, like shredder rising from the ooze
>never happens
>open the door to leave, that triggers the podiums rising up spewing forth hit scanners and whatever the fuck else
>switch to raise the bars behind the door are on the other side of the room
>fight my way back, hit the switch
>archvilles spew out of closets
I'm gonna pay that mapper 100 bucks to fuck off.

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>level with tiny platforms over ooze, full of sergeants and barons, no items or health, no idea where you're supposed to go, critical doors look like secret areas, le epic cyberdemon at the end
oops that described two TFC maps, episode "4" is kusoge and noncanon

Since we're not in /vr/ the audience here is a bit different, I'll ask.

What are some things you have *liked* in Doom maps? Like stuff that get's done and you think "Yeah this guy is clued in".

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Actually follows romero's rules for map design.

Well, we already gathered *that*

In case of very specific things:
>Puts in the effort to have a thematic tie in for their entire wad from map to map
Too many map packs are just over the shop aesthetically, so one that puts effort into it usually also knows good general map layout.

>monster closet opens/room encounter
>it's not just a horde of nothing but one type of enemy, but a nice mix of enemy types
it's so fucking simple yet so many people get it wrong.

Plutonia actually is the best Doom though.

hi, guy who just played through plutonia twice here.

Your opinion is shit.

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I liked the stairs, elevators, acid floors, light and darkness play, narrow walkways, jump puzzles, traps, you know, all the stuff that wolf3d didn't have that was groundbreaking at the time.
Doom maps are nothing special today.

>that's so doomer that complains about level design but doesn't actually know what good level design is and certainly doesn't make any good map themselves

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>ceiling has neat design on it
i don't know why i love these so much. in general though i think i like the more medieval looking areas rather than the sci fi stuff

Duke 3D is better

that causes too much monster infighting. You can just circle around the monster closet and watch them all kill eachother

Go play Plutonia 2, big boy

>Doom
>Good maps

Why bump with bait?
Just go to /vr/ if the thread dying is really a concern

>game/map/wad doesnt follow Romero's 8 Laws of Level Design

It's more interesting to fight couple enemies with limited resources than spam unlimited ammo at a horde.

It's called subverting expectations

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>We have to accept as mappers, that people who use BD exclusively are a thing.
Honestly, I've found myself playing an awful lot of Project Brutality lately. Partly because I've become addicted to how good the quad shotgun feels. Few things give me an erection like seeing it literally blast a hole straight through a Mancubus with one shot.

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Even Romero doesn't fallow Romero's "laws".

>map has secrets that require archvile launching to reach
>map has secrets that are pixel hunting
>map has secrets that are harder to find than breaking boundaries

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>demonic basedface on gun
Epicool.

>Broke: Getting a key triggers enemies to teleport in around you.
>Woke: Getting a key triggers enemies to teleport into the rooms between you and the door so you get to fight your way through them from the other direction.
It's honestly just more fun than a cheap trap.

>not teleporting player to a room with traps and custom enemies

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>don't have enough ammo to kill them all so you have to bait the monsters into the traps

Does multiple closets each filled with a different type of enemy work? Would make it harder to cause infighting immediately.

What's the point of Project Brutality? Or others mods based on BD

I have a soft spot for vanilla-compatible mapping tricks like crystal sectors and instant lifts.

To make it less shit?

Main appeal to PB is that there is a metric fuckton more shit. Twenty six weapons with the chance of finding upgrades like a grenade launcher for the assault rifle, incendiary rounds for the shotgun or quad barrels for the super shotgun and you can scavenge archvile and mancubus weapons, each monster has two or three harder variants that start showing up as you progress through the game (with zombies having like eighteen in total), imps can crawl on ceilings and demons can drop powerups on occasion (most commonly dropping a pickup that gives a point of armor).

A lot of the game is randomized - like what enemies you fight (since variant replacement is random) or what weapons or upgrades you find. Rocket launchers for example can potentially be replaced by a grenade launcher that can swap between five different types (but you're always going to use incendiary or acid rounds) or the Excavator (which has two fire modes, a shitty tunneler rocket or a more useful standard rocket that stops and dives down if you hit alt fire while it's in motion, real useful for hitting things behind walls). All in all it brings a lot of variety to the gameplay that just isn't there in vanilla.

I felt Japanese Community Map Pack like fresh air. It has some clever levels and while it's a mixed bag, I'd recommend give it a try.

Like when he remade Phobos Anomaly?

That sounds like a lot. Aren’t the comic Doomguy lines in there too?

That why I prefer weapon mods.

Hello?

>group modders serious wad
>spent years perfecting their vision
>always 2x archviles at the back
>always a dozen chaingunners at the end of a massive fucking room
>entire map revolves around super shotgun/BFG ammo juggling

Why does the doom community think its some great creative hub? Every "serious" wad is the fucking same bullshit. There are more weapons in the game than SSG/BFG