MMO

What's the best MMO for role playing?

none of them, because they are all awful.

Project Ascension
FFXI Eden
ESO if you are a retailfag
Those ar ethe only good choices.

Archage?

MMO's are archaic now. In the early 2000s it was new and cool to see thousands of people online in a single game but thats not really novel anymore and games have become streamlined enough where you can drop in and out of an online game with no worries but MMOs are a fucking commitment and like a job almost. MMOs served their purpose but beyond nostalgia bait they dont really serve a purpose any more.

For lore type stuff ESO in riften
For erp filled with trannies trying to get you to buy them stuff BDO with the nude mod.

Looks more like BDO which is a shame because BDO has such a good character creator but literally everything else is pure garbage. op's pic looks so good for example

>tfw even Guild Wars 2 went down the same path except instead of following the WoW-clone formula, they made it even worse with level scaling out the ass and no real quests outside of the renown hearts and story missions.

>BDO has such a good character creator
sure if you're into plastic gooks

Runescape

Needs telepathy to innovate the genre.

BDOs worker system and life skills system was pretty neat. The combat was a lot more fun than the same old tab target too but everything is so p2w and grindy rng it's not even worth it.
It's too bad koreans made it. It might be fun.

Before you were able to be creative with strategies for boss fights, now all the fights are scripted so that there's only ONE way to beat it.

I’ll take plastic gooks any over goblin look from ESO.

Mobile games.

When people will admit WoW is not the peak of the genre and realize there is so much more to it, we can have a good game. The biggest problem is always that those who copy WoW don't copy the mindset which made vanilla a good yet heavily flawed game. It doesn't help either that currently every apolitical person jumped on either left or right too, and also we have this "professional" no fun allowed aura too, where it was clear as fuck back then that a fuckton of vanilla devs were former EQ players using bad words too. There is a huge gap between the devs and the players too and the devs, and in a lot of cases the devs are really not the qualified people for the job. In most cases if you have a problem you don't even connect to the staff but a bot. People rather use matchmaking than manual search for players, there are lootboxes and gachashit etc. There is just so many things gone wrong that the only solution is to delete everything and make something completely new from nothing. And this makes you wonder: does all of this effort even worth? As you can see, there is just so many of these errors existing in this genre, and people would need to address and fix them one by one. First of all devs even don't address them, hell they don't even acknowledge it. Especially not since WoW still makes money, and that means the genre can't change.
A complete mentality switch in the playerbase, and even bigger on the developer site is needed, which is simply impossible in the current times.

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BDO appears to have a good character creation only on the surface. By the end of the day, every character is nearly sameface to every other player of the same class. They don't even add real new hairstyles. Just the occasional cash shop headgear.

All the WoW's copy boogieman aside, it's because it's too risky to make one + you fags would still complain and not play it anyway.

You are actually fucking delusional if you think wow classic is gonna last two months let alone have any lasting impact on the market. It's an experiment to placate the retards who don't know what they're asking for.

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It's only too risky because everyone thinks they have to make WoW.

WoW singlehandedly killed the MMO genre, vanilla is no exception. WoW made it so that MMOS going forward were all about presentation and style over substance with shallow gameplay.

>Western mmo players are very willing to throw money at a good mmorpg
It's not that simple. Imagine someone makes your PERFECT MMO™ today, how would you monetize it to make up for the production costs + future content?

>1. Monthly payment
What you'd consider your perfect MMO, others wouldn't. We are dealing with a niche market at best, so either the fee would be too high for most people or you'd have to have a large population (which is unlikely as we stated that it's a niche market)
>2. B2P
Could work but it wouldn't cover the costs unless you sold thousands of units. Again, niche market, so it's unlikely.
>3. F2P
That would be the "best" way to attract costumers but you can already imagine how they'd monetize it + it would be infested with bots

As for your PERFECT MMO™, there's a reason as to why developers follow WoW's formula: they have to appeal to the broadest audience possible for the monetization purpose. That's why your perfect mmo won't exist unless it's a small-niche one. Now ask yourself, would you really play a MMO with a small population where the company don't have the funds to release enough or quality content because they have no money? Probably just for a while before you get bored and hop to something else, and that's where we are

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f2p with cosmetic cash shop

quality game design < predictably profitable game design
You need big funding to make big projects like an MMO. People will cite every dumb reason they can think of but this is the real truth. The second most important truth is that most of us are less skewed equivalents of idiot savants. Video games are an aptitude fallacy you need strong logic as a gateway to create something inherently artistic. People who can develop games=/=good game designers. Working around this requires the pointed coordination of hundreds of people under one gifted artists vision. Better hope you picked the right artist

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Why is there no real role-playing in role-playing games? Like, you play the game with someone while acting like it's real, and discuss the events and lore and shit.

People only rp for virtual sex, or don't give a fuck about the plot and just tell about their shitty personal lives to strangers.

thoughts on Ashes of Creation?

imo it's doomed to fail because of it's shit artstyle and unreal engine

Runescape was made by 2 guys in their parents house and is still popular today pretty much purely based on its gameplay.

I agree 100% lmao if the art style isnt attractive I dont give a single fuck about it just look at motherfucking Outward what a pile of dogshit even if the game was good (which it isnt) im never trying it because of how ugly it is

people roleplay with eachother and most mmos have had dedicated roleplaying servers

>niche market
There are millions of people playing MMOs. Even mediocre ones like ESO have a ton of players and they're making retarded amounts of money. Enough for a Superbowl commercial at least.

F2P is doomed to failure. If a game changes into F2P you already know it struggles with being sub based. IF people are not willing to pay sub money that means your game is simply not good enough. Its a model is used as a last straw to draw in a wave of newcomers, where most of them will definitely leave after a couple of months. The content is often way too monotone and grindy up to the point where its unenjoyable. Not to mention this model attracts the absolute worst type of players too. Its also where cash shop items take over too. The quality of these games are simply bad, and its played by shit players whose opinions have absolutely zero value.

is Phantasy STar Universe Clementine online yet?

people are genuinely using VPNs and buying korean ssn activated accounts to play MMOs over there. This is an incredibly dedicated group of players who are willing to pay to play and support a good game. Furthermore, the MMO community is huge, not a niche market at all.

Are you retarded, almost every mmorpg we have now would not of been made if not for wow.

ff14

>every current mmo is greatly flawed in some way
No MMO was/is perfect.
Like a life partner, you have to look past some flaws.
Except Bless Online, that shit is a giant dumpster fire.

Almost every mmorpg we have now is shit.

You are retarded. There was a real mmo market before wow with many different titles. After wow everyone just made wow clones hoping to get a share of the pie.

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I reckon it's because the actual underlying gameplay of MMORPGs is flawed and thus MMORPGs have always been shit.
>Grinding
>Repetitive Fetch Quests
>Online (so having to cater for those cunts with 56K dialup modems)
>Dumbing down of gameplay to appeal to the masses
>Balancing so people don't Reeeee when there's a ridiculously OP class that can smash yours up
>Other players, esp. autistic faggots
>Always the status quo (like I mean nothing you do really has any impact on the world map, imagine if in WoW, as the Horde you could raise an army of people and go capture Stormwind and turn it into a Horde base or something similar)
That last one really sums it up, I would expect MMORPGs to be in a rich dynamic world but they're all stale and nothing changes until the next expansion pack comes out and some ancient evil faggot appears and is like Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, imma fuck your world up and shit story telling ensues.
There's probably more but this is what I could think of the top of my head

Actually most ff14 seem to be normal adults with kids& a live - they are casual players and the game caters to that. Weebs exist but it's not worse than the erp people in wow's goldshire. You never see them unless you search for them.

>Its 2019 and the MMORPG scene is so shit that you're forced to go back to Ultima Online
I want to fucking die

That last one is a valid complaint but how the fuck would that even work without making most players frustrated or single handedly destroying your game's world? Hell, even programming it sounds impossible as you'd have to make it massive to be worth it
>You can interact with some NPC and unchain multiple events that unchain multiple events
It's just not possible

greatly being a keyword.

wrong post lel

I want to flirt with older women in the game. Which game should I play?

The way that ARK:Survival Evolved works in terms of player impact on the world is pretty neat. Like hundreds of players work together to build and destroy shit or beat the raid boss type encounters. The official servers are basically controlled by a few large factions. Problem is that to succeed in the game you either need to be friends or the bitch of one of these large groups. The grind is also 1000% harder than WoW, it's a no-lifers paradise.

SL, but that's only if your criteria is women.

How much is it? Is it easy on beginners? I've always wanted to play an MMO but after I blew $100 on WOW ($60 for the game + game card) back in 2004 and hated it I've been weary.

Like it or not but the future of the genre is tilting towards mobile MMORPGs
Enjoy

Really any fantasy mmo game will do. Just do group shit with discord. Haven't seen as many in eve but wow/ff14/.. all fantasy mmos had them.

WoW was never good.

same game but a different coat of paint over it
it is free to level 30, but a lot of people will tell you that it doesn't get good til max level

The 'go outside and go to a bar or something' game

Maplestory 2 is fun if you don't take it seriously.

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Then there is just no hope

Microtransations and the cunt whales who sustain the practice.

Entry is free up to lvl 30 but as you know any start of a mmo sucks balls at the start cause you start with 3 buttons and need to work to your 3 hotbars full. It can give you an idea of questing and game design though. If you care about speedily testing a class look into "palace of the dead". It lets you trial a class pretty quick at to level.

As for the current price i just bought a key for ~$20 at ebay. Thats a complete package key for base+2addons. Next addon releasing in 2 months is separate no idea how expensive that will be though but i also don't care because the content i got is already probably gonna take longer than these 2 months since i won't nolive just to be quick enough.

maplestory 2 is F tier heavily instanced garbage

I love the skin creation aspect. Spend more time designing skins than playing. But it's cool to see people run around with your designs. Sitting currently at 27k merets from my sales despite spending a lot.

How would you fix them? MMO games are inherently flawed.

That's shit here because I only find there old drunk men, also there is a reason why I want to do it online you know.

Bad idea, you dont realize how ugly and unkempt mmo women are your're better off chasing some young woman instead. Really really don't fool yourself the middle aged women that play MMO's are not attractive.

Pretty sure palace of the dead works only half. The problem is at 30 you can to a job quest that ascends your class and doubles the skills you can get. While palace of the dead lets you trial a lvl 50 character quickly it won't automatically give you the job ascension in the trial which means you get only half the skills until you reach 30 and do the job quest either way.

Overall the most efficient way to see class design is imo to look at a youtube video.

>paying for a licence to grind
yeah I'm thinking its a shitty game

I just want an SL on a non-shit engine

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cause you took it too seriously

>Want to get into MMOs so I tried out FF XIV
>Filled with high level people who know every raid, so I can't discover things on my own
>Meta builds and shit, no creativity
>So much grind
>Not very engaging combat, at least the bit I played
>People didn't seem to talk to me, hard to say if it was the games fault or me being shy
>Having to run around and hand in quests and get new ones felt tedious
>Good music
>It's comfy to be in this world
>One character can do all roles
Are MMOs just not for me?

MMOs are garbo GARBO

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Archeage had the formula for sandbox MMOs down perfectly but was destroyed by mismanagement and unfortunately it can never be revived

archeage is in the best place its ever been rn give it another chance.

Much like your post.

They were for close to a decade after WoW's release. Problem is that either they directly copied what WoW did, and thus gave players no reason to leave it, and/or they pressed the panic button because they didn't hit ten million subs the second the doors open.

For a while, a fair amount of devs had some misunderstanding that MMORPGs were some kind of goldmine because of WoW's success for the first three game states, but many of them failed to realize how much time and money has to go into an MMO period, never mind innovate in a way to grab an audience.

Even now, there are a fair amount of MMOs out there that do have some unique ideas that break away from the WoW formula somewhat, but none of them have the level of success WoW had back in the day. Most devs have understood by now that MMOs just aren't worth the excessive time and money to work with. WoW hit at just the right time with just the right strategy, but the bubble it created and solely dominated burst nearly a decade ago.

What an insightful and interesting post! What kind of video games do you like?

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No I highly doubt that it’s as good as it was during the launch period.

It wasn't even wow itself. It was the other blizzard games before wow acting as the best marketing they could have for the game. Blizz had a 10/10 reputation at wow's release. That's a massive advantage all other mmo devs don't have. There were even after wow some very unique mmo's but if they can't reach their audience they can't survive.

I really wish this game was so pay to win and lacking content right now
the combat is really fun, artstyle is really nice, UI works pretty well with a controller, there's a lot of good
but it's all held back by the bad.

still an enjoyable 20 hours I've put in but I don't know if I'll stick around. hard to justify even still playing for pvp when 99% of matches are just me trying to have fun with the other 3 only using bows ever

>artstyle is really nice
your brain on an*me

my dick on your mom you mean and fuck your dog too

Fuck off normalfag

looks like i struck a nerve

>When will this end?
It's too late
There won't be any decent MMORPGs for a decade atleast now, if ever again
Lootboxes/gatchas, microtransaction and other cancer shifted the genre towards the most cancerous platform ever: Mobile
The few MMORPGs still comming on PC are either western vaporware that will never be released or plain eternal cheap early access scams and from the other side of the planet you get gook MMO#1323535664 who is an 1:1 clone of gook MMO#13235324 or #32455325 or china stolen assets collages

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It's not pay to win but it lacks all sorts of content, all you can really do is grind out for cosmetics. Game is riddled by VPN users and Br's that lag the matches.

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I don't know. I want to say hardcore high skill games don't survive in the current market, but then why is Runescape so popular still? Isn't it hardcore? Or has it always been a very easy and casual game? The PvP in BDO for instance is insanely easy and low skill ceiling for a PvP only game, and the PvE in XIV is one of the easiest I know. I guess it's the social aspect. If you get a few hundred hilarious autists in your community, it will become something of legend. BDO and XIV simply don't have worthwhile communities. It's just cliques for the sake of not being lonely online rather than talking about the game and exploring and stuff.

>gook MMO#1323535664 who is an 1:1 clone of gook MMO#13235324 or #32455325
This so much
It's like they are incapable of make anything different or even trying and then these shit MMOs just end up becomming shoverlware after 1 week in Korea because even gooks realize "I played the same exact game last week"
Now and then they get something right though, Lost Ark looks fun atleast

What game is this?

>Hardcore high skill games
>MMO
?????????????????

kurtzpel

Kurtz Pel
It's trash

Kurtzpel

Yes believe it or not they used to be hardcore. Video games didn't suddenly first exist when XIV came out.

Looks like Kurtzpel

MMOs will probably see a resurgence when VR becomes bigger. Until then there's that Astellia Online coming out some time in summer

Never said that faggot, but MMOs aren't skill based. The worst Cave game is infinitely more skill based

Now they're not anymore, yeah.

normies and zoomers are why
companies need to make money and grinding doesn't appeal to the market

but we're getting classic wow at least

Camelot Unchained will save the genre.

>Astellia Online
Nice Bless clone who also was clone of something else
There is also A:ir, still looks like shit

>Astellia Online
>watch video
>game starts with a cutscene
into the trash it goes

2 things
>devs keep releasing the same kind of content
>players bitch that it has gotten old and stale

>devs release this super different content
>players bitch about how the game has lost it's soul
Players are bitches.

seriously, what are the good MMOs right now?

I would start playing mmo's seriously again if a decent one was released. All of them suck nowadays though and have some glaring issue that makes it not worth it. Takes forever for mmos to get released too only to be disappointed again and wait years for another release. FF14 was alright but I fell behind after taking a pretty long break after Heavensward. Tried to do content that I missed but the q times took forever and I just lost interest.

This might be the """"best"""" comming soon
youtube.com/watch?v=otYC0ueWA6M (TERA devs, so not totally literally who atleast)
Also Lost Ark always from korea, or if you like Kikestarter shit there is Ashes of Creation
Crownfall made some noise around itself but it's simply just never going to be released, the people behind it might just drop the project any day at this point or pull out a Scam Citizen

Why is every MMO high fantasy garbage? Except that one obviously, but it's for nerds.

literally none, that's the point. you simply can't sink every single day into an MMO anymore, you can't think "fuck I can't wait for work/school to end so I can go play"
Mordhau is actually the only game in a long time to make me feel like that

You've said it yourself. If it's not for nerds it's for normies. And high fantasy is the normiest fiction genre right now.

>unreal engine 3
please why cant we just use unreal engine 4 for new mmos

Looks like Aion.

>korean
into the trash it goes

Screw you, before wow we had mmo that plays like mmo, even maplestory was good until wow ruin the whole market

>pet system is exactly like BDOs
Imagine the microtransactions

Koreans must really love it
Every Korean MMO looks like X and every Korean MMO straight take Y from another korean MMO and makes an 1:1 port

come to albion online i will fuck your shit up and take your gear

I unironically liked Aion until NCsoft destroyed it.

I dunno, i don't get it either
How old is UE3 now?

UO

hey, it's free

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albion is ass. boring combat. grinding takes too long. no rewarding endgame to grind towards anyway.

sad

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>TERA devs
>the furry races have no playable female option
Really?

B2P with a $1-2 max monthly fee to play.

It is also 7 years old and that is showing. Add on all the broken promises by Anet and you have the typical dime a dozen fantasy MMORPG.

actually based, what drives people away from the subscription based model is that paying 15 dollars a month to play a game just seems insane.

>its been 40 years since WoW first released.
Damn nigga.

who wants to interact with people anymore man, we just want to beat the fuck out of them and shit talk them, so we play battle royales

also its hard to sell a game that requires you to think to little kids, which is the target audience of most developers now

>roleplaying
see and because of f4gs like YOU we cant have nice things

The economic model is, IMO, the best. F2P vanilla with restrictions, then b2p xpacs with cosmetic cash shop.

I bought the game at launch. It was promised that there would be no power creep. Then, later, expansions came out, and they gifted the base game to new players while their loyal customers were forced to buy expansions because of new, better stuff. Sound business to anally fuck your your supporters. I am glad the game is dying.

The magic is over niggers. You got older and games got shittier. Even if they released a god tier MMO tomorrow you wouldn't enjoy it as much as you did when you were younger. I can barely put in 3 hours into vidya anymore before I get bored and want to do literally anything else. All the other complaints in this thread just add to it being a dead genre.

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Did they fire that shitty story writer who had a hard-on for her pet npcs?
Is there a point to endgame now?

It had some good ideas, but above points made me leave the game.

I guess WoW is the best for this, but not for some inherent quality, but rather due to the fact that the communities are still there.

I don’t consider expansions to be powercreep in the sense of grinding, so I don’t really see your point. Loyal customers want more to do, and would buy the expansions anyway so how are they «forced»?

There are a multitude of reasons. Cost, competition, design, the prevalence of other online multiplayer games...

>western mmo players are very willing to throw money at a good mmorpg
They're willing to throw tons of money on literal trash they are the problem.

MMOs have been broken down into smaller core components. People who just wanted to grind? They have a plethora of options to them: PoE, Warframe or ASSFAGGOTS for example. The people who just used them as chatrooms? There's Discord, Facebook and Twitter for that nowadays. People who wanted the actual RPG story because god knows there weren't many singleplayer RPGs (or rather being forcibly turned into MMORPGs) have slightly more singleplayer RPGs or event-oriented gacha.
I've been having a goddamn blast playing City of Heroes again because they don't make 'em like that anymore. That said it sort of annoys me fags would rather sit in AE grinding out 50s rather than play the rest of the game, but that was true near the end of CoX's commercial operations as well. Hey if that makes 'em happy who am I to tell them to not play AE? Main problem being they don't know how the fuck to play any of the rest of the game and a lot of old school common sense is unknown to zoomers

>I can barely put in 3 hours into vidya anymore before I get bored and want to do literally anything else
I'm 19 and it's the same for me. I don't think it has anything to do with age, it's just games nowadays are garbage

woah

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nothing beats the comfy mmo feel. would you rather have your favorite part of a burger, say the patty, isolated and given to you or have the whole burger?

Woah! Didn't realize WoW is already 40+ years old!

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This is accurate, a lot of early games which got away with shit that would never fly in 2019 were successful only because people were forced to play together due to there being no other options. Classic WoW is an example.
I still think there should be a market for some kind of combined experience though, using the advancements in gameplay which have been made by those smaller component games. If only developers could take proper inspiration from the whole market instead of just looking at which monetization model has sold the most hats.

HE ACTUALLY SAID WOMEN RIGHT? DUMB NIGGER

>ESO
>good

ESO has the shittiest class system I have ever seen

There would be no mainstream interest in Everquest or Asheron's Call in (current year) because those games simply have no immediate appeal to new players compared to alternative entertainment options. MMOs aren't competing with other MMOs, they're competing with every other possible activity people could invest their time into.

You should play some Fromsoft games. Expanding the online components of a Souls game might be a good way to approach the MMO idea.

The problem is they're trying to compete by being the same as all the other activities people can spend time on instead of what used to make mmos unique. Mmo is a genre where the community is entirely able to exist inside the game instead of solely outside it. No other genre does this; it's unique to mmos. But post-WoW "mmos" isolate the players to the extent that the community is still solely outside the game.

Never. The things you liked about MMOs don't exist anymore and will never exist again.

Which of those mmo is the lewdest?

Guys, what if we removed levels from the player's UI?

In a world of voice chat with discord on a second monitor where everybody is already part of their own little social bubble which can move from game to game, what even is the meaningful distinction between the community being inside or outside of the game?

If anything what we've really lost is the situation where you can be part of a SMALL community, small enough that you can get to know people through chance encounters without explicitly being part of their group, consisting of players who are actually dedicated to a particular game. This doesn't happen any more because any game popular enough for people to be dedicated to it has so many players that people dissolve into a sea of anonymity. Early MMOs created this situation for the most dedicated players (ie. You when you were a student and could play one game all day) by splitting communities into servers where only a small number of people were at the top level of content.

In (Current Year) you can only find this type of small community at the very top of vertical progression games like BDO, but the goalposts have shifted so much and the developers have become so adept at encouraging autism that this vertical peak involves spending a fortune and grinding 12+ hours a day doing meaningless busywork to stay at the top of a ladder so you can be part of a small community.

Recreating the same circumstances in modern games would require some forced server assignments possibly by an algorithm which takes playing hours into account, to make sure people end up playing with the same 200 or so people day in day out. However this sacrifices the experience of the most casual players who have no intention of forming community bonds, since you're now limiting the people they can randomly group with and possibly excluding them from group content. In 200x not being able to play with a random group whenever you like with zero waiting time was tolerated because there were no other option. That's now a hard sell.

will you erp with me if i play it?

I just want an MMO where they don't shove quests and story down my throat and don't feature channels and instances

Why did a genre based around you spending as much time in menial shit as possible “fail” bros!!!?!??!?!

>don't feature channels and instances
You want an MMO which is good enough and successful enough to be the new hotness but which for some reason has so few players that there's no need to split them across channels and all 5 million of them can just sit on the bank roof.

Project Gorgon

This is why I love Yea Forums
It's 99% bullshit but sometimes, just sometimes, good analysis on games

streaming. mmorpgs don't make for good streams

this is why sharding suckz my nuts change my mind

Step one is to remove the map, quest markers and trackers. How are you going to get players to look at and explore your unknown world if you give them massive incentives to stare at an arrow on their mini-map and run in one direction to press F and make some numbers bigger?

Seconding this. Even though it's maximum clunk it's the only MMO out there that recaptures charm of discovery. But then you get done with 3 starting well-made zones and get to the later shallower ones

Has anyone played Outward? It's not really an MMO but I'm wondering if it scratches an itch. Just got done with Sekiro and was disappointed by the lack of RPG elements.

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All new MMOs seem to have this need to make the player into some kind of hero that saves the world from ancient evil ten times over while everything else, like crafting and other life skills, is poorly developed and lackluster. Also everything seems to be instanced with LFG tools that destroy the sense of belonging and scale of the world.