MMORPGs

VR is the only chance of rebooting the MMORPG genre.
The emphasis will be on immersing oneself in another world instead of autistically completing weekly instanced raids and daily quests. The gameplay will be much simpler in comparison, but also more engaging.

Nobody wanted to innovate. Everybody claimed they were innovating but they really weren't. MMO devs throw around buzzwords like,
>"no tanks, no healer no dps!"
>"play the way YOU want"
>"Flexible skill trees for unique builds!"
>"Dynamic story that adjusts to YOUR choices!"
When in practice all western devs did was cut out dedicated tanks and healers completely and every class in every mmo is a dps that can do a little of everything. The stories are always bad and the same generic DnD medieval western europeon fantasy featuring sengoku japan and the last boss is cthulu in a plotline that's basically "hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr zombies"

The universal silent agreement to remove open world pvp was ebin troll.

MMO playerbase is also bad. Wide range of horrible personalities. The worst of humanity. I don't even know how to begin to talk about these people. Many of them have subhuman reflexes and can't react to anything moving on their screen faster than a goldfish.

SJW hugboxes and safespaces. pls no bully.

owo

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Goldfish reflexes are fine.

Cute Parsee, post more.

even the first M is a lie.
Massivly...
yeah sure, 4-8 player dungeons max

sometimes theres 24 player dungeons for a while, before they lag too much and get nerfed to 12 ppl, because somehow we forgot how >10 ppl could be on a single screen at once.

im so disgusted by the whole gaming industry im actually thinking about doing my own game.
with a 9h/day job thats not a fun task though...

Maplestory, Runespace and WoW were the only truly great MMOs. Everyone else tried to copy WoW’s success, and as companies decided to put more and more money into WoW clones only for them to flop, everyone realized that MMOs were not profitable if you are not named WoW. FFXIV is the only exception, because they have a huge company behind them with tons of marketing.

They stayed pretty much the same since 2004, mostly thanks to Everquest and WoW, but MMO players themselves are creatures of habit and hate change. See how many people are hype for Classic?

They also cost too much to make and maintain, if you blow it it hurts you way more than a simple MP or even SP flop.

And people are just no longer willing to invest several hours in the day towards a long-term reward. Notice how shit like Overwatch and BRs blew up, where your only long-term investment rewards are cosmetics. You can jump in any time you want, play for as long as you want, the way you want. Single game loyalty in general has kind of died out, you only see that in boomers who play assfaggots or some other autistic game.

In fact, I think one of the downfalls of modern MMORPGs is that they are just grinding simulators with a social element. Nowadays they don't have any monopoly on online socialization; Fortnite is incredibly popular not just for its gameplay but also as a virtual hangout spot. So MMORPGs can only compete on gameplay, and they inevitably have shitty grindfest gameplay that's focused near-exclusively on combat. How many MMORPGs do you know where playing a non-combatant is viable and fun? And I don't mean a healer, I mean a character whose primary gameplay doesn't involve any combat at all. MMO gameplay seems like it would be great for allowing players to specialize and allowing for engaging non-combat gameplay, but they cost a lot to develop and set-up(especially compared to the new hotness, mobile games), so no suit-wearing executive is going to sign off on such a risk in a world where money reigns supreme and video games exist only as a means to extract money from consumers.

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This an MMO thread now?
Hey, any tips for GW2? I made a Charr Warrior character and have mostly been doing heart quests.
Anything more that I should know?

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>See how many people are hype for Classic?
Mostly retards and people that never played real retail.

>They also cost too much to make and maintain
That's false, servers are cheaper than ever.

>people are just no longer willing to invest several hours in the day towards a long-term reward
That's the only correct part. WoWbabs don't want to play a MMO.

Regnum online is still alive and good, give it a try if you like non-chinkgrind mmo

>Mostly retards
I agree, but doesn't change the fact there's a lot of them ("I want WoW but with/without x/y/z" retards) and they're the audience all those dead WoW clones were made for. Pretty much every WoW clone was made by ex-WoW devs at the top level.

>That's false, servers are cheaper than ever.
No shit, maintaining servers is the easiest part. Actually developing it and supporting it post-launch with quality, regular content updates? Requires manpower, money and in many cases brutal overtime.

It was the only way to socialize with a mass of foreigners for a lot of people back when the internet was in the stone age, the gameplay was always some insectoid shit desu. Only mmo I'd consider playing these days would be some hardcore RP server or something.

MMos before were LEVEL DRIVEN.
Now most/all are ITEM DRIVEN.

I wonder if a concept like DATA DRIVEN could work and shift the way those games can be played...

Currently its just "with what item(s) do i play?" and not "how do i play?"
(With the old classes you at least could vary quite a bit, sometimes even having 100% support classes. That died out so fast it´s a shame...)

Also, its a huge design flaw, that you need to kill an enemy to receive a reward! (Lol @ Tera Healer class, that needs to slaughter thousands of mobs during normal questline)

I'm gonna have to say it died because more games came out catering to same needs an mmorpg gives people without the ridiculous grind, especially now that normies are the primary target for games.

>there's a lot of them ("I want WoW but with/without x/y/z" retards) and they're the audience all those dead WoW clones were made for
These guys are the literal incarnation of "you think you do but you don't". Like "le ebin sandbox with permadeath" MMOs. There is a really loud vocal minority asking for them but, once one is made/released, nobody plays it. Same for Classic WoW, it will be a ghost town after 3-4 months.

>Actually developing it and supporting it post-launch with quality, regular content updates? Requires manpower, money and in many cases brutal overtime
Funny enough the only game that does that right now is Fortnite.

Again, the player's mentality and habits changed and was a paradigm shit. I agree that people don't have patience to play a MMORPG, isn't interested in socializing (new "M"MOs are all about instanced content) and doesn't give a fuck about the RPG part. They just want a co-op grind simulator with daily rewards.

I used to be able to speak very basic French, Spanish and Port-u-goose. Simple things like greetings, small talk, compliments, and what I wanted to do today. I did that just for my internet friends.

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Yes, but not on retail. It's just a solo experience now. Check out Eden private server.

EQ, DAoC, SWG, RO, FFXI you stupid fucking zoomer.

Explore, complete hearts, join a guild do guild missions with them, complete 'Current Events'(Side Stories achievement tab), participate in world boss event when you come across them

When you're lv80 do the dungeons, start Fractals and work on your Agony resistance, farm Silverwastes as much as you can until your get the expansions

Maybe, but they need to take example for MUDs, not from nu-"M"MOs. Also VR could be the revival of online RPGs, but I doubt most people is interested in real and "serious" roleplaying.

Retarded and false.

Real MMORPG connoisseur.

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yes agreed, mmo are dead

now could you please tell these insufferable wow faggots that their "classic" shit isn't going to change that?

Parsee a cute

MMORPG's are never going to be like your animes let it go.

>WoW killed MMORPGs
>SC/WC3 killed RTS
>OW killed hero shooters
really makes you think

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They're always too big and too long with nothing of interest before endgame. I'd rather have a world the size of New York and need 6h to get to max level than slog through an Africa sized zone, going from pig butt quest to pig butt quests. Either give me a reason to play with people as I level or cut the crap and let me have fun with good dungeons.

datamining + skype circle jerks + standardizing these two things killed MMOS.
relevant also the content creators themselves started to straight up suck and get greedy when the business practices changed.
Wildstar is a good example of this. The core devs absolutely put their heart and soul into it - but the higher management? absolute crones and pretty much ass fucked the entire games development.

I don’t know why, but I’m glad it happened.

When did MMOs die? This is big news if true. I bounce between 3 MMOs and this is worrying if they died overnight.

Wildstar was a shitty WoW-clone, cupcake.

I saw a good post about this once and I'm not smart enough to replicate it, but it went something like:

>back in the day when the internet was only starting out the concept of playing with literally hundreds of people at the same time was fucking wild
>people weren't used to hand-holding babby systems yet
>people didn't mind meeting strangers
>but nowadays literally everything has multiplayer attached to it
>there's tons of things like social media, instant messengers, etc. which remove the need for other communication
>people nowadays don't really care to meet strangers anymore and stick to their own circles
>big part of MMOs was exploration, the unknown, having to communicate with others to get things done because you couldnt do them alone
>doesnt work anymore nowadays since everyone is used to datamining, automatic matchmaking, guides, etc.

>This is why, also I notice a lot of people that use to play MMO's for years now play mobages.
Granblue Fantasy is unironically the best MMO on the market right now.

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>muh abstract numbers game

I don't have a clue what you mean by that.

Not a mobage. Or an MMO.

>big part of MMOs was exploration, the unknown, having to communicate with others to get things done because you couldnt do them alone
>doesnt work anymore nowadays since everyone is used to datamining, automatic matchmaking, guides, etc.

Remove all matchmaking and groupfinder tools so people have to talk to form parties and actually have to cross the world to get to their destination again.
Make more content that revolves around group play even in the open world.
Update the world frequently enough that data is regularly out of date and each new visit to a zone is still full of surprises.

I don't know how feasible it is for the last point but I think these three things would return MMOs to their glory days.

Why do Korean MMOs have great gameplay and shit everything else Bros?
youtu.be/fNySSY8HE4U
youtu.be/UBJBBSWWHMM

Not like it's any better in the land of the rising sun.
Just look how quickly this korean game devolved.
tosbase.com/tools/skill-simulator/
to
tos.neet.tv/skill-planner

And they literally said they wanted to give more freedom with builds while they did this. Holy shit.

>everything else

They still have the best character customization as well.

Definitely has validity.
I remember when guild wars added AI henchies that could replace party members.
It ruined the game, no more having to figure out weird parties because that was who was around to help or anything like that. Ruined the social magic.

>Vindictus
Shit nigger people still play that game?

Lol no. Game is deader than retail WoW

>I don't know how feasible it is for the last point
Too expensive for a really niche genre. Yes, real MMORPGs are niche now, a game like that would have "only" some thousands players.

I've never played an MMO, but heard FF XIV was great. Is it?

:(
I remember being fun and ahead of it's time

Do you like WoW?
Do you like Final Fantasy?
It's modern WoW + Final Fantasy.

>but heard FF XIV was great.
Correct.

>Is it?
Nope. Not now. It was though. New expac is looking up but can't say for sure.

>heard FF XIV was great
You mean FFXI? Because it was good.

>is it?
Was.

Never played WoW, I really like FF XII, it's the only one I've played

>EVE online
>Lots of viable careers, even new players can fill a niche
>Interesting player dynamics
>Hardcore PVP
>Best MMO economy I saw
Of course, it has numerous flaws, like boring as hell PVE or high probability to become a corporate drone, but it is the most unique MMO and i rarely hear it discussed.

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Because people who care about traditional MMO's won't care about EVE
People don't just play EVE for the MMO aspect alone, people play it for being a space sim
That's a very specific niche that's not for everyone

>oh boy, I can't wait to play space battle with hundred of players!
>time dilation
Why bother?

>b-but you can gank PvE players!
Great game. Almost as fun as watch paint dry.

They sucked.

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It's like a continuation of good era wow with a classic final fantasy theme (1-6, not 7+).

This is a game for those that like flight simulators and similar. It takes forever to learn and you end up spending most of your time managing economics. Training up to anything takes years irl time.

Homogenisation and caving to faggots that want to see everything without putting the effort in.

Looks fun. What's the catch? What's bad about it?

BAPHO CARD

>not 7+
Bullfucking shit. Every overdesigned armored villain is ripped straight out of later FF games. And all the steampunk shit is straight outta 7.

The catch is that it LOOKS fun. The moves are flashy, but the depth is almost non-existent.

>MMO on the source engine (lol)
>p2w out the ass (have fun having your weapon break bro)
>everything is tiny and instanced

what do I do bros, Kurtzpel was a fucking letdown

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All the magitek is LITERALLY from FF5 bro.
Not saying that I don't agree with the dude replying to, but the "steampunk shit" is not an argument against it.
I mean, FF9 basically had an entire raid tier dedicated to it
>ARK, an FF9 exclusive summon, is A11
>Winged Alexander is the end boss of the tier
>Alexander literally talks about having fought Bahamut in another (timeline? universe?), a direct reference to 9

Why do retards over exaggerate and use words like die incorrectly?

Bummer..

But the genre is ``literally'' ``dead''

Is your first day here?

Well, they probably could not deside what they really want.
Because flight mechanics is pretty dogshit, between "click somewhere to fly here" and "click here to orbit that shit like a school crush".
Cosmos itself is pretty empty, and 90% of the time you`re looking on various lists and zone chat.
I came to Eve to be a turbojew. My best experience was when i allowed myself to take a too good to be true offer bait out of greed, still being caught in a fucking interceptor and being robbed myself.

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Have you never played 5 or 6 m8

Cease this thinking user. The max you could do in your spare time is a shitty pixel game, and it'd take like 10 years

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A majority of MMO:s just lost the special sauce that key to keeping it all together. Somehow, XIV manages to find the sauce again, which makes me believe that the real sauce is just good, functional mechanics and a nice sense of aestethics.

Like, you don't actually want to play those shitty soulless korean garbo games with floaty controls, a setting that completely uninspired and allchat as the only social function.

The first generation MMO:s catered to a specific niche of people who might not actually play MMO:s that much anymore since most MMO:s streamlined themselves too much, killing the social dimension of the game. I'd expect to find these players in VRchat these days.

Second generation MMO:s (WoW being the primary game) were great, but has just become too aged. As mentioned above, a lot of streamlining premiered in these games probably killed a lot of the fun in the games as well.

Third generation was the failure generation. Fourth generation (XIV) is the nostalgia generation, though its hard to pin down what makes them tick.

Nowadays, only the MMO:s who can really deliver an experience manage to sustain themselves. I suspect the fifth generation is one:
>going to have a really solid, honest worldbuilding. This doesn't need to be novel, it just need to be GOOD FANTASY GAMING. The setting doesn't have to be original (in fact, it shouldn't be), but it needs soul.
>Has really solid mechanic. Honestly, the next generation should be on par with dragons dogma, monster hunter, Dark souls etc. in delivering gamefeel.

For instance, if a modernized Dragon's Dogma Online 2 with an international realize and lot of polish could probably do great. It has a nice juicy setting with lots of personality and its fun to play

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>WoW
WoW was always Everquest for literal mouth breathing retards. It was garbage.

slap yourself for even thinking it could have been good after that beta

>pre-WoW MMOs were for people that doesn't like MMOs
>WoW was great

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mmo's killed themselves by being money pits with paywall content not being obtainable, not only that but their main appeal is either to the really rich or the really poor

I think the problem nowdays is that people jump too fast from game to game.

A solid VRMMO to pave the way will sign a new golden era for the genre

Namefag aside this is also true.

No, pre-WoW MMO:s were for people who liked to socialize online. I think what would be todays hardcore socializers find their fix in other games today since modern MMO:s don't deliver on it anymore

Funny that more and more games are like that now

Thats what Blizzard does. Caters to the lowest common denominator, forcing other companies to do the same to retain players

Nothing casualized MMOs as hard as WoW did

If you're not going to use an apostrophe for the " 's" why don't you just write it as "MMOs"
What the fuck is the point of the :

What new technology? The only late advancement we've had is sharding and that doesnt really make sense for an MMO

pre WoW mmos had gameplay that required you to socialize to progress you stupid fucking faggot WoWfetus

Guess is a hint about "I'm not pretending".

...